[00:00] double-click the desktop [00:00] nope [00:00] = napsauta työpöytää hiiren oikealla painikkeella [00:00] but en_US is different than en_GB [00:00] Trash Can vs Rubbish Bin [00:00] yes, but both have a shared language name: English [00:00] ok, another example, chinese [00:01] sure, but if the menu shows the selected language when opened, why show almost 100% the time redundant information? [00:03] to know what variant you have at a glance without opening the menu? [00:04] probably handy for translators [00:04] how many people use several variants of a single language? [00:04] ^ [00:04] so we are designing the default greeter for translators, not users? [00:04] * knome facepalms [00:05] what real benefit is there to not showing the locale? [00:05] less clutter [00:05] what real benefir is there to show the locale? [00:05] currently, we're showing an icon [00:06] ah [00:06] I have a good reason now [00:06] input method [00:06] shoot [00:06] is that tied to the locale+ [00:06] ? [00:06] dunno [00:07] i mean, can't you have a northern chinese input method even if you are using the finnish language? [00:07] sure you can. [00:07] changes the keyboard layout though [00:07] umm, [00:07] not sure if even that is true [00:07] or, [00:07] if it can't be unlinked [00:07] language is language [00:07] locale is locale [00:08] input method is input method [00:08] and yes, you guessed it, [00:08] keyboard layout is keyboard layout [00:08] they barely have nothing to do with each other [00:08] except that *usually*, you don't mix them (too much) [00:10] while I was working at the college, there were some international students with key locations swapped because of their locale [00:10] so they would bring it in and we wouldn't be able to type correctly [00:10] :) [00:10] i'm not saying locale can't affect the rest of the stuff [00:10] whether it should... that's debatable [00:10] in most cases, it makes sense [00:11] I'm just saying that it can be a usability visual cue [00:12] bluesabre, tell me (unrelated) [00:12] why does my power button just switch the pc off [00:13] when power button is pressed: nothing [00:13] in xfce4-power-manager [00:13] thats a known bug [00:13] and, how do i fix it [00:13] and I bet Unit193 can find it faster than me! [00:13] there's currently no fix I believe [00:14] any workaround? [00:14] that sucks. [00:14] unless there is one downstream in suse [00:14] Not likely, right? I'm bit busy. :P [00:14] i'm used to use that to open the logout menu [00:14] uuuuuniiiiiit [00:14] /etc/systemd/logind.conf [00:14] bbiab, dinner time [00:15] Unit193, and the workaround? :P [00:16] brb [00:18] ok, i fixed that [00:18] no [00:18] i didn't [00:18] well the button is ignored now [00:19] knome: i was away, but i really think the discussion is a bit ridiculous, given that we're talking about 2 vs. 4 chars [00:19] ochosi, we've had discussions about single pixels [00:20] anyhow, as bluesabre and me seem to be both ok with passing along whatever we get from lightdm, i think we'll go with that [00:20] my opinion will be smelly [00:20] :P [00:20] i also don't feel like doing string-operations on that and then maybe failing or showing misleading info [00:20] yeah, feel free to report a bug against lightdm ;) [00:21] and i have to admit i've become weary of single-pixel discussions [00:22] as long as you accept that you might be offering misleading information with showing everything as well. [00:22] no, i reject that in fact [00:22] then you can say that the menu is offering misleading choices [00:22] sure. [00:22] and if you do that, go complain to lightdm [00:23] it has nothing to do with the greeter [00:23] except if the menu overrides all settings [00:23] so it's simply an invalid bugreport [00:23] not sure what you're talking about now [00:23] nvm. [00:23] and even less so, how that is related to changing the flag to the code [00:23] fix my stupid power key. [00:24] use the stupid PPA with the fix [00:24] where the stupid PPA is [00:24] :P [00:24] :) [00:24] it's one of Noskcaj's [00:24] and has powermanager in its name i think [00:25] * knome sighs [00:26] brb [00:27] yay for Noskcaj [00:27] now meh [00:43] oh good, it resolved itself :) [00:43] me? [00:43] :P [00:44] alrighty, menulibre time [01:33] brainwash: so 1) and 2) are fixed [01:33] waiting for your patches :> [02:02] * Noskcaj heard knome was discussing en_AU. [02:02] :} [02:03] now if i can just find the old translation script [02:04] Noskcaj: for clarification: it was about the latest commit to the greeter, which shows the language code instead of the flag-icon now [02:04] I saw. It's a good thing to change [02:05] yup, greeter received lots of love in the last weeks [09:54] ochosi: oh, I planned to look at the new issues somewhat soon, but let me mention them here 1) when you enable larger fonts via menu, the menus are drawn partially offscreen 2) reverting to normal font size does not rescale the top panel and login box properly 3) the onboard window cannot be closed via its "X" button [10:38] brainwash: ok, waiting for those patches then :) [10:38] hey ochosi, [10:38] oy knome [10:38] have you planned to run moderation on ~xubuntu-art proposed members? [10:39] hmm, i can do that [10:39] so far i've always rejected all members and sent them an email asking them to introduce themselves [10:39] for your convenience: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Toolbox/Messages [10:40] no-one ever repliked [10:40] but, if you have another template, you could add it there as well [10:40] replied [10:40] yeah, i'm not surprised ;) [10:41] mkay, will take a look at how many are pending atm [10:41] just asked because one recently popped up [10:41] btw, if you wanna test the greeter language menu (and get angry at it again ;)), you can use the greeter's daily ppa, i pushed it yesterday night [10:41] your way is probably better than the short, general message [10:41] i probably should, and look if i can get what i want with changing LC_IDENTIFICATION [10:42] though i guess not [10:42] up to you [10:42] but don't complain after 14.04 is released ;) [10:43] well, if the "default" locale for a language is two-letter, i don't personally have a problem [10:45] ok, then i guess it's fine [10:45] ok, only one pending member, sent msg [11:13] morning all [11:20] bluesabre: you around? [11:21] hey slickymaster: just got here [11:21] bluesabre: dou you have a minute or two to talk about mugshot docs? [11:23] sure, works for me [11:24] tbh, I haven't really thought much about it. Mugshot already has some mallard documentation in its repository, so you might able to use that as a starting point [11:25] well, My first question would be exactly that [11:25] is the documentation intended to be made on mallard, dockbook,...? [11:26] I think I might do what xfce does and use dokuwiki (since I've already been getting familiar with it) [11:28] to me that would be great, since I've never worked with Mallard and I have no problems with dokuwiki [11:28] yeah, i think dokuwiki is a great choice [11:28] nicer learning curve imo :) [11:28] and to the worst you can use html for offline docs [11:28] if knome won't object to it, I' would bo for dokuwiki [11:28] heh [11:28] exactly ochosi [11:28] its my project, what's he going to say about it :P [11:29] * bluesabre hides [11:29] yeah, we'll showing who's the boss [11:29] * slickymaster also hides [11:30] bluesabre: can you provide me the mugshot repository link, so I can take a look at the already existing docs? [11:31] slickymaster: https://code.launchpad.net/~mugshot-dev/mugshot/trunk [11:31] you'll find the docs under ./help/C [11:31] oh, it's in LP [11:32] good [11:32] btw bluesabre, you mentioned here, the other day, something about the help button. Were you referring to big 1229205 [11:33] bug 1229205 ^^ [11:33] bug 1229205 in Mugshot "Help button results in Document not found" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229205 [11:34] slickymaster: I was originally going to remove that button, but since you'll be updating the docs, I'll update that button to open the online docs [11:35] bluesabre: will you set up everything at http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php for the mugshot docs, or do you want me to? [11:36] slickymaster: if you're able to, please do [11:37] I think I made you an admin, so you have free reign [11:37] do I have permissions to set up a new namespace? [11:37] I think so [11:37] ok [11:37] that's all I think [11:37] thanks [11:39] I made you an admin, you might have to log out/in [11:39] bluesabre, slickymaster: as i've said, i don't mind how the upstream docs are written... but we'll want some portions of it in docbook for the xubuntu docs [11:39] right [11:40] but thats a different project altogether :) [11:40] yep [11:40] btw HI knome! [11:40] knome: can't it be ported afterwards? [11:40] but just that you both acknowledge that we need that as well [11:40] slickymaster, most definitely [11:40] hello bluesabre ;) [11:41] and a good morning knome [11:41] even though it's almost lunch time :P [11:41] morning slickymaster [11:41] yeah, it's definitely lunch time [11:41] i was just thinking what i'd eat [11:41] we haven't got much in the fridge, so i might not have many options [12:19] bbl -> [13:38] ochosi: can you fix the greeter menu text shadows too please? [13:38] git/master [13:39] hi brainwash [13:39] yeah yeah, i said i'll do that when i'm done with the greeter [13:39] and you too :) [13:39] hey elfy [13:39] hi elfy [13:39] i'm already practically done with the session-menu, but i wanna support as many sessions as possible [13:41] how many does unity-greeter support? [13:41] not so many [13:41] doesn't it simply display the session .desktop icon? [13:41] no [13:41] unity-greeter has a weird custom system [13:42] i implemented a more standard-compliant version [13:42] they use pngs, i use symbolic svgs [13:42] they use /usr/share/unity-greeter/*_badge.png, i use /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/places [13:42] but how do you determine which icon to use? [13:43] so actually ppl can add support for their session by adding icons to their icon-theme [13:43] gtk_image_set_from_icon_name (GTK_IMAGE(session_badge), g_strdup_printf ("%s_badge-symbolic", current_session), [13:43] fallback is the gear-icon [13:44] mmh, ok [13:44] anyway, i might push things as they are now and i can add support for more sessions later easily [13:45] what about the mixed session like Gnome/openbox? [13:45] depending on what session-string they set, they get an icon (or fallback if there's no match) [13:46] so it's not the greeter's responsibility in fact, but the session's [13:46] ok [14:02] brainwash: how many sessions do you have installed now? [14:05] zequence: ping [14:06] ochosi: most [14:06] ok, then i'm looking forward to you testing the session-menu :) [14:07] hello everybory [14:07] I'll add MATE too, should be available via ubuntu's repo now [14:08] ochosi, elementary-xfce is still based on elementary? [14:08] brainwash: don't have a mate-badge yet [14:08] ochosi, how does one test the greeter then [14:08] knome: add the lightdm-gtk-greeter daily PPA [14:09] sergio-br2: well yes, kinda. i manually merge stuff from upstream, if it doesn't mess with the consistency. but there is no real automatic sync anymore [14:09] so changes are already merged? [14:09] brainwash: not yet [14:09] i need a few more minutes [14:09] ochosi, so i can use icons from there? [14:09] and then i need to manually trigger a rebuild of the PPA, so don't expect anything before 1hr or so from now [14:09] alright [14:09] sergio-br2: you can, as long as you provide a consistent look across all sizes [14:10] the new square terminal icon looks stupid in deskbar mode, forgot to mention this before [14:11] a terminal is not meant to be square [14:12] ochosi: do you like the new terminal icon? [14:12] are there other icon theme similar to elementary-xfce? [14:13] sergio-br2: there are others based on elementary, like ubuntu's humanity, but to be frank, it's quite unmaintained for a long time. so there's nothing worth mentioning that i know of [14:13] brainwash: i just fixed it, personally i don't care so much about every li [14:14] li'l icon [14:14] i merge icons from elementary upstream that are consistent [14:14] and i don't mind square icons [14:15] ochosi, could you see later if my pull is right? just a feedback [14:15] ochosi: I don't suggest changing it, so I'll just revert it locally [14:16] sergio-br2: yeah, it looks ok technically, still gotta review the icons [14:17] ok [14:18] sergio-br2: don't have much time now, so i just looked at calculator and that looks fine! [14:18] i tried to align somethings to pixel unity, so it fit better when is converted to png [14:18] yeah, you always have to align everything to the grid [14:18] otherwise -> fuzzy mess [14:20] are any plan to use 256 pixel icons? [14:20] we can add them, but they're not used in xfce anywhere [14:20] i've been maintaining that icon theme pretty much alone for a long time now [14:21] ochosi: pong [14:21] and i don't have so much time for it with all the other things i'm working on [14:21] elementary-xfce? [14:21] yes [14:21] zequence: what greeter does ubuntu-studio use? unity or lightdm-gtk? [14:21] lightdm-gtk [14:21] zequence: and do you install a session-badge for unity-greeter? [14:22] ochosi: What's that? [14:22] zequence: ok, i guess not then :} [14:22] it's a white png of the studio-logo [14:22] ah [14:22] goes into /usr/share/unity-greeter/ [14:22] hmm, no I don't think we have added that yet [14:23] thing is that i've added support for session-badges in the lightdm-gtk-greeter just now (about to merge it) [14:23] and i added a badge for you guys as well, but i need to know the name of your session [14:23] the unity-badge would've been one way of easily finding that out [14:23] it's "ubuntustudio" [14:24] oh, cool, you know it [14:24] these are the badges i've added so far: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-01162014-032426pm.php [14:25] Looks good :) [14:25] in case it's not clear what i'm talking about: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-01162014-013359pm.php [14:26] Ok, so the session is chosen from the top bar [14:26] yup [14:27] that was also the case before [14:27] so that's not a new change or anything [14:27] before it just showed a generic gear-icon [14:27] (and still does, if you use gtk2 or a session that has no badge) [14:38] ochosi: did you ever want to make a theme where the active/inactive borders are a different size? [14:38] because i am going to make that possible [14:42] actually, forget that idea, it would mean patching half the source files [14:42] however, you can have different sized corners :) [14:45] ali1234: sounded interesting :) [14:45] i guess it's not possible until xfwm4 is gtk3, but support for the dark_theme setting could also be nice [14:45] i dunno what that means [14:46] apps can ask gtk3 for a dark theme variant [14:46] so the whole UI of e.g. video-players, image-viewers goes dark [14:46] hmm [14:46] not exactly a prime example of UI consistency ;) [14:46] has caused some flamewars, but i can still see the point to some extent [14:47] (greybird doesn't feature a dark variant on purpose not to have that weird bright window-border in xfce) [14:48] that makes sense :) [14:48] should be everything or nothing :) [14:49] says the guy who made darktable use a custom dark gtkrc file? :D [15:13] ok, so the session-menu has been pushed and a PPA rebuild is queued [15:20] ochosi: touche [15:20] ochosi: we actually tried to hint the gnome3 wm with the gtk3 dark reques thint, but it didn't work :) [15:20] ochosi: and more importantly, darktable is meant to be used fullscreen anyhow :D [15:20] [15:25] pmjdebruijn: i'm surprised it didn't work with mutter, usually it should work fine with dark themes... [15:31] the hint is only easy to set with gtk3 [15:31] we briefly tried to kludge it with gtk2, but we didn't bother investing too much time [15:31] ah right, darktable is still gtk2 :/ [15:31] indeed [15:31] we're porting slowly [15:32] latest release has all the gtk3 changes that don't break gtk2 [15:32] now we're working on the gtk2 breaking changes for the next major release :) [15:33] hehe [15:33] sounds nice [15:34] isn't porting just a lot of fun... [15:34] yeah, we're lucky to have a contributor do it for us :) [15:34] but contributing a gtk2/gtk3 port sortof makes him a core dev :) [15:37] indeed [15:40] ali1234: i forgot to paste that before, here's an example of an app using the gtk3 dark style: http://www.deviantart.com/art/gthumb-never-looked-sexier-426981212 [15:55] brainwash: greeter should be built and greybird has been fixed [15:55] i guess i'll modify the greeter theme more heavily before the release, but this should be ok for testing now [15:56] ok, I'll test it later today [15:56] i'd be interested in which badges work :} [16:36] ochosi, is the xfce session badge supposed to work with whatever version is in PPA now? [16:42] pardon for interrupting, but as one who admins a small subnet of laptops with Pentium M processors, how complicated is it to include the code that fakes the PAE reporting for the new kernels? [16:43] upgrades have become a huge time sink...:-( [16:46] include the code where? [16:46] in the install program [16:47] won't do that for the main xubuntu images, but it should be pretty trivial to add that to a remastered image [16:48] I get that...there is still an awful lot of older hardware out there though...and not all are capable [16:48] yes, and since people usually only need to install one system.. it's barely a problem [16:49] there are images prebuilt for lubuntu with fake-pae [16:50] Unit193, tell us how hard it would be to modify any existing ISO and patch it with fake-pae [16:50] Unit193, with a script, that is [16:50] ! musta missed that...BBL [16:50] le_prof: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [16:53] knome: no, it uses the fallback until you send me the badge and i svg it [16:53] :P [16:53] ok [16:53] i'm pretty sure i have it as svg [16:54] ok, then send it to me in 16px [16:54] bbl [16:54] yes yes, when i'm on my desktop :P [17:12] ochosi: so all the standalone wm session entries fall back to cog icon, like expected [17:13] lubuntu does not show its icon [17:13] the ubuntu icon is to grey-ish [17:13] too [17:32] brainwash: ok, so lubuntu has a different session name then. and the ubuntu icon needs some fixes. feel free to add icons for standalone sessions in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/places [17:35] you really want to add icons for the basic wm only sessions? [17:37] icons for cinnamon and so on would be nice [17:37] the popular/major desktop environemts [17:40] I'm not sure how to reproduce it, but I was always able to move the top panel twice already [17:49] brainwash: do you remember what the bug was that caused this? http://imagebin.org/287051 [17:49] yay got live image working - now to track down all the myriad dupes [17:50] elfy: xfdesktop --reload fixed this, right? [17:51] no - didn't know what it was - just really checking that the iso loaded now [17:52] closed it again now - but I'll look later to see if it does [17:52] so try to reload it [17:52] not now - just got in [17:52] :D [17:52] bbl [17:53] the daily iso already ships xfdesktop4 4.11.2 [17:54] let me find my own bug report [17:55] elfy: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10605 [17:55] bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10605 in General "Desktop icons/labels are not properly themed after login" [Normal,New] [17:56] eric_the_idiot: ^ [17:57] got a possible fix which I could test? [18:04] ochosi, ygm [18:04] brainwash: yea - that's it - is there a LP one for it? [18:16] elfy: no, haven't seen one yet [18:17] ok - well I'll do one at some point then if it's necessary - particularly prior to us testing A2 next week - easier if there is one there - cuts down on dupes sometimes [18:17] add it to the know issues list [18:17] known [18:18] well you'd best do that then - I've not seen any known issue list [18:18] you seem to know about one :) [18:19] didn't the A1 announcement page have one? [18:19] that would have done yes [18:19] thought you meant a sensible list that everyone knew about [18:20] so A2 will still lack most of the new stuff? [18:21] who knows [18:21] I don't [18:21] including possible panel layout changes and gtk3 indicators [18:21] :/ [18:23] well - not completely sure when the image gets frozen other than soon [18:23] but I would have to assume at this point - the answer to that is a no [18:25] the next milestone will be the end of February [18:25] so - I'd have to hope we get all these things in by then at least [18:26] brainwash, things will move forward faster if more people are helping [18:33] more people with merge/upload permissions are needed :/ [18:33] yes, but more people can help get stuff into sponsorship queues, create patches/diffs etc to improve the situation even without new uploaders [18:33] whining doesn't, unfortunately, help [18:34] otherwise we would have gotten a lot more things done in the past and during this cycle [18:36] perhaps people knowing about that stuff can pass on the information to those who don't for the things that they could do [18:36] sponsorship queues etc [18:36] back at 7 [18:36] sure... but won't do it unless asked, because it's a waste of time to tell people who are unwilling to help [18:41] of course [18:50] knome: I mean it's currently not that easy to test the daily iso and contribute with patches/fixes [18:51] if the tester is required to use all the PPAs [18:51] i understand [18:52] :) [19:04] brainwash: that said - people testing the daily iso are testing it - warts and all [19:04] those wanting to test with the ppa's know - they got told [19:08] so i just finished implementing support for gtk 3.10 header bar apps in xfwm [19:08] so... [19:08] we should have a meeting :P [19:08] it's ready for testing if yer brave [19:08] who's here? [19:08] o/ [19:08] o/ obviously [19:09]