[02:00] <Guest91954> yo
[07:04] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:09] <foobarry> morn
[07:10] <foobarry> AlanBell: what does rooting it give you? i have one on the way
[07:35] <MartijnVdS> you can read books with extra privileges?
[07:37] <foobarry> "press this button to find out whodunnit"
[07:41] <MooDoo> press left button to go to page 45 and go down the tunnel, press right button to go to page 25 and see who picked up the glass ;)
[07:41] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: choose-your-own ebook adventure?
[07:41] <MartijnVdS> now that I'd pay for :)
[07:43] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: new business venture :D
[07:44] <foobarry> aren't they called hyperlinks now?
[07:44] <AlanBell> foobarry: I can telnet into it and do stuff
[07:45] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: sure you could use hyperlinks to get the effect..
[08:03] <popey> i "rooted" my nook, then put it back to normal once I realised I didn't need it rooted but it worked just fine without rooting
[08:05] <diplo> Morning all
[08:05] <MooDoo> morning diplo popey
[08:09] <diplo> Colder but drier this morning! yay
[08:09] <diplo> How're we all ?
[08:12] <MooDoo> Not to bad to be honest, replaced hard drive in laptop the other day, re-installed all went ok
[08:21] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: lost any data from the old one?
[08:23] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I backed up to my server before replaced, not a failure just a replacement 160gb to 1tb
[08:24] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: so it's still spinning rust? :)
[08:25] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I've gone from dual boot win8/ubuntu to pure ubuntu
[08:29] <diplo> My laptop at home is pure ubuntu, want to check whether I can stick an SSD in it but not sure how to find out yet
[08:30] <MooDoo> diplo: it should, it's still the same connector.
[08:34] <ali1234> unless the laptop is IDE
[08:34] <MooDoo> ali1234: wow laptops still have ide?
[08:34] <ali1234> i have one with IDE yeah
[08:35] <ali1234> if it had IDE when it was made chances are it still has IDE now :)
[08:35] <MooDoo> ali1234: old laptop?
[08:35] <ali1234> yeah it's a second generation netbook
[08:58] <diplo> Sorry guys, phone
[08:59] <MooDoo> diplo: god dammit ;)
[08:59] <diplo> Nah it is a Sata interface, I tried a hybrid I bought for someone in there
[08:59] <diplo> Didn't recognise it, not sure if a hybrid would cause any different issues
[09:10] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:15] <foobarry> i would like a non-kindle ereader to be able to read kindle books without having to strip drm
[09:16] <bigcalm> You want the moon on a stick, that's what you want
[09:16] <foobarry> is that too much?
[09:16] <bigcalm> A little early 90s reference there
[09:16] <foobarry> it could be android with teh kidnel app
[09:17] <popey> foobarry: nook can run the kindle app
[09:18] <foobarry> yeah, i heard that was the case
[09:18] <popey> i ran it on mine for a bit, not optimal though
[09:19] <mapps> urgh cant get rid of this cold/flu ..wakeup still got this sore throat =[
[09:20] <foobarry> i suppose it will teach me to strip drm from my kindle books straight away, which uis good practice anyway
[09:20] <foobarry> my problem is that i wanted a kindle but i'm a cheapskate
[09:21] <foobarry> even then, kindle can't open epub..
[09:22] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
[09:22] <mapps> morn
[09:22] <MooDoo> morning
[09:24] <diplo> foobarry: Calibre -> Strip DRM -> Library -> Sync to device ( Auto converts ) no issue ?
[09:27] <popey> diplo: does it convert to epub?
[09:29] <foobarry> "strip DRM" is not a simple step AFAIrecall
[09:29] <foobarry> it wasn't a single button
[09:31] <dwatkins> if only it were always that simple
[09:32] <Myrtti> foobarry: that's the reason I haven't gone and gotten the kindle or any other 'branded' eReader that has a lockdown to Kindle
[09:32] <Myrtti> I do have an old Sony eReader but I've not used it for years really
[09:33] <dwatkins> I e-mail myself PDFs of books to my Kindle.
[09:33] <dwatkins> Generally when I already have the paper version, of course.
[09:33] <foobarry> pdf reading sucks doesn't it? unless on a tablet
[09:33] <dwatkins> Depends on the book, sometimes they convert fairly well (put 'convert' in the e-mail subject)
[09:36] <foobarry> probably my vmware book will not..
[09:36] <foobarry> actually thats already an amz...it sucks :)
[09:37] <dwatkins> I was considering buying the C bible, got it on Kindle but it was still pretty expensive.
[09:38] <MooDoo> got my online vmware course come through finally :D
[09:44] <Myrtti> come on little charger, come to mama
[09:45] <Myrtti> (http://www.amazon.de/dp/B00DQ1QLFS/)
[09:46] <MartijnVdS> whoa
[09:46] <MartijnVdS> if only laptops could charge from USB :)
[09:46] <Myrtti> I ... MUST .... HAVE ... PPPPOOOOWWWAAARRRRHHH
[09:47] <Myrtti> I forgot the EU plug of my two-way usb charger to UK
[09:48] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: you can plug EU plugs into UK sockets, or do you need the other one?
[09:49] <Myrtti> MartijnVdS: I had one of those travel ones that you can take the prongs out and switch - I took the UK plug off, left it into my bedside drawer and forgot to check I had packed the EU one into my backpack
[09:49] <Myrtti> so I now have a charger without prongs in Finland, and three or four different kinds of prongs in UK
[09:50] <shauno> sounds like a great excuse for new toys ;)
[09:50] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: ah, the worst possible "combination" of parts (except for "just the prongs", maybe :)
[09:52] <Myrtti> shauno: well, a) the Anker one uses the standard cable instead of proprietary prongs, and b) at worst times I have three phones and a tablet to charge
[09:53] <Myrtti> so yes, I recon it was a good reason to get new toys, because even with the two way charger I had to make a judgement call every evening which device to charge
[09:53] <shauno> yeah, I spotted the figure-8 plug there.  I always look for those, very handy - it means if all else fails, I can jam it together with a spare plug off any of my apple toys, and turn it into a wall-wart
[09:54] <Myrtti> I wish I had known those exist a year ago, would've ordered one then
[09:55] <Myrtti> this is what I've had so far http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0063EBPXS/
[09:55] <MartijnVdS> https://twitter.com/chris__martin/status/420992421673988096
[09:56] <shauno> that said, I wish I could find adaptors that use the round-style eu plug. sticking the narrow one into a round hole always feels very flimsy
[09:57] <MartijnVdS> shauno: the round-style plug is only for devices that need ground and require more power
[09:58] <Myrtti> we bought from Lidl an extension cord that has slots for both the round grounded ones and the slim ones
[09:58] <MartijnVdS> shauno: I'm assuming you mean "the narrow one" is "europlug" and "the round one" is Schuko
[09:59] <shauno> yeah, that's the ones
[09:59] <Myrtti> if D would change the input plug to a UK one then I could be happy with all my Finnish kit
[09:59] <Myrtti> which reminds me of the need to pack my SAD lamp
[09:59] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: you could install one or two UK sockets in Finland, and/or several EU sockets in the UK :)
[09:59] <shauno> having my laptop's brick hanging off a europlug just doesn't feel like it's going to stay there
[10:00] <Myrtti> MartijnVdS: no need to install UK sockets to Finland, I'm moving out :-/
[10:00] <MartijnVdS> shauno: really? guess it's down to what you're used to :)
[10:00] <shauno> well, I'm used to the UK sockets which were clearly designed to outlast the human race :D
[10:02] <MartijnVdS> shauno: I've had bad connections with those too though
[10:02] <foobarry> never...must be a problem with the wall :D
[10:03] <foobarry> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/4422853/onewheel-the-self-balancing-electric-skateboard
[10:04] <foobarry> unicycle for the modern era
[10:04] <popey> hipsters
[10:05] <shauno> it's a shame it's getting harder and harder to find bare plugs though.  my old trick was to pick up the cheapest power strip I could find, cut the foreign plug off and pop a fresh one on
[10:07] <shauno> I have 6 US outlets and 4 schucko outlets screwed under my desk for a surprisingly low price that way
[10:09] <directhex> ... 230 volt US outlets?
[10:09] <foobarry> !info calibre
[10:09] <shauno> heh, yes :)
[10:10] <shauno> almost everything uses switching supplies that are okay with that these days.  anything that does - well I was probably going to blow it up sooner or later
[10:10] <shauno> er, anything that doesn't, rather
[10:18] <ali1234> switch mode power supplies are basically magic
[10:21] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:22] <diplo> shauno: Electrical Wholesalers have them in bucket loads ( I work inside of one ) andused to work for one
[10:22] <diplo> Plugs that is
[10:25] <bigcalm> diplo: you work inside a bucket?
[10:28] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: pronounced "Bouquet"?
[10:30] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: oh my god, you didn't have to suffer Keeping up Appearances, did you?
[10:30] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: we did
[10:31] <diplo> bigcalm:  :)
[10:32] <Myrtti> yyyyyeeaaahh.
[10:33] <MooDoo> arrrrghghh
[10:33] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: what are you pirating now? ;)
[10:33] <MooDoo> lol :) I don't pirate.....
[10:34] <MartijnVdS> yet you talked like one there :)
[10:34] <MooDoo> I'm not wearing my eye patch so it doesn't count
[10:40] <MartijnVdS> 8-)
[10:40] <foobarry> whats the accepted way of installing recent version of calibre ?
[10:40] <MartijnVdS> apt-get install calibre ?
[10:40] <foobarry> old version
[10:40] <foobarry> no ppa
[10:40] <MartijnVdS> no idea.. get the deb from a newer Ubuntu?
[10:40] <foobarry> still old :P
[10:40] <foobarry> sudo python -c "import sys; py3 = sys.version_info[0] > 2; u = __import__('urllib.request' if py3 else 'urllib', fromlist=1); exec(u.urlopen('http://status.calibre-ebook.com/linux_installer').read()); main()"
[10:40] <MartijnVdS> EWWW
[10:40] <foobarry> yeah
[10:41] <foobarry> and updates?
[10:41] <MooDoo> https://launchpad.net/~n-muench/+archive/calibre
[10:41] <MartijnVdS> What's wrong with the package?
[10:41] <MooDoo> not this one?
[10:41] <foobarry> i'm on 12.04
[10:41] <foobarry> just checking if this works
[10:41] <popey> yeah, get it from upstream
[10:41] <popey> he updates really frequently
[10:41] <popey> nice chap
[10:42] <foobarry> latest is 1.18 i think
[10:42] <foobarry> he has 1.14...
[10:42]  * foobarry reads chagelog
[10:42] <foobarry> only 1 month old
[10:42] <foobarry> ta, i'll do that
[10:44] <foobarry> 1.15 has some intereesting new features
[10:44] <foobarry> A new book editor, capable of editing files in the EPUB and AZW3 (Kindle) formats
[10:44] <foobarry> Right click on any book in calibre and choose 'Edit Book', to edit e-books in the EPUB and AZW3 formats.
[10:44] <foobarry> i wonder what kind of income the guy makes
[10:45] <popey> he quit his day job
[10:45] <popey> based on donations alone
[10:47] <foobarry> argh no precise ppa
[10:48] <foobarry> ah he has another one, thats a bit (too) older
[10:48] <bigcalm> Is there an imprecise one?

[10:49] <bigcalm> I should go back to my code
[10:49] <MartijnVdS> hmmm code
[10:50]  * MartijnVdS writes some more tests
[10:52]  * foobarry does more battle with IBM
[10:54] <bigcalm> popey: so, you like cats eh?
[10:55] <foobarry> wow calibre interface is still ugly
[10:56] <foobarry> needs complete overhaul
[11:00] <foobarry> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10153723789980204 wake skating in surrey
[11:01] <MooDoo> foobarry: looks good not impressed that people want to risk playing in that kinda water :S
[11:01] <foobarry> sure they know what they are doing
[11:02] <MooDoo> yeah I guess
[11:02] <foobarry> surrey is just wet with puddles rather than cornwall type floods
[11:02] <foobarry> although the river overflowed in town centre of guildford
[11:03] <bigcalm> I imagine that it improved Guildford
[11:03] <foobarry> :o
[11:03] <bigcalm> Hehe
[11:04] <bigcalm> I don't have the best of memories from there, sorry
[11:04] <foobarry> must be a super snob if you are snobby about g'ford
[11:04] <foobarry> because g'ford people are snobby about everywhere else
[11:04] <foobarry> (in my experience)
[11:06] <popey> foobarry: we asked the author when we interviewed him about the UI
[11:06] <popey> he said basically you're not target audience
[11:07] <foobarry> "windows 98 users"
[11:08] <foobarry> not being ungrateful but poosbily hes a coder rather than a UI designer
[11:09] <MartijnVdS> separate frontend vs backend would work for me.. I can write my own frontend ;)
[11:09] <diplo> My dad uses it without issue, so it works I guess and dad has never complained, I don't mind the UI
[11:09] <foobarry> its the worst UI i can think of
[11:11] <Myrtti> popey: who's the target audience then
[11:12] <diplo> I guess people like my dad, he isn't technical at all and just got on and used it
[11:12] <foobarry> it's unintuitive
[11:13] <diplo> not complained what it looks like, but as per you guys it wasn't a wow factor when I first used it
[11:13] <diplo> Well it must be fairly intuitive otherwise the non techical wouldn't be able to use it, it doesn't work how a technical person expects it to is probably a better case
[11:16] <popey> yeah, exactly
[11:16] <popey> non-techy people, many of whom bought an e-reader before a pc
[11:18] <MartijnVdS> I still think the interface could be better for both techies *and* non-techies
[11:20] <popey> i agree ☻
[11:22] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:23] <foobarry> like this mockup http://dribbble.com/joshkennedy
[11:23] <MooDoo> AlanBell: going for code club community manager? ;)
[11:23] <foobarry> although if there's an ibooks app it probavbly already looks like this
[11:25] <AlanBell> MooDoo: nope, I am too grumpy :)
[11:25] <MooDoo> AlanBell: ha ha ha ha
[11:25] <MartijnVdS> also, you don't say "community" often enough I guess
[11:26] <Myrtti> I thought that was mr. Bacon's line
[11:26] <bashrc> community community community...
[11:27] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: I thought jono said it enough for everyone
[11:27] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: isn't that because he's the community manager ?
[11:27] <Myrtti> I assume he didn't get the job just because sabdfl likes his face
[11:28] <AlanBell> it was the beard
[11:28]  * popey can't help but think codeclub saw my tweet this morning ☻
[11:29] <AlanBell> yeah, I think you have been inspirational
[11:31] <MooDoo> popey: apparently you like cats :)
[11:31] <AlanBell> popey hugs all the phablets
[11:33] <mapps> hm
[11:33] <mapps> hope this escape plan's better than arnies other recent film
[11:34] <neuro> last stand wasn't *that* bad
[11:34] <neuro> (morning all)
[11:34] <mapps> hey neuro
[11:34] <mapps> hmm i didnt enjoy it at all..maybe i expected too much
[11:34] <neuro> i didn't :)
[11:35] <mapps> watched lone survivor yesterday and wolf of wall st both were good:)
[11:38] <MooDoo> I watched the history of mojang/minecraft, which was quite interesting, clever man, rich man :D
[11:38] <mapps> lone survivor was very good..wolf of wall st's pretty long 2hrs44!!!!
[11:38] <mapps> id have hated to be in the cinema for that long
[11:38] <mapps> uncomfortable seats..cant pause it etc ugh
[11:39] <neuro> i think someone has just revealed how they consume content ... :)
[11:39] <mapps> netflix or lovefilm clearly
[11:39] <mapps> ;p
[11:39] <mapps> although perhaps that excuse wont fly in this case:)
[11:40] <neuro> indeed :)
[11:41] <mapps> been having terrible sleep recently..got this annoying cold/flu i reckon i must be coughing and waking up sleep 1/2hrs wakeup etc managed to sleep for i think abou 5hrs continuous 430-930am then wokeup and cant get back to sleep!!
[11:42] <neuro> night nurse
[11:42] <mapps> gonna get some nytol / strepsils / some other stuff and just hope that fixes it :D annoying thing is you cant buy too much of that stuff they limit it..so i never have any left when i need it
[11:42] <mapps> ah yea
[11:42] <mapps> night nurse good idea too
[11:46] <diplo> Go into one shop, then go to the next and buy the extra, or... go to tescos.. go to one line and then walk back in and go to another
[11:46] <diplo> I've had to do that before
[11:46] <diplo> Or just go to a proper pharmacy
[11:50] <mapps> yea il have to do that..just a bit annoying :) else il need some nytol and have none left;/
[11:52] <bigcalm> Rackspace have a sense of humour, who's have guessed it?
[11:52] <bigcalm> SMTP -> FROM SERVER:250 Great success
[11:52] <bigcalm> CLIENT -> SMTP: quit
[11:52] <bigcalm> SMTP -> FROM SERVER:221 See you later. Yours truly, Mailgun
[11:52] <mapps> lol what are you trying to do
[11:54] <bigcalm> Not trying, succeeding - Rackspace cloud accounts have access to Mailgun. Giving us 50,000 emails per month
[11:57] <knightwi1e> hey everyone
[11:58] <mapps> hey knightwi1e
[11:58] <MooDoo> hullo
[11:59] <neuro> bigcalm: o rly
[11:59] <knightwi1e> hey MooDoo mapps
[11:59] <bigcalm> neuro: rly
[12:00] <neuro> i'm annoyed we're not a rackspace customer now
[12:00] <neuro> that would be useful
[12:01] <bigcalm> It even has full logging of outgoing emails in the web interface
[12:01] <bigcalm> Yay for debugging
[12:01] <neuro> yeah, i've been looking at it to replace our existing mailshot infra
[12:01] <mapps> what do you use mailgun for
[12:02] <neuro> iirc it's cheaper than mailchimp
[12:02] <bigcalm> mapps: in this instance, sending email from one of our test servers
[12:02] <mapps> but couldnt you do that without mailgun
[12:03] <bigcalm> Things have a tendency to fall over until you use a recognised mail server
[12:03] <bashrc> exim worked for me
[12:04] <shauno> sending mail is easy as pie, but most the planet will refuse it until you meet a checklist as long as your arm.  Using a relay that's already jumped those hoops saves a lot of trouble on ad-hoc servers
[12:04] <bigcalm> Sure, but the server you're sending from might end up in a spam list for some reason. Or a new server uses a recycled email address that is already in a black list
[12:04] <bashrc> http://freedombone.uk.to/#sec-4.10
[12:05] <bigcalm> What shauno said
[12:07] <shauno> I had a mess a few months ago when gmail started requiring rdns on ipv6 connections, where it hadn't previously.  so even once it's working, it can still explode
[12:09] <TwistedLucidity> Hmm...myself and some friends are in the process of setting up our own email servers. Even using a realy (VirignMedia, run by Google) isn't reliable. Emails get silently dropped.
[12:10]  * neuro just did a mailgun quote
[12:10] <neuro> ouch
[12:10] <TwistedLucidity> s/realy/relay
[12:11] <neuro> cheaper than mailchimp though
[12:15] <bigcalm> neuro: see if SuperMat1 can get you a discount ;)
[12:16] <neuro> hehe
[12:20] <SuperMatt> I won't be able to get discounts for anyone but myself
[12:20] <neuro> cop out :)
[12:21] <SuperMatt> people keep asking me for discounts :(
[12:21] <SuperMatt> I haven't even started yet!
[12:23] <Seeker`> SuperMatt: what is it you will bedoing?
[12:23] <SuperMatt> I will be a Linux Adminstrator Level 1
[12:23] <neuro> LEVEL 1 ... FIGHT!
[12:24] <Seeker`> SuperMatt: does that mean "someone who gets coffee"?
[12:24] <SuperMatt> meaning I'll be helping people with their problems, and helping design their infrastructure
[12:24] <SuperMatt> I hope not
[12:24] <neuro> it means you have to automate the coffee making and retrieval process
[12:26] <MooDoo> https://major.io/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/boromir_rackspace_job.jpg hee hee
[12:26] <MartijnVdS> HTCPCP ?
[12:27] <neuro> HTTPGPGTLSLMAOGTFROFLCOPTER?
[12:27] <MartijnVdS> neuro: RFC 2324
[12:27] <neuro> RFC UR MOM
[12:28] <SuperMatt> MooDoo: turns out that was wrong ;)
[12:29] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: ?
[12:31] <SuperMatt> one does simply get a job there
[12:31] <shauno> MartijnVdS: that's horrible - far too specific to pots.  how american.  I need properties for shot time, pre-infusion, temp, etc ..
[12:31] <MartijnVdS> shauno: it has a response code for teapots
[12:32] <shauno> but .. but .. my espresso machine.  my precious!
[12:32] <Myrtti> Moka pots ftw
[12:33]  * MartijnVdS just has a kettle and a tea pot
[12:33] <shauno> there's actually a lot of people mating arduinos to the machine I have.  <3 toys
[12:37] <neuro> output from the world's most childish browser extension: http://www.flickr.com/groups/cloud-to-butt/
[12:37] <neuro> a chrome extension that changes all instances of "the cloud" in a page to "my butt"
[12:38] <MooDoo> lol
[12:38] <MartijnVdS> neuro: why yours?
[12:38] <neuro> not mine, "mine"
[12:38] <bashrc> is your butt in the cloud?
[12:38] <neuro> is yours?
[12:39] <bashrc> yes, I do all my back end stuff there
[12:40] <wheels123> hi hi
[12:40] <shauno> neuro: I have that installed at work.  it's fantastic when I've been away for a week and it slips my mind
[12:41] <neuro> :)
[12:54] <foobarry> why can't tradesmen ever turn up on the day you ask them?
[12:55] <popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9PdeZGWiek
[12:55] <popey> original bungle was creepy
[12:55] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Get better tradesmen
[12:55] <foobarry> +1
[12:56] <foobarry> i saw ep1 of rainbow other day
[12:57] <foobarry> i said bungle is scary
[12:57] <foobarry> father in law walked in room. said "bungle is scary"
[12:57] <foobarry> son stopped dancing and looked at us
[12:57] <foobarry> "bungle is scary"
[13:01] <bigcalm> For czajkowski http://cheezburger.com/7984699136
[13:12] <Myrtti> ih ♥ http://professorfonz.tumblr.com/tagged/my+sherlockian+knits
[13:17] <popey> syncthing is todays discovery
[13:17] <popey> tis quite nice
[13:21] <MartijnVdS> popey: what does it sync?
[13:21] <popey> whatever you put in the sync folder
[13:21] <popey> between machines
[13:21] <popey> like btsync
[13:21] <MartijnVdS> ah, that kind of sync :)
[13:22] <popey> yeah, replacement for dropbox etc
[13:22] <popey> kinda
[13:23] <wheels123> how do i auto accept java's EULA from the terminal im trying to automate the install of some pkgs
[13:25] <wheels123> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6720696/ is what im putting together
[13:26] <TwistedLucidity> Does it have to be Oracle Java? Would openjdk (or whatever it's called) suffice?
[13:27] <wheels123> as long as java plugins for firefox work im not fussed
[13:29] <TwistedLucidity> openjdk installs icedtea (plugin for Firefox). They should work OK, so long as you have no speific requirement that demands Oracle Java.
[13:29] <TwistedLucidity> Dunno if this is still valid: http://www.tikirobot.net/wp/2009/01/12/how-to-automate-installs-of-sun-java-6-on-ubuntu-using-cli/
[13:30] <TwistedLucidity> wheels123: And this: http://askubuntu.com/questions/190582/installing-java-automatically-with-silent-option
[13:31] <diplo> Just looked at syncthing popey, did you try it yet ( I see it's in early stages )
[13:31] <diplo> Might give it a go tonight at home
[13:31] <popey> i am running it now
[13:31] <popey> synced a few GB between 3 machines just fine
[13:31] <wheels123> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6720696/ also this is what im working on surely i dont need to sudo for adding every repo?
[13:31] <popey> although it can slow the machine down a bit when it's going nuts
[13:32] <TwistedLucidity> wheels123: you do I think; I've always seen in expressed that way. Not sure if sudo can accept multiple commands.
[13:33] <TwistedLucidity> You will, however, only be challenged for the password the first time.
[13:33] <popey> run the script under sudo
[13:33] <TwistedLucidity> Or that
[13:33] <popey> and remove all the sudo's from the file
[13:33] <popey> given you need sudo for every single line
[13:34] <wheels123> im sort of a noob
[13:34] <popey> out of interest why do you need oracle-java7-installer ?
[13:34] <diplo> I want to sync my parents Windows PC, was going to try rsync under cygwin - tested at work and works ok
[13:35] <shauno> if you're interested in some back-seat-driving, I'd look into 'mktemp' rather than naming /tmp/newfile.  it probably won't make an ounce of difference to you now, but it's a good habit to get into
[13:36] <wheels123> popey: some of the websites i visit use java for chat rooms ect although im sure openjdk will work fine
[13:37] <popey> i thought webupd8 had to remove oracle from their ppa
[13:37] <popey> or did they add a script which download and installs it?
[13:37] <wheels123> yep
[13:37] <wheels123> hehe
[13:37] <popey> k
[13:40] <wheels123> shauno: so how would i implament mktemp into the script im still a bit of a newb at scripting
[13:42] <shauno> usually I'd do something like MYTMPFILE=$(mktemp), and then pipe to $MYTMPFILE, mv $MYTMPFILE to the destination, etc.  it's just a tidy habit because it means you don't have predictable names that could lead to intentional or accidental collisions & such
[13:45] <popey> anyone want a laser http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Oxford-Lasers-CU10-Copper-Vapour-Lasers-x2-one-working-one-for-spares-/171211877471?
[13:49] <TwistedLucidity> popey: All you need now is a couple of sharks....
[13:49] <popey> pew pew
[13:50] <wheels123> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6720797/ made some of the edits relating to tmp file usage but idk if i wrote it correctly
[13:52] <shauno> it looks convincing :)  but feel free to completely ignore me if it's cleaner to deal with one complication at a time
[13:53] <wheels123> hehe the running under sudo bit confuses me
[13:55] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: yes then world domination will be popey's........wait no bond always arrives and messes up the bad mans plans right
[14:03] <MooDoo> hello davmor2
[14:03] <davmor2> MooDoo: hello
[14:07] <MooDoo> davmor2: how am ya geezer?
[14:08] <davmor2> MooDoo: good ta, you cockney pearly king you.  How am ya?
[14:08] <Myrtti> I totally misread that
[14:09] <Myrtti> *krhm*
[14:09] <MooDoo> davmor2: I'm fine :D
[14:09] <davmor2> Myrtti: I don't know how that could possibly be misread :D
[14:50] <daftykins> oh Sony, why do you do the things you do?
[14:51] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: because Japan?
[14:51] <daftykins> their VPCCA and VPCCB laptops use the Atheros AR3011 bluetooth chipset, only the *only* way to install the driver is before *anything* else at all (under Windows)
[14:51] <daftykins> any other point in the process and it won't work
[14:51] <daftykins> :>
[14:51] <MartijnVdS> really? wow.
[14:52] <daftykins> yep, it's a quirky one
[14:52] <foobarry> a user is asking me for a server's portal number. what's that? port number?
[14:52] <daftykins> amusingly i wrote it up on my own site and even provided the correct driver (Sony's website gives you the wrong one)
[14:52] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: probably.. what are they tring to do
[14:52] <daftykins> but i didn't realise i was working on practically the same laptop model :>
[14:53] <foobarry> either use ssh or opennx, either way, ports are the default ones
[14:53] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: how hard can it be to provide a proper driver package.. most vendors do that now
[14:53] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: not sure, they give a broadcom driver instead XD
[14:53] <daftykins> i should edit my post to reflect both models really
[14:53] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: doesn't the driver install through windows update? :)
[14:54] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: Broadcom's driver does
[14:54] <daftykins> nah it has no idea
[14:54] <daftykins> http://www.techblo.gg/?p=192
[14:55] <daftykins> whopping 100+ MB driver too
[14:55] <MartijnVdS> "Let's ship an entire custom bluetooth stack" then
[15:08] <bigcalm> A Rackspace person replied to my ticket with "Thank you for reaching out to us." - made me feel sorry for them
[15:09] <foobarry> for talking in american?
[15:10] <MooDoo> bigcalm: they wanted to get together and touch base ;)
[15:11]  * bigcalm grumbles
[15:12] <MooDoo> lol
[15:12] <bigcalm> I forgotten how to unsub from a mailman list. Anybody remember?
[15:12] <popey> look at the header
[15:12] <popey> it has the subsub email address in it
[15:12] <bigcalm> Ta :)
[15:15] <bigcalm> Yay, let there be fewer emails in this world
[15:17] <bigcalm> Removed myself from a LUG I attended once about 2 or so years ago
[15:17] <bigcalm> Wow, 2010
[15:19] <dwatkins> Just reply-to-all with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body, it won't unsubscribe you, but the responses will be fun...
[15:19] <dwatkins> ...then an admin will probably take you off the list anyway
[15:26] <bigcalm> dwatkins: seen a lot of that over the years
[15:27] <dwatkins> bigcalm: yeah, I'm also thinking of the recent Cisco and Microsoft (iirc) incidents of exponeitially increasing e-mail due to read-reciepts, reply-to-all and out-of-office automation
[15:28] <dwatkins> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/19/cisco_reply_all_email_wastes_tons_of_man_hours/ and http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/10/23/reply_all_email_storm_strikes_twice_at_cisco/
[15:31] <shauno> not entirely sure why that hits el reg; that happens *Everywhere*
[15:31] <BigRedS> I'm amazed each time there's a story like this. Do people really use their desktop mail clients to email propaganda to their customers?
[15:31] <shauno> anywhere it can happen, it has & will
[15:32] <dwatkins> I think because of the sheer size of these incidents.
[15:32] <BigRedS> well, and the expectation that MS and Cisco know how to use a computer
[16:27] <mapps> all stocked up
[16:27] <mapps> stepsils/night nurse/nytol
[16:27] <mapps> so if i can sleep tonight il just take everything :D
[16:27] <mapps> obviously..i wont really :)
[16:34] <daftykins> tut tut!
[16:34] <dwatkins> I tend to put whisky in my lemsip.
[16:37] <mapps> hm my battery on my old dell 1501 finally given up completely..red light indicator and unplug it..dies i8nstantly
[16:37] <mapps> been dyinbg a slow death for years..it'd charge to like 3% LOL
[16:38] <dwatkins> I'd replaced the battery in my Eee 901 with a larger capacity one, so when that died, I just put the original back in.
[16:38] <dwatkins> Having a netbook as a server works quite well - it uses minimal power, and has a built-in UPS.
[16:39] <mapps> hmm
[16:39] <mapps> i use my netbook mainly for irc and when i go abroad..cba taking my 15inch laptop
[16:40] <mapps> i only travel with hand luggage too..so netbooks better
[16:40] <mapps> ive got the samsung nc10 - had it years and it's pretty much run 24/7 since i got it:P
[16:59] <Azelphur> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2014/Jan/2014-01-09-165752_1046x664_scrot.png
[16:59] <Azelphur> high score! \o/
[16:59] <daftykins> :OOOO
[16:59] <daftykins> packets: rejected
[16:59] <Azelphur> lol
[17:00] <daftykins> is it actually functional?
[17:00] <daftykins> for say, IRC
[17:00] <Azelphur> yea, I'm talking to you through it now
[17:00] <daftykins> ah-har
[17:00] <daftykins> just some amazing throughput? :D
[17:00] <Azelphur> indeed
[17:01] <daftykins> right lets see if i've waited too long to accept this new boiler quote
[17:02] <daftykins> ooh yes just about :)
[17:02] <daftykins> don't really want to drop 2 grand on a boiler =/
[17:03] <daftykins> but i should get it sorted
[17:03] <dwatkins> hooray for tcp/ip
[17:04] <Azelphur> hehe
[17:15] <mapps> :(
[17:16] <Azelphur> I switched speedtest.net to kbits because I was interested to see what the actual number was
[17:17] <Azelphur> answer: 8 and falling.
[17:17] <daftykins> rawr!
[17:19] <Azelphur> answer: 6 and falling xD
[17:34] <TwistedLucidity> daftykins: If it's a decent brand of boiler and trustworthy installed; yes you do.
[17:35] <daftykins> TwistedLucidity: it'd be a Vaillant condensing boiler installed by the local company with the imaginative name - Guernsey Gas
[17:36] <TwistedLucidity> Never had a Vaillant unit, only ever Vokera and Worcester.
[17:36] <TwistedLucidity> Getting a local trader is good; they want to keep people sweet.
[17:36] <TwistedLucidity> Unlike large companies who just run a numbers game.
[17:36] <daftykins> well they're the local gas supplier too
[17:36] <daftykins> i'm getting rid of a Vokera!
[17:37] <TwistedLucidity> I will avoid talking about British Gas as this is meant to be a family friendly channel
[17:37] <daftykins> it's not holding pressure at all and i'd been advised to give up on it
[17:37] <TwistedLucidity> Vokera are OK, but everything ages out in the end.
[17:37] <TwistedLucidity> How old is it?
[17:37] <daftykins> some peeps i've had out claim 10-15yrs
[17:37] <daftykins> i've only been in this place since last March so i have no definite record
[17:37] <daftykins> it's a Vokera Linea 24
[17:38] <TwistedLucidity> That's not *that* old, but not that unusual either. And you have no way of knowing how badly it's been treated.
[17:38] <TwistedLucidity> My Vokera died after about 17 years I think.
[17:39] <TwistedLucidity> It would have been fixable *if* the parts will still made and all the mechanical/boiler parts were fine; it was just the PCB.
[17:39] <daftykins> ah, expansion vessel is gone here and after that probably the pressure release valve too
[17:39] <daftykins> so given what that'd cost for labout, easier to give up
[17:39] <daftykins> plus i don't even have any controls inside the house at the moment
[17:40] <TwistedLucidity> Yeah - sounds it. Do you qualify for the scrappage scheme/green subsidy; whatever it's called?
[17:40] <daftykins> i'm not in England so if that's a government thing nah, can't get it
[17:41] <TwistedLucidity> Ah - didn't know if it worked out there or not.
[17:43] <daftykins> we have LPG here too D:
[17:43] <daftykins> none of that real gas like in England :<
[17:44] <TwistedLucidity> Well with the way things are going, England might not have "real gas" for much longer.
[17:44] <daftykins> o rly
[17:45] <MartijnVdS> we have a huge deposit. Want some? :)
[17:45] <TwistedLucidity> If the reports are true (and I don't see any real reason to doubt them) then we are running perilously close to the wire. Add to that a chronic under investment in energy security (e.g. nuclear) and the plan to privates the security-critical fuel supply pipelines....perfect storm anyone?
[17:46] <TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: If we eat enough beans, we'll ALL have huge deposits! :-)
[17:46] <MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: they can always fire up the coal mines again :)
[17:50] <TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: I'm not totally sure of the lead time to bring a coal station back on line. We should have been investing in nuclear. Not a great solution I grant you, but the least bad (until we find a better one).
[17:50] <AlanBell> TwistedLucidity: there are several different kinds of running out, and we have more gas than other stuff really
[17:50] <AlanBell> especially if we start fracking at scale :/
[17:50] <MartijnVdS> and you can always re-nationalize ;)
[17:51] <TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: You are Ed Milliband and I claim my £5.
[17:51] <AlanBell> I think during our lifetimes there will be gas/electricity blackouts
[17:51] <AlanBell> and petrol stoppages again
[17:52] <MartijnVdS> borrow some from the US
[17:52] <bashrc> sadly, I agree.  There is little foresight on that stuff
[17:52] <TwistedLucidity> AlanBell: I think you are right. It's one thing to have the gas/petrol, it's another to be able to generate from it.
[17:52] <TwistedLucidity> Oh no...I just created a slew of project tasks and they have vanished into the ether. :-(
[17:53] <bashrc> there is often a belief that "the market" will somehow solve geological problems
[17:53] <bashrc> magical thinking
[17:53] <Azelphur> daftykins: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2014/Jan/2014-01-09-175244_1047x660_scrot.png in kbits, lol
[17:53] <TwistedLucidity> bashrc: Outsource the Earth! Then we can set an SLA. Problem solved.
[17:53] <Azelphur> been running about 40min now
[17:56] <TwistedLucidity> What really grates my carrot is things like "Going green will ruin the economy!" Well, if you are a gas supplier; yes, it might ruin your business. If you refuse to change; yes, you might have problems. If we don't invest in the tech; yes, it can't meet demand.
[17:57] <TwistedLucidity> But the "We're all doomed!" argument only holds if you flap around and don't fix the issues. "Oh look, wind power fluctuates; if only we could store it....make methanol from the excess production? Then burn that in a turbine? Or batteries? Hmm...our batteries are really terrible; let's fix batteries first."
[17:58] <TwistedLucidity> If a company is willing to adapt/invest, I'd say going green offers many opportunities over and above PR.
[17:58] <TwistedLucidity> Tesla, for example, probably won't make much money from their cars. But their batteries? Kerr-ching!
[17:59] <bashrc> the problem is that companies don't think long term
[17:59] <daftykins> Azelphur: cor!
[17:59] <Azelphur> xD
[18:01] <TwistedLucidity> bashrc: That's true. This kind of "blue sky, long term, holistic gains" type thing is probably best done by governments. I give you the Internet as but one example.
[18:01] <bashrc> if there is an achilles heel of the economy it's short termism in the face of problems requiring long term changes
[18:01] <bashrc> nuclear energy is one manifestation of that (i.e. there are no immediate profits to be made)
[18:02] <daftykins> now now everyone, converse in short-hand so Azelphur's connection can keep up! ;)
[18:03] <Azelphur> hahaha
[18:04] <TwistedLucidity> bashrc: The other things is, you have to through about 20 solutions at a problem to get (maybe) one that sticks. That's a lot of failure. Of course, knowing 19 ways to not do something isn't exactly a failure, but it will be spun as such for short-term political gain.
[18:09]  * TwistedLucidity has found his project tasks. One has no idea why they got filed there, but at least one doesn't have to re-create them!
[18:09] <TwistedLucidity> And, of course, the IT should be run on F/OSS so the entire planet can benefit!
[18:13] <MooDoo> evening all
[18:13] <TwistedLucidity> And that's why it's all MooDoo's fault.
[18:13] <TwistedLucidity> Oh, hello.
[18:13] <TwistedLucidity> :-)
[18:13] <MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: always my fault, but then it's fixed with a sudo apt-get --purge remove TwistedLucidity  ;)
[18:14] <TwistedLucidity> Pfft. :-D
[18:14] <MooDoo> :)
[18:16] <MooDoo> quiet this evening?
[18:16] <TwistedLucidity> Project management. :-(
[18:16] <MooDoo> booo
[18:16] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: almost gym o'clock
[18:17] <TwistedLucidity> Trying to estime how long it will take to do a thing when we don't have have a back-of-the-envelope design for it. I hope they like the range "2 days - 5 lifetimes"
[18:17] <MooDoo> lol
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: I know those estimates :)
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> it's why I love that at my current job we actually do 2-week sprints and *everything* is incremental :)
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> with 3-month releases
[18:19] <TwistedLucidity> Not too different here, slower cadence though. But it's bigger/breaking changes so that's not a bad thing.
[18:19] <MartijnVdS> ! http://i.imgur.com/OE0kWMt.jpg
[18:19] <TwistedLucidity> And I'm a stickler for unit tests. If there is no unit test, it's wrong. If you can't unit test it, it's designed/written wrong.
[18:20] <MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: exactly. Though old code doesn't have as many tests as I'd like
[18:21] <TwistedLucidity> Ah, but if you touch a class you make yourself responsible for it. It's kinda nasty but is seems to be working. What's scary is the amount of "stuff" that creeps out.
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: yeah. except it doesn't really work like that when clients are paying for your time :(
[18:22] <TwistedLucidity> Support calls are a cost, we don't want support calls.
[18:22] <MooDoo> we don't do telephone support, all done via a ticketing system
[18:23] <TwistedLucidity> So we sometimes decide to take a hit on the dev and make it back elsewhere. "£1 here will save £2" there kinda thing.
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> yeah, so do we. But some of the old code is *really* hard to test :)
[18:23] <TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: We have a ticketing system too, but when production goes down you get calls.
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> as in: no proper frameworks, ad-hoc object creation everywhere
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> we're fixing it, slowly
[18:23] <TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: Which is why it's getting torn apart and re-written.
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> yes! :) exactly.
[18:24] <MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: only sales have the telephone so they do take the hit occasionally
[18:24] <TwistedLucidity> I'd say now we're about 20% new code, 50% old code and 30% "shim" code gluing it all together. As the old code goes, the shims get dropped.
[18:25] <TwistedLucidity> Oh, and a fair few comments like "Yes, we know this is broken - DO NOT FIX IT!"
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> heh, I know those 8-)
[18:25] <MooDoo> lol and a let's not fix bugs but release new features
[18:26] <MartijnVdS> "The javascript frontend expects it like this, and the frontend guy is too busy fixing more urgent things"
[18:26] <TwistedLucidity> Pretty much
[18:27] <TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: Don't start me on that one, just don't. I have maintained for years we should issue "Engineering Releases" that contain nothing but bug fixes/stability updates.
[18:27] <MooDoo> lol :D
[18:28] <MooDoo> or lets release updated to live, and not tell any one, until customers complain it's not working
[18:29] <daftykins> that's ok, you just stop the ticketing system so they can't tell you!
[18:29] <MooDoo> lol
[18:29] <TwistedLucidity> And we could do it too. In fact, it would make many things soooooo much easier. Engineering Release, Feature Release, Engingeering.... This would also give the as^H^H^Hpeople in marketing the time to decide on what it is they actually want.
[18:29] <TwistedLucidity> And not change their minds part way through delivery
[18:29] <MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: that actually sounds like a great idea
[18:29] <MooDoo> make it up as you go along is the best way
[18:31] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: OK mr sales guy. Here's a git clone and a command line :P
[18:31] <TwistedLucidity> It's not even that, it's when you get a requirement in, ask what a certain bit means and get the answer "Don't know; but can you make it work?"
[18:31] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: we'll expect your pull request before the sprint closes ;)
[18:31] <MooDoo> i'm management....delegation
[18:31] <daftykins> lol
[18:32] <daftykins> employees able to pick up the phone to request others do their work \o/
[18:32] <TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: Our Pre-Sales and Sales teams can pull from what are if the nightlies should they so choose. However it has been explained to them in rather graphic detail what will be done to them should they ever call for support.
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: we're a 10-person company.. everyone knows almost everything :)
[18:33] <TwistedLucidity> Unless, of course, we've agreed to it before hand. Which often happens for big flashy demos. The whizzo feature lands in first or second build to meet the deadline, then the rest of functionality comes in later.
[18:36] <gcj> hi all, I'm seeing some very weird wireless behaviour. My card is capturing traffic for channels it's not supposed to be on. It's like it's going into scanning mode without me telling it to. Anyone know if I can see which programs are sending commands to the kernel to change channel?
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> gcj: how are you seeing that?
[19:07] <gcj> MartijnVdS, when I create a monitor interface with "iw", and listen on it with wireshark, I see beacons occasionally for a different channel (channel 11 instead of 36)
[19:07] <gcj> meanwhile the card stays associated with the AP on 802.11a channel 36 the whole time
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> well the card does scan all the time
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> wpasupplicant makes it
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> it does that to see if there's a stronger AP to connect to (preferably one that's part of the same network)
[19:09] <gcj> ah interesting, I will check wpasupplicant then
[19:10] <gcj> the problem is that it interrupts live communications such as Skype and SSH when it goes to scanning mode
[19:11] <popey> odd, never seen that
[19:11] <gcj> i can see it every few seconds with mtr
[20:31] <MartijnVdS> what kind of wifi chip is it?
[20:36]  * daftykins nudges gcj ^
[20:52] <gcj> MartijnVdS, it's an Intel(R) Centrino(R) Ultimate-N 6300 AGN
[20:53] <MartijnVdS> using the iwlwifi driver? or something older?
[20:53] <gcj> iwlwifi in 12.04
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> gcj: you might be able to teach wpasupplicant to only scan 11a channels, so it isn't "off-channel" for so long
[20:54] <gcj> the 2 minute channel switch is definitely wpa_supplicant
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> but then you'll lose some roaming features
[20:54] <gcj> yeah
[20:54] <gcj> i wish I could make it do it less often, but it's not the main problem
[20:54] <gcj> I'm seeing pauses every 10-15 seconds, most of them are not wpa_supplicant
[20:55] <gcj> disabling WMM makes them go away, but then I lose all control of QOS
[20:55] <MartijnVdS> maybe network-manager is doing its own scan?
[20:55] <gcj> how would I tell if it is?
[20:55] <MartijnVdS> gcj: open the network menu thingy, check how often it updates :)
[20:56] <MartijnVdS> maybe easier to monitor dbus to be sure?
[20:56] <gcj> any idea how I can do that? dbus always confuses the hell out of me
[20:57] <MartijnVdS> gcj: dbus-monitor --session
[20:57] <MartijnVdS> uh.. --system more likely
[20:57] <gcj> thanks :) i'll give that a try
[20:58] <gcj> the iwlwifi driver is also built with CONFIG_IWLWIFI_DEVICE_TRACING enabled, so I should be able to see everything the card is doing, if I can find out how
[20:58] <foobarry> gcj: turn off power saving
[21:01] <MartijnVdS> gcj: probably by fondling some file in /sys/module/ or /sys/devices
[21:01] <gcj> the pauses don't seem to be connected to dbus events
[21:02] <MartijnVdS> gcj: foobarry's suggestion could help
[21:02] <gcj> iwconfig says "Power Management:off", is that enough?
[21:03] <MartijnVdS> iwconfig is old & busted
[21:03] <MartijnVdS> try "iw wlan0 link"
[21:03] <MartijnVdS> or get power_management
[21:03] <MartijnVdS> let me check the syntax
[21:04] <MartijnVdS> iw wlan0 get power_save
[21:04] <gcj> "Power save: off"
[21:04] <MartijnVdS> hmm
[21:05] <MartijnVdS> maybe the devices decides to scan all by itself? I have no idea :(
[21:05] <MartijnVdS> maybe ask some linux-wireless experts on their mailing list?
[21:07] <gcj> ok i'll try that :)
[21:07] <gcj> thanks for your help
[22:47] <popey> nexus 4 supports wireless charging out of the box doesn't it?
[22:51] <Myrtti> yup
[22:51] <Myrtti> qi charging
[22:52] <daftykins> yip i've got a cheapy wireless charger from amazon
[22:52] <popey> ta
[22:52] <popey> yeah, found some cheapo ones on ebay
[22:52] <daftykins> popey: are you after one? i don't really use mine and so it could do with going to a new home
[22:52] <popey> i need two
[22:52] <daftykins> ah :(
[22:53] <popey> well, ideally i need two
[22:53] <popey> one is better than none ☻
[22:53] <popey> need to think about this
[22:53] <popey> fact is I'll need to have the charger plugged in (just like I have the phone plugged in)
[22:53] <popey> but also have a cable for doing adb debugging
[22:53] <popey> so might actually be more annoying having wireless charging
[22:53] <daftykins> ah-har
[22:54] <popey> many thanks for the offer though!
[22:54] <popey> very kind
[22:54] <daftykins> np :)
[22:57] <Myrtti> still kinda want http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/qi-wireless-charging-alarm-clock-with-bluetooth-speaker-light-wood-p42423.htm
[22:58] <popey> Myrtti: i reckon you could make one of them
[22:58] <Myrtti> I'm sure
[22:59] <bigcalm> Myrtti: that's lovely
[22:59] <popey> pi insde
[22:59] <Myrtti> But How much value do I put on my own time
[22:59] <popey> well, there's time and there's investment
[23:00] <popey> i bought a couple of toys today ⍨
[23:00] <Myrtti> anyway silly late, gn
[23:00] <popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141142336606?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
[23:00] <popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300976411515?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649