[00:00] <brainwash> for trusty?
[00:08] <Unit193> Well, it's already a transitional package now, so doesn't exist.
[00:08] <Unit193> !info gcalctool
[00:17] <brainwash> could have been changed in raring already :P
[00:17] <Unit193> But wasn't, so why not now?
[00:18] <ochosi> indeed
[00:18] <brainwash> I like changes
[00:18] <brainwash> so lets make sure that trusty will be awesome
[02:21] <ran> hi. there is a known bug about logging the results of fsck?
[02:22] <holstein> ran: not that im aware of.. did you see anything in lp?
[02:23] <Unit193> /var/log/fsck exists, but nothing of interest for me.
[02:24] <holstein> i have nothing logged there
[02:26] <ran> im not a developer, but in the past boot.log has showed the results of fsck. sorry about my english.
[02:29] <ran> this is very important data, and this was the only easy way to read the results of fsck.
[02:48] <Unit193> ran: 1. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mountall/+bug/513644  2. What happens if you remove  quiet  from the grub options?
[02:57] <ran> i dont see anything, until the password screen.
[06:49] <Unit193> http://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/xubuntu Huh.
[07:57] <Noskcaj> Unit193, PPA updated, will indicator need a rebuild?
[07:57] <Noskcaj> hey elfy 
[07:58] <elfy> hi Noskcaj 
[07:59] <Noskcaj> the version of panel in my ppa is updated to git master, thanks to Unit193 
[08:00] <elfy> ok - apt will be having a look shortly I'd hope - keeping an eye on software updater working - not that I use it when it tells me :p
[08:08] <Unit193> Noskcaj: Shouldn't.  Also, you version weirdly. :P
[08:08] <Noskcaj> Unit193, For panel, it's copying from lionel's PPA
[08:09] <Noskcaj> for everything else, stop h8ing ;)
[08:09] <Unit193> Nah. .master.gitdoij44r. ;P
[08:09] <Unit193> Anywho, you should be set then.
[08:10] <Noskcaj> now if apt-get update would be less slow, i could actually test it
[08:11] <elfy> fast enough here :p
[08:12] <elfy> just got those updates - what does the newer panel fix?
[08:12] <Noskcaj> It's actually from master, for one
[08:12] <Unit193> elfy: Tries to fix transparency, not quite though.
[08:15] <elfy> the whole panel is now transparent - not just the indicator bit 
[08:15] <elfy> is that what you mean by not quite?
[08:16] <elfy> nvm
[08:16] <elfy> had it set to transparent - it's just not been working for ages - forgot the setting :D
[08:17] <Unit193> elfy: Wait, so everything is actually working now?
[08:17] <Unit193> elfy: Can you set a panel bg?
[08:17] <elfy> looks to be 
[08:17] <elfy> hang on will look
[08:17] <Unit193> Hrm, I may have to install it.
[08:18] <elfy> yep
[08:19] <elfy> lets me set bg fine
[08:20] <Unit193> Well that was issue one, second was icons too large and indicator-sound had dumb deps or recommends.  I'll try it for sure though on a VM or something that's easier to revert.
[08:20] <elfy> only oddity I can see at moment - right click on something populating panel to get it's menu - highlights in system colour
[08:21] <elfy> right click on ind panel and highlighting is odd
[08:24] <elfy> not easy to explain that - so http://i.imgur.com/yYLDQmZ.png
[08:27] <Unit193> Ah, strange, but not too bad.
[08:27] <elfy> nope - I agree - not 'bad' but strange :)
[08:27] <elfy> all in all - it's looking good imo 
[08:28] <elfy> nice to have the gtk3 inds - even if we don't want to use them 
[08:29] <Noskcaj> hey DanChapman 
[08:29] <DanChapman> Noskcaj, hey there :-)
[08:30] <elfy> hi DanChapman 
[08:30] <DanChapman> Good Morning elfy
[08:32] <Unit193> Yep, would be easier on here since it only has indicator-messages-gtk2 indicator-status-provider-pidgin libappindicator1 libappindicator3-1 and libindicator-messages-status-provider1 from other releases.
[08:33] <elfy> wouldn't know - too voodooie for me :p
[08:34] <Unit193> indicator-sound is held too, libindicator7 and indicator-messages it seems as well. :P
[08:34] <Unit193> VM it is.
[08:35] <elfy> mmm - I see date is still borked though
[08:35] <Unit193> Menulibre2 should hopefully be ready for testing soon.
[08:36] <elfy> good
[08:36] <elfy> #panicsetsin
[09:13] <elfy> changing theme or icons still sets the ind panel to transparent
[09:22] <ochosi> elfy: that's not only a problem related to the panel
[09:22] <ochosi> all gtk3 apps have a hard time with changing themes
[09:22] <ochosi> you have to mostly close and restart them after changing themes
[09:23] <ochosi> one of the less-fun regressions of gtk3 over gtk2
[09:23] <elfy> ok - I thought that was the case - just pointing out what I see :)
[09:24] <ochosi> sure thing
[09:24] <elfy> the date thing is odd - saw a bug for it - but if we're not using that ind then I'm meh
[09:25] <ochosi> i think the indicator-plugin also needs an update
[09:25] <ochosi> we're using the latest release, but there were some fixes after that with respect to label width
[09:25] <ochosi> so this is how the new panel looks in saucy: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-01052014-102435am.php
[09:25] <ochosi> Unit193: ^
[09:26] <Unit193> Yeah, wasn't sure if you wanted to move back to snapshots since he kindly released some for you.
[09:26] <ochosi> "he"?
[09:27] <elfy> ochosi: if you were looking at the terminal icon in a panel like that - I'm not surprised you thought it was ok :)
[09:27] <ochosi> elfy: haha, no well that never worked until just now ;)
[09:27] <elfy> :p
[09:27] <ochosi> so does transparency work for you now in trusty?
[09:27] <elfy> yep
[09:27] <ochosi> sweet
[09:27] <ochosi> for the whole panel?
[09:27] <ochosi> or just the gtk3 indicators
[09:28] <elfy> http://imagebin.org/285245
[09:28] <ochosi> and fwiw, i think i'll have to add text-shadows to the indicators in our theme (as you can see in the incosnsitency between the clock and the power-indicator time)
[09:28] <ochosi> nice
[09:29] <ochosi> feel free to remove the frame around the systray ;)
[09:29] <elfy> I just did :)
[09:29] <ochosi> actually, do you not have indicator-application installed?
[09:29] <ochosi> because the nm-applet should also be an indicator
[09:30] <elfy> 12.10.1+14.04.20131125-0ubuntu1
[09:30] <ochosi> brainwash: sorry, i can't reproduce your xfdesktop theming problem so far (have relogged a few times now)
[09:30] <elfy> ochosi: it is installed
[09:30] <ochosi> strange that it isn't in use then...
[09:31] <elfy> yea - sitting in notification area that is
[09:31] <elfy> and it's not hidden 
[09:33] <elfy> so other than that not working here - the only real odd looking thing is workspace switcher bg being black when it has miniature view
[09:34] <elfy> looking good :)
[09:34] <ochosi> it should normall automatically only show an indicator once indicator-application is found and the systray-icon is hidden automatically
[09:34] <ochosi> nice, good to hear
[09:34] <ochosi> well that's a problem of the workspace switcher itself, it was always like that
[09:35] <ochosi> so it isn't a regression
[09:35] <elfy> yea - understood - no idea why that application indicator isn't working here
[09:35] <ochosi> yeah, we should try to find out
[09:35] <elfy> yep - realise it's not a regression
[09:35] <ochosi> what if you e.g. start transmission?
[09:35] <ochosi> that should also have an app-indicator
[09:35] <elfy> doesn't show up 
[09:36] <ochosi> or, if you go to the settings of the indicator plugin
[09:36] <ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-01052014-103614am.php
[09:36] <ochosi> should look like this ^
[09:36] <elfy> not got session management
[09:37] <ochosi> well that's just another indicator
[09:37] <elfy> I have bluetooth and kbd hidden 
[09:38] <ochosi> so application is there?
[09:38] <ochosi> in the list i mean
[09:38] <ochosi> if not, check if you accidentally have indicator-application-gtk2 installed as well
[09:38] <elfy> it is in the list 
[09:39] <ochosi> hm
[09:39] <ochosi> can you still check whether you have the gtk2 package installed?
[09:39] <ochosi> (that'd at least explain it)
[09:39] <elfy> not installed
[09:40] <elfy> ind-application/libappindicator3-1 and xfce4-indicator-plugin
[09:40] <elfy> are the only things installed synaptic finds with indicator-applica
[09:41] <ochosi> ok
[09:41] <ochosi> then we have to find the problem elsewhere
[09:42] <elfy> http://imagebin.org/285247
[09:42] <elfy> just so you know what it looks like here 
[09:42] <elfy> as always - more than happy to install/remove/fiddle with things as people point them out 
[09:43] <ochosi> so the main regression is gone, we should really start trying to get that in the archive now
[09:44] <ochosi> ok, thanks elfy
[09:45] <Unit193> Erm, would have to wait on garcon and 3.11 release, I'd think.
[09:46] <elfy> what was the main regression then? 
[09:47] <ochosi> Unit193: you mean a 4.11.1 release of the panel?
[09:47] <Unit193> Yep.
[09:47] <ochosi> elfy: transparency and bg-image setting failed
[09:47] <ochosi> Unit193: i'm not really sure that'll happen in time
[09:48] <elfy> ochosi: oh right - that's been missing for a while 
[09:48] <elfy> good to have it back though :)
[09:48] <ochosi> yup
[09:49] <ochosi> Unit193: problem is, we can't pressure upstream to do a release of the panel just on behalf of our schedule
[09:49] <ochosi> i mean we can, but it's not nice and probably won't work
[09:51] <elfy> ochosi: I always end up with a desktop full of screenshots as soon as I start talking to you ... 
[09:51] <elfy> :)
[09:51] <ochosi> hehe
[09:51] <ochosi> more problems?
[09:52] <elfy> no - not at all :)
[09:52] <ochosi> good :)
[09:52] <elfy> the only shame is the lack of command history in whisker menu 
[09:53] <elfy> I'll start hassling bluesabre for menulibre2 soon :)
[09:53] <ochosi> yeah, well, not strictly a regression over the classical menu
[09:53] <ochosi> from what i read, it's almost finished
[09:53] <elfy> yep - read that in scrollback 
[09:54] <elfy> no - not a regression - but without that I'm a bit +0 on whisker-menu 
[10:11] <elfy> ochosi: do you know what the current state of play with light locker is - I've lost track completely
[10:15] <ochosi> elfy: are you using/testing it atm?
[10:16] <elfy> yep
[10:18] <elfy> just the lock screen issue - I think - I saw something from jarnos re a fix from xfce end - but not had the chance to look more
[10:18] <elfy> ie - lock screen isn't working with the patch hanging about on the LP bug report
[10:19] <ochosi> so you edited /usr/bin/xflock4 and added the line for light-locker?
[10:19] <elfy> yea 
[10:20] <ochosi> could you paste the content of the file?
[10:20] <elfy> the one I saw from jarnos was a lot of change - I did try renaming the current xflock4 to .bak and just putting in that one - but then lock screen just ended up disabled in the menu 
[10:21] <elfy> http://pastebin.com/v2Gwszyy 
[10:21] <elfy> current xflock4 
[10:22] <elfy> http://bug-attachment.xfce.org/attachment.cgi?id=5295 was the thing I tried to use 
[10:22] <ochosi> and you have xscreensaver uninstalled i presume?
[10:22] <elfy> yep
[10:22] <ochosi> with the file you pasted it should work
[10:22] <elfy> and no gnome-screensaver obviously
[10:22] <elfy> yea - that was what I thought - doesn't though
[10:22] <ochosi> you could try to run xflock4 from the terminal and see whether there's any output at all
[10:23] <elfy> just returns to the prompt
[10:24] <ochosi> odd
[10:25] <ochosi> and running light-locker-command -l directly?
[10:25] <elfy> this particular install was a new vanilla - to which I added the few PPAs to get panel/tabwin etc in 
[10:26] <elfy> light-locker: command not found
[10:26] <ochosi> do you have light-locker installed?
[10:26] <elfy> LMAO
[10:27] <elfy> yes ... now ... 
[10:27] <elfy> I told you I was all over the place ... 
[10:27] <ochosi> ;)
[10:27] <ochosi> then the xflock4 patch should work better
[10:27] <elfy> ok - so light-locker works ok ... 
[10:27] <ochosi> although after installing, you might have to restart your session
[10:27] <elfy> just did it - locked and logged back in
[10:27] <ochosi> sweet
[10:27] <elfy> sorry for wasting time :(
[10:28] <ochosi> no problem at all
[10:28] <ochosi> the main thing is that it works
[10:28] <ochosi> so please test that as much as you can :)
[10:28] <ochosi> (suspend etc)
[10:28] <ochosi> i'll try to get a few fixes needed for that into the greeter asap
[10:29] <elfy> ok 
[10:30] <ochosi> (currently it may show "log in" where it should say "unlock" after suspending)
[10:33] <elfy> I'll look now 
[10:34] <elfy> suspend comes right back to the desktop, perhaps it will need rebooting
[10:34] <ochosi> possible, not sure
[10:34] <elfy> locking - shows 'unlock' 
[10:34] <ochosi> ok, that's good
[10:35] <elfy> I'll reboot now - and then check what happens with suspend
[10:41] <elfy> ochosi: ok - a few observations
[10:42] <elfy> 1 - still got grey screen thing - assume that's somthing else anyway
[10:42] <elfy> 2 - lock screen - works fine, showed 'lock' not login - came back to apps open when I locked screen
[10:43] <ochosi> ad 1: yeah, that takes a few PPAs and not even then it's working for everyone
[10:44] <elfy> 3 - suspend - showed me screen lock warning as it went down / when I brought it back - went to login - logged in to desktop with none of the apps open when I suspended / the 'names' of the various items on the desktop were in a highlighted box - all of them
[10:44] <elfy> had to logout - then login again and got the session stuff back 
[10:45] <elfy> that's all I saw
[10:45] <ochosi> hm, 3 is strange
[10:45] <brainwash> highlight box.. that's the xfdesktop theme bug :D
[10:45] <ochosi> but i'll ask you to test again after i pushed some fixes to the greeter for that
[10:45] <elfy> ok 
[10:46] <elfy> brainwash: thanks 
[10:46] <elfy> certainly this morning when I brought it back from suspend without light-locker installed it worked fine - other than just coming straight back to the desktop with no password :D
[10:47] <elfy> so not really working 'fine' ... 
[10:47] <brainwash> elfy: did you set the env var "INDICATOR_ALLOW_NO_WATCHERS=yes"?
[10:47] <brainwash> if no, the nm-applet might fail to load as indicator
[10:47] <brainwash> and fall back to notification icon
[10:48] <elfy> ochosi: I tend to know when things get updated - I read the list of updated packages, if I see a light locker change I will be on the case to test suspend
[10:48] <brainwash> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Gtk3Indicators
[10:48] <brainwash> known issues
[10:48] <elfy> brainwash: yep - did that - got all indicators here - excecpt the app inds for some reason 
[10:50] <brainwash> elfy: are you sure that your system was able to suspend properly? the open apps should no vanish and stay open
[10:50] <brainwash> not
[10:51] <elfy> suspended - told me it was suspending - gave me some warning screen - turned off - came back to login screen - logged in - none of the open apps appeared - and they do that for any sort of restart for me 
[10:51] <brainwash> and did the desktop icons look like this (right side) http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/onetwo.php ?
[10:52] <elfy> so - logically I would say that it's not suspending properly with light-locker installed
[10:52] <elfy> brainwash: yep - that's what I had - not orange though
[10:52] <elfy> 2 ticks - I'll see if it replicates
[10:53] <brainwash> the orange part is the default look with numix theme
[10:53] <ochosi> brainwash: looks like ambiance actually
[10:55] <elfy> ok - that cam back properly that time - just said login instead of unlock
[10:56] <brainwash> I'll update my panel now and restore the missing items (compiling from source broke the wrapper-1.0 somehow, so some panel items got removed)
[10:56] <ochosi> elfy: that's the known issue
[10:56] <elfy> fleetingly saw a light locker message when it came back this time as well
[10:56] <ochosi> that's not a huge problem i think
[10:56] <ochosi> the locker message i mean
[10:57] <elfy> ok - so not sure why I got all that earlier stuff - but the last 2 or 3 suspends seemed to be ok 
[10:57] <elfy> yep
[10:57] <elfy> ochosi: understood
[10:57] <ochosi> ok, nice
[10:57] <brainwash> login button instead of unlock one -> bug 1264563
[10:57] <elfy> so - that's looking good - even better when it's installed :p
[10:58] <ochosi> hehe
[10:58] <elfy> knome: nice easy job for you to do - it's more than 48 hours now :)
[10:58] <knome> what is
[10:58] <elfy> and the 3 proposed people are missing from -team :)
[10:59] <ochosi> nice catch :)
[10:59] <elfy> I'm starting to wake up a bit ... 
[11:00] <elfy> it's been a rather rubbish 4 weeks 
[11:00] <knome> heh, yeah
[11:01] <knome> elfy, what do you mean "missing"
[11:01] <knome> O:P
[11:01] <elfy> better late than never :D
[11:03] <knome> yeah, being too exact never was the point
[11:03] <elfy> brainwash: I me too'd that 
[11:03] <knome> but thanks for the reminder
[11:03] <elfy> knome: lol - welcome :)
[11:03] <knome> also tweeted that
[11:04] <knome> https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/419786110185648128
[11:04] <elfy> slicky at least was someone I wanted in to team last cycle 
[11:04] <elfy> woot
[11:06] <elfy> knome: that trello board set up for qa seems to be working well as a tool by the way
[11:07] <knome> aha
[11:07] <knome> what are you working on in there
[11:08] <elfy> http://imagebin.org/285258
[11:22] <elfy> !team
[11:22] <elfy> knome: best change that as well then :p
[11:22] <knome> what now
[11:22] <knome> :P
[11:22] <elfy> I'm really waking up ... 
[11:22] <knome> my internet is meh
[11:22] <knome> just started lagging
[11:22] <elfy> I'd lend you some if I could 
[11:23] <elfy> not much - just some :p
[11:34] <knome> ughhh
[11:51] <elfy> that good ... 
[12:11] <brainwash> replaced my compiled version of xfce4-panel with the new PPA one, transparency is working now, but the mail and sound indicator are using a second (empty) row again
[12:12] <brainwash> in deskbar mode I mean
[12:16] <elfy> brainwash: looks ok here in deskbar mode
[12:17] <elfy> jarnos: hi - caught your comments earlier re light-locker - thanks for those
[12:18] <elfy> fixed it - I didn't have light-locker installed at all ... 
[12:19] <elfy> brainwash: http://imagebin.org/285266
[12:19] <brainwash> elfy: does it look ok after login? if you switch the mode mid session the glitch might not occur
[12:20] <elfy> checking that
[12:20] <brainwash> what happens if you hover over the mail indicator?
[12:20] <brainwash> how big is the highlight box
[12:20] <elfy> 2 rows - the deskbar is set at 2 rows
[12:21] <elfy> aligned ind to left - highlights 2 rows
[12:21] <ochosi> hover-size = panel-width x icon-height+widget-padding
[12:21] <elfy> hang on - logging out/in
[12:21] <ochosi> brainwash: i've lost track of that a bit over the holidays, but what's the status quo of the flicker-free desktop-transition?
[12:21] <ochosi> do we have PPAs that fix that for everyone now?
[12:22] <ochosi> or does it still need stuff compiled from source
[12:22] <elfy> brainwash: no change 
[12:23] <brainwash> ochosi: yes, Unit193's PPA (xfwm4, optionally xfdesktop) and a recent version of lightdm-gtk-greeter (1.7.0 for example)
[12:23] <brainwash> elfy: thanks
[12:23] <elfy> setting the panel back to not really annoying now then :)
[12:24] <jarnos> elfy, you are welcome
[12:24] <brainwash> ochosi: and it works for me (worked all the time with ali1234's fixes)
[12:26] <elfy> back later - have a good day 
[12:28] <ochosi> brainwash: has it worked for others as well?
[12:34] <elfy> before I go - odd thing - panel preferences - hover over auto show and hide to get the tooltip
[12:35] <elfy> you get the same tooltip on don't reserve space now
[12:37] <elfy> seems that the don't reserve space thing doesn't make a difference now too - previously an app wouldn't overlap panel iirc
[12:38] <ochosi> ?
[12:38] <ochosi> the tooltips aren't the same for me here
[12:38] <ochosi> and the functionality is also different
[12:38] <ochosi> elfy ^
[12:38] <brainwash> ochosi: not sure, Unit193 reported a strange black screen flicker
[12:39] <ochosi> autohide hides the panel when there's no mouse-over
[12:39] <ochosi> reserve-space keeps the panel on top of everything, so maximized windows go underneath it
[12:39] <elfy> mmm - definitely the same tooltip here 
[12:39] <brainwash> ochosi: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/i269.php
[12:40] <ochosi> that is very strange, we're using the same package
[12:40] <ochosi> brainwash: must be a problem with deskbar and indicators
[12:40] <elfy> ochosi: - yea - agreed with the functionality - could have sworn that resizing would do the same behaviour
[12:40] <elfy> but definitely different toolktips
[12:41] <elfy> sigh 
[12:41] <elfy> s/different/the same
[12:41] <ochosi> i thought the tooltips are the same?
[12:41] <ochosi> ah
[12:41]  * ochosi is a little confused
[12:41] <ochosi> so the functionality works
[12:41] <ochosi> ?
[12:41] <brainwash> ochosi: but I don't understand, it did not happen with my compiled version of the panel (git master), but now it happens again with the PPA version
[12:41] <elfy> ochosi: yea - just rechecked - just tooltip oddity
[12:42] <ochosi> elfy: still weird. could you ask other trusty testers about this later?
[12:43] <ochosi> brainwash: it doesn't seem to happen for me with all indicators
[12:43] <elfy> http://imgur.com/2cVgrlj,94e3V4T#0
[12:43] <elfy> ochosi: yep will do 
[12:43] <ochosi> brainwash: it might have something to do with the ellipsizing that was added recently (i.e. after the 2.2.0 release) of the indicator-plugin
[12:44] <ochosi> elfy: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-01052014-014429pm.php
[12:45] <ochosi> brainwash: doesn't happen with nm-applet, "only" with sound and power
[12:45] <brainwash> right
[12:45] <brainwash> and messages
[12:45] <elfy> ochosi: mmm - odd - I'll ask people ealry this week 
[12:45] <elfy> really off now
[12:45] <ochosi> brainwash: i think we might need the latest git version of the indicator-plugin as well to fix that
[12:46] <ochosi> ok, ttyl elfy 
[15:24] <Unit193> brainwash: Netbook is good, VM has the flicker.
[15:39] <ochosi> could be due to VM graphics drivers?
[16:34] <ali1234> yesterday i loaded up gnome shell inside virtualbox... omg the flickering everywhere
[16:34] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuVQYr5KzP8 <- flickering not caused by youtube. this is what it actually looked like
[17:33] <ochosi> hey xnox 
[17:44] <xnox> hi
[17:48] <lderan> hi xnox :D
[17:49] <ochosi> xnox: i don't want to bother you long or steal too much of your time, but first of all, thanks a lot in advance! your offer to help is very much appreciated!
[17:49] <ochosi> whenever you have time for that, we could quickly go through what is needed the most
[19:36] <elfy> ochosi: is there a simple reason why my alt tab is square and not rounded like you see here https://plus.google.com/106086509626546157534/posts/69DtYWSJjss
[19:38] <jarnos> brainwash, where did you get recent light-locker from?
[19:38] <ochosi> elfy: i guess you're not using Unit193's PPA (or if you do, it was superseded recently by the xfce4.12 PPA)
[19:39] <elfy> ochosi: was sure I was 
[19:40] <elfy> though I have the 4.12 as well - so that would be it I guess - thanks
[19:41] <ochosi> no problem
[19:41] <ochosi> you can force the version back to Unit's PPA
[19:41] <ochosi> then the tabwin should look ok
[19:41] <elfy> nope - that's ok - I'll just let updates come on through 
[19:41] <ochosi> will maybe take a longer while for tabwin to land
[19:42] <ochosi> or may not land at all in 14.04
[19:42] <elfy> yep - that's fine
[19:42] <elfy> just wondered if I'd done something :)
[19:44] <ochosi> as to your complaint against whiskermenu, i'd suggest you file a bugreport on github
[19:44] <elfy> ?
[19:44] <elfy> what complaint?
[19:44] <ochosi> well you said you lack the command-history or something
[19:45] <ochosi> (although there is in fact recently used)
[19:45] <ochosi> sry, don't remember well what you wanted :p
[19:45] <knome> or was it Unit193 
[19:45] <elfy> oic - not a complaint - just an observation - just not seeing a need for whisker menu on top of anything else without it
[19:45] <elfy> recently used has nothing in it 
[19:46] <brainwash> jarnos: daily PPA
[19:46] <elfy> knome: no - it was me - unless it was both of us :)
[19:46] <knome> oki
[19:46] <ochosi> well you have to launch apps with whiskermenu for it to have something in it :)
[19:46] <ochosi> works as expected here
[19:47] <ochosi> you can even use that as startup-screen
[19:47] <ochosi> i mean always display favorites or recently-used when you click the icon
[19:47] <ochosi> quite useful i think
[19:47] <elfy> ochosi: I only use Alt+F2 for things like root thunar/panel restarts etc - so the command history for me works
[19:47] <ochosi> right
[19:47] <elfy> different people - different uses :)
[19:58] <ochosi> well anyway, we're deciding on what we think is good for most ppl
[19:58] <ochosi> not necessarily ourselves
[19:58] <brainwash> this would mean that we should go with libreoffice and get rid abibug.. abiword :)
[19:58] <brainwash> and don't the ubuntu guys even plan to keep libreoffice up-to-date during the LTS cycle?
[19:58] <Noskcaj10> brainwash, My issue with libreoffice is how much bigger is it, disk space, RAM, and CPU. Plus it's packaging is a mess, so we'd have to hope the ubuntu guys keep all the bugs fixed, since even a patch is more difficult
[19:58] <brainwash> right, but it should be maintained quite well, on the other hand it takes ages to fix stuff in abiword
[19:58] <Noskcaj10> yeah
[19:58] <brainwash> is libreoffice-writer really a big CPU/RAM hog?
[19:58] <Unit193> knome: No, I looked at whisker a little, and my first observation stands firm.
[19:58] <ochosi> Noskcaj10: is the panel packaging quality-wise up to speed so that it could potentially be uploaded to ubuntu as is from the PPA?
[19:58] <Unit193> ochosi: Close, not quite.
[19:58] <brainwash> I've changed my mind and really enjoy whisker menu now, version 1.3 has a nasty bug, hopefully we can expect 1.3.1 soon :)
[19:58] <ochosi> Unit193: do you think you could get it into the shape that'd be needed?
[19:58] <brainwash> ah right, xfdesktop still shows the old tree app menu, is that OK or should whisker menu get integrated somehow?
[19:58] <Unit193> s/you/Jackson/ ?  Sure, I don't see why not, just a little fix.
[19:58] <Noskcaj10> ochosi, panel should be good, i'll have to check with a debdiff that the cheangelog is right though
[19:58] <ochosi> brainwash: no, whisker can't get integrated there
[19:58] <ochosi> brainwash: so that part will stay as it is
[19:58] <ochosi> Unit193: well, you replied, so... ;)
[19:58] <brainwash> mmh, inconsistency
[19:58] <ochosi> brainwash: yeah, but okayish
[19:59] <brainwash> bug 1254087
[20:00] <brainwash> already marked as wish list request
[20:00] <ochosi> i don't think it's really possible
[20:00] <ochosi> yeah, by whom?
[20:00] <ochosi> he's not gottcode or a contributor to xfdesktop afaik
[20:00] <ochosi> bbiab
[20:01] <brainwash> and is xubu default settings even the right package?
[20:01] <Unit193> Doesn't matter, working patches still welcome. ;)
[20:01] <Unit193> brainwash: Not unless it already works.
[20:02] <jarnos> brainwash, thx
[20:03] <brainwash> maybe someone will work on a patch, when whisker menu gets more popular
[20:03] <Noskcaj10> I think we should try and drop the default size of whiskermenu slightly, it takes a quarter of my screen
[22:33] <ochosi> Noskcaj: quick question, what's the debian status of the 4.11 packages that we need?
[22:33] <ochosi> e.g. libxfce4ui, garcon, xfwm4
[22:33] <ochosi> or xfdesktop
[22:35] <ochosi> or Unit193 ^
[22:38] <Unit193> Need for?
[22:39] <ochosi> 14.04
[22:41] <Unit193> Yes, but in what way do you need something?  What task are you trying to fulfill.
[22:42] <ochosi> well some say we should always sync from debian
[22:42] <ochosi> so if stuff lands there, we'll benefit from it
[22:42] <Unit193> libxfce4ui+garcon/git+xfce4-panel/git+xfce4-indicator-plugin for gtk3 indicators, libxfce4ui+xfwm+xfdesktop for seemless, etc.
[22:43] <Unit193> I'd like to get the terminal in, Debian has it with all the fixes for Ubuntu.
[22:44] <ochosi> mhm, that'd be nice
[22:45] <brainwash_> that's basically the whole Xfce environment
[22:46] <ochosi> well not the whole
[22:46] <ochosi> Unit193: why is libxfce4ui needed for seemless?
[22:46] <ochosi> but anyway, we need it
[22:48] <brainwash_> new version of appfinder would be nice too
[22:48] <brainwash_> including "Use GDbus for communication."
[22:57] <Unit193> ochosi: xfwm buildlog: checking for libxfce4ui-1 >= 4.11.0... 4.11.
[22:58] <Unit193> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/160584863/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-i386.xfwm4_4.11.0%2Btabwin.git20131215.fa67b6a-1~13.10_UPLOADING.txt.gz if you don't believe me. :)
[23:01] <jarnos> brainwash_, I tried recent light-locker with --lock-after-screensaver option. It breaks screen saver and displays the greeter. I think it should not display anything until user action stops screensaver.
[23:01] <ochosi> jarnos: you seem to misunderstand that option
[23:01] <ochosi> light-locker never displays screensavers
[23:01] <ochosi> this is meant for time-based locking
[23:02] <ochosi> (based on the setting of X11s screensaver extension, which saves us to have another ticker running for the timeout)
[23:04] <ochosi> Unit193: i believe you, i must've forgotten about it :)
[23:04] <jarnos> ochosi, but if user has set "xset s blank", screen should blank and not display any greeter.
[23:05] <ochosi> well the greeter is the lockscreen
[23:05] <ochosi> so if the screen is locked, you get forwarded to there
[23:05] <ochosi> you can set the timeout though in the light-locker desktop file
[23:06] <ochosi> so the screen blanks for e.g. 600secs and only then does the session get locked
[23:14] <slickymaster> good night all
[23:14] <ochosi> hey slickymaster 
[23:15] <slickymaster> hi ochosi 
[23:15] <ochosi> jjfrv8_, slickymaster: due to your fabulous work on the xfdesktop docs, there was a proposal now to create doc-versions (i.e. different docs for 4.10 and 4.12), the apps would dynamically find the correct docs for their versions
[23:16] <ochosi> that would create less confusion for users and would make our/your job easier
[23:16] <jarnos> ochosi, light-locker should behave so that it does not display anything, if triggered by the timeout. I tested it and it overrides even DPMS commands for monitor to Standby/Suspend/Off.
[23:17] <slickymaster> ochosi, that is good news
[23:17] <ochosi> slickymaster: yeah, i think so too
[23:17] <ochosi> jarnos: light-locker doesn't control any of that. if you lock your session, you get to the greeter. end of story.
[23:18] <ochosi> jarnos: however, i have implemented screen-blanking in the greeter now, so that when your screen locks, it remains blank
[23:18] <slickymaster> ochosi, I planning on finishing eric's points this week
[23:18] <ochosi> slickymaster: nice, thanks a bunch! it's much appreciated
[23:18] <slickymaster> np
[23:18] <ochosi> slickymaster: thing is, even if we get versions, it'll be just copy paste to create the new pages
[23:19] <slickymaster> ochosi, yes, pretty much since its core it's already done
[23:20] <ochosi> jarnos: problem is: going to the greeter opens a new VT, so basically a new X session. that means that all x settings from your running session are inaccessible (because they're user-specific, so the greeter can't access them, because your session is locked). all timers, incl. dpms get reset (so the screen comes back on)
[23:24] <brainwash_> ochosi: so it would take another 10 min (default value) to blank the screen again?
[23:25] <ochosi> brainwash_: yup
[23:27] <brainwash_> should we reduce this value? xscreensaver blanks the screen after some seconds again, if you move the mouse and do not enter the password to unlock the session
[23:27] <brainwash_> or if you type a wrong password
[23:27] <brainwash_> 10 min to blank again appears to be quite long
[23:27] <ochosi> well, the greeter does blank the screen initially on lock for that exact reason
[23:27] <brainwash_> but only initially
[23:28] <ochosi> fiddling with X variables from the greeter... i'm not sure i wanna go there
[23:28] <brainwash_> lightdm should be able to do alter this timeout
[23:29] <ochosi> it doesn't atm afaik
[23:29] <brainwash_> wish list :)
[23:29] <ochosi> and i'm not sure that they'd see it as a priority
[23:29] <brainwash_> this also applies to the normal login greeter scenario
[23:30] <ochosi> yes, but afaik they have some sort of powermanagement in unity greeter
[23:30] <jarnos> ochosi, can you set the greeter to blank initially and after certain time of inactivity using xset or something in the new VT?
[23:30] <brainwash_> changing the timeout sounds like a nice feature
[23:30] <ochosi> jarnos: the initial blanking is already happening, if you use the greeter from our daily PPA you can test it
[23:30] <ochosi> the other thing i haven't touched yet
[23:31] <ochosi> feel free to investigate, i'm just as new to this as you
[23:33] <jarnos> ochosi, I don't get the update from daily PPA (for saucy), yet.
[23:35] <jarnos> ochosi, DPMS Standby event triggers the lock as well.
[23:39] <brainwash_> jarnos: you should report your findings here https://github.com/the-cavalry/light-locker
[23:39] <jarnos> ochosi, did you mean initial blanking is supposed to work in 1.0.0+2112+4? How do you make it blank?
[23:39] <brainwash_> so we don't lose track of them
[23:40] <brainwash_> jarnos: run "light-locker-command -" or "dm-tool lock"
[23:40] <brainwash_> -l
[23:40] <brainwash_> "light-locker-command -l"
[23:41] <jarnos> brainwash_, it displays greeter, and does not blank. That is not initial blanking.
[23:41] <brainwash_> works for me on two different systems
[23:45] <brainwash_> wait a minute, you do use a recent version of lightdm-gtk-greeter, right?
[23:45] <brainwash_> ideally 1.7.0
[23:47] <brainwash_> the initial screen blanking has been modified slightly
[23:47] <brainwash_> in the first version it did blank the screen twice, which unblanked the screen on some systems
[23:49] <jarnos> brainwash_, lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.6.1-0ubuntu1, the next Xubuntu will have 1.6.1-0ubuntu2, right?
[23:50] <jarnos> brainwash_, but I think that is not the cause. I am using multiple outputs.
[23:50] <brainwash_> try https://launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/+archive/daily
[23:50] <ochosi> jarnos: i'm also using more than one display, still works
[23:52] <jarnos> I tested again with single output. Not working.
[23:53] <brainwash_> the ppa will fix that
[23:53] <jarnos> brainwash_, you mean it will give me more recent lightdm?
[23:54] <jarnos> or lightdm-gtk-greeter?
[23:54] <brainwash_> the latest version of gtk greeter
[23:54] <brainwash_> including a fix for the initial screen blank 
[23:57] <jarnos> brainwash_, soon?
[23:58] <brainwash_> already does
[23:58] <brainwash_> just install the new package and trigger lock screen