=== Omnifrog is now known as DJOmnifrog === DJOmnifrog is now known as Omnifrog [12:50] tenc: I must say I like some flash with my desktop, I mean we have the hardware why not use it? :) [12:54] wrst: I don't disagree--as long as the flash is smooth and unobtrusive. :) [12:54] very true [12:54] and good morning tenc [13:01] Good morning to you sir. ^^ [13:08] tenc: I have a love/hate relationship with gnome [13:10] wrst: From what I've read it seem like most people do. No one seems to endorse it unreservedly. [13:14] no they improve some things then take features out of others its frustrating [13:14] hard to say bad things about kde, but I just don't like it [13:14] and that's just a personal opinion of course [13:17] Haha, yeah, there is something about KDE isn't there? Just doesn't feel right. [13:17] yeah people that love it love it [13:17] I think its mainly how gtk apps are just horrendous in kde without a lot of love [13:18] specifically firefox [13:35] Yeah who wants to deal with that? I mean I don't mind putting time in to an OS and being intimate with config details but leave me out of the window decorating. Not my area of expertise. :) [13:44] yeah that's my thing tenc, I want good defaults [13:44] most apps seem to wrok well with gtk based desktops [13:44] ^^ [14:09] So, wrst, how come you you hang out in the #ubuntu channel if you're an Arch guy? [14:10] started out as an ubuntu user :) [14:10] and still use it some on my mom's computer is the main place [14:10] pretty much anywhere else I use debian [14:10] or arch [14:11] just depends on what I'm doing [14:13] I guess a lot of people probably start out with ubuntu. I love the history behind each distro, it's like they each have their own lore. [14:14] ha ha yep and their own fanatical fan base [14:15] I like arch not becuause of anything other than fresh packages without hassle [14:15] and no upgrading every 6 months [14:20] I've only been using Arch for a few weeks but the stand out points for me are definitely fresh packages, simple package management, outstanding wiki resource and "The Arch Way" which I strongly agree with. [14:21] yes people that aren't into that will not be a fan [14:21] I wouldn't want to install arch for my mom, but for me I really like it and after you do it a couple of times the install isn't bad [14:23] It really isn't. And I think it's rewarding to spend time getting to know each corner of an OS--which Arch makes possible with it's predictably simple approach. [14:24] A lot of what ubuntu in particular brings to the table is obsfucating things for convenience which is a big trade-off. [14:26] yes and there are times when I want that trade off, but after using arch and learning more about what makes things tick, I find a lot of ubuntu stuff just gets in the way [14:26] debian seems to be a good tradeoff for me [14:26] when I want something with an installer [14:29] I haven't tried base debian yet but I'm sure I will. Seems like every few weeks I find myself back at distrowatch.com reading up on my next adventure. :) [14:33] openSUSE and CentOS are on that list. [14:41] ha ha [14:42] nothing like some distro hopping [15:06] wrst: When did you start with ubuntu? [15:16] hmm around 2007 [15:17] tenc: I started out trying ubuntu, but had a machine with a braodcom wireless chip, this was just before they started with jockey and managing restricted drivers [15:17] so I ended up using mandriva on that machine they had really good tools for most things [15:19] I have a Broadcom wireless chip in this laptop. Took a while to make it behave. My desktop is all Intel though so that's been a breeze to manage. [15:20] Did you start with Linux personal or work reasons? [15:20] personal [15:20] just to use some old hardware that at the time was designed for windows ME :) [15:20] Oops, missed a word *for [15:21] braodcom even has gotten better over the years its nto near the pain it used to be [15:21] Oh WinME... my goodness. [15:21] oh yeah [15:21] wb netritious [15:22] Yeah--I mean getting this chip functional wasn't terrible but it was more involved than anything else to get running. [15:24] I wonder when Linux as a whole got better about that--I remember my first venture with Linux back in 2000? 2001? Somewhere around there I tried to put RHL on my desktop and it was just over my head at the time but since then driver support and online documentation has come sooo far. [15:25] I didn't really come back to Linux until just last year. Completely different experience. [15:30] yes I mean ubuntu is easier to install than windows by a long shot I think [18:54] well, as an overall yeah [18:55] but certain things give me a headache still [18:55] granted, it's usually more enterprise stuff now, but scanner ethernet and wifi driver support could be improved [19:00] ^^ indeed cyberanger. [19:04] tmux is all you need. [19:19] * Unit193 uses screen. :D [19:22] [19:39] cyberanger: same could be said about windows also [19:39] their driver support isn't exactly great [19:42] and don't even get me start on OS X [21:43] Anyone know if uptime metrics be normalized by the number of CPU cores or threads? [23:36] tenc: not offhand