[00:04] <holstein> Subroutine: use which ever you like
[00:04] <holstein> Subroutine: libreoffice is a fork of openoffice
[00:05] <holstein> Subroutine: it is likely that some folks who dont know that, or dont realize libre is the moder fork of the same project are suggesting openoffice
[00:05] <ianorlin> I haven't noticed much difference and have used both
[00:05] <Subroutine> im staying with libre coz it did the job, i just wondered if there are any good reasons for one or other
[00:06] <Subroutine> *one over other
[00:06] <holstein> Subroutine: there is a good reason for libre, since it is the modern fork of the other project.. assuming you want the latest
[00:06] <ianorlin> both allow me to do what I want and both have a pdf button
[00:11] <Subroutine> cheers guys :)
[00:25] <Hutch> I think openoffice is a new product 'apache open office'. I am interested as my workplace 'NHS' is the largest employer inhe OOo the UK and tried to replace ms office with OOo
[00:27] <Hutch> I may be wrong but if apache open office is different from Open Office Org I would be interested as the OOo for windows was not great
[00:28] <hardboot> Is lubuntu 14.04 qt or gtk2 or gtk3 based, if i remember pcman didn't like gtk3 any more than 2 so he went qt and merged with razrqt
[00:28] <Hutch> It had not been maintained since 2010
[00:28] <Unit193> Apache OpenOffice is what it is now, Oracle gave OpenOffice.org to Apache.
[00:29] <hardboot> libre office is in pretty much every repo
[00:29] <Unit193> It's being developed, so it isn't quite the same.
[00:29] <Unit193> Yep.
[00:29] <Subroutine> Hutch: i did think its the same think. i used aoo in windows some time ago and it worked ok for me.
[00:29] <hardboot> anyone using 14.04?
[00:29] <Unit193> hardboot: GTK2/3
[00:30] <Hutch> I would like to try it then if Apache maintain it
[00:30] <hardboot> LXDE-Qt Lubuntu is probally a 15.04 thing
[00:30] <hardboot> not this year i'm guessing
[00:31] <Hutch> Subroutine: in our work experience there were some random problems with fonts and margins which put our management off OOo
[00:31] <hardboot> the codebase of ooo is a mess
[00:32] <Hutch> hardboot siduction seems to be leading the LXDE/Razor QT front but I wasn't overly impressed although I like the prospect
[00:33] <hardboot> Ya it's so early, not usabel yet
[00:33] <hardboot> The potential is great though
[00:33] <Unit193> LXQT is way too early to use yet.
[00:33] <hardboot> I wonder when it'll be good to go, 15.04/15.10 I guess
[00:33] <Hutch> Just some issues I have with the debian style installation and some software choices for me
[00:34] <hardboot> Not this year for lubuntu unless a massive amount of workwent into it for 14.10
[00:34] <hardboot> who's the gtx lxde maintainer now
[00:34] <Hutch> I would like to see what lubuntu could do with RQT
[00:36] <hardboot> Isn't rqt kinda too minimal
[00:36] <hardboot> you'd have to bring in a lot
[00:36] <holstein> razorQT works great
[00:36] <Hutch> I dropped Mint when they dropped LXDE for cinnamon/MATE. They're not bad now but I needed simpler low res hogging DE then
[00:36] <hardboot> OH razor, i though you meant the embedded QT
[00:36] <hardboot> ya razor is pretty neat
[00:37] <Hutch> Razor QT has great potential if LXDE devs can use it well
[00:38] <hardboot> let's use enlightenment base for lxde HUE
[00:38] <Hutch> nice idea
[00:38] <hardboot> isnt E a 1-man show
[00:39] <hardboot> although lxde and razor are to pretty much
[00:39] <hardboot> lots of little desktops/wms/des, too bad the devs couldn't work together
[00:39] <hardboot> lxde-razor is great because both devs seem competent so with the manpower merged, mmm
[00:44] <Hutch> enlightenment offers great choice  but it's a mess for noobs to negotiate and the best example Bodhiuses a non logical package management system imo
[00:45] <holstein> you can use whatever you like.. synaptic, etc..
[00:45] <Hutch> Bottom line these days is most people don't want to have to install an os on their machines
[00:46] <hardboot> heh, people reinstall windows all the time
[00:46] <Hutch> They don't do it on mobiles or tablets so it has to be simple
[00:47] <Subroutine> Hutch: most people have no clue about technology
[00:47] <hardboot> gnome is simple gone autism, why can't i sjut drag the bar and bits around, why must i script everything in extensions
[00:47] <hardboot> according to the education department computer literacy has gone DOWN
[00:47] <Hutch> same for cinnamon
[00:48] <Hutch> I read that Subroutine. Where are you from?
[00:48] <hardboot> cinnamon is gnome gone casua
[00:48] <holstein> people buy computers.. not many install operating systems
[00:48] <Hutch> yup
[00:48] <Subroutine> Hutch: slovakia
[00:49] <hardboot> A lot of people know have reinstalled windows at some point :P
[00:49] <holstein> hardboot: not really
[00:49] <Hutch> and they're cheap enough to be disposable/replaceable
[00:49] <holstein> hardboot: they purchased the machine with windows..
[00:49] <holstein> we should take this to the appropriate channel.. #lubuntu-offtopic
[00:50] <Hutch> soz I thought it was.my bad
[01:34] <harmem> has anybody had any luck with getting 3d acceleration working on a powerbook5,6? 2D seems to be working flawlessly (absolutely no slowdown in the UI etc) but I keep getting this with glxgears http://pastie.org/pastes/8606534/text
[01:34] <hardboot> which gpu?
[01:34] <hardboot> ahh r300
[01:38] <hardboot> I have that gpu and it works on x86, must be some ppc bug
[01:38] <hardboot> It used to work on PPC fine
[01:39] <hardboot> it sounds like a lib is missing
[01:42] <harmem> I tried rerolling my own mesa in /opt/xorg and updating LIBGL_DRIVERS_PATH appropriately but it just complained about swrast suddenly having the same undefined symbol in addition to r300
[01:42] <harmem> hmm ok
[01:43] <hardboot> >libGL: Can't open configuration file
[01:44] <hardboot> afiak a config should be auto generated
[01:46] <harmem> using driconf to make one doesn't make a difference, and afaik drirc is the important one it expects
[01:47] <harmem>  /drirc*
[01:47] <harmem> ugh, /etc/drirc*
[02:14] <koell> global menu for lubuntu/lxde would be cool!
[02:14] <koell> any new features in 14.04?
[02:26] <bkm_> i got xrander to work with my two-headed video card. (i specified a virtual desktop in xorg.conf) i now have one screen with the lubuntu window manager and the other with openbook. also, synergy only knows about one of these two monitors. is there a more lubuntu-specific way to get multi-head cards to show a continuous deskspace? I would settle for just having the same window manager on each monitor
[03:21] <hardboot> It's funny, the only problem with lubuntu 14.04 is there's 2 wifi icons, and i can't figure out why
[03:21] <hardboot> everything else works fine
[03:35] <Unit193> Kind of sounds like Debian 728527.
[03:36] <Unit193> But, you should have the proper version of openbox.
[03:38] <hardboot> Fixed in versions openbox/3.5.2-5, openbox/3.5.2-6
[03:39] <hardboot> well, i'm running 3.5.2-6, it ain't fixed
[03:39] <hardboot> must be some other cause, or a regression, or a conflicty thing
[03:39] <ianorlin> is this in trusty?
[03:39] <hardboot> ya
[03:39] <ianorlin> with network monitors
[03:40] <hardboot> well there's 2 open, 1 installed, so somewhere it's being launched a second time
[03:41] <ianorlin> bug 1256434
[03:42] <hardboot> looks like it's been figured out https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxpanel/+bug/1256434/comments/6
[03:42] <hardboot> i'll jsut fix it manually
[03:42] <hardboot> although it does bring up a good question - which sould be launching it?
[03:43] <hardboot> OH LORDY
[03:43] <hardboot> STEAM BUG
[03:43] <hardboot> 100 tray icons
[03:43] <hardboot> I kid you not
[03:44] <hardboot> ok i lied there's 40 icons, hmm
[03:44] <hardboot> hmm they're all tied together
[03:44] <hardboot> maybe sdl bug
[03:46] <hardboot> ah-ha, it's some weird glx bug in nouveau, it doesn't happen on nvidia' propritary drivers, odd quirk
[04:06] <nitus> Hi all. long time windows user, still a linux newb but using it ever more frequently thanks to lubuntu and almost at the point in entry level where it's all going to click
[04:06] <nitus> but not today
[04:06] <nitus> accidentally picked nexus 7 from the login menu
[04:07] <nitus> black screen with a mouse cursor. recovery mode didn't help much. on livecd atm
[04:08] <nitus> wait , can't I just chroot and bring up the same selection menu? and de-select nexus 7
[04:08] <Unit193> Log out?
[04:08] <nitus> heh
[04:08] <nitus> how?
[04:09] <nitus> I always just hit the colorful button
[04:09] <nitus> tried to bring up  terminal but it wasn't happening
[04:11] <Unit193> Alright, well user-session is in /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
[04:11] <Unit193> Dose the user autologin or something then?
[04:12] <nitus> chroot newb too of course, I do that same as I do networking? "sudo cp /etc/resolv.conf /var/chroot/etc/resolv.conf" or whatnot
[04:13] <nitus> yeah, although I have tried repeatedly to bring back a login since it gains nothing to not have one
[04:13] <Unit193> vim, nano, sed...  Why chroot?
[04:14] <nitus> because I just learned about it and used it the last time things went haywire, and I don't know what those other things are
[04:18] <nitus> while I'm at it, I should also ask whether there's some package or  other that can keep me from booting to a black screen  due to some seemingly insignificant installation that synaptic nor apt-get indicates will wreak havok
[04:18] <nitus> as I use lubuntu more routinely and start settling in and tuning my environment it seems to happen all too often
[04:19] <nitus> needs a "don't hurt me" difficulty setting
[04:19] <Unit193> What?
[04:22] <nitus> oh, broken packages one time. lowlatency kernel another time . . . after removal kept booting to  nonexistant lowlatency kernel despite no trace remaining from inside lubuntu, finally tried reinstalling all the lowlatency packages and then removing them, and it finally got rid of it
[04:23] <nitus> I know, it must all sound like the most elementary and obvious sort of thing, but there's a bit of a learning curve coming from a lifetime of microsoft
[04:25] <nitus> and lubuntu is the most newb-friendly distro I have tried to date
[04:25] <nitus> back in a bit, googling vim, nano, and sed
[04:26] <nitus> oh. you mean to say it's just a text file
[04:26] <nitus> set newb mode = true
[04:30] <nitus> autologic-user=false?
[04:32] <nitus> it says user-session=Lubuntu
[04:32] <nitus> is there another related one somewhere going to nexus 7?
[04:41] <nitus> actually, I never managed to log in at all. I was in the switch-user dialogue and thought, "hey, why not try nexus 7, ought to be interesting!"
[04:45] <nitus> just keeps going back there because I don't know how to properly reboot or shut down and the power button sleeps or something. I wonder if simply pulling the plug would do it. when I get back in I am backing this thing up so I can solve these little problems the alexandrian way
[04:48] <holstein> nitus: you shouldnt have the lowlatency kernel..
[04:49] <holstein> nitus: you might want to reinstall, and try and keep it simple.. just run lubuntu stock for a bit.. try and get used to the system a bit more slowly
[04:50] <nitus> "lowlatency, oooh! sounds good!" like it would be faster or something
[04:50] <holstein> nitus: no
[04:50] <nitus> got rid of it almost immediately, it just took awhile for it to realize that it had been removed
[04:50] <holstein> nitus: its for lowlatency audio.. thats it.. for 2 cases in audio production. software synths, and realtime effect processing
[04:50] <nitus> booting via recovery mode
[04:50] <nitus> yeah I lerned that when I finally actually read the documentation
[04:50] <holstein> nitus: you dont need it.. and shouldnt install *anything* just because it "sounds good"
[04:51] <holstein> you really shouldnt need to install much of anything at first.. usually, i grab the browser i prefer, and the audio player, and maybe libreoffice
[04:51] <nitus> plus the numerous cautionary web articles describing newbs doing exactly the same thing for the same reasons
[04:52] <holstein> you dont have to be cautious about it.. play around if you like. but, you will likely break things
[04:52] <holstein> try running an installation in virtualbox.. you can save snapshots.. or, wreck a live environment
[04:53] <holstein> !arm
[04:53] <holstein> AFAIK, the nexus7 is arm
[04:54] <nitus> I'm on the proper kernel now, anyway. I started out just using linux as a backup/recovery platform for my windows install, then I discovered that lubuntu could give old hardware a new life (people are always bringing me old laptops and whatnot to install windows on. sometimes windows just isn't happening. lubuntu is great
[04:54] <holstein> enjoy!..
[04:55] <nitus> runs quite comfortably on higher end hardware as well, of course. graduated from livecd to persistent usb last year, then decided I needed a permanent install
[04:55] <nitus> been using it full time recently on account of hard bricking my samsung
[04:55] <Unit193> Sounded like you just missed update-grub somehow.
[04:56] <nitus> yeah something like that, but I wonde why the recovery menu option didn't do it
[04:57] <nitus> many more options at my fingertips here than in windows for the phone situation
[04:57] <nitus> tempted to smash apart some old electronics and cobble together a simple jtag connector
[05:01] <nitus> people already bringing me phones for quite awhile now, to root or unlock, but it doesn't look like it would take a huge investment to upgrade myself to unbrick-guy. aside from it being a nuisance when everybody is always on you to fix some hardware or software
[05:01] <nitus> always amazes me how few people seem to know what google actually does
[05:01] <nitus> on that note: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1252435
[05:04] <nitus> except I'm on 13.10
[05:04] <nitus> mind you I get nags about some packge issue or another when running apt-get update
[05:04] <nitus> at the end it helpfully tells me to "run apt-get update to resolve the issue"
[05:05] <Unit193> Sources out of date, yep.
[05:07] <nitus> something about duplicates, ever since adding getdeb and playdeb
[05:11] <nitus> of two or three items in main. just shrugged and figure it will resolve itself eventually. doesn't seem to interfere conspicuously with anything
[05:12] <nitus> unless my current problem is related
[05:12] <nitus> used to have it on always ask. I guess next up is "default'
[05:15] <nitus> first I'm going to see if the chroot method works, like it did with a few other times I buggered things. mayb I can just pop up the switch user dialogue and pick something that works
[05:17] <nitus> I'm actually surprised at how exciting it is now that it's starting to click, how I can customize everything and do all this stuff that mere months ago seemed impenetrably arcane
[05:19] <nitus> pretty soon I'll be compiling my own software and other nerdy stuff. I had no idea it was so easy
[05:20] <Unit193> To change the config file you really don't need to chroot...
[05:20] <nitus> but which one?
[05:21] <nitus> lightdm.conf is fine
[05:22] <Unit193> Ah.
[05:23] <Unit193> Then delete/change ~/.dmrc
[05:25] <nitus> looking
[05:25] <nitus> four or five year ago, I asked a friend to recommend a distro that would serve as a useful introtuction to linux. he gave me some old slackware iso that sent me scurrying back to windows
[05:25] <nitus> and it was windows ME
[05:27] <nitus> oh, duh, show hidden
[05:30] <nitus> that should do it . . .
[05:30] <nitus> thanks much
[05:31] <nitus> brb
[06:32] <sgo11> hi, after running lxpanelctl restart, I lost my desktop icons. I think they are managed by pcmanfm, right? how to get them back? thanks.
[08:11] <Unit193> sgo11: Yes, pcmanfm runs the desktop.  Did you check to see if it was still running?
[08:12] <sgo11> Unit193, I am not sure how to run that desktop by pcmanfm. It's not running. when I run pcmanfm, just the folder manager comes out. thanks.
[08:25] <Unit193> pcmanfm --desktop --profile lubuntu
[09:34] <sgo11> Unit193, just saw your message. thanks a lot.
[09:35] <Unit193> Sure
[10:34] <opticals> Does anyone else get two wireless icons on lxpanel?
[10:48] <Unit193> Might want to say 14.04
[10:48] <opticals> yeah sorry :P
[10:49] <opticals> Just reported it launchpad and it seems my eyes arent the blame :P
[11:08] <Unit193> Yep, known bug.
[16:10] <Foars> Having issues updating. sudo apt-get update: http://pastebin.com/5kATrgK7
[17:02] <holstein> Foars1: looks to me like you have mixed sources
[17:02] <holstein> Foars1: you are using ppa's from quantal and raring. i would expect issues
[17:02] <Foars> Yes, may that be because I'm still on Lubuntu 12.10?
[17:02] <holstein> i would purge all ppa's if you are having issues
[17:03] <Foars> How do I purge all them?
[17:03] <holstein> Foars: confirm what you are on.. you have mixed sources
[17:03] <holstein> !ppa
[17:03] <holstein> !ppa-purge
[17:06] <holstein> Foars: with many of those issues, i find its easier to just reinstall.. a fresh install typically takes 8 minutes.. depending on how messed up your sources are, this could take a while to "fix", and may not be repairable
[17:07] <Foars> Hmmm.
[17:11] <Foars> Alrigh then.
[17:11] <Foars> Thank you holstein.
[18:01] <leszek> hi
[21:53] <hardboot> Well I've been running 14.04 for a while and it seems ok, the only issue is about 2/3 of the nviida driver packages are broken
[21:59] <ianorlin> I can't tell exactly what it means by broken?
[22:03] <hardboot> compat, and the packages themselves being broken
[22:04] <hardboot> 30x works but older and newer are broken
[22:04] <koell> does someone know a good application to rip blu rays to my hard drive? i would like to backup them and play in home network
[22:05] <hardboot> vlc can play/rip them if you have a bluray key,
[22:05] <koell> Ive heard of makemkv. what is a blu ray key?
[22:06] <hardboot> makemkv works fine on lder bds
[22:06] <hardboot> i've used it before
[22:09] <koell> hardboot: and newer one doesnt work anymore?
[22:09] <koell> hardboot: how to get such br key?
[22:10] <hardboot> koell: lightdm doesn't even want to start
[22:10] <hardboot> whoops wrong convo
[22:10] <koell> xD
[22:10] <hardboot> It's funny how AMD's drivers have prgressed so much that I know have more problems with nVidia
[22:11] <hardboot> AMD is still slow on linux though :-/
[22:13] <koell> didnt really need such graphic power in linux, because gaming still sucks anyway
[22:13] <hardboot> There's quite a few native games, and a ton run in wine
[22:13] <hardboot> Probally the best native is Metro, it's a proper AAA game
[22:16] <hardboot> Some of those 13 SteamBoxes look nice
[22:17] <hardboot> Gaming computers for console prices
[22:17] <koell> they r available now?
[22:17] <hardboot> Not yet
[22:18] <koell> there's no better game than gta 5 online atm :D
[22:20] <hardboot> gta4 modded looks better though :P
[22:23] <koell> its not all about how it looks. graphics is overrated
[22:32] <hardboot> which is why i liked 3/vice/san more than 4/5
[23:18] <bkm_> i have xrandr working with a virtual display defined in an xorg.conf file. one monitor has a lubuntu window manager while the other has an openbook manager. can i make these the same somehow?