=== scottb is now known as zz_scottb
[01:39] <mamarley> Anyone else getting a KP when attempting to install libc 2.18-0ubuntu5?
[02:22] <mamarley> I just had something really weird happen.  When I tried to update libc6, the system kernel-panicked when setting it up.
[02:22] <mamarley> Rebooting and trying again led to the same KP.  I ended up recovering my using my grml recovery image, chrooting in, and (successfully) installing the update.
[02:57] <pgnome> ughhh.. I meant to ask TJ smth else but had to leave
[02:57] <pgnome> anyone else use an external drive?   I think I encountered a bug when I want to rename a folder
=== mercutio is now known as Guest41791
=== Ronald_ is now known as Ronald
=== Guest41791 is now known as mercutio
=== zz_scottb is now known as scottb
[12:36] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[12:42] <ikonia> hello BluesKaj
[12:43] <ikonia> how are you finding your 14.04 testing at the moment
[12:47] <BluesKaj> ikonia, quite stable , running on a laptop and the desktop, only a minor problem with nvidia driver , which was solved after using nouveau for a few dsya.
[12:47] <ikonia> not bad
[12:47] <BluesKaj> err days
[12:48] <ThomasB> i wish I could say mine was stable
[12:48] <BluesKaj> working quite well here , but I'm a KDE user as you probly already know , so i can't vouch for unity etc
[12:48] <ThomasB> although i've been doing a lot of power user stuff with it
[12:49] <ikonia> such as ?
[12:49] <ThomasB> changing compiz settings
[12:49] <ikonia> what power user stuff have you been doing ?
[12:49] <ikonia> changing settings = power use ?
[12:49] <ThomasB> apparently
[12:49] <ThomasB> in the eyes of Ubuntu it is
[12:49] <ikonia> I don't believe so
[12:49] <streulma> hello, is it normal that the tamtam sound of ubuntu 14.04 is lower then earlier versions?
[12:49] <ThomasB> *Canonical
[12:50] <ThomasB> I had this weird issue earlier where I tried to set up Banshee to last.fm and it crashed compiz for some reason <_<
[12:51] <BluesKaj> ikonia, are going to try 14.04?
[12:52] <ikonia> probably not at this time
[12:52] <ikonia> I've followed/looked at individual packages
[12:52] <ikonia> but in terms of the distro, I'm not really intereted
[12:52] <BluesKaj> yeah I have 13.10 installs on both machines
[12:53] <ikonia> few packages/bug fixes where of interest to me, but the distro as a whole isn't really of much interest to me
[12:54] <streulma> I did not notice impacting changes
[12:54] <streulma> just the new Ubuntu browser :)
[12:55] <streulma> I tested Ubuntu 14.04 for now, because I want to switch from OSX to Ubuntu
=== mamarley_ is now known as mamarley
[13:06] <mamarley> I am experiencing rather severe problems with Trusty.  When I attempt to upgrade to eglibc 2.18-0ubuntu5, my system kernel-panics right away.  It says that init segfaulted.
[13:07] <mamarley> Is anyone else getting this?
[13:10] <ThomasB> I don't even have eligbc in my repositories
[13:10] <ThomasB> much less installed
[13:10] <mamarley> ThomasB: The binary packages are called libc6.
[13:11] <ThomasB> i'm upgrading it
[13:11] <ThomasB> so if i get a kernel panic
[13:11] <ThomasB> i'm blaming you
[13:12] <ThomasB> -_-
[13:12] <ThomasB> i'm still here
[13:12] <ThomasB> it worked
[13:12] <mamarley> Interesting.
[13:13] <ThomasB> Installed Version   2.18-0ubuntu5
[13:13]  * mamarley heads off to do more testing.
[13:20] <mamarley> For me, attempting to reinstall libc6 or upstart causes a kernel panic every time.
[13:24] <BluesKaj> mamarley, well, muon states: Contains the standard libraries that are used by nearly all programs on the system. A kernel panic in that case sort of makes sense
[13:36] <mamarley> BluesKaj: But aren't you supposed to be able to update these packages without crashing the system?  I know I have in the past.
[13:39] <BluesKaj> mamarley, individiually or just a general apt-get update / upgrade and dist-upgrade ?
[13:42] <BluesKaj> speaking of which , I just got another kernel upgrade 3.13.0-3.18 , gotta reboot ..brb
[13:45] <mamarley> BluesKaj: The problem started yesterday when I upgraded the libc packages.  It kernel panicked.  I have then tried reinstalling both libc6 and upstart (I figured maybe upstart somehow got corrupted and that caused the crash).  Attempting to reinstall either of them KPs the system immediately.  I then have to chroot in from a live disk and do a "sudo dpkg --configure -a"  (which completes successfully and without KP)
[13:45] <mamarley> Oops, he's gone.
[13:47] <mamarley> BluesKaj: The problem started yesterday when I upgraded the libc packages. It kernel panicked. I have then tried reinstalling both libc6 and upstart (I figured maybe upstart somehow got corrupted and that caused the crash). Attempting to reinstall either of them KPs the system immediately. I then have to chroot in from a live disk and do a "sudo dpkg --configure -a" (which completes successfully and without KP)
[13:49] <BluesKaj> mamarley, so you can't get to a shell when booting normally?
[13:50] <mamarley> BluesKaj: I can get to a shell, but attempting to run "sudo dpkg --configure -a" causes the KP again unless I do it from a live disk.
[13:51] <BluesKaj> ok , so the installed OS can't be in service/mounted
[13:51] <BluesKaj> good to know in case <i have that problem
[14:23] <mamarley> Here is the message I get for the kernel panic: https://michaelmarley.com/kp.jpg
[14:31] <mamarley> I seriously have no idea what to do about this.  No-one else can seem to reproduce it, but I get it on both of my systems.
[14:34] <mamarley> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/1120660 seems to be the same problem I am having.
[14:34] <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1120660 in upstart (Ubuntu) "Kernel Panic when running 'sudo dpkg --configure -a' ?" [High,Fix released]
[14:39] <mamarley> Yes, and someone else has just posted on that report that they have the same problem as me.
[14:41] <mamarley> Here's the new bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/1269405
[14:41] <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1269405 in upstart (Ubuntu) "Kernel Panic running 'sudo dpkg --configure -a'" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[14:47] <TJ-> mamarley: I'm unable to view the photo you're linked to
[14:48] <mamarley> TJ-: What error do you receive?
[14:48] <TJ-> mamarley: cannot reach server
[14:48] <mamarley> Dangit, did my IP change again?  Let me check...
[14:49] <ironhalik> are there any known issues with UEFI installs?
[14:49] <ironhalik> for trusty?
[14:50] <mamarley> TJ-: Something is up with my configuration...
[14:51] <TJ-> mamarley: OK ... "openssl s_client -connect michaelmarley.com:443" returns "No route to host"
[14:51] <TJ-> ironhalik: Be more specific please :)
[14:51] <mamarley> TJ-: What about "dig michaelmarley.com" and "dig AAAA michaelmarley.com" if you have IPv6?
[14:52] <TJ-> mamarley: "dig +short michaelmarley.com"   = 98.26.147.172
[14:53] <ironhalik> TJ-: hard to be. I install 14.04, use whole drive. Reboot, drive is not bootable
[14:54] <TJ-> ironhalik: If it is UEFI... does the PC's UEFI firmware show a new boot menu entry for GRUB/Ubuntu?
[14:54] <ironhalik> TJ-: nope. I had ubuntu entry on 13.10
[14:55] <TJ-> ironhalik: Have you gone into the UEFI shell and checked the contents of FS0:\EFI\ ?
[14:55] <ironhalik> uhm, nope
[14:55] <ironhalik> I'm reinstalling - Ill check efibootmgr before rebootingh
[14:56] <TJ-> ironhalik: OK ... did it get to the GRUB boot menu?
[14:56] <ironhalik> TJ-: nope, id didnt find anything bootable
[14:56] <TJ-> ironhalik: I'm wondering if it incorrectly installed as MBR rather than EFI ... did you upgrade or use an ISO image to install from?
[14:57] <ironhalik> TJ-: I'm installing from latest daily iso
[14:57] <TJ-> ironhalik: If the UEFI has CSM disabled, and it installs MBR then the symptom you describe would be expected
[14:58] <BluesKaj> ironhalik, I put UEFI in legacy mode to install , then have to use legacy mode to boot as well
[14:58] <ironhalik> hmm, I've set EFI only, to kinda force ubuntu to install in EFI mode
[14:58] <ironhalik> yeah, Ill check it after install
[14:59] <BluesKaj> on this laptop installing with EFI gave me the same symptoms you have, ironhalik
[15:00] <ironhalik> BluesKaj: hmm, mine is thinkpad x220
[15:00] <ironhalik> just in case :>
[15:00] <BluesKaj> Lenovo G500 here
[15:00] <TJ-> ironhalik: You need to install in UEFI mode else GRUB can't/won't add the UEFI boot entry
[15:00] <ironhalik> TJ-: yeah, Im doing just that
[15:01] <ironhalik> it didnt add ubuntu entry in the firmware
[15:01] <BluesKaj> TJ-, legacy mode worked fro grub install here
[15:01] <BluesKaj> for
[15:01] <ironhalik> hmm, it install grub2 now, and I didnt notice it before
=== TheLordOfTime is now known as teward
[15:01] <ironhalik> installs*
[15:02] <ironhalik> I'm wondering if the autopartition script might have failed before
[15:04] <TJ-> BluesKaj: Ahh of course, I'm thinking of non-UEFI :)
[15:04] <BluesKaj> recommend partition the drive first with gparted, then install using manual partitioning in ubiquity for your mountpoints
[15:04] <TJ-> As long as there is a /sys/firmware/efi/ node it'll work
[15:05] <mamarley> TJ-: OK, it is back up now.  My silly router assigned my server the wrong IP address, so the port forwarding was not working correctly.
[15:05] <TJ-> mamarley: :)
[15:06] <ironhalik> ffs, uefi confuses me
[15:06] <TJ-> ironhalik: why?
[15:06] <ironhalik> switched to both UEFI/legacy, now I lost the 'setup' entry in boot menu :P
[15:07] <ironhalik> efibootmgr says I have ubuntu entry, its not there in bios boot settings
[15:07] <BluesKaj> ironhalik, legacy first as well
[15:07] <ironhalik> yeah, it's there
[15:08] <BluesKaj> efi is bios ironhalik , it's abios replacement , thanks to our friends from MS
[15:08] <ironhalik> btw, are there any real gains from using efi?
[15:09] <TJ-> BluesKaj: Intel... not MS ... Intel designed and developed UEFI in the late 1990s
[15:09] <ironhalik> wintel :P
[15:09] <BluesKaj> none that are apparent to me , altho there are claims
[15:09] <TJ-> ironhalik: Lots!
[15:09] <TJ-> ironhalik: For one... no more having OS boot-loaders remove each other
[15:10] <BluesKaj> ok TJ- I stand corrected , but designed for windows no doubt
[15:10] <ironhalik> only windows removed bootloaders :P
[15:10] <TJ-> ironhalik: 2nd... a decent interface for the boot-loader and OS to interact with the motherboard and firmware, and discovery of resources
[15:10] <ironhalik> not to rant, but Im installing 14.04 b/c I needed to install windows before that, for some lenovo tool
[15:11] <TJ-> GRUB will replace the MBR boot sector
[15:11] <ironhalik> and installing windows 8.1 was the most stupid expirience I've had - due to USB3, boot order, messed up install logs, etc
[15:12] <ironhalik> hmm, now I booted the installed in BIOS mode and unity didnt load :P
[15:12] <ironhalik> got two icons and no decorations
[15:13] <BluesKaj> grub always installed to the mbr in my experience with normal bios
[15:13] <ironhalik> BluesKaj: well, yeah, but it usually detects all systems at least
[15:15] <BluesKaj> yeah true ironhalik , but after I wiped theis drive of 8.1 and setup the partitions for linux, I had no problems installing in legacy mode
[15:18] <TJ-> I've been hacking on UEFI recently and after the initial learning curve I've been really impressed; it really helps when things go wrong at boot-time
[15:19] <BluesKaj> grub is exactly where it's supposed to be, also have W7 setup here in a dual boot setup
[15:19] <TJ-> You can enter the shell, list contents of the file-systems, check the ESP is correct, manually execute any of the installed boot loaders, etc.
[15:20] <BluesKaj> tried installing in efi mode but could get get to grub on boot
[15:20] <BluesKaj> not get to grub rather
[15:21] <ironhalik> during manual partitioning, all I need to do is create a fat32 partition with /boot/efi mountpoint?
[15:22] <TJ-> BluesKaj:  It won't install in UEFI mode if there's an existing MBR or other partitions. If the drive is empty it will do GPT+an ESP partition (EFI system partition - FAT32). Otherwise, it needs space to create that partition if it isn't there already
[15:23] <ironhalik> I just cleared the drive and recreated the GPT partition table
[15:23] <TJ-> ironhalik: Yes, best to be the first GPT partition... doesn't need to be massive (100MB is more than enough)
[15:23] <ironhalik> btw, do I need to free space before first partition in GPT? It annoys me
[15:23] <TJ-> ironhalik: Some badly implemented UEFI firmwares will have problems with some FAT versions ... e.g. FAT12, FAT16, FAT32, although they are supposed to support all variations
[15:24] <BluesKaj> why fat, whynot ntfs?
[15:24] <ironhalik> well, it did work before, with fat32
[15:24] <TJ-> ironhalik: No ... but the first partition often gets put at sector 2048 or similar - a legacy practice from when spinning hard disks were addressed by real cylinder/track/head rather than LBA
[15:25] <TJ-> BluesKaj: FAT is mandated by the UEFI standard... it is easy to write a FAT driver
[15:25] <ironhalik> TJ-: it does the free space either way, and im on a SSD :P
[15:25] <TJ-> FAT is a very simple layout... I've written programs in the past to read/fix/recreate broken FAT in an afternoon... NTFS... it'd be a few weeks!
[15:27] <TJ-> ironhalik: Yes I know... its done to ensure wide compatibility across systems
[15:29] <ironhalik> how does installing grub on a partition works?
[15:29] <ironhalik> on sda1 instead of sda
[15:30] <TJ-> ironhalik: To understand the layout, read "man gdisk" and option "l" under "expert's menu" section, in particular it says "...On new disks, GPT fdisk attempts to align partitions on 2048-sector (1MiB) boundaries by default, which optimizes performance for all of  these disk types...."
[15:31] <ironhalik> uhm, I guess it has to be done that way :)
[15:32] <ironhalik> with efi, I could have the bootloader wherever I want, right?
[15:32] <ironhalik> in theory, at least
[15:32] <TJ-> mamarley: Your crash ... were you upgrading inside a chroot or similar, or was it the primary host OS?
[15:33] <mamarley> TJ-: It was the primary host OS.
[15:33] <TJ-> ironhalik: No... with UEFI the boot-loader is in the ESP partition ... that then chains /boot/grub/.... from the OS install
[15:34] <TJ-> mamarley: OK so we're not dealing with a second init somehow being signalled
[15:34] <mamarley> TJ-: Nope, I actually have my chroots hacked so that the init in them can never start.
[15:34] <mamarley> But one system on which I have reproduced this bug has no chroots at all.
[15:35] <TJ-> mamarley: Had any of the chroot's been used between the system booting and the dpkg --configure -a ?
[15:35] <TJ-> mamarley: OK, that is good to know
[15:38] <mamarley> TJ-: The bug report is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/1269405 if you are interested.
[15:38] <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1269405 in upstart (Ubuntu) "Kernel Panic running 'sudo dpkg --configure -a'" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[15:38] <TJ-> mamarley: pulling in the trusty upstart source-code now
[15:38] <TJ-> mamarley: Yes, I've been focusing on that report
[15:38] <mamarley> OK, sorry.
[15:38] <mamarley> Thanks!
[15:43] <TJ-> mamarley: What installed version do you get from "apt-cache policy upstart"
[15:44] <mamarley> TJ-: Installed: 1.11-0ubuntu1
[15:49] <mamarley> TJ-: If it makes any difference, I have /var/log, /var/spool, and /tmp on tmpfs.
[15:50] <TJ-> mamarley: that's messed it up then; The Ubuntu dev's haven't updated the source-code repo containing the code so what I've pulled here doesn't even have that version in it, although it has a couple of versions (unreleased) later than that version!
[15:51] <mamarley> I know a previous bug has caused problems when /var/log is on tmpfs, but starting the kernel with --no-log fixed that.
[15:53] <TJ-> mamarley: OK, pulling in another repo (ubuntu/upstart rather than ubuntu/trusty/upstart)
[15:54] <ironhalik> TJ-: BluesKaj: It booted, after full wipe and manual partitioning. I think the installer by default created fat32 /boot/efi partition while it should create just 'efi partition' (dunno whats the difference
[15:57] <TJ-> ironhalik: That doesn't make sense :)   The GPT partition is just a marker saying from sector X to sector Y belongs to partition Z. Then a file-sytem is 'formatted' in the partition (FAT32). Ubuntu mounts that file-system at "/boot/efi/" so it can read/write the boot loader files if required by grub-update etc.
[15:58] <ironhalik> well, I assumed the 'efi partition' is the same as fat32 /boot/efi partition
[15:58] <ironhalik> but hell, something worked :>
[15:59] <BluesKaj> TJ-, so once a GTP disk always a GTP disk , no more MBR ?
[16:01] <TJ-> BluesKaj: That's the idea ... you can install GRUB in MBR mode too... for that you create an additional small GPT partition for GRUBs files, and GRUB buts it boot-loader in sector 0 (the protective MBR) which then chains the contents of the GRUB boot partition
[16:02] <BluesKaj> if this is so, no wonder W7 installed on the 2nd partition without balking
[16:02] <ironhalik> hmm, and how does the 'grubless' boot work? straight from efi to ubuntu
[16:03] <TJ-> ironhalik: It is possible to have linux kernel start directly from UEFI, but most distros install GRUB in UEFI mode... GRUB will auto-detect which mode based on testing /sys/firmware/efi/ and a GPT
[16:05] <BluesKaj> my first partition is ext4 /, the 2nd is ntfs for w7, and the 3rd is ext4 /home
[16:05] <BluesKaj> strange order, but it works
[16:09] <TJ-> mamarley: I'm afraid I've struck out on finding any accurate source-code repo of the upstart code... the whole thing seems totally broken
[16:19] <TJ-> BluesKaj: partition order doesn't really matter apart from on very large disk and BIOS based boot where the BIOS/boot-loader has a limit on the maximum sector offset into the disk that it can reach
[16:20] <TJ-> mamarley: Turns out there's a fault in the upstart packaging branches; reported it... will look at the changes now I've sorted that, see if any might explain the issue
[16:29] <TJ-> mamarley: Can you tell me what "initctl version" reports?
[16:29] <mamarley> With my kind of luck, it will probably report "Kernel Panic", but let me check...
[16:30] <mamarley> TJ-: init (upstart 1.11)
[16:32] <TJ-> mamarley: OK ... my gut feeling right now is that new code added to the debian/upstart.postinst script is being triggered when you reconfigure all packages... part of that shell script code checks the running version of init, and compares it to 1.9 ... my feeling is that the shell doesn't 'know' about decimal numbers, only integers, so it'll interpret 1.9 differently. I'm doing some tests here
[16:33] <mamarley> TJ-: It also crashes when I upgrade/reinstall libc6, or whenever I run "sudo telinit u"
[16:35] <TJ-> mamarley: ouch! OK, I'd best look at deeper changes then
[16:36] <TJ-> mamarley: I wonder it it is a bug in libc6 ?
[16:37] <mamarley> Possibly.  The first time I got the KP was when upgrading to libc6 2.18-0ubuntu5.
[16:37] <TJ-> mamarley: that makes sense!
[16:38] <TJ-> mamarley: OK, and that was 14th jan... so I'll pull in libc
[16:38] <mamarley> Let me run it back to the previous version and see if that makes any differences.
[16:41] <TJ-> mamarley: let me see what the differences are between versions
[16:42] <mamarley> There didn't seem to be that much of a change between 2.18-0ubuntu4 and 2.18-0ubuntu5, so is it possible that the but was introduced in 2.18-0ubuntu4 but I just never hit the bug until I tried to install 2.18-0ubuntu5?
[16:55] <s9iper1> hello, i am not be able to install audio and video plugins after fresh install of ubuntu 14.04 alpha fully updated. i used this command as well on this page anybody knows something ?
[16:55] <s9iper1> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/simple-guide-to-sound-solutions-for-hardyintrepid-and-jaunty-jackalope-users.html
[17:00] <FourFire> Hello
[17:01] <FourFire> so I'm trying the new version out, no issues I need help with directly, it's different though
[17:01] <FourFire> of course it must be more different for me since I'm jumping right from 12.04
[17:03] <TJ-> FourFire: welcome :) How's your data recovery gone?
[17:04] <FourFire> well it's recovered, and I am now motivated to learn more about commands in order to ease the drudge work of sifting through countless files
[17:05] <TJ-> FourFire: How about learning about back-ups too? :p
[17:05] <mamarley> TJ-: Is downgrading eglibc worth a shot?
[17:07] <FourFire> TJ_ it's backed up on three seperate devices now
[17:07] <FourFire> one day soon I'm going to have a raid 5 remote server
[17:07] <FourFire> for that sort of thing
[17:08] <TJ-> mamarley: Looking at the changes introduced in 2.18-0ubuntu3 (a merge from Debian experimental) I'd guess the problem is there... it introduces a lot of invasive patches, it'll need a glibc expert to zero in on it I think
[17:09] <mamarley> OK, I will revert back to 2.18-0ubuntu2 and test again.
[17:11] <TJ-> FourFire: Well, I rsync to a 64GB USB2/3 indestructible which is fireproof and outside the building whilst connected via USB extender ... that way I can abandon the study and still have latest data and it will boot on almost any other system
[17:14] <FourFire> TJ-: cool chickens
[17:16] <TJ-> mamarley: Someone else has reported the same bug against eglibc; I've duped it to your bug and retitled it
[17:19] <mamarley> TJ-: Reverting to 2.18-0ubuntu2 does not work around the issue.
[17:21] <TJ-> mamarley: do you have any earlier packages in your local archive you could try?
[17:22] <mamarley> TJ-: I can grab old versions off of Launchpad.  But if anything older than  2.18-0ubuntu3 had introduced the issue, I would have seen it before the  2.18-0ubuntu5 upgrade.
[17:24] <TJ-> Hmmm... interesting... this leads towards the kernel
[17:25] <TJ-> mamarley: Can you look at /var/log/history.log and extract (to the bug report) the entries since the weekend? Might help us narrow it down
[17:25] <TJ-> mamarley: oops "/var/log/apt/history.log"
[17:29] <TJ-> mamarley: which kernel version is in use? Can you try with an earlier kernel?
[17:32] <mamarley> I have tried it with 3.13.0-3-generic and my own custom 3.13.0-rc8 kernel.
[17:33] <mamarley> I can try a 3.12 kernel after lunch.
[17:39] <TJ-> mamarley: thanks. Other devs have pointed the finger back at upstart... so if we can find a kernel upgrade is relevant that would be very useful. Shame I can't reproduce it here
[17:41] <mamarley> Have you tried putting /var/log (and possibly /tmp and /var/spool) on a tmpfs?
[17:41] <mamarley> I have those mounted on tmpfs to decrease the number of writes to my SSDs.
[17:42] <TJ-> mamarley: No. I'll try in a VM later if your kernel tests show it still happening
[17:42] <mamarley> OK, I will let you know as soon as I have something.
[17:54] <Ilario> Hi all! I think that the package "account-plugin-irc" should be installed by default as it is needed to ask help here.
=== JanC_ is now known as JanC
[18:10] <mamarley> TJ-: Checking with an old kernel now...
[18:12] <TJ-> mamarley: it's got the attention of some senior devs; I'm trying to reproduce here
[18:19] <mamarley> TJ-: It happens with 3.12 too.
[18:21] <TJ-> mamarley: thanks
=== mamarley_ is now known as mamarley
[18:49] <TJ-> mamarley: Not 100% sure, but think I've caused it simply installing the trusty ISO into a new VM
[19:30] <TJ-> ironhalik: I've reproduced the UEFI installer failing to add an entry to the EFI boot menu here.
[19:42] <ironhalik> TJ-: thanks for doing that
[19:42] <ironhalik> Im not sure what exactly failed, tho
[19:43] <shapow> Hi, is it recommended to do a fresh install of ubuntu+1 instead of upgrading a 13.10 desktop? Also, once having installed ubuntu+1, would I ever need to reinstall it to have the latest version?
[19:43] <TJ-> ironhalik: I'd guess it is grub-install, since it has the script that calls on efibootmgr to add the entry
[19:44] <shapow> Or keep doing update-manager -d
[19:44] <ironhalik> it might have been borked gpt, something efi parition or ubiquity
[19:45] <ironhalik> the time it worked, I rewritten partition table with gparted, and manually created efi partition
[19:45] <ironhalik> considering I was doing some nasty stuff with the druve when trying to install windows, it might have been the partition table
[19:46] <ironhalik> still, it should be fool-proof :P Its hard enough to get ppl to at least try installing ubuntu ;>
[19:53] <ironhalik> shapow: I'd prefer doing a fresh install, since some packages might not be compatible with newer, prerelease ubuntu
[19:54] <shapow> Thanks
[19:54] <ironhalik> shapow: but once you got 14.04, doing apt-get dist-upgrade will get you a a final 14.04 somewhere in april :>
[19:54] <shapow> Sounds good
[19:55] <shapow> :-}
[20:18] <BluesKaj> the UEFI boot manager wouldn't show grub when I tried to install kubuntu 14.04 with all the W8.1 and those annoying recovery and lenovo rescue partitions before I switched to legacy mode
[20:19] <ironhalik> BluesKaj: I think this exactly the same problem I had previously
[20:20] <ironhalik> for me, gparting the drive with new GPT table, and manually creating the partitions with 'efi partition' seems to have helped
[20:21] <BluesKaj> was quite frustrating ironhalik, so just gave up on the EFI thing and wiped the drive clean with gparted and created ext4 /, /home and ntfs for dual booting with W7
[20:22] <ironhalik> yeah, I took me like 8 tries before it started working
[20:23] <ironhalik> I did a lot of DISKPART things in a blind, microsoft induced rage, when I was installing windows 8.1
[20:24] <BluesKaj> W8.1 isn't my cuppa tea anyway, so all is well ...I guess :)
[20:24] <ironhalik> ;>
[20:24] <ironhalik> well, I needed a single thinkpad tool for 5 seconds
[20:24] <ironhalik> and needed windows for that
[20:24] <ironhalik> and decided, what the hell, might as well see windows 8.1
[20:25] <BluesKaj> goodbye warranty on this new laptop tho, I think.
[20:25] <ironhalik> for formatting the drive? Im not 100% sure, but it shouldnt void the warranty
[20:26] <ironhalik> depends where you live, I guess
[20:26] <BluesKaj> not that Windows support ever did much for me in the past anyway. It took me a coupler
[20:26] <BluesKaj> a couple of yrs to realize linux was the way to go
[20:27] <ironhalik> some years ago, I was playing with linux and you mostly had to hack your way through everything to get it done
[20:27] <ironhalik> now, when I have contact with windows machines, it seems the other way around
[20:29] <ironhalik> I love the drivers issue - couple of years ago, linux was constantly bashed for the lack of support for webcams, printers etc. On windows it was 'Plug and Play'(TM)
[20:29] <ironhalik> the community went out of their way fixing stuff, and now it seems its the other way around :>
[20:29] <ironhalik> I plug in any webcam, even some not-intended-for-desktop-use, it works
[20:30] <Daekdroom> I was quite surprise when I found out I can connect my phone through USB and use its internet connection in Ubuntu but not in Windows 7.
[20:30] <ironhalik> on windows? digging through google for drivers
[20:30] <BluesKaj> been a linux user, mostly kubuntu for close to 10 yrs and yes the driver support for HW is much better nowadays
[20:30] <ironhalik> Daekdroom: yeah, for me the USB modem thingy works nicely. Didnt try it on win7
[20:31] <ironhalik> no, wait, using my nexus as wifi card worked on windows 7
[20:31] <ironhalik> but I used it because wifi and ehternet wouldnt work out of the box :>
[20:32] <ironhalik> so theres that
[20:32] <BluesKaj> I was impressed how the broadcom wifi driver enabled during the install with ubiquity
[20:32] <TJ-> Looks like the installer had a problem with UEFI boot menu additions
[20:32] <BluesKaj> on 14.04
[20:33] <ironhalik> BluesKaj: yeah, its funny considering broadcom tended to make the most problems
[20:33] <ironhalik> TJ-: Had? has it been fixed already? :>
[20:33] <TJ-> ironhalik: No... slip of the fingers :)
[20:33] <BluesKaj> yeah , so I've heard ironhalik
[20:34] <Daekdroom> ironhalik, I'm talking about using the cellphone's internet connection, not WiFI
[20:34] <Daekdroom> Apparently my cellphone doesn't support sharing its WiFi through USB =[
[20:34] <TJ-> Broadcom are horrendous to work with in embedded devices.. I've come to loathe the sight of a BCM device... can't even obtain basic technical data sheets on many parts
[20:34] <ironhalik> Daekdroom: dunno, I think it doesnt make a difference on my phone. I share the connection via USB. If Im connected to wifi, its wifi, if not, its cellphone
[20:35] <Daekdroom> Hm..
[20:35] <BluesKaj> I'm pretty hopeless with phones, altho I don't own a smartphone of any sort
[20:35] <Daekdroom> But do you connect to your mobile carrier's 3G (or EDGE or...) using Ubuntu?
[20:35] <pero> starting gdb gives me the following error "warning: the debug information found in "/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/dri/radeon_dri.so" does not match "/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/dri/i915_dri.so" (CRC mismatch).
[20:35] <pero> " but gdb runs seemingly fine. the files are also identical. where does this bug belong?
[20:36] <ironhalik> TJ-: and didnt broadcom promise full, open, docs for driver devs some time ago? :>
[20:36] <ironhalik> Daekdroom: yeah
[20:37] <soee> someone here tried to use nvidia-prime ?
[20:37] <ironhalik> Daekdroom: I got my phone docked. If my ISP goes out for some reaseon, I click USB tether and disable my original NIC on the PC
[20:37] <BluesKaj> guess I'm a luddite , still use a pay as you go motorola flip phone
[20:38] <Daekdroom> My phone is a bit old anyway.
[20:38] <Daekdroom> Atleast 3 and a half years I bought it.
[20:38] <ironhalik> Daekdroom: is it android?
[20:38] <Daekdroom> It's one of those smartphones without a proper smartphone OS (no, it's not Nokia)
[20:39] <ironhalik> oh
[20:39] <BluesKaj> heh, mine is at least 5yrsold
[20:39] <Daekdroom> Proprietary Samsung thingie, whatever it is.
[20:39] <ironhalik> Daekdroom: that might be nasty :>
[20:39] <Daekdroom> I was feeling like buying a Firefox OS phone, but it'd actually be a downgrade from my current's phone camera, which is like the only thing that still works properly.
[20:39] <ironhalik> every time I see phone market share, and see that Symbian went from 0.4 to 0.3% share, I laugh maniacally
[20:40] <Daekdroom> The web browser is bad. The headphone jack-in is broken etc.
[20:41] <ironhalik> Daekdroom: depends what you need. I do some android dev stuff, so having a maintainable android phone is a must for me
[20:41] <Daekdroom> I'm trying as hard not to get sucked into Google any more. They've been evil lately.
[20:41] <ironhalik> google showed me the middle finger with not updating galaxy nexus, but community ported it couple of days later :P
[20:42] <Daekdroom> Oh the community.
[20:42] <ironhalik> Daekdroom: TBH, I dont really care. Their services are usually awesome. From big things like gmail to less noticable things like pagespeed or webmaster tools
[20:44] <Daekdroom> GMail is purrfect, bar a little privacy concern (because Google has so many services we use every day in its hands)
[20:45] <ironhalik> its hard to get service like that without getting some privacy concers with it :>
[20:46] <ironhalik> like, camera auto upload. It changed the way I take photos. But techically, if I make a, lets say, special photo of my GF and it gets uploaded (still being private), my account can get banned :>
[20:51] <TJ-> But if you paste it on the wall in a gallery ... it's Art
[20:53] <ironhalik> depends on the GF :P
[20:55] <BluesKaj> we use dropbox to share family photos, sometimes picasa as well. Google ubiquitous , there's no getting away from it , or so it seems
[20:57] <BluesKaj> stuff to do for a few mins
[20:57] <TJ-> I won't use any online service for personal/private materials; from the late 90's its been a concern of mine at how people slide into allowing the mining and use of their private files and information
[20:58] <ironhalik> TJ-: the definition of private changes ;>
[20:58] <TJ-> Yours might; mine hasn't. If anything its become more tightly defined
[20:59] <ironhalik> in 10-15 years, how many teenagers with naked, newborn pictures of them on facebook will be there? :>
[21:00] <ironhalik> well, really private stuff, like 'special' pictures go into encrypted .7z's :P
[21:00] <ironhalik> so our definitons might not be far off
[21:01] <ironhalik> I've had a friend who worked at a phone warranty shop
[21:02] <ironhalik> people make pics, write stuff, then they damage the screen or something, and send it in for repair
[21:02] <ironhalik> dont even consider that a phone is a gold mine for private stuff
[21:03] <TJ-> ironhalik: Yes... and then live to regret it for ever... I know of people that have killed themselves as a result of the fallout of such things. At the time they just didn't take time to think.
[21:04] <roothorick> re: the UEFI bug... I think I'm good. I'm in the BIOS setup and it has an entry titled "ubuntu" in the boot order menu
[21:04] <roothorick> strangely "Windows Boot Manager" is still there also even though that HDD isn't even present
[21:05] <ironhalik> roothorick: the firmware will keep it. You can remove it with efibootmgr later
[21:05] <roothorick> actually I think there's an option to remove it from the BIOS
[21:05] <TJ-> roothorick: Yay :)
[21:06] <ironhalik> remove from boot order or remove entirely?
[21:06] <roothorick> remove entirely I think
[21:06] <TJ-> roothorick: It isn't strange; UEFI boot menu is kept in non-volatile memory on the motherboard
[21:06] <ironhalik> nice, and dangerous for end users :>
[21:06] <roothorick> on the right it says: 'Delete' deletes an unprotected device.
[21:07] <roothorick> and I hit Delete on WBM and it added an X next to it
[21:07] <roothorick> holy crap that boots fast
[21:07] <ironhalik> on my thinkpad, it goes to 'use later' list
[21:07] <TJ-> roothorick: You can delete using a manual UEFI shell, the Linux efibootmgr, or some facility in the mobo's firmware setup
[21:08] <roothorick> yeah, I just popped back into the BIOS, and it's gone
[21:08] <roothorick> I'm gonna time this
[21:08] <roothorick> I'm running Trusty, GNOME variant, 64bit
[21:09] <roothorick> using a Samsung 840 series SSD
[21:09] <ironhalik> roothorick: btw, what did you do to make it work?
[21:09] <roothorick> nothing really
[21:09] <roothorick> I haven't had to do any special workarounds
[21:10] <roothorick> maybe it's because this is a refurb but
[21:10] <roothorick> when I got it, secure boot was already disabled
[21:10] <roothorick> anyway
[21:10] <ironhalik> for me, full wipe seems to have helped
[21:10] <roothorick> power button to login screen in 18.54 seconds
[21:10] <roothorick> I'm in awe
[21:10] <ironhalik> no I need to time mine :>
[21:10] <roothorick> even win8 couldn't do that
[21:12] <ironhalik> 20.5 on intel 520 SSD
[21:12] <TJ-> Mine takes about 2 seconds
[21:13] <TJ-> Then again, I only ever suspend to RAM :p
[21:13] <roothorick> holy crap this thing's snappy
[21:13] <ironhalik> hey, you reboot it once in two months
[21:13] <roothorick> okay, it's true, SSDs need AHCI to truly shine
[21:13] <roothorick> this SSD was in an ancient laptop that didn't do AHCI before this
[21:13] <roothorick> it was NOWHERE NEAR this fast
[21:16] <TJ-> roothorick: You'll probably find the older PC had a slower SATA interface SATA1 not SATA2, or similar
[21:17] <roothorick> my only real beef right now is the touchpad is set up all weird
[21:17] <roothorick> I'm gonna try to set it up to not do pointer movement at all so I can use my nub
[21:17] <Daekdroom> It's time to download and install 14.04!
[21:17] <Daekdroom> !daily
[21:17] <ubottu> Daily builds of the CD images of the current development version of Ubuntu are available at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[21:19] <roothorick> the heck? gsynaptics contains... nothing
[21:19] <roothorick> I want something that shows me the raw coordinates coming out of the touchpad :/
[21:22] <ironhalik> something like xev?
[21:24] <roothorick> looks like evtest does the job
[21:24] <roothorick> my plan is to make the entire touchpad area covered by button-press "dead zones" so it never sends pointer movements at all
[21:25] <roothorick> and then use the nub for actually moving the pointer
[21:27] <ironhalik> if you have a hub, you most likely can disable the touchpad entirely :>
[21:28] <ironhalik> nub*
[21:29] <TJ-> A hub-nub :p
[21:29] <ironhalik> the proper name for it is a clit
[21:30] <roothorick> ironhalik: here's the thing. There's no actual buttons for clicking, instead the top of the touchpad is supposed to stand in for the nub's buttons
[21:30] <ironhalik> the only clit people calling it like that get to play with
[21:30] <ironhalik> roothorick: some newer thinkpad?
[21:30] <roothorick> yeah
[21:30] <roothorick> Edge series with an i5
[21:30] <ironhalik> if you disable it in BIOS, the buttons should still work
[21:30] <ironhalik> I think
[21:31] <roothorick> I'll try playing with synclient first
[21:31] <ironhalik> unless they fucked it up, like they did with, well, buttonless trackpoints :P
[21:31] <roothorick> because it'd be nice to use the middle of the touchpad like a scroll wheel too
[21:31] <ironhalik> I know synaptics drivers had that option on windows
[21:32] <ironhalik> use nub for pointing, touchpad for scrolling
[21:33] <BluesKaj> touchpad is apita for me, wireless minimouse to the rescue :)
[21:34] <ironhalik> kills the portability for me
[21:35] <roothorick> well that was easy
[21:35] <BluesKaj> I don't travel much anymore , but when i do i always find a way to accommodate the mouse
[21:35] <roothorick> synclient AreaLeftEdge=1 AreaRightEdge=2 AreaTopEdge=1 AreaBottomEdge=2
[21:35] <roothorick> touchpad still clicks but no cursor movement
[21:39] <TJ-> ironhalik: Just found this in "/var/log/installer/syslog" : "ubuntu ubiquity: Can't access efivars filesystem at /sys/firmware/efi/efivars, aborting"
[21:39] <BluesKaj> well, time for other activities, take care all...laters
[21:39] <TJ-> ironhalik: which suggests the VM didn't start in EFI mode
[21:39] <ironhalik> TJ-: huh, nice find
[21:40] <TJ-> ironhalik: But... the top of the log shows the kernel command-line: "Command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/casper/vmlinuz.efi..."
[21:40] <ironhalik> TJ-: are you in the live session right now?
[21:41] <ironhalik> check if ubuntu got added to efi boot options
[21:41] <ironhalik> for me, it was there, yer it still didnt boot
[21:41] <TJ-> ironhalik: No, I'm reading the log-file that was created during installation in the live session, and copied to the installed system's "/var/log/installer/"
[21:41] <TJ-> ironhalik: That's what I'm debugging - why it wasn't added to the EFI boot menu... and that message expains why
[21:43] <TJ-> ironhalik: I'm thinking the installer isn't mounting the sysfs's firmware node when it chroot's
[21:44] <TJ-> ironhalik: The EFI modules are built-in to the kernel so it isn't a failure to load a module
[21:44] <roothorick> well, it doesn't seem possible to do the scrolling thing like I want
[21:44] <roothorick> but everything else is working
[21:44] <roothorick> I can even middle click by the middle of the touchpad
[21:51] <ironhalik> TJ-: Hmm, I have the same error in my logs
[21:51] <ironhalik> and my installation is booting
[21:52] <TJ-> ironhalik: Was it a clean install or an update?
[21:52] <ironhalik> clean
[21:53] <ironhalik> also, /target/boot/efi does not have /EFI directory: exiting
[21:53] <TJ-> ironhalik: weird... well I'm seeing if the logs reveal anything more detailed. There are a couple of bug reports from last year showing something similar, Not seen it mentioned that it is reproducible in a VM though
[21:53] <TJ-> ironhalik: was it "05efi: debug: /target/boot/efi does not have /EFI directory: exiting"
[21:54] <ironhalik> yup
[21:54] <TJ-> ironhalik: Yeah, that's OK at that point since it is a clean install. Just means the installer has to create it
[22:00] <TJ-> ironhalik: got it..."log-output -t ubiquity chroot /target umount /sys" comes just before the chroot code that tries to read /sys/firmware/efi/*
[22:13] <roothorick> hm. Made a thing for my touchpad in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d, rebooted... X appears to be hanging
[22:15] <roothorick> wow. One typo can really screw you.
[22:17] <pero> " but gdb runs seemingly fine. the files are also identical. where does this bug belong?
[22:17] <pero> oops
[22:46] <roothorick> okay, how do I set up sysfs changes to persist?
[22:46] <imlostbro> I'm having trouble getting 'Details' to open in System Settings. Nothing pops up and when I go to Task Manager, I see gnome-control-center gradually hogging up ram. Does anyone know a fix??
[23:04] <Darkangel> how does 1 donate a server to Linux or ubuntu people?
[23:06] <TJ-> Darkangel: Tell us it won't run Ubuntu :p
[23:06] <jtaylor> what kind of server
[23:07] <jtaylor> I know the openblas people are looking for bleeding edge hardware
[23:07] <Darkangel> like LXC server or Virtual server how eer ya wanna call it lol
[23:07] <Darkangel> its a server that is built in the desktop
[23:07] <jtaylor> typically cpu power is not in such high demand in many projects
[23:10] <Darkangel> what can i do to subport ubuntu with it
[23:10] <jtaylor> you could check travis, but I don't think they need more, not a single box at least :)
[23:10] <Darkangel> ok
[23:11] <TJ-> Darkangel: best support is to test latest images and accurately report bugs found
[23:11] <ironhalik> thats work, not donation :P
[23:13] <Darkangel> ya i been doin that with Ubuntu 14.04 LTS alpha 1 : )
[23:14] <TJ-> It's donating time!
[23:14] <TJ-> time is the most valuable donation in open source
[23:15] <Darkangel> just woundering when do they start workin on Ubuntu 14.10? so i can start testing that out when they come out with 14.04 for the regular users?
[23:15] <jtaylor> 14.10 opens shortly after 14.04 is out
[23:16] <Darkangel> ok
[23:16] <jtaylor> there is no parallel development like in debian
=== nickoe__ is now known as nickoe
=== lfaraone_ is now known as lfaraone