[00:14] <jarkko> anyone here?
[00:14] <valorie> keep in mind it's Sunday, and night in Europe
[00:14] <shadeslayer> hi
[00:15] <valorie> how's india, shadeslayer?
[00:15] <shadeslayer> jarkko: ssup
[00:15] <shadeslayer> valorie: cold
[00:15] <valorie> colder than Barcelona!?
[00:15] <shadeslayer> I was internetless for 4 hours :(
[00:15] <shadeslayer> valorie: yeah :P
[00:15] <valorie> ewwwww
[00:16] <shadeslayer> valorie: OTOH less cold than the US :D
[00:19] <shadeslayer> jarkko: you had a question?
[00:19] <jarkko> /etc/lsb-release this file should be upgraded where to report?
[00:19] <shadeslayer> for which release?
[00:19] <jarkko> i am using kubuntu 13.10 and it says i have ubuntu
[00:20] <shadeslayer> I believe that is correct
[00:20] <jarkko> you might be right
[00:20] <shadeslayer> We don't ship different lsb-release files for different flavors
[00:21] <jarkko> but its kinda funny that when you open steam it says about ubuntu, when i am running kubuntu
[00:21] <shadeslayer> well you are running ubuntu
[00:21] <shadeslayer> just a different flavor of it
[00:21] <jarkko> kinda
[00:21] <shadeslayer> kinda? but you are running Ubuntu ....
[00:21] <valorie> ubuntu underneath, KDE on the desktop
[00:21] <jarkko> the desktop is very different
[00:22] <valorie> all the flavors have different desktops
[00:22] <shadeslayer> sure, but all of them share that file and steam on all flavors will report Ubuntu
[00:22] <jarkko> do you know what is going to change in 14.04?
[00:22] <jarkko> if anything?
[00:22] <jarkko> any blog to read?
[00:23] <shadeslayer> jarkko: mostly dropping pm-utils, KDE version, and other under the hood changes
[00:23] <shadeslayer> https://trello.com/b/s8tG9Zlf/14-04
[00:24] <shadeslayer> lists the stuff we've been working on in the "Done" column
[00:29] <jarkko> how does the bug thing develop meanwhile is it increasing or decreasing or being same?
[00:30] <shadeslayer> bug thing?
[00:31] <jarkko> bugs
[00:32] <shadeslayer> I really don't follow ...
[00:37] <jarkko> is the amount of known bugs decreasing or increasing?
[00:38] <jarkko> nice interface
[00:40] <valorie> jarkko: we keep track of both launchpad bugs and some upstream KDE bugs
[00:40] <shadeslayer> no clue :(
[00:40] <valorie> and sometimes Debian stuff as well
[00:40] <shadeslayer> since alot of people don't report bugs ...
[00:40] <shadeslayer> until release day
[00:41] <valorie> numbers are sort of meaningless -- what counts is accurate information, and finding the person who can fix whatever is specifically wrong
[00:41] <jarkko> do you know how many people participate on beta testing?
[00:41] <Riddell> "no metrics" :)
[00:41] <shadeslayer> ^^
[00:42] <jarkko> i bet many dont  report even after the release
[00:42] <jarkko> you need to have somekind of knowledge to make bug report
[00:42] <shadeslayer> re beta testing, 4 ... 5 max I suppose
[00:42] <shadeslayer> atleast the ones I know of
[00:44] <jarkko> you mean only 4-5 people test before beta?
[00:44] <jarkko> are they just users or full time devs?
[00:46] <valorie> jarkko: there are specific tests which are done
[00:47] <valorie> we call for testers and those who answer the call are heroes
[00:47] <jarkko> lol
[00:48] <jarkko> would help all of if more peopel would involve
[00:48] <jarkko> people
[01:39] <valorie> jarkko: it would indeed
[01:39] <valorie> so drag your friends and neighbors along in the testing adventure
[02:06] <jarkko> getting involved should be very easy
[02:07] <valorie> any help making it easier is welcome
[02:07] <jarkko> i doubt that many so called average user doesnt know how to submit bugs into launchpad
[02:07] <valorie> personally, I find the testing website to be very difficult to navigate
[02:08] <jarkko> i have been interested few times to get into kde developemnt, getting the tools and source but i find it that kde website is not userfriendly
[02:08] <jarkko> but i went today wayland website, 1st time and they had everything clear there
[02:10] <valorie> cool
[02:10] <jarkko> see yourself
[02:11] <jarkko> http://wayland.freedesktop.org/
[02:11] <valorie> you might find http://flossmanuals.net/kde-guide/ useful
[02:11] <valorie> we wrote it for beginning devels
[02:12] <valorie> so you found techbase difficult to penetrate?
[02:13] <jarkko> well i pressed here and there links and it felt that i am just getting forwarded to another page and everything is so unclear
[02:13] <jarkko> why they just could not say that you need this tool and this, and they can be downloaded here etc
[02:14] <valorie> http://techbase.kde.org should be that page
[02:14] <valorie> boo if it is not
[02:14] <valorie> even the book is linked there, i think
[02:15] <valorie> some people prefer a guide they can download
[02:15] <valorie> available as epub and pdf
[02:15] <apb1963> I can't help but wonder why those links aren't in the topic
[02:15] <valorie> of this channels?
[02:15] <valorie> -s
[02:15] <apb1963> yes
[02:16] <valorie> this chan is for developing and packaging kubuntu
[02:16] <valorie> dunno if #kde-devel has the link in their topic
 i have been interested few times to get into kde developemnt, getting the tools and source but i find it that kde website is not userfriendly
[02:16] <valorie> but we do in #kde-soc, where a lot of students beging
[02:16] <valorie> begin
[02:17] <apb1963> ugh.  I didn't know this channel even existed until today
[02:17] <apb1963> now there's two more you've pointed to
[02:17] <valorie> had I been asked this question in #kubuntu I would have pointed people there
[02:17] <valorie> apb1963: you might find alis useful
[02:17] <valorie> !alis
[02:17] <apb1963>  <jarkko> well i pressed here and there links and it felt that i am just getting forwarded to another page and everything is so unclear
[02:17] <valorie> yes, which is why IRC is so great
[02:18] <valorie> one can ask questions and usually talk to someone
[02:18] <valorie> if patience is used
[02:18] <valorie> :-)
[02:18] <valorie> anyway, we're off-topic for this channel
[02:18] <apb1963> I wasn't looking for anything in particular...  but your response indicates you're not interested in making things easier for people - which is precisely the complaint jarkko had.
[02:19] <valorie> apb1963: I'm not understanding your point
[02:19] <apb1963> yes I see that
[02:19] <apb1963> no matter
[02:19] <apb1963> I don't care
[02:19] <valorie> putting random links into the topics of unrelated channels is only confusing
[02:19] <apb1963> random yes... relevant, no.
[02:19] <valorie> right
[02:20] <apb1963> or rather I should say - related
[02:20] <valorie> so KDE devel isn't relevant
[02:20] <valorie> sure it's related
[02:20] <valorie> I agree
[02:20] <apb1963> and so we come full circle back to <apb1963> I can't help but wonder why those links aren't in the topic
[02:21] <valorie> because KDE development is not relevant to *this* channel
[02:21] <valorie> Kubuntu is a distribution
[02:21] <valorie> KDE is a community which produces a desktop
[02:22] <valorie> related, yes
[02:22] <apb1963> Is it?  Because the folks in #kubuntu couldn't tell me the difference between kubuntu and kde running on ubuntu
[02:22] <valorie> believe me, I'm one of the authors of that book
[02:22] <valorie> I'd love to put the link *everywhere*
[02:23] <valorie> kubuntu is kde running on ubuntu
[02:23] <apb1963> You just said kubuntu is a distribution
[02:23] <jarkko> does kubuntu make any changes to kde that is distributed by kde website?
[02:23] <apb1963> and that  <valorie> KDE is a community which produces a desktop
[02:23] <valorie> right, we distribute the packages necessary to run KDE on ubuntu
[02:24] <valorie> ok, necessary to run the KDE software on Ubuntu
[02:24] <valorie> jarkko: we patch as little as possible
[02:24] <valorie> probably a bit more heavily for backports and such
[02:26] <valorie> we upstream all the patches possible, to debian or KDE
[02:26] <jarkko> how about kernel?
[02:26] <jarkko> how much is it patched?
[02:26] <valorie> we don't deal with the kernel; the ubuntu-kernel people do that
[02:27] <valorie> as to how much it is patched, I don't know
[02:27] <apb1963> I started with the minimal install iso.  I then installed kubuntu-desktop.  I was told: [08:29] <BluesKaj> no you have kde
[02:27] <valorie> most desktop stuff doesn't directly touch the kernel
[02:28] <valorie> apb1963: he was sort of splitting hairs
[02:28] <jarkko> lol
[02:28] <valorie> since the mini-ISO + Kubuntu-desktop is not identical to the manifest of the Kubuntu ISO
[02:28] <jarkko> if someone instals ubuntu and then installs another DE on top of that where should he report bugs ;)
[02:29] <valorie> launchpad, unless the bug is in KDE
[02:29] <valorie> the trick is knowing the difference
[02:29] <apb1963> [08:27] <apb1963> is there a way to be sure?   [08:28] <BluesKaj> yes, open a terminal ,  kde4-config --version
[02:29] <apb1963> which resulted in his above response
[02:30] <valorie> $ kde4-config --version
[02:30] <valorie> Qt: 4.8.4
[02:30] <valorie> KDE Development Platform: 4.12.0
[02:30] <valorie> kde4-config: 1.0
[02:30] <valorie> for me
[02:30] <apb1963> $  kde4-config --version
[02:30] <apb1963> Qt: 4.8.2
[02:31] <apb1963> KDE Development Platform: 4.12.0
[02:31] <apb1963> kde4-config: 1.0
[02:31] <valorie> interesting that we differ in Qt version
[02:31] <jarkko> i got  Qt: 4.8.4
[02:32] <valorie> if you want to run pure KDE almost directly from git, you can use project-neon
[02:32] <apb1963> I might also point out that I get lots of crashes of various apps... and load spikes that are significant - up to 30 and over sometimes.
[02:33] <jarkko> kde is changing from GTK to QT? i am not even sure if my claim is right and people talk about it on phoronix, what does it mean in practice?
[02:33] <valorie> #project-neon for support
[02:33] <valorie> wah?
[02:33] <valorie> KDE has always used Qt
[02:33] <valorie> it's GNOME that used gtk
[02:33] <jarkko> dont remember the thing right then
[02:34] <jarkko> but its developemnt related that kde is changing something and people argue about it
[02:34] <valorie> Ubuntu is changing to Qt in some areas
[02:34] <valorie> jarkko: KDE is readying for Wayland
[02:34] <apb1963> $  kde4-config --version
[02:34] <apb1963> Qt: 4.8.2
[02:34] <valorie> that isn't controversial; everyone is
[02:34] <apb1963> KDE Development Platform: 4.12.0
[02:34] <apb1963> kde4-config: 1.0
[02:34] <apb1963> ugh.  sorry
[02:35] <valorie> what is controversial is that Ubuntu is planning instead to do their own; Mir rather than Wayland
[02:35] <valorie> they are alone in that
[02:35] <jarkko> but thats not the thing i was thinking
[02:35] <valorie> Qt and gtk are devel toolkits for C++ and C
[02:36] <jarkko> that could be
[02:36] <valorie> Mir and Wayland are the way forward from X.org
[02:36] <valorie> two entirely different things
[02:36] <jarkko> why people dont see future on xorg?
[02:37] <jarkko> why make another display server (or whatever it is)
[02:39] <valorie> it is the x people who are creating wayland
[02:39] <valorie> they've sort of come to the end of the line in what's possible there, i guess
[02:40] <apb1963> I think this philisophical discussion is wonderful.  However, I'd like to point out that I get lots of crashes of various apps... and load spikes that are significant - up to 30 and over sometimes.       <<<<< this is important to me.  Even when my load hovers around 1.0 the machine is sluggish, and causes problems with softphone conversations: jitsi, sflphone, zoiper.
[02:40] <apb1963> Even my mouse and keyboard get sluggish
[02:40] <valorie> ok, please lets take this back to #kubuntu
[02:40] <valorie> we are entirely off-topic here now
[02:41] <apb1963> crashes and poor performance are off-topic?
[02:41] <apb1963> ok.....
[02:43] <valorie> yes, in -devel
[02:44] <apb1963> I would think that would be of paramount importance to developers
[02:44] <apb1963> What could possibly be more important to a developer than software that's not working?
[02:44] <valorie> once the bugs are filed, yes
[02:44] <valorie> but most people here are not KDE application devels
[02:45] <apb1963> But are application packagers
[02:45] <apb1963> I see
[02:45] <valorie> among other things, yes
[03:01] <ahoneybun> howdy valorie
[03:02] <valorie> good eveing
[03:02] <valorie> evening
[03:05] <ahoneybun> yep a good sunday
[03:17] <shadeslayer> All kubuntu ISO's from this day forth shall be pm-utils free \o/
[03:17] <shadeslayer> I can already see the users prancing around in their pm-utils free pastures
[03:18] <jarkko> what that mean in practise?
[03:18] <jarkko> not familiar with the claim
[03:18] <shadeslayer> just kicked out an outdated piece of software ?
[03:21] <mamarley> shadeslayer: But what about the /usr/lib/pm-utils/power.d scripts?  What replaces the functionality of those?
[03:25] <shadeslayer> looking
[03:25] <mamarley> I would guess a systemd thing, but I couldn't find any documentation about it.
[03:26] <shadeslayer> I suppose upstart takes care of everything ....
[03:26] <mamarley> Oh, upstart does that now...
[03:26] <shadeslayer> mamarley: upstart exposes logind interfaces now
[03:29] <shadeslayer> and I'm presuming upstart handles all suspending issues internally or whatever
[03:29] <shadeslayer> mamarley: I asked for testing last week and no one replied
[03:29] <shadeslayer> now is the time to break it, else it'll be too late
[03:29] <shadeslayer> if people complain it doesn't work, I'll add it back again
[03:30] <mamarley> So just uninstall pm-utils?
[03:30] <shadeslayer> yep
[03:30] <shadeslayer> and upgrade trusty
[03:30] <jarkko> when trusty  ppa comes available?
[03:30] <mamarley> I am already running Trusty.
[03:31] <jarkko> can you upgrade 13.10 --> 14.04 via command line?
[03:31] <shadeslayer> oh huh, ubuntu still has pm-utils, I thought they dropped it, maybe I shouldn't have done that
[03:31] <shadeslayer> mamarley: cool
[03:31] <shadeslayer> jarkko: why would you need a trusty PPA right now?
[03:31] <jarkko> well thats like asking why do you need linux
[03:31] <mamarley> shadeslayer: Yeah, I think it is still used for stuff like putting the WiFi adapters and soundcards and such in powersaving mode.
[03:31] <jarkko> i dont need it, but if i wanted to try
[03:32] <shadeslayer> jarkko: okay, what do you need a trusty ppa for?
[03:32] <jarkko> just try it out
[03:32] <shadeslayer> try out what?
[03:32] <jarkko> i have done that earlier too
[03:32] <jarkko> how the new version behaves
[03:33] <shadeslayer> you have to upgrade your system, there is no 'trusty ppa' to try out trusty
[03:33] <jarkko> earlier there have been?
[03:33] <jarkko> must been
[03:34] <jarkko> ubuntu has its own bug reporting on launchpad, which is divided raring, trusty saucy etc...are these bugs somehow or anyway merged with other distros which may have the same bug? debian for example
[03:35] <shadeslayer> sure
[03:35] <jarkko> how is it done
[03:35] <shadeslayer> you add a remote bug watch
[03:35] <shadeslayer> "Also affects Distribution/Project" link on the bug
[03:35] <jarkko> i havent seen that
[03:35] <jarkko> or dont remember
[03:36] <jarkko> well that's great
[03:36] <jarkko> more eyes to look for the bugs
[03:49] <jarkko> how kubuntu decides what direction it takes
[03:49] <jarkko> what packages are used
[03:49] <shadeslayer> discussed on kubuntu-devel
[03:50] <jarkko> for example mesa, who decides when it gets updated?
[03:51] <jarkko> is there a wiki how kubuntu is developed?
[03:51] <shadeslayer> mesa is usually not our decision, that's taken by the X team
[03:51] <shadeslayer> we primarily deal with KDE and kde related deps
[03:51] <jarkko> what's X team?
[03:51] <jarkko> x.org?
[03:53] <shadeslayer> #ubuntu-
[03:53] <shadeslayer> erm
[03:53] <shadeslayer> #ubuntu-x
[03:55] <jarkko> trying to start conversation there now
[03:59]  * shadeslayer goes  off to look into Qt 4.8.5 merge
[05:21] <shadeslayer> Riddell: I don't suppose you're up right now
[07:34] <shadeslayer> mitya57: I plan on uploading qt4-x11 today
[07:35] <shadeslayer> mitya57: anything that I should do post upload? like recompiling things or sth?
[07:35] <shadeslayer> I've never uploaded qt merges
[07:46] <mitya57> shadeslayer: No, rebuilds are not needed
[07:46] <shadeslayer> ack
[07:46] <mitya57> shadeslayer: Did you see that Debian pushed a new snapshot yesterday?
[07:46] <shadeslayer> okay, going to upload now then :)
[07:46] <shadeslayer> I did not
[07:46] <shadeslayer> mitya57: lets push this now, and then work on the new snapshot
[07:47] <mitya57> Ok
[07:47] <shadeslayer> it's been on my todo for a week now, I want to get it out of the way
[07:47] <mitya57> ++
[09:12] <lordievader> Good morning.
[09:43] <soee> tomorrow KDE 4.12.1 ?
[09:44] <shadeslayer> soee: building for trusty
[09:44] <shadeslayer> so maybe
[09:44] <soee> oh nice :)
[09:44] <shadeslayer> http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ninjas-status/build_status_4.12.1_trusty.html
[09:48] <Riddell> shadeslayer: you pinged?
[09:48] <shadeslayer> Riddell: yeah, 4.12.1 in ninjas
[09:49] <Riddell> groovy
[09:49] <Riddell> think I'm still wanting to do KF5 for now unless I'm needed on it especially
[09:49] <Riddell> although got a funeral of an elderly family friend today so need to take a few hours away
[09:50] <shadeslayer> okie, the ping was to ask if you could upload since I dont have a good connection
[09:50] <shadeslayer> I uploaded via another server instead
[09:55] <Riddell> ec2 is your friend
[09:56] <shadeslayer> *nod*
[09:57] <Riddell> "other cloud platforms are available"
[09:57] <shadeslayer> power outage :S
[10:14] <yofel> !testers | 4.11.5 in ninjas needs testing for saucy
[10:14] <yofel> if someone still runs that
[10:14] <soee> i can test tomorrow @ work
[10:14] <soee> here on laptop im on trusty
[10:14] <lordievader> yofel: Not on my testing machine, sorry.
[10:20] <mitya57> shadeslayer: Great work, it even built on ppc64el!
[10:20] <shadeslayer> mitya57: :D
[10:21]  * mitya57 wonders why ppc64el was so fast
[10:36] <apachelogger> now the amd64 iso is oversized
[10:36] <apachelogger> for the love of darth vader :@
[10:38] <apachelogger> libicu has increased fattyness
[10:39] <apachelogger> oho
[10:39] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: are you going to upload meta or something?
[10:39] <shadeslayer> I shall
[10:39] <shadeslayer> updating meta right now
[10:40] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: you may want to hold that for a bit
[10:40] <apachelogger> doing some seed shuffling
[10:40] <shadeslayer> oh?
[10:40] <shadeslayer> what sort of seed shuffling
[10:41] <shadeslayer> well, pft http://pastebin.kde.org/pbwcwxzbi
[10:41] <apachelogger> the let's remove stuff that we don't need kind
[10:41] <apachelogger> !info plasma-widgets-addons
[10:42] <apachelogger> why that is on the ISO do not know
[10:42] <apachelogger> ah yes
[10:42] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: plasma-runner-telepathy-contact
[10:42] <apachelogger> what's the rationale for having that?
[10:42] <shadeslayer> we had a request on the ML, and it made sense
[10:42] <shadeslayer> launching IM chats via krunner
[10:43] <shadeslayer> also useful in homerun IIRC
[10:44] <apachelogger> oh homerun, yeah
[10:44] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: did upstream request that we ship that or something?
[10:44] <shadeslayer> no, user request
[10:44] <apachelogger> because to me it seems slighly not useful to the target audience
[10:44] <shadeslayer> though upstream asked why we already didn't ship that
[10:45] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: see "Package proposal for trusty" 
[10:45] <apachelogger> going to see bzr log and if it doesn't have refences I will get my rocket launcher
[10:46] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: doesn't have any references
[10:47] <shadeslayer> "  add plasma-runner-telepathy-contact" is all the commit message says :)
[10:47] <apachelogger> mine will say "bye bye"
[10:47] <apachelogger> to be equally useful
[10:48] <apachelogger> I still think * (colord-kde) is the most atrocious thing
[10:48] <apachelogger> gives me WTF whenever I see it
[10:48] <apachelogger> and when I see colord in ps -A it gives me WTF^2
[10:53] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: the ubuntu-driver stuff really needs to get sorted
[10:54] <yofel> well, you haven't written that new way of on-demand-installing-stuff that you were talking about a few releases ago
[10:54] <apachelogger> I am working based on assumptions here
[10:54] <apachelogger> I do not like it
[10:54] <apachelogger> yofel: how does that affect colord?
[10:54] <apachelogger> there is no reason why a normal person would use colord
[10:54] <apachelogger> none
[10:54] <yofel> well, and a user that wants color correction is supposed to know about colord?
[10:55] <apachelogger> well no
[10:55] <apachelogger> they'd enter color correction in muon and kcm-colord should turn up
[10:55] <apachelogger> which in turn will bring in colord
[10:55] <yofel> ok, that sounds kinda reasonable..
[10:56]  * apachelogger checks
[10:56] <apachelogger> aint no kcm there
[10:56] <apachelogger> actually that may be an app-data issue
[10:57] <apachelogger> kcm desktop files are not in share/applications so they might not get picked up
[10:58] <apachelogger> !info kde-zeroconf
[10:59] <apachelogger> Extra fonts (should be common, but not so for space reasons):
[10:59] <apachelogger>  * (ttf-wqy-microhei)
[10:59] <apachelogger>  * (fonts-nanum)
[11:00] <apachelogger> considering we have space issues, shouldn't we remove one of those?
[11:01] <apachelogger> Application Install Tool for Whore^WHoary Hedgehog
[11:01] <apachelogger> and people complain when I swear on IRC
[11:03] <shadeslayer> I think you wanted to drop kde-zeroconf no?
[11:03] <shadeslayer> IIRC you raised that on the ML
[11:03]  * shadeslayer is +1 on that
[11:03] <apachelogger> I did?
[11:03] <apachelogger> I certainly had it in the review
[11:04] <apachelogger> that's not kde-zeroconf as it turns out
[11:04] <apachelogger> the kcm I was talking about is smushed into kde-runtime
[12:34]  * Quintasan tests 4.11.5
[12:35] <Quintasan> yofel: it's in Ninjas PPA/
[12:35] <Quintasan> ?
[12:39] <yofel> yes
[12:43] <mamarley> 4.11.5 has a jerkiness problem with Nvidia GPUs and the binary driver.
[12:43] <mamarley> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=329821
[12:48]  * Riddell wander back
[12:54] <Quintasan> yofel: Upgrade went flawlessly
[12:54] <Quintasan> I'll restart X
[12:58] <apachelogger> oho
[12:58] <apachelogger> talking about upgrade
[12:58] <apachelogger> we need LTS upgrade testerooo
[12:58] <Quintasan> No problems whatsover after reboot
[12:58] <Quintasan> apachelogger: as in from precise to trusty?
[12:59] <apachelogger> yuz
[12:59] <Quintasan> I think I can install trusty when I'm done with setting up RAID and LVM on my data hdds
[13:00] <Quintasan> mamarley: no jerkiness problem here
[13:05] <mamarley> Quintasan: Are you using an Nvidia card?  If so, which driver version?
[13:05] <Quintasan> hmm
[13:05] <Quintasan> how did I end up with no binary blob
[13:05] <Quintasan> mamarley: disregard this, I somehow don't have binary blob installed
[13:06] <mamarley> Quintasan: That would be why.  The jerkiness only occurs with the blob, and at that, only versions that support GLX_EXT_BUFFER_AGE.
[13:27] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[13:27] <apachelogger> Reading symbols from /opt/project-neon5/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/liboxygenstyle.so.5...Reading symbols from /usr/lib/debug/opt/project-neon5/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/liboxygenstyle.so.5.0.0...(no debugging symbols found)...done
[13:28] <apachelogger> yofel: somehow I managed to break dbg generation
[13:28] <apachelogger> assumed it worked at some point
[13:28] <yofel> uh, they should be there by default unless you're like building in release mode
[13:29] <yofel> or wait, you're missing the dbg package
[13:29] <apachelogger> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6744614/
[13:29] <apachelogger> yofel: ^
[13:29] <apachelogger> log https://launchpadlibrarian.net/162319319/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-amd64.project-neon5-kwindowsystem_0.0%2Bgit20140113.3~22bde8c%2Bneon3~13.10_UPLOADING.txt.gz
[13:31] <apachelogger> fwiw, it works for qt
[13:31] <yofel> hm, looks fine to me? I think the disabling stuff is only about pkg-create-dbgsym
[13:32] <yofel> bah, I don't have neon5 installed here
[13:33] <apachelogger> the backtrace also does not contain the source reference
[13:33] <apachelogger> see https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=329909
[13:33] <apachelogger> so there definitely is something wrong with the strips, I have no idea what though
[13:34] <yofel> tbh, your project-neon5-kwindowsystem-dbg looks perfectly fine to me
[13:34] <yofel> what's liboxygenstyle.so.5 part of?
[13:34] <apachelogger> kde-workspace
[13:34] <apachelogger> also looks fine
[13:35] <apachelogger> nm /usr/lib/debug/opt/project-neon5/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/liboxygenstyle.so.5.0.0 even lists all the symbol names
[13:35] <apachelogger> yet gdb says it didn't find any symbols
[13:35] <apachelogger> I am getting too old for that stuff -.-
[13:36] <apachelogger> no wait, it also loads the symbols apparently
[13:36] <apachelogger> it just doesn't have source refs
[13:36] <apachelogger> yofel: the dbg packages are suspiciously small TBH
[13:37] <apachelogger> maybe it's because we pass both relwithdebinfo and debugfull?
[13:37] <apachelogger> to cmake...
[13:37] <apachelogger> and cmake picks relwithdebinfo
[13:37] <yofel> not sure, the packages are smaller than the archive ones because we use dh8 not 9
[13:38] <yofel> as for the files... I first need to install some
[13:48] <apachelogger> now I can't get it to crash anymore
[13:49] <apachelogger> ohoh
[13:49] <apachelogger> maybe drkonqi in kf5 is fried
[13:50] <apachelogger> #27 0x00007f0984795ead in Oxygen::ComboBoxData::indexChanged() ()
[13:50] <apachelogger>    from /opt/project-neon5/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/plugins/styles/oxygen.so
[13:50] <apachelogger> so something is definitely astray with the symbols
[13:58] <yofel> riiiight...
[13:59] <yofel> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 80K Jan 13 06:21 /usr/lib/debug/opt/project-neon5/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/liboxygenstyle.so.5.0.0
[13:59] <yofel> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1.3M Jan 12 21:07 /usr/lib/debug/opt/project-neon/lib/liboxygenstyle.so.4.12.0
[13:59] <yofel> that doesn't look right
[14:04] <apachelogger> that's what I said
[14:04] <apachelogger> I think debugfull is no longer used
[14:04] <apachelogger> at least I remember some conversation about build types in kf5
[14:05] <apachelogger> yeah
[14:05] <apachelogger> debugfull is replaced by Debug
[14:05] <apachelogger> at least with Debug I get actual source refs and such
[14:07] <apachelogger> Riddell: kindly note that for official kf5 please ^ ..... if we set a specific CMAKE_BUILD_TYPE in some pkg-kde magic check that it is one of the official cmake values (Debug Release RelWithDebInfo MinSizeRel)
[14:07] <apachelogger> otherwise it will likely not work
[14:09] <apachelogger> yofel: relevant commit https://projects.kde.org/projects/kdesupport/extra-cmake-modules/repository/revisions/4068592ad9aa3f241027f6dbd6aff5f756671fd3
[14:09] <yofel> ah ok
[14:10] <apachelogger> fixed
[14:10] <Riddell> apachelogger: we set "Debian"
[14:10] <Riddell> goodness knows what that does
[14:11] <apachelogger> something equal to what debugfull did, but probably still working ;)
[14:12] <apachelogger> actually it's very fancy cmake has magic files specific to compiler and platform and nonsense which can override compiler flags and such to get the best results for the target
[14:13] <apachelogger> so the debian buildtype would contain the general debian flags wrt optimization and debug and whatnot
[14:13] <apachelogger> yofel, shadeslayer: all neon-builder issued builds will get a clean slate build tomorrow to resolve the debug symbols issue
[14:14] <apachelogger> ^ now if only one could make that happen as easily with launchpad :S
[14:14] <yofel> uh, you just make a script that triggers builds for all recipes?
[14:15] <yofel> there's something like that lying around in the tools actually
[14:15] <apachelogger> yeah see, I did not need a script, I just changed a modifier in the recipe :P
[14:15] <yofel> *theoretically* you can include the runtime branch in the package recipe somewhere, then it'll rebuild everything when you change that
[14:15] <yofel> but that's a bit overkill
[14:16] <apachelogger> well
[14:16] <apachelogger> OBS rebuilds every dependee if a build dependency changed
[14:17] <yofel> wait, obs can do that?
[14:17] <apachelogger> yuz
[14:17] <yofel> I guess I simply don't get the interface
[14:17] <apachelogger> might be hidden somewhere
[14:17] <Riddell> it should rebuild based on a commit to the packaging in OBS
[14:17] <Riddell> in practice it depends if there's enough builders free
[14:17] <apachelogger> at a past employment of mine we definitely had git triggers into OBS that would cause a build from git which in turn triggered rebuilds of the dependees
[14:18] <apachelogger> that easily gets out of hand though ^^
[14:19] <apachelogger> particularly if you have no general limit on how often a git build trigger can happen
[14:21] <apachelogger> like if you allow an arbitrary amount... with the only limit being 'if all builders are busy, no triggers can happen' then you still can get yourself into a corner of endless build queue because a change low in the software stack would cause a rebuild of everything, so if you are at 49/50 builders busy and you get such a trigger then effectively you end up at like 10000/50 builders busy ^^
[14:21] <apachelogger> anyway, all I wanted to say, obs can do it :P
[14:21] <apachelogger> the merits and flexibility of it are another topic entirely
[14:34] <Riddell> yofel: jriddell tested 4.11.5 from ninjas on an ec2 saucy with kubuntu-desktop and kde-full installed, upgraded from fresh install, vnc ran the desktop and started some apps fine
[15:06] <yofel> thanks!
[15:10] <mamarley> yofel: Were you able to reproduce the jerkiness?
[15:10] <yofel> hm
[15:10] <yofel> kinda..
[15:10] <yofel> I mean, desktop rendering is kinda sluggy in trusty for me, but I didn't get around to verify that it's kde-workspace that's the problem
[15:11] <mamarley> For me, the easiest way to reproduce the problem is to start something like glxgears and see that it jerks every .5sec or so.
[15:13] <yofel> I didn't see any such rendering corruption like you say, it feels more like crappy FPS, I'll try again later
[15:13] <mamarley> It wasn't corruption, just every half second or so it drops at least 2 frames or so.
[15:39] <Riddell> sgclark: kglobalaccel uploaded!
[15:39] <sgclark> :) morning
[15:40] <sgclark> Riddell: if you could look at kwindowsystem, have a few that depends on it
[15:41]  * Riddell added this patch to kglobalaccel https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/114999/
[15:53] <Riddell> sgclark: I find myself putting newlines at the end of files in your packages for tidyness
[15:53] <Riddell> sgclark: how did you work out that trick with openbox?
[15:53] <sgclark> Riddell: alot of googleing lol
[15:55] <sgclark> Riddell: how do I fix newlines issue? I use kate, sorry learning curve here
[15:56] <Riddell> sgclark: press return at the end of the file :)
[15:57] <sgclark> Riddell: will do
[16:23] <Riddell> kubotu: newversion rekonq 2.4.2
[16:23] <kubotu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1268650
[16:23] <Riddell> "I have now a working fresh KDE frameworks installation here. Rekonq moving starts this afternoon…" grooby
[16:25] <Riddell> kubotu: newversion libssh 0.6.0
[16:25] <Riddell> plantkde is my release notifier
[16:25] <kubotu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1268652
[16:55] <Riddell> sgclark: did you build kauth without polkit?
[16:55] <Riddell> I guess we need to work out a qt5 polkit version
[16:55] <Riddell> I've seen mumblings about this on the packager list
[16:56] <sgclark> I don't know, if it is not in depends then yes
[16:56] <sgclark> I am checking all with pbuilder as well
[16:57] <Riddell> gosh you've mastered all of tier2
[16:57]  * Riddell crowns sgclark the tier2 master
[16:58] <sgclark> Riddell: no crown yet :( I think I have found my defeat, kdoctools... :(
[16:59] <Riddell> sgml is faffy
[17:00] <Riddell> sgclark: kauth I tidied up the description with lines from README.md and http://community.kde.org/Frameworks/List
[17:00] <Riddell> sgclark: I removed extra spaces at the beginning of lines in debian/copyright, again just tidying
[17:00] <Riddell> sgclark: you're allowed to put yourself as XSBC-Original-Maintainer: in debian/control :)
[17:00] <sgclark> Riddell:  manpages are not being built correctly (empty tags) triggering missing name triggering a mess. Through digging I found xml parsing errors. what a mess.
[17:01] <sgclark> Riddell: ok :)
[17:01] <Riddell> sounds like upstream bugs
[17:02] <Riddell> sgclark: I uploaded kauth with notes "file collisions, needs a polkit-qt Qt5 version to build against"
[17:02] <sgclark> Riddell: well one issue is the docbook points to dtd folder that does not exist, so I changed that but it will not parse that at all...
[17:03] <sgclark> Riddell: ok
[17:06] <sgclark> be back in 20ish mins
[17:09] <Riddell> sgclark: kcompletion a work of perfection, uploaded :)
[17:10] <Riddell> sgclark: windowsystem is in so you can get back to knotifications if you want
[17:25] <sgclark> Riddell: ok on it :) could use a break from this kdoctools nightmare lol
[17:26] <Riddell> kcrash too was blocking on it
[17:26] <sgclark> yep
[17:26] <sgclark> will finish both
[17:29] <Riddell> you're awesome!
[17:37] <Riddell> sgclark: I renamed your kdnssd package to kdnssd-framework and it's all good, uploaded
[17:37] <sgclark> Riddell: ok ty, was unsure on that
[17:41]  * Riddell blogs http://blogs.kde.org/2014/01/13/tier-1-slam-dunk
[17:42] <sgclark> ooh thanks for the mention :)
[17:48] <sgclark> Riddell: pressing the return key at the end of the file results in not field-colon-value from debuild
[17:49] <Riddell> huh?
[17:52] <sgclark> dunno, that is error, will try vi
[17:54] <sgclark> Riddell: yup kate is the culprit
[18:02] <sgclark> Riddell: knotifications ready for you
[18:08] <Riddell> sgclark: that debian/rules file doesn't have a newline at the end, it has a newline and then a tab
[18:09] <Riddell> sgclark: cmake/* missing in copyright file (because upstream missed the licence file)
[18:10]  * Riddell fixes upstream
[18:12] <sgclark> ok, kate has been fired. What is a good editor, have used vi a long time but not fast with it.
[18:13] <sgclark> What is the copyright?
[18:13] <sgclark> Riddell: ^^
[18:13] <Riddell> I use emacs and kate
[18:14] <Riddell> sometimes nano
[18:14] <Riddell> sgclark: cmake files tend to be BSD licenced
[18:14] <yofel> mamarley: ok, I think I see what you meant. I had vsync disabled which reduced the effect for me, but with it on it's noticible
[18:14] <Riddell> but upstream keeps missing out the licence file
[18:14] <Riddell> if you find that then just poke me to commit a fix
[18:14] <Riddell> sgclark: knotifications uploaded!
[18:15] <apachelogger> https://github.com/prove/tarantula/blob/master/README.md
[18:16]  * Riddell out
[18:16] <sgclark> Riddell: oh I see, BSD is tough because you have to use as written in file do to them changing it so often
[18:16] <sgclark> and the file is lacking haha
[18:17] <yofel> upstream always forgets to copy licenses when they split stuff up
[18:17] <soee> Riddell: this https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/experimental/+packages
[18:18] <soee> it overwritres current KDE version right ?
[18:24] <mamarley> yofel: Yep, it is really only noticeable with vsync set to anything other than "none."  I tried installing Nvidia 331.38, but there was no effect.
[18:24] <yofel> sgclark: with bsd, you're supposed to tell which it is in the short form (see http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep5/#license-specification), so this would be BSD-3-clause, not just BSD
[18:24] <mamarley> Glad to know I'm not the only one though.
[18:53] <sgclark> yofel: ok thank you, still not sure how to get that as the only thing in the file was BSD as written in a file I could not find, COPYING-CMAKE-SCRIPTS
[18:54] <sgclark> Riddell: figured out that kate was adding indention , fixed
[18:54] <yofel> right, that file needs to be added upstream http://quickgit.kde.org/?p=kdelibs.git&a=blob&h=4b417765f3a834ce6b0a216f6b6c0fe2d3f0bed5&hb=7119220a8fa88b28f56974fc41dc15179b8c1eb4&f=cmake%2Fmodules%2FCOPYING-CMAKE-SCRIPTS
[18:55] <yofel> would be what's missing
[18:55] <sgclark> yofel: oh ok :) thanks
[18:59] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1268690] package libqtdbus4 (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/li... @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1268690 (by dino99)
[18:59] <sgclark> Riddell: kcrash is ready for your review, I have run a quick errand, will be back in a few
[20:00] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1268700] package libqtdbus4 4:4.8.5+git192-g085f851+dfsg-2ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: trying... @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1268700 (by valery karpenko)
[20:46] <jussi> Riddell: ping
[21:01] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1268690] package libqtdbus4 (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/li... @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1268690 (by dino99)
[21:01] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1268709] package libqtdbus4 4:4.8.5+git192-g085f851+dfsg-2ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: trying... @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1268709 (by angel orna)
[21:01] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1268718] package libqtdbus4 (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: próba nadpisania "/usr/lib/... @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1268718 (by Marcin Kralka)
[21:04] <mamarley> Haha.  Duplicates, duplicates, duplicates.
[21:05] <mamarley> yofel: Based on some advice from Thomas Lübking (a kwin developer), I have found that exporting KWIN_TRIPLE_BUFFER=1 (and ensuring triple buffering is on in xorg.conf) before starting kwin causes the jerkiness to go away.
[21:49] <Elv1313_work> Hello, one of my user is reporting this http://pastebin.kde.org/pfnxbpspu on 13.10. qt4-default package is installed on his computer
[22:05] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1268749] package libqtdbus4 (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: попытка переза... @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1268749 (by korziner)
[23:06] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1195007] qt patch introduces fatal gdk_x_error handler @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1195007 (by Patrick Oßmann)
[23:06] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1198627] package libqt4-script 4:4.8.4+dfsg-0: unexpected end of file or stream @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1198627 (by jaya shankar singh)
[23:06] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1198734] package libqt4-declarative 4:4.8.3+dfsg-0ubuntu3 failed to install/upgrade: cannot copy ex... @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1198734 (by Evan Kisbey)
[23:26] <Riddell> jussi: pong