wallyworld_thumper: these spurious failures have suddenly gotten a lot worse - i'm onto my third landing attempt00:12
thumperyeah... :(00:12
* wallyworld_ -> doctor, bbiab01:13
thumperwallyworld_: sorry I didn't get to the reviews, lots of intro stuff with waigani and then collecting the dog from the vet04:28
wallyworld_no problemo04:28
thumperwallyworld_: if you are still short tomorrow morning I can dedicate time to it04:28
* thumper off to make dinner04:28
wallyworld_ok, hopefully not :-)04:28
jammorning dimitern, I'm not used to seeing you this early07:06
jamdid your Timezone change?07:06
dimiternjam, yes, now +1h from before07:06
jammakes sense07:06
dimiternjam, our 1-1 is in 1h, right?07:07
jamdoes Google have your right TZ now that you've moved?07:08
jamif it works for you, we can go earlier next week07:08
dimiternit was a struggle, but I found how to adjust my TZ in google, yes07:09
dimiternwell, if it works for you as it is, i'd prefer to leave it, so that I can do some work in the morning on mondays before the meeting :)07:10
jamI'd like to go earlier, because it gives a gap before the next call. but I don't  think we usually take the full hour anyway07:11
dimiternok then, let's try it provisionally for next week?07:12
jamdimitern: I'm happy to split the difference, and go for 30min, that still gives me a gap, but gives you some time07:38
jamdimitern: I'm there whenever you're around08:01
dimiternjam, coming08:01
jamdimitern: you're stream just hung, can you hear me?08:05
rogpeppemornin' all08:29
jammorning rogpeppe08:50
rogpeppejam: hiya08:50
=== axw__ is now known as axw
jamrogpeppe: poke about our 1:1 ?09:02
rogpeppeone mo09:02
TheMuefwereade: thx for feedback, that tag argument sounds reasonable to me, that's indeed a better way, yes.09:35
TheMuefwereade: do you prefer a time based line dropping over a line number based? will change it then.09:36
fwereadeTheMue, yeah, it feels like maybe a general problem with watchers -- that they can be left running by a client that doesn't make regular next calls09:49
fwereadeTheMue, may be neater to separate out a solution to that and leave a line limit in place for this CL09:50
fwereadeTheMue, can you write a bug about the watchers being abandonable?09:51
TheMuefwereade: yep, will do09:54
TheMuefwereade: i think to keep the api stable there should be no argument for line limit (or time later) but a constant (or a general configurable value?)09:55
fwereadeTheMue, let's make it a generous constant for now10:00
TheMuefwereade: ok10:01
jammgz: morning!10:09
jam1:1 ?10:09
mgzjam: mumble?10:10
jamjoining now10:10
jammgz: standup?10:46
jamrogpeppe: ^^10:46
niemeyerGood morning jujuers11:13
* niemeyer is back from holidays11:14
dimiternniemeyer, welcome back11:15
niemeyerdimitern: Thanks!11:21
jamnatefinch: 1:1?11:36
natefinchjam yep11:36
* dimitern lunch11:47
natefinchfwereade: thoughts on git addall returning an error when nothing added for git 1.8.5 (used on trusty) where on earlier versions it did not error in the same situation?  Not sure if that's something we depend on in the code.11:50
fwereadenatefinch, ah yeah12:26
fwereadenatefinch, I'm not sure *exactly* why that test is there, but it has the ring of somthinh that mightbe important12:26
fwereadenatefinch, might it be something to do with restarts at unexpected times?12:26
fwereadenatefinch, actually12:27
fwereadenatefinch, AddAll must surely be valid with no changes12:27
fwereadenatefinch, we do it at the end of every hook12:27
fwereadenatefinch, whether or not the charm wrote anything or not12:27
fwereadenatefinch, does that apply?12:27
natefinchfwereade: yep, that makes it clear I need to swallow the error12:28
dimiternfwereade, ping13:34
dimiternfwereade, when you have some time perhaps we can go over the API document and verify if it makes sense (I'm done with what we discussed last week I think)13:35
natefinchfwereade, rogpeppe: Code added to squelch addall error:  https://codereview.appspot.com/4947004713:35
dimiternhazmat, ping13:54
dimiternhazmat, i'm not sure what's not clear with the API specification goals - bulk operations are described, and ease of use from the client is not terribly reduced (not much more so than for agents)13:55
adeuringcould somebody please have a look here: https://code.launchpad.net/~adeuring/juju-core/1117173/+merge/201417 ?14:05
dimiternadeuring, looking14:06
adeuringdimitern: thanks!14:06
adeuringdimitern: also this link https://codereview.appspot.com/5128004514:07
dimiternadeuring, ah, nicer, thanks14:07
dimiternadeuring, reviewed; please link the branch to bug 111717314:15
_mup_Bug #1117173: Validating config could have better errors <compat> <config> <docs> <improvement> <polish> <juju-core:Triaged by adeuring> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1117173>14:15
adeuringdimitern: thanks!14:15
rogpeppedimitern, fwereade, jam, natefinch: review anyone? it's just an upgrade to checkers.DeepEquals, but it's saved lots of time for me, so i'd like to integrate it. https://codereview.appspot.com/51480043/15:21
dimiternrogpeppe, i'll take a look in m15:23
dimitern10 minutes15:23
rogpeppedimitern: thanks15:23
dimiternrogpeppe, LGTM15:28
rogpeppedimitern: ta!15:28
rogpeppedimitern: sorry about the lack of specific tests, but this is just test code - we will see if there are problems. i don't want to spend any more time on it, if that's ok15:30
natefinchrogpeppe: I can review it15:30
natefinchrogpeppe: bah, missed that dimitern already did15:30
rogpeppenatefinch: np, thanks anyway15:30
dimiternrogpeppe, it's not absolutely necessary, but it would be nice - esp. to show off the better error messages ;)15:30
rogpeppedimitern: oh ok then :-)15:31
dimiternrogpeppe, cheers!15:32
natefinchrogpeppe: I'm worried about nil slice == empty slice.  I know it's handy a lot of the time, but sometimes they mean different things.15:34
=== dames is now known as thedac
jamrogpeppe: natefinch: DeepSimilar ?15:50
natefinchjam: DeepCloseEnough?15:50
rogpeppenatefinch: if you can think of a concrete instance where we care, i'd like to know. it's caused us far too much pain in the past, and some of our tests are contorted because of it15:51
natefinchrogpeppe: I know, I know. I have done the contortions, and it's a pain in the butt. I don't know of a specific case.15:52
natefinchrogpeppe: maybe we can make a general guideline of "please don't do that" for relying on nil vs empty slices15:52
rogpeppenatefinch: agreed15:52
natefinchrogpeppe: and if you need it, well, then you're stuck DeepEquals, and good luck15:53
rogpeppedimitern: i've added error messages to all the tests16:08
rogpeppenatefinch: how close are you to landing https://codereview.appspot.com/49470047/ ?16:36
natefinchrogpeppe: should be in the process thereof16:37
rogpeppenatefinch: great16:38
natefinchrogpeppe: foiled by my own flaky mongo tests..... I'll repropose.  Maybe I should be working with fwereade on getting tests to pass reliably. (also need to get the mongo Tag stuff in, which is also failing on the bot due to flaky tests)16:48
rogpeppenatefinch: i can't get tests to pass on my machine currently16:49
natefinchrogpeppe: dang...16:49
rogpeppenatefinch: i think i might work on getting tests to pass reliably - it's taking too much of my time as it is16:49
natefinchrogpeppe: definitely a problem.  Sorry for the delays it has caused... they pass really reliably on my machine :/16:50
natefinchrogpeppe: the mongo replica set tests, at least16:51
rogpeppenatefinch: the replicaset tests weren't the ones that were failing for me16:51
rogpeppenatefinch: i'm getting lots of "Waiting for sockets to die"16:52
natefinchrogpeppe: oh, well, nevermind then :)   The spurious failure I just had with the git branch was with the replica set tests....16:52
natefinchrogpeppe: oh yeah, I see that all the time.  Annoying.16:52
rogpeppenatefinch: i still can't repro it reliably16:52
natefinchrogpeppe: me either... but it happens pretty frequently for me, like 30% of the time, maybe?16:54
jamespagesinzui, I should have qualified my bug report re local provider terminate-machine - thats with 1.17.017:06
sinzuijamespage, it is always helpful. I will note that and add it to 1.17.117:07
natefinchrogpeppe: that fix to the git tests just landed btw17:13
natefinchrogpeppe: make your life a little bit easier at least17:13
rogpeppenatefinch: thanks17:14
rogpeppenatefinch: how's the replicaset branch?17:14
natefinchrogpeppe: just looking at it now.  there's a couple tests that failed last time on the bot that I'm trying to make more reliable17:15
rogpeppeanyone fancy giving this a review? https://codereview.appspot.com/49920045/17:39
rogpeppenatefinch: i think you said you'd have a look last night - did you have any unpublished comments?17:39
natefinchrogpeppe: sorry,  I got halfway through.  I'll finish the rest of it right now17:42
rogpeppenatefinch: np17:42
rogpeppenatefinch: i'm thinking about renaming "candidate" to "wantsVote" BTW17:42
natefinchrogpeppe:  that seems clearer to me, yeah17:43
rogpeppenatefinch: consider it done17:44
rogpeppefwereade: ping17:58
natefinchrogpeppe: there's no difference between make(map[string]string) and  map[string]string{}  right?'18:00
rogpeppenatefinch: that's right18:00
natefinchrogpeppe: I thought so, but then managed to convince myself I might be wrong.18:01
rogpeppenatefinch: personally i think that when initialising an empty map, the former is marginally clearer because you see the "make" right at the start of the expression18:01
natefinchrogpeppe: I like the latter because there's less garbage in the way of the type... the make and the parens just obscure the type for me. Also, it's how the rest of the types are initialized, and there's really no other reason for map[x]y to be in an assignment except if you're making a new one.  Plus it's just fewer characters.   But, I don't really care that much.18:11
rogpeppenatefinch: i use make for making slices too18:11
natefinchrogpeppe: I use make only when need to set length or cap18:12
rogpeppenatefinch: me too18:12
rogpeppenatefinch: otherwise just var x []int18:12
rogpeppenatefinch: i've updated that CL if you want to take another look. https://codereview.appspot.com/4992004519:36
natefinchrogpeppe: cool, looking19:37
rogpeppenatefinch: one additional change i made was to take mongoPort out of peerGroupInfo, which makes it possible to have machines with different ports for testing19:37
natefinchrogpeppe: nice19:38
natefinchrogpeppe: I think I saw Dave had a min/max package that had specific functions for each numeric type... but I can't find it now19:42
rogpeppenatefinch: i don't think that was seriously intended19:43
rogpeppenatefinch: i couldn't care less about reimplementing min19:43
natefinchrogpeppe: right19:43
rogpeppenatefinch: hmm, those tests should not be passing19:46
natefinchrogpeppe: that sounds bad19:46
rogpeppenatefinch: it's not bad as such, but it makes me worried there might be a go bug19:47
thumperhi natefinch, rogpeppe19:47
rogpeppethumper: yo!19:47
natefincho/ thumper19:47
rogpeppethumper: happy new year!19:47
thumperI have a question for you two19:47
thumperI was trying to help waigani with lbox yesterday19:47
thumpernew guy19:47
thumperbut we couldn't get it logging in right19:48
thumperit has been too long since I set up mine19:48
thumperis there a step we are missing?19:48
natefinchthumper: I had to log in with my gmail account, couldn't do it with my canonical account for whatever reason.19:48
rogpeppenatefinch: did it prompt for the password?19:49
natefinchrogpeppe: yep19:49
thumperwaigani: meet rogpeppe and natefinch19:49
rogpeppenatefinch: sorry, i meant to address that to thumper19:49
rogpeppewaigani: hello there19:50
natefinchrogpeppe: or rather, it does now.  I don't know about using my canonical address since that was 6 months ago at this point19:50
thumperrogpeppe: yeah, the password prompt came up19:50
natefinchwaigani: howdy19:50
thumperrogpeppe: but it kept saying it was wrong19:50
natefinchthumper: I think that's what happened to me. I never did figure it out.19:54
rogpeppenatefinch: i've got to go now, but please ponder this conundrum: if map iteration order is random, how come the map iteration over members at the end of desiredPeerGroup is always returning a slice in the same (expected) order?19:55
rogpeppenatefinch: it's really weird, and it feels like it just might be a golang bug, although that would be most unexpected19:55
natefinchrogpeppe: hrm... I had thought they purposely made map iteration random so people couldn't depend on it, even though there's really no reason for it to be random in the current implementation19:56
rogpeppenatefinch: *exactly*19:56
rogpeppenatefinch: so why are my tests passing reliably?19:56
rogpeppenatefinch: (i made a very simple test to verify that it doesn't happen for all maps)19:56
rogpeppeanyway, gotta go19:57
rogpeppeg'night all19:57
thumpernatefinch: as far as ordering goes, what you get order is different from what is guaranteed19:58
thumperif the language doesn't define an order19:58
thumperthe language implementation can change, and ordering will change, and the language lawyers can say "we did nothing wrong"19:58
natefinchthumper: yes, that's why they made map iteration non-deterministic. However, roger was saying that his code reliably turns a map into the same slice, despite that fact.19:59
thumperso for now it may just be a happy coincidence20:00
thumperbut we shouldn't rely on that fact20:00
natefinchthumper: right, but his tests are relying on it, I think is the problem20:00
thumpernatefinch: do all the tests pass on trusty now?20:03
thumpernatefinch: if they do, I may upgrade20:03
natefinchthumper: not sure.  I'm on saucy still, just had the new git for whatever reason20:04
thumpershould ask rog I guess20:06
thumperhe is on trusty20:06
thumperI think20:06
natefinchthumper: yep, he is20:06
sinzuihi thumper. I am not sure bug 1268689 is a Juju issue. It might be cloud-init, or possible the cloud-archive packages. What say you?20:45
_mup_Bug #1268689: juju on 12.04 can't install packages in lxc containers <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1268689>20:45
thumpersinzui: otp, will look shortly20:46
thumpersinzui: looked21:18
thumpersinzui: it reminds me of an issue we have had before21:18
thumpersinzui: where the default packages failed to install correctly21:19
thumpernormally an intermittent failure21:19
thumperdue to updates in the archive21:19
sinzuithank you thumper.21:19
thumpersinzui: can I get you to add ~waigani to the ~juju team plz?21:23
sinzuithumper, done21:25
thumpersinzui: ta21:37
fwereadewaigani, welcome22:52
fwereadewaigani, sorry I wasn't around yesterday22:52
fwereadehi thumper22:52
waiganifwereade: hello :)22:52
waiganii've spent the morning deprogramming my osX habits and getting use to Ubuntu22:53
waiganiinstalled on macbook pro - a few drivers and cards issues to work through. but it all seems to be working now.22:54
thumperfwereade: hi, I'm just off to the gym22:54
fwereadewaigani, cool22:55
=== thumper is now known as thumper-gym

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