[09:49] <ochosi> knome: i'll spare the ml the +1s for the new members
[09:59] <slickymaster> morning all
[10:04] <ochosi> morning
[10:06] <slickymaster> hi ochosi. what's the situation with http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs? is there anything else that needs to be done?
[10:07] <ochosi> sry, i was travelling/afk until today, so i haven't really had time to look at it
[10:07] <slickymaster> ok
[10:07] <ochosi> i've forwarded it to eric and nick, received some feedback from eric
[10:07] <ochosi> will try to go through that today
[10:08] <slickymaster> that sounds like a plan
[10:09] <knome> ochosi, yes please ;)
[10:10] <slickymaster> hi, knome
[10:10] <knome> ochosi, the emails said "if there are no objections", not "if everybody agrees" anyway ;)
[10:10] <knome> hey slickymaster 
[10:10] <ochosi> knome: i know, that's why i never planned to reply, but since ppl started i thought i'd chip my +1 in here
[10:10]  * knome shrugs
[10:11] <knome> nice for the proposed members though ;)
[10:12] <Unit193> knome: That's how I read it.
[10:12] <knome> slickymaster, i suspect you've read the mailing list?
[10:13] <slickymaster> knome: no, not yet knome. my 2014 start has been kind of bumpy
[10:13] <knome> slickymaster, okay.
[10:13] <knome> slickymaster, just so that you know, i've proposed you as a new ~xubuntu-team member.
[10:13] <knome> slickymaster, and you'll be one in a few days...
[10:14] <knome> ochosi, hacking session with xubuntu-related things some time next week on weekend?
[10:14] <slickymaster> knome: thanks.
[10:14] <knome> ochosi, or at least a check-in where we are and what we need
[10:14] <knome> no problem :)
[10:14] <ochosi> knome: yeah, we should throw together a wiki page or something
[10:14] <ochosi> bbiab
[10:15] <knome> well we should just track the blueprints better ;)
[10:15] <knome> or, make them track the real situation
[10:15] <knome> and fill in with work items
[10:15] <knome> but if you fancy working with the wiki instead... sure
[10:34] <knome> bbiab
[10:38] <ochosi> knome: i mostly want something that eats less of my time than launchpad (given my slow connection, it's really sluggish)
[10:43] <Unit193> QA is using Trello.
[10:48] <ochosi> yeah, that might be an alternative
[10:52] <knome> trello might not be the ideal alt for having to create new accounts and stuff
[10:52] <knome> but we could work on it on a pad or so
[10:53] <knome> ultimately the goal means more than the method ;)
[11:19] <ochosi> slickymaster: http://dpaste.com/1534821/
[11:19] <ochosi> (feedback from eric)
[11:20] <ochosi> slickymaster: sorry, copy-paste fail, full feedback here: http://dpaste.com/1534821/
[11:22] <slickymaster> ochosi: saw it, we'll have to discuss this with jjfrv8 to address eric's comments
[11:23] <slickymaster> ochosi: besides the multiple monitor issue, which I'm not able to deal with, I will address his points concerning the Usage page
[11:23] <ochosi> thanks a lot!
[11:24] <ochosi> yeah, i think we can resolve these things together
[11:24] <ochosi> i'll try to help where i can
[11:24] <ochosi> (also do the multi-monitor screenshots if needed)
[11:27] <slickymaster> jjfrv8: ^^^
[11:47] <jjfrv8> slickymaster, aye
[11:48] <jjfrv8> ochosi, I've already got several mulit-monitor screenshots up there but I put in on hold when I found out from Eric that the infobar was missing in our version.
[11:49] <jjfrv8> ochosi, I haven't added the screenshots to the docs, but they're in Media Manager ready to go.
[11:51] <jjfrv8> I'm not really here yet :)  bbl
[11:53] <brainwash> ochosi: are you ignoring bug 1264563 ? :P
[11:56] <brainwash> setting the lock hint on a normal switch-to-greeter action would be somewhat bad I think, because the greeter would blank the screen
[13:10] <ochosi> brainwash: i actually expected cavalier to do a MR for the patch, the rest is up to robert_ancell as that's in lightdm
[13:10] <ochosi> or you can also do a MR if you want
[13:12] <ochosi> i introduced the lock_hint changes due to a bug in lightdm (which was later resolved), i don't really see the downside to using that though if lightdm handles the lock_hint correctly
[13:13] <elfy> knome> but if you fancy working with the wiki instead... sure ... ochosi> knome: i mostly want something that eats less of my time than launchpad (given my slow connection, it's really sluggish)
[13:13] <elfy> that'll not be the wiki then :p
[13:13] <ochosi> well, at least not the ubuntu wiki :)
[13:13] <elfy> :)
[13:14] <elfy> if it's xubuntu then it shouldn't be some private thing should it ;)
[13:15] <ochosi> well, not ubuntu-wiki doesn't mean private
[13:16] <ochosi> also, the results of the sprint will be fed into the blueprints anyway
[13:16] <elfy> private probably isn't what I should have said 
[13:16] <ochosi> it's just about the tool for the process
[13:16] <elfy> anyway - not really all that bothered tbh 
[13:16] <ochosi> (and i also don't use online public editors to write patches ;))
[13:17] <elfy> I'll not be doing anything with it for obvious reasons
[13:17] <elfy> so I'll just wait and see if something turns up in something I read 
[13:18] <ochosi> that'll almost certainly happen
[13:19] <ochosi> unless we dont get anything done
[13:20] <elfy> ochosi: to be frank - I'll be looking for it in update manager so I can purge PPAs :D 
[13:21] <knome> yeah, he's just trolling
[13:21] <elfy> lol
[13:22] <knome> i mean ultimately, even if all real xubuntu development was done in PM's, who cares if it's good? :P
[13:22] <elfy> I don't :)
[13:22] <knome> (no, i don't really think like that, but there's some wisdom in that)
[13:22] <ochosi> elfy: i think that might take a while...
[13:22] <ochosi> and we'll only be working on a *plan* on how to resolve most of these things, it'll take more time (and other ppl) to resolve them
[13:22] <elfy> ochosi: well - we have 14 weeks 
[13:24] <ochosi> i know
[13:25] <elfy> I'm afraid that I've become increasingly despondent as the weeks roll by - ignore me 
[13:25] <elfy> bbl - off to fight the weather again
[13:26] <ochosi> elfy: don't be, i mean i'm also feeling like that sometimes, but still
[13:28] <brainwash> ochosi: so this should be fixed in lightdm-gtk-greeter or in lightdm?
[13:29] <ochosi> brainwash: as i haven't tested this, does removing the lock_hint-check resolve the whole issue?
[13:30] <brainwash> light-locker tells lightdm to do "switch-to-greeter" when you resume the system from suspend, but this action does not set the lock hint
[13:31] <brainwash> only "lock" does set this hint
[13:31] <ochosi> right
[13:32] <ochosi> so that's what i've understood so far and why i think it should be fixed in lightdm
[13:32] <ochosi> cause as you put in the report, switch-to-greeter does lock the session
[13:32] <ochosi> (or should)
[13:32] <brainwash> ok, but this will blank the screen on resume or when a user manually switches to the greeter
[13:33] <brainwash> yes, switch-to-greeter does also lock your user session
[13:35] <brainwash> is the additional screen blanking a valid problem?
[13:35] <brainwash> because if you manually switch to the greeter, you might not want the screen to blank
[13:36] <brainwash> only when you lock the session via "lock"
[13:36] <ochosi> hm, yeah, that's true
[13:36] <ochosi> sry, brb, lunchtime
[13:36] <brainwash> but not on a user switch for example
[13:36] <brainwash> ok
[15:34] <jarnos> elfy, are you still using this xflock4? http://paste.ubuntu.com/6679259/ I guess it won't run light-locker, if gnome-screensaver is installed. In here you can find an xflock4, that should be better: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3770 
[15:35] <jarnos> elfy, current lates proposal is http://bug-attachment.xfce.org/attachment.cgi?id=5295
[15:45] <ochosi> brainwash: i'm back
[15:46] <ochosi> so i guess the desired behavior from the greeter is to only blank the screen on time-based locking or on user-activated locking, otherwise (i.e. suspend-locking and user-switch-locking) it shouldn't blank the screen cause the user will want to see the greeter
[15:48] <brainwash> ochosi: ok, so how can we fix this to work properly?
[15:49] <ochosi> i havent looked at the code yet, but i'll take a look in a little while
[15:49] <brainwash> does the proposed patch for the greeter break anything?
[15:53] <slickymaster> elfy ping me when you'll have a chance to
[15:55] <ochosi> brainwash: well you tell me, i haven't tested it yet :)
[15:57] <brainwash> ochosi: works for me so far
[15:58] <brainwash> so lets merge it :D
[16:01] <ochosi> i'll try to test it in a little while
[16:01] <ochosi> still have some stuff i gotta clean up
[17:05] <slickymaster> ochosi: ping
[17:09] <ochosi> slickymaster: pong
[17:10] <slickymaster> ochosi, do you now if there were any changes made to the default keyboard shortcuts?
[17:11] <ochosi> you mean in xubuntu?
[17:11] <ochosi> in trusty?
[17:11] <slickymaster> with today's daily build Super+T isn't opening terminal emulator
[17:11] <slickymaster> yes
[17:11] <slickymaster> and yes
[17:12] <ochosi> strange
[17:12] <slickymaster> presently the default number of shortcuts is way less than what it used to be
[17:12] <ochosi> i don't know anything about it at least
[17:12] <slickymaster> no shortcut for terminal, thunar
[17:12] <ochosi> are you in the correct session?
[17:12] <slickymaster> good point :)
[17:12] <slickymaster> let me check
[17:13] <slickymaster> nops
[17:13] <slickymaster> :(
[17:13] <ochosi> hm
[17:13] <ochosi> well the session fix really needs to land asap
[17:13] <ochosi> micahg: you around by any chance yet?
[17:14] <slickymaster> yes, asap
[17:14] <slickymaster> it has this effect
[17:14] <slickymaster> we always landing in a xfce session these days
[17:15] <ochosi> :/
[17:15] <slickymaster> we're ^^
[17:15] <ochosi> i'm afraid that many potential uploaders are still away till the 6th or even 7th
[17:16] <slickymaster> yeah, but you're right ochosi we really need the session fix to land urgently 
[17:17] <brainwash> nothing is urgent :)
[17:17] <ochosi> the problem is that everyone has known that before christmas already, but there are no uploaders
[17:17] <ochosi> so things are stalling
[17:18] <slickymaster> hey, wait a minute
[17:18] <slickymaster> presently, I'm in a xubuntu session and facing the same thing
[17:18] <brainwash> and becoming an uploader seems to be quite stressful and takes ages
[17:19] <slickymaster> there are no shortcuts defined by default to either to thunar or to termina
[17:19] <ochosi> slickymaster: only those two are missing?
[17:19] <slickymaster> let me compare it with my stable trusty box
[17:20] <brainwash> slickymaster: you did start the normal xfce session first, so you will have to remove the config stuff in ~/.config
[17:20] <slickymaster> ochosi: gnumeric, abiword, gmusicbrowser and several others
[17:21] <slickymaster> yeah, I'm thinking the same brainwash 
[17:21] <slickymaster> I'll do it in a sec
[17:21] <ochosi> i just checked, xubuntu-default-settings hasn't been altered
[17:21] <ochosi> it's still the version from saucy in trusty
[17:23] <slickymaster> ochosi, brainwash, the stuff in ~/.config was the culprit
[17:23] <ochosi> ok
[17:24] <ochosi> well i wouldn't have had a better explanation for now...
[17:47] <elfy> slickymaster: ping if it's a quick thing
[17:48] <slickymaster> elfy, it's about your comment on bug 1264525
[17:48] <slickymaster> it doesn't happens to me when I double click the file
[17:49] <elfy> oh yea - I was looking at that last night - must have had a duff thing going on here somewhere
[17:49] <slickymaster> even though the initial bud description by the reporter should be addressed
[17:50] <elfy> oh hang on - I'm talking about pleia2's pidgin thing
[17:50] <slickymaster> I'll do it in the weekend and will propose a merge
[17:50] <elfy> do what?
[17:50] <slickymaster> rewrite the test
[17:51] <elfy> slickymaster: actually do whatever - this is turning into a long thing - I'm not concentrating at all
[17:51] <slickymaster> the reporter is right
[17:51] <elfy> ^^
[17:52] <slickymaster> ok, i'll do it
[17:53] <elfy> ok - back tomorrow at some point 
[17:55] <ochosi> brainwash: http://git.io/TaKJFQ
[18:01] <brainwash> ochosi: subtle addition :)
[18:02] <brainwash> this version should be ok
[18:02] <brainwash> until someone else starts to complain about it
[18:06] <brainwash> ochosi: any drafts available for the xfce4-panel default layout and configuration of the new panel plugins?
[18:07] <brainwash> and choice of indicators over plugins (e.g. indicator-session or action button panel plugin)
[18:09] <brainwash> whisker-menu offers quite some settings which could be adjusted for Xubuntu
[18:13] <ochosi> brainwash: i started with a draft before xmas, but haven't continued with it tbh
[18:14] <ochosi> i'm not sure about the session-menu tbh, it doesn't work well with what we have and would have to be patched
[18:14] <ochosi> the indicator-power is something i'd pick though and simply hide xfce4-powerman's trayicon
[18:15] <brainwash> what about indicator-power, -bluetooth, -date/time?
[18:15] <ochosi> hm, nah, datetime also needs patches
[18:15] <ochosi> because it opens the datetime settings of ubuntu iirc
[18:15] <brainwash> yea right
[18:15] <ochosi> indicator-power has the same issue, but i've already written the patch for it
[18:16] <ochosi> there's little that indicator-datetime can do the panel-clock can't
[18:16] <ochosi> so from my pov, it'd be: power,sound,messages,application and maybe bluetooth (haven't tested that one yet) by default
[18:17] <ochosi> i'm currently thinking of a single-panel layout
[18:18] <brainwash> ok, should I create a report for shimmer-themes to request the button glow effect in the sound menu?
[18:18] <brainwash> if you hover over the play button for example
[18:18] <ochosi> yeah, i know what you mean
[18:19] <ochosi> it's not working in gtk3 only iirc
[18:19] <brainwash> it bugs me.. you cannot make the seen unseen >.<
[18:20] <brainwash> not working in gtk3 only?
[18:20] <ochosi> i think in gtk2 it should work
[18:20] <ochosi> (unless they broke something there)
[18:20] <brainwash> ah, maybe
[18:21] <brainwash> but we don't care about that anymore
[18:21] <brainwash> trusty needs our attention
[18:22] <ochosi> yeah, well there's still the fallback option to go with gtk2 indicators for trusty in case things fail
[18:22] <ochosi> anyway, gotta check the gtk3 indicator code now
[18:30] <ochosi> ali1234: have you tried gtkparasite in 13.10? (or: with gtk3.8)
[18:33] <sergio-br2> the default shortcut to terminal is not Ctrl+Alt+T ?
[18:35] <slickymaster> Noskcaj, when you'll get a chance to, ping me on bug 1262492
[18:35] <slickymaster> I'm wondering if it really should be considered a bug instead of user request
[18:35] <slickymaster> sergio-br2: the default shortcut in Xubuntu is Super+T
[18:36] <slickymaster> sergio-br2: Ctrl+Alt+T is the default shortcut in Ubuntu
[18:36] <sergio-br2> hum, but in ISO is Ctrl+Alt+t, or not?
[18:36] <slickymaster> no, still Super+T
[18:37] <Unit193> slickymaster: Pretty sure we fixed that in saucy though.
[18:37] <sergio-br2> hum, but it's a bit strange, if whisker menu will be the default menu for xfce. Because Super open the whisker menu...
[18:38] <sergio-br2> well, if you make the config to it
[18:39] <slickymaster> sergio-br2: whisker doesn't comes shipped by default
[18:40] <sergio-br2> yes, it is what i said before.
[18:40] <ochosi> we haven't settled on a default shortcut if whiskermenu is there by default
[18:41] <ochosi> could be something like super+spacxe
[18:41] <slickymaster> got to run now, bbl
[18:42] <sergio-br2> there is 2 shortcut that works in ubuntu, but not in xubuntu. The shortcut for Calculator and the enable/disable touchpad. I can config this, but i don't know why it does not come as ubuntu
[18:43] <holstein> sergio-br2: they are the same repos, and xubuntu is an official spin, but it doesnt have to be the same as, nor try to emulate, necessarily, ubuntu in any way
[18:45] <sergio-br2> yes, but for a noob user, he expects that his shortcut for calculator, for example, works out-of-box.
[18:46] <sergio-br2> like others, such touchpad enable/disable, bright up and down, sound level...
[18:46] <holstein> sergio-br2: personally, ive never expected a shortcut to a calculator.. but, those shortcuts are editable
[18:46] <holstein> sergio-br2: you cant ever please everyone...
[18:47] <ochosi> +1
[18:47] <sergio-br2> hum, yeah, it's true
[19:01] <brainwash> but you are talking about the media keys or?
[19:03] <sergio-br2> i'm talking about Fn + other keys
[19:06] <brainwash> you could add missing ones if possible and create a patch
[19:07] <sergio-br2> i'm searching the files to make the patch
[19:07] <sergio-br2> xfce4-settings ?
[19:07] <brainwash> xubuntu-default-settings I guess
[19:07] <sergio-br2> ok
[19:08] <Unit193> I'd presume restoring the old C+A+Esc xkill keybind wouldn't do.
[19:09] <brainwash> sergio-br2: bug 1165266
[19:10] <ochosi> bbiab
[19:11] <sergio-br2> interesting
[19:11] <Unit193> So what all pull requests are pending ?
[19:11] <Unit193> Didn't blues have two?
[19:12] <brainwash> ouch.. bug 1227637
[19:16] <brainwash> sometimes it's really sad that fixes/patches get delayed so much :(
[19:18] <Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/+activereviews - https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.trusty/+activereviews  And what, other times it's a happy thing? :P
[19:20] <brainwash> most of the time it's simply "whatever" :D
[19:22] <brainwash> however, people like and use Xubuntu, so this 14.04 LTS release should be an awesome one
[20:42] <brainwash> does Xfce restore running apps even if this feature is unticked?
[20:43] <brainwash> I never used this before, but it really behaves strange.. no wonder so many users complain about it and flood the forums with threads about it
[20:48] <sergio-br2> in saucy there was a problem with this, but in trusty it's work right, i think
[20:56] <jarnos> brainwash, are you using it in 13.10?
[20:58] <jarnos> Bad session memory has been a long time issue with Xfce, so it is good, if it is fixed for the future release.
[21:03] <ochosi> jarnos: you're also using xubuntu?
[21:04] <jarnos> ochosi, yes, 13.10
[21:04] <ochosi> yeah, i've also seen some session problems in 13.10, but as i've "polluted" my system with tons of components from git, i'm not sure it's not my fault :)
[21:05] <jarnos> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10593
[21:09] <ochosi> i see
[21:09] <ochosi> not sure i'd call it a long-time issue, 4.10.1 isn't that old yet (in xfce release time)
[21:12] <jarnos> ochosi, yes, but I have had different kind of problems with it before. It couldn't remember sessions right or something...
[21:15] <ochosi> mhm
[21:15] <jarnos> ochosi, Then I had to delete xfce session cache from ~/.cache/sessions
[21:19] <jarnos> doing that after logout might help to forget xfce session in 13.10 ;)
[22:30] <jarnos> ochosi, brainwash sergio-br2 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/1204919/comments/7 So has this behavior changed somehow in trusty? It has the same version of xfce4-session, right?
[22:31] <knome> micahg-work, micahg: ping me when you're around.
[22:33] <sergio-br2> jarnos, if you save some session, and after you choose to not save session, then the last save session will be used by the system
[22:34] <jarnos> sergio-br2, yes, it is the same in saucy.
[22:34] <ochosi> have you checked whether the xfconf variable remains set?
[22:35] <sergio-br2> but this option, "Automatically save session on logout", is working well in trusty. If you check this, it saves the session, if you don't check, it will not save the session. But in Saucy there is a problem with this option.
[22:38] <sergio-br2> jarnos, so, you think that if you uncheck session save options, the next session could be an empty session?
[22:40] <sergio-br2> If you uncheck session save option, it does not necessarily mean that you want to erase the previous saved sessions.
[22:43] <jarnos> sergio-br2, I don't see the problem in saucy. 
[22:44] <sergio-br2> hum, so, it was fixed? A month ago i was with this problem. Don't know.
[22:45] <jarnos> sergio-br2, many people tend to assume that if you choose "do not save" it means "start next time empty session". I guess it is too hard to find the option to start like that.
[22:45] <jarnos> sergio-br2, how did it behave then?
[22:47] <sergio-br2> "many people tend to assume that if you choose "do not save" it means "start next time empty session"" , yeah, this happened with me, i thought like this hehe :)
[22:52] <sergio-br2> i know that you have to erase the previous saved session manually, but i don't know what the better xfce behavior after you choose "do not save"
[22:52] <sergio-br2> i tested this in trusty
[23:02] <jarnos> sergio-br2, it could have another checkbox then : "delete saved session"
[23:03] <sergio-br2> but there is this option in Session tab, "Clear saved sessions" button, take a look
[23:08] <jarnos> sergio-br2, yes there is, but it could be in the logout window, too. I think it would be more intuitive.
[23:08] <sergio-br2> hum, yeah, this would be an wish list
[23:10] <jarnos> sergio-br2, or it could be like "Use saved session on next login"
[23:14] <sergio-br2> but there is something like this, try to check "Display chooser on login" option in General tab and do a logout and login, then you will see an window, with the saved session (Default) and a "New session" button.
[23:32] <jarnos> sergio-br2, good point.
[23:35] <sergio-br2> jarnos, if there is no saved session, then there is no window for session choice, even if "Display chooser on login" is checked
[23:36] <sergio-br2> *in the login