[00:16] <knome> slickymaster, the "wiki" team is basically people in the doc team anyway
[00:17] <slickymaster> knome,  are you referring to the editors?
[00:18] <knome> slickymaster, referring to the #ubuntu-wiki discussion
[00:20] <slickymaster> I saw the mail on the DocumentationTemplate, but assumed that was meant just for the wiki editors and admins
[00:20] <knome> that's a different discussion :)
[00:20] <knome> but it was meant for everybody editing the wiki
[00:21] <knome> because the templates are for everybody to use
[00:21] <slickymaster> yes,
[00:22] <knome> my comment was pointed at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2014-January/018548.html
[00:23] <slickymaster> ah :)
[00:24] <slickymaster> knome, but I remember talking with elfy about it and I got the impression that was composed mostly by ubuntu forum mods and some contributors
[00:25] <knome> it's possible it used to, though ultimately the team is/should be just a (non-separate) subteam of the docs team
[00:25] <knome> consisting of everybody who is interested in the wiki
[00:26] <slickymaster> yes and that is logical
[00:26] <slickymaster> but it's been on stand by for while
[00:30] <knome> it's been active lately ;)
[00:32] <slickymaster> well, keeping in mind the idea of people in the doc team, yes, you're right
[00:33] <knome> too much team structure is bleh anyway
[00:33] <slickymaster> knome, but I got to say that the initial idea of migrating some threads from the forum to the wiki strikes me as really good
[00:33] <belkinsa> Hey all, what's up?
[00:33] <knome> yep, i guess that makes them more discoverable
[00:34] <slickymaster> hi belkinsa, how were your holidays
[00:34] <slickymaster> ?
[00:34] <belkinsa> There were fine, yours?
[00:35] <slickymaster> kind pf bumpy, but with health, thanks
[00:48] <belkinsa> Not a problem.  And I know what you mean, I had a nasty burn out
[00:48] <knome> i'm off, have fun belkinsa
[00:48] <belkinsa> See you.
[00:49] <slickymaster> I'm off to belkinsa
[00:49] <slickymaster> cy tomorrow
[00:49] <belkinsa> See you too
[00:49] <belkinsa> Yup
[11:11] <slickymaster> knome: ping
[12:39] <knome> slickymaster, pong
[13:55] <SaberX01> GM all .. after pulling the ubuntu-doc branch yesterday , I tied to use make status  and it's falling over, I can post the actual error if need be, but is this still used?
[13:56] <SaberX01> I played around with different Grep one liners and got a list, but would nice to see the html out from make.
[13:57] <SaberX01> like: grep -R 'status="review"/>' ./   and jsut change the review to help or whatever, then I used |wc -l to get a count on what was what on the status indicators.
[15:09] <slickymaster> knome: you there?
[20:36] <SaberX01_> Is this the best place to discuss ubuntu-docs or is it better to go though the mailing lists?
[21:00] <shaunm> SaberX01_: probably ok to ask things here, but if you don't get a response, use the list
[21:01] <SaberX01_> Ok, thanks, just had probelm with  .. make status .. not working
[21:02] <shaunm> in the ubuntu-docs repository? I don't even see a status target in the Makefile
[21:05] <SaberX01_> I was able to build all the files, but when reading through the editing / checking dos online, said to use make status to list the files current status, help, review  etc
[21:06] <shaunm> that might be outdated info. where's that page?
[21:07] <SaberX01_> Let me get it, net really slow at the moment.
[21:09] <SaberX01_> shaunm, Bottom of this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Checking
[21:10] <SaberX01_> the Tags are there cuz I can grep the tag status with: grep -R 'status="review"/>' ./
[21:14] <shaunm> SaberX01_: which document are you looking at?
[21:14] <SaberX01_> This one: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Checking
[21:15] <shaunm> no, I mean on which document are you trying to run make status?
[21:15] <shaunm> the ubuntu-help document in the ubuntu-docs repository?
[21:16] <shaunm> this wiki page is all about docbook, and I think it's probably outdated (though maybe it's correct for some other document)
[21:16] <SaberX01_> Oh, I'm not marking them up, was just looking for the files that had a status of "help" on them .. to see if there was any I could help out with. But with 370+ files, that's allot to look through for jsut the "help-wanted" files.
[21:17] <SaberX01_> shaunm, Yes, this is system Documentation: lp:ubuntu-doc
[21:17] <SaberX01_> I pulled the Repo .. and was lookign to start helping with it, reviewing, maybe a few edites etc.
[21:18] <shaunm> you should probably just use the yelp-check command, from the yelp-tools package
[21:19] <SaberX01_> ok .. I'm kinda new to the system docs stuff, so, I need to go read up on yelp-tools not used them before.
[21:19] <SaberX01_> Is the Ubuntu dosumentation Page out of date then / needs updating ?
[21:21] <shaunm> I can't really say for certain. the team maintains a few different documents, and that info might still be correct for some of them
[21:21] <shaunm> (though in that case it should probably say so)
[21:21] <shaunm> I just know mallard and upstream yelp stuff
[21:22] <SaberX01_> ok, Im looking at yelp-tools now, did not see anything on the wiki about the tools. Mainly Im looking to spend calories, but where is the big sea of documents is the question :-)
[21:23] <SaberX01_> shaunm, I just wanted to work on the 14.04 docs and thought I was following the right How-Too there.
[21:24] <shaunm> somewhat useful: https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Yelp/Tools/yelp-check
[21:25] <SaberX01_> ok, and 14.04 is all Mallard now yes?
[21:32] <dsmythies> SaberX01_: I don't know about "make status", as I never use it. In the last cycle I didn't even know we were supposed to keep the status lines up to date.
[21:32] <dsmythies> Why? becuase I came from the server guide and we don't worry about it there.
[21:32] <dsmythies> We track status on a google page, I'll find the link in a minute...
[21:33] <SaberX01_> yelp-check status does what I was after ..
[21:33] <dsmythies> as for creating the html, please see the build wiki page. Link coming in a moment.
[21:34] <dsmythies> Oh, and "Little Girl" was working on mkaing all the status pages up to date for the 14.04 cycle a month or two ago, but I forget how far she got.
[21:34] <SaberX01_> dsmythies, Yeah, I got all fo the pages to build just fine, but was looking for pages to review, check or whatever, and had no idea where to start looking, so went to the wiki and found that .. make status ..
[21:35] <dsmythies> Give me a moment to find the links.
[21:35] <SaberX01_> dsmythies, I read a bit of what Little Girl put out, they using the Kubuntu Wiki Tasks for tracking.
[21:36] <SaberX01_> at least for Kubuntu Sys Docs anyway.
[21:38] <dsmythies> We are using this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsSw0cKYcffNdFlFakF5M0VjR002UEVvakVPZGpydHc
[21:39] <dsmythies> for status tracking for 14.04
[21:40] <dsmythies> for html see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/BuildingDocumentation
[21:40] <SaberX01_> Who maintains the Spreadsheer?
[21:40] <SaberX01_> Spreadsheet
[21:41] <dsmythies> or even easier (for just english), see the build html area of: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/UbuntuDesktopGuide
[21:41] <dsmythies> We all maintain the spreadsheet
[21:43] <SaberX01_> I'm not on the Commit list so, just needed to figure out a work-flow and where to start. The Yelp-Tools, if folks use the Status could be really helpful.
[21:46] <SaberX01_> In any case, thanks for all the Info .. can start looking through things a bit further now.
[21:52] <dsmythies> SaberX01_: We specially did the getting started page last cycle (previous link) to, hopefully, help people get going. There is also a serverguide version.
[21:54] <dsmythies> at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/UbuntuServerGuide
[21:54] <SaberX01_> Yes, I started on the server guide first, as Im more of a command-line user than desktop. went thought the mailing list, seems there making some changes there as well.
[21:55] <slickymaster> knome, there's no need now. it was related with https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HybridGraphics and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/HybridGraphics
[21:56] <belkinsa> SaberX01_, welcome to the team, if you are new.
[21:57] <knome> aha, oki
[21:58] <slickymaster> knome, if I understood you correctly you're suggesting to merge the wiki page onto the documentation page, right?
[21:58] <knome> no... i think the wiki.u.c page has its own merits as it is
[21:58] <SaberX01_> belkinsa, thnx .. just getting a feel for things at the moment .. hope to be able to help out somewhere.
[21:59] <knome> whether some of it should be moved to the community help wiki...
[21:59] <belkinsa> Not a problem.  Make sure you join the list and introduce yourself.
[21:59] <slickymaster> knome, are you think of placing a redirect link on it?
[21:59] <knome> probably, but i'm pretty sure somebody wants to track/update exactly only what is on w.u.c
[21:59] <knome> i was thinking just a normal link would probably do
[22:00] <knome> if the content of the community help page seems to be in conflict with the w.u.c page, then that should be updated
[22:00] <slickymaster> knome, that's my opinion also. That's the reason I pinged earlier this morning.
[22:00] <shaunm> using mallard revision tags and yelp-check is really powerful
[22:00] <slickymaster> knome, I'll reply my opinion in both mailing lists
[22:00] <shaunm> but I'm extremely biased on that subject, so take what I say with a grain of salt
[22:01] <knome> slickymaster, also looking at the background, seems like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/HybridGraphics is used by the developers to track their work
[22:01] <knome> slickymaster, so that's why i don't think we should poke that too much, or move it
[22:02] <slickymaster> agreed
[22:02] <knome> slickymaster, and copying that content over as it is... well if it changes, somebody has to make sure the content is up-to-date, and i don't want that kind of double maintaining effort
[22:03] <slickymaster> that's also why I think that the link should be the best move here
[22:03] <knome> exactly.
[22:05] <SaberX01_> shaunm, I know Im new here, but a quick grep and pipe with yelp-tools status, and bingo, had a status list.
[22:06] <dsmythies> SaberX01_: The google spread sheet is the master list, regardless of other info.
[22:07] <SaberX01_> dsmythies, ok
[22:08] <dsmythies> ... At least that is my understanding. (And as mentioned, I wasn't even updating the status lines last cycle.)
[22:10] <SaberX01_> how often are commits made ?
[22:11] <dsmythies> Commits are done as often as required. Anywhere from many per day, to none for many weeks.
[22:12] <SaberX01_> I see, and for those of us that are not on the commiters list, we send the changes to the mailing list?
[22:16] <dsmythies> You can (send to mailing list), but myself I hate that method, because it just tosses the burden to someone else. You should submit a merge proposal, as described in the getting started page (link(s) from earlier)
[22:19] <SaberX01_> Ahh, yes, thats a much better way .. thnx
[22:22] <dsmythies> SaberX01_: Are you on the ubuntu-doc mailing list? (Myself, I am somewhat IRC challenged and rarely on IRC)
[22:24] <SaberX01_> dsmythies, yes, Im on the mailing list. Have not sent out any mails yet. But it's using my Launchpad account KI7MT
[22:25] <SaberX01_> I should just use the one account KI7MT, that's where all my Ubuntu stuff is anyway.
[22:26] <SaberX01_> or nick I should say .. I do not have any accounts with SaberX01
[22:26] <SaberX01_> be back in a few.
[22:28] <belkinsa> SaberX01_, beaware that you could start another one of these months of a flood of e-mails from on list just like I did a few months back.
[22:30] <SaberX01_> belkinsa, I've been reading all of the November list mails. Allot of interesting things posted. I tried to follow the Server Guys Proposals, but I kinda got lots of the 7-To Do List :-)
[22:30] <belkinsa> Cool.  I'm more of a wiki person, so there's some e-mails that I have ignored.
[22:31] <belkinsa> We will get a prefix system going soon.
[22:32] <KI7MT> belkinsa, Im back, prefix system for what?
[22:32] <belkinsa> Hold on, lookinbg for that message
[22:32] <dsmythies> I still have not caught up on the flurry of e-mail from dec 6th tti dec 16th
[22:33] <dsmythies> I still have not caught up on the flurry of e-mail from dec 6th to dec 16th
[22:33] <belkinsa> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2014-January/018546.html
[22:33] <belkinsa> KI7MT, ^^^
[22:34] <KI7MT> may as well add [ ask ] and [ help ] :-) ... I was gonna ask about all those also :-)
[22:34] <belkinsa> Also, there is one e-mail that I didn't mean to send to the list.
[22:34] <belkinsa> Yeah, those maybe needed and go ahead.
[22:35] <KI7MT> I would think, as a minimum, [ server ] & [ desktop ]
[22:35] <belkinsa> And [wiki]
[22:36] <KI7MT> I dont have a clear understanding of the differences between wiki and help
[22:37] <dsmythies> shaunm, are you still here?
[22:37] <belkinsa> What was the help prefix for, in your mind?
[22:37] <KI7MT> I was referring to wiki.ubuntu.com and help.ubuntu.com
[22:38] <KI7MT> and what the intended use / purpose was / is.
[22:38] <belkinsa> Oh.  Help is what we work on and the wiki is for teams to use.  This is where your LoCo team stuff is.
[22:38] <belkinsa> Help is support
[22:38] <belkinsa> Wiki is where the doc team's docs are is what I meant
[22:39] <dsmythies> help.ubuntu.com is the official ubuntu documention
[22:39] <KI7MT> Ok, so the Help, in an ideal world, should follow closely with the online published Desktop & Server guides yes ?
[22:39] <belkinsa> Woah, woah!  Don't use documentation!
[22:39] <belkinsa> Use Community Help Wiki.
[22:40] <dsmythies> belkinsa, ??? help.ubutnu.com is exactly the online published Desktop & Server guides
[22:40] <belkinsa> But there is other things on that wiki also.
[22:41] <KI7MT> Here's the thing, I use this, allot: https://help.ubuntu.com/  .. both for personal and IRC support use, and often find, things need adding or updating.
[22:41] <dsmythies> And it is NOT a wiki
[22:41] <belkinsa> Oh, I can read.
[22:41]  * belkinsa facepalms!
[22:42] <belkinsa> I shouldn't be multitasking.
[22:42] <dsmythies> KI7MT, Yes many many things need adding or updating
[22:42] <belkinsa> ;)
[22:43] <KI7MT> dsmythies, Yes, fare enough, not beating on that, what Im after is, should help.ubuntu.com match up with the Server & Desktop guides? In other words, if we edit / update one, should all three not get the updates?
[22:43] <KI7MT> Or should thing like ...
[22:44] <KI7MT> sshd-server only be in the server guide and links form Desktop & help to the server pages
[22:44] <KI7MT> Reason I ask is, I found three different pages for OpenSSH Server Config ...
[22:45] <dsmythies> help.ubtuntu.com is not updated very often. I have been the one doing it os recent, and I only do it later in the cycle for a prepliminary version and then again on the release date for the final version.
[22:45] <KI7MT> In my mind, while one could have an an sshd on their desktop .. should the configuration of that server be in the server guides or help adn desktop too ?
[22:47] <dsmythies> Good question, I don't really know, but earlier others were mentioning "double-maintaining", and we should strive for no double-maintaining.
[22:47] <KI7MT> and what's drive that quesiton is, the untold numerb of folks that pop into #ubuntu wih questions. I really dont like to send someone asking about Ubuntu things, to a non-ubuntu site for info, but sometimes, allot of times, we have too.
[22:47] <dsmythies> Myself, I am only familiar with the serverguide version of openssh-server.
[22:48] <KI7MT> dsmythies, That's ok, fare enough, was jsut usign that as an example.
[22:50] <KI7MT> Wherein the Desktop has many itmes exclusive to the DE, the server has many items that can cross over, figuring out where the docs should be, well that's kinda what I was tryign to get my head around.
[22:54] <dsmythies> shaunm, are you still around?
[22:59] <dsmythies> KI7MT, is that an amateur radio call sign? If yes, mine is VE7NP
[22:59] <KI7MT> Yes, .. howdy neighbor :-)
[23:01] <KI7MT> think I finally have this Nick/Clak thing figured out.
[23:01] <KI7MT> Nick/Cloak