[01:00] <shauno> diddledan: you about perchance?
[01:00] <diddledan> ello
[01:01] <daftykins> ah-har my fellow late nighters
[01:01] <shauno> yeah, it's a bit suspect when you think there's a good chance someone will be here at 1am ;)
[01:01] <diddledan> hehe :-p
[01:02] <shauno> quick wp Q; I have a theme I customized for a friend a few years back.  I'm trying to bring it up to date, and I'm realising that my "pull it into my text editor and have at it" method doesn't update well
[01:02] <shauno> what's the proper way to create a .. subtheme?  or at least what do they call it so I can google
[01:02] <diddledan> child theme is the technical term
[01:03] <shauno> hm, that looks like a darned good start
[01:03] <diddledan> all a child theme requires to operate is a style.css which includes a standard wordpress style.css comment first-off which the addition of a line that reads something like "Template: parent-theme"
[01:03] <diddledan> then you create files which override the parent
[01:04] <diddledan> so if the parent has an index.php and the child also has one then the child takes precedence
[01:04] <shauno> I can pull php into that too?  there's quite a few code tweaks too
[01:04] <shauno> ah, cool
[01:04] <diddledan> oh you'll probably want to pub an @include statement in your style.css to include the parent's css and then put your overrides below that
[01:05] <diddledan> or is it @import?
[01:05] <diddledan> I forget
[01:05] <diddledan> probably the latter now I think of it
[01:05] <diddledan> @include is a sass-ism I believe
[01:05] <shauno> import, but yeah
[01:08] <shauno> google seems to have coughed up enough to keep me busy for now :)
[01:08] <shauno> my previous method was 'grep for comments that start with my initials', which was .. well it's helping, but still a bit blunt
[06:00] <knightwise> hello everyone :)
[06:00] <MartijnVdS> \o
[06:00] <knightwise> hey MartijnVdS ! ;-) Happy friday to ya ! :)
[06:06] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: my vm got rebooted :(
[06:10] <knightwise> No worries MartijnVdS :) It happens to the best of us
[06:10] <MartijnVdS> https://forum.bytemark.co.uk/t/bigv-head24-outage/1769
[06:10] <knightwise> Just finished a big project in my house
[06:10] <MartijnVdS> you now have running water?
[06:10] <knightwise> exporting ALL our music from iTunes and making it cross-platform accessible :)
[06:10] <MartijnVdS> Plumbing?
[06:10] <MartijnVdS> Electricity?
[06:11] <MartijnVdS> :)
[06:11] <knightwise> iTunesExporter + Samba share + Plex :)
[06:11] <knightwise> Add a Sonos to the mix and .. Cross platform open source friendly music for the family
[06:17] <MartijnVdS> sonos isn't really free though
[06:37] <MartijnVdS> but: if your house is big enough to need multiple speakers -- cool :)
[06:41] <knightwise> Not free , but also not hogging any data in a proprietary fashion
[06:42] <knightwise> We have a sonos 1 downstairs. Might add one for the bathroom/bedroom in the future
[06:42]  * knightwise is gonna have a quick breakfast
[07:04] <MooDoo> morning
[07:04] <Myrtti> möh
[07:22] <Myrtti> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R94Q6NhuS3A ♥
[08:03] <knightwise> Plex seems to have a little trouble with my +15000 song database
[08:03] <knightwise> music collention i meant
[09:05] <diplo> Morning all
[09:05] <SuperMatt> morning
[09:13] <jussi> Im very happy it is friday
[09:13] <jussi> :)
[09:17] <TwistedLucidity> Anyone here using KVM?
[09:18] <TwistedLucidity> Got a wee question about back-ups.
[09:20] <knightwise> no :( I'm using virtualbox
[09:20] <knightwise> anyone know anything about what happens when you put a network card in "host only" mode ?
[09:22] <TwistedLucidity> It's only visible to the host, and ot other VM's running on that host in "host only" mode
[09:24] <knightwise> ok , i'll try to explain
[09:24] <knightwise> my host machine (running my vms) has 2 network cards
[09:24] <knightwise> one connected to my internal network
[09:24] <knightwise> one connected to my 'dmz'
[09:24] <diddledan> morning
[09:25] <knightwise> i've setup a virtual machine that I have configured to connect to my network using the adapter that is connected to the DMZ network
[09:25] <TwistedLucidity> Ah, you mean put a physcial card into "host only" mode; not the "host only" networking option?
[09:25] <knightwise> (and I put that adapter in bridget mode)
[09:25] <knightwise> bridgeD
[09:25] <TwistedLucidity> Bridged to DMZ, gotcha.
[09:26] <knightwise> so i want make absolutely sure that that VM doesnt talk to anything else EXCEPT the network connector that is tied to the DMZ
[09:26] <knightwise> so do I select "bridged mode" or "host only ? "
[09:26] <TwistedLucidity> Bridged.
[09:26] <knightwise> ok,
[09:26] <knightwise> because when I run etherape on that machine I do see some connections to my "internal" network going on
[09:27] <TwistedLucidity> If you select "Host only" it will only be able to talk to the host and other "host only" machines on the same host.
[09:27] <TwistedLucidity> "on that machine"? The host or the guest/VM
[09:27] <knightwise> on the guest vm
[09:27] <knightwise> the one I hooked to the DMZ connector and put into bridged mode
[09:28] <knightwise> somehow it seems to talk to my host machine/network that is running my vms
[09:29] <TwistedLucidity> It can talk to the host as the host is also on the DMZ.
[09:30] <TwistedLucidity> If the guest can get from the DMZ to internal, isn't that just the host doing some routing?
[09:30] <TwistedLucidity> I'm not a networking expert, so I could be talking out my hat.
[09:30] <knightwise> yes , but not with the 172.16.50.0 address my guest is seeing
[09:30] <knightwise> thats my INTERNAL ip range
[09:31] <knightwise> ah holdon
[09:31] <knightwise> I think its resolving that name from my DNZ network adapter
[09:31] <knightwise> my machine is still "answering" on that interface too
[09:31] <knightwise> you are correct
[09:31] <knightwise> but there are no services published on that ip.
[09:32] <TwistedLucidity> You could trying fiddling around with iptables to further isolate the guest, but I'm afraid I couldn't help you with that
[09:33] <knightwise> no problem :) I'm thinking of moving that machine to an old laptop anyway. that way i'm 100 procent sure there are no "bridges" between both networks
[09:37] <knightwise> just figured it out
[09:38] <knightwise> the traffic its seeing is broadcast traffic from the DMZ interface from my host adapter
[09:38] <knightwise> nothin to worry about :)
[09:47] <TwistedLucidity> \o/
[09:52] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Peculiar People Day! :-D
[09:52] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Happy #ubuntu-uk day to you too! ;)
[09:52] <JamesTait> :-P
[10:17] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:28] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:31] <MooDoo> hello
[10:32] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[10:42] <popey> \o/ shipped https://www.tindie.com/products/Ryanteck/ryanteck-raspberry-pi-motor-controller-board/
[10:43] <brobostigon> :)
[10:48] <diplo> Got a project for it already popey ?
[10:48]  * AlanBell is not feeling the love for pre-orders and kickstarters at the moment
[10:50] <kvarley> How can I create a SFTP user that can ONLY read/write in /srv/mydomain.com ?
[10:52] <dwatkins> treat it as a user with ssh access to a chrooted jail, I guess, kvarley.
[10:52] <kvarley> Thanks dwatkins I'll check the wiki :)
[10:52] <dwatkins> Alternatively, put their web root into their home directory. You could even put their logs into their home directory.
[10:52] <AlanBell> it is built in now
[10:52] <AlanBell> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/linux-and-open-source/chroot-users-with-openssh-an-easier-way-to-confine-users-to-their-home-directories/
[10:53] <dwatkins> I have an account on a server with multiple websites on it, each user has a 'www' and a 'logs' directory in their home, under which the domains and logs are stored for their domains.
[10:53] <kvarley> The problem is it's an existing virtualhost so it has to be /srv/mydomain.com really
[10:53] <dwatkins> ah ok, not so easy to change, then
[10:56] <kvarley> I figured as much :P
[10:56] <popey> diplo: ya
[10:56]  * diplo buys one to open and close curtains in the morning/evening
[10:56] <popey> its to go with http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141142336606?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2648
[10:56] <popey> want to make a little wireless robot which scuttles about the house
[10:56] <diplo> AlanBell: Whats happening with the ubuntu pi cluster thing, lost track of what was happening
[10:56] <diplo> looks fun popey
[10:57] <AlanBell> diplo: we just got the rest of the money, so I will soon be ordering another batch of pi devices
[10:57] <diplo> Quite interested to do that with my eldest, let me know how you get on
[10:57] <AlanBell> and I am going to be organising a bit of a hack day
[10:57] <popey> diplo: yeah, thats the plan
[10:57] <popey> having a python powered robot in the house
[10:59] <popey> will be interesting to see how long the battery lasts running pi + controller + motors + maybe webcam
[10:59] <popey> might add some sensors to detect walls etc
[11:01] <brobostigon> sounds interesting,
[11:03] <diplo> Sounds great, my friend bought a remote device inc webcam to watch his kittens whilst he was at work and cost him £2-300
[11:06] <awilkins> Why would you want to watch kittens via IP?
[11:06]  * awilkins remembers lolcats and concedes
[11:07] <diplo> I honestly didn't work that out
[11:07] <diplo> :)
[11:07]  * awilkins wonders if there is potential in having a webcam site that shows live streams of kittens
[11:07] <awilkins> I mean, people will pay to see other things on webcams
[11:07] <awilkins> Why not kittens
[11:08] <popey> ooh http://www.gizchina.com/2014/01/10/leaked-photos-video-meizu-mx3-running-ubuntu/
[11:08] <awilkins> Apparently this guy is good for £300 and a certain amount of footling, he could subscribe to cutekittencams.com for a mere £10 a month
[11:09] <awilkins> Nice Chinese iPhone ripoff with Ubuntu on it...
[11:09] <popey> hardly an iphone rip off
[11:09] <awilkins> Apple will say so
[11:09] <popey> its gigantic for one thing
[11:10] <awilkins> Has curvy corners and a middly buttony thing
[11:10] <awilkins> Apart from being gigantic it looks very iPhone
[11:11] <awilkins> Is Ubuntuphone still a dual environment running Android as well?
[11:11] <awilkins> Or is that more a manufacturers decision?
[11:11] <jussi> looks more like a galaxy something :P
[11:12] <popey> ubuntu phone never was dual boot
[11:12] <popey> edge was
[11:13] <popey> yeah, looks like those giant htc / samsung things.
[11:13] <popey> dont like giant phones at all. still clinging on to my 4s
[11:13] <popey> even iphone 5 and 5s are too big for me
[11:13] <popey> i must have lady-hands
[11:13] <awilkins> I'm rather fond of my slightly enormous Nexus 4
[11:15] <TwistedLucidity> Harder to lose down the back of the sofa? :-)
[11:16] <awilkins> Actually, without a case on it it's a slippery sucker
[11:16] <awilkins> You have to be careful about putting it on *slightly* inclined smooth surfaces because environmental vibrations make it drift and slip off
[11:16] <awilkins> And Gorilla glass is ace but the bezel must be made of VulnerableToDamageium
[11:17] <jussi> I have abroken N4 and a broken galaxy note 2...
[11:17] <awilkins> It's very nice without the case in the pocket - barely know it's there
[11:17] <popey> yeah, broke my n4 within a few days
[11:17] <popey> stupid frictionless back
[11:17] <foobarry> stupid sexy flanders
[11:18] <awilkins> But I have a case, every time I take it off I ding the bezel again within an hour
[11:19] <awilkins> They should make the bezel out of that memoflex stuff they make high-end spectacles from
[11:23] <jussi> awilkins: ++
[11:23] <jussi> awilkins: did you see the new self healing back on some new LG?
[11:24]  * awilkins has now googled it
[11:25] <awilkins> Neat
[11:30] <Myrtti> popey: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1046165765/egg-the-intelligent-cat-companion?ref=home_popular
[11:31] <popey> golly, thats doing well
[11:40] <MooDoo> wow
[11:41] <foobarry> you ever get that thing where sometimes you speak and you hear a voice that doesn't sound like you?
[11:42] <foobarry> lady in the shop asked if i wanted a receipt and i spoke and the voice sounded like moss "no thank you" from IT crowd
[11:42] <foobarry> i don't usually sound like moss
[11:43] <jussi> oooh, 4.3 arrived on the S3 :)
[11:44] <foobarry> http://now-here-this.timeout.com/2014/01/08/pay-per-minute-cafe/
[11:44] <foobarry> much hipster
[11:46] <dwatkins> so trend
[11:52] <foobarry> some overlap with OSS projects http://www.boredpanda.com/sharp-suits-worst-client-comment-posters/
[11:53] <TwistedLucidity> Reads like a "pay by the minute" mini make/hack-space.
[11:56] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Some of those are far too familiar....
[12:04] <bigcalm> I need the help from somebody who knows how to play with files in a directory from the CLI. I need to touch each file in turn and sleep for 1 second between each one. That possible?
[12:05] <MooDoo> can't you do a for file in ls? or something similar not sure the exact syntax
[12:06] <awilkins> for F in * ; do touch $F ; sleep 1; done
[12:06] <bigcalm> That's the thing, I don't know how to do those things from the CLI :)
[12:06] <bigcalm> I could write it in PHP though :P
[12:06] <bigcalm> awilkins: ta :)
[12:07] <dwatkins> for i in * ; do touch "$i" ; sleep 1 ; done
[12:07] <bigcalm> Ah, good point, might have spaces
[12:07] <dwatkins> That's off the top of my head, bigcalm, but should do the job.
[12:07] <awilkins> Pah, I just assumed that bigcalm was sensible enough not to have stupid file names with spaces  in
[12:08] <bigcalm> awilkins: these are files that have been uploaded by a client...
[12:08] <dwatkins> Never underestimate the ability of users to give things silly names.
[12:08] <MooDoo> dwatkins: I read that as never underestimate the power of the dark side lol
[12:08] <dwatkins> Users should be considered as evil, so that also applies, MooDoo.
[12:09] <davmor2> dwatkins: you are dealing with bigcalm never assume!
[12:09]  * bigcalm kippers davmor2 
[12:10] <davmor2> bigcalm: hey the same rules applies to everyone else you just deserve it more :P
[12:11] <davmor2> bigcalm: by the way that was a pretty funky pen but if I had it in my jacket pocket I would be terrified of ink leakage :)
[12:12] <bigcalm> davmor2: one of the reasons why I don't usually take it out of my office
[12:14] <davmor2> bigcalm: it seems to me to be the most attractively fundamentally flawed pen in the world though ;)
[12:14] <davmor2> bigcalm: did you hear about bigron?  back in a&e
[12:15] <knightwise> exit
[12:15] <bigcalm> davmor2: no, I didn't. Oh dear. I hope he's pulling through
[12:17] <davmor2> bigcalm: seems he got dehydrated and his heart started playing up https://www.facebook.com/mel.wellsted?fref=ts
[12:20] <bigcalm> davmor2: I don't have access to her page
[12:21] <davmor2> bigcalm: Mel Wellsted Heart but dehydrated so in new x in reply to What is up with Ron ???
[12:24] <Myrtti> I'm at the moment encoding files from mp3 to amr-wb and that's basically the syntax I use to go through the files...
[12:25] <MartijnVdS> amr-wb? People actually use that?!
[12:25] <Myrtti> sure
[12:25] <Myrtti> brilliant for audiobooks
[12:25] <Myrtti> since Nexus 5 doesn't support ogg speex
[12:25] <MartijnVdS> Oh, I just use low-bitrate mp3
[12:27] <popey> davmor2: would be proud, I'm listening to way a bit of 80's today http://www.last.fm/user/popeydc
[12:39] <TwistedLucidity> "Jesus Jones", now there's some flashbacks.
[12:41] <davmor2> popey: here have a biscuit for listening to the best decade of music
[12:41] <MartijnVdS> *second-best
[12:49] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: Don't make me come over there, mostly cause I'll get wet and cold ;)
[13:24] <foobarry> Channel 4 has removed all its full-length programmes from the video-streaming site YouTube.
[13:24] <foobarry> It says it is directing viewers to its 4oD catch-up services instead.
[13:24] <TwistedLucidity> So no 4od on Linux then
[13:24] <marxjohnson> dammit
[13:24] <TwistedLucidity> Sorry, "GNU/Linux"
[13:24] <foobarry> no flash on linux soon innit?
[13:24] <TwistedLucidity> Probably
[13:24] <TwistedLucidity> Freedom haters
[13:25] <marxjohnson> You can use the Windows version of flash with pipelight
[13:25] <foobarry> no adobe flash anyway
[13:25] <foobarry> marxjohnson: is that proven stable tech?
[13:25] <marxjohnson> although milage varies
[13:25] <marxjohnson> is anything? :)
[13:25] <foobarry> until adobe stop flash for windows...
[13:26] <popey> you can extract pepper flash from chrome too
[13:26] <popey> no need for horrid windows flash
[13:26] <popey> you can have horrid linux flash
[13:26] <foobarry> i haz chrome
[13:26] <marxjohnson> Orly?
[13:26] <foobarry> but pepper flash isn't the same though
[13:27] <awilkins> Does pepper flash work on Netflix? No, because that's Silverlight, <slaps self>
[13:27] <awilkins> Need pepperlight
[13:28] <marxjohnson> pipelight is a reasonably good solution for silverlight stuff in my experience
[13:28] <popey> foobarry: isnt the same as what?
[13:29] <foobarry> just checking...
[13:30] <foobarry> pepper flash != adobe flash, i thought there were drm constraints, but maybe i'm wrong
[13:30] <foobarry> vsphere web client works on pepper, so i'm happy
[13:30] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: Pepper flash IS a version of Adobe flash
[13:31] <popey> just packaged differently
[13:31] <foobarry> 4od no worky on rooted/CM tablets so fail
[13:31] <TwistedLucidity> Well soon it will all be HTML5, so no need for Flash. But HTML5 with DRM, so no-go on GNU/Linux
[13:31] <TwistedLucidity> And now that the MPAA has joined the W3C, the situation will only worsen.
[13:31] <foobarry> why no go
[13:32] <foobarry> its possible to do it, since chromebokos work with netflix
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: oh?
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: Widevine Content Decryption Module - Versie: 1.4.2.404
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> Enables Widevine licenses for playback of HTML audio/video content.
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> part of my Chrome..
[13:33] <TwistedLucidity> I might be mis-remembering then. But I thought HTML5 DRM'd video was dead on GNU/Linux.
[13:33] <TwistedLucidity> For some reason
[13:33] <MartijnVdS> well chrome has a plugin, no idea if it works, I don't know what "Widevine" is
[13:33] <MartijnVdS> http://www.widevine.com/wv_drm.html
[13:37] <foobarry> how do google ensure only chromebooks can run netflix?
[14:00] <awilkins> You can do DRM on Linux quite fine
[14:01] <awilkins> It's just a bit silly to implement it in open-source products
[14:01] <awilkins> Because someone will just turn the code into a decrypter / DRM stripper
[14:01] <diplo> foobarry: Isn't it a chip on their devices from memory
[14:01] <TwistedLucidity> Maybe that's why I thought it was a no-go.
[14:02] <awilkins> Maybe Chromebook + Netflix requires some kind of TPM interaction
[14:02] <awilkins> Like you have to testify to the server that you are running the approved of stack with a signature
[14:04]  * xnox loads up  Backstreet Boys into my playlist =)
[14:21] <MartijnVdS> xnox: Why?!
[14:22] <xnox> MartijnVdS: Never Say Never! And It's Friday Friday, gotta get down on Friday!
[14:22] <xnox> http://youtu.be/kfVsfOSbJY0
[14:22] <MartijnVdS> (because you want it that way?)
[14:23] <MartijnVdS> xnox: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fndeDfaWCg
[14:35] <dwatkins> Friday, Friday...
[14:35] <dwatkins> xnox: you know she did this, too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVCzdpagXOQ
[14:35] <MartijnVdS> there's a sequel now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVCzdpagXOQ
[14:35] <dwatkins> haha
[14:35] <MartijnVdS> ^5 dwatkins
[14:35] <dwatkins> I like that she takes the mickey out of herself a little in that, too
[14:37] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5nfV3S7sqI
[14:37] <xnox> dwatkins: omg =) she's grown up.
[14:42] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, I bet she's sick of the word 'Friday'
[14:58] <directhex> is it bad to start boozing at 3pm to help cope with all-day parenting duties?
[14:59] <diddledan> directhex: it might be classed as being neglectful
[15:00] <Laney> only if you don't share it with child
[15:00] <foobarry> just watched sherlock, it was a bit silly
[15:04] <diddledan> foobarry: I'm not sure it was any more silly than the original conan doyle version
[15:05] <diddledan> but tbh it's been a while since I read it
[15:05] <foobarry> the wedding one was based on a book?
[15:05] <foobarry> has sherlock peaked already?
[15:06] <directhex> peak sherlock
[15:06] <directhex> sherlock production can only decline from here
[15:06] <directhex> as new sources of sherlock are discovered more slowly than existing sherlock reserves are exhausted
[15:06] <Laney> shale sherlock
[15:07] <foobarry> sherlock fracking?
[15:07] <directhex> deep-sea sherlock extraction
[15:07] <Laney> sherlock spews into the sea, causing devastation to coastal communities and wildlife
[15:08] <diddledan> foobarry: every episode so far has been based on the book of the same name
[15:08] <foobarry> i think people have been drinking
[15:09] <foobarry> it felt like a xmas episode
[15:09] <foobarry> a bit silly, less effort, etc
[15:10] <diddledan> I hate when sherlock spurts all over me
[15:10] <diddledan> :-p
[15:10] <diddledan> family friendly
[15:10] <foobarry> The story is set in 1888. The Sign of the Four has a complex plot involving service in East India Company, India, the Indian Rebellion of 1857, a stolen treasure, and a secret pact among four convicts ("the Four" of the title) and two corrupt prison guards.
[15:11] <foobarry> glad they haven't been glamorising the drug taking though
[15:12] <diplo> I didn't like the last one that much, got bored with it :/
[15:12] <foobarry> my wife watched it from outside the room through a crack in the door
[15:12] <foobarry> because it was making her cringe
[15:23] <awilkins> We want more Irene Adler
[15:24] <awilkins> For painfully obvious reasons
[15:24] <SuperMatt> So I'm writing an app which does everything using a key-value store in postgres. I've gotta admit, it really does feel really nice doing it that way
[15:24] <SuperMatt> Oh, I know Irene Adler
[15:24] <SuperMatt> aka Lara Pulver
[15:24] <awilkins> ? Postgres does KV storage?
[15:24] <SuperMatt> not reall, you have two tables to represent key-value
[15:24] <SuperMatt> and that's all you have
[15:24] <awilkins> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.0/static/hstore.html
[15:25] <SuperMatt> Lara used to come in to my drama classes when I were a nipper
[15:25] <awilkins> She was pretty awesome in "Robin Hood" as well
[15:25] <awilkins> Although I feel she's probably now typecast as "feisty lady who holds her own with smouldering allure"
[15:26] <SuperMatt> that's close to who she is in real life though
[15:26] <SuperMatt> anyway, I'm not using hstore because I'd like to be able to use the same schema in mysql if I had to
[15:27] <awilkins> Probably true of many actors
[15:27] <SuperMatt> so I have two tables: objects and attributes
[15:27] <SuperMatt> objects has two columns: id and type
[15:27] <SuperMatt> attributes has id, key and value
[15:27] <awilkins> Hmm
[15:27] <SuperMatt> the ids then map
[15:27] <awilkins> Is there a reason why you need the attributes as separate rows?
[15:27] <awilkins> Indexing, etc?
[15:28] <awilkins> Because this design doesn't really scale very well
[15:28] <SuperMatt> schemaless databases
[15:28] <awilkins> Wouldn't you be better off using a real K/V store?
[15:28] <SuperMatt> well, you should talk to reddit about that ;)
[15:28] <awilkins> I worked on an EHR app that tried to use this basic scheme
[15:28] <SuperMatt> this is how *they* do it
[15:28] <awilkins> We had prescription objects with 119 attributes
[15:29] <awilkins> And blood tests and all sorts
[15:29] <awilkins> It ground to a halt at around 10M objects because the selects on the attributes table were such a nightmare
[15:29] <awilkins> THe only code I've seen that actually *reliably* provoked deadlocks from MSSQL
[15:30] <awilkins> (for reference ; when the CEO proposed this model I said "that won't scale", but I was too junior at the time to be taken seriously)
[15:30] <SuperMatt> strange, they way I'm imagining this going is that as long as the ids are indexed, I should be able to select anything by its id *really* quickly
[15:30] <awilkins> Oh, yes, probably
[15:31] <awilkins> You really want to put the FK to the object id as a clustered index if it will support that
[15:31] <SuperMatt> I guess it might be a good idea to index the keys too
[15:32] <SuperMatt> just so I can narrow down the attributes quickly
[15:32] <awilkins> Our thing had an index on the CHAR(255) value column
[15:32] <awilkins> It was painful
[15:33] <SuperMatt> argh
[15:33] <awilkins> You don't really need the primary key on the attributes table
[15:33] <awilkins> Except for updates
[15:34] <awilkins> You want the object ID field on the attributes table to be the organizing principle of the data if you can coax your RDBMS into doing it (e.g. a clustered index )
[15:34] <awilkins> But I could just be talking academia depending on how many rows you are scaling to
[15:34] <awilkins> What kind of insert performance you need, etc
[15:34] <SuperMatt> indee
[15:34] <SuperMatt> indeed
[15:34] <SuperMatt> well, for now it's only in alpha
[15:35] <SuperMatt> if I have to change it, I will
[15:35] <awilkins> Hooray for Agile
[15:35] <SuperMatt> well, it's just me working on it, so it's hardly agile ;)
[15:35] <awilkins> What I hate is people who don't want to risk changing things that don't work
[15:36] <awilkins> "We can't change it, it might break stuff.."    "IT DOESN'T WORK NOW...."
[15:36] <SuperMatt> hahaha
[15:37] <awilkins> Also, people who object to changes that would fix things....
[15:37] <awilkins> "It's covered by unit tests"    "BUT WE'D HAVE TO DO A FULL SYSTEM TEST!!!"
[15:38] <awilkins> (after they broke my screen-scraping interface by changing their screen layouts. Which they were explicitly told not to do.)
[15:38] <awilkins> Wrote a regex-scraper instead of a column-matrix one
[15:38] <awilkins> They reverted the change to their layouts instead
[15:39] <Laney> someone recommend me some nice 2.1 PC speakers plz
[15:39] <Laney> these ones have a really annoying hum that I can't take any more
[15:39] <awilkins> This was for an "interface" that was clearly just something that programmatically drove a termainal
[15:39] <awilkins> Hmm.
[15:39] <awilkins> I have a set of 4.1 Creative ones that don't work properly anymore
[15:40] <awilkins> But I've been a 5.1 headphones type of guy for years
[15:40] <Laney> my headphones are ok
[15:40] <awilkins> Mostly because exploding noises were disturbing the other occupants of the house
[15:40] <bashrc> :)
[15:40] <Laney> I'd like to be able to hear the world
[15:40] <Laney> so I don't miss the phone, people at the door etc
[15:40] <SuperMatt> Laney: Logitech
[15:41] <Laney> these hummers are logitech
[15:41] <awilkins> http://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware/all/speaker-headphones/21-speakers
[15:41] <Laney> maybe cheap-ish ones though
[15:41] <SuperMatt> oh, I've never had logitech hum at me
[15:41] <SuperMatt> though I normally spend a fair bit
[15:41] <Laney> I think they are a few years old
[15:42] <awilkins> What I always wanted was a set that you could plug your phones into and switch over easily
[15:42] <SuperMatt> Laney: how much are you looking to spend, and what kind of input will you be using?
[15:42] <awilkins> Because crawling behind my PC to replace 5 x 3.5mm jack is bad for my blood pressure
[15:43] <SuperMatt> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-980-000320-Z523-Speakers-Black/dp/B002MHYQJA/ <- this is the kind of money I would spend on 2.1
[15:43] <Laney> yeah just 3.5mm
[15:44] <Laney> I dunno, could spend a bit if it's really worth it
[15:44] <awilkins> Never had something that uses the optical
[15:44] <SuperMatt> optical ftw
[15:44] <Laney> don't think I have optical out
[15:46] <Laney> oh it does have spdif
[15:46] <SuperMatt> well the one I linked to doesn't have spdif
[15:46] <Laney> just checked round the back
[15:46] <Laney> didn't even know it was there :P
[15:47] <SuperMatt> well now you know you have spdif, you could go 5.1
[15:47] <Laney> not sure it'd be worth it
[15:47] <SuperMatt> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-Z-906-Surround-Sound-Speakers/dp/B004MY4PU6/ <- I've got ones like these, but not this new
[15:47] <Laney> I don't really play PC games, and this room is pretty small
[15:47] <SuperMatt> fair enough
[15:47] <SuperMatt> each to their own
[15:54] <ali1234> any bash experts? i need some help with job control: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6727253/
[15:57] <Laney> $! just after you background a process contains that process's pid
[15:57] <SuperMatt> I have no idea what you're doing
[15:57] <ali1234> open the serial port, wait 1 second, write a string, close serial port
[15:58] <SuperMatt> I really don't know :/
[15:59] <ali1234> all i need to do is run a command backgrounded, then run some other commands, then kill the backgrounded command
[16:01] <SuperMatt> could you not killall cat?
[16:01] <ali1234> not really... what if i happened to be using cat forsometing else at the time?
[16:02] <SuperMatt> or ps auxww | grep cat | awk '{print $2}' to get the pid?
[16:02] <ali1234> i think i got it anyway
[16:02] <davmor2> SuperMatt: Don't say that round me and popey,  popey tell him he is advertising the people killall cat :D
[16:02] <SuperMatt> or not auxww, cos that will get all of them, maybe just ps
[16:02] <SuperMatt> hahah
[16:02] <ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6727309/
[16:03] <SuperMatt> seems like it might work
[16:03] <davmor2> popey: how is skye now?
[16:05] <popey> sleeping ☻
[16:39] <foobarry> wow. chromebooks took 21% of US laptop market vs apple 4% last year
[16:41] <popey> "Year of the Linux desktop"
[16:42] <foobarry> http://go.theregister.com/feed/www.theregister.co.uk/2014/01/10/2014_chromebook_surge/
[16:42] <foobarry> if you can bear to read register article
[16:42] <foobarry> i noticed move from arm -> intel though :(
[16:43] <foobarry> maybe lots of chrome sales were from people with laptops already ;)
[16:46] <SuperMatt> chromebook = good 'kiddie's first laptop'
[16:47] <foobarry> yeah
[16:47] <foobarry> not for school kids though it seems, as they keep on requiring some proprieatry windows crap on occasion
[16:49] <SuperMatt> ffs
[16:49] <directhex> chromebook surge = overstated
[16:49] <SuperMatt> although you can save as doc(x)? from google docs, right?
[16:49] <directhex> traffic stats on ye olde steamose website, i have more than twice as many visitors with Windows Phone as ChromeOS
[16:51] <SuperMatt> I've got to admit, I've never seen anyone using a chromebook in the wild
[16:51] <SuperMatt> maybe d0od will be able to tell us how his visitor stats from omgchrome stack up against omgubuntu
[17:00] <foobarry> easy to see, check facebook likes
[17:00] <SuperMatt> good point
[17:00] <SuperMatt> 1/11th the likes
[17:10] <popey> foobarry: loads of kids at wifeys school have chromebooks
[17:10] <AlanBell> I think I will be buying chromebook(s) this year
[17:14] <diddledan> I wonder why google haven't suggested a chromeslate?
[17:15] <diddledan> i.e. all the benefits of chromebook and all the benefits of tablet
[17:16] <davmor2> diddledan: it's called android on a tablet
[17:16] <diddledan> I don't see android as being the same thing
[17:32] <Myrtti> boggis bunce and bean...
[17:39] <diddledan> I was about to say the exact same thing, Myrtti
[17:40] <Myrtti> diddlydoodiddledan ;-)
[19:13] <DJones> Interesting report http://insights.ubuntu.com/resources/article/ubuntu-scores-highest-in-uk-gov-security-assessment/
[19:18] <salutes> Genius , pure genius (since 2005 , no less !) :   http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/linuxiow
[19:18] <salutes> Whoopsie wrong channel .
[19:21] <SuperMatt> http://www.supermatt.net/2014/01/password-hashing/ <- this. yes or no?
[19:40] <czajkowski> popey: Laney https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BdpFhx1IUAIcGAA.jpg:large
[19:40] <popey> ye olde
[19:51] <directhex> related: anyone have any feature requests before sunday? i'm planning on tagging
[20:07] <map|work> heylo
[20:09] <daftykins> hi
[20:09] <map|work> whatsup:D
[20:09] <map|work> watching eastenders?
[20:14] <daftykins> O_O
[20:14] <daftykins> good lord no!
[20:19] <map|work> O_o
[20:20] <map|work> do you follow/listen/watch or whatever any podcasts ? I never really got into podcasts
[20:20] <daftykins> nah i find i end up trying to do other things whilst listening, then don't actually pay attention :(
[20:20] <daftykins> i can't just sit and listen to something
[20:22] <map|work> hahaha that's kinda what I do too
[20:22] <map|work> next question:D do you read any linux sites/magazines?
[20:23] <daftykins> i used to watch LAS from jupiter broadcasting
[20:23] <daftykins> but other than that nah i know of no news forms for it
[20:24] <zleap> i have just pressed something in xchat that has detached the #dcglug chat window from the xchat progam any idea how to put it back please
[20:24] <daftykins> but then i more dabble than i am a real big user of it
[20:24] <map|work> you just need to drag it back into the main window i think zleap
[20:24] <map|work> dafty dont you use ubuntu as your main OS for everydya use?
[20:24] <daftykins> no sir
[20:24] <map|work> ah ok, windows?
[20:24] <daftykins> i have 3 Linux servers though
[20:25] <daftykins> yeah
[20:25] <daftykins> i mostly support windows + mac users
[20:25] <zleap> file manu - attach
[20:25] <map|work> ah
[20:25] <zleap> i think
[20:27] <map|work> what os do you 8use
[20:27] <daftykins> mostly on windows 7 across my personal systems
[20:27] <daftykins> actually you know i accidentally lied, i'm sat in front of my HTPC right now which is ubuntu
[20:27] <daftykins> :>
[20:28] <daftykins> but that doesn't count so much since it's really just booting straight into XBMC
[20:28] <map|work> what do you use linux for then
[20:28] <directhex> daftykins, i get a mention in LAS :D
[20:28] <daftykins> directhex: :O did they contact you about ye olde?
[20:28] <daftykins> map|work: servers mostly
[20:29] <directhex> daftykins, that's why i said a mention - they didn't contact me
[20:29] <map|work> LAS?
[20:29] <directhex> http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/48407/fedora-20-review-las-s30e02/
[20:29] <map|work> ahh thanks
[20:30] <directhex> about 12:40
[20:30] <daftykins> directhex: you always qualify things as if the words you use can only be interpreted one way, but language sir, is not a science
[20:30] <directhex> daftykins, i try to be extremely precise with my language, but you are correct that it may not be interpreted that way
[20:31] <daftykins> you could've been being modest :D but anywho exposure = good news \o/
[20:32] <map|work> hm what servers do u run dafty? openVPN/apache/openFTPD/bind on my machine :D and it sounds so damn loud
[20:33] <daftykins> mostly web and file serving
[20:33] <daftykins> and since VMs are cheap - a dedicated VM solely for this IRC client 8D
[20:33] <map|work> i always mean to mess about with making like a domain controller so like my windows machines all share same user/pass and home dirs mapped to linux server - you any experience with that
[20:34] <map|work> tried it..and it didnt work right :)
[20:34] <daftykins> well, i find any windows machines attached to a domain instantly slow down
[20:34] <daftykins> plus it becomes a central point of failure setup
[20:35] <map|work> ah
[20:35] <map|work> central point of failure i agree..and agree but surely shared logins and userdir would be good?
[20:35] <foobarry> fedora: http://i.imgur.com/Yd1oEUt.jpg
[20:35] <daftykins> well, i have a local file server so my PCs are more like just clients already
[20:36] <daftykins> ugh Doge needs to go away as swiftly as it came about :P
[20:36] <foobarry> i do it to keep MartijnVdS happy
[20:37] <daftykins> ;)
[20:37] <map|work> oo[ps closed the window
[20:37] <map|work> what a mug
[20:37] <daftykins> foobarry: i'll let you off!
[20:37] <map|work> so how would you do shared user/pass and userdirs?!
[20:37] <map|work> or was the point you wouldnt?
[20:39] <daftykins> nah i wouldn't see the need
[20:39] <daftykins> it comes at too high a cost :)
[20:40] <daftykins> although it could be fun to play with
[20:40] <map|work> well surely thats what they do in unis?
[20:40] <daftykins> doesn't Linux have its' own native directory services equivalent 0o
[20:40] <map|work> hmm not sure, ive seen samba being used as a PDC with windows machines and shared home dir/user pass
[20:40] <map|work> kerberos - whats that used for?
[20:41] <foobarry> what do you want to achieve?
[20:41] <map|work> well like a work/uni environment where you can logon to any machine with your l/p and its got the same homedir so the homedir must be mounted off the server
[20:42] <foobarry> yep
[20:42] <daftykins> yeah back in my uni department they were NFS mounts i think
[20:42] <map|work> and it uses the l/p off server - just wondering how best to do it (i dont need to at all..just curious/interested/learning)
[20:42] <foobarry> ldap, nfs, autmount
[20:42] <daftykins> ah yeah LDAP
[20:42] <map|work> ah so no samba PDC needed at all?
[20:42] <daftykins> not if it's fully native
[20:42] <foobarry> with linux clients?
[20:42] <foobarry> not with linux
[20:42] <map|work> with windows clients for now..
[20:43] <map|work> could you do windows clients with ldap?
[20:43] <foobarry> AD = ldap (kindof)
[20:43] <map|work> ah
[20:43] <map|work> so yes should work with linux and windows
[20:43] <foobarry> samba can implement this but its a massive pain
[20:44] <map|work> so if i used openldap/nfs/automount - it would work like i was talking? yea i tried with samba before and it never worked quite right..emoty home dirs after login lol
[20:44] <foobarry> if you want full AD features like group policy etc
[20:44] <foobarry> domain auth etc
[20:44] <map|work> ah
[20:45] <map|work> whats kerberos used for? sure ive seen that mentioned loads on my travels
[20:45] <daftykins> pure authentication
[20:46] <daftykins> afaik at least
[20:46] <map|work> yea SSO i remember reading
[20:46] <map|work> so not essential
[20:46] <daftykins> nah it's just a mechanism for authenticating safely, with remote systems i think
[20:46] <foobarry> you can use windows AD server for the win hosts, and add a couple of posix aatributes to the AD schema (this is supported) for the linux clients to auth against AD
[20:47] <map|work> oh i thought it was single sign on..i dunno :)
[20:47] <map|work> thanks foobarry il mess about with it later-like i say its just for interest/learning
[20:48] <foobarry> hybrid environments are a bit sucky
[20:48] <map|work> too much of a headache to do it now (stupid flu) :(
[20:49] <foobarry> what ends up happening is companies get windows guys in to design the AD auth and they never consider non windows clients ever
[20:49] <foobarry> man, the LAS guys just talk over each other at the same time
[20:50] <foobarry> i can't bear it
[20:50] <daftykins> hehe
[20:50] <daftykins> i mostly thought the guy on the left never got a word in ;)
[20:51] <foobarry> not sure how up to date this is map|work https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ActiveDirectoryHowto
[20:51] <foobarry> i think fedora can auth against AD out of the box for many versions now
[20:54] <map|work> thanks foo
[20:54] <map|work> SHERLOCK SEASON3 FINALE WILL MET THE INTERNET
[20:54] <map|work> So says the radiotimes :)
[20:55] <foobarry> http://www.webupd8.org/2014/01/enable-hardware-acceleration-in-chrome.html
[20:55] <foobarry> thoughts?
[20:56] <foobarry> need to remember to check this on my work pc
[20:57] <map|work> will read in sec eating and watching enders:D
[20:57] <foobarry> traitor
[20:57] <foobarry> ;P
[20:58] <foobarry> even 1ms of that programme depresses me
[21:00] <map|work> lol
[21:00] <map|work> im at work so it's ok
[21:00] <map|work> someone just came in to speak to me and ive got this up and iplayer
[21:00] <map|work> LOL
[21:00] <map|work> working hard clearly :D
[21:01] <foobarry> might have an early night
[21:01] <foobarry> expecting baby to wake at 3am
[21:08] <map|work> i think they cap the bw here now fs
[21:08] <map|work> cant see it being browser related?
[21:09] <map|work> i always get errors about insufficient bw
[21:09] <map|work> although youtube's fine
[21:21] <daftykins> errors talking about bandwidth? how odd
[21:23] <map|work> when  i stream stuff off iplayer ya
[21:23] <map|work> but it's working now in ffox
[21:23] <map|work> 38mbs ping download 50mbit upload 10.6 clearly enough
[21:24] <map|work> http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3222784378