[00:00] <ochosi> hm, actually, i guess not...
[00:00] <ochosi> if i understand this correctly, even multiple monitors are handled as one display
[00:00] <ochosi> (which contains several screens on the next level)
[00:01] <ochosi> but anyway, would be good if more ppl can test this
[00:03] <ochosi> brainwash: do you know by any chance what xscreensaver's timeout is on the lockscreen?
[00:03] <ochosi> i vaguely remember it being very low
[00:03] <ochosi> something like 20secs or so
[00:04] <ochosi> but i haven't used it in so long...
[00:04] <brainwash> yes, really low
[00:04] <brainwash> it also shows an indicators
[00:04] <ochosi> i think i'd set it to something >=30
[00:04] <brainwash> indicator
[00:04] <ochosi> yeah, that countdown seems like overkill
[00:04] <brainwash> 30 should be fine
[00:04] <ochosi> especially as you have to reset it with each time the idle-time gets reset
[00:04] <brainwash> or even 60
[00:04] <ochosi> yeah
[00:04] <ochosi> i was thinking 60
[00:05] <ochosi> but maybe 30 is enough
[00:05] <brainwash> but 10min is just way too long
[00:06] <brainwash> so light-locker needs to 'lock' the session on resume instead of requesting 'switch-to-greeter'
[00:06] <brainwash> or?
[00:07] <brainwash> these are the lightdm commands
[00:07] <brainwash> and only 'lock' sets the lock_hint
[00:10] <brainwash> I'll put that on my todo list and test it
[00:17] <ochosi> so, i do retrieve and save the values correctly
[00:17] <ochosi> but somehow resetting them when the greeter exits doesn't seem to work
[00:17] <ochosi> the new session on VT8 still inherits those blank settings
[00:17] <ochosi> hope i can figure that one out quickly
[00:26] <ochosi> i have to say i'm stumped
[00:26] <ochosi> no idea why resetting the values at the end doesn't work
[00:27] <ochosi> in case any of you feel like looking at whether i made an obvious mistake or something... http://dpaste.com/1548435/
[04:13] <bluesabre> there is finally a good python gi resource, http://lazka.github.io/pgi-docs/index.html
[08:50] <ochosi> Noskcaj: as this might be of interest to you as well, i updated xubuntu_set-accountsservice-user-bg.patch to work with xfdesktop4.11
[08:51] <ochosi> i only have a git diff here now, but if you can update whatever is proposed for trusty, that'd be nice: http://dpaste.com/1548800/
[08:51] <Noskcaj> ok. I should be able to work on it tomorrow, since corsac doesn't seem to have time to upload
[08:52] <ochosi> this patch is ubuntu-specific anyway
[08:52] <ochosi> so it won't go anywhere else
[08:52] <Noskcaj> ok
[08:52] <ochosi> it would be nice if one of you ppl who know packaging a little could update the patch somewhere so it doesn't get lost
[08:52] <ochosi> not sure how to propose changes to something that's not a branch...
[08:53] <elfy> Noskcaj: did you see the comment on lderan's MP re the xubuntu_autopilot_tests directory
[08:53] <Noskcaj> elfy, yeah. I'll add that to my now worryingly large list of stuff for tomorrow
[08:54] <Noskcaj> ochosi, email it to me, i'll put it in use soon
[08:56] <ochosi> Noskcaj: sent
[08:56] <Noskcaj> ty
[08:57] <ochosi> yw
[08:57] <Noskcaj> tomorrow: autopilot, xfce 4.11, fix a heap of FTBFSes i made, make gambc work, do ubuntu gnome stuff, convince parents to let me meet random internet person for keysigning
[08:58] <Noskcaj> And watch whatever tv shows come up on the torrents tonight
[08:59] <ochosi> sounds like a full, but nice day :)
[09:08] <ochosi> brainwash: i thought about the suspending a bit, and no, i don't think it should set the lock_hint. if you wake your laptop up from suspend, you want to obviously *do* something with it, so blanking the screen all the time seems more annoying than helpful
[09:25] <brainwash> ochosi: you got 30/60sec time to unlock it :P
[09:25] <ochosi> that doesn't mean it makes sense
[09:25] <ochosi> in that respect you could say that the greeter should *always* set the timeout to that
[09:25] <brainwash> xscreensaver does it this way
[09:26] <ochosi> yeah, but we also don't take advice on how the lockscreen should look from xscreensaver, we don't wanna copy it  really ;)
[09:27] <brainwash> mmh, leave it blank initially then?
[09:28] <ochosi> nah, that's confusing
[09:28] <ochosi> if you open your laptop-lid after suspending and your display remains blank, that's not very intuitive
[09:29] <brainwash> you move the mouse then, everyone would do that
[09:29] <elfy> I'd immediately press the power button assuming it had not suspended
[09:29] <brainwash> ok, so no changes needed here
[09:29] <cub> I agree, I don't want anything to happen until I press a key or move the mouse
[09:29] <ochosi> elfy: yup, i think you wouldn't be the only one
[09:30] <ochosi> brainwash: anyway, i still have to figure out a way to reset the screensaver values
[09:30] <rowboatnick> I would rather want: no screensaver, no power saving
[09:30] <brainwash> a laptop without any LEDs to indicate the power status? :D
[09:31] <elfy> I've got one of those as soon as I unplug it from the wall ... 
[09:34] <brainwash> the idea is to make this stuff consistent and enjoyable for most users
[09:35] <elfy> I'd guess most would assume that a blank screen meant it'd not suspended 
[09:36] <elfy> most users aren't the half a dozen that might comment in here :)
[09:39] <brainwash> changing the behavior via config would be the best solution
[09:54] <slickymaster> morning all
[09:55] <ochosi> morning
[09:55] <knome> hey slickymaster 
[09:55] <slickymaster> hi ochosi 
[09:55] <slickymaster> hey knome 
[09:57] <slickymaster> ochosi, eric_the_idiot confirmed that everything is right with http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs
[09:57] <ochosi> slickymaster: yup, and a patch for the docs-versioning in docs.xfce is in progress (submitted, about to be reviewed and hopefully applied)
[09:58] <ochosi> so as soon as that is done, we can move stuff over to a xfdesktop/4.12/start page
[09:58] <ochosi> but i'd prefer to wait for these things to settle first
[09:59] <slickymaster> ochosi: there's still the multi monitor part left to be done, that you were supposed to take care of
[09:59] <ochosi> yeah, sorry, been busy with the greeter all weekend
[10:01] <ochosi> but i haven't forgotten about it
[10:02] <slickymaster> ochosi: yeah, we only have a pair of hands ;)
[10:02] <ochosi> yeah, and usually the days only have 24hrs...
[10:04] <Unit193> knome: Looked at the CC website, license isn't translated.
[10:04] <knome> Unit193, yep
[10:05] <ochosi> knome: i think i'll postpone my packageset uploader workitem from -community for >14.04
[10:05] <ochosi> too many other things that need focus this cycle
[10:22] <knome> ochosi, i was thinking you would
[10:27] <Unit193> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda is in progress, is blues?
[10:33] <brainwash> ochosi: I can confirm that the timeout does not get restored to its default value
[11:01] <ochosi> brainwash: yeah, i know, i have to find another sensible place to reset the value (ideally shortly before the greeter exits, but as that doesn't seem to work i'm considering when the user gets changed to something other than the one with the open session in the combobox)
[11:01] <ochosi> generally speaking, setting/resetting the value works, just not in the place/time i wanted it to
[11:13] <knome> slickymaster, see http://xstaging.lallinaho.fi/feature-tour/ for some more styles i built specifically for the tour and similar pages :)
[11:14] <slickymaster> give me  sec
[11:15] <knome> ochosi, fancy the colors? ^
[11:20] <slickymaster> knome: my favorite is the first one 
[11:20] <slickymaster> I think that it integrates better into the layout of the entire site, is not as jarring as the others
[11:21] <slickymaster> even though I find the second one very appealing
[11:21] <knome> slickymaster, well the point of the colors is to highlight stuff ;)
[11:21] <knome> not necessarily use them as i've used them now
[11:21] <knome> (so could have "normal" sections of text in between)
[11:21] <knome> or just use one per page
[11:21] <knome> or two
[11:21] <ochosi> knome: not bad! i think i even like the pink one
[11:22] <knome> yeah, i replaced the orange one with that
[11:22] <knome> that just works so much better with the blues of the site
[11:22] <ochosi> wrt black <code>-bg-bubbles, i'd go for a lighter style
[11:22] <slickymaster> IMO, the colors on the third and forth are too vibrating
[11:22] <ochosi> at least on my laptop monitor, that bubble is not really visible
[11:22] <knome> ochosi, but the text is still clearly standing out, so what's the problem? :)
[11:23] <slickymaster> correction, knome, on the fourth and fifth
[11:23] <slickymaster> and the black one is to heavy
[11:23] <knome> ochosi, ^ your opinion on that?
[11:23] <ochosi> knome: no problem, i just think it might look nicer and more consistent if the bubbles were visible ;)
[11:23] <ochosi> i personally like the vibrant style
[11:23] <ochosi> since they won't be overused as you said, they can kick some butt visually imo
[11:24] <knome> ochosi, lighter bg for code block especially on the black highlight looks poop :(
[11:25] <ochosi> mkay
[11:25] <ochosi> just the diff between code and link isn't as clear anymore
[11:25] <ochosi> another way to say i like the bubbles ;)
[11:25] <knome> right, that's a fair point
[11:26] <slickymaster> hmmm am I being too sober?
[11:26] <ochosi> slickymaster: i think it'll look different if there's only one of these banners on a page
[11:27] <ochosi> right now, it's quite a color-collision (although frankly, i even like that, so i guess knome did a good job on choosing colors :))
[11:28] <slickymaster> ochosi: I see your point, but even being so, isn't pink a bit too clashy?
[11:28] <ochosi> dunno, it works with the bg and other colored elements of the page
[11:28] <ochosi> i can see why we wouldn't want to use orange (ubuntu)
[11:28] <slickymaster> but I do agree with you on the diff between code and link
[11:30] <knome> ochosi, not that reason (at least mainly), the pink just works better with the blue colors than the orange did :)
[11:30] <ochosi> mm
[11:31] <knome> i can give you another example page with only one highlight block
[11:31] <knome> which would you fancy? the pink?
[11:31] <slickymaster> that all color clash reminds me somethings of Kandinsky 
[11:31] <knome> and yes, the point was definitely to make the colors match each other ;)
[11:32] <knome> http://xstaging.lallinaho.fi/about/
[11:33] <knome> (see how those can be used on non-bottom-navigation pages as well!)
[11:33] <knome> (not too encouraged though)
[11:34] <slickymaster> well, I think I'm going to stand corrected
[11:34] <slickymaster> on that page it really works well
[11:34] <knome> yep
[11:34] <knome> i just needed to make sure they work well even if stacked on top of each other
[11:35] <knome> and that's also why we have the "white" highlight (the bottom one in the tour page)
[11:36] <slickymaster> knome: can't you change the pinks order, i.e. the draker pink being the line on top and the lighter pink the body of the blockquote (assuming that it is a blockquote)
[11:36] <ochosi> knome: sweet. looks really awesome
[11:36] <knome> nope, that's the way they work
[11:36] <knome> actually,
[11:36] <knome> in the tour page, the highlighted blocks overlap each other
[11:37] <knome> so the top border color depends on what comes before the block
[11:37] <slickymaster> i see
[11:37] <knome> which i think is a neat little feature
[11:37] <slickymaster> can you show us the http://xstaging.lallinaho.fi/about/ page but with the green choice?
[11:38] <slickymaster> just for comparison
[11:39] <knome> sure, just a check
[11:39] <knome> *sec
[11:39]  * knome facepalms
[11:40] <knome> actually, wait a bit longer
[11:40] <knome> i need to investigate something
[11:41] <slickymaster> ok
[11:41] <knome> related to this :P
[11:43] <elfy> I'm glad you said wait ... that green looks pink :p
[11:44] <lderan> just a bit
[11:45] <knome> done
[11:46] <knome> ochosi, what's the status of pinging xnight on the session bug?
[11:46] <ochosi> well, i tried, senza risposta so far
[11:46] <knome> boo
[11:46] <knome> xnox, ping-a-ling :)
[11:46] <bluesabre> what have I started :D
[11:47] <knome> bluesabre, was?
[11:47] <slickymaster> I think the pink solution works better than the green one, knome
[11:47] <bluesabre> Unit193: not been working on my application, been to busy trying to get code cranked out
[11:47] <knome> slickymaster, well, they are to be used for different things
[11:47] <knome> slickymaster, see how green vibrates so well with "frequent releases" and says "fresh" in the tour page :)
[11:48] <slickymaster> knome: my only issue is with the way it plays it with blue
[11:49] <slickymaster> but I think that it's just me
[11:50] <knome> it could be worse, and the color itself could be uglier ;)
[11:50] <slickymaster> yeah, no argues there :)
[11:55] <lderan> to me it works better as green
[11:56] <knome> that's why we have choice, yay!
[11:56] <knome> :)
[12:51] <slickymaster> I'm off. Lunch time ->
[13:45] <jarnos> brainwash, it is sometimes odd to cope with the light-locker and the greeter: I may open the lock blindly (or kill light-locker in TTY1, but desktop is not shown thereafter, so I have to be careful that I don't  write something in irc blindly.
[13:52] <jarnos> brainwash, I just don't know how much if any is the greeter's fault, as I have had blanking problems with xrandr as well.
[14:13] <ochosi> brainwash: pushed the screensaver-stuff to greeter trunk, should work as expected with that
[14:49] <slickymaster> I'm back <-
[16:08] <knome> jjfrv8, ping me when you're around. i'll be having dinner next, but i'm available after that
[16:51] <brainwash> ochosi: nice, another thing I'm wondering about right now.. the language and session selection should be hidden for logged in users, right?
[16:52] <brainwash> maybe it's already the case, I cannot check it right now
[16:53] <elfy> brainwash: in lock screen? 
[16:53] <brainwash> yes
[16:53] <elfy> all of the login options are there
[16:54] <brainwash> does it make sense to change the language or session? it would affected the next normal login I guess
[16:54] <brainwash> affect
[16:55] <elfy> I don't know without trying and I'm not really able to atm
[16:56] <brainwash> ok, so simply hide these menu entries then
[16:56] <brainwash> it's a lock screen after all
[16:56] <elfy> I guess so 
[16:57] <brainwash> lock + "switch user" screen actually
[17:06] <ochosi> brainwash: they should be displayed as inactive, which they will be as soon as i find time for that
[17:07] <brainwash> ochosi: ok
[17:07] <ochosi> brainwash: also, the xsetscreensaver and xforcescreensaver don't work with nouveau (which really seems to be the arch nemesis of the greeter)
[17:09] <brainwash> this is odd
[17:09] <ochosi> yeah, it's a standard xlib call
[17:09] <ochosi> no idea what could go wrong there
[17:10] <ochosi> (that, and it works with other drivers, obviously)
[17:10] <brainwash> and it does work if called via xset for the current x session
[17:10] <brainwash> or?
[17:10] <ochosi> i dunno, haven't tried that with nouveau yet
[17:10] <ochosi> i haven't been using it for long, it's only for testing the background problem
[17:10] <ochosi> (which i can't reproduce now btw)
[17:11] <ochosi> anyhow, please test the changes i pushed to trunk today (rev180) with intel and amd
[17:11] <brainwash> sure
[17:12] <jjfrv8-work> knome, are you still good for around 20utc? That would work best for me.
[17:13] <knome> jjfrv8-work, yep
[17:13] <ochosi> brainwash: xset settings seem to take effect, so i'm clueless
[17:14] <jjfrv8-work> ok, I'll ping you then.
[17:14] <knome> ok, ttyl then
[17:14]  * knome is off as well
[17:14] <brainwash> ochosi: add some debug prints to the greeter :)
[17:15] <ochosi> for now i'll leave things as they are if it works for everything but nouveau
[17:16] <ochosi> there are bigger fish to fry
[17:16] <brainwash> this would also help with the general testing and could be removed later
[17:16] <brainwash> ok :D
[17:21] <sergio-br2> hi
[17:23] <slickymaster> hey sergio-br2 
[17:24] <sergio-br2> hey slickymaster
[17:30] <sergio-br2> i have an issue with ibus panel plugin. Suddenly, it started to appears at xfce panel (it's annoying), then i search at "Session and Startup", and there is no entry... Is it normal?
[17:37] <sergio-br2> actually, Notification Area plugin. But i don't know how ibus started to appears there
[17:47] <slickymaster> elfy: you around?
[17:48] <slickymaster> never mind elfy. I've sorted it out
[17:54] <slickymaster> I'm off
[17:54] <slickymaster> bbl ->
[19:41] <jjfrv8> knome, I'm as ready as I'll every be
[19:42] <jjfrv8> or ever even
[19:42] <elfy> never odd then? 
[19:42] <jjfrv8> well, I wouldn't say that either
[19:42] <elfy> :)
[19:56] <knome> jjfrv8, i'm here
[19:57] <jjfrv8> me too
[19:57] <knome> let me open the blueprint and other stuff and we can start
[19:59] <knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/IjonEjDCPk
[19:59] <knome> that's the blueprint contents
[19:59] <knome> (others feel free to chime in to the discussion as well)
[20:00] <jjfrv8> ready
[20:01] <knome> so let's start with the whiteboard
[20:01] <knome> are we anywhere with the extended developer docs?
[20:02] <jjfrv8> can we get an easy one out of the way first? Is the 12.04 SRU update going to miss?
[20:02] <knome> have you thought of a list of subjects we want to cover
[20:02] <knome> no, it should have landed
[20:02] <knome> at least it was marked as fix released
[20:02] <jjfrv8> but it was broken, no?
[20:02] <knome> i have no idea
[20:02] <knome> i will update the work items with an item for that
[20:02] <jjfrv8> last I heard skellat was stumped on how to fix it.
[20:03] <knome> ok
[20:03] <knome> i'll be in touch with him
[20:03] <knome> so, what about the developer docs?
[20:03] <jjfrv8> as for the extended developer docs, I was cooling off on that.
[20:04] <jjfrv8> not feeling too good about it for this cycle anymore
[20:04] <knome> i've been working on the community help wiki lately...
[20:04] <jjfrv8> oh
[20:04] <knome> and i'm wondering if it would be more beneficial for us to update articles there
[20:04] <knome> and just create a page that has some useful links gathered
[20:05] <knome> i mean, i don't know what kind of content is available
[20:05] <knome> but there definitely is articles/pages on technical issues
[20:05] <knome> the biggest problem with them is that they are often very specific
[20:05] <jjfrv8> can you point me to them?
[20:06] <jjfrv8> sometime
[20:06] <knome> let me dig you an example
[20:06] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Repository
[20:06] <knome> that's on the team wiki
[20:06] <knome> but i'm sure such pages exist
[20:06] <knome> so the question probably is;
[20:06] <knome> do we want to create very specific guides (which is kind of easier to do),
[20:07] <knome> or do we want to find generic guides,
[20:07] <knome> which are probably a bit more painful to write, but could be more useful for more people
[20:07] <knome> and do not get as quickly outdated
[20:08] <jjfrv8> I guess the latter
[20:09] <knome> let's move on
[20:09] <knome> end-user docs
[20:09] <knome> have you had a chance to look at the ubuntu manual?
[20:10] <jjfrv8> nope
[20:10] <knome> mhm
[20:10] <knome> tbh, i think our end-user docs are fairly good
[20:10] <jjfrv8> I would agree with that
[20:12] <knome> sooo... the what's new, tour, about and installer slideshow stuff
[20:12] <jjfrv8> ja
[20:12] <knome> i added this:
[20:13] <knome> * Discuss how much the feature tour and installer slideshow should have in common
[20:13] <jjfrv8> saw that
[20:13] <knome>    * Different perspectives: Feature tour on the website tries to "sell"  the system, on the installer slideshow the user is already trying out  our product
[20:13] <knome>    * Example: In tour, tell Xubuntu is customizable; in installer  slideshow, give the user examples how they can customize the system  (follow up with knome and ochosi for creating documentation how to  change the color scheme for the system easily; requires an adaptive  wallpaper)
[20:13] <knome> could we get work on these started shortly?
[20:13] <lderan> that sounds good
[20:13] <knome> don't know if you already saw http://xstaging.lallinaho.fi/feature-tour/
[20:13] <knome> (that's the staging site for the new theme to land soonish)
[20:14] <jjfrv8> yeah, I saw that earlier today
[20:14] <knome> we could try to prepare some of the content to make use of those new elements
[20:14] <knome> and see how it all works on the website
[20:14] <jjfrv8> who all knows how to do that?
[20:14] <knome> i can even create accounts for the staging site as needed, if you want to test some of the things live
[20:15] <knome> atm, basically me
[20:15] <knome> but it's really straightforward (wysiwyg), and anybody who's ever worked with wordpress should get their head around it quickly
[20:15] <knome> or even with just basic word editing
[20:16] <knome> (select text, select a style from a dropdown list, save page, done)
[20:16] <jjfrv8> well, I'd be willing to try but I'm not the creative type. I can write boring technical stuff but not marketing type stuff
[20:16] <knome> ok, let's do a call for people on the mailing list then
[20:16] <jjfrv8> ok
[20:17] <knome> i guess the "about" page should be more of the "boring" type
[20:17] <jjfrv8> :)
[20:17] <knome> explaining ideals behind xubuntu and technical things like what's it built on
[20:18] <knome> and probably something brief about what is linux and that kind of stuff for absolute beginners
[20:18] <knome> do we agree on how tour/installer slideshow should be different?
[20:19] <knome> or do you have further ideas?
[20:19] <jjfrv8> no, I think you had that right
[20:20] <knome> so, what's your take on the what's new page after a few slept nights?
[20:21] <jjfrv8> I don't know if we ever reached a consensus on what it should cover
[20:22] <jjfrv8> slickymaster voted for it only covering changes since Precise
[20:22] <knome> yeah, i'm not sure how useful S->T changes would be
[20:22] <knome> or, in other words, the release notes should cover that already
[20:23] <knome> and we don't need to advertise that upgrade too much, since those who are using regular releases will most probably upgrade ayway
[20:23] <jjfrv8> yeah
[20:24] <knome> considering we have the feature tour and installer slideshow covering the generic "what xubuntu is", i think we need to focus on actual changes
[20:24] <knome> what those are... well, we probably want to talk about new apps
[20:24] <knome> theming hasn't changed *too* much, most of that is just really boring technical talk "we support gtk3.10 now"
[20:24] <jjfrv8> I think so - for the new apps
[20:25] <knome> but when i think what we have...
[20:25] <knome> menulibre, mugshot, gtk-theme-config
[20:25] <knome> light-locker
[20:25] <knome> those are all something i'd also want to feature on the installer slideshow
[20:25] <jjfrv8> yup
[20:25] <knome> so maybe we should focus on getting the new features advertised there
[20:26] <knome> and put the rest of the effort into the release notes
[20:26] <knome> rather than creating a yet new page for the website
[20:26] <knome> (we can always use the tour page for such things as well)
[20:27] <knome> bluesabre?
[20:28] <knome> jjfrv8, are you comfortable working with docbook on the drafts, or would you rather do it with a different tool?
[20:28] <knome> that is, drafts for extensions to the end-user docs
[20:28] <jjfrv8> i'm okay with docbook
[20:33] <knome> mhm, the whiteboard looks better now imo
[20:33] <knome> let's see what the bugs are about
[20:34] <knome> bug 1213933
[20:34] <knome> afaik, we have no way to tell if the user is installing directly, or via the live environment
[20:34] <knome> maybe we should change the wording to "If you are running this installation via the 'Try Xubuntu' -mode..."
[20:34] <knome> better ideas?
[20:35] <knome> lderan, how familiar did you get with the ubiquity installer environment?
[20:35] <jjfrv8> no, cause I have no idea about how to discern the environment
[20:35] <lderan> knome, from what i remember we can tell what distro and version the user is on
[20:36] <knome> yep, but not if they are installing directly or not
[20:36] <knome> right,
[20:36] <knome> so we need to take action on the woring
[20:36] <knome> *wording
[20:36] <knome> i can't type today
[20:36] <lderan> knome, i can take a look at to see if it can be found out someway
[20:37] <knome> okay, but don't use too much time on it
[20:37] <knome> i mean, we are probably just fine with just the rewording
[20:38] <knome> added a comment in the bug
[20:40] <knome> ok, i'm pretty fine with the blueprint
[20:40] <knome> jjfrv8, anything you want to discuss?
[20:41]  * knome goes copying the pad to the blueprint, so no touching now!
[20:41] <jjfrv8> can you give me a quick idea of items I should be working on in the immediate future?
[20:41] <knome> i tried to put *some* structure in the work items
[20:41] <Noskcaj> Is anyone working on the SRU for bug 1244629 ?
[20:42] <knome> where the items on the top are planning, and bottom are actually finishing
[20:42] <knome> Noskcaj, not that i know of
[20:42] <Noskcaj> knome, What was the other SRU we had to 
[20:42] <Noskcaj> do?
[20:42] <knome> Noskcaj, docs is done, but broken apparently
[20:43] <knome> Noskcaj, there might've been others as well
[20:43] <knome> jjfrv8, i guess next up is get the new tour/about pages started
[20:43] <jjfrv8> and you're going to do the call to the ML, right?
[20:44] <knome> jjfrv8, and sections on the docs; mugshot/menulibre/xfdesktop/gtk3 indicators, but they are partly blocked by everything not being in place yet
[20:44] <knome> yes, i can run the call
[20:44] <knome> i could also organize some social media visibility for that as well
[20:45] <elfy> if you don't want calls to -dev merging together - just letting you know I'll be doing one later in the week
[20:45] <knome> elfy, good, i'm planning to run the call today :P
[20:45] <elfy> cool :)
[20:46] <jjfrv8> when you say "sections on the docs", you just mean in the what's new sections, right?
[20:46] <jjfrv8> The actual documentation for those is just upstream, no?
[20:46] <knome> that's a good question
[20:47] <knome> at least gtk3 indicators and xfdesktop need to be covered to some extent in xubuntu dos
[20:47] <knome> and i would say it would be good to have mugshot in as well
[20:47] <knome> menulibre, well, upstream docs dor that would be okay for me
[20:48] <knome> but the mugshot documentation can be pretty similar to the upstream docs
[20:48] <knome> it's a simple app, so writing the documentation doesn't take too long anyway
[20:49] <jjfrv8> I was just thinking the the current documentation doesn't go into too much detail on any apps
[20:49] <knome> starting the work on mugshot/menulibre docs upstream is fine though, we can then pull them downstream and adapt/cut as/if needed
[20:49] <knome> that's true
[20:49] <jjfrv8> but we can change that
[20:49] <knome> so that's why i don't think we specifically need menulibre documentation
[20:49] <knome> i would like to make mugshot an integral part of the system
[20:50] <knome> we cover changing themes already
[20:51] <knome> gtk3 indicators we probably want to cover quickly, basically to list what's available (or at least cover the indicators shown by default)
[20:51] <knome> oh btw, we might need to adapt the docs to new panel layout
[20:51] <knome> which is still WIP
[20:52] <jjfrv8> you mean the possibility of whiskermenu?
[20:52] <knome> that, and generally the panel layout
[20:52] <knome> we might reorder some things, and we will probably drop the pop-up panel from the bottom
[20:52] <knome> so the text needs to be adapted for that
[20:53] <jjfrv8> ah
[20:53] <knome> it's a relatively trivial task, but something we need to remember to do :)
[20:53] <jjfrv8> right
[20:53] <knome> i added it to the work items as BLOCKED
[20:53] <knome> (since there is no decision on the new panel layout yet)
[20:54] <knome> i will try to remember to follow up with you once we have it ready
[20:59] <jjfrv8> thanks for the help, knome 
[21:00] <knome> no problem
[21:00] <knome> if you need any help any time, just ping me
[21:00] <jjfrv8> will do
[21:04] <jjfrv8> bbl
[21:24] <knome> jjfrv8, sent the call to the list
[22:11] <jarnos> brainwash, well I praised xfce4-terminal's command line options, but they seem to be buggy, as for -e and -x, in Xubuntu 13.10 :(
[22:14] <brainwash> jarnos: buggy? time for another bug report :)
[22:17] <jarnos> brainwash, maybe later, meanwhile, I use lxterm for those purposes.
[22:18] <jarnos> brainwash, it does not have -x, though, but -e works well.
[22:18] <brainwash> but what exactly does not work? maybe it's not a bug in xfce4-terminal after all
[22:19] <elfy> hi slickymaster - just about to wander off - I've just added you to a MP for review, but no rush for it 
[22:20] <slickymaster> ok, elfy I've almost finished the other five. Tomorrow I'l write my comments on your MP
[22:20] <elfy> thanks :)
[22:20] <slickymaster> np
[22:24] <elfy> night all
[22:26] <jarnos> brainwash, try xfce4-terminal -e "ls | less", then same with lxterm.
[22:29] <jarnos> brainwash, I couldn't figure out, if -x could be used, instead.
[22:31] <brainwash> so what is the problem?
[22:32] <brainwash> "ls | less" is not a valid command, you need to run it inside shell
[22:35] <jarnos> brainwash, oh, it is handy anyway that lxterm can handle it.
[22:35] <brainwash> check the man page then
[22:36] <brainwash> "Execute command inside the terminal", it does not spawn a shell
[22:37] <brainwash> so apparently lxterm does things differently
[22:37] <jarnos> brainwash, I don't complain. But -x is supposed to "Execute the remainder of the command line inside the terminal". Still piping does not work.
[22:38] <jarnos> brainwash, anyway, good night
[22:39] <brainwash> :/
[22:50] <ali1234> xfce4-terminal -e "sh -c \"ls | less\""
[22:51] <ali1234> personally i think this way is the correct way
[22:52] <ali1234> sometimes you don't want a shell
[22:53] <ali1234> i don't understand what -x is supposed to do
[22:53] <brainwash> basically the same like -e, but no quoting needed
[22:54] <brainwash> it simply executes the reminder, the part after -x
[22:54] <brainwash> remainder, woops
[22:55] <brainwash> I'm not sure why jarnos assumes that piping should work in this case
[22:55] <brainwash> no shell -> no piping
[22:56] <ali1234> i can't seem to make it work with -x even if i tell it to run a shell
[22:56] <brainwash> xfce4-terminal -x sh -c "ls | less"
[22:57] <ali1234> hmm
[22:58] <brainwash> speaking of xfce4-terminal -> bug 1243354
[23:00] <ali1234> try with --disable-server
[23:03] <brainwash> disabling the server functionality is just a workaround
[23:09] <brainwash> ali1234: got time to work on a proper fix? I forgot to tell the reporter to redirect this bug upstream
[23:10] <ali1234> don't know without digging into the source
[23:12] <brainwash> ok, I'll file an upstream report if needed
[23:48] <ochosi> brainwash: any test-results for me?