knomedouble-click the desktop00:00
knome= napsauta työpöytää hiiren oikealla painikkeella00:00
bluesabrebut en_US is different than en_GB00:00
bluesabreTrash Can vs Rubbish Bin00:00
knomeyes, but both have a shared language name: English00:00
bluesabreok, another example, chinese00:00
knomesure, but if the menu shows the selected language when opened, why show almost 100% the time redundant information?00:01
bluesabreto know what variant you have at a glance without opening the menu?00:03
bluesabreprobably handy for translators00:04
knomehow many people use several variants of a single language?00:04
knomeso we are designing the default greeter for translators, not users?00:04
* knome facepalms00:04
bluesabrewhat real benefit is there to not showing the locale?00:05
knomeless clutter00:05
knomewhat real benefir is there to show the locale?00:05
knomecurrently, we're showing an icon00:05
bluesabreI have a good reason now00:06
bluesabreinput method00:06
knomeis that tied to the locale+00:06
knomei mean, can't you have a northern chinese input method even if you are using the finnish language?00:07
knomesure you can.00:07
bluesabrechanges the keyboard layout though00:07
knomenot sure if even that is true00:07
knomeor, 00:07
knomeif it can't be unlinked00:07
knomelanguage is language00:07
knomelocale is locale00:07
knomeinput method is input method00:08
knomeand yes, you guessed it,00:08
knomekeyboard layout is keyboard layout00:08
knomethey barely have nothing to do with each other00:08
knomeexcept that *usually*, you don't mix them (too much)00:08
bluesabrewhile I was working at the college, there were some international students with key locations swapped because of their locale00:10
bluesabreso they would bring it in and we wouldn't be able to type correctly00:10
knomei'm not saying locale can't affect the rest of the stuff00:10
knomewhether it should... that's debatable00:10
knomein most cases, it makes sense00:10
bluesabreI'm just saying that it can be a usability visual cue00:11
knomebluesabre, tell me (unrelated)00:12
knomewhy does my power button just switch the pc off00:12
knomewhen power button is pressed: nothing00:13
knomein xfce4-power-manager00:13
bluesabrethats a known bug00:13
knomeand, how do i fix it00:13
bluesabreand I bet Unit193 can find it faster than me!00:13
bluesabrethere's currently no fix I believe00:13
knomeany workaround?00:14
knomethat sucks.00:14
bluesabreunless there is one downstream in suse00:14
Unit193Not likely, right?  I'm bit busy. :P00:14
knomei'm used to use that to open the logout menu00:14
Unit193/etc/systemd/logind.conf 00:14
bluesabrebbiab, dinner time00:14
knomeUnit193, and the workaround? :P00:15
knomeok, i fixed that00:18
knomei didn't00:18
knomewell the button is ignored now00:18
ochosiknome: i was away, but i really think the discussion is a bit ridiculous, given that we're talking about 2 vs. 4 chars00:19
knomeochosi, we've had discussions about single pixels00:19
ochosianyhow, as bluesabre and me seem to be both ok with passing along whatever we get from lightdm, i think we'll go with that00:20
knomemy opinion will be smelly00:20
ochosii also don't feel like doing string-operations on that and then maybe failing or showing misleading info00:20
ochosiyeah, feel free to report a bug against lightdm ;)00:20
ochosiand i have to admit i've become weary of single-pixel discussions00:21
knomeas long as you accept that you might be offering misleading information with showing everything as well.00:22
ochosino, i reject that in fact00:22
ochosithen you can say that the menu is offering misleading choices00:22
ochosiand if you do that, go complain to lightdm00:22
ochosiit has nothing to do with the greeter00:23
knomeexcept if the menu overrides all settings00:23
ochosiso it's simply an invalid bugreport00:23
ochosinot sure what you're talking about now00:23
ochosiand even less so, how that is related to changing the flag to the code00:23
knomefix my stupid power key.00:23
ochosiuse the stupid PPA with the fix00:24
knomewhere the stupid PPA is00:24
ochosiit's one of Noskcaj's00:24
ochosiand has powermanager in its name i think00:24
* knome sighs00:25
knomeyay for Noskcaj00:27
knomenow meh00:27
bluesabreoh good, it resolved itself :)00:43
bluesabrealrighty, menulibre time00:44
ochosibrainwash: so 1) and 2) are fixed01:33
ochosiwaiting for your patches :>01:33
* Noskcaj heard knome was discussing en_AU.02:02
Noskcajnow if i can just find the old translation script02:03
ochosiNoskcaj: for clarification: it was about the latest commit to the greeter, which shows the language code instead of the flag-icon now02:04
NoskcajI saw. It's a good thing to change02:04
ochosiyup, greeter received lots of love in the last weeks02:05
brainwashochosi: oh, I planned to look at the new issues somewhat soon, but let me mention them here 1) when you enable larger fonts via menu, the menus are drawn partially offscreen 2) reverting to normal font size does not rescale the top panel and login box properly 3) the onboard window cannot be closed via its "X" button09:54
ochosibrainwash: ok, waiting for those patches then :)10:38
knomehey ochosi,10:38
ochosioy knome 10:38
knomehave you planned to run moderation on ~xubuntu-art proposed members?10:38
ochosihmm, i can do that10:39
ochosiso far i've always rejected all members and sent them an email asking them to introduce themselves10:39
knomefor your convenience: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Toolbox/Messages10:39
ochosino-one ever repliked10:40
knomebut, if you have another template, you could add it there as well10:40
knomeyeah, i'm not surprised ;)10:40
ochosimkay, will take a look at how many are pending atm10:41
knomejust asked because one recently popped up10:41
ochosibtw, if you wanna test the greeter language menu (and get angry at it again ;)), you can use the greeter's daily ppa, i pushed it yesterday night10:41
knomeyour way is probably better than the short, general message10:41
knomei probably should, and look if i can get what i want with changing LC_IDENTIFICATION10:41
knomethough i guess not10:42
ochosiup to you10:42
ochosibut don't complain after 14.04 is released ;)10:42
knomewell, if the "default" locale for a language is two-letter, i don't personally have a problem10:43
ochosiok, then i guess it's fine10:45
ochosiok, only one pending member, sent msg10:45
slickymastermorning all11:13
slickymasterbluesabre: you around?11:20
bluesabrehey slickymaster: just got here11:21
slickymasterbluesabre: dou you have a minute or two to talk about mugshot docs?11:21
bluesabresure, works for me11:23
bluesabretbh, I haven't really thought much about it.  Mugshot already has some mallard documentation in its repository, so you might able to use that as a starting point11:24
slickymasterwell, My first question would be exactly that11:25
slickymasteris the documentation intended to be made on mallard, dockbook,...?11:25
bluesabreI think I might do what xfce does and use dokuwiki (since I've already been getting familiar with it)11:26
slickymasterto me that would be great, since I've never worked with Mallard and I have no problems with dokuwiki11:28
ochosiyeah, i think dokuwiki is a great choice11:28
ochosinicer learning curve imo :)11:28
ochosiand to the worst you can use html for offline docs11:28
slickymasterif knome won't object to it, I' would bo for dokuwiki11:28
slickymasterexactly ochosi 11:28
bluesabreits my project, what's he going to say about it :P11:28
* bluesabre hides11:29
slickymasteryeah, we'll showing who's the boss11:29
* slickymaster also hides11:29
slickymasterbluesabre: can you provide me the mugshot repository link, so I can take a look at the already existing docs?11:30
bluesabreslickymaster: https://code.launchpad.net/~mugshot-dev/mugshot/trunk11:31
bluesabreyou'll find the docs under ./help/C11:31
slickymasteroh, it's in LP11:31
slickymasterbtw bluesabre, you mentioned here, the other day, something about the help button. Were you referring to big 122920511:32
slickymasterbug 1229205 ^^11:33
ubottubug 1229205 in Mugshot "Help button results in Document not found" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/122920511:33
bluesabreslickymaster: I was originally going to remove that button, but since you'll be updating the docs, I'll update that button to open the online docs11:34
slickymasterbluesabre: will you set up everything at http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php for the mugshot docs, or do you want me to?11:35
bluesabreslickymaster: if you're able to, please do11:36
bluesabreI think I made you an admin, so you have free reign11:37
slickymasterdo I have permissions to set up a new namespace?11:37
bluesabreI think so11:37
slickymasterthat's all I think11:37
bluesabreI made you an admin, you might have to log out/in11:39
knomebluesabre, slickymaster: as i've said, i don't mind how the upstream docs are written... but we'll want some portions of it in docbook for the xubuntu docs11:39
bluesabrebut thats a different project altogether :)11:40
bluesabrebtw HI knome!11:40
slickymasterknome: can't it be ported afterwards?11:40
knomebut just that you both acknowledge that we need that as well11:40
knomeslickymaster, most definitely11:40
knomehello bluesabre ;)11:40
slickymasterand a good morning knome 11:41
slickymastereven though it's almost lunch time :P11:41
knomemorning slickymaster 11:41
knomeyeah, it's definitely lunch time11:41
knomei was just thinking what i'd eat11:41
knomewe haven't got much in the fridge, so i might not have many options11:41
slickymasterbbl ->12:19
brainwashochosi: can you fix the greeter menu text shadows too please?13:38
elfyhi brainwash 13:39
ochosiyeah yeah, i said i'll do that when i'm done with the greeter13:39
elfyand you too :)13:39
ochosihey elfy 13:39
brainwashhi elfy 13:39
ochosii'm already practically done with the session-menu, but i wanna support as many sessions as possible13:39
brainwashhow many does unity-greeter support?13:41
ochosinot so many13:41
brainwashdoesn't it simply display the session .desktop icon?13:41
ochosiunity-greeter has a weird custom system13:41
ochosii implemented a more standard-compliant version13:42
ochosithey use pngs, i use symbolic svgs13:42
ochosithey use /usr/share/unity-greeter/*_badge.png, i use /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/places13:42
brainwashbut how do you determine which icon to use?13:42
ochosiso actually ppl can add support for their session by adding icons to their icon-theme13:43
ochosigtk_image_set_from_icon_name (GTK_IMAGE(session_badge), g_strdup_printf ("%s_badge-symbolic", current_session),13:43
ochosifallback is the gear-icon13:43
brainwashmmh, ok13:44
ochosianyway, i might push things as they are now and i can add support for more sessions later easily13:44
brainwashwhat about the mixed session like Gnome/openbox?13:45
ochosidepending on what session-string they set, they get an icon (or fallback if there's no match)13:45
ochosiso it's not the greeter's responsibility in fact, but the session's13:46
ochosibrainwash: how many sessions do you have installed now?14:02
ochosizequence: ping14:05
brainwashochosi: most14:06
ochosiok, then i'm looking forward to you testing the session-menu :)14:06
sergio-br2hello everybory14:07
brainwashI'll add MATE too, should be available via ubuntu's repo now14:07
sergio-br2ochosi, elementary-xfce is still based on elementary?14:08
ochosibrainwash: don't have a mate-badge yet14:08
knomeochosi, how does one test the greeter then14:08
ochosiknome: add the lightdm-gtk-greeter daily PPA14:08
ochosisergio-br2: well yes, kinda. i manually merge stuff from upstream, if it doesn't mess with the consistency. but there is no real automatic sync anymore14:09
brainwashso changes are already merged?14:09
ochosibrainwash: not yet14:09
ochosii need a few more minutes14:09
sergio-br2ochosi, so i can use icons from there?14:09
ochosiand then i need to manually trigger a rebuild of the PPA, so don't expect anything before 1hr or so from now14:09
ochosisergio-br2: you can, as long as you provide a consistent look across all sizes14:09
brainwashthe new square terminal icon looks stupid in deskbar mode, forgot to mention this before14:10
brainwasha terminal is not meant to be square14:11
brainwashochosi: do you like the new terminal icon?14:12
sergio-br2are there other icon theme similar to elementary-xfce?14:12
ochosisergio-br2: there are others based on elementary, like ubuntu's humanity, but to be frank, it's quite unmaintained for a long time. so there's nothing worth mentioning that i know of14:13
ochosibrainwash: i just fixed it, personally i don't care so much about every li14:13
ochosili'l icon14:14
ochosii merge icons from elementary upstream that are consistent14:14
ochosiand i don't mind square icons14:14
sergio-br2ochosi, could you see later if my pull is right? just a feedback14:15
brainwashochosi: I don't suggest changing it, so I'll just revert it locally14:15
ochosisergio-br2: yeah, it looks ok technically, still gotta review the icons14:16
ochosisergio-br2: don't have much time now, so i just looked at calculator and that looks fine!14:18
sergio-br2i tried to align somethings to pixel unity, so it fit better when is converted to png14:18
ochosiyeah, you always have to align everything to the grid14:18
ochosiotherwise -> fuzzy mess14:18
sergio-br2are any plan to use 256 pixel icons? 14:20
ochosiwe can add them, but they're not used in xfce anywhere14:20
ochosii've been maintaining that icon theme pretty much alone for a long time now14:20
zequenceochosi: pong14:21
ochosiand i don't have so much time for it with all the other things i'm working on14:21
ochosizequence: what greeter does ubuntu-studio use? unity or lightdm-gtk?14:21
ochosizequence: and do you install a session-badge for unity-greeter?14:21
zequenceochosi: What's that?14:22
ochosizequence: ok, i guess not then :}14:22
ochosiit's a white png of the studio-logo14:22
ochosigoes into /usr/share/unity-greeter/14:22
zequencehmm, no I don't think we have added that yet14:22
ochosithing is that i've added support for session-badges in the lightdm-gtk-greeter just now (about to merge it)14:23
ochosiand i added a badge for you guys as well, but i need to know the name of your session14:23
ochosithe unity-badge would've been one way of easily finding that out14:23
zequenceit's "ubuntustudio"14:23
ochosioh, cool, you know it14:24
ochosithese are the badges i've added so far: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-01162014-032426pm.php14:24
zequenceLooks good :)14:25
ochosiin case it's not clear what i'm talking about: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-01162014-013359pm.php14:25
zequenceOk, so the session is chosen from the top bar14:26
ochosithat was also the case before14:27
ochosiso that's not a new change or anything14:27
ochosibefore it just showed a generic gear-icon14:27
ochosi(and still does, if you use gtk2 or a session that has no badge)14:27
ali1234ochosi: did you ever want to make a theme where the active/inactive borders are a different size?14:38
ali1234because i am going to make that possible14:38
ali1234actually, forget that idea, it would mean patching half the source files14:42
ali1234however, you can have different sized corners :)14:42
ochosiali1234: sounded interesting :)14:45
ochosii guess it's not possible until xfwm4 is gtk3, but support for the dark_theme setting could also be nice14:45
ali1234i dunno what that means14:45
ochosiapps can ask gtk3 for a dark theme variant14:46
ochosiso the whole UI of e.g. video-players, image-viewers goes dark14:46
ochosinot exactly a prime example of UI consistency ;)14:46
ochosihas caused some flamewars, but i can still see the point to some extent14:46
ochosi(greybird doesn't feature a dark variant on purpose not to have that weird bright window-border in xfce)14:47
pmjdebruijnthat makes sense :)14:48
pmjdebruijnshould be everything or nothing :)14:48
ochosisays the guy who made darktable use a custom dark gtkrc file? :D14:49
ochosiok, so the session-menu has been pushed and a PPA rebuild is queued15:13
pmjdebruijnochosi: touche15:20
pmjdebruijnochosi: we actually tried to hint the gnome3 wm with the gtk3 dark reques thint, but it didn't work :)15:20
pmjdebruijnochosi: and more importantly, darktable is meant to be used fullscreen anyhow :D15:20
ochosipmjdebruijn: i'm surprised it didn't work with mutter, usually it should work fine with dark themes...15:25
pmjdebruijnthe hint is only easy to set with gtk315:31
pmjdebruijnwe briefly tried to kludge it with gtk2, but we didn't bother investing too much time15:31
ochosiah right, darktable is still gtk2 :/15:31
pmjdebruijnwe're porting slowly15:31
pmjdebruijnlatest release has all the gtk3 changes that don't break gtk215:32
pmjdebruijnnow we're working on the gtk2 breaking changes for the next major release :)15:32
ochosisounds nice15:33
ochosiisn't porting just a lot of fun...15:34
pmjdebruijnyeah, we're lucky to have a contributor do it for us :)15:34
pmjdebruijnbut contributing a gtk2/gtk3 port sortof makes him a core dev :)15:34
ochosiali1234: i forgot to paste that before, here's an example of an app using the gtk3 dark style: http://www.deviantart.com/art/gthumb-never-looked-sexier-42698121215:40
ochosibrainwash: greeter should be built and greybird has been fixed15:55
ochosii guess i'll modify the greeter theme more heavily before the release, but this should be ok for testing now15:55
brainwashok, I'll test it later today15:56
ochosii'd be interested in which badges work :}15:56
knomeochosi, is the xfce session badge supposed to work with whatever version is in PPA now?16:36
le_profpardon for interrupting, but as one who admins a small subnet of laptops with Pentium M processors, how complicated is it to include the code that fakes the PAE reporting for the new kernels?16:42
le_profupgrades have become a huge time sink...:-(16:43
knomeinclude the code where?16:46
le_profin the install program16:46
knomewon't do that for the main xubuntu images, but it should be pretty trivial to add that to a remastered image16:47
le_profI get that...there is still an awful lot of older hardware out there though...and not all are capable16:48
knomeyes, and since people usually only need to install one system.. it's barely a problem16:48
knomethere are images prebuilt for lubuntu with fake-pae16:49
knomeUnit193, tell us how hard it would be to modify any existing ISO and patch it with fake-pae16:50
knomeUnit193, with a script, that is16:50
le_prof! musta missed that...BBL16:50
ubottule_prof: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)16:50
ochosiknome: no, it uses the fallback until you send me the badge and i svg it16:53
knomei'm pretty sure i have it as svg16:53
ochosiok, then send it to me in 16px16:54
knomeyes yes, when i'm on my desktop :P16:54
brainwashochosi: so all the standalone wm session entries fall back to cog icon, like expected17:12
brainwashlubuntu does not show its icon17:13
brainwashthe ubuntu icon is to grey-ish17:13
ochosibrainwash: ok, so lubuntu has a different session name then. and the ubuntu icon needs some fixes. feel free to add icons for standalone sessions in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/places17:32
brainwashyou really want to add icons for the basic wm only sessions?17:35
brainwashicons for cinnamon and so on would be nice17:37
brainwashthe popular/major desktop environemts17:37
brainwashI'm not sure how to reproduce it, but I was always able to move the top panel twice already17:40
elfybrainwash: do you remember what the bug was that caused this? http://imagebin.org/28705117:49
elfyyay got live image working - now to track down all the myriad dupes17:49
brainwashelfy: xfdesktop --reload  fixed this, right?17:50
elfyno - didn't know what it was - just really checking that the iso loaded now17:51
elfyclosed it again now - but I'll look later to see if it does17:52
brainwashso try to reload it17:52
elfynot now - just got in17:52
brainwashthe daily iso already ships xfdesktop4 4.11.217:53
brainwashlet me find my own bug report17:54
brainwashelfy: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1060517:55
ubottubugzilla.xfce.org bug 10605 in General "Desktop icons/labels are not properly themed after login" [Normal,New]17:55
brainwasheric_the_idiot: ^17:56
brainwashgot a possible fix which I could test?17:57
knomeochosi, ygm18:04
elfybrainwash: yea - that's it - is there a LP one for it?18:04
brainwashelfy: no, haven't seen one yet18:16
elfyok - well I'll do one at some point then if it's necessary - particularly prior to us testing A2 next week - easier if there is one there - cuts down on dupes sometimes18:17
brainwashadd it to the know issues list18:17
elfywell you'd best do that then - I've not seen any known issue list18:18
elfyyou seem to know about one :)18:18
brainwashdidn't the A1 announcement page have one?18:19
elfythat would have done yes18:19
elfythought you meant a sensible list that everyone knew about18:19
brainwashso A2 will still lack most of the new stuff?18:20
elfywho knows18:21
elfyI don't18:21
brainwashincluding possible panel layout changes and gtk3 indicators18:21
elfywell - not completely sure when the image gets frozen other than soon18:23
elfybut I would have to assume at this point - the answer to that is a no18:23
elfythe next milestone will be the end of February18:25
elfyso - I'd have to hope we get all these things in by then at least18:25
knomebrainwash, things will move forward faster if more people are helping18:26
brainwashmore people with merge/upload permissions are needed :/18:33
knomeyes, but more people can help get stuff into sponsorship queues, create patches/diffs etc to improve the situation even without new uploaders18:33
knomewhining doesn't, unfortunately, help18:33
knomeotherwise we would have gotten a lot more things done in the past and during this cycle18:34
elfyperhaps people knowing about that stuff can pass on the information to those who don't for the things that they could do 18:36
elfysponsorship queues etc18:36
elfyback at 718:36
knomesure... but won't do it unless asked, because it's a waste of time to tell people who are unwilling to help18:36
elfyof course18:41
brainwashknome: I mean it's currently not that easy to test the daily iso and contribute with patches/fixes18:50
brainwashif the tester is required to use all the PPAs18:51
knomei understand18:51
elfybrainwash: that said - people testing the daily iso are testing it - warts and all19:04
elfythose wanting to test with the ppa's know - they got told19:04
ali1234so i just finished implementing support for gtk 3.10 header bar apps in xfwm19:08
knomewe should have a meeting :P19:08
ali1234it's ready for testing if yer brave19:08
knomewho's here?19:08
ali1234o/ obviously19:08
elfyhi ali1234 - didn't see you there :p19:09
knome#startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting19:09
meetingologyMeeting started Thu Jan 16 19:09:39 2014 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.19:09
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired19:09
knome!team | meeting time19:09
ubottumeeting time: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit19319:09
knome#topic Items carried on19:10
knome#subtopic Open action items19:10
knome#action ali1234 follows up on gtk3 indicator status 19:10
meetingologyACTION: ali1234 follows up on gtk3 indicator status19:10
knomeisn't that all done now?19:10
ali1234not as far as i know19:10
knomeaha, so what are we missing?19:10
ali1234well we're missing indicators that work at all in trusty19:11
ali1234the upstart stuff is still a blocker19:11
ali1234this affects unity too of course19:11
ali1234it's up to them to fix it19:11
knomethen let's carry on with that19:11
ali1234afaik nothing has changed with that since last time19:11
knome#action elfy and knome/ochosi to discuss lightlocker testing - perhaps include old post install testing in that 19:12
meetingologyACTION: elfy and knome/ochosi to discuss lightlocker testing - perhaps include old post install testing in that19:12
ali1234we have all our ducks in a row afaik19:12
knomeelfy did discuss the future of -testers with me19:12
knome#info for now, we will keep -testers, but make the members expire every 6 months unless they extend their membership manually19:12
knome#action ochosi and knome to come up with more testing stuff later (within a week)19:13
meetingologyACTION: ochosi and knome to come up with more testing stuff later (within a week)19:13
knomewell, ochosi did19:13
knomebut let's carry on, we will still prepare even more stuff19:13
knome#action knome to be in touch with people re Tech Lead position 19:13
meetingologyACTION: knome to be in touch with people re Tech Lead position19:13
knome....aaaand i've got the session fix uploaded19:13
knome#action ochosi to follow up on xfce 4.12 release with nick and report back 19:13
meetingologyACTION: ochosi to follow up on xfce 4.12 release with nick and report back19:13
elfyyep - ty knome 19:13
knomeochosi doesn't seem to be around, so carrying that19:14
knome#topic Team updates19:14
knomeplease use #info and #action as appropriate19:14
elfyyou want mine19:14
knome(and you're free to go!)19:14
elfy#info Called for Xubuntu Application package tests this week19:14
elfy#info Preparing call for Alpha 2 for next week19:14
elfy#info Calls have been going out to xubuntu-testers for most of the cycle19:14
elfy#info Have been noticing new names on the package tracker reports - so one of the calls is working - perhaps it's that call19:15
elfy#info 32bit image tests in the last 7 days = 9 ; 64bit same period = 319:15
elfy#info package testing 'appear's to receive more constant testing19:15
elfy#info package testing 'appear's to receive more constant testing19:15
elfy#info xubuntu-qa checking/improving/fixing testcases for each package call prior to call19:15
elfy#action Xubuntu-QA - what is blocking https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1256898 , contact team where necessary19:15
meetingologyACTION: Xubuntu-QA - what is blocking https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1256898 , contact team where necessary19:15
ubottuUbuntu bug 1256898 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Test Needed : xfce4 session handling" [Undecided,In progress]19:15
jjfrv8#info knome helped jjfrv8 update blueprint for t-docs19:16
jjfrv8#info knome sent a call to the ML for doc contributors19:16
knome#info knome helped ochosi updated blueprint for t-features19:16
jjfrv8#info knome volunteered to look into the graphics problem with bug 120749319:16
ubottubug 1207493 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu Precise) "[SRU] Documentation does not match shipped system version (11.10 shipped with 12.04)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/120749319:16
knome#info knome has worked with improving the website, and we're getting nearer to release19:17
elfy#action  knome to look into the graphics problem with bug 120749319:17
meetingologyACTION: knome to look into the graphics problem with bug 120749319:17
knome#info knome updated the website content a bit19:17
knomei've put that on my todo for today19:17
knomeanything else?19:18
elfynot here19:18
jjfrv8me neither19:19
knomei know ochosi did things, but since he's not here, let's let him do the updates later19:19
lderan#info we have the first autopilot test for xubuntu merged19:19
knomeoh yay19:19
elfyknome: A2 due next week - I suspect we'll get a mail from Kate, if it looks like I've not seen it can you answer - not sure what time I'm about early next week19:20
knome#info ochosi and bluesabre worked on the lightdm-gtk-greeter19:20
elfylderan: sorry forgot that :(19:20
knomeelfy, iirc, kate hasn't signed up for that release task, but yep, somebody will be in touch with us19:20
lderanelfy, its okay :)19:20
elfy#action xubuntu-qa to update list of apps we can work autopilot with19:21
meetingologyACTION: xubuntu-qa to update list of apps we can work autopilot with19:21
elfyknome: how do you undo?19:21
meetingologyRemoving item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x1a406d0>19:21
elfy#action lderan to update list of apps we can work autopilot with19:21
meetingologyACTION: lderan to update list of apps we can work autopilot with19:21
knomeheh ;)19:21
elfyknome: ta :)19:21
knome#topic Announcements19:22
knomenothing from me19:22
knome#info A2 next week19:22
knomethat's it19:22
knomeanything else?19:22
knome#topic New and emerging items19:23
knome#subtopic Enabling more people to push to Xubuntu branches19:23
knome#info Carrying on, right people aren't around19:23
knome#subtopic Social media outlet interaction19:23
knome#info Carrying on, right people aren't around19:23
knome#subtopic Status of Bluetooth in Xubuntu19:23
knomeyes, you guessed it:19:23
knome#info Carrying on, right people aren't around19:23
knome#subtopic Discuss documentation translations 19:24
knomethere's a few things i want to discuss about, but we might want to have *more* people around19:24
knomewhat's our translation cut-off pergentage?19:24
knomeeg. if a language is translated less than n%, it's not included; what should n be?19:25
ali1234depends on the language19:25
jjfrv8fraid I don't have an informed opinion19:25
knomeali1234, in which way would it depend on the language?19:25
ali1234like en_GB could be 1% done and still completely fine19:25
ali1234since 99% of strings probably don't need any translation in that case19:26
knomeen_GB users could be able to read en_US to being with19:26
knome(so why ship the 1% translation?)19:26
ali1234because the 1% might include every single string that actually is different19:27
ali1234ie it can be 1% done according to metrics and 100% done in reality19:27
ali1234this is a corner case anyway :)19:27
knomewe're getting into translation technicalities, but in that case, the 99% should be translated with exactly the same strings19:27
knomebut yes, we need more people to discuss that one19:28
knomeanother question19:28
elfywouldn't this discussion be better served with some data/numbers19:28
knomedo we want to automatically guess the users language, or would we be fine with just showing an english startpage with a list of languages the documentation is shipped in19:28
knomeelfy, what kind of numbers?19:28
elfy% of translation in languages now19:29
knomesome data: 80% seems to be a relatively standard cut-off19:29
knomefinnish 100%19:29
knomeoccitan 17%19:30
elfyautomatically guessing is ok - but assumes that the user is using the language we guess at19:30
knomerussian 84%19:30
knomespanish 50%19:30
knomeportugues 50%19:30
knome100% :P19:30
knomei don't know how that helps in deciding though19:30
knomethe cut-off percentage is something the translators should *aim* at19:31
knomeand we still have time to tell them what it is19:31
knomeand they still have time to reach that19:31
ali1234i think it also depends which 50% is translated19:31
elfybecause without some data - all we're going to do is flail about guessing 19:31
elfyhow would we "or would we be fine with just showing an english startpage with a list of languages the documentation is shipped in"19:32
knomesince it will be an automated process, we can't decide on "what is translated"19:32
knomeelfy, that's actually the easier way...19:32
elfythen it's going to always be a guess - so why not just do what others do19:32
knomei don't know what others do :)19:32
knomewith the list, it's not a guess19:32
elfyif someone wants it in Occitan - then point them to how19:32
knomethe user can either go to the english or occitan language19:33
knomere: data or not,19:33
elfyI'm talking about the other 83%19:33
elfyknome> some data: 80% seems to be a relatively standard cut-off19:33
elfyso why not just do what others do19:33
knomei don't think it should matter if we have data or not...19:33
knomeif we get say 10 more languages in by lowering the cut-off % to 10, what does that matter if they are only 10% translated19:34
knomebecause that's really little19:34
knomeotoh requiring 100% is a bit... too tight :)19:34
knomeyeah, i'm fine with 80%19:34
knomethe other option is anything > 0%19:34
knomethe other relatively meaningful19:35
ali1234shipping the incomplete translations might encourage people to work on them19:35
knomewe're not moderating the translations though...19:35
knomeso allowing 1% translations might give us some unwanted results, like spam19:35
knomeif nobody happened to look at the translations19:36
ali1234yeah there's that too19:36
knomeso it does encourage to pump up the percentage19:36
knome10-20% starts to be quite a lot to translate without being serious19:36
knome(75-150 strings)19:36
ali1234how easy is it for people to get the not-shipped translations?19:36
elfyhow about finding the % translated for those over 60% then looking at those first19:37
knomeelfy, looking in what sense? moderating?19:37
knomeelfy, or including?19:37
knomeali1234, it's possible, but the regular user who needs the translation in his own language probably won't be able to do that very easilt19:38
elfysurpised that spanish is 50% 19:38
knomeali1234, and then there's actually building the translation with the .po file....19:38
knomeelfy, so, are you suggesting 60% as the cut-off percent?19:40
knomeelfy, or, suggesting that nearer to the end of the cycle, see if 60% would make sense?19:41
elfythe second 19:41
knome#info elfy suggests considering 60%19:41
meetingologyRemoving item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x17f4c10>19:41
knome#info elfy suggests considering 60% as the translations cut-off percentage19:42
knomethose are/were the two biggest questions i had19:42
elfybut it is just a guess - based on 50% Spanish surprising me 19:42
knome#subtopic Schedule next meeting 19:42
GridCube:/ im sorry abuot that19:42
knomeso A2 is next week19:42
knomedo we want to move the meeting for wed?19:42
elfyGridCube: lol 19:42
elfyknome: ok with me19:43
knomeor even tue?19:43
jjfrv8either is okay with me19:43
knomei guess that wouldn't make much sense actually19:43
elfyI'm good with any day at this time - just not much time here between now and Tues/Wed19:43
knomewe should even make it well before the freeze, or then just thu19:43
elfythen stay with Thursday - and make the one before the next milestone more about B1 perhaps19:44
knomeiirc, the freeze for A1 was moved to mon/tue/wed19:44
knomebut can't remember which19:44
knome#info Next meeting: Thu, Jan 23 at 19UTC19:45
meetingologyMeeting ended Thu Jan 16 19:45:32 2014 UTC.  19:45
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-01-16-19.09.moin.txt19:45
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-01-16-19.09.html19:45
brainwashso we got a working replacement for gnome-system-tools aka users-admin aka "users and groups"?19:48
brainwashthe new gnome version depends on the gnome settings manager and does not allow to configure groups19:48
elfyin what way configure?19:49
brainwashand can anyone confirm that bug 1016932 is still around? 13.10/14.0419:49
ubottubug 1016932 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "Setting user as administrator doesn't give him sudoing rights" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/101693219:49
brainwashelfy: kicking users out of groups, or create new groups19:50
brainwashthis stuff19:50
brainwashconfigure like in "manage"19:50
elfyI can move people in and out of groups ok here 19:50
elfynot tried to create new ones19:51
brainwashnono, xubuntu still ships the old gnome version19:51
brainwashwhich is not maintained anymore19:51
elfyoh right19:51
brainwashthe new version is crippled and required the gnome settings manager19:52
brainwashnot an option for us19:52
brainwashmate-users-admin could be one19:54
ali1234"whatever ubuntu uses" since they are forking all that stuff19:54
elfyno idea I'm afraid19:54
brainwashit's basically the same application19:54
brainwashbut maintained I guess19:54
brainwashand the mate desktop environment will be available in the ubuntu repos starting with 14.04 I think19:55
brainwashlooks promising19:58
brainwash"The MATE user admin program (mate-users-admin), when setting a user’s type to “Administrative”, does not add the user to the “sudo” group. The workaround is to explicitly add the user to the sudo group."20:01
brainwashno one cares to fix this20:01
knomethere's a new tool pretty much ready20:25
knomebut it's still hidden.20:25
Unit193knome: In theory not hard at all, but I've stayed very far away from the fake-pae stuff.  I like the docs landing page idea as well.20:38
knomeUnit193, do you have time now to mull over the docs stuff?20:39
Unit193I'm going to be making coffee, but otherwise..20:45
* genii sips20:45
knomeUnit193, well i can wait for you to come back :P20:46
knomewell, the translation stuff20:49
knomeand packaging20:49
knomeand modifying the startpage20:49
Unit193OK, so the startpage is something I Just tossed up to have links.  Packaging wouldn't be too hard for the second method, already did that one, and translations are easy.20:53
knomehow would you show the links?20:54
knomefull language names?20:54
knomelanguage codes?20:54
knomeon the start-start page, or a subpage for that?20:54
Unit1931. No idea.  2. If so, of course translated.  3. Could do, or flags. :P  4. Why subpage?20:55
knomenoooo flaaaaags20:56
Unit193OK, changed my script to add them if they are above 80% complete now.21:02
knomedid you have a ppa or something for that package?21:03
knomeeven the "something"?21:04
Unit193Thought something = repo, but I have it uploaded.  Recreating it now, just a sec (fresh translations.)21:04
brainwashknome: new secret user/group management tool? does that mean that we can ignore all the issues in gnome-system-tools?21:08
knomemeans we shouldn't worry about fixing them right now21:08
knomeand it's not really secret-secret, it's just not public yet either21:09
knomeit's written by someone in #xfce-dev, and i'm really interested to see it21:09
brainwashme too21:09
Unit193knome: For online use, I move desktop-guide/ to en_US/ :P21:18
knomei guess that's my only semi-problem21:21
knomeif we want to build all the translations with the same code, they will either each need to have the same includes (stupid) or link to the same relative path21:21
Unit193It's doing the second now.21:26
knomeyep, but can't do that with the branch in trunk21:30
Unit193You can't?21:31
Unit193I pushed some make changes didn't I?21:31
knomeoh, then it probably can ;)21:32
knomedid i merge them yet?21:32
Unit193Those were so the docs knew where the 'libs' where, but also made it so the languages share.21:32
Unit193Meh, wrong 'where'21:33
jjfrv8knome, pushed an MP with correction for the slideshow bug 1213933. Marked you as reviewer per your request.21:42
ubottubug 1213933 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "Slideshow recommends trying out environment which isn't present" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/121393321:42
jjfrv8this is just in case lderan doesn't come up with a more elegant solution21:42
lderangoing to look at it over the weekend :)21:43
knomei'm off from desktop for today, but i will probably pop back in with the laptop later22:25
knomejjfrv8, i'll look at that today or tomorrow, thanks22:25
knomehrm, either the xfce4 powerman patches aren't working correctly or there is something else wrong in my setup22:51
brainwashknome: what doesn't work?22:54
knomehmm, everything seems to work now22:54
knomeunless i can be sure it's related to the patch, i won't tell you :P22:54
knomenah, some weird locale stuff22:55
knomei always seem to have problems with locales, and that might have been the root cause for my other issue as well22:55
ochosiknome: sorry i missed the meeting, wasn't possible to be here22:56
ochosiwill read the backlog though22:56
knomethat happens22:56
ochosiand thanks for the xfce-logo22:56
knomeespecially when we're talking about you22:57
ochosii've already converted it22:57
ochosiand i'll push it later, together with the fixed ubuntu icon22:57
knomedidn't you want an svg22:57
ochosiyeah, you need to use a certain bg-color for symbolic icons22:57
ochosiso "converted" is probably a bit much for what i've done :p22:57
knomeif you had told me...22:57
knomeif you can wait 5mins, i'll put up the meeting minutes22:58
knome(if you can't, i'll postpone that)22:58
knomei'm also waiting for your reply :P23:01
brainwashdoes noskcaj avoid joining this channel lately? :D 23:03
knomeyou would have to ask him23:04
knomehaven't seen him around much lately anyway, so maybe he's just busy though23:04
brainwashI want him to sru his patched power manager package23:05
knomefwiw, there is no reason why you couldn't manage the SRU23:05
brainwashbecause the debian maintainer won't add the missing systemd patches soon-ish23:05
brainwashnot quite sure how to handle the debdiff/changelog stuff23:06
ochosiknome: i'll be around in a few minutes23:08
knomeokay, i'll set up the meeting minutes in a sec then23:08
brainwashso I'm waiting for him to tell me, if he is now in the mood to release the patched package + SRU23:09
knomebrainwash, that's a skill you can learn23:09
brainwashlearning by doing23:10
pleia2sorry for missing the meeting, still recovering from cold+jetlag schedule23:11
knomepleia2, that's also ok23:12
knomepleia2, you are more forgiven than simon is23:12
knomethe minutes are up for you who want to read them23:12
pleia2thanks :)23:13
brainwashI missed the first half, because my nick is not in the highlight list :(23:13
brainwashplease add it :D23:13
ochosiknome: thanks, will read them in a bit23:14
knomeupdated the monthly updates23:15
knomebrainwash, you are not in the team23:15
brainwashok, it's a team meeting after all23:16
ochosithanks for the minutes, went through them now23:17
knomewell, community meeting; the highlight is to have as many team members around as possible23:17
ochosii did lightdm-gtk-greeter theming, light-locker is pretty UI-less23:17
knomeochosi, you can add them to the team report23:17
knomepleia2, how well are you feeling?23:18
pleia2knome: well enough to do Work work23:18
knomeso do you have time for a PM then?23:18
knomeor we can do it here but that's just flooding the channel :P23:19
knomefyi, http://xubuntu.org/products/ is live23:27
ochosibrainwash: could you try whether renaming the lubuntu badge to lxde works?23:49
ochosipleia2, knome: if you got time to quickly talk a few things wrt wallpaper contest, lemme know23:52
knomei do23:52
Unit193I forgotted to add it earlier: http://goo.gl/2xntc323:55
knomehaha, still faster than any of us ;)23:55
Unit193Scripted. :P23:55
Unit193(Well, almost.)23:55
Unit193knome: That's because, if it's not on the calendar, it's not happening in my memory. :D23:56
knomei try to not get that depending on calendars23:57
knomebut lately i've noticed i have to put some things down23:57
ochosiknome: we could accept the last round of wallpapers then23:58

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