ochosiknome: i'll spare the ml the +1s for the new members09:49
slickymastermorning all09:59
slickymasterhi ochosi. what's the situation with http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs? is there anything else that needs to be done?10:06
ochosisry, i was travelling/afk until today, so i haven't really had time to look at it10:07
ochosii've forwarded it to eric and nick, received some feedback from eric10:07
ochosiwill try to go through that today10:07
slickymasterthat sounds like a plan10:08
knomeochosi, yes please ;)10:09
slickymasterhi, knome10:10
knomeochosi, the emails said "if there are no objections", not "if everybody agrees" anyway ;)10:10
knomehey slickymaster 10:10
ochosiknome: i know, that's why i never planned to reply, but since ppl started i thought i'd chip my +1 in here10:10
* knome shrugs10:10
knomenice for the proposed members though ;)10:11
Unit193knome: That's how I read it.10:12
knomeslickymaster, i suspect you've read the mailing list?10:12
slickymasterknome: no, not yet knome. my 2014 start has been kind of bumpy10:13
knomeslickymaster, okay.10:13
knomeslickymaster, just so that you know, i've proposed you as a new ~xubuntu-team member.10:13
knomeslickymaster, and you'll be one in a few days...10:13
knomeochosi, hacking session with xubuntu-related things some time next week on weekend?10:14
slickymasterknome: thanks.10:14
knomeochosi, or at least a check-in where we are and what we need10:14
knomeno problem :)10:14
ochosiknome: yeah, we should throw together a wiki page or something10:14
knomewell we should just track the blueprints better ;)10:15
knomeor, make them track the real situation10:15
knomeand fill in with work items10:15
knomebut if you fancy working with the wiki instead... sure10:15
ochosiknome: i mostly want something that eats less of my time than launchpad (given my slow connection, it's really sluggish)10:38
Unit193QA is using Trello.10:43
ochosiyeah, that might be an alternative10:48
knometrello might not be the ideal alt for having to create new accounts and stuff10:52
knomebut we could work on it on a pad or so10:52
knomeultimately the goal means more than the method ;)10:53
ochosislickymaster: http://dpaste.com/1534821/11:19
ochosi(feedback from eric)11:19
ochosislickymaster: sorry, copy-paste fail, full feedback here: http://dpaste.com/1534821/11:20
slickymasterochosi: saw it, we'll have to discuss this with jjfrv8 to address eric's comments11:22
slickymasterochosi: besides the multiple monitor issue, which I'm not able to deal with, I will address his points concerning the Usage page11:23
ochosithanks a lot!11:23
ochosiyeah, i think we can resolve these things together11:24
ochosii'll try to help where i can11:24
ochosi(also do the multi-monitor screenshots if needed)11:24
slickymasterjjfrv8: ^^^11:27
jjfrv8slickymaster, aye11:47
jjfrv8ochosi, I've already got several mulit-monitor screenshots up there but I put in on hold when I found out from Eric that the infobar was missing in our version.11:48
jjfrv8ochosi, I haven't added the screenshots to the docs, but they're in Media Manager ready to go.11:49
jjfrv8I'm not really here yet :)  bbl11:51
brainwashochosi: are you ignoring bug 1264563 ? :P11:53
ubottubug 1264563 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "switch-to-greeter does not set lock hint" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/126456311:53
brainwashsetting the lock hint on a normal switch-to-greeter action would be somewhat bad I think, because the greeter would blank the screen11:56
ochosibrainwash: i actually expected cavalier to do a MR for the patch, the rest is up to robert_ancell as that's in lightdm13:10
ochosior you can also do a MR if you want13:10
ochosii introduced the lock_hint changes due to a bug in lightdm (which was later resolved), i don't really see the downside to using that though if lightdm handles the lock_hint correctly13:12
elfyknome> but if you fancy working with the wiki instead... sure ... ochosi> knome: i mostly want something that eats less of my time than launchpad (given my slow connection, it's really sluggish)13:13
elfythat'll not be the wiki then :p13:13
ochosiwell, at least not the ubuntu wiki :)13:13
elfyif it's xubuntu then it shouldn't be some private thing should it ;)13:14
ochosiwell, not ubuntu-wiki doesn't mean private13:15
ochosialso, the results of the sprint will be fed into the blueprints anyway13:16
elfyprivate probably isn't what I should have said 13:16
ochosiit's just about the tool for the process13:16
elfyanyway - not really all that bothered tbh 13:16
ochosi(and i also don't use online public editors to write patches ;))13:16
elfyI'll not be doing anything with it for obvious reasons13:17
elfyso I'll just wait and see if something turns up in something I read 13:17
ochosithat'll almost certainly happen13:18
ochosiunless we dont get anything done13:19
elfyochosi: to be frank - I'll be looking for it in update manager so I can purge PPAs :D 13:20
knomeyeah, he's just trolling13:21
knomei mean ultimately, even if all real xubuntu development was done in PM's, who cares if it's good? :P13:22
elfyI don't :)13:22
knome(no, i don't really think like that, but there's some wisdom in that)13:22
ochosielfy: i think that might take a while...13:22
ochosiand we'll only be working on a *plan* on how to resolve most of these things, it'll take more time (and other ppl) to resolve them13:22
elfyochosi: well - we have 14 weeks 13:22
ochosii know13:24
elfyI'm afraid that I've become increasingly despondent as the weeks roll by - ignore me 13:25
elfybbl - off to fight the weather again13:25
ochosielfy: don't be, i mean i'm also feeling like that sometimes, but still13:26
brainwashochosi: so this should be fixed in lightdm-gtk-greeter or in lightdm?13:28
ochosibrainwash: as i haven't tested this, does removing the lock_hint-check resolve the whole issue?13:29
brainwashlight-locker tells lightdm to do "switch-to-greeter" when you resume the system from suspend, but this action does not set the lock hint13:30
brainwashonly "lock" does set this hint13:31
ochosiso that's what i've understood so far and why i think it should be fixed in lightdm13:32
ochosicause as you put in the report, switch-to-greeter does lock the session13:32
ochosi(or should)13:32
brainwashok, but this will blank the screen on resume or when a user manually switches to the greeter13:32
brainwashyes, switch-to-greeter does also lock your user session13:33
brainwashis the additional screen blanking a valid problem?13:35
brainwashbecause if you manually switch to the greeter, you might not want the screen to blank13:35
brainwashonly when you lock the session via "lock"13:36
ochosihm, yeah, that's true13:36
ochosisry, brb, lunchtime13:36
brainwashbut not on a user switch for example13:36
jarnoselfy, are you still using this xflock4? http://paste.ubuntu.com/6679259/ I guess it won't run light-locker, if gnome-screensaver is installed. In here you can find an xflock4, that should be better: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3770 15:34
ubottubugzilla.xfce.org bug 3770 in General "xflock4 should check wich screensaver is *running*" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]15:34
jarnoselfy, current lates proposal is http://bug-attachment.xfce.org/attachment.cgi?id=529515:35
ochosibrainwash: i'm back15:45
ochosiso i guess the desired behavior from the greeter is to only blank the screen on time-based locking or on user-activated locking, otherwise (i.e. suspend-locking and user-switch-locking) it shouldn't blank the screen cause the user will want to see the greeter15:46
brainwashochosi: ok, so how can we fix this to work properly?15:48
ochosii havent looked at the code yet, but i'll take a look in a little while15:49
brainwashdoes the proposed patch for the greeter break anything?15:49
slickymasterelfy ping me when you'll have a chance to15:53
ochosibrainwash: well you tell me, i haven't tested it yet :)15:55
brainwashochosi: works for me so far15:57
brainwashso lets merge it :D15:58
ochosii'll try to test it in a little while16:01
ochosistill have some stuff i gotta clean up16:01
slickymasterochosi: ping17:05
ochosislickymaster: pong17:09
slickymasterochosi, do you now if there were any changes made to the default keyboard shortcuts?17:10
ochosiyou mean in xubuntu?17:11
ochosiin trusty?17:11
slickymasterwith today's daily build Super+T isn't opening terminal emulator17:11
slickymasterand yes17:11
slickymasterpresently the default number of shortcuts is way less than what it used to be17:12
ochosii don't know anything about it at least17:12
slickymasterno shortcut for terminal, thunar17:12
ochosiare you in the correct session?17:12
slickymastergood point :)17:12
slickymasterlet me check17:12
ochosiwell the session fix really needs to land asap17:13
ochosimicahg: you around by any chance yet?17:13
slickymasteryes, asap17:14
slickymasterit has this effect17:14
slickymasterwe always landing in a xfce session these days17:14
slickymasterwe're ^^17:15
ochosii'm afraid that many potential uploaders are still away till the 6th or even 7th17:15
slickymasteryeah, but you're right ochosi we really need the session fix to land urgently 17:16
brainwashnothing is urgent :)17:17
ochosithe problem is that everyone has known that before christmas already, but there are no uploaders17:17
ochosiso things are stalling17:17
slickymasterhey, wait a minute17:18
slickymasterpresently, I'm in a xubuntu session and facing the same thing17:18
brainwashand becoming an uploader seems to be quite stressful and takes ages17:18
slickymasterthere are no shortcuts defined by default to either to thunar or to termina17:19
ochosislickymaster: only those two are missing?17:19
slickymasterlet me compare it with my stable trusty box17:19
brainwashslickymaster: you did start the normal xfce session first, so you will have to remove the config stuff in ~/.config17:20
slickymasterochosi: gnumeric, abiword, gmusicbrowser and several others17:20
slickymasteryeah, I'm thinking the same brainwash 17:21
slickymasterI'll do it in a sec17:21
ochosii just checked, xubuntu-default-settings hasn't been altered17:21
ochosiit's still the version from saucy in trusty17:21
slickymasterochosi, brainwash, the stuff in ~/.config was the culprit17:23
ochosiwell i wouldn't have had a better explanation for now...17:24
elfyslickymaster: ping if it's a quick thing17:47
slickymasterelfy, it's about your comment on bug 126452517:48
ubottubug 1264525 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Mousepad testcases probably need refactoring" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/126452517:48
slickymasterit doesn't happens to me when I double click the file17:48
elfyoh yea - I was looking at that last night - must have had a duff thing going on here somewhere17:49
slickymastereven though the initial bud description by the reporter should be addressed17:49
elfyoh hang on - I'm talking about pleia2's pidgin thing17:50
slickymasterI'll do it in the weekend and will propose a merge17:50
elfydo what?17:50
slickymasterrewrite the test17:50
elfyslickymaster: actually do whatever - this is turning into a long thing - I'm not concentrating at all17:51
slickymasterthe reporter is right17:51
slickymasterok, i'll do it17:52
elfyok - back tomorrow at some point 17:53
ochosibrainwash: http://git.io/TaKJFQ17:55
brainwashochosi: subtle addition :)18:01
brainwashthis version should be ok18:02
brainwashuntil someone else starts to complain about it18:02
brainwashochosi: any drafts available for the xfce4-panel default layout and configuration of the new panel plugins?18:06
brainwashand choice of indicators over plugins (e.g. indicator-session or action button panel plugin)18:07
brainwashwhisker-menu offers quite some settings which could be adjusted for Xubuntu18:09
ochosibrainwash: i started with a draft before xmas, but haven't continued with it tbh18:13
ochosii'm not sure about the session-menu tbh, it doesn't work well with what we have and would have to be patched18:14
ochosithe indicator-power is something i'd pick though and simply hide xfce4-powerman's trayicon18:14
brainwashwhat about indicator-power, -bluetooth, -date/time?18:15
ochosihm, nah, datetime also needs patches18:15
ochosibecause it opens the datetime settings of ubuntu iirc18:15
brainwashyea right18:15
ochosiindicator-power has the same issue, but i've already written the patch for it18:15
ochosithere's little that indicator-datetime can do the panel-clock can't18:16
ochosiso from my pov, it'd be: power,sound,messages,application and maybe bluetooth (haven't tested that one yet) by default18:16
ochosii'm currently thinking of a single-panel layout18:17
brainwashok, should I create a report for shimmer-themes to request the button glow effect in the sound menu?18:18
brainwashif you hover over the play button for example18:18
ochosiyeah, i know what you mean18:18
ochosiit's not working in gtk3 only iirc18:19
brainwashit bugs me.. you cannot make the seen unseen >.<18:19
brainwashnot working in gtk3 only?18:20
ochosii think in gtk2 it should work18:20
ochosi(unless they broke something there)18:20
brainwashah, maybe18:20
brainwashbut we don't care about that anymore18:21
brainwashtrusty needs our attention18:21
ochosiyeah, well there's still the fallback option to go with gtk2 indicators for trusty in case things fail18:22
ochosianyway, gotta check the gtk3 indicator code now18:22
ochosiali1234: have you tried gtkparasite in 13.10? (or: with gtk3.8)18:30
sergio-br2the default shortcut to terminal is not Ctrl+Alt+T ?18:33
slickymasterNoskcaj, when you'll get a chance to, ping me on bug 126249218:35
ubottubug 1262492 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "An empty launcher is created instead of a complete launcher in xfce panel" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/126249218:35
slickymasterI'm wondering if it really should be considered a bug instead of user request18:35
slickymastersergio-br2: the default shortcut in Xubuntu is Super+T18:35
slickymastersergio-br2: Ctrl+Alt+T is the default shortcut in Ubuntu18:36
sergio-br2hum, but in ISO is Ctrl+Alt+t, or not?18:36
slickymasterno, still Super+T18:36
Unit193slickymaster: Pretty sure we fixed that in saucy though.18:37
sergio-br2hum, but it's a bit strange, if whisker menu will be the default menu for xfce. Because Super open the whisker menu...18:37
sergio-br2well, if you make the config to it18:38
slickymastersergio-br2: whisker doesn't comes shipped by default18:39
sergio-br2yes, it is what i said before.18:40
ochosiwe haven't settled on a default shortcut if whiskermenu is there by default18:40
ochosicould be something like super+spacxe18:41
slickymastergot to run now, bbl18:41
sergio-br2there is 2 shortcut that works in ubuntu, but not in xubuntu. The shortcut for Calculator and the enable/disable touchpad. I can config this, but i don't know why it does not come as ubuntu18:42
holsteinsergio-br2: they are the same repos, and xubuntu is an official spin, but it doesnt have to be the same as, nor try to emulate, necessarily, ubuntu in any way18:43
sergio-br2yes, but for a noob user, he expects that his shortcut for calculator, for example, works out-of-box.18:45
sergio-br2like others, such touchpad enable/disable, bright up and down, sound level...18:46
holsteinsergio-br2: personally, ive never expected a shortcut to a calculator.. but, those shortcuts are editable18:46
holsteinsergio-br2: you cant ever please everyone...18:46
sergio-br2hum, yeah, it's true18:47
brainwashbut you are talking about the media keys or?19:01
sergio-br2i'm talking about Fn + other keys19:03
brainwashyou could add missing ones if possible and create a patch19:06
sergio-br2i'm searching the files to make the patch19:07
sergio-br2xfce4-settings ?19:07
brainwashxubuntu-default-settings I guess19:07
Unit193I'd presume restoring the old C+A+Esc xkill keybind wouldn't do.19:08
brainwashsergio-br2: bug 116526619:09
ubottubug 1165266 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "missing keyboard shortcuts" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/116526619:09
Unit193So what all pull requests are pending ?19:11
Unit193Didn't blues have two?19:11
brainwashouch.. bug 122763719:12
ubottubug 1227637 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "non existing key specified in override file" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/122763719:12
brainwashsometimes it's really sad that fixes/patches get delayed so much :(19:16
Unit193https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/+activereviews - https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.trusty/+activereviews  And what, other times it's a happy thing? :P19:18
brainwashmost of the time it's simply "whatever" :D19:20
brainwashhowever, people like and use Xubuntu, so this 14.04 LTS release should be an awesome one19:22
brainwashdoes Xfce restore running apps even if this feature is unticked?20:42
brainwashI never used this before, but it really behaves strange.. no wonder so many users complain about it and flood the forums with threads about it20:43
sergio-br2in saucy there was a problem with this, but in trusty it's work right, i think20:48
jarnosbrainwash, are you using it in 13.10?20:56
jarnosBad session memory has been a long time issue with Xfce, so it is good, if it is fixed for the future release.20:58
ochosijarnos: you're also using xubuntu?21:03
jarnosochosi, yes, 13.1021:04
ochosiyeah, i've also seen some session problems in 13.10, but as i've "polluted" my system with tons of components from git, i'm not sure it's not my fault :)21:04
ubottubugzilla.xfce.org bug 10593 in General "Session autosaves on logout even if the option is disabled" [Normal,New]21:05
ochosii see21:09
ochosinot sure i'd call it a long-time issue, 4.10.1 isn't that old yet (in xfce release time)21:09
jarnosochosi, yes, but I have had different kind of problems with it before. It couldn't remember sessions right or something...21:12
jarnosochosi, Then I had to delete xfce session cache from ~/.cache/sessions21:15
jarnosdoing that after logout might help to forget xfce session in 13.10 ;)21:19
jarnosochosi, brainwash sergio-br2 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/1204919/comments/7 So has this behavior changed somehow in trusty? It has the same version of xfce4-session, right?22:30
ubottuUbuntu bug 1204919 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "4.10.1 version affects session autosave so it couldn't be switched off" [Undecided,Confirmed]22:30
knomemicahg-work, micahg: ping me when you're around.22:31
sergio-br2jarnos, if you save some session, and after you choose to not save session, then the last save session will be used by the system22:33
jarnossergio-br2, yes, it is the same in saucy.22:34
ochosihave you checked whether the xfconf variable remains set?22:34
sergio-br2but this option, "Automatically save session on logout", is working well in trusty. If you check this, it saves the session, if you don't check, it will not save the session. But in Saucy there is a problem with this option.22:35
sergio-br2jarnos, so, you think that if you uncheck session save options, the next session could be an empty session?22:38
sergio-br2If you uncheck session save option, it does not necessarily mean that you want to erase the previous saved sessions.22:40
jarnossergio-br2, I don't see the problem in saucy. 22:43
sergio-br2hum, so, it was fixed? A month ago i was with this problem. Don't know.22:44
jarnossergio-br2, many people tend to assume that if you choose "do not save" it means "start next time empty session". I guess it is too hard to find the option to start like that.22:45
jarnossergio-br2, how did it behave then?22:45
sergio-br2"many people tend to assume that if you choose "do not save" it means "start next time empty session"" , yeah, this happened with me, i thought like this hehe :)22:47
sergio-br2i know that you have to erase the previous saved session manually, but i don't know what the better xfce behavior after you choose "do not save"22:52
sergio-br2i tested this in trusty22:52
jarnossergio-br2, it could have another checkbox then : "delete saved session"23:02
sergio-br2but there is this option in Session tab, "Clear saved sessions" button, take a look23:03
jarnossergio-br2, yes there is, but it could be in the logout window, too. I think it would be more intuitive.23:08
sergio-br2hum, yeah, this would be an wish list23:08
jarnossergio-br2, or it could be like "Use saved session on next login"23:10
sergio-br2but there is something like this, try to check "Display chooser on login" option in General tab and do a logout and login, then you will see an window, with the saved session (Default) and a "New session" button.23:14
jarnossergio-br2, good point.23:32
sergio-br2jarnos, if there is no saved session, then there is no window for session choice, even if "Display chooser on login" is checked23:35
sergio-br2*in the login23:36

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