[00:14] anyone here? [00:14] keep in mind it's Sunday, and night in Europe [00:14] hi [00:15] how's india, shadeslayer? [00:15] jarkko: ssup [00:15] valorie: cold [00:15] colder than Barcelona!? [00:15] I was internetless for 4 hours :( [00:15] valorie: yeah :P [00:15] ewwwww [00:16] valorie: OTOH less cold than the US :D [00:19] jarkko: you had a question? [00:19] /etc/lsb-release this file should be upgraded where to report? [00:19] for which release? [00:19] i am using kubuntu 13.10 and it says i have ubuntu [00:20] I believe that is correct [00:20] you might be right [00:20] We don't ship different lsb-release files for different flavors [00:21] but its kinda funny that when you open steam it says about ubuntu, when i am running kubuntu [00:21] well you are running ubuntu [00:21] just a different flavor of it [00:21] kinda [00:21] kinda? but you are running Ubuntu .... [00:21] ubuntu underneath, KDE on the desktop [00:21] the desktop is very different [00:22] all the flavors have different desktops [00:22] sure, but all of them share that file and steam on all flavors will report Ubuntu [00:22] do you know what is going to change in 14.04? [00:22] if anything? [00:22] any blog to read? [00:23] jarkko: mostly dropping pm-utils, KDE version, and other under the hood changes [00:23] https://trello.com/b/s8tG9Zlf/14-04 [00:24] lists the stuff we've been working on in the "Done" column [00:29] how does the bug thing develop meanwhile is it increasing or decreasing or being same? [00:30] bug thing? [00:31] bugs [00:32] I really don't follow ... [00:37] is the amount of known bugs decreasing or increasing? [00:38] nice interface [00:40] jarkko: we keep track of both launchpad bugs and some upstream KDE bugs [00:40] no clue :( [00:40] and sometimes Debian stuff as well [00:40] since alot of people don't report bugs ... [00:40] until release day [00:41] numbers are sort of meaningless -- what counts is accurate information, and finding the person who can fix whatever is specifically wrong [00:41] do you know how many people participate on beta testing? [00:41] "no metrics" :) [00:41] ^^ [00:42] i bet many dont report even after the release [00:42] you need to have somekind of knowledge to make bug report [00:42] re beta testing, 4 ... 5 max I suppose [00:42] atleast the ones I know of [00:44] you mean only 4-5 people test before beta? [00:44] are they just users or full time devs? [00:46] jarkko: there are specific tests which are done [00:47] we call for testers and those who answer the call are heroes [00:47] lol [00:48] would help all of if more peopel would involve [00:48] people [01:39] jarkko: it would indeed [01:39] so drag your friends and neighbors along in the testing adventure [02:06] getting involved should be very easy [02:07] any help making it easier is welcome [02:07] i doubt that many so called average user doesnt know how to submit bugs into launchpad [02:07] personally, I find the testing website to be very difficult to navigate [02:08] i have been interested few times to get into kde developemnt, getting the tools and source but i find it that kde website is not userfriendly [02:08] but i went today wayland website, 1st time and they had everything clear there [02:10] cool [02:10] see yourself [02:11] http://wayland.freedesktop.org/ [02:11] you might find http://flossmanuals.net/kde-guide/ useful [02:11] we wrote it for beginning devels [02:12] so you found techbase difficult to penetrate? [02:13] well i pressed here and there links and it felt that i am just getting forwarded to another page and everything is so unclear [02:13] why they just could not say that you need this tool and this, and they can be downloaded here etc [02:14] http://techbase.kde.org should be that page [02:14] boo if it is not [02:14] even the book is linked there, i think [02:15] some people prefer a guide they can download [02:15] available as epub and pdf [02:15] I can't help but wonder why those links aren't in the topic [02:15] of this channels? [02:15] -s [02:15] yes [02:16] this chan is for developing and packaging kubuntu [02:16] dunno if #kde-devel has the link in their topic [02:16] i have been interested few times to get into kde developemnt, getting the tools and source but i find it that kde website is not userfriendly [02:16] but we do in #kde-soc, where a lot of students beging [02:16] begin [02:17] ugh. I didn't know this channel even existed until today [02:17] now there's two more you've pointed to [02:17] had I been asked this question in #kubuntu I would have pointed people there [02:17] apb1963: you might find alis useful [02:17] !alis [02:17] alis is a services bot that can help you find channels. Read "/msg alis help list" for help and ask any questions about it in #freenode. Example usage: /msg alis list #ubuntu* or /msg alis list *http* [02:17] well i pressed here and there links and it felt that i am just getting forwarded to another page and everything is so unclear [02:17] yes, which is why IRC is so great [02:18] one can ask questions and usually talk to someone [02:18] if patience is used [02:18] :-) [02:18] anyway, we're off-topic for this channel [02:18] I wasn't looking for anything in particular... but your response indicates you're not interested in making things easier for people - which is precisely the complaint jarkko had. [02:19] apb1963: I'm not understanding your point [02:19] yes I see that [02:19] no matter [02:19] I don't care [02:19] putting random links into the topics of unrelated channels is only confusing [02:19] random yes... relevant, no. [02:19] right [02:20] or rather I should say - related [02:20] so KDE devel isn't relevant [02:20] sure it's related [02:20] I agree [02:20] and so we come full circle back to I can't help but wonder why those links aren't in the topic [02:21] because KDE development is not relevant to *this* channel [02:21] Kubuntu is a distribution [02:21] KDE is a community which produces a desktop [02:22] related, yes [02:22] Is it? Because the folks in #kubuntu couldn't tell me the difference between kubuntu and kde running on ubuntu [02:22] believe me, I'm one of the authors of that book [02:22] I'd love to put the link *everywhere* [02:23] kubuntu is kde running on ubuntu [02:23] You just said kubuntu is a distribution [02:23] does kubuntu make any changes to kde that is distributed by kde website? [02:23] and that KDE is a community which produces a desktop [02:23] right, we distribute the packages necessary to run KDE on ubuntu [02:24] ok, necessary to run the KDE software on Ubuntu [02:24] jarkko: we patch as little as possible [02:24] probably a bit more heavily for backports and such [02:26] we upstream all the patches possible, to debian or KDE [02:26] how about kernel? [02:26] how much is it patched? [02:26] we don't deal with the kernel; the ubuntu-kernel people do that [02:27] as to how much it is patched, I don't know [02:27] I started with the minimal install iso. I then installed kubuntu-desktop. I was told: [08:29] no you have kde [02:27] most desktop stuff doesn't directly touch the kernel [02:28] apb1963: he was sort of splitting hairs [02:28] lol [02:28] since the mini-ISO + Kubuntu-desktop is not identical to the manifest of the Kubuntu ISO [02:28] if someone instals ubuntu and then installs another DE on top of that where should he report bugs ;) [02:29] launchpad, unless the bug is in KDE [02:29] the trick is knowing the difference [02:29] [08:27] is there a way to be sure? [08:28] yes, open a terminal , kde4-config --version [02:29] which resulted in his above response [02:30] $ kde4-config --version [02:30] Qt: 4.8.4 [02:30] KDE Development Platform: 4.12.0 [02:30] kde4-config: 1.0 [02:30] for me [02:30] $ kde4-config --version [02:30] Qt: 4.8.2 [02:31] KDE Development Platform: 4.12.0 [02:31] kde4-config: 1.0 [02:31] interesting that we differ in Qt version [02:31] i got Qt: 4.8.4 [02:32] if you want to run pure KDE almost directly from git, you can use project-neon [02:32] I might also point out that I get lots of crashes of various apps... and load spikes that are significant - up to 30 and over sometimes. [02:33] kde is changing from GTK to QT? i am not even sure if my claim is right and people talk about it on phoronix, what does it mean in practice? [02:33] #project-neon for support [02:33] wah? [02:33] KDE has always used Qt [02:33] it's GNOME that used gtk [02:33] dont remember the thing right then [02:34] but its developemnt related that kde is changing something and people argue about it [02:34] Ubuntu is changing to Qt in some areas [02:34] jarkko: KDE is readying for Wayland [02:34] $ kde4-config --version [02:34] Qt: 4.8.2 [02:34] that isn't controversial; everyone is [02:34] KDE Development Platform: 4.12.0 [02:34] kde4-config: 1.0 [02:34] ugh. sorry [02:35] what is controversial is that Ubuntu is planning instead to do their own; Mir rather than Wayland [02:35] they are alone in that [02:35] but thats not the thing i was thinking [02:35] Qt and gtk are devel toolkits for C++ and C [02:36] that could be [02:36] Mir and Wayland are the way forward from X.org [02:36] two entirely different things [02:36] why people dont see future on xorg? [02:37] why make another display server (or whatever it is) [02:39] it is the x people who are creating wayland [02:39] they've sort of come to the end of the line in what's possible there, i guess [02:40] I think this philisophical discussion is wonderful. However, I'd like to point out that I get lots of crashes of various apps... and load spikes that are significant - up to 30 and over sometimes. <<<<< this is important to me. Even when my load hovers around 1.0 the machine is sluggish, and causes problems with softphone conversations: jitsi, sflphone, zoiper. [02:40] Even my mouse and keyboard get sluggish [02:40] ok, please lets take this back to #kubuntu [02:40] we are entirely off-topic here now [02:41] crashes and poor performance are off-topic? [02:41] ok..... [02:43] yes, in -devel [02:44] I would think that would be of paramount importance to developers [02:44] What could possibly be more important to a developer than software that's not working? [02:44] once the bugs are filed, yes [02:44] but most people here are not KDE application devels [02:45] But are application packagers [02:45] I see [02:45] among other things, yes [03:01] howdy valorie [03:02] good eveing [03:02] evening [03:05] yep a good sunday [03:17] All kubuntu ISO's from this day forth shall be pm-utils free \o/ [03:17] I can already see the users prancing around in their pm-utils free pastures [03:18] what that mean in practise? [03:18] not familiar with the claim [03:18] just kicked out an outdated piece of software ? [03:21] shadeslayer: But what about the /usr/lib/pm-utils/power.d scripts? What replaces the functionality of those? [03:25] looking [03:25] I would guess a systemd thing, but I couldn't find any documentation about it. [03:26] I suppose upstart takes care of everything .... [03:26] Oh, upstart does that now... [03:26] mamarley: upstart exposes logind interfaces now [03:29] and I'm presuming upstart handles all suspending issues internally or whatever [03:29] mamarley: I asked for testing last week and no one replied [03:29] now is the time to break it, else it'll be too late [03:29] if people complain it doesn't work, I'll add it back again [03:30] So just uninstall pm-utils? [03:30] yep [03:30] and upgrade trusty [03:30] when trusty ppa comes available? [03:30] I am already running Trusty. [03:31] can you upgrade 13.10 --> 14.04 via command line? [03:31] oh huh, ubuntu still has pm-utils, I thought they dropped it, maybe I shouldn't have done that [03:31] mamarley: cool [03:31] jarkko: why would you need a trusty PPA right now? [03:31] well thats like asking why do you need linux [03:31] shadeslayer: Yeah, I think it is still used for stuff like putting the WiFi adapters and soundcards and such in powersaving mode. [03:31] i dont need it, but if i wanted to try [03:32] jarkko: okay, what do you need a trusty ppa for? [03:32] just try it out [03:32] try out what? [03:32] i have done that earlier too [03:32] how the new version behaves [03:33] you have to upgrade your system, there is no 'trusty ppa' to try out trusty [03:33] earlier there have been? [03:33] must been [03:34] ubuntu has its own bug reporting on launchpad, which is divided raring, trusty saucy etc...are these bugs somehow or anyway merged with other distros which may have the same bug? debian for example [03:35] sure [03:35] how is it done [03:35] you add a remote bug watch [03:35] "Also affects Distribution/Project" link on the bug [03:35] i havent seen that [03:35] or dont remember [03:36] well that's great [03:36] more eyes to look for the bugs [03:49] how kubuntu decides what direction it takes [03:49] what packages are used [03:49] discussed on kubuntu-devel [03:50] for example mesa, who decides when it gets updated? [03:51] is there a wiki how kubuntu is developed? [03:51] mesa is usually not our decision, that's taken by the X team [03:51] we primarily deal with KDE and kde related deps [03:51] what's X team? [03:51] x.org? [03:53] #ubuntu- [03:53] erm [03:53] #ubuntu-x [03:55] trying to start conversation there now [03:59] * shadeslayer goes off to look into Qt 4.8.5 merge [05:21] Riddell: I don't suppose you're up right now [07:34] mitya57: I plan on uploading qt4-x11 today === Toscalix_office is now known as toscalix [07:35] mitya57: anything that I should do post upload? like recompiling things or sth? [07:35] I've never uploaded qt merges [07:46] shadeslayer: No, rebuilds are not needed [07:46] ack [07:46] shadeslayer: Did you see that Debian pushed a new snapshot yesterday? [07:46] okay, going to upload now then :) [07:46] I did not [07:46] mitya57: lets push this now, and then work on the new snapshot [07:47] Ok [07:47] it's been on my todo for a week now, I want to get it out of the way [07:47] ++ === Blizzzek is now known as Blizzz [09:12] Good morning. [09:43] tomorrow KDE 4.12.1 ? [09:44] soee: building for trusty [09:44] so maybe [09:44] oh nice :) [09:44] http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ninjas-status/build_status_4.12.1_trusty.html [09:48] shadeslayer: you pinged? [09:48] Riddell: yeah, 4.12.1 in ninjas [09:49] groovy [09:49] think I'm still wanting to do KF5 for now unless I'm needed on it especially [09:49] although got a funeral of an elderly family friend today so need to take a few hours away [09:50] okie, the ping was to ask if you could upload since I dont have a good connection [09:50] I uploaded via another server instead [09:55] ec2 is your friend [09:56] *nod* [09:57] "other cloud platforms are available" [09:57] power outage :S [10:14] !testers | 4.11.5 in ninjas needs testing for saucy [10:14] 4.11.5 in ninjas needs testing for saucy: Help is needed in #kubuntu-devel. Please ping Riddell, yofel, soee, Tm_T, shadeslayer, BluesKaj, James147, smartboyhw, Quintasan, lordievader, shrini, tester56, parad1se for information [10:14] if someone still runs that [10:14] i can test tomorrow @ work [10:14] here on laptop im on trusty [10:14] yofel: Not on my testing machine, sorry. [10:20] shadeslayer: Great work, it even built on ppc64el! [10:20] mitya57: :D [10:21] * mitya57 wonders why ppc64el was so fast [10:36] now the amd64 iso is oversized [10:36] for the love of darth vader :@ [10:38] libicu has increased fattyness [10:39] oho [10:39] shadeslayer: are you going to upload meta or something? [10:39] I shall [10:39] updating meta right now [10:40] shadeslayer: you may want to hold that for a bit [10:40] doing some seed shuffling [10:40] oh? [10:40] what sort of seed shuffling [10:41] well, pft http://pastebin.kde.org/pbwcwxzbi [10:41] the let's remove stuff that we don't need kind [10:41] !info plasma-widgets-addons [10:41] plasma-widgets-addons (source: kdeplasma-addons): additional widgets for Plasma. In component universe, is optional. Version 4:4.11.3-0ubuntu0.1 (saucy), package size 1425 kB, installed size 5285 kB [10:42] why that is on the ISO do not know [10:42] ah yes [10:42] shadeslayer: plasma-runner-telepathy-contact [10:42] what's the rationale for having that? [10:42] we had a request on the ML, and it made sense [10:42] launching IM chats via krunner [10:43] also useful in homerun IIRC [10:44] oh homerun, yeah [10:44] shadeslayer: did upstream request that we ship that or something? [10:44] no, user request [10:44] because to me it seems slighly not useful to the target audience [10:44] though upstream asked why we already didn't ship that [10:45] apachelogger: see "Package proposal for trusty" [10:45] going to see bzr log and if it doesn't have refences I will get my rocket launcher [10:46] apachelogger: doesn't have any references [10:47] " add plasma-runner-telepathy-contact" is all the commit message says :) [10:47] mine will say "bye bye" [10:47] to be equally useful [10:48] I still think * (colord-kde) is the most atrocious thing [10:48] gives me WTF whenever I see it [10:48] and when I see colord in ps -A it gives me WTF^2 [10:53] shadeslayer: the ubuntu-driver stuff really needs to get sorted [10:54] well, you haven't written that new way of on-demand-installing-stuff that you were talking about a few releases ago [10:54] I am working based on assumptions here [10:54] I do not like it [10:54] yofel: how does that affect colord? [10:54] there is no reason why a normal person would use colord [10:54] none [10:54] well, and a user that wants color correction is supposed to know about colord? [10:55] well no [10:55] they'd enter color correction in muon and kcm-colord should turn up [10:55] which in turn will bring in colord [10:55] ok, that sounds kinda reasonable.. [10:56] * apachelogger checks [10:56] aint no kcm there [10:56] actually that may be an app-data issue [10:57] kcm desktop files are not in share/applications so they might not get picked up [10:58] !info kde-zeroconf [10:58] kde-zeroconf (source: kdnssd): zeroconf plugins and kio slaves for KDE. In component universe, is extra. Version 4:4.11.2-0ubuntu1 (saucy), package size 24 kB, installed size 138 kB [10:59] Extra fonts (should be common, but not so for space reasons): [10:59] * (ttf-wqy-microhei) [10:59] * (fonts-nanum) [11:00] considering we have space issues, shouldn't we remove one of those? [11:01] Application Install Tool for Whore^WHoary Hedgehog [11:01] and people complain when I swear on IRC [11:03] I think you wanted to drop kde-zeroconf no? [11:03] IIRC you raised that on the ML [11:03] * shadeslayer is +1 on that [11:03] I did? [11:03] I certainly had it in the review [11:04] that's not kde-zeroconf as it turns out [11:04] the kcm I was talking about is smushed into kde-runtime [12:34] * Quintasan tests 4.11.5 [12:35] yofel: it's in Ninjas PPA/ [12:35] ? [12:39] yes [12:43] 4.11.5 has a jerkiness problem with Nvidia GPUs and the binary driver. [12:43] https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=329821 [12:43] KDE bug 329821 in compositing "Extreme jerkiness with kwin compositing on Nvidia binary driver after upgrading to 4.11.5." [Normal,Unconfirmed] [12:48] * Riddell wander back [12:54] yofel: Upgrade went flawlessly [12:54] I'll restart X [12:58] oho [12:58] talking about upgrade [12:58] we need LTS upgrade testerooo [12:58] No problems whatsover after reboot [12:58] apachelogger: as in from precise to trusty? [12:59] yuz [12:59] I think I can install trusty when I'm done with setting up RAID and LVM on my data hdds [13:00] mamarley: no jerkiness problem here [13:05] Quintasan: Are you using an Nvidia card? If so, which driver version? [13:05] hmm [13:05] how did I end up with no binary blob [13:05] mamarley: disregard this, I somehow don't have binary blob installed [13:06] Quintasan: That would be why. The jerkiness only occurs with the blob, and at that, only versions that support GLX_EXT_BUFFER_AGE. [13:27] Hey folks [13:27] Reading symbols from /opt/project-neon5/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/liboxygenstyle.so.5...Reading symbols from /usr/lib/debug/opt/project-neon5/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/liboxygenstyle.so.5.0.0...(no debugging symbols found)...done [13:28] yofel: somehow I managed to break dbg generation [13:28] assumed it worked at some point [13:28] uh, they should be there by default unless you're like building in release mode [13:29] or wait, you're missing the dbg package [13:29] http://paste.ubuntu.com/6744614/ [13:29] yofel: ^ [13:29] log https://launchpadlibrarian.net/162319319/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-amd64.project-neon5-kwindowsystem_0.0%2Bgit20140113.3~22bde8c%2Bneon3~13.10_UPLOADING.txt.gz [13:31] fwiw, it works for qt [13:31] hm, looks fine to me? I think the disabling stuff is only about pkg-create-dbgsym [13:32]