[00:26] <KI7MT> dsmythies, Question, I ran across a file that has <credit type="author copyright">  .. I thought all contributed Ubuntu Sys Docs were under Creative Commons Lic. Yes?
[00:31] <KI7MT> dsmythies, Actually, there's 125 files that have that tag.
[00:35] <KI7MT> dsmythies, there are 44  of 353 in gnome-help
[00:43] <dsmythies> KI7MT: <credit : I don't know, and defer to anyone else that knows the history
[00:46] <KI7MT> Same author, same set of files <app>, did NOT author copyright his other file ..interesting.
[00:47] <dsmythies> KI7MT: 4 files of 8: Consider to submit a Merge Proposal. Just in case. Also, MPs in smallish chunks is sometimes easier to deal with conflicts or whatever issue might arise.
[00:49] <dsmythies> KI7MT: you certainly are thorough.
[00:50] <KI7MT> Understand, overall the changes are pretty small, mostly contest .. one fule had to re-wrok the steps due to the app changing, but it's pretty easy.
[00:50] <KI7MT> *context.
[00:51] <KI7MT> dsmythies, thorough .. I dont like re-work .. :-)  so id' rather spend the time and do it once
[00:54] <KI7MT> Not to mention, had to learn a fare bit about Mallard to start with :-)
[00:54] <dsmythies> KI7MT: Understood.
[02:18] <KI7MT> dsmythies, All 8 done .. they all yelp-checked ok, and html looks good.
[04:23] <KI7MT> dsmythies, Well, I sent the merge proposal, we shall see how the first one goes :-)
[10:56] <KI7MT> dsmythies, When you in tomorrow, after the merge, I had some navigaton issues, I've resolved them, sent a email to list but it's held for some reason, anyway, will address the patch tomorrow.
[14:55] <shaunm__> KI7MT: note that you can also ask questions on the mallard mailing list if you're stumped on something
[14:55] <shaunm__> http://projectmallard.org/about/contact
[14:55] <shaunm__> (I'm also happy to answer questions on irc if I'm around)
[15:55] <KI7MT> shaunm__  GM, the problem I had was my own really, I didn't pay attention to the xref refs file and it was adding things where I didn't want them. I think in the long run we need put together a few wiki pages that show examples showing usage specific to the System Help.
[16:02] <dsmythies> KI7MT: When do you sleep?
[16:03] <dsmythies> KI7MT: I need some time to catch up. I am just downloading and building docs now.
[16:03] <KI7MT> dsmythies, I don't require allot really :-)
[16:06] <KI7MT> dsmythies, I tried to build the desktop using the wiki .. ./configure && make all && make install .. did not work at all. Maybe that's for the DocBook method ? In any case, used yelp-build html  -o html-out . and it put them all in a folder for me.
[16:07] <KI7MT> That's when I caught the error I made with the links, as it was not present building individual files.
[16:08] <KI7MT> So I just been spending the morning wiht my head stuck in Mallard documentation :-)
[16:11] <KI7MT> dsmythies, Oh, an put if for the bug squad, and hg approved me the morning, so I can work the bugs a bit more efficiently. Gonna join the 5-A-Day group again, and Hug 5 bugs a day .. lol ..
[16:11] <dsmythies> KI7MT: Which wiki page? If https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/BuildingDocumentation , that is the page I follow exactly.
[16:11] <KI7MT> I always got a kick out of the term Hug-A-Bug ... that's catchy phrase :-)
[16:12] <KI7MT> dsmythies, Yes, think that's it let me go looky.
[16:13] <dsmythies> KI7MT: I have an issue with the "5-A-Day" concept. There was one bug that I worked on for 6 months.
[16:14] <KI7MT> dsmythies, No, that's not the page I was on .. wow, wonder how I got off on some other page like that.
[16:15] <KI7MT> dsmythies, Well, I look at 5-A-Day as read or do something with 5-A-Day .. not necessarily fix five a day :-)
[16:17] <dsmythies> KI7MT: There are also brief how to build notes, probably good enough for most, on the getting started page. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/UbuntuDesktopGuide
[16:17] <KI7MT> dsmythies, Found its .. under Checking TAB .. thats where I got the make all from.
[16:17] <KI7MT> dsmythies, Thats wehre I went second, INSTALL file in base DIR, that's the standard ./configure .. .. .. ..
[16:18] <KI7MT> That produced nothing but a load of errors.
[16:19] <KI7MT> dsmythies, I should have been using the Build TAB. would ahve saved myself allot of headache.
[16:19] <KI7MT> dsmythies, One good thing came from it though, found several files that have hard links to system Icons, and they should have :-)
[16:20] <KI7MT> they should be using figures/icon-name.png or whatever they need.
[16:24] <dsmythies> KI7MT: files with hard links: I suspect, but without an example name, am not sure, those are the files that are subjects of the existing bug reports referred to yesterday.
[16:25] <dsmythies> KI7MT: Checking TAB: yes, I think is a lingering reference to docbook method. Needs to be fixed.
[16:32] <KI7MT> dsmythies, ubuntu-menubar-intro.page  ..  couple hard links to system icon folder
[16:36] <dsmythies> KI7MT: Oh. Good catch. If I go to https://help.ubuntu.com/13.10/ubuntu-help/unity-menubar-intro.html I see the issue.
[16:38] <KI7MT> dsmythies, also check display-dual-monitors.page file .. look for display-dual-monitors.webm  .. that's a probably a typo on the image name, need to check Makefile.am
[16:39] <dsmythies> KI7MT: display-dual-monitors.webm: That one is definately due to one of the bugs and conditionals. The file name is correct.
[16:41] <KI7MT> Nope, the image is not in ./figures  ,, and its not in Makefile.am either
[16:41] <dsmythies> Ki7MT: It is not supposed to be there. It is a GNOME help file and not an Ubuntu-docs help file.
[16:42] <KI7MT> Im wondering, need to read more, but I wonder if we can make a Library file, with vars, point to the needed system Icons, not the custom images that are needed, just the Icons .. if that resolve some of the icon problems.
[16:44] <KI7MT> Or, a more simple soluiton, as this is system SW, use the system icons .. just ln -s /some-path/some-image.svg ./figures
[16:45] <KI7MT> That wont work for custom screen captures or anything, but simply icons, dont see what not.
[16:47] <dsmythies> KI7MT: Myself, I don't think you can do that. Why? Because in the end the HTML must stand on its own and must not assume that /some-path/some-image.svg is present. Indeed, on a server it might not be.
[16:48] <KI7MT> True, if your linking to a file, you need to be sure it's going to be there.
[16:49] <KI7MT> But, the generated HTML files aren't stand along, I can't take them off the system and have them work, they are still linked to the /figures  and /img folders.
[16:52] <KI7MT> getting the same errors with the Building TAB as I did with yelp-build .. there's a couple failes with issues, and im also getting a DEPRECATION WARNING about http://projectmallard.org/ui/1.0/ui_expanded.html
[16:52] <KI7MT> *couple of files
[16:53] <KI7MT> but .. I have a build folder with html files in it :-)
[16:54] <KI7MT> Somethign else too .. yelp-builds are Blue Themes, using the Building TAB method, it's the traditional Orange we'd expect.
[16:56] <KI7MT> One thing is missing, using yelp-build, I get ab "About" link on the bottom of each page, with the Building TAB method, no "About" links at all.
[17:00] <dsmythies> KI7MT: Stand alone: Yes, I meant including the /figures and /img subdirectories.
[17:01] <dsmythies> KI7MT: DEPRECATION WARNING(s): Yes, I observed them also, but haven't had a chance to look into it yet.
[17:03] <dsmythies> KI7MT: Blue Vs. Orange Theme: I never deviate from using the build TAB method, so have no knowledge of what you are saying.
[17:04] <dsmythies> KI7MT: ABOUT link: I have never seen it in the html, including going back to before my time.
[17:04] <KI7MT> dsmythies, just for grins, cd to ./ubuntu-help/C/   then:    mkdir ./html && yelp-build html -o html .
[17:05] <KI7MT> then firefox or chromium ./html/index.html
[17:05] <KI7MT> the ABout link is there when you build with yelp-build
[17:12] <dsmythies> KI7MT: Yes, but ylep-build for ubuntu-docs needs to be told to use ubuntu.xsl. see the yelp-build command in ./html/Makefile.
[17:14] <KI7MT> Ok, so without specifying the whihc xsl .. it's uses it's own .. man, wish I would have known that yesterday.
[17:17] <KI7MT> dsmythies, Sure enough .. UBUNTUXSL=ubuntu.xsl   .. bugger !!
[17:38] <KI7MT> dsmythies, what email client do you use?
[18:38] <dsmythies> KI7MT: email client: I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it might embarrass me. (Microsoft Outlook from MS Office 2007)
[18:40] <KI7MT> LOL .. no worries, was uing Thunderbird and Im having trouble wiht the address book on the To: Cc: lines etc. I can't seem to add more than one ID without it being RED.
[18:44] <KI7MT> Is this correct for us in Docs -->   ubuntu-docs: ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com  <-- Need to send a bug fix bundle.
[19:01] <dsmythies> KI7MT: email address: Yes. And I guess you must have figured it out, because I see an e-mail in my docs folder.
[19:02] <KI7MT> dsmythies, I just tried to submit a fix using bzr bundle > file-name-txt and it also included fixes form accounts stuff I was working on, any idea why that happened?
[19:07] <dsmythies> No Idea. I have never used "bzr bundle". I have also never successfully applied a patch automatically before, but my experience is more with git and the kernel directly from kernel.org
[19:11] <KI7MT> dsmythies, I think I figured it out. brought down a branch ..did local commits, but we can't push commits back to the server.  Other than pulling a new branch each time after a fix, I don't know how else we can use bzr as most of us are not in the commiters group.
[19:16] <dsmythies> KI7MT: Others know much much more than I. The best way for your local commits to get back to the master code is via a Merge Proposal. Since you have an outstanding Merge Proposal, you could have just revised it. But yes, sometimes I mess up and have to just get a new branch. If my local copy gets out of date, but otherwise has no local chnages, I use "bzr pull" to re-sync with the master code.
[19:22] <KI7MT> dsmythies, Maybe I should do a pull each time before working on any fixes, but Im not sure how that would an outstanding MP's I have.
[19:25] <dsmythies> KI7MT: Yes, you could easily get into a conflict situation, where bzr doesn't know what to do, if you are edting the same files again. Such a situation adds burden to the Documentation Committers.
[19:31] <KI7MT> dsmythies, I jsut sent a email to the group, this really frustrating, a one line fix causing all this mess.
[19:33] <KI7MT> Maybe I should stick to working on the Wiki / Help pages :)
[22:01] <KI7MT> dsmythies, Im back .. we had a power outage.
[22:18] <dsmythies> KI7MT: re: unity-menubar-intro.page from earlier: I made a mistake. The html is O.K. The required files are in the img subdirectory in this case.
[22:18] <dsmythies> KI7MT: re: frustration and maybe staying with Wiki and Help pages instead: Yes, sometimes it can be very frsutrating. However, please stay, we could sure use the help.
[22:19] <KI7MT> dsmythies, I not leaving, I don't give up that easily :)  .. it just annoyed me that a simple one-liner turned into a mess.
[22:19] <dsmythies> KI7MT: I hear you.
[22:20] <KI7MT> dsmythies, re unity file.. I didn't really dig into it, was just comparing the errors from yelp and manual build
[22:20] <dsmythies> Ki7MT: BY the way, I haven't even built the docs with your MP included yet. Had other stuff to do.
[22:21] <KI7MT> dsmythies, Are you  like to only one porting server docs ? I pulled the repo and there looks to be allot of work there.
[22:22] <dsmythies> KI7MT: I had a pretty thorough look at everything in the final stages of 13.10 and had confidence that we had bug reports for whatever wasn't just so.
[22:23] <dsmythies> KI7MT: Peter Matulis is also very involved in server docs. But yes, there is a ton of work. In any given cycle we complete maybe 15% of what needs to be done.
[22:24] <KI7MT> dsmythies, jump in there, but DocBook really is not my thing.
[22:24] <KI7MT> dsmythies, truth be told, I'm much better with the servers than desktop.
[22:26] <KI7MT> dsmythies, ment to say, I would jump in there but .. .. ..
[22:28] <KI7MT> dsmythies, Whats the different between the Bug Squad and Bug Control teams ?
[22:34] <dsmythies> KI7MT: Bug Squad Vs. Bug Control: I do not know.
[22:37] <dsmythies> KI7MT: Others complain about DocBook also, and say that is why they don't step up to help. Peter was looking into something else, but we seem to be stuck trying to estimate the related translations workflow changes.
[22:44] <KI7MT> dsmythies, I just read up on Bug Squad it's part of UB-QA, and Bug Control is a sub-set if Bug-Squad, but But Control can change status and all that. Basically, Bug Sqaud folks are noobs like me, and the Bug COntrol folks are the veterans.
[22:45] <KI7MT> dsmythies, I'm kinda of lost as to what I should do now, archive my current ubuntu-doc and pull a new one or what.
[22:46] <KI7MT> Maybe I'll go pester the folks in Launchpad, maybe they can shed come light on what I did wrong.
[22:49] <dsmythies> KI7MT: Please give me some time to catch up. I suspect that all you needed to do earlier was revise your MP instead of "bundle" or whatever. However, by all means go to Launchpad folks, they know much better than I.
[22:59] <KI7MT> dsmythies, No worries at all .. just trying to figure out where I messed up. the LP guys are saying prob not good idea to use bzr bundle
[23:10] <KI7MT> dsmythies, I got the fix, it was my fault  .. I should have pulled the 326 bran from LP before creating the bug fix.
[23:11] <KI7MT> Now the challenge of un-doing what I did .. LOL
[23:34] <KI7MT> dsmythies, Ok, I removed the attachment on the bug fix, now I have to pull 325 again, and create the fix there, and submit from that branch-pull
[23:37] <dsmythies> KI7MT: ... which might then conflict with your existing branch 326 proposed. Myself, I would either wait for us doc committers to catch up or just revise your MP. Or you can just cancel your MP and start again. Let me know, becuase I am trying to understand and follow your MP right now.
[23:40] <KI7MT> dsmythies, The way I understand it, I have to keep, my current pending MP separate from any other pulls. So to work on anything else at the moment, I have to pull a new bbranch from LP, which is 325 .. then work the bug fix.
[23:44] <KI7MT> dsmythies, The MP is fiarly straight forward, I had to remove some xrfs that was causing double header navigatoin issues, then while I was there editing, I made a couple small text edits, and added two seealso xrfs. I added
[23:44]  * knome is lurking
[23:45] <dsmythies> Well ya, but your system was already at your MP for rev 326 as of your submission, so you just continue from there.
[23:45] <KI7MT> ge knome
[23:46] <KI7MT> dsmythies, No, my branch was at 325 when I sent the second MP to fix the navigation issues, it went up to r327 when I did the lp:bug-fix after posting the second MP
[23:47] <dsmythies> KI7MT: That doesn't make sense. Look at your MP, it says rev 326.
[23:47] <KI7MT> so where I screwed up was, I had a pending MP #326, and I did a bug fix from the same source tree, and the commit for the lp:bug-fix took that source tree to #327 .. which I have since reverted to #326.
[23:48] <KI7MT> #325 was my first MP .. that was merged last night.
[23:49] <dsmythies> Yes, I know.
[23:49] <KI7MT> and #326 I sent up this morning, that was to fix the Nav issues.
[23:50] <KI7MT> and #327 was where I screwed up, and sent a bug-fix from the MP source tree #326.
[23:51] <dsmythies> Yes I know. So if you are now working on a different issue on other files, then yes start from the master code at rev 325.
[23:51] <KI7MT> Yes, that's what I should have done today for that onle line bug fix, that's where I screwed up.
[23:52] <dsmythies> O.K., finally I am with you. sorry for being so thick.
[23:52] <KI7MT> Hey, Im the one that caused all the problem, note you mate :-)
[23:52] <KI7MT> *not
[23:54] <KI7MT> so what I've done to rectify the bug-fix malfunction. I've issued a bzr revert -r 326 to the one source tree, adn I'ed deleted the files form the Bug I was trying to fix.  Now, I need to pull 325, work the bug-fix, and send another MP
[23:54] <KI7MT> *deleted the file from the LP bug .. .. .
[23:55] <KI7MT> So the lesson learned here is, fix several bugs at once on one branch pull :-)