[12:26] <rick_h_> I think hatch sent us his weather. -21C 'feels like -29C (-7/-21 for us normal folks) brrrrrr
[12:26]  * rick_h_ goes to find the office space heater
[12:30] <benji> rick_h_: and I though I was cold at 17F
[12:32] <benji> frankban: while gardening browser tabs I realized I forgot to answer your question about console colors; the 16 "basic" colors that all consoles can do are not standardized and vary quite a bit (those are the ones it looks like we're using for quickstart)
[12:33] <benji> (the non-basic 16 colors in the 256 color xterm extension are standardized)
[12:33] <frankban> benji: ack. They look different in xterm indeed
[12:34] <rick_h_> benji: heh, you've beat our high for the day
[12:34] <benji> rick_h_: :)
[12:34] <rick_h_> benji: on monday they predict a lovely high of 3 for us yay!
[12:34] <benji> heh
[12:36] <rick_h_> I <3 colorama for console colors. Worked well when I used it once, but didn't test it out in a bunch of terminals. 
[12:36] <frankban> rick_h_: "-21C feeling like -29C" sounds like "I am dead but I feel more dead" to me ;-)
[12:37] <frankban> benji: I followed this table: http://excess.org/urwid/docs/manual/displayattributes.html#foreground-and-background-settings . so is this a tradeoff between standardization and support?
[12:39] <benji> frankban: for what we're doing I would stick to the 16 standard colors and just be sure to pick colors that work well together.  I'd be expecially careful about unusual or low-contrast fg/bg combinations as they are the most likely to have issues
[12:40] <frankban> benji: agreed, thank you
[12:43] <rick_h_> frankban: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/colorama/0.2.7 just in case it's useful
[12:44] <frankban> rick_h_: cool thanks
[13:36] <frankban> gary_poster: morning, replied to your great QA comments, and pushed some changes. would you like to take a look? if you can't, no problem
[13:37] <gary_poster> hey frankban, yes, planning to.  Ubuntu's mouse handling fell over for me again so I had to restart, and then I took some time off to switch from xchat to Konversation :-)  will look in just one more minute or two
[13:40] <frankban> gary_poster: great thanks. curious about konversation: is it better?
[13:42] <gary_poster> frankban: the main thing I wanted was the ability to ctrl-z to undo.  I would write a message in xchat and then unintentionally type over some large chunk of it and be unable to get it back.  Konversation gives me ctrl-z undo in the message
[13:43] <frankban> gary_poster: ic
[13:51] <gary_poster> frankban: qa looks great.  replied to rv
[13:52] <frankban> gary_poster: thank you!
[14:05] <bac> rick_h_, benji: quick charmworld QA question review, please.  https://codereview.appspot.com/47490043
[14:05] <benji> bac: on it
[14:07]  * bac just heard gillam explaining the Darth Vader doll we have for our nephew to the housekeeper.  she's never heard of Star Wars.  "Muy feo, muy feo."
 "it's choking me, it's choking me!"
[14:20] <hatch> really which that person would stop hopping on my username
[14:20] <hatch> wish*
[14:24] <frankban> guihelp: anyone available for a quick review + QA of https://codereview.appspot.com/47350044 (quickstart tab navigation in forms)? thank you
[14:24] <bac> frankban: sure
[14:24] <frankban> bac: thanks
[14:24] <hatch> rick_h_ lol even on my monitor your screenshot is huge haha
[14:25] <hatch> you must keep that thing 2" from your nose ;)
[14:33] <bac> frankban: doing QA, while editing an environment, i cannot use tab / shift-tab to move between the action "buttons" save/cancel/restore.  i can move between them with arrow keys.  is that expected?
[14:42] <frankban> bac: yes, that's the only downside of that implementation
[14:43] <bac> frankban: ok
[14:44] <bac> frankban: done
[14:44] <frankban> bac: thanks
[14:55] <frankban> gary_poster: updated the quickstart lane so that the release blockers are hight priority
[14:57] <gary_poster> perfect thanks frankban
[14:59] <benji> git is too much gun for what I want to do with VC
[15:04] <bac> benji: any progress on the review of my super complicated branch?
[15:05] <benji> bac: now that I decided to delete my gui checkout and rebuild it so git would stop doing things I don't understand... yes!
[15:06] <bac> benji: ever forced to use ClearCase?  now *that* was an intrusive vcs.
[15:06] <bac> "don't mind me while i take over your file system..."
[15:06] <benji> heh, nope I've avoided that one
[15:45] <benji> bac: I can't get the new QA questions to show up.  I'm just getting the "Work Needed Link" question and when I run "bin/migrations upgrade" I get "charmworld.migrations.migrate.MissingExodusIndex: Exodus index "charms_pending_019" does not exist."
[15:45] <rick_h_> benji: that's the bug I filed that you can't do an upgrade from a clean db currently
[15:46] <bac> benji: i had to hack it by removing the current version and running
[15:46] <bac> bin/migrations prepare-upgrade -i
[15:46] <bac> then bin/migrations upgrade
[15:47] <bac> benji: specifically, 'mongo juju' and 'db.migration_version.remove()'
[15:47] <bac> i should've added a note
[15:48] <bac> it would be nice if you could do 'prepare-upgrade -i --force' to prevent the short-circuit if the db is already versioned
[15:50] <gary_poster> jujugui call in 10
[15:57] <benji> bac: looks good, QA is good
[15:57] <bac> benji: thanks
[15:59] <Makyo> jujugui call in 1
[15:59] <gary_poster> jujugui call in 1
[15:59] <gary_poster> thank you :-)
[15:59] <Makyo> :)
[16:00] <bac> benji: could you use the magic four letters in the review so it'll turn green?
[16:00] <Makyo> jujugui? :(
[16:00] <benji> bac: oh, sure
[16:01] <Makyo> Wrong room.
[17:03] <hatch> hey rick_h_ how did you bold that text in the chat?
[17:03] <rick_h_> *bold*
[17:03] <hatch> oh haha
[17:04] <rick_h_> gary_poster: I also marked high the card for the charm change for git branches as the second requirement to close up CI shop
[17:04] <rick_h_> gary_poster: fyi, missed that in the quick glance at the call
[17:04] <gary_poster> rick_h_: agreed, thank you
[18:05] <rick_h_> jujugui I'm pm'd everyone their jenkins password, username is irc nick per the call. Please test it out and let me know if you hit any issues. 
[18:05] <rick_h_> and feel free to change/etc once you login
[18:05] <rick_h_> please let me know if you mess with the job configs as we don't have the backups yet :)
[18:22]  * hatch couldn't figure out why his juju testing box wouldn't let him ssh into it
[18:22]  * hatch realized it would help if it was powered on
[18:22] <hatch> *facepalm*
[18:22] <rick_h_> "did you turn it off and on again?"
[18:22] <hatch> I clearly forgot the second part of that 
[18:22] <hatch> haha
[18:25] <hatch> oo new juju agent state
[18:25] <hatch> 'down'
[18:26] <hatch> 1.17 has some definite updates
[18:40] <rick_h_> bac: up for a doc review? I need someone with good engrish and that might bring up good questions. Feel free to punt and I'll ask around. https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/44/
[18:43] <bac> rick_h_: sure, i engrish good
[18:44] <bac> rick_h_: and i really need to read these docs!
[18:44] <hatch> anyone else having issues hitting the YUI cdn?
[18:45] <rick_h_> hatch: not here, seed file from cdn works peachy
[18:45] <rick_h_> http://yui.yahooapis.com/3.14.1/build/yui/yui-min.js
[18:45] <hatch> well poop
[18:45] <hatch> internets must be broken here
[18:46] <rick_h_> hatch: too cold for a cdn to work out there
[18:46] <rick_h_> :P
[18:46] <hatch> actually my vm has no interent at all
[18:46] <hatch> *ohsigh*
[18:46] <rick_h_> that would seem problematic 
[18:47] <hatch> that it does
[18:47] <hatch> I really wish I could just run Ubuntu on metal on this thing
[18:47] <hatch> here's hoping for 14.10 :)
[18:47] <rick_h_> I'm not even going to go there
[18:47] <hatch> lol
[18:47] <rick_h_> hatch: try it out, running 14.04 here :)
[18:47] <hatch>  14.04 apparently still doesn't have high dpi support
[18:48] <hatch> oh wait
[18:48] <hatch> you're using a high dpi screen
[18:48] <hatch> is it blurry?
[18:48] <rick_h_> desktop is at least, thought I've not gotten my local juju up and running again yet
[18:48] <rick_h_> :) no, but I'm special
[18:48] <hatch> haha are you running any specialness to get it to not be blurry?
[18:48] <rick_h_> it's very nice and clea, no type hinting, antialiasing
[18:49] <rick_h_> I run a tiling window manager and the only gui app currently running is chrome :)
[18:49] <hatch> ohh right
[18:49] <rick_h_> just bumpted my fonts in vim and .Xdefaults to 14pt
[18:49] <hatch> you should switch into unity for me
[18:49] <rick_h_> wheeee
[18:49] <rick_h_> hmm, I can do that. sec, let me log out/in. What's blurry?
[18:49] <hatch> 14pt? That must be sacralige to you
[18:49] <rick_h_> the dash and such? or something else?
[18:49] <hatch> fonts, icons, everything
[18:49] <hatch> :)
[18:49] <rick_h_> sec
[18:51] <hatch> """./test-server.sh: line 15: PORT: command not found""" interesting
[18:51] <hatch> I haven't seen that before
[18:53] <rick_h_> hatch: yea, that's my doing. 
[18:53] <rick_h_> hatch: I need to fix that, it 'works' but it's extra output. 
[18:54] <hatch> yeah it's working I just hadn't noticed it before...cool np
[18:54] <rick_h_> hatch: so things are crashy for me, but I think that's my X config hacks to get things working. Blurry...meh. Seems like it's not as nice, but could just be font settings http://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/
[18:54] <rick_h_> hatch: sorry, but cell phone pics handheld is all I could think to do for showing you how it looks
[18:55] <hatch> heh np, maybe I'll give it a go in a VM when i get some free time, 13.10 looks pretty bad in a vm on the 'retina' screen so maybe they tweaked some things in 14.04 to make it nicer
[19:09] <Makyo> Maybe not.
[19:24] <bac> rick_h_: wow, i really hate that individual comments in github are sent out separately.
[19:24] <rick_h_> bac: yea :/
[19:24] <rick_h_> bac: sorry, I wanted to hit each to make sure I got eaach one
[19:24] <rick_h_> I'll hold back on that now that you mention the hate
[19:24] <bac> shocking to see that you've already made most of the changes before i did the review!
[19:25] <rick_h_> bac: yes, that's another thing we've been debating/working through
[19:25] <rick_h_> due to the number of emails I wanted to start so I could possibly land it before EOD
[19:25] <rick_h_> I got greedy
[19:25] <bac> and we thought LP was spammy/chatty
[19:25] <rick_h_> hah
[19:26] <bac> rick_h_: very nice doc, btw.  hope i wasn't too nit-picky.
[19:26] <rick_h_> bac: I appreciate it all. It's why I asked you in particular to look at them
[19:28] <bac> hey hatch i just got followed by a female welder in saskatoon on G+.  she might be one of your neighbors!
[19:31] <rick_h_> bac: so feel a bit more warm/fuzzy on how things work then? 
[19:32] <bac> rick_h_: what do you mean?
[19:32] <rick_h_> bac| rick_h_: and i really need to read these docs!
[19:32] <rick_h_> are there any lingering questions you had hoped to have answered then?
[19:34] <hatch> bac haha oh yeah?
[19:34] <hatch> linky?
[19:34] <bac> rick_h_: nope
[19:35] <rick_h_> bac: ok cool, thanks again for going through all that. 
[19:49] <hatch> hehehe http://xkcd.com/1312/
[19:49] <Makyo> Yay, got it! Can now just vagrant up and work!
[19:51] <Makyo> :T
[20:19] <gary_poster> Yay Makyo :-)
[20:19] <hatch> Makyo that's awesome
[20:20] <hatch> my setup right now is to fire up the vm in parallels and then type 'mountvm && sshvm' into the terminal :) 
[20:23] <gary_poster> bac, floobits definitely alpha/beta, but... try joining garyposter/gui-process?
[20:23] <bac> gary_poster: i haven't gotten my emacs right yet
[20:23] <gary_poster> bac oh ok cool.  lemme know
[20:24] <bac> gary_poster: they suggest you install using thing A but it depends on thing B and then i gave up
[20:24] <bac> gary_poster: and i tried creating an organization but that seems to have failed
[20:24] <gary_poster> bac it worked
[20:24] <gary_poster> the organization did
[20:24] <bac> gary_poster: plus i'm busy setting staging on fire right now
[20:24] <gary_poster> I had another one too
[20:24] <bac> gary_poster: oh did it?  well it didn't make me a member...
[20:25] <gary_poster> oh you go light that thing up then
[20:25] <bac> gary_poster: so maybe you can invite me back to my own group
[20:25] <gary_poster> you are a member
[20:25] <gary_poster> https://floobits.com/org/jujugui/members
[20:26] <gary_poster> bac can you see https://floobits.com/org/jujugui/edit ?
[20:26] <hazmat> guy on the home page almost looks like free from the landscape team
[20:26] <gary_poster> bac alternatively we can use mine https://floobits.com/org/juju-gui/edit
[20:28] <bac> hazmat: the upsidedown guy?
[20:28] <bac> the other guy looks stevea-ish
[20:28] <gary_poster> heh
[20:28] <gary_poster> yeah somewhat to both
[20:28] <bac> and all bjorns look alike
[20:28] <bac> ok, not really
[20:29] <hazmat> bac, https://plus.google.com/100676251616734338806/posts
[20:29] <hatch> very cool https://github.com/omphalos/earhorn demo http://omphalos.github.io/earhorn/index.html#iframe=examples/mouse.html
[20:30] <bac> hazmat: yeah, i know free
[20:31] <hazmat> hmm.. not sure about stevea ref, but the site looks pretty cool
[20:31] <gary_poster> funky hatch
[20:31] <bac> gary_poster: the qa assessment on staging now renders properly in the juju gui.  so charmworld is ready to land once we get past this blasted weekend.
[20:31] <gary_poster> yay bac, thank you
[20:34] <Makyo> Man, xchat keeps stealing focus.
[20:35] <bac> gary_poster: it looks like flowbie really prefers i use emacs24.  :(
[20:36] <gary_poster> bac you are using 23?
[20:36] <bac> gary_poster: yeah
[20:36] <gary_poster> bac, oh.  get with the times, man!  :-)  but that does kind of put a damper on things
[20:36] <bac> gary_poster: installing 24 now
[20:37] <gary_poster> :-) k
[20:37] <hatch> woah we have emacs users?
[20:37] <hatch> how did I not know that!
[20:37] <gary_poster> bah
[20:37] <hatch> I have this on my wall http://xkcd.com/378/ hehe
[20:45] <bac> gary_poster: ok, so i'm using your workspace and editing a file.  now what?
[20:45] <gary_poster> bac, which file?
[20:45] <hatch> write him a poem
[20:45] <hatch> kehehe
[20:45] <bac> browser.js i think
[20:46] <bac> and i'm in a hangout
[20:46] <bac> this pair programming is fun!
[20:46] <gary_poster> lol
[20:46] <bac> i thought it would've invited you to the hangout.  guess i have to do it manually
[20:50] <bac> gary_poster: i got the hangout invites but only on my phone and tablet.  you got an url?
[20:51] <gary_poster> bac https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7acpimgb6rim8k849kop3q0feo
[21:07] <hatch> jujugui looking for a review for https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/45 (no qa, just tests)
[21:08] <Makyo> jujugui someone willing to test vagrant? https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/41
[21:08] <hatch> Makyo sure
[21:08] <hatch> if you review mine :P
[21:08] <Makyo> Thanks
[21:08] <hatch> tradezies
[21:09] <hatch> it'll take me a bit as I don't have VB or Vagrant :)
[21:09] <Makyo> NP, will look at yours
[21:10] <hatch> Makyo oh wait I am getting a CI failure
[21:10] <hatch> checking....
[21:10] <hatch> I'll still do the vagrant test if noone takes it before I finish resolving this
[21:11] <rick_h_> hatch: heading out to get the boy from day care. I'll check in later tonight if there's something to this CI update, but it looks like normal failing tests
[21:11] <hatch> rick_h_ yeah this looks like something in my branch
[21:11] <hatch> odd, I ran the suite before pushing
[21:11] <hatch> oh 
[21:12] <hatch> it fails when not under .only
[21:12] <hatch> w t f
[21:12] <hatch> ╯□）╯︵-┻━┻
[21:16] <hatch> Makyo ok it should be fixed
[21:16] <hatch> now to vagrant
[21:22] <hatch> bac gary_poster hows the pair programming?
[21:25] <gary_poster> hatch worked great
[21:25] <gary_poster> going to encourage team to join
[21:25] <gary_poster> a bit clunky to get started
[21:25] <gary_poster> but after that was good
[21:29] <hatch> awesome
[21:29] <hatch> I cant' wait
[21:30] <hatch> Makyo looks like about 10-15min until the image is done for vagrant
[21:30] <Makyo> hatch, the first time.
[21:31] <Makyo> You can then do vagrant down; don't have to destroy.
[21:31] <hatch> yeah, I was just giving a status update
[21:31] <hatch> haha oh man would it suck if it needed to do that every time
[21:31] <Makyo> My day :T
[21:31] <Makyo> But thankfully, once you have the box image, it's closer to 5min.
[21:31] <hatch> TIL: you can swipe away growl notifications
[21:32] <hatch> Ubuntu does so many things better than OSX
[21:34] <hatch> UbuntuBook Pro
[21:34] <hatch> one day ;)
[21:40] <hatch_> umm
[21:40] <hatch_> wow
[21:40] <hatch_> I guess mac's have a grey screen of death
[21:42] <hatch_> it was probably Makyo's vagrant script fault
[21:56] <hatch> Makyo do you halt or suspend usually?
[21:57] <Makyo> Halt.
[21:58] <Makyo> Suspend if I were going to pack up for the night and suspend my computer.
[21:59] <hatch> it's installing the npm deps right now
[21:59] <hatch> internet is going slow
[21:59] <hatch> but I'm pretty confident that it's all good
[22:01] <Makyo> Yeah, the thing to check for is make test-debug crashing 2/3 of the way through
[22:01] <Makyo> If nothing else, it works for me, so I'll be good on the sprint.
[22:01] <Makyo> Just won't check it in.
[22:02] <hatch> so workflow wise do you do your git flow stuff from inside the vagrant machine or outside of it?
[22:02] <hatch> I'm not familiar with vagrant
[22:03] <hatch> it looks like /vagrant is the same as the source folder
[22:04] <Makyo> Outside.
[22:05] <Makyo> Only using the vagrant for running any  make targets.
[22:05] <Makyo> All editing/git/etc. takes place on the host.
[22:07] <gary_poster> oh, that's nice
[22:07] <hatch> and is it true that the /vagrant is the source folder?
[22:07] <Makyo> Yes, sorry.
[22:08] <hatch> make devel and make test-debug A-OK
[22:08] <Makyo> \o/
[22:09] <rick_h_> hatch: so all is well?
[22:09] <Makyo> Thanks hatch 
[22:09] <hatch> rick_h_ with vagrant or the ci?
[22:09] <hatch> Makyo np
[22:09] <rick_h_> hatch: CI, I want to do a CI victory dance
[22:09] <hatch> oh haha yeah it's all good, the issue was with our test suite, it should have failed when being run locally
[22:10] <hatch> tbh, I don't know how it ran in previous tests lol
[22:10] <rick_h_> hatch: ok coolio, /me does my danced
[22:10] <gary_poster> danced is a daemon?
[22:10] <rick_h_> compile my own vim, man gary_poster REALLY wants to use this tool :P
[22:11] <rick_h_> bah, I'm trying to get back to using the kenisis
[22:11] <hatch> Makyo do you know where the vagrant files are? I just want to see how much HD space it's using
[22:11] <rick_h_> my typing is suffering during the transition back
[22:11] <Makyo> .vagrant
[22:11] <Makyo> Plus wherever it keeps the box templates
[22:11] <Makyo> Which will vary by system.
[22:11] <gary_poster> rick_h_: heh, I wanted to see what the reaction was, actually :-)  If that's a non-starter then there goes the idea
[22:11] <rick_h_> but back to single monitor, ergo keyboard, etc. Hopefully it's all good for me. Like techie vitamins
[22:12] <rick_h_> gary_poster: I didn't look closely beyond the email. If it's useful then cool. I'm not against compiling
[22:12] <hatch> famous last words
[22:12]  * gary_poster actually snorted
[22:12] <rick_h_> gary_poster: but currently can't say I've paired enough to make it worth a ton of work, which I understand this is to help :)
[22:12] <gary_poster> rick_h_: we should be pairing more IMO :-)
[22:12] <gary_poster> tools help
[22:13] <hatch> haha
[22:13] <hatch> yeah I actually enjoy pairing 
[22:13] <rick_h_> gary_poster: understood, will try to peek at it over the weekend perhaps. /me did compile vim once a while ago but been a while
[22:14] <gary_poster> rick_h_: heh, cool.  broadly agree that I don't want us to spend too much time on it
[22:14] <gary_poster> thanks
[22:14] <hatch> rick_h_ you can also step into the modern world and start using sublime
[22:14] <hatch> it has a vim mode :P
[22:14] <hatch> as much as I hate supporting the author it's a darn good product :)
[22:15] <gary_poster> sublime 3's vim mode is supposedly significantly improved AIUI
[22:15] <gary_poster> I think you will take vim out of benji's cold dead hands
[22:16] <hatch> lol
[22:16] <gary_poster> don't know how strongly rick_h_ feels about it comparison
[22:16] <hatch> he doesn't even use a real GUI
[22:16] <hatch> :P
[22:16] <gary_poster> :-)
[22:18] <hatch> Makyo it puts the box images in ~/.vagrant.d and it's ~393M from your install
[22:18] <hatch> so that's pretty reasonable considering the size of my real vm
[22:18] <Makyo> Ah, cool.
[22:18] <Makyo> Yeah, for sure.
[22:23]  * Makyo dogwalk
[22:25] <rick_h_> hatch: vim or die
[22:25] <rick_h_> hatch: nice short summary :)
[22:25] <gary_poster> lol
[22:26] <rick_h_> It took me a lot of pain and years of getting used to it and I can't stand tabs, wasted chrome space, or waiting for my editor. :)
[22:27] <rick_h_> I find the farther back in time I go, the nicer dev gets, so long as it's on a giant pretty high res screen with pretty fonts :)
[22:28] <gary_poster> heh, +1 on pretty fonts.  I couldn't stand emacs when I tried it a few years back because of the font situation.  That was better during my last emacs fling
[22:29] <hatch> :)
[22:29] <rick_h_> yea, after I got good at vim I wanted to give emacs a real try
[22:29] <rick_h_> but lack of TTF had me running on day 2
[22:29] <hatch> lack of TTF?
[22:29] <hatch> and it's a TEXT editor?
[22:29] <hatch> lol
[22:29] <rick_h_> true type font support
[22:29] <rick_h_> :)
[22:30] <hatch> someone is writing an editor in Go
[22:30] <hatch> will be interesting if it gets off the ground
[22:30]  * gary_poster has bad golang attitude
[22:31] <gary_poster> if they get generics maybe I'll be willing to try reducing the grump a bit
[22:31] <hatch> Bleh
[22:31]  * gary_poster running
[22:31] <gary_poster> have a great weekend!
[22:32] <hatch> have a good one!