[06:07] <18WAFIP2Z> Morning everyone
[06:08] <inetpro> good morning 18WAFIP2Z
[06:08] <inetpro> and hi to everyone else
[06:12] <Symmetri1> morning
[06:24] <Kilos> hi superfly ThatGraemeGuy 
[06:30] <superfly> hi Kilos
[06:32] <inetpro> good morning superfly, Kilos
[06:32] <Kilos> guten morgen mein her
[06:32] <superfly> hi inetpro
[06:32] <inetpro> s/her/herr/
[06:32] <superfly> morning ThatGraemeGuy
[06:35] <ThatGraemeGuy> morning everyone
[06:35] <Kilos> ya man him too
[06:35] <Kilos> sorry, think tank in sleep mode
[06:44] <bduk1> ietsie
[06:44] <Kilos> hi bduk1 mazal 
[06:44] <mazal> Morning everyone , all of the best for 2014
[06:44] <bduk1> More almal
[06:45] <Kilos> ty same to you guys
[06:45] <mazal> Darem 'n nuwe LTS die jaar :)
[06:45] <mazal> Myne raak lank in die tand
[06:45] <Kilos> lol
[06:46] <mazal> Myne het WEER vanself gebreek oom
[06:46] <mazal> Ander dag doen ek updates , toe hy klaar is toe is my bootloader weg
[06:46] <Kilos> nee man
[06:46] <Squirm> Symmetri1: I have a mac address for someone who is attacking our proxy
[06:46] <Kilos> boot-repair fixes probs like that
[06:46] <Squirm> so I blackholed the address
[06:47] <Squirm> Symmetri1: any way I can take this further?
[06:47] <Kilos> looks like you and mage must get together Squirm 
[06:48] <Kilos> their site was also compromised again
[06:48] <Kilos> and ddos attacks here last night
[06:49] <Kilos> new batch of clever kids with new toys
[06:50] <Squirm> meh
[06:51] <Squirm> it's annoying...
[06:51] <Kilos> yeah
[06:52] <Kilos> im using dd if=/dev/sr0 of=/tmp/cdimg1.iso to make an iso file of winme
[06:52] <Kilos> then wanna unetbootin to usb and try install that way
[06:54] <Squirm> Like I said, I've never been successful doing it that way. I've always had to use a CD
[06:55] <Kilos> you cant get cdroms anymore and mine packed up
[06:55] <Kilos> where does that dd command save the iso file to?
[06:57] <Squirm> oh
[06:57] <Squirm> I see
[06:57] <Squirm> to /tmp/cdimg1.iso
[06:57] <Kilos> ty
[06:57] <Squirm> of is the Output File
[06:58] <Squirm> if is the Input File
[06:58] <Squirm> you can change of to where you want it
[06:58] <Kilos> serious command that
[06:58] <Squirm> I use it almost daily
[06:59] <Kilos> oh yes now i see the path it uses
[06:59] <Squirm> /dev/sr0 would  be your cdrom
[06:59] <Kilos> yeah
[07:00] <Squirm> now, if you wanted to say write that ISO onto a Flash Drive, you'd use something like `dd =if=/tmp/cdimage1.iso of=/dev/sdb` where /dev/sdb is your flash drive
[07:00] <Squirm> dd if=/tmp/cdimage1.iso of=/dev/sdb
[07:01] <Kilos> cool ty so no need for unetbootin then?
[07:01] <Squirm> unetbootin is an easy way of doing that command
[07:01] <Kilos> whew the command is much easier than setting up unetbootin to do it
[07:06] <Squirm> turns out if I drop that mac address I did drop, it drops all my outgoing connections :/
[07:08] <Squirm> yet it's not my NIC's mac address 
[07:08]  * Squirm kicks the internet for being full of children
[07:18] <Kilos> ouch
[07:23] <Kilos> nope Squirm that dd made stick dont
[07:25] <theblazehen> hi
[07:26] <Kilos> hi theblazehen 
[07:32] <Vince-0> gosh darnit Monday
[07:34] <Kilos> hi Vince-0 
[07:35] <Vince-0> Hi
[07:36] <theblazehen> hey Vince-0 
[07:40] <Kilos> mazal, ek weet nie wat is fout by jou nie. my 12.04 is baie stabiel
[07:40] <Kilos> moes wine gebruik om dit seer te maak
[07:41] <mazal> Gee hom vir my , ek breek hom gou gou :P
[07:42] <ThatGraemeGuy> Squirm: if you're seeing a MAC address, it must be on your local network surely?
[07:42] <ThatGraemeGuy> you can't see MAC addresses for devices not on your local subnet
[07:43] <Kilos> mazal, wat breek?
[07:43] <Squirm> ThatGraemeGuy: using tcpdump?
[07:43] <Kilos> o ja bootloader
[07:43] <Kilos> install boot-repair
[07:43] <mazal> Daai stabiele 12.04 van oom
[07:43] <Kilos> you can even use it from live cd
[07:43] <Squirm> Kilos: boot-repair?
[07:44] <ThatGraemeGuy> Squirm: I'm not awesome at network stuff, but as far as I know you cannot know a devices MAC address if it isn't on the same physical network
[07:44] <Kilos> Maaz, google boot-repair for 12.04
[07:44] <Maaz> Kilos: "boot - How do I fix booting process in Ubuntu 12.04 after the ..." http://askubuntu.com/questions/321225/how-do-i-fix-booting-process-in-ubuntu-12-04-after-the-windows7-removed :: "Boot-Repair - Community Ubuntu Documentation" https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair :: "How to Repair GRUB2 When Ubuntu Won't Boot" http://www.howtogeek.com/114884/how-
[07:44] <Maaz> to-repair-grub2-when-ubuntu-wont-boot/ :: "how to recovery/repair Linux Ubuntu 12.04 BootLo…
[07:44] <ThatGraemeGuy> i.e. layer 2 network
[07:44] <Kilos> on of the first things i install but havent needed it here
[07:45] <ThatGraemeGuy> Squirm: http://compnetworking.about.com/od/tcpip/f/convertmacipadd.htm
[07:46] <ThatGraemeGuy> yeah, there is definitely no way to determine the MAC address that isn't on the same local network as you
[07:48] <Kilos> hmm... so its one of his kids there
[07:48] <Kilos> hi SubOracle 
[07:55] <theblazehen> what's the problem with seeing mac address?
[08:03] <Squirm> I think I stopped them
[08:03] <Squirm> dropped all incoming traffic on our public NIC to the port
[08:03] <Squirm> seems to have worked
[08:04] <Kilos> Squirm, do you do that with a firewall?
[08:04] <Squirm> yes
[08:05] <Kilos> i see gufw gives option to allow only chosen incomings
[08:05] <Kilos> cool ty
[08:21] <Squirm> I just added an iptables rule
[08:22] <Kilos> ok
[08:22] <Kilos> the dd command to usb should be bootable hey?
[08:23] <Kilos> i did dd if=/tmp/cdimg1.iso of=/dev/sdd  but it dont boot
[08:25] <Kilos> and using unetbootin boots to unetbootin default and keeps trying every 10 secs but i dont think it sees the setup.exe file or something
[08:25] <Kilos> dont boot to winme
[08:25] <Kilos> grrr
[08:39] <Kilos> sjoe Squirm sitick has nothing on it after that dd command
[08:39] <Kilos> hi Wraz 
[08:41] <Squirm> did you make sure your paths are correct?
[08:41] <Squirm> and is /dev/sdd definitely your flash drive?
[08:41] <Kilos> normally if you got wrong path you get a cant find
[08:42] <Kilos> yip gparted and disk utility show it as /dev/sdd
[08:48] <Squirm> then it should all work
[08:48] <Kilos> weird
[08:48] <charl_> hi Squirm, Kilos 
[08:48] <Kilos> stick shows nothing on it
[08:48] <charl_> Maaz: coffee on
[08:48]  * Maaz washes some mugs
[08:49] <Kilos> hi charl_ 
[08:49] <charl_> how's it going
[08:49] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee please
[08:49] <Maaz> Kilos: Done
[08:49] <Squirm> Kilos: then you're stuck with unetbootin
[08:50] <Kilos> lol
[08:50] <Kilos> maybe they both dont work with win stuff
[08:50] <Kilos> ill try take the iso to win7 and use
[08:50] <Kilos> um
[08:51] <Kilos> burnaware
[08:52] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for charl_ and Kilos!
[08:53] <Kilos> Maaz, ty
[08:53] <Maaz> You are welcome Kilos
[08:57] <charl_> Maaz: thanks
[08:57] <Maaz> charl_: No problem
[08:57] <theblazehen> TIL bogosort is really slow..
[08:58] <charl_> hi theblazehen 
[08:58] <theblazehen> hey charl_ 
[08:58] <theblazehen> lol, bogosort still running after 4 min on 5 element array..
[08:58] <theblazehen> 5 seconds on a 4 element array
[08:59] <charl_> hahahaha
[09:00] <charl_> you have too much time on your hands :P
[09:00] <theblazehen> Lol yeah.. Was only like 15 lines of python though..
[09:02] <theblazehen> STILL RUNNING!!1!
[09:04] <theblazehen> I'd assume it'd be a lot faster in C or something? Because then the whole array would fit in the L2 cache.. Hell maybe even L1
[09:04] <theblazehen> OOh! got luck, 4 element array sorted in 9 seconds this time!
[09:05] <charl_> maybe you were using a bad randomisation algorithm
[09:05] <theblazehen> Using python's shuffle()
[09:05] <theblazehen> should be adequate
[09:06] <charl_> sounds like it got stuck in a bad state somewhere
[09:06] <theblazehen> But now I feel the need to do it in assembly..
[09:06] <theblazehen> Yeah, but running on another machine now
[09:06] <theblazehen> lets see which gets there first :p
[09:06] <theblazehen> " The average swaps for Bogosort is (n - 1)n! "
[09:06] <theblazehen> So a shit ton..
[09:08] <theblazehen> Mind checking the code charl_ ?
[09:09] <theblazehen> http://pastebin.com/HG7bV7Wy
[09:13] <Squirm> I couldn't contain myself watching this video
[09:13] <Squirm> https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat
[09:13] <Squirm> you guys talking about these issues
[09:13] <Squirm> watch that :P
[09:16] <theblazehen> Squirm, funny?
[09:16] <Squirm> very much so
[09:19] <theblazehen> Squirm, about to watch. You should watch this also then:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBQ7ukwK56Q
[09:20] <Squirm> it is sfw
[09:21] <theblazehen> yeah
[09:33] <charl_> looking
[09:35] <theblazehen> charl_, ty. Please don't judge the code quality..
[09:35] <charl_> it's an experiment, you never nitpick the code of an experiment
[09:35] <theblazehen> yeah, ty :)
[09:36] <charl_> i don't see any real issues here
[09:36] <charl_> quickly scanning over it
[09:37] <theblazehen> ty.
[09:37] <charl_> what you could do just for interest is count how many times you execute shuffle
[09:38] <charl_> and display that as well
[09:38] <charl_> because that tells you more about (in)efficiency than the execution time
[09:38] <charl_> because execution time will vary depending on the system and current load from other applications
[09:39] <theblazehen> charl_, Ah, yeah ty :) Will do that after this sort is done
[09:39] <theblazehen> Getting 99.9% CPU load for python
[09:41] <theblazehen> Dual-core P4, 1MB L2 cache, 800MHz RAM
[09:42] <charl_> ok well that is also an ancient machine
[09:43] <theblazehen> hehe yeah :p Didn't get much better performance on an OpenVZ container on an i3 though
[09:43] <theblazehen> But think it's probably memory speed limited, right?
[09:46] <charl_> not sure, i'm not that familiar with openvz
[09:49] <theblazehen> yeah, but It'll be in general? Because it needs to fetch the elements of array out of RAM each time i'd assume, and that can take 10- 20 cycles IIRC
[09:58] <charl_> stuff could exist in cache too of course
[09:59] <charl_> but cache size is limited, so yeah
[09:59] <charl_> although, you are working with very small lists
[10:00] <theblazehen> yeah, but isn't python a bit inefficient with memory?
[10:27] <theblazehen> charl_, for some reason it was sorting a 9 element array ...
[10:31] <Kilos> hi tinuva wb
[10:31] <charl_> when it wasn't supposed to?
[10:32] <charl_> for i in range(10)
[10:32] <charl_> range(10) returns [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
[10:33] <charl_> so at the end it calls createx(9) which you then sort, so makes sense right?
[10:40] <theblazehen> charl_, I seem to be sorting an array of 9 when it should be 4
[10:40] <theblazehen> Lemme just make sure
[10:42] <theblazehen> lemme pastebin log with more debugging
[10:46] <Symmetri1> heh man the engineers here are about to discover that when Im the one training, you better be prepared to work 
[10:46] <Symmetria> from monday onwards, Im on a mission to turn the companies IP people into the best goddamn network engineers you can find
[10:47] <theblazehen> Symmetria, good luck man!
[10:48] <theblazehen> charl_, http://pastebin.com/ETE5xAqt
[10:57] <Symmetria> heh I was trying to explain to a network guy why you always wanted to send data with the largest packet size you could
[10:57] <Symmetria> he was having a hard time grasping that if you transmit a 10meg file over ethernet using tcp, with 64 byte packets, you're sending about 37 meg more data than if you use 128 byte packets 
[10:58] <Symmetria> (and about 44meg more data than if you use 1500 byte packets)
[10:58] <Trixar_za> To compensate for or to prevent packet loss?
[10:59] <Symmetria> its got to do with the header sizes actually
[10:59] <Symmetria> you have 52 bytes of header on a tcp packet
[10:59] <Symmetria> so 64 byte packets, you're only transferring 12 bytes of data per packet
[10:59] <Symmetria> or less than 20% of your throughput that is actual data 
[10:59] <Symmetria> 128byte packets, you're up to 76 bytes of data which is well in excess of 50%
[11:00] <Trixar_za> I have always wondered why it used more data to upload and download
[11:01] <Symmetria> ethernet tcp packet is 12 bytes ethernet header, 20 bytes IP header (IF there are no options) and 20 bytes tcp header (again if there are no options)
[11:01] <Symmetria> heh also explaining to people that the source address of a packet is almost never used for routing purposes seems to confuse people
[11:02] <Symmetria> routers (unless very specifically configured), never even bother about the source address when they actually route something
[11:02] <Trixar_za> Makese sense. The destination is more important
[11:04] <Symmetria> heh, yes but it also opens some interesting security issues
[11:05] <Symmetria> which is why tcp does 3 way handshake and maintains state 
[11:05] <Symmetria> with udp, which is uni-directional, because packets are transmitted and never have to be acknowledged
[11:05] <Symmetria> you can change the source address in the packet header, send the data out, the destination will get it, but the source it came from will NOT be where it thinks
[11:05]  * theblazehen facepalms
[11:05] <Trixar_za> lol
[11:06] <Symmetria> I can ping flood you from any address anywhere in about 30 lines of C code :p
[11:06] <Trixar_za> So... source spoofing?
[11:06] <Symmetria> yeah, just change the source address before you transmit 
[11:06] <theblazehen> I can ping flood you from my IP in 1 line of bash...
[11:06] <theblazehen> Yeah, that ain't exactly impressive
[11:06] <Symmetria> theblazehen yes, but thats from your ip, its not from someoen elses :)
[11:06] <Symmetria> and the implications of that are more complicated
[11:07] <Symmetria> because if you have a network broadcast address thats open (ip directed broadcast)
[11:07] <Symmetria> I now spoof YOUR ip and start ping flooding the broadcast from you
[11:07] <Symmetria> the broadcast will take ping packets from you, and broadcast them out to a ton of pcs 
[11:07] <Symmetria> those pcs will then reply... to YOU 
[11:07] <Symmetria> so if Im sending 10k packets a second, to a broadcast with 100 pcs behind the broadcast
[11:08] <Symmetria> you're gonna be getting a million packets a second in fake ping replies aimed at you
[11:08] <Symmetria> and you're gonna die
[11:08] <theblazehen> Symmetria, yeah, t'was a joke
[11:08] <Symmetria> (the basis of a smurf attack)
[11:08] <Symmetria> :P gets even more interesting when you start spoofing mac addresses
[11:09] <Symmetria> hijacking peoples gateways is fun kthx 
[11:09] <theblazehen> ooh?
[11:09] <Symmetria> theblazehen heh, if I send out packets which makes a router believe that your gateway is on MY mac address rather than its real mac address
[11:09] <Symmetria> then your packets are gonan gateway through me
[11:09] <Symmetria> some slightly complicated configurations later, and my pc can then route those packets
[11:10] <Symmetria> and I can man in the middle everything 
[11:10] <Symmetria> ;p
[11:10] <theblazehen> So basically like ARP spoofing?
[11:10] <Symmetria> theblazehen basically 
[11:10] <Symmetria> network hackery is fun ;p
[11:10] <theblazehen> yeah :)
[11:10] <Symmetria> lol I still wanna one day attempt to transmit packets with pre-loaded mpls labels
[11:10] <theblazehen> Hell, 2 years ago I had some fun with it at school :)
[11:11] <theblazehen> mpl labels?
[11:11] <Symmetria> and see what I can do to an mpls network thats badly configured
[11:11] <Symmetria> theblazehen heh, routing in an MPLS network isn't really done by source and destination ips through most of the network
[11:11] <Symmetria> what happens is basically this, you send a packet to destination X 
[11:12] <Symmetria> the first router that gets the packet, looks up destination X and says, whats my remote point gateway for this and what label does that have 
[11:12] <Symmetria> it then applies some labels and it switches it through the network using labels 
[11:12] <Symmetria> and the routers inbetween that are doing the label switching are ignoring the source and destination of the packet entirely, it becomes entirely based on the label switching
[11:12] <theblazehen> read first paragraph on wiki, seems interesting
[11:12] <Symmetria> which is why you can run a core router in a network that only has your network egress points in its routing table 
[11:13] <Symmetria> so that it can figure out the labels on them 
[11:13] <Symmetria> it has no default route, it has no full routing table, but it knows how to switch 
 I can ping flood you from any address anywhere in about 30 lines of C code :p
[11:13] <theblazehen> yeah
[11:13] <tinuva> you can do it in less lines btw
[11:14] <Symmetria> tinuva yeah you can :) but if you're doing it properly you need to do it with raw sockets
[11:14] <Symmetria> and raw sockets take a coupla lines of code to setup 
[11:14] <tinuva> also why write your own C code, if there is utilities available in most linux distros already allowing you to do that :P
[11:15] <Symmetria> tinuva lol, when I was doing that type of shit, I was doing it before code readily existed
[11:15] <theblazehen> tinuva, you can spoof IP with linux ping?
[11:15] <tinuva> not normal linux ping
[11:15] <tinuva> hping you can
[11:15] <tinuva> most distros should have that
[11:16] <theblazehen> Awesome :) dl'ing
[11:16] <tinuva> but just so you know...most SA adsl lines aint good enough to really abuse it :P
[11:16] <theblazehen> I know..
[11:17] <theblazehen> I do have a vps with a gigabit line though..
[11:17] <tinuva> any vps provider allowing you to do gigabit is crazy
[11:17] <tinuva> even the UK ones I find they rate limit the lower end VPS nics
[11:17] <theblazehen> Yeah, I know
[11:17] <Symmetria> heh tinuva ever seen this:
[11:17] <Symmetria> http://pastebin.ca/2530604
[11:17] <theblazehen> pretty damned cheap as well
[11:17] <Symmetria> I wrote that back in 1999
[11:17] <tinuva> and most vps panels out there allow rate limiting on the nics out of the box
[11:17] <Symmetria> its horrible code but it works
[11:18] <Symmetria> and its truely evil 
[11:18] <theblazehen> tinuva, believe me, the place that I got my vps wasn't the kind to look at the settings..
[11:18] <tinuva> Symmetria, yeah that will work :P
[11:19] <tinuva> interesting that you use files for the input
[11:20] <tinuva> i like piping more though
[11:20] <tinuva> makes life easier to chain commands
[11:20] <theblazehen> tinuva, agreed
[11:20] <theblazehen> hell I pipe cat to grep... I love it too much 
[11:25] <Symmetria> heh, I dont like vps's, they tend to limit how much data I can do to stupid low levels :p
[11:25] <Symmetria> so now I just got boxes at various isps that friends work at that are in the bottom of racks 
[11:25] <Symmetria> ;p
[11:29] <Symmetria> lol its a slow day if I don't transfer a coupla hundred gig somewhere
[11:29] <Symmetria> ;p
[11:29] <theblazehen> Symmetria, nice :p Lol, 1 only have 1 TB data on that VPS
[11:29] <theblazehen> but cheap as shit
[11:29] <Symmetria> theblazehen haha lol that would not cut it for me ;p
[11:30] <Symmetria> lol see what I just pasted you :P
[11:30] <theblazehen> Symmetria, yeah. Only $11/year though.. 128 MB RAM, 5 GB disk space openvz
[11:47] <charl_> theblazehen: you are doing something strange there
[11:48] <charl_> theblazehen: if i understand correctly what you are trying to do, you should be defining x inside createx and returning it
[11:49] <theblazehen> charl_, Oh shit! Thanks! :D
[11:51] <charl_> theblazehen: also, you can, but you don't have to return x from bogo
[11:52] <charl_> theblazehen: the object that x references (the list) is mutated by the shuffle calls
[11:52] <theblazehen> ty
[11:53] <charl_> references are always passed by value in python but the object that is being referenced can be mutated at will
[11:53] <charl_> same as with java
[11:53] <charl_> that's why you need immutable objects like strings
[11:53] <theblazehen> Thanks :)
[11:54] <charl_> np
[11:55] <theblazehen> Either way it sorts a 9 element array in 2 seconds now ?!
[11:55] <charl_> that sounds more realistic
[11:55] <theblazehen> yep :)
[11:56] <charl_> btw related to the discussion above
[11:56] <charl_> i host with hetzner which doesn't have a limit on the amount of traffic you can push over the line in a month
[11:56] <charl_> however, your speed is reduced down to 10mbps after the first terabyte
[11:56] <charl_> unless if you pay extra
[11:57] <charl_> conidering how minimalist of a vps it is and that you only have 20gb storage space, it's unlikely that that would be a problem
[11:57] <charl_> unless if you use it for grid computing or something with massive calculations and results that need to be sent around
[11:58] <theblazehen> Become a tor node ;)
[11:58] <charl_> *massive amounts of
[11:58] <theblazehen> or seed popular (FOSS) torrents
[11:58] <charl_> yeah and get your ip banned from pretty much every site in the world and probably get your server taken offline by the hosting company
[11:58] <charl_> no thank you i stay the heck away from tor
[11:59] <charl_> enough people are seeding the torrents, i was downloading linux mint the other day at half a gigabit per second
[11:59] <theblazehen> charl_, I did it, and didn't get shit. And I dunno about you but I don't browse from my VPS..
[12:00] <theblazehen> Although it sounds like a good idea, create socks proxy with SSH and use SSH compression
[12:00] <charl_> i have done it a lot when i sit on insecure wifi
[12:01] <theblazehen> charl_, I did it over port 53 when it was a paywall..
[12:01] <charl_> yeah indeed you can pull out nice tricks like that
[12:01] <charl_> if the paywall doesn't do deep packet inspection of course
[12:02] <charl_> i used to do that myself in fact
[12:02] <theblazehen> Signal shit, so I'm lucky to get 10000 baud though. But only on the one wofo hotspot
[12:02] <theblazehen> wifi*
[12:08] <charl_> bbl
[12:08] <theblazehen> cya charl_ 
[12:48] <mazal> Bye everyone , have a good evening
[14:34] <charl_> back
[14:35] <Kilos> wb
[15:15] <charl_> thanks Kilos 
[15:16] <Kilos> hehe
[15:35] <charl_> have any of you people worked with this before? http://www.docker.io/
[15:39] <theblazehen> charl_, heard good things about it, never used
[15:41] <charl_> i'm looking at it now, it looks interesting
[15:42] <charl_> maybe i just don't completely "get it" but i'm not so incredibly excited by this
[15:43] <theblazehen> charl_, yeah. Wasn't too impressed either at first, untl i started using turnkey linux images for things
[15:44] <charl_> it seems like they are building yet another level on top of the host that's already running inside a hypervisor
[15:44] <charl_> so you have hardware -> host / hypervisor -> VM -> docker
[15:44] <charl_> and then various things running on top of docker
[15:44] <theblazehen> charl_, I thought it would just be containers ?
[15:45] <theblazehen> Eg. hardware -> container
[15:45] <charl_> yes so you have hardware -> host -> hypervisor -> guest -> docker -> container -> application
[15:45] <charl_> not by the way i understand it but maybe i don't understand it
[15:46] <theblazehen> With my experience with OpenVZ the container shares the kernel with the host, basically an enhanched chroot
[15:46] <theblazehen> or bad jail
[15:47] <theblazehen> bsd*
[15:47] <charl_> yes that is exactly what it looks like to me
[15:48] <charl_> so you don't have a full VM, it's a bit like python's virtualenv
[15:48] <theblazehen> yeah
[15:51] <charl_> i don't know about this, i can't help but think we are abstracting things too far now
[15:52] <charl_> maybe if you use it as a replacement for virtualisation
[15:52] <charl_> i guess to some extent it does have advantages
[15:54] <theblazehen> yeah
[16:11] <Kilos> w0000t
[16:11] <Kilos> my cdrw is fixed
[16:12] <Kilos> small piece of shiny stuff stuck on lazer 
[16:12] <Kilos> maybe bit off an old cd
[16:13] <Kilos> charl_, look at dvdisaster. very lekker tool
[16:13] <Kilos> in repos
[16:14]  * Kilos loves ubuntuand linux
[16:18] <charl_> oh that does look very nice indeed
[16:19] <Kilos> saved a coupla cds already
[16:19] <Kilos> actually saved the data and reburned new ones
[16:19] <Kilos> now im sorry ive thrown so many away
[16:20] <Kilos> hehe
[17:24] <Kilos> hey whats news with schumi
[17:25] <charl_> ooh nice brand bokbier yum yum yum
[17:25] <charl_> "herfstbok" they call it here
[17:27] <Kilos> beer?
[17:27] <charl_> yes
[17:27] <Kilos> dunno how peeps can drink that without 90%lemonade in
[17:27] <charl_> this: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand_Dubbelbock
[17:28] <Kilos> no man saving data
[17:28] <charl_> you can only buy it in the winter
[17:28] <charl_> oh just noticed there is no english translation in any case, never mind :P
[17:28] <Kilos> never ever aquired a taste for beer brandy or whisky
[17:28] <Kilos> but loved bacardi and coke
[17:29] <charl_> bacardi ... is that rum?
[17:30] <Kilos> white rum ya
[17:30] <Kilos> largest private brewery in the world i think
[17:30] <charl_> cuban? interesting
[17:31] <Kilos> like colddrink
[17:32] <Kilos> used to laugh. peeps drink and drink then fall off chair
[17:32] <Kilos> very potent but tastes too lekker
[17:33] <charl_> what
[17:33] <charl_> that sounds like oktoberfest
[17:34] <charl_> in the morning it's just awesome, when there is still calm, peace and order (or some of it, in any case)
[17:35] <charl_> but in the afternoon here after lunchtime, "jetzst gehts los"
[17:35] <charl_> *jetzt
[17:36] <Kilos> hehe
[17:53] <charl_> yesterday i went to liege in belgium, interesting city
[17:53] <charl_> took a bunch of fotos http://imgur.com/a/tF0Pz
[17:53] <charl_> some of them was on the way there and back though in NL
[17:53] <charl_> went through maastricht
[17:58] <Kilos> you like exploring hey
[18:00] <charl_> i want to go to ghent next
[18:01] <Kilos> what do you do at all these places? just look
[18:01] <charl_> take photos, look around, eat some food, explore shops, etc
[18:01] <Kilos> whew
[18:01] <charl_> most of it is walking around, looking at landmarks, architecture, etc
[18:27] <Kilos> inetpro, jy baie stil ne
[18:28] <charl_> in dutch we have a saying, when the cat is from the house, the mice dance on the table
[18:28] <charl_> http://nl.wiktionary.org/wiki/als_de_kat_van_huis_is,_dansen_de_muizen_op_tafel
[18:28] <Kilos> kat is weg muis is baas
[18:28] <charl_> yes exactly
[18:29] <Kilos> hehe
[18:29] <charl_> so when inetpro isn't looking let's do like at oktoberfest and dance on the table
[18:29] <Kilos> haha
[18:30] <Kilos> he active like he used to be, and says he is too busy but i think its old age catching up fast
[18:30] <Kilos> he isnt active
[18:31] <Kilos> unfit and getting fat too
[18:31]  * Kilos waits for ai!
[19:04] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[19:04] <Kilos> catch ya tomorrow
[19:06] <inetpro> hmm...
[19:09] <charl_> hahahaha