[05:16] morning all [06:33] ohi ThatGraemeGuy [06:33] morning :) [06:33] :) [06:56] good mornings [07:19] morning inetpro hoe gaan dit daar [07:27] Morning everyone [07:47] hi bduk1 [08:03] Hi Kilos hou jy ook bietjie vakansie? [09:08] sigh [09:08] Hey Kilos [09:08] aha hi there [09:09] Gotango, did you get the pm message [09:09] Yes i did [09:25] sorry about me popping in and out. this modem times out for some reason [10:02] Gotango, once you have installed ubuntu you dont forget this channel hey. you install xchat and become a regular here [10:08] No way! Kilos , I will always be here no matter what. I always had a love for ubuntu , even though i never used it :) [10:08] good man [10:09] Unless ubuntu dont wanna work on this lappy , i will be without a pc for a while [10:09] you will most likely need some guidance in the beginning and then after you in the swing you can help other noobs [10:09] it will [10:10] you can boot from a cd and run it from there too [10:10] Yep i loaded some pdf's off google , about installing ubuntu 12.04. Seems easy [10:10] also you can install ubuntu alongside windows [10:11] Aah i forgot about that option lol [10:11] then you have both and can choose which one to boot from at startup [10:13] They say its recommended to choose your own partition, but at first i will wana install it alongside windows and check where ubuntu spits out errors [10:14] yeah [10:15] I hope it picks up the drivers for the Gcard and cpu and other hardware. Those software are massive to download [10:15] dont think negative man. it should just work [10:16] even without specific graphics drivers it will still work 2d [10:16] normally only for 3d it needs card specific drivers [10:16] and for bit more speed [10:17] I hope it works as expected :) [10:20] also prepare for data use on upgrading. ubuntu isnt like windows that installs everything. [10:20] you install then upgrade and can be a couple of hundred megs of upgrades [10:21] Huh ? no i dont wana update anything. Just install the software i want. I want all automatic updates disabled [10:23] If ubuntu automatically updates a bunch of worthless stuff without me being able to choose, then i'm gona stick to windows rather [10:25] you cant man [10:25] you can turn of updates but there is lots that needs upgrading after a new install [10:26] every thing as part of the working os gets upgraded. like security features etc [10:27] Such software should come with the OS and i should be able to choose if i wana update a certain program or not [10:28] the cds were too small [10:29] there are things you can uninstall before it gets to upgrading [10:29] like thunderbird and gwibber [10:29] but the stuff you use for work you install later [10:31] I want ubuntu to install like a good little OS and then i wana go myself to the software center and choose the software i want. Things like Rythmbox should be already installed to play media [10:33] yes man you do that but there are upgrades to the basic install [10:33] The first thing i do when installing new software is to disable automatic updates. I hate those things [10:33] dont compare linux to installing windows [10:33] on windows yes, but linux needs them [10:35] I know ubuntu is different than windows, but isnt there a way to add the software to a dvd and install the OS with all the basics in it [10:35] I dont have Gigabytes of data on my isp, else i wouldve downloaded ubuntu by now [10:39] the only way is to make a dvd with remastersys that gives you a copy of a running installation [10:40] anyway get the cd and install it alongside. and see if everything works. then ill make a dvd of my os and send it [10:40] But in the installation pdf tutorial it shows nothing about default software you have to download before ubuntu starts [10:41] they all accept that one is permanently connected with adsl [10:42] okay [10:43] I'm not that impressed with ubuntu anymore, so dissapointed! [10:43] ai! [10:44] olnce you have used a fully upgraded one you will never go back to windows [10:44] once [10:44] I thought they cater for the little guy better than windows do, but sadly not [10:45] Are you sure ? [10:46] its only us mobile data users with min data that suffer [10:47] you will see [10:47] everything is better. if you were online at work or something we wouldnt even be having this discussion [10:47] I got a second hand lappy, with no windows reboot disc. Windows have been running on this lappy for 3 years with no problems. I just want a backup of some kind of OS in case something happens to windows [10:48] yeah , who cares about the little guy ? nobody lol [10:51] Anyway how do you cram a remastersys into a dvd [10:51] you remove everything that makes it over 4g [10:52] but remastersys has also stopped. so from 12.04 there aint that option anymore [10:52] Oh okay [10:54] but even with a remastersys install you upgrade. just not so much [10:54] maybe 20 or 40 meg [10:56] you should've done the downloads and installs before you lost the job [10:56] It takes me around 7 hours to download anything close to 100MB here . So if the upgrade stuff is smaller than that i will be happy [10:56] then it was work internet [10:57] yes it will be with a remastersys dvd [10:57] haha yeah , stupid ass i was :D [10:58] Now i'm in a hole i cant get out lol [10:59] you will man. patience [11:02] Well this windows has been messing for a few weeks. I click on a video and it opens it as a text file lol . No matter how i reset the file association it keeps doing that. So i need a new OS since i dont have a windows reboot disc [11:04] Just confused about this whole upgrade and remastersys thing [11:07] lol [11:07] have you run chkdsk [11:07] man we will get you past all the stuff [11:09] i spent years on 500m data a month [11:09] yeah, i got repair discs , but they dont fix anything. [11:09] eish [11:10] I dont even use that much in a month [11:10] best fix for windows is to boot from a buntu cd and tick install [11:10] defragment disc then i loose programs lol [11:12] lol thats what i am hoping for, until i heard about the upgrade thing and remastersys confuses me more [11:13] its like having windows with everything you have installed put onto a dvd [11:13] all the updates and everything are done [11:15] Thats what i want [11:16] An installation with all the upgrades already on it [11:16] All the important once [11:17] you see! ubuntu comes in kinda service packs as windows calls it [11:17] 12.04 is now 12.04.3 [11:17] so there are a few 100 megs that have been sorted to make them better [11:18] yeah i like service packs , it means all the basic stuff are sorted already and ready to go :) [11:18] so the ideal is to download the latest 12.04 then upgrades are less. but from the original cd there is lots [11:19] So Maia wont have the latest version of 12.04 then , since its a old version thats been laying around there by her [11:20] nope [11:20] but you can still try it [11:20] i just gotta work out how to make a remastersys dvd without my username and password [11:21] I want a newer version though, that may have issues fixed in it that makes it work better on my lappy [11:22] dont see probs till you try it [11:22] You can still change your password [11:22] okay cool [11:23] have to test and see [11:24] its basically a major backup of your system so you can install as is on a new pc or so [11:27] hmm , so i install remastersys the same at boot as the regular installer ? [11:29] yes it is the same install [11:29] oh okay [11:31] you will see, the linux world is mile away from windows [11:31] you need software its already in the repos [11:32] no pay $49 or more every time [11:33] there should be a 12.04.3 iso [11:34] yeah i love opensource software :) [11:34] Hi superfly [11:34] http://ubuntu.mirror.ac.za/ubuntu-cdimage/releases/12.04.3/release/ubuntu-12.04.3-dvd-i386.iso [11:34] hi Gotango [11:35] Having an opensource OS will be the cherry on top :) [11:35] there is superfly he just has data restritions like i used to [11:35] * superfly doesn't know what data restrictions are [11:35] 500m to last a month [11:36] and very bad internet connection [11:39] he is one of the guys that should be on uncapped adsl, but same as here there aint any [11:40] I always thought Ubuntu was an OS for the masses, but kinda dissapointing seeing its only for a prevelaged few [11:41] I dont think Mark Shuttleworth will reach 200 million users any time soon [11:42] with adsl there isnt any probs [11:42] Gotango: I don't think he really cares too much about reaching a goal like that [11:42] ubuntu has even gone onto smartfones [11:44] Its mostly for geeks though, with high end spec pc's and phones. Maybe in 10 years time ubuntu can get close to being anywhere near popular [11:44] Gotango: I'd check my "facts" if I were you [11:44] no man [11:44] Gotango: In other countries they are replacing Windows XP with Ubuntu [11:44] on the same computers [11:45] * superfly needs to go [11:46] I will love to have ubuntu. Its just the quest to get it that spoils my mood [11:46] Gotango, you will see once you try it. [11:46] if you were near a varsity you could download it freee [11:46] It should be availiable without needing to downloading it [11:47] all varsities have what they call freedom toasters where you download and burn to dvd free [11:48] you just take your own dvd with [11:48] I know Kilos, i'm talking about the little farm boy who lives in the karoo, that can go to a nearby town and get ubuntu from a music store [11:49] Yip but thats in Capetown , i dont have the petrol to travel there right now [11:49] ya but that is your prob not marks [11:50] Thats whats missing from ubuntu though. Someone can start such a service here or anywhere in africa [11:51] But yeah its not Marks problem :) [11:51] you can start it once you on your feet again [11:55] I already got an idea, where if someone is looking to get ubuntu on their pc. The webapp detects their pc system info and suggest a version of ubuntu for them to install. Then they enter their details and that version gets sent to them via mail. [11:56] maybe charge R10 or so or not i dont know. But dont think i will do that anyway [11:57] thats an idea [11:58] Its a good idea, hope someone out there will do something like that [11:58] no man peeps dont have time [11:59] you will see its only me that has time to chat [12:00] Guess ubuntu was meant to be this way, slow and steady lol [12:20] Well you do great work here Kilos :) [12:20] i try keep everyone happy [12:21] And thats what is great about you [12:23] ty [12:24] yw [12:24] ive had so much help here since i started with pcs. i knew nothing at all and learned here from the guys [12:26] all i could do was play red alert on xp. and format and reinstall once a month or so [12:26] I'm sure they tought you well, you know alot [12:26] superfly, inetpro and many others spent days here with me [12:26] i knew nothing [12:27] now i can even do data recoveries on crashed drives [12:27] thats cool, they didnt give up on you. You turned out great [12:28] its them that are great [12:28] took an old mechanic and turned him into a geek [12:29] yeah greatness gives birth to greatness :) [12:30] You already have the fixing bug in you though, it just shifted to pc's [12:30] lol [12:30] lol [12:31] yeah i love fixing things other peeps discard [12:32] spoken like a true handyman :) [14:46] afternoon all [15:04] later all [15:51] aw [15:59] hmm... [16:00] hmm? [16:01] * inetpro noticed Kilos having long conversations [16:01] too much to read for me :-) [16:03] hmm... [16:04] hi Kilos, how are you doing? [16:04] very well ty and you? [16:05] no problemos, thanks [16:05] gotta make a remastersys dvd for the tango kid [16:05] he planning to be back? [16:05] but cant do it here there are isos lying around all over [16:06] he was here all day [16:06] he is here now too [16:06] ahh, didn't notice he joined again [16:06] hi Gotango [16:07] gotta try make him an up to date 12.04 so no data needed with upgrading [16:07] looks like you guys are having a bit of fun today [16:07] ya these win peeps think ubuntu is the same windows [16:08] Gotango: what kind of connection do you have to the intertubes? [16:08] install and everything is there [16:08] cellc [16:08] but like gprs speed [16:08] and 500m data must last a month [16:09] well even windows these days has many frequent updates, and it's a real necessity [16:09] been there done that. so i know what its like [16:10] but with a remastersys dvd from here update/upgrade should be under 50m [16:11] i dunno for sure because i always have archives copied [16:12] all software has bugs, and some bugs unfortunately need fixing as soon as they are detected [16:13] yeah but you okes must expain that to him [16:13] my kop is te plat [16:19] Hi inetpro [16:19] Kilos have been a big help , he knows alot about ubuntu :) [16:20] Gotango: sure thing! [16:21] i have never updated this windows 7 though, since i dont surf the net much or download any programs [16:21] he's a big asset in this channel, available most of the time and always willing to help with anything [16:21] well it is all about managing your risk [16:21] yeah his awesome :) [16:22] if you're not connected to the web all the time your risk is much lower [16:22] Ubuntu is very stable by default [16:23] Yeah i know about hacking stuff and what to look out for to be relative safe without building a fortress around me [16:23] but the safest computing device is the one that is switched off and locked away inside a safe [16:23] I like that part about ubuntu aswell [16:23] lol [16:24] lol true [16:24] * Kilos loves ubuntu [16:25] * Gotango wants to love ubuntu :) [16:25] the nice thing about Linux in general is that you don't have to worry too much about the thousands of virusses [16:26] all depends what you need it for [16:28] I just use my pc for web development and chat, the odd searches are restricted to sites i "trust". So i dont worry about viruses [16:30] hmm... [16:30] what kind of web development of I may ask? [16:30] s/of/if/ [16:31] inetpro, am i right in saying the only real threat is being hacked by a clever peeps here [16:31] so firewall is all you need [16:31] and good password [16:31] That's one advantage of Linux - you can't get Windows viruses and rootkits - they just don't work. [16:31] :P [16:31] Kilos: in most cases you don't even need a firewall [16:31] hi Trixar_za [16:31] php, python, javascript , css , html . I'm into mobile apps now so i will stick to that and a bit of web design too [16:31] Hey Kilos [16:32] Well considering the javascript nature of many of the Windows 8 apps, that might be a good market to get into [16:34] Hey Trixar_za , yeah web apps are the future. Hope the speed of javascript gets better though [16:35] I dont care about windows 8 though. Android , IOS, Ubuntu touch, type of OS's are fine for me [16:37] Well, Javascript's speed is dependent on the Js engine the browser is using - amongst other things - like the speed of the connection, the computer and how long it takes to get the script and run it, which is why minimization is so important [16:41] Thats if you load the whole site from a website. I like offline apps that got all the libraries already built in.Much easier to work with the app [16:48] You'd be surprised. There are certain limitations. For example http://trixarian.net/demo/ - It's JavaScript based, but won't run locally without creating a web server for it. [16:55] Sounds like nodejs. My apps are less resource intensive, i like the "simple but rich" style of software design. [17:38] inetpro, [17:39] ideas please [17:39] how do i only remove unneccesary packages from archives [17:40] if i can get the needed ones only to stay then the remastersys dvd will be upgraded properly and have packages in archives too [17:40] apt-get clean? [17:44] like i have 9.1g of saved packages but thats all of them [17:46] hi psychicist [17:49] Kilos: no [17:49] no? [17:49] well,... [17:49] eeeeek [17:50] man apt-get [17:50] like can one copy only installed packages somewhere [17:50] ai! [17:50] clean clears out the local repository of retrieved package files [17:50] sigh [17:50] It removes everything but the lock file from /var/cache/apt/archives/ and /var/cache/apt/archives/partial/ [17:52] look at autoclean [17:52] it only removes package files that can no longer be downloaded, and are largely useless [17:53] always consult the man pages [17:54] ai! [17:54] then i always need you to explain things man [17:54] commands i copy paste somewhere [17:55] Kilos: man pages become easier to read as you learn [17:55] lol you been saying that for years [17:55] don't expect to know everything at once [17:56] and everytime i look at them i get older [17:56] lol [18:02] Kilos: in kubuntu you can also read man pages in your rekonq browser by typing the url as follows: man:/apt-get [18:02] ai! [18:02] man pages are for clever peeps man [18:02] in fact you can just do that in the launcher [18:03] no man, they were written by normal people [18:03] ya with geek heads and training [18:04] training? [18:04] years of working with scripts and stuff [18:04] anyone can get involved in writing man pages [18:05] i can use sudo and apt-get and aptitude to do normal stuff like installs and remove and purge [18:05] this is more involved what i wanna do now [18:05] keep reading those man pages and explore other options [18:06] cant send the man an install cd and then he needs 400m of upgrades [18:07] jy kan bly wees die hael en koue het vrugte uitgeroei anders het ek nou n vrot perske na jou gegooi [18:07] :-) [18:08] ok, ok... sorry oom [18:08] :-) [18:10] I'll be honest, these frequent updates can be very frustrating [18:11] but make no mistake, there's a lot of effort that goes into shipping a stable release [18:11] don't try debian unstable then [18:12] superfly: I remember when Ubuntu was born, if I remember correctly that was one of the first things Mark Shuttleworth tried to address [18:13] one of the hot debates was exactly around shipping a usable release on a single CD [18:16] todays upgrade was only 4 meg [18:16] lekker [18:18] the thing is you can't control Linux developers [18:19] it's one massive world of freedom [18:19] hmm... [18:19] my maverick still works kiff you know [18:20] pity i didnt do a remastersys back then. full install with no data used for upgrades [18:24] inetpro, is that apt-get autoremove a bit like what i need [18:25] or only dependancies [18:25] Kilos: I haven't tried it but if I look at the man page, it looks like what you need [18:26] ok lemme go copy packs to archives then try it [18:26] on other pc of course [18:27] Kilos: remember, some packages get updated repeatedly, each update has a unique package file [18:27] you only need the latest [18:27] ya thats what i want to try save in archives [18:27] I think autoclean will sort that out [18:28] i got everything from first 12.04 update [18:28] no man it also empties everything apart from 500m or so [18:28] do a 'apt-get update' before you clean [18:29] before you autoclean [18:29] Kilos: so maybe 500m is all you need [18:30] oh ya maybe [18:30] me tries that ty sir [18:33] Kilos: obviously it may also delete packages that you installed at some point and forgot to install on your latest installation [18:33] oh ya [18:33] Gotango, you making me gray [18:34] Kilos: Gotango from the US? [18:34] ceres [18:34] he will owe me lotsa fruit drinks after all of this [18:34] gray: US spelling of grey [18:35] i like yellow peach [18:35] no man grey is when you nearly white [18:35] gray is when there is still some colour [18:36] hmm... ok [18:38] dont start googling it im just joking [18:38] gray is the right spelling [18:38] lol Kilos :) [18:38] you dont have to do all this though [18:39] i know i dont, but i also know what its like to batlle [18:39] i'm fine with windows for a while, atleast until i can switch to ubuntu [18:39] and the pleasure one gets out of being helped [18:39] no one is fine with windows [18:40] Aww thats kind man :) [18:40] will most likely take a week or 2 anyway before sis goes to town. she is arriving at airport on sunday from namibia [18:40] Yeah windows gives some minor headaches [18:41] oh nice, hope she enjoyed the holiday [18:43] she actually rested less because she helped her daughter with running guest houses and garage and shop and i dunno what else [18:43] surely someone else close to Ceres is also using Ubuntu already? [18:44] maybe inetpro but how do you find them [18:44] oh library [18:44] Thats great Kilos :) [18:44] Gotango, you got a library near [18:44] Kilos: just talk to superfly, he has many buddies there :-) [18:44] lol [18:45] Nope inetpro i dunno anyone here who got ubuntu [18:45] Gotango: it's less than 2 hours from Cape Town man [18:45] dont libraries let you use their internet connection [18:45] transport costs inetpro [18:46] Yeah the library in town, but their pc's have been down for more then a year [18:46] then offer to fix them man [18:46] but someone can drive to the beautiful valleys for the fun of it [18:46] i can help with that [18:46] some peeps work [18:47] sounds like alot of work for an unemployed electrician lol [18:47] no man go see them and take lappy with and we see what can be done [18:48] never be afraid of work [18:48] Just for a CD, though its kinda silly to go all the way to Capetown for it [18:48] if you can fix it next time theyll call you and you can charge [18:48] anyway I do think Kilos is the right guy to talk to when it comes to using minimal data [18:49] Gotango, go tomorrow to the library and offer to fix their system [18:49] Nope its a bunch of sour old people running that library. They wont even greet anyone [18:50] faint heart never won fair maiden [18:50] i like old peeps [18:50] Gotango: by the way, have you tried using Telkom Mobile in stead of CellC? [18:51] may be cheaper [18:51] you will be surprised at how nice they become when they see you can fix things for them [18:52] Cellc is cheaper for me inetpro, Telkom mobile is about twice the price in data [18:52] no man R149 nfor 3g [18:52] believe me Kilos they are rude as hell [18:52] Gotango: what package are you on? [18:52] ai! [18:53] oh also telkom has a promo [18:53] they wont let anyone who isnt a qualified professional touch their stuff [18:53] if you buy a starter pack you get free 200m data monthly for a year [18:53] R49 [18:53] taht is cheap ^^ [18:53] that* [18:54] 2 off them is 400m data monthly for a year [18:54] I will look into telkom mobile ty inetpro and Kilos :) [18:54] im looking forward to teaching you ubuntu [18:54] hehe [18:54] where is this and that [18:54] If it can wake up my 3g on this usb modem then i will stick with Telkom mobile [18:54] haha [18:55] lol :) [18:55] is it branded? [18:55] ya to cellc hey [18:55] ai! [18:55] more hacking [18:56] Its unlocked sorry Kilos i gave the wrong info yesterday [18:56] ve haf vays und means ya [18:56] aha [18:56] Its a kanguru stick i got from portugal [18:57]