=== emma_ is now known as em === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [07:04] morning al [07:07] morn [07:13] meh [07:18] the bbc news site seems to have turned into yewtree/missing children and actor deaths [07:19] they must have a new policy about reporting all miising children [07:20] which news site are you looking at, I can't see any of those [07:20] news.bbc.co.uk lately has been nothing much else [07:21] ah we are looking at the same site [07:22] I can't even figure out where I would have configured it to show different things [07:22] the other day the entire top 10 list was dlt/roach/rolf and then some kids that went missing and were found, [07:23] lsat year they decided to report on every stabbing that happened [07:24] I don't see a single yewtree newspiece there now and the first death is "A Japanese soldier who refused to surrender after World War II ended and spent 29 years in the jungle dies aged 91 in Tokyo. " [07:24] i would read that, cant see it [07:24] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25772192 [07:25] seems like yiu get less uk centric stuff (with good reason) [07:29] hey everyone [07:33] morning knightwise [07:55] morning [07:55] \o [07:55] It's Friday! [08:04] morning everyone [08:08] For electronics people: a tour of a TV transmitter station: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR_wJkxKSXU [08:13] * popey clicks watch later [08:21] good morning, boys and girls. [08:21] morning brobostigon [08:21] morning MooDoo [08:22] workfare/mwa day two, here we come, [08:24] brobostigon: what's that? [08:25] MooDoo: its a scheme created by our current conservative government by which, people on jsa do various unsuitable pointless jobs, 20 hours a week plus, and no pay. [08:26] ouch [08:27] exactly, its only 4 weeks, but it four weeks of my wasted time, by which i could be doing better more constructive things. [08:28] and 4 weeks os wasted tax money, which could have been spent on more useful things, also. [08:33] brobostigon: what jobs have you been conscripted to do? [08:34] popey: i spent the whole of yesterday, in a shop, tagging clothes. [08:35] Is this compulsory to enable you to claim whatever benefits you get? [08:35] yes, and yes jsa. [08:35] Morning all [08:36] brobostigon: so how to all the other people that claim who don't work get away with it? [08:38] praise be to the local bacon establishment for curing my self inflicted ills [08:38] \o/ bacon [08:38] MooDoo: if you read the legislation surrounding it, it is a decision down to the individual jc advisor who can force someone to do this, if in their opinion, you as the jobseeker arent complying with their expectations. [08:38] expectations being looking for and applying for jobs? [08:39] http://gailsimone.tumblr.com/image/73535804151 barbara gordon and I are in the same boat right now [08:40] bacon!!! http://www.xda-developers.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/jonobacon4-681x1024.jpg [08:41] popey: and doing atleast 8 job searches a week, applying for atleast 4 jobs a week, 1 spec letter, and using ujm, attending the jc once a week, more. [08:41] ooops wrong kind :S [08:41] golly [08:41] MooDoo: if I wasn't sick enough already... [08:41] SuperMatt: lol [08:41] so you applied for like 200 jobs in a year!? [08:41] do you get many interviews? [08:41] popey: thats what they consider as a base point, yes. [08:41] right [08:42] popey: last one was 2 years ago. [08:42] brobostigon: where you live again? [08:42] 400 jobs applied for and no interviews!? [08:42] MooDoo: north oxfordshire. [08:42] ah ok [08:43] thats a terrible hit rate. do they give feedback as to why you didn't get an interview? (I guess most don't, but just chuck cv in the bin without telling you) [08:43] there is this if you want a quick read brobostigon http://www.heartinternet.co.uk/careers [08:44] popey: various things, but mainly my huge work gaps, [08:44] MooDoo: ty. [08:44] I've seen some people get success via contributing to floss [08:45] that makes no sense. you're not getting jobs because you have a large work gap, and your work gap just keeps getting bigger because you're not getting any jobs [08:46] my cv is filled with those kinds of those kinds things, loads of floss related activities. [08:46] SuperMatt: exactly. [08:46] tbh, I think it's hr departments that stand in the way [08:48] ok, [08:49] brobostigon: welcome [08:49] brobostigon: i was thinking more of one block of work to one prominent project [08:49] hr departments I've been in contact with seem to have no understanding of techie jobs, and have glossed over amazing cvs because the words they used weren't exactly the same words used in the job spec [08:49] worked for me, anyway [08:50] ah. i see. [08:51] and the centos guys.. getting hired/bought by red hat [08:51] good example. [09:15] Good morning peeps :) [09:16] pip pip [09:16] Hip hop [09:17] What's happening? [09:20] * brobostigon sticks up his middle finger at iain duncan smith on the tv. [09:22] hah [09:23] brobostigon: what's wrong with him? [09:23] I like his 1st name [09:23] MartijnVdS: he is an ass. [09:24] yeah it's a good name [09:24] just the right number of is [09:24] I quite agree :) [09:24] brobostigon: ah wait, I'm confusing him with Duncan Jones, movie director & David Bowie's son [09:24] MartijnVdS: yes, he is something entirly different. [09:25] Why isn't it Wednesday yet? [09:26] bigcalm: it's still recovering from the last time [09:26] brobostigon: jones, smith.. it's all the same 8-) [09:26] That said, I am somewhat surprised that it's Friday [09:26] MartijnVdS: hmmm, [09:30] any of you guys have any experience with openvpn ? [09:31] * brobostigon points knightwise in MartijnVdS's direction. [09:31] knightwise: what do you want to knwo? [09:31] MartijnVdS: Yousa Hava Somma Info ? [09:31] I want to know if I can setup an openvpn to my home router [09:31] even if my isp blocks all ports below 1024 [09:32] knightwise: I've documented what I did on blog.vandestreek.net [09:32] knightwise: that should be a good basic setup, if you want to know more, just ask :) [09:32] i have a openvpn server on my router [09:33] the thing i'm not sure of is : what ports does open vpn REALY need [09:33] just the one, 1194 or something? [09:33] because I can"t open up any ports below 1024 [09:33] but you can even configure that [09:33] just the one ? You sure ? [09:33] yeah [09:33] ok, then i"ll be ok [09:33] and you can set that one port to be any port you like [09:33] if you don't like defaults for any reason ;) [09:34] ok ;:) 'ill give it a try .. thanx :) [09:37] Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy (Don't) Ditch New Year's Resolutions Day! :-D [09:37] happy friday [09:38] I don't do new years resolutions, so I have nothing to ditch [09:40] SuperMatt++ [09:46] I use 4 workspaces in Unity. Is it possible to have programs load into selected workspaces upon logging in? [09:48] bigcalm, the last time I tried to do that you needed to use something like devilspie to make it happen [09:49] that was years ago, mind, but I suspect the basic philosophy hasn't changed. Whether devilspie still exists is another question , and it was a pretty viciously technical tool :) [09:49] the design team thinks multiple desktops should be abolished, or so it seems [09:49] I hate HMRC. That is all. [09:49] so it's probably still devilspie [09:50] bigcalm: xfwm was capable of remembering them at one point, or rather the sessions [09:51] I've been wanting something like that myself for Unity for ages [09:51] MartijnVdS, they nonetheless continue to exist. That seems a perfect example to me of something which the design team have decided based on evidence is more confusing than useful to a user, but can lie in wait for them to discover at a later date if hey ever need them. [09:51] I personally hate virtual desktops and never use them, but I wouldn't claim that I'm the average user ::P) [09:51] virtual desktops were my main draw to Linux on Desktop 10 years ago [09:53] I loved them on my netbook [09:55] I think virtual desktops are now switched off by default in Unity [09:57] Thanks guys [09:58] I'll stick to clicking a load of buttons when I login [09:58] I have 3 monitors and still use 4 virtual desktops - I guess I'm not the average user either [09:58] just don't log out ever ;) [10:00] Has anybody got a Chromecast dongle? I'm thinking about getting one when they're released if I'd be able to stream audio/video from a samba share via wifi, just wondered if anybody had tried that [10:02] DJones: I have a similar device. I use MediaTomb (server) and MediaHouse-Pro (android) to stream stuff [10:02] I wish this http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/367395-weekend-project-record-from-skype-calls-and-other-apps-on-linux has a bit better explanations [10:03] Turns out that my blu-ray player has automatically hooked into my MediaTomb server, so I don't actually use the Android dongle any more :| [10:03] DJones: samba share probably won't work [10:04] Morning all [10:04] Myrtti: I use this for recording all of my Skype calls: http://atdot.ch/scr/ [10:04] Morning davmor2 [10:05] bigcalm: I'm trying to get the audio of Google Hangouts [10:06] Ah, pass :) [10:06] bigcalm: I've got an old desktop that I normally use as the receiver connected via cables, was just wondering if there was anything better out there that would connect via hdmi to let me get rid of the old desktop [10:07] Maybe need to look at the roku [10:08] DJones: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00B18K4T2/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B009YPQ7PO/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 [10:08] Myrtti, that's hard. We do it for Bad Voltage. Jono has worked out how to do it now, but for a while we had an ipad signed into the hangout as a different user and ran a cable from its output to the mixing desk. You might want to talk to Jono about how he does it now :) [10:10] bigcalm: Interesting I'll have to spend a bit of time looking around [10:24] popey: I can barely believe that guy on G+... Seems equivilent to commenting "BOOOORING!!!" on everything you don't care about. [10:25] yeah [10:32] Myrtti: this might help if you bastardise it a bit http://askubuntu.com/questions/171287/how-to-pass-record-audio-output-as-an-input-device [10:32] old habits die exceptionally hard [10:32] I'm really struggling to resist the temptation to keep my inbox in order [10:33] there's absolutely not need for me to do it, but here I am, dragging emails into their relevant folders [10:34] davmor2: thanks. I don't know if the HMRC would particularly like me recording my phonecall with them - I'm lucky I didn't record the previous phonecall, it wasn't graceful. [10:34] reading their website makes me want to throw things [10:35] Myrtti: don't forget if you decide to record people you have to inform them that is what you are doing especially on phone calls. [10:35] yes I know [10:36] for now I'm cooling off because I've been told by the same person to read the website three times in 30 seconds [10:36] which made me kindly thank them for their time and not wait for their answer for it [10:37] Seeker`: ^ [10:37] Myrtti: did you read website /me ducks for cover [10:37] :/ [10:37] call back, you'll get a different person [10:37] might be more helpful [10:38] did you know that their material has taxation flowcharts [10:38] or rather, flowcharts so you can determine where you are domiciled [10:39] tax remittance, double taxation relief, *BOOM* [10:40] Myrtti: go away, have a cup of tea/coffee take a deep breath come back, make sure you read everything make some notes on your issues that you are having, explain you read the website and you still have this issue is there someone who can help you understand it. [10:41] Myrtti: I found hmrc to be one of the better government agencies for helping you when your were stuck, I feel sorry that you seem to have the opposite experience. [10:42] Hello Ubutnu UK. I read this: http://www.jonobacon.org/2014/01/17/growing-an-active-ubuntu-advocacy-community/ and i would like to get involved in UK adocacy. Am I in the right place? [10:43] advocacy even [10:43] AlanBell: ^ a comrade in arms for you :) [10:43] how does one get invloved in Ubuntu UK? Where are the meetings? [10:43] treb0r: possibly I don't know who is organising such things AlanBell might [10:44] ok, ta. [10:48] hello treb0r [10:49] * popey recognises that nickname from the past [10:49] popey: was it on the side of a pack of mints? [10:49] :þ [10:50] Heh [10:52] hello popey ;-) [10:54] I'm back into Ubuntu again after a long break [10:54] looking to get involved if possible [10:55] Even using it on the server now. Impressed! [10:56] I see that popey is now an official canonical dude. nice one! [10:58] heh [10:59] treb0r: you weren't joking about it being a while :) [11:00] indeed. i think it was like 2006-7 or summat [11:03] i was the first person to join http://launchpad.net/~not-canonical and the first to leave [11:03] * bigcalm shakes fist at Rackspace and their lack of internal communication [11:04] SuperMatt: you realise that all future Rackspace venting will be directed your way :P [11:05] popey: I read your article about DO the other day and have been giving them a go. Pretty amazing for the price I'd say. [11:05] yeah, really quick to spin up droplets [11:05] bigcalm: dang it! Nooooooo! [11:05] :P [11:06] I do WordPress sites for alivivng. Now considering a 1 client: 1 VM approach to hosting. [11:06] living even [11:06] sounds sane, except for the overhead of machine maintenance [11:06] treb0r: consider lxc [11:06] but you can automate some of that [11:07] indeed. Playing with puppet as we speak [11:07] SuperMatt: I've been reading about lxc actually. [11:07] with lxc you can have one big server, and then have multiple containers, each with their own apache, mysql, etc [11:08] and then you use nginx as a reverse proxy if you're only allowed one ip address [11:08] I'm attracted to tradional VMs as it makes it simple for me to set my clients free if they want to handle thier own hosting in the future.. [11:09] nicely self contained [11:09] how on earth is my code folder 1.4G? [11:10] popey: I was thinking that it's a shame that there isn't an entry level pricing structure for Landscape. it would make sense to offer it more cheaply for small VMs methinks. [11:10] i dont know about the pricing for landscape [11:10] it's pricey [11:11] But i understand why ;-) [11:11] not complaining, just thinking outloud [11:11] heh [11:12] treb0r: if you use lxc, each instance will be self contained, so setting people free is just as easy with traditional vms [11:13] SuperMatt: Using DO as an example, I can create an image from a VM, my client cna set up their own DO account, and then the DO admins will spin up a new VM based on the image. How would that work with lxc? [11:13] ah, it wouldn't [11:13] maybe your way is better [11:14] I'm not completely decided on what to do yet, but DO does make this approach at least doable. [11:22] What was this article on DO? [11:22] * diplo is interested [11:22] :) [11:23] hey guys, remember that I mentioned that my wifi speeds on my lenovo box have been realy crappy lately ? === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [11:23] I was wondering if it would have something to do with the wifi firmware or driver [11:25] knightwise: did you figure out which driver you're using? [11:25] i'm at the machine right now , how can I find this out ? [11:27] diplo: sorry, twas a twet not an article. I misremembered it ;-0 [11:27] tweet even [11:28] knightwise: lspci? lsusb? [11:29] treb0r: ta, looking at his tweets now [11:29] Intel Corporation Centrino Wireless-N 2230 (rev c4) [11:30] Ah, Digital Ocean you mean by DO ? [11:31] indeed [11:32] knightwise: that's an iwlwifi card, can you check /sys/module/iwlwifi/parameters/11n_disable ? [11:32] knightwise: just cat it [11:32] I'm debating getting another VPS, using a linode one for work but pricing looks good on there [11:32] I heard negative reports last year but seems that they are better now. Using gandi currently but thinking about trying out Do for client hosting.. [11:32] it says 0 [11:32] Linode is great, but more expensive [11:34] Use Gandi for domain hosting now, and the linode vps I'm testing with seems good/quick but no real load on it yet [11:35] Gandi seem great too.Been using them for two years now without issue [11:39] \o/ DPD guy is 15 mins away [11:39] love dpd [11:41] MartijnVdS: does this info give you any clue ? [11:41] I was surprised to see lots of good reviews for CityLink online. They're always terrible for me. === YaManicKill_ is now known as YaManicKill [11:51] MartijnVdS: should the setting be set to 1 ? because I also have an N network but the laptop only sees the G one === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [12:25] Hello guys [12:25] I'm back [12:32] knightwise: then it should see your "N" network, if it's "0" [12:32] knightwise: I have no idea what is going on in that case.. do you have any weird (Non-default) software running? [12:32] knightwise: is the problem also there using the live cd? [12:32] hello gone_ [12:33] MartijnVdS: I"ll give that a try (the live CD) [12:33] no non-default things running that I know of [12:34] the twist should support N [12:35] gonna try the live cd in a jiffy === alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch [12:45] i'm listening to a report about "the most beard-friendly pub in the UK" [12:45] that must be quite a place [12:46] sounds manly [12:46] What makes a pub non-beard friendly [12:46] enforced shaving at the door [12:46] Is it just refusal of entry? Or forced shaving? [12:46] Ah, beat me :-P [12:50] * popey looks for somewhere to put his newly laminated vim cheat sheet [12:56] which source did you use popey ? [13:01] http://vimcheatsheet.com/ [13:01] you could laminate your bitcoins [13:01] i have a 50,000 italian lira note laminated as a bookmark [13:02] after i found it in a drawer too long after the euro thing [13:02] ~ £25 [13:03] foobarry: you're Latin1ing at us ;) [13:03] i am? [13:03] ooh, i like the idea of laminating old money [13:03] I have a load of old unusable money [13:03] i laminated some russian roubles too [13:04] $10 for the vim cheat sheet?!"??!? [13:07] foobarry: This one is zero-cost. Doesn't look as good though. http://www.viemu.com/vi-vim-cheat-sheet.gif [13:08] the link popey sent also has a free png [13:08] i see gif, i think animated... [13:08] that one is fugly though [13:09] i was too lazy to back to my desk to get my cordial, no i have to juggle between pint glass and cup to mix the cordial after the water has been added first :S [13:09] popey: Yeah, I know. [13:11] foobarry: The PNG is low quality, but enough to get an idea of the layout. It looks a lot better than the one I linked to which was kinda my point. Design costs. [13:15] we had a team coffee morning today. can't believe how high the sugar & cakes:person ratio was [13:18] * TwistedLucidity is jealous of foobarry [13:18] there are still spares [13:19] muffins, brownies, pastries [13:24] i have the png at a4 and its hard to read some of the text [13:24] ← old eyes [13:25] you need one of those magnifiers that old people magazines advertise [13:26] for reading knitting patterns [13:26] or glasses [13:27] need an eye test [13:27] * popey books one [13:27] free in tescos [13:28] or free to realtives of glaucoma suffers once turning 40 [13:28] * foobarry never had one , maybe at school, i don't remember [13:34] I started getting myopia when I was 17 but I have an exercise regime that keeps it at bay [13:35] Was revising with books a lot, noticed it was worse when I'd been hitting the books hard [13:35] awilkins: weird! :) [13:35] Some time spent focussing on distant objects helps, as does lots of changes of focus from near to far [13:35] Also, preventative measure +1D reading glasses [13:36] revising and masturbation are proportional among teenagers [13:36] Renders the focal length of my screen at infinity, simulating the beneficial effects of a nice walk in the country [13:36] Apart from the lack of fresh air and exercise, of course [13:37] i wonder if tablets and kindles have changed how kids revise now [13:38] holy poop $10 for a vim cheatsheet [13:39] My technique for revision was terrible anyway [13:40] I'd probably use one of those card things that has a psychometric model that knows the best intervals for you to learn at [13:40] Just making the card deck for it would probably help a lot [13:40] http://www.zimbio.com/quiz/Ukldm8Pi5Ub/Star+Wars+Character [13:40] I got R2D2 [13:40] I was trying for Obi Wan [13:40] got han solo. something wrong there [13:41] Scoundrel. [13:43] hm, it looks like I can invite Google Hangouts-users to a telephone calle. === alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g [13:43] -e [13:46] how the hell did I get yoda [13:46] think you need to rephrase that [13:46] sorry. Hmmm yoda I got, how happening is this [13:47] they need to show their workings [13:49] \o/ I'm The Emperor [13:49] Oh hang on, that's bad. [13:50] and what new clothes have you? [13:50] Obi-wan \o/ [13:50] most of you lot die in the films [13:50] i just get frozen [13:51] I'm the secret ruler of the universe, always intervening at the precise moment to make a critical difference, and laughing in binary because you all just think I'm a blue dustbin on wheels. [13:51] i have lightning weapon, best weapon [13:52] nothing to drop/lose [13:52] just hands [13:52] i outrun old man emperor [13:52] I had C3PO's memory wiped because he was getting to close to the TRUTH, I tell you. [13:52] hands that do dishes can feel soft as your face [13:52] mild green fairy liquid [13:52] foobarry: I choose to leave [13:53] "Your faith in your inferior dishwashing solutions is your weakness. With every passing moment, you make yourself more my dishwashing slave." [13:54] I can't use green fairy liquid :-< [13:54] Myrtti: why ever not? :O [13:55] Mmmmmhmmm, no better colour than green, there is! " [13:55] arms and hands get itchy [13:55] My mum has the same [13:55] other colours are fine, and usually other makes of green dishwashing liquids [14:05] is there any way to see if a mac mini is intel or powerpc without truning it on? [14:05] ...ah a small sticker i see intel core duo [14:05] should be a label you can lookup some numbers off [14:05] ah-har [14:06] * foobarry ponders debian or ubuntu for a mini to run a display screen [14:27] foobarry: wow that is some heavy duty screen if you need an entire mini to power it [14:28] need more petrol [14:32] foobarry: Petril? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzzOw2tmb3A [14:33] Afternoon [14:33] BBCClick tweeting about Ubuntu touch and linking to OMGUbuntu site [14:33] :) [14:33] \o daubster [14:33] BBCClick [14:33] New Video Shows Multi-Tasking Improvements Coming to Ubuntu Touch http://bbc.in/1ddHwyR - nice! [14:33] bb cc lick? [14:33] :) [14:33] it's a little tech show [14:35] the multi task thing looks unwiedly in teh rain [14:35] when u don't wanna miss [14:35] too fiddly [14:42] this is what IBM firmware updates look like on a server. nothing like professional http://i.imgur.com/a88crLr.png [14:45] terminal fail [14:48] thats the special bootable usb image they make you use [14:48] no such thing as using web interface for updates with Ibummers [14:50] foobarry: when did they become and apple subsidiary ? [14:51] iBM? [14:52] Infernal Blue Machines [14:52] i want to kill whoever entered the original agreement with ibm [14:52] meaning we need to continue buying them [14:52] i waste a whole day just updating firmware, which is necessary because they break stuff severly always [14:53] "fixed power off issue with false voltage error" [14:54] I wonder what the Finnish Society advisor thinks when I reply to her email good five years later... ahem. [14:54] has it really been six years since LRL2008 [14:54] imagine that [14:54] foobarry: i think that update needs more dots :D [14:54] reminds me of DOOM2 extracting the WAD files [14:55] the update thing is a linux iso [14:55] it must scare off any windows users from ever touching linux because of the massively verbose erros at bootup [14:55] =] [14:55] they must think "THIS is linux? no way" [15:00] I think that every time I boot Linux. [15:01] At least with some distributions, you get a fairly nice list of [ OK ] lines [15:01] dwatkins: No you think. This is linux? NO WAY! [15:03] davmor2: well, I think "oh, that's disappointing, it's not giving me a nice concise list of services which have started up with or without success; people coming from a more GUI-related background would look upon this with horror" [15:03] =] [15:17] reminds me, I've got some dell machines that won't take a firmware update because the updater doesn't recognise the machines :| http://cl.ly/image/2d2S2F1w2w2A [15:18] I'd much rather see ...done ;) [15:22] i hate CHAP [15:22] source of my iscsi issues [15:24] foobarry: Causes Hardware Access Problems? [15:50] fixed it :D [16:03] shauno: the instructions that come with an update for a sony VTR (broadcast) state something along the lines of "you will receive an error - this means that the update succeeded" [16:05] another update software (again for sony) finishes with the delightful message that "update complete. happy and lucky!" [16:09] davmor2: dwatkins: I enjoy seeing copious textual output on bootup [16:10] errors on this one don't seem so lucky :/ I've tried applying it from within the OS, and with their boot disk .. neither works. Just irritating because the update should address a bug in how the fans are handled, and allow them to not run 100% [16:10] what I really want, is a fancy graphical KMS bootsplash that shows me the copious textual output also [16:11] shauno: is it noisy? :-p [16:11] it surprises me how noisy my mbp can be when the fans run at 100% [16:11] a little, yes. I'm not allowed to run it mon-fri until we get it rehomed [16:12] although that usually only happens during a firmware update [16:12] * davmor2 sends diddledan 10 print "Muppet! "; 20 goto 10 is that enough text? [16:13] davmor2: it needs more entropy than that [16:13] davmor2: preferably it needs to be meaningful text [16:13] diddledan: haha [16:13] diddledan: I also enjoy seeing lots of text at boot-time, but it would be best if it's a choice between: 1) nicely formatted and consistent messages about daemons starting or failing to start and 2) a simple list of things which started not to scare desktop users new to Ubuntu or not familiar with the command line [16:15] I remember seeing a snippet of video about the windows development team that, seemingly to made them look clever, had a guy sitting staring at a compilation in cmd.exe on fullscreen [16:16] I think that's why the [ OK ] stuff looks nice. it might be meaningless to users, but at least it looks like Good News [16:16]