[16:01]  * slangasek waves
[16:01] <jodh`> o/
[16:02]  * stgraber waves
[16:02] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Dec 19 16:02:16 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:02] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[16:03] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
[16:03] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu)
[16:03] <slangasek> doko stokachu xnox jodh slangasek stgraber barry bdmurray cjwatson
[16:04] <slangasek> doko: you first :)
[16:04] <doko> - configury fixes for a bootstrap build
[16:04] <doko> - openjdk-7 disable hotspot on i386, alignment issue with glibc 2.18.
[16:04] <doko> - port openjdk zero to ppc64el
[16:04] <doko> - update llvm to 3.4, mir b-d's, build mesa with 3.4.
[16:04] <doko> - build fixes for the indicator stack to build update-notifier
[16:04] <doko> - gcc-snapshot update
[16:04] <doko> - and fixing hardening-wrapper
[16:05] <doko> - gdb updated to the trunk
[16:05] <doko>  /done
[16:05] <slangasek> oh, gdb, great :)
[16:05] <xnox> i assume stokachu is still out
[16:06] <slangasek> yes
[16:06] <xnox> * uploaded initial cmake cross-compilation support (positive response
[16:06] <xnox>   and constructive further plans discussions from that)
[16:06] <xnox> * fixed-up some of the cross-compilations issues in packages using
[16:06] <xnox>   cmake (e.g. executing compiled binaries, when cross-compiling)
[16:06] <xnox> * fixed-up broken toolchain-base packages for arm* (due to eglibc 2.17
[16:06] <xnox>   -> 2.18 bump) p*pc* are still to do
[16:06] <xnox> * uploaded changes to android & autopilot to resolve executing
[16:06] <xnox>   autopilot tests under the emulator. At request from evan, tested
[16:06] <slangasek> (and he hasn't designated a surrogate, so)
[16:06] <xnox>   that a single host can execute multiple emulators, still need to
[16:06] <xnox>   check if it can also be done in a VM, without proper graphics card.
[16:06] <xnox> * still to do in the emulator - unlock higher RAM memory, currently
[16:06] <xnox>   capped at 760MB due to memory map issues (kernel panics, segfaults
[16:06] <xnox>   with higher values.)
[16:06] <xnox> * Running autopilot tests documented in this part of the wiki
[16:06] <xnox>   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Emulator#Using_the_emulator
[16:06] <xnox> * merged boost, and split python-pyste to demote gccxml to universe.
[16:06] <xnox> * still to do resolve device name of the "generic", for system-image
[16:06] <xnox>   updates in the emulator
[16:06] <xnox> ..
[16:06] <jodh`> * upstart: cgroup:
[16:06] <jodh`>   - Continued work on cgroup support. Improved the internal
[16:06] <jodh`>     representation of a cgroup (currently updating tests to reflect
[16:06] <jodh`>     this).
[16:06] <jodh`>   - cgmanager discussions with hallyn+stgraber.
[16:07] <jodh`> * misc: short week - out yesterday.
[16:07] <jodh`> ס֙
[16:07] <slangasek> xnox: emulator \o/  but hmm, I guess the question isn't whether we can run them in a VM, but whether they will perform well enough to be worth anything
[16:08] <barry> slangasek: seems like boot (maybe disk access?) is quite slow, but cli performance doesn't seem too bad once it's booted
[16:09] <xnox> slangasek: it's both. using juju / openstack instances is preferred over having a physical bare-metal box contention.
[16:10] <xnox> slangasek: and performance.... cpu emulation is still slow and there is no obvious way to crank up emulated cpu speed, unless we start using generic-x86 builds with accelerated kvm style emulation.
[16:10] <xnox> slangasek: which will take us into the nested kvm bugs, once again ;-)
[16:10] <xnox> jodh`: has nested kvm been resolved at all, in the case of upstart tests?
[16:10] <slangasek> yes, yes, it would
[16:10] <slangasek> xnox: not in the least
[16:11] <slangasek> barry: cli performance is not what we are testing :)
[16:11] <xnox> slangasek: excellent, the more i do the more there is to do.....
[16:11] <slangasek>  * recruiting for the Foundations Team opening
[16:11] <slangasek>  * bootstrapping/porting work
[16:11] <slangasek>  * release engineering for alpha 1
[16:11] <slangasek>  * fix libfreetype-dev dependencies so things using freetype-config don't FTBFS
[16:11] <barry> slangasek: yeah, i know
[16:11] <slangasek> (done)
[16:11] <stgraber> Done:
[16:11] <stgraber>  - CGroup Manager
[16:11] <stgraber>    - Helped with design work.
[16:11] <stgraber>  - LXC
[16:12] <stgraber>    - Release 1.0~beta1 on Tuesday, updated our packaging and uploaded
[16:12] <stgraber>    - Finished implementing the container autostart specification (patched up for review now)
[16:12] <slangasek> specifically: we're exercising autopilot tests, which run the gui
[16:12] <stgraber>    - Finished work on the configure-overview branch and landed upstream.
[16:12] <stgraber>    - Tried to debug and ended up working around an issue with clang-3.4 (reverted to 3.2 for now as it looked like a compiler/parser bug).
[16:12] <stgraber>    - The usual set of code reviews
[16:12] <stgraber>  - Ubuntu touch
[16:12] <stgraber>    - Enabled discard use by default (once initamfs-tools-ubuntu-touch manages to build...)
[16:12] <stgraber>    - Fixed a rather critical bug in the upgrader code (factory reset would also wipe the system)
[16:12] <stgraber>  - Other
[16:12] <stgraber>    - SRU and New reviews
[16:12] <stgraber>    - A couple of merges
[16:12] <stgraber>  - TODO tomorrow: OpenVPN packaging fixups, a couple more minor LXC changes to work better with unpriv containers and maybe some networking work if time allows
[16:12] <stgraber>  - Holidays
[16:12] <stgraber>    - I was off on yesterday
[16:12] <stgraber>    - I'll be working tomorrow, then off till the 2nd
[16:12] <stgraber> (DONE)
[16:12] <barry> system-image: LP: #1256229, LP: #1260712.  started looking at system-image and autopilot on emulator; filed some emulator and u-d-m bugs with issues found - with those fixed, we're probably not too far off from system-image working in emulator.
[16:13] <barry> ubu/deb: genshi 0.7-1 (added py3 support), pytest 2.5.0-1 (blocked on dep), pecan 0.4.2-1 (in progress), debian bug 732038 (singledispatch), twisted-py3 13.2.0-0ubuntu1, alacart 3.10-1-1ubuntu1 (removed b-d and thus main-inclusion on python-support), claws-mail 3.9.3-1ubuntu1, debian bug 714896 (py3 reportbug - in progress).
[16:13] <barry> (done)
[16:14] <bdmurray> bug triage of dpkg already installed and configured bugs
[16:14] <bdmurray> investigation into using apt-cdrom ident information to confirm validity of installation media
[16:14] <bdmurray> uploaded SRUs for usb-creator bug 915626
[16:14] <bdmurray> SRU verification of bug 1250679, bug 1258639
[16:14] <xnox> barry: yeah, IO is horribly, emulated SDCARD speeds. there is even code to emulated / delay it further. i need to make sure it is not delayed. But i think, the IO speed is lightning times faster than the emulated CPU speed, so actually unrealisticly performed IO is emulated for the given CPU, I think =)
[16:14] <bdmurray> sorted out an issue with the release upgrader tarball building
[16:14] <bdmurray> resolved an issue with the creation of demoted.cfg files in the ubuntu-release-upgrader dist-upgrade tarball
[16:14] <bdmurray> uploaded new version of ubuntu-release-upgrader to the saucy proposed queue
[16:14] <bdmurray> tested whoopsie changes for detecting .crash files and writing to them
[16:14] <bdmurray> discussed whoopsie permissions issue with slangasek
[16:14] <bdmurray> tested changes to apport-noui upstart job
[16:14] <bdmurray> wrote some code to make it easier to associate packages to teams
[16:14] <bdmurray> subscribed teams to packages
[16:14] <bdmurray> fixed an issue with team bug notifier
[16:14] <bdmurray> wrote a tool to make reviewing pending SRUs easier
[16:14] <xnox> s/performed/performant/
[16:14] <bdmurray> investigation into retracing issues with daisy and missing oopses
[16:14] <bdmurray> submitted merge proposal requesting an increase to thrift sizes
[16:14] <bdmurray> test and modification of back population for counter for release:src_pkg:src_pkg_version
[16:14] <bdmurray> done
[16:16] <stgraber> doko: if you're interested by what may be a llvm bug when building LXC under clang I can poke you about it afterwards. (It looks to me like it's wrongly reporting unused functions)
[16:16] <doko> stgraber, clang is in universe =)
[16:17] <stgraber> doko: sure and we still use and recommend gcc by default, but I like to have our QA setup build on more than one compiler just to make sure we're not doing anything too gcc-specific in there
[16:18] <doko> stgraber, yes, but ENOTIME
[16:18] <slangasek> and no cjwatson today, so that's all of us
[16:18] <slangasek> any questions?
[16:18] <xnox> slangasek: when is the next meeting?
[16:18] <slangasek> xnox: January!
[16:18] <slangasek> January 8?
[16:18] <stgraber> doko: ok :) For now I've just hardcoded clang-3.2 in our test suite and that's done the trick, hopefully someone who actually cares enough will debug and fix that problem at some point ;)
[16:19] <slangasek> no, January 2
[16:19] <doko> 2015?
[16:19] <doko> stgraber, did you check 3.4?
[16:19] <slangasek> doko: I hope you don't count array indices the way you count years ;)
[16:20] <xnox> slangasek: is there much point in 2nd jan meeting? i guess it will be a rather quick one anyway.
[16:20] <slangasek> xnox: hmmmm
[16:20] <bdmurray> doko: could you have a look at bug 1261604?
[16:20] <slangasek> xnox: good point, we can skip it
[16:20] <xnox> slangasek: endianess is ok, so it's almost the right count =)
[16:20] <slangasek> xnox: let's still do the mumble chat though :)
[16:21] <xnox> ack.
[16:21] <stgraber> doko: yep, 3.2 and 3.3 work, 3.4 doesn't
[16:21] <doko> bdmurray, yes, next year
[16:21] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:21] <slangasek> anything else?  Christmas shopping recommendations?  Eggnog recipes?
[16:22] <barry> slangasek: for all the pythonistas out there: http://www.vat19.com/dvds/26-pound-edible-gummy-python-candy.cfm
[16:22] <slangasek> oh my
[16:23] <jodh`> love that calorie count!
[16:23]  * barry feels his breathing constricted just thinking about it
[16:23] <slangasek> it doesn't list calories per serving?
[16:23] <slangasek> haha, http://images1.vat19.com/party-python/gummy-python-8-feet-long.jpg
[16:23] <xnox> barry: 7 foot, i would have thought a 3.4 foot long variant is needed
[16:24] <barry> xnox: metric
[16:24] <barry> :)
[16:24] <jodh`> slangasek: only per snake :)
[16:24]  * barry wonders how many pig hooves go into something like that
[16:25] <xnox> bloke with a steak knife eating it is hallarious pic!
[16:25] <xnox> "Thankfully, the gigantic gummy Party Python has a shelf life of a year."
[16:26] <barry> they also have the world largest gummy bears
[16:26] <barry> and gummy bears on a stick (everything is better when it's on a stick)
[16:26] <xnox> Question: Don't you think this is a bit absurd for a piece of candy?
[16:26] <xnox> Answer: You must be new to our website. You need to check out this, this, this, this, this, and this. Oh, and this. While we're at it, check out this. It's not candy, but it is absurdly large.
[16:26] <xnox> with "this" all URLs =)
[16:27] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[16:27] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Dec 19 16:27:43 2013 UTC.
[16:27] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-12-19-16.02.moin.txt
[16:27] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-12-19-16.02.html
[16:27] <slangasek> :)
[16:27] <slangasek> happy holidays, everyone :)
[16:27] <barry> oddly enough, i'm still hungry for lunch
[16:27] <barry> thanks!
[16:28] <stgraber> thanks!
[16:28] <jodh`> thanks!
[16:59] <cprofitt> hello all
[17:00] <mhall119> hello
[17:02] <dholbach> hi
[17:04] <mhall119> so, somebody want to get this party started?
[17:05] <dholbach> #startmeeting
[17:05] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Dec 19 17:05:53 2013 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:05] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[17:05] <dholbach> #chair mhall119 cprofitt
[17:05] <meetingology> Current chairs: cprofitt dholbach mhall119
[17:05] <dholbach> hello everybody
[17:06] <dholbach> #topic Check-in with the Developer Membership Board
[17:06] <dholbach> do we have anyone from the DMB here?
[17:07] <dholbach> ScottK, bdrung_, laney, micahg, tumbleweed, stgraber: anyone of you guys around?
[17:07] <mhall119> I emailed them, but it was moderated, and the list owner was the TB, who didn't exist
[17:08] <Laney> I moderated it.
[17:08] <dholbach> hey laney
[17:08] <cprofitt> hello everyone
[17:08] <Laney> hello
[17:08] <dholbach> how are things?
[17:08] <dholbach> how has the last cycle been for the DMB?
[17:08] <Laney> depends how much you like autopilot
[17:09] <Laney> hmm, I think it's been much on the level
[17:09] <Laney> we've had some new people but not been overly busy
[17:09] <Laney> the TB approved the PPU change that we talked about before
[17:09] <dholbach> excellent
[17:09] <dholbach> didn't you have any other changes up your sleeves, like making it easier for Debian developers too?
[17:10] <dholbach> or are we at the "it's as easy as it gets" point already? :)
[17:10] <Laney> we did some of that
[17:10] <Laney> have used it a couple of times already
[17:10] <Laney> probably need some more experience to know where it could be made easier
[17:11] <dholbach> did you get any feedback? or was it straight enough for people who are not in the Ubuntu project too much yet?
[17:12] <Laney> currently you have to have attended a DMB interview once before
[17:12] <Laney> so it's not /that/ simple
[17:12] <Laney> I guess somehow that could be relaxed, but we suck at doing email applications
[17:12] <dholbach> do two DMB interviews or first somebody else's interview? (I'm not sure I understand... :-))
[17:12] <Laney> one
[17:12] <Laney> then you just email to get more stuff
[17:12] <dholbach> ah ok
[17:14] <dholbach> one thing we talked about in the past was that the DAT and DMB work more closely together, but the DAT has gone through a bit of a hard time recently because many of its members got quite busy (me included) - so I wanted to ask: do you feel people who should apply (because they're experienced enough) do it?
[17:15] <Laney> yeah generally people do if they've managed to get that far
[17:15] <dholbach> and I'm just interested in your gut feeling - it's a bit hard to maintain an overview over all people who contribute through the cycles
[17:15] <Laney> probably getting people to that stage is the part that suffers
[17:15] <dholbach> I'll take an action to bring this up with the DAT again
[17:15] <Laney> but we get people coming through like ginggs and mitya57 recently
[17:16] <Laney> and I expect Noskcaj and darkxst soon
[17:16] <dholbach> ... which is excellent :)
[17:17] <dholbach> do you feel there are Debian developers who would apply for upload rights if they knew more about the possibility?
[17:17] <Laney> ummmmmmmmm, that's hard to say
[17:17] <dholbach> like, do you see Debian developers constantly filing sync requests for their packages, etc
[17:18] <Laney> not really, but I think someone would notice and poke them to apply if that happened
[17:18] <Laney> pocock is one in that situation, who we're being bad at processing because it's going over email
[17:18] <mhall119> do you see Debian developers surprised to learn they can apply?
[17:18] <dholbach> laney: is it the roundtrips that take too long?
[17:19] <Laney> it's just something that gets put off
[17:19] <Laney> because there's no fixed time for it
[17:19] <Laney> you know how these things are
[17:20] <dholbach> I mark mails as unread if I didn't reply to them yet...............
[17:20] <dholbach> sorry, probably not the most useful suggestion :)
[17:20] <Laney> haha
[17:20] <mhall119> email still sucks as a TODO list manager
[17:20] <dholbach> still, it feels possible to me to get it done somehow :)
[17:20] <Laney> everyone knows they have to just DO IT but it still doesn't always work
[17:20] <Laney> doing it live on IRC is much better for everyone
[17:21] <Laney> mhall119: not really
[17:21] <dholbach> sure
[17:21] <Laney> but I don't think the fast path processes are very well advertised
[17:21] <dholbach> what the MC did (ages ago) was sort of like a private stand-up meeting where we went through our TODO
[17:21] <dholbach> it sounds to me like something like this would probably just take 5-10 minutes for the DMB
[17:22] <Laney> hmm
[17:22] <Laney> I dunno, we aren't very good at exerting social pressure on each other
[17:22] <dholbach> there must be a way to make it a bit more painful to admit that something still hasn't gotten done :)
[17:22] <Laney> like the PPU team reorganisation has gone on for weeks already
[17:23] <mhall119> does the DMB have regular meetings?
[17:23] <Laney> there's a named person assigned to it, it gets brought up at every meeting as it's on the agenda, yet somehow ...
[17:24] <Laney> sure, every two weeks
[17:24] <Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
[17:24] <mhall119> so it's brought up, and everybody knows who's supposed to do it, but it just doesn't happen?
[17:24] <Laney> pretty much
[17:24] <Laney> how do you deal with that?
[17:24] <mhall119> big stick?
[17:25] <Laney> not sure what stick we have available
[17:25] <mhall119> is there a list right now of people that need to be contacted?
[17:25] <Laney> other than getting them removed from the board
[17:26] <pleia2> some boards have taken to have a secretary who makes sure the administrative stuff is followed through on
[17:26] <pleia2> and the CC uses a trello board so we don't lose track of tasks
[17:26] <Laney> there's just one person
[17:26] <Laney> I really don't think keeping track is the problem
[17:26] <pleia2> fair enough
[17:26] <Laney> It's just lack of urgency
[17:27] <cprofitt> why is there a lack of urgency?
[17:27] <dholbach> cprofitt, I guess it's all busy people
[17:27] <mhall119> Laney: you said there's a named person assigned to every applicant?
[17:27] <Laney> nein, applicants are handled by everyone
[17:27] <Laney> this is for other things
[17:28] <mhall119> so when you say "there's a named person assigned to it", what is the "it"?
[17:28] <Laney> other action items, such as restructuring PPU teams that we have ongoing atm
[17:28] <Laney> previously it was a project to gather descriptions for packagesets
[17:28] <Laney> so that we could more easily extend them
[17:28] <Laney> eventually we dropped that one because it went on so long
[17:29] <mhall119> Laney: so there aren't currently any of these things that need to be taken care of?
[17:29] <Laney> sure there is, I just said one :-)
[17:29] <mhall119> restructing PPU teams?
[17:29] <Laney> and I'm the one who was supposed to start pocock's application but haven't done it yet
[17:30] <Laney> was waiting for some endorsements but it looks like they came in now
[17:30] <mhall119> so maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see a list of these and who's assigned to them
[17:30] <Laney> it was a project we worked on in consultation with the previous CC
[17:30] <mhall119> on the agenda page
[17:31] <Laney> umm, it's listed as an action point on the agenda
[17:31] <Laney> It's true that we should have starting the application there, let me add that
[17:32] <Laney> there we go
[17:33] <cprofitt> Laney: the CC has used Trello to track and assign items... not sure if something like that could help with some of the items
[17:34] <pleia2> cprofitt: mentioned that :)
[17:34] <Laney> Yeah
[17:34] <Laney> It might help in that it breaks down the tasks I guess
[17:34] <dholbach> I think if the DMB uses the Wiki that should work as well - you'll always have to have somebody looking at the list again to see what's still in TODO and DOING :)
[17:35] <Laney> it's only tracked in the agenda, which means that we come back to things every two weeks
[17:35] <Laney> the idea is that people feel shame if they haven't done their work
[17:35] <Laney> doesn't work so well :-(
[17:35] <dholbach> laney: maybe somebody could send a reminder between the two meetings
[17:36] <Laney> yeah maybe
[17:36] <Laney> I'll try that
[17:36] <dholbach> awesome
[17:36] <dholbach> apart from that you feel everything's working out fine?
[17:37] <Laney> I think everything's on the same level as it was last time we had this kind of meeting ...
[17:37] <dholbach> ok :)
[17:37] <dholbach> does anyone else have any more questions for the DMB?
[17:38] <dholbach> laney: anything else you wanted to bring up or the CC could help with?
[17:38] <xnox> dholbach: what do they really want for Christmas?
[17:38] <xnox> =)
[17:38] <dholbach> rainbow unicorns just like everyone else :)
[17:38] <pleia2> I'm good, was nice to see anoither motu approved the other day :)
[17:38] <Laney> moar motus
[17:39] <pleia2> thanks for joining us, Laney
[17:39] <Laney> hey, I remember back in the day there used to be "behind MOTU" interviews, would be nice to have those again
[17:40] <pleia2> yeah
[17:40] <dholbach> Maia and Nigel took it over and even set up a domain for it
[17:40] <dholbach> at least that's how I remember it
[17:41] <dholbach> but yeah, that'd be great to have again for sure
[17:41] <Laney> http://behindthecircle.org/
[17:41] <dholbach> ah yes
[17:41] <pleia2> I can follow up with them
[17:41] <dholbach> <3
[17:41] <Laney> aww, look at bdrung_'s little smiling face
[17:41] <pleia2> #action pleia2 to follow up with behindthecircle.org status
[17:41] <meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to follow up with behindthecircle.org status
[17:42] <Laney> thanks!
[17:42] <dholbach> laney: I have to meet up with him again - I'm sure he's still smiling exactly like this :)
[17:42] <dholbach> all right, thanks a lot laney!
[17:42] <dholbach> #topic Any other business
[17:42] <dholbach> does anyone have any other business to discuss?
[17:43] <dholbach> there's at least nothing on the agenda page
[17:45] <Laney> the list of candidates for the TB - how were they selected? I didn't see any call; was it done in private?
[17:46] <dholbach> laney: I don't know where it was, but wasn't there a call for nominations?
[17:47] <Laney> if there was then I missed it
[17:47] <Laney> was it handed to you guys as a finished list?
[17:47] <pleia2> sabdfl picks them
[17:48] <pleia2> no call for nominations
[17:49] <Laney> I see
[17:49] <dholbach> I found http://www.mail-archive.com/technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com/msg01199.html
[17:50] <dholbach> maybe from there folks mailed Mark
[17:50] <dholbach> but I don't know for sure
[17:50] <dholbach> all right... anything else?
[17:50] <pleia2> I think that's it, thanks dholbach!
[17:51] <dholbach> thanks a bunch everyone!
[17:51] <dholbach> #endmeeting
[17:51] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Dec 19 17:51:13 2013 UTC.
[17:51] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-12-19-17.05.moin.txt
[17:51] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-12-19-17.05.html