[00:00] <knome> okay
[00:01] <knome> all sent on time?
[00:02] <ochosi> yeah
[00:02] <knome> ok
[00:06] <ochosi> knome: have you also tested the session menu stuff?
[00:06] <ochosi> in the greeter i mean
[00:07] <knome> yes
[00:07] <ochosi> so what's your feedback so far? still annoyed by the potential "en_AU"?
[00:07] <ochosi> and how do you like the badges so far?
[00:08] <knome> yes, still annoyed
[00:09] <knome> and i've seen the xubuntu badge :P
[00:09] <knome> and xfce badge in inkscape
[00:09] <knome> i'm fine with the badges
[00:09] <ochosi> hehe
[00:10] <knome> no i mean, the whole idea is ok
[00:10] <knome> and i don't mind if some weird session doesn't have a badge; the menu will show the current session anyway
[00:12] <ochosi> yup
[00:12] <ochosi> basically every distro/desktop can add session badges to hicolor and they'll automatically get picked up by the greeter
[00:13] <ochosi> can we lock down the submission page btw?
[00:13] <knome> i doubt so
[00:13] <knome> but we can just ignore
[00:13] <ochosi> ok
[00:14] <ochosi> yeah, i thought of putting a huge note up there once i'm done with moving
[00:14] <ochosi> (which i'm about to)
[00:14] <ochosi> ok, done. time for you to do your magic
[00:14] <knome> ;)
[00:15] <knome> no, imagemagick :P
[00:20] <ochosi> as your mail-notification will have already told you, i've edited the submissions page to reflect the closedness of the contest
[00:20] <knome> i don't have TB turned on, but ta
[00:22] <ochosi> not bad, the xfce-badge
[00:22] <ochosi> just tested it in action
[00:22] <knome> :)
[00:26] <ochosi> brainwash: ubuntu-badge is fixed
[00:26] <ochosi> knome: xfce-badge is pushed
[00:29] <knome> ochosi, accepted submissions are up
[00:31] <ochosi> thanks
[00:43] <knome> np
[00:44] <ochosi> can we create a tarball and put it up there as well? or is that too large for moinwiki to handle
[00:44] <knome> i can at some point create a tarball and share it semi-privatel
[00:44] <knome> +y
[00:44] <ochosi> theoretically we could provide it publicly after the contest
[00:44] <ochosi> as a kind of acknowledgement for all participants
[00:45] <knome> can talk with p leia2 about that
[00:45] <knome> i promised myself i'm going to bed before 2am today
[00:45] <knome> so i should be going already...
[00:45] <knome> nighty, ttyl
[00:46] <ochosi> hehe ok
[00:46] <ochosi> night knome 
[00:48] <brainwash> ochosi: negative, renaming it to lxde_ did not help
[00:48] <ochosi> hmm
[00:49] <brainwash> add a debug print
[00:49] <ochosi> you mean you'll add a debug print cause you have the lxde session? :D
[00:49] <ochosi> i can pastebin the diff for it if you need it
[00:50] <brainwash> I mean, print the session string to the greeter log
[00:50] <ochosi> yeah, i know
[00:51] <ochosi> http://dpaste.com/1555556/
[00:51] <brainwash> the greeter really makes me wonder once again.. should anyone be able to restart/shutdown the system while not being logged in (unlock screen)?
[00:52] <ochosi> yeah, i think not, but logind/lightdm should take care of that
[00:52] <ochosi> the greeter shouldn't have to do complex checks like that
[00:52] <brainwash> right, it's a general question
[00:52] <ochosi> yup
[00:53] <ochosi> i think there is almost no reason for being able to shutdown a system from the greeter when there's someone logged in
[00:53] <ochosi> sergio-br2: i'm looking at your icons now...
[00:53] <sergio-br2> ok
[00:53] <brainwash> ochosi: exactly
[00:53] <jimbo__> Hi
[00:54] <sergio-br2> i added thunderbird png icons, like firefox. Any problem?
[00:54] <brainwash> ochosi: and I request a "lock" symbol which should be displayed somewhere on the greeter screen :D
[00:54] <ochosi> sergio-br2: no, i think that's fine
[00:55] <ochosi> brainwash: yeah, i was considering to replace the session/language menus with a single lock icon
[00:55] <brainwash> ochosi: I know... bold font, "unlock" button.. but a lock icon would be awesome
[00:55] <ochosi> (before i figured out how to properly update them)
[00:55] <ochosi> yeah, the whole greeter theming will be revamped as soon as i'm done (which i mostly am now)
[00:55] <brainwash> could it be added into the login/unlock button?
[00:56] <brainwash> the open lock icon
[00:56] <ochosi> either that or in the panel
[00:57] <brainwash> it really helps with the navigation
[00:57] <ochosi> what does?
[00:58] <brainwash> navigation might be the wrong term.. I mean a symbol always helps to see and recognize things faster
[00:58] <brainwash> now that we use the greeter as unlock screen
[00:58] <brainwash> (and gnome-screensaver displays the lock icon)
[00:59] <brainwash> :D
[00:59] <sergio-br2> ochosi, the first commit that i made was wrong, but i fixed things after. Are there any problem? don't know yet exactly how git works
[00:59] <ochosi> sergio-br2: what is a bit of a problem are your symlinks, /home/sergio/Pictures/elementary-xfce/elementary-xfce/apps/128/accessories-text-editor.svg is not available to everyone! :)
[01:00] <sergio-br2> yeah rsrs
[01:00] <sergio-br2> but i fixed it after
[01:00] <sergio-br2> see the last commit
[01:01] <sergio-br2> used ln -r -s -f  for every icon
[01:01] <ochosi> oh, right
[01:01] <sergio-br2> dunno how to "erase" the first commit
[01:04] <ochosi> no need for that
[01:05] <sergio-br2> clock icon was changed? IMHO, i prefer the older...
[01:06] <ochosi> yeah, that's how it goes, can't make everyone happy, especially with icons...
[01:06] <ochosi> (another upstream merge)
[01:07] <sergio-br2> you liked?
[01:08] <sergio-br2> the edge is thinner
[01:10] <ochosi> yeah, i don't mind it
[01:11] <ochosi> the old one looked a bit bulky
[01:12] <ochosi> you gave me quite a lot to review, but i'm almost done
[01:13] <brainwash> ochosi: so it's "Lubuntu" and "LXDE"
[01:13] <brainwash> strange that it does not use the available icon
[01:14] <sergio-br2> :)
[01:15] <ochosi> brainwash: did you refresh the icon-cache?
[01:15] <brainwash> no
[01:16] <ochosi> sudo gtk-update-icon-cache -f /usr/share/icons/hicolor
[01:17] <ochosi> sergio-br2: generally speaking this is fine, but smaller merge-requests make it easier to review them
[01:17] <ochosi> so i can review them in parts
[01:18] <sergio-br2> so, it's better i do a commit for each icon?
[01:18] <brainwash> ochosi: works
[01:19] <brainwash> so it should ignore case
[01:19] <brainwash> and match lubuntu
[01:19] <ochosi> brainwash: so why didn't the lubuntu one work from the start?
[01:19] <ochosi> sergio-br2: nah, just smaller merge-requests :)
[01:20] <ochosi> sergio-br2: having e.g. all inkscape icons in one commit/merge-request is totally fine
[01:20] <sergio-br2> ok
[01:21] <brainwash> ochosi: because "lubuntu" != "Lubuntu"
[01:22] <brainwash> so ignore case
[01:22] <ochosi> hmpf
[01:22] <ochosi> ok
[01:24] <brainwash> or rename it to Lubuntu_
[01:25] <brainwash> lxde would be LXDE_
[01:27] <ochosi> pushed the fix
[01:27] <ochosi> should work now for lubuntu and lxde
[01:29] <ochosi> actually makes more sense to lowercase the session names, so thanks for catching that brainwash 
[01:32] <ochosi> ah crap, that last commit was crap
[01:32] <brainwash> don't worry.. won't test it right away
[01:33] <brainwash> my test system is already powered off
[01:34] <brainwash> should the unlock screen expose the restart/shutdown/.. menu?
[01:35] <brainwash> logind is not that helpful in this case
[02:33] <ochosi> sergio-br2: thanks again for the icons! feel free to keep them coming ;)
[02:33] <sergio-br2> yeah, soon more 3 icons
[02:34] <sergio-br2> ochosi, what you think about large screens?
[02:34] <ochosi> what do you mean?
[02:34] <ochosi> i like to use them
[02:35] <sergio-br2> the icons, they not went pixalated?
[02:36] <ochosi> in what sense?
[02:36] <sergio-br2> or the icons stay smaller?
[02:37] <sergio-br2> i mean, 128 pixel icons is not sufficient to large screens. But i don't know, i have only a 17" here, laptop
[02:38] <ochosi> ah
[02:38] <sergio-br2> i don't have large screen like 40" or more to test. Like a TV
[02:38] <ochosi> well that doesn't really matter
[02:38] <ochosi> xfce doesn't use 128px icons in many places
[02:38] <sergio-br2> hum, but whisker menu yes
[02:38] <ochosi> the icon-size doesn't depend on your screensize or resolution
[02:39] <ochosi> indeed, not sure it's very useful though
[02:39] <sergio-br2> the "very large" icon in whisker, do you know if it use 128 or 256?
[02:40] <sergio-br2> *option in whisker
[02:40] <ochosi> 128px afaik
[02:44] <ochosi> sergio-br2: actually 96px would be more useful than 128px, because that at least is used in some places
[02:44] <ochosi> (e.g. thunar)
[02:45] <sergio-br2> and it lacks
[02:46] <sergio-br2> where 96 is used?
[02:47] <ochosi> zoom in thunar with ctrl+
[02:47] <ochosi> you'll see it
[02:47] <ochosi> (hint: it's the blurry size)
[02:47] <ochosi> night everyone
[02:47] <ochosi> (hint 2: second-largest size)
[02:47] <sergio-br2> ahh, ok
[02:47] <sergio-br2> night
[02:49] <sergio-br2> ahh, understand
[02:49] <sergio-br2> ok, I'll see what I can do
[02:55] <jimbo__> u guys croptimining?
[04:05] <svetlana> Hi all. Like mentioned before the website appears to lack locales. What work needs to be done to enable them? Is the website available as a repo somewhere?
[04:11] <Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-website/xubuntu-website/theme - https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+bug/797600
[04:12] <svetlana> Thank you. Is there a specific reason you're linking me to the theme part of the website?
[04:16] <Unit193> That's the correct branch, also note the bug says the pot file is in there.  It's a tiny step towards getting it translated, but still unknown how to properly do it.
[04:17] <svetlana> Ah. That's a branch name. Thank you.
[04:17] <Unit193> May I ask what language you're looking for?
[04:17] <Unit193> (And, if you are who I think you are. :) )
[04:18] <svetlana> I appear to be reasonably good at reading English, but thought I'd try to see what effort providing a translation to Russian would entail.
[04:18] <Unit193> Right now, we're working on getting the shipped documentation translated and how to properly ship it too.  Currently, the docs Russian translation is up to ~85%
[04:19] <svetlana> Didn't know of “shipped documentation”. I appear to not use it. However, I will consider switching OS locale and participating in its localization, too. (I'm currently using it in English.)
[04:20] <Unit193> dpkg -L xubuntu-docs, http://docs.xubuntu.org, or Menu > Help
[04:25] <Unit193> Note, I don't know the most about translations as I exclusively speak English.
[04:27] <Unit193> The current development builds for the Russian documentation is: http://unit193.net/xubuntu/ru/ (refreshed this morning, EST.)
[04:27] <Unit193> knome: Any progress as of late on the website translation?
[04:30] <pleia2> I think we're still working on getting a plugin that canonical will accept
[04:31] <Unit193> Oh, cool.  Thanks.
[04:31] <pleia2> the other trouble is we have such a small team that keeping the english version of the site up to date is a challenge, let alone working with translators at this stage
[04:31] <pleia2> still hope to do so at some point, but it's tough
[05:19] <svetlana> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-website/xubuntu-website/theme/files has 2 directories, -fourteen and -wp. What are they for?
[08:45] <svetlana> pleia2: hi.
[08:45] <svetlana> pleia2: what do you mean by “plugin” in that context?
[08:46] <Unit193> xubuntu.org is wordpress.
[08:46] <svetlana> Unit193: it makes somesort sense, given my previous question. What is the other directory, fourteen?
[08:47] <Unit193> The site is being revamped, that's what I presume it is based on the name and date.
[08:47] <svetlana> http://input.mozilla.org is cool. I wonder whether wordpress has a plugin to such effect.
[08:48] <svetlana> Whoever works on the fourteen thing, it would be nice if he/she/it provided a readme outlining goals of his current work on it.
[08:53] <Unit193> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-marketing seems to be the blueprint for it.
[08:54] <svetlana> Unit193, what /is/ a "blueprint"?
[08:54] <svetlana> Looks like a todo, but I don't grasp the word origin.
[08:55] <Unit193> Building planning, for houses and offices and the like.
[08:55] <Unit193> (The origin, that is.)
[08:55] <svetlana> Oh, Wikipedia is helpful. The pictures. ;-p
[08:55] <Unit193> Now you know why "blue" ;)
[08:56] <svetlana> It looks like pasi is working on the website thing. does he/she ever come here?
[08:56] <svetlana> ah, it is knome. okay. I'll wait for him/her to wake up.
[08:57] <Unit193> (Finnish, but later day Finnish)  Almost 11am there.
[08:58] <Unit193> He's the project lead.
[08:58] <svetlana> I noticed that, and the nickname, from the launchpad profile.
[09:09] <svetlana> Unit193: while on it, where can I translate the builtin documentation? (resent; I appear to have disconnected)
[09:10] <Unit193> Right https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs
[09:42] <svetlana> perfect
[09:53] <slickymaster> morning all
[09:53] <slickymaster> elfy: you around?
[09:54] <svetlana> Morning, slickymaster.
[09:55] <slickymaster> hi svetlana, good morning
[09:56] <slickymaster> knome: I saw that jjfrv8 also made a MP for bug 1250052
[09:57] <slickymaster> do you want me to withdraw mine or are you planning on merging both?
[10:01] <brainwash> ochosi: a (non sudo) user is able to restart/shutdown.. the system while another user is also logged in, and the greeter allows restarttin/.. while sessions are locked
[10:02] <brainwash> ochosi: looks somewhat careless
[10:05] <brainwash> can we disable the menu? what would be the impact?
[10:24] <svetlana> slickymaster: what is a "MP"?
[10:29] <slickymaster> svetlana: it's a merge proposal in launchpad
[10:29] <svetlana> ok, thanks
[10:29] <slickymaster> np :)
[10:30] <svetlana> tbqh that's a bit more intuitive than 'pull request'; I couldn't guess how that works even after reading the full name of it
[10:31] <slickymaster> how that works? do you mean merge proposals?
[10:32] <knome> svetlana, hello
[10:32] <knome> slickymaster, i deleted your request to merge, so you can drop the branch
[10:33] <svetlana> knome, hi. I wanted to discuss your website work. you appear to work with 'fourteen' instead of wordpress. does that imply the website being localizable, by your intent?
[10:33] <slickymaster> ok knome, will do it
[10:33] <knome> svetlana, we've been talking about localized versions for a long time
[10:34] <knome> svetlana, the .pot file i've uploaded only allows the website theme strings to be translated
[10:34] <knome> svetlana, not the content itself
[10:34] <svetlana> what platform is the 'fourteen' thing?
[10:34] <knome> svetlana, so that will still need more work, and i have not ETA for that
[10:35] <knome> svetlana, our platform is wordpress.
[10:35] <svetlana> doesn't it have a plugin for localization of websites content?
[10:36] <knome> yes, but for our use case, they either lack some technical features we need, would produce really complex/overflowing UI, or cost something
[10:37] <svetlana> is there documentation of the features you appear to need, other than 'present content with images, page title, and page metadata'?
[10:37] <svetlana> and roughly what is your current focus of your work on the website?
[10:38] <knome> we need translators to have their own user role, and we want to only allow them translating
[10:38] <knome> we also need to only show the languages they are able to translate, to them
[10:38] <knome> i personally do not want the translation plugin to clutter the edit interface too much either
[10:39] <knome> the current focus is to get the new theme ready and published
[10:39] <svetlana> what is the fourteen thing? I assume it's a vanilla wordpress with some your work on css, layout and content, without modifying the source of wordpress itself?
[10:40] <knome> it is mostly done, and only waiting for last rounds of feedback and small fixes before being filed as a ticket for the canonical IS to take it to production
[10:40] <knome> you are looking in the branch called "themes"... it's a wordpress theme
[10:40] <knome> and no, of course i'm not modifying the wordpress core itself, because that would mean we would have to maintain upgrades manually
[10:41] <knome> if you look in the "plugins" branch, you'll see a few plugins we have been/will be using
[10:42] <svetlana> ok, I'll check it out
[10:42] <svetlana> do you have a staging server somewhere for me to see the new website without cloning the repo and setting it up manually?
[10:43] <knome> http://xstaging.lallinaho.fi/
[10:45] <ochosi> brainwash: how does unity-greeter handle that? (i.e. the session-menu + gnome-settings-daemon)
[10:51] <brainwash> ochosi: I assume that it will behave the same way, the core problem might be logind (policykit rule)
[10:51] <ochosi> not sure logind provides such fine-grain control
[10:52] <brainwash> the greeter as unlock screen introduces this new problem
[10:52] <ochosi> not really
[10:52] <ochosi> when switching users you get that problem as well
[10:52] <ochosi> you can already do that in 13.10
[10:52] <ochosi> or 13.04
[10:52] <ochosi> or any release with lightdm+logind
[10:53] <brainwash> yes, I meant now that we use the greeter as unlock screen
[10:53] <brainwash> the problem becomes more important
[10:53] <svetlana> knome: it doesn't look at all as much different as I expected
[10:54] <svetlana> I should applaud you for being sufficiently caring about users being used to the old website, I guess :)
[10:54] <brainwash> ochosi: switching users is a "special" case, almost no ones uses this
[10:54] <brainwash> ochosi: but the unlock screen, almost everyone does
[10:54] <ochosi> brainwash: frankly i think it's about the same. the problem has always been of the same size/gravity, it just affects multi-user desktops, single-users never had a problem and also don't have one now
[10:54] <knome> svetlana, the point wasn't to redesign the site completely, but just "refresh" the looks; and thanks
[10:54] <ochosi> brainwash: single-users are at fault themselves when shutting down their own session
[10:55] <brainwash> ochosi: and what if someone else uncovers the greeter and triggers restart?
[10:55] <brainwash> everyone can
[10:55] <ochosi> yeah, everyone can restart your laptop with physical access
[10:55] <ochosi> they can also just hit the powerbutton for >10secs
[10:56] <ochosi> i'm not saying we shouldn't take care of this
[10:56] <brainwash> and if pysical access is limited?
[10:56] <ochosi> just that the problem was always the same
[10:56] <brainwash> not everyone uses a laptop :D
[10:57] <bluesabre-laptop> so, how difficult would it be to solve?
[10:57] <brainwash> yes, I'm just trying to point out this issue and find a way to solve it
[10:57] <brainwash> 1) identify the problem
[10:57] <ochosi> bluesabre-laptop: probably not *very*
[10:57] <bluesabre-laptop> who wants bonus points ^
[10:58] <brainwash> ochosi: so it's not problem we should care about?
[10:58] <ochosi> 11:56  ochosi$ i'm not saying we shouldn't take care of this
[11:00] <brainwash> disabling the power menu while lock_hint is set would be an imcomplete workaround
[11:00] <brainwash> ah, what is the light-lock greybird branch?
[11:01] <brainwash> using it now :D
[11:01] <brainwash> brb
[11:01] <bluesabre-laptop> lol
[11:02] <bluesabre-laptop> looks like brainwash has g+
[11:02] <ochosi> nah, he's just monitoring our branches i think :)
[11:02] <knome> he's an A-class lurker
[11:03] <ochosi> :>
[11:03] <brainwash> nono, I simply keep my local greybird git repo up-to-date
[11:04] <bluesabre-laptop> ah
[11:04] <brainwash> so I got the message about the new branch
[11:04] <bluesabre-laptop> if you have the lightdm-gtk-greeter daily branch you'll see a fancy difference
[11:05] <brainwash> ochosi: lock icon next to the "unlock" button, yes or no? :)
[11:05] <bluesabre-laptop> its something we're actually discussing right now
[11:05] <brainwash> using bzr
[11:05] <ochosi> brainwash: maybe :) feel free to propose a patch
[11:05] <brainwash> ochosi: it's a good idea?
[11:06] <brainwash> it adds more clutter
[11:09] <ochosi> yeah, in a way, i'm not entirely sold on it yet
[11:09] <ochosi> anyway, if you can write up all the cases/scenario's for the shutdown/reboot thing, i can try to solve that in the greeter
[11:10] <ochosi> but as you pointed out, just hiding it when it's a lockscreen is only a workaround
[11:10] <ochosi> it doesn't take care of the switch-to-greeter thing
[11:18] <brainwash> ochosi: right, a check for logged in users would be required in this case
[11:19] <ochosi> should suspend be allowed?
[11:20] <ochosi> also, i presume the lubuntu issue is solved?
[11:20] <brainwash> nothing should be allowed, unless you can confirm the action with your password
[11:20] <svetlana> I use suspend. Why disable it?
[11:21] <svetlana> Password confirmation sounds like an ok idea.
[11:21] <ochosi> brainwash: password? how so?
[11:21] <svetlana> (At least if other users are logged in.)
[11:21] <brainwash> ochosi: your login details
[11:22] <brainwash> to confirm the action while another user is currently logged in
[11:22] <brainwash> but maybe it's not a big deal after all
[11:23] <brainwash> I'll check unity-greeter in a moment
[11:23] <brainwash> downloading and applying updates currently, ~500MB
[11:24] <brainwash> this takes like an hour to complete
[11:25] <ochosi> phew
[11:25] <ochosi> i'm not sure we can really easily ask for the root password in the greeter
[11:28] <brainwash> no, login details of an existing user
[11:28] <brainwash> sounds strange
[11:31] <brainwash> basically a session login or unlock
[11:32] <brainwash> so only known users are allowed to perform these actions
[11:35] <brainwash> I'll move the discussion to #ubuntu-devel later
[11:44] <ochosi> yeah, makes sense
[12:03] <ochosi> brainwash: just to get that confirmed, lubuntu's badge works now?
[12:18] <brainwash> ochosi: works, lubuntu and lxde show the same badge
[12:18] <ochosi> yup, i dont know whether they have separate logos
[12:18] <bluesabre-laptop> elfy/forestpiskie: menulibre2 is now functionally complete.  It's missing a help dialog and a few dialog boxes, but editing menus (except adding new directories and separators -- will add that tonight) and launchers is good
[12:19] <bluesabre-laptop> https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/menulibre/menulibre2
[12:19] <bluesabre-laptop> caveat: adding new items to the topmost level of the xfce menu doesn't seem to work, but didn't work for alacarte either
[12:19] <bluesabre-laptop> if you want to do some light testing today, please pull the code and run bin/menulibre
[12:19] <bluesabre-laptop> I'll try to get it packaged tonight
[12:20] <bluesabre-laptop> still a little bit of cleanup to do
[12:20] <bluesabre-laptop> otherwise, I'll have a bigger update tonight
[12:21] <brainwash> bluesabre-laptop: did you already take a look at the accountsservice api which could be used to set the profile picture in mugshot?
[12:21] <bluesabre-laptop> brainwash: not yet, been going full-force on menulibre to this point
[12:23] <brainwash> should I create a report or did you already add this to your todo list?
[12:25] <bluesabre-laptop> brainwash: I have it written down here
[12:25] <bluesabre-laptop> fwiw, http://imagebin.org/287192
[12:25] <ochosi> bluesabre-laptop: that looks great! great work!
[12:26] <slickymaster> bluesabre-laptop: quick question
[12:26] <bluesabre-laptop> slickymaster: what's up?
[12:26] <brainwash> looks awesome
[12:26] <slickymaster> reporting bugs on Mugshot, will it only be done through LP?
[12:26] <bluesabre-laptop> yes
[12:27] <slickymaster> ok, that's it
[12:27] <slickymaster> thanks
[12:27] <bluesabre-laptop> cool
[12:27] <bluesabre-laptop> thanks!
[12:27] <bluesabre-laptop> going to get ready for work now, be back tonight
[12:42] <elfy> bluesabre-laptop: excellent - though I've got about 20 minutes left of lunch so I'll not be looking :)
[12:46] <slickymaster> hi elfy 
[12:46] <slickymaster> saw your question on Trello
[12:47] <slickymaster> there's nothing blocking it, it's just that there's always something up
[12:47] <slickymaster> I'll do it this weekend
[12:48] <elfy> wasn't a question as such - just a prompt for me - the same one is also in the meetin glogs :p
[12:50] <elfy> slickymaster: well - bear in mind that we need to readd suspend somewhere to a test - need to catch ochosi and knome at the same time for my 'plan' though
[12:50] <slickymaster> yeah, yesterady I wasn't able to attend the meeting, but I read the logs
[12:52] <ochosi> elfy: what's up? :
[12:53] <elfy> ochosi: nothings up as such :)
[12:53] <elfy> ACTION: elfy and knome/ochosi to discuss lightlocker testing - perhaps include old post install testing in that
[12:53] <ochosi> ah ok
[12:53] <ochosi> what does the test look like now?
[12:54] <elfy> the lightlocker one looks like nothing at the moment - my thought is we are still missing the suspend test from the old post install test
[12:55] <ochosi> 1) install light-locker, remove xscreensaver 2) restart session 3) open terminal and run "light-locker-comand -l" 4) from the lockscreen try ctrl+alt+f7 to access your session -> light-locker should block the access to that
[12:55] <elfy> was thinking to include that in the lightlocker one given that people are going to locking and logging out
[12:55] <ochosi> i think with the version that's in trusty now it should auto-lock on suspend
[12:55] <ochosi> but i can only start testing trusty next week when i get my large ssd
[12:55] <elfy> anyway - not got time now - only get 30 minutes for lunch :)
[12:56] <ochosi> oh, sure
[12:56] <ochosi> well anyway, the 4 steps above are the basic test
[12:56] <elfy> yep
[12:56] <ochosi> the suspend test is the same for 1) and 2), then 3) suspend 4) check whether you end up at the login screen when it wakes up
[12:57] <ochosi> oh, and adding the lightdm-gtk-greeter daily PPA is probably not a mistake there
[12:57] <ochosi> action-item -> done :)
[12:57] <knome> well
[12:57] <knome> i'm sure elfy is looking at the *final* test
[12:57] <elfy> don't really want to be doing the test assuming that people have to be installing stuff - and then a week or so later changing it all again
[12:57] <knome> adding a PPA isn't what users should need to do :P
[12:58] <ochosi> yeah, it's working without the PPA
[12:58] <ochosi> just the "unlock" button might still be labeled "log in"
[12:58] <knome> i guess the question number one is:
[12:58] <ochosi> that's the main problem
[12:59] <knome> can we write the final test now and would it be correct
[12:59] <knome> well that's something we can change later
[12:59] <knome> if it's just one label
[13:00] <ochosi> other than that it should work fine
[13:00] <ochosi> you wont get additional benefits like the screen-blanking
[13:01] <ochosi> sean said he'll do a greeter-release on the weekend
[13:01] <ochosi> but that isn't the final release yet and i dunno who would upload it to trusty anyway
[13:01] <ochosi> (don't wanna clog the sponsor queue with dev-releases)
[13:02] <brainwash> ochosi: http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/lockicon.php
[13:03] <ochosi> brainwash: why not put it in the button directly?
[13:03] <brainwash> or next to the user name
[13:04] <brainwash> I know, it looks stupid right now
[13:04] <ochosi> yeah, although your's is a nice example of long usernames already taking up a lot of space
[13:04] <ochosi> i think the panel could also be a good place tbh
[13:04] <ochosi> after all, all indicators are shown there
[13:04] <knome> panel next to the computer name maybe?
[13:04] <ochosi> i was also considering to put the lock on top of the avatar at some point...
[13:05] <pmjdebruijn> ochosi: btw I played a bit more with dithering/introducing noise into the default wallpaper, but I never got any good results
[13:05] <slickymaster> bbl
[13:05] <ochosi> pmjdebruijn: sad to hear. i do like the idea
[13:06] <slickymaster> gotta go lunch 
[13:08] <knome> bon appetit
[13:16] <brainwash> ochosi: I like the idea of having the lock icon inside the user combobox, next to every user name with a currently locked session
[13:17] <brainwash> but this glade stuff looks a bit complicated
[13:18] <knome> brainwash, you can do it tiger
[13:19] <brainwash> well, at least it's fun to mess around with it
[13:21] <brainwash> knome: btw how do we keep track of the new hidden user management tool? the 14.04 roadmap does not mention it yet, or?
[13:21] <knome> we're poking the author with ochosi
[13:22] <brainwash> such a tool needs much testing
[13:22] <knome> brainwash, ...as you can see in #xfce-dev
[13:22] <knome> much and much
[13:22] <brainwash> so I'm a bit concerned about it
[13:22] <knome> it isn't hardware dependent
[13:22] <svetlana> So many channels. Here. #ubuntu-dev, #xfce-dev.
[13:22] <knome> svetlana, the xubuntu team barely uses #ubuntu-dev though
[13:23] <svetlana> is there a 'team'? I'd expect anyone be able to propose a patch. How do you define a 'team', out of curiousity?
[13:24] <svetlana> The people with commit access?
[13:24] <knome> the core team consists of people who have perpetually committed to the project
[13:24] <knome> people with different access to different areas belong to subteams, like ~xubuntu-dev or ~xubuntu-doc
[13:25] <knome> core team being https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team
[13:25] <svetlana> Oh, such a lot of paperwork and formalities. I see. Thanks.
[13:25] <knome> lot and lot...
[13:26] <svetlana> Seems to be not a thing of interest, with team being small and contributors being able to contribute and weigh in during discussions anyway.
[13:26] <knome> many access rights are given to certain groups on LP anyway
[13:27] <knome> apart from the -qa team, all the subteams do have a specific access right which is integrally tied into being a member of that group
[13:27] <knome> eg. members of ~xubuntu-web have admin access to the website
[13:28] <knome> the subteams also help people outside the project see a list of optimal contact points, rather than having to ask everyone
[13:30] <knome> ...and finally, the subteams are also a stepping stone to join the core team; do things with artwork and you'll be accepted to the artwork team for "probation", after keeping up the good work you'll be accepted to the core team
[13:31] <knome> if the subteams didn't have any access rights, maybe it should be rethought if it's meaningful bureaucracy
[13:31] <knome> ultimately, it's not like we have to add/remove members from the teams every day
[13:33] <knome> svetlana, besides, why would any FOSS project want to limit contributions to a specific group anyway ?
[13:39] <svetlana> knome, didn't expect it to; I was merely trying to understand how 'teams' work.
[13:39] <svetlana> Hopefully decision-making isn't limited to the core team. If so, that's really not a thing I want to go into detail of.
[13:50] <pmjdebruijn> btw
[13:50] <pmjdebruijn> ochosi: http://techvela.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/warty-final-ubuntu.jpg the default ubuntu wallpaper uses a similar approach as well, I just don't know the specific technique they use
[13:53] <pmjdebruijn> http://design.canonical.com/author/otto-chaotic/ he probably made that wallpaper
[13:57] <knome> svetlana, more or less is, but we need to draw the line somewhere. that's not to say people not in the core team can't affect decisions, especially if they are actually contributing towards the cause as well
[13:59] <svetlana> The questions being public before being decided is all that one'd need to give core people feedback. They'd process it as necesary, depending on how sensible it is.
[14:00] <knome> svetlana, questions are public, and voting on them happens on the community meetings
[14:00] <svetlana> oh. I hope there's no separate channel for that? there is too many already
[14:00] <knome> no, we're running our meetings on this channel
[14:00] <knome> (many teams use #ubuntu-meeting for that though)
[14:01] <pmjdebruijn> oh btw
[14:01]  * pmjdebruijn tried Whisker menu the other day on xubuntu-saucy, /me kinda likes it
[14:01] <ochosi> pmjdebruijn: would be nice if you could investigate that, or get in touch with otto
[14:01] <ochosi> gotta go, bbl
[14:02] <knome> pmjdebruijn, looks like we're going to at least include it by default, so you can easily start using it
[14:02] <knome> svetlana, are you interested in contributing then?
[14:03] <pmjdebruijn> ochosi: I'll give that a try @otto
[14:04] <pmjdebruijn> knome: fair enough, I don't have any strong opinions either way
[14:04] <pmjdebruijn> but it's certainly not bad, I guess I'll probably stick to it for now, to see how mature it is... but at first glance it seems quite mature
[14:05] <pmjdebruijn> the way it sounds xubuntu 14.04 will be quite awesome :)
[14:05] <svetlana> knome: Unit193 kindly linked me to translation thingie for the help shipped with the system, and I'll look at them. I would also check what wordpress plugins exist for translations. I think that's enough for a start for a few days to me.
[14:05] <knome> it's been around for some time, so the codebase itseld should be rather stable; whether you like how it handles things is a different question; i don't personally use any menus whasoever
[14:06] <knome> pmjdebruijn, definitely! hoping we can actually benefit from all the 2 years of preparing new stuff for the LTS finally
[14:06] <pmjdebruijn> :)
[14:06] <knome> svetlana, ok, thanks. for the wordpress plugins, we have looked at them and i work with wordpress commercially, so don't keep too high expectations...
[14:06] <pmjdebruijn> with lightdm/light-locker, all the cosmetic ""issues" are gone now too
[14:08] <svetlana> knome, I see. I didn't understand the thought about expectations.
[14:08] <knome> yep, we're doing good progress
[14:08] <knome> svetlana, what i meant was: feel free to look at them, but i'm somewhat sure you won't find anything we want to use, so don't feel sad if you don't :)
[14:09] <svetlana> How do you work for it commercially? Do all the websites you work on neglect translating? Or do they have not as strict requirements for the roles and access?
[14:10] <svetlana> Out of curiousity, do you work from home? You seem around a lot during the years.
[14:10] <knome> yes, i work from home
[14:10] <knome> brb
[14:10] <svetlana> Ah. :-)
[14:14] <knome> svetlana, either they don't need translations, or they are so small sites that there are other, better way to do the translations than to increase the codebase that needs to be maintained; also, yes, they usually don't have such strict requirements
[14:14] <knome> and ultimately, i can just use the paid plugins if really needed :)
[14:14] <knome> anyway, now bbl ->
[14:15] <svetlana> I see. Hopefully there is an open alternative. See you later.
[14:58] <brainwash> ochosi: http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/lockicon2.php http://lpaste.net/98645
[15:00] <brainwash> ochosi: I'll try to place the icon inside the button or next to the user name, don't know how yet (without breaking the layout)
[15:03] <brainwash> feel free to change it the way you like it, mr. lead designer :D
[17:01] <brainwash> ochosi: the unlock screen gets launched from an active session -> restart, shutdown and suspend are allowed despite the fact that the active session is locked
[17:04] <brainwash> a change of the policykit rules seems unlikely
[17:05] <brainwash> we requested the change of the restart rule for multiple sessions, so the greeter won't hide the restart option after the user logs out
[17:07] <brainwash> this change was needed, because a logout did not terminate all user process.. I think pulseaudio was still running like 30sec after logout, so logind assumed that multiple sessions are still running
[17:09] <brainwash> that reminds me of this possible change.. does the greeter power menu call the can_restart/shutdown function only initially or when the menu is actually opened?
[17:39] <brainwash> ochosi: the power menu should ask lightdm (can restart? shutdown? and so on) every time the user opens the menu
[17:40] <brainwash> if certain actions are not permitted, hide them "dynamically"
[17:44] <ochosi> i think it does that already
[17:44] <ochosi> i'd have to check the code
[17:44] <ochosi> but lightdm reports that the user can reboot
[17:44] <ochosi> because all users can now, according to logind
[17:47] <brainwash> what about non ubuntu systems?
[17:47] <brainwash> oh wait
[17:47] <brainwash> the change was made upstream
[17:48] <brainwash> but still, rules can be changed by the admin/system maintainer
[17:50] <brainwash> long story short: hiding the power menu while users are logged in would be the easiest solution
[17:51] <elfy> catching the end of a conversation without reading the rest can cause a wot moment :p
[17:52] <brainwash> normal lock screen programs like xscreensaver and gnome-screensaver don't offer the possibility to restart, shutdown,.. the system
[17:53] <brainwash> elfy: I really want to solve this madness :)
[17:56] <brainwash> by reading this channel lately one could get the impression that xubuntu is only about the lightdm gtk greeter
[17:56] <ochosi> :)
[17:57] <ochosi> it has become the center of attention for me lately at least
[17:57] <brainwash> right, it has to work properly and look awesome
[17:57] <ochosi> the latter is already quite true
[17:57] <elfy> :D
[17:58] <ochosi> so anyhoo, just checked the code, it only checks once at init whether to show/hide the powermenu
[17:58] <brainwash> yep
[17:58] <ochosi> but anyway, the result wouldn't be different even later, at least for lightdm_get_can_restart
[17:58] <ochosi> because it's not user-related
[17:59] <brainwash> not user related?
[17:59] <ochosi> i guess the quick'n'easy patch is to add a logged_in check there as well
[17:59] <ochosi> so it'll be hidden always when users are logged in
[17:59] <brainwash> right
[18:01] <brainwash> mmh, maybe replace the power menu with the lock icon in this case
[18:03] <ochosi> ?
[18:03] <ochosi> not sure i get it
[18:03] <ochosi> you mean completely replace it. hm.
[18:03] <ochosi> yeah, possible
[18:03] <brainwash> display the "lock icon" when the power menu icon/menu is hidden
[18:03] <ochosi> i think i also wanna give users a feedback though
[18:04] <ochosi> so when they click, e.g. the menu opens and displays a menuitem saying that there's someone logged in, so shutdown/reboot is impossible
[18:04] <ochosi> anyway, this can be annoying though as well, if a session hangs or if something goes wrong during logout
[18:04] <ochosi> so some sort of override would be nice, but i think rather impossible
[18:08] <brainwash> complicated stuff
[18:09] <ochosi> hmpf, i need to do a user-check though... http://people.ubuntu.com/~robert-ancell/lightdm/reference/lightdm-gobject-1-User-Accounts.html#lightdm-user-get-logged-in
[18:09] <ochosi> so theoretically i'd have to do that check for all users :/
[18:12] <brainwash> which is possible
[18:12] <brainwash> we need a clean solution
[18:13] <ochosi> yeah, it can be done cleanly in load_user_lit
[18:13] <ochosi> list
[18:14] <pmjdebruijn> ochosi: I mailed otto just now
[18:14] <brainwash> yeah, but I was also thinking of a general clean solution involving logind/lightdm/greeter
[18:15] <ochosi> pmjdebruijn: thanks!
[18:15] <pmjdebruijn> btw
[18:15] <ochosi> brainwash: well if you can come up with something, let me know :)
[18:16] <brainwash> ochosi: sure
[18:16] <pmjdebruijn> I tried modifying plymouth*ubuntu* and removing the plymouth backdrop wallpaper, so I'd only have a white xubuntu logo on a black background, and that looks pretty classy too 
[18:17] <brainwash> black background is nice in general
[18:17] <ochosi> pmjdebruijn: yeah, i agree
[18:17] <pmjdebruijn> and it doesn't band :D
[18:17] <brainwash> improves the transition boot -> plymouth -> greeter
[18:17] <ochosi> yeah, currently the problem is that plymouth doesn't set the root-pixmap :D
[18:17] <brainwash> because the background stays black

[18:19] <brainwash> I like the idea
[18:21] <elfy> ideas are great
[18:21] <brainwash> or is a mainly black plymouth screen against the xubuntu philosophy?
[18:22] <brainwash> xubuntu = blue
[18:22] <pmjdebruijn> smurfbuntu :)
[18:23] <pmjdebruijn> but the blue splash doesn't look bad at all either
[18:23] <brainwash> pmjdebruijn: can you upload the wallpaper?
[18:23] <pmjdebruijn> what wallpaper?
[18:23] <brainwash> the white logo black backgroundone
[18:24] <pmjdebruijn> I just commented it out in the plymouth theme .script file
[18:24] <pmjdebruijn> so there is no wallpaper in my modified theme
[18:24] <brainwash> ok, I'm ot familiar with plymouth at all
[18:24] <ochosi> or ponybuntu
[18:24] <brainwash> not using it since it got introduced
[18:25] <pmjdebruijn> if you open /lib/plymouth/themes/xubuntu-logo/xubuntu-logo.script  it's fairly obvious :)
[18:25] <brainwash> thanks
[18:25] <brainwash> I'll try that
[18:25]  * pmjdebruijn have much experience with it either
[18:25] <ochosi> plymouth has a weird scripting language
[18:25] <pmjdebruijn> I did modify the actual packages sources and rebuilt locally though
[18:25] <ochosi> very custom, theoretically powerful
[18:25] <ochosi> but on many modern systems you only see it for a second, so...
[18:26] <ochosi> bbl
[18:26] <pmjdebruijn> SSDs are plymouth's nemesis :)
[18:29] <elfy> brainwash: xfdesktop4 for when I do this bug for the xfdesktop --reload - or do I even need to bother (if I don't we'll get it reported anyway though probably/I'd hope)
[18:36] <slickymaster> bbl ->
[18:39] <elfy> nvm - done it now
[18:41] <brainwash> and it worked?
[18:42] <elfy> reporting it against xfdesktop4 worked fine :p
[18:42] <elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1270261
[18:42] <brainwash> --reload
[18:42] <elfy> needed one for the test call
[18:42] <elfy> oh yea - --reload works
[18:43] <brainwash> it's not only the background.. font and font color are wrong too -> not properly themed
[18:43] <pleia2> knome: I have access to static.xubuntu.org, it's on the same server as docs \o/
[18:43] <brainwash> you gonna add my upstream report?
[18:43] <elfy> brainwash: I really needed to get a lp number - what's the upstream report 
[18:44] <elfy> got it 
[18:44] <elfy> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10605
[18:45] <brainwash> ok
[18:45] <elfy> all done 
[18:45] <brainwash> strange that I cannot find my report via google
[18:46] <elfy> really should look at bugzilla.xfce.org more often
[18:47] <elfy> at least I've got an account there that I can remember now :p
[18:47] <knome> pleia2, yep, i noticed the IS tracker email :)
[18:48] <knome> pleia2, can you run php on the server? :P
[18:48] <brainwash> ochosi: can you confirm that keyboard shortcuts are getting ignored for like 10sec after unlocking the session (light-locker)?
[18:48] <pleia2> knome: nope
[18:48] <knome> pleia2, did you double-check? ;)
[18:48] <pleia2> knome: yes, looked in mods-enabled
[18:49] <knome> oki
[18:49] <knome> fair enough
[18:49] <pleia2> (and php packages aren't installed)
[18:49] <brainwash> ochosi: xfsettingsd needs a 10sec warm up until it will continue processing kb shortcuts :D
[20:06] <ochosi> brainwash: no, just tested, kb-shortcuts work immediately here
[20:07] <ochosi> i'll be away from tonight until monday, so don't expect any replies from me until then
[20:16] <ochosi> brainwash: patch against greeter-trunk to hide the powermenu when there are users logged in: http://dpaste.com/1556849/
[20:16] <ochosi> please test it and let me know whether it works expectedly
[20:17] <ochosi> it can then easily be replaced by a lock-icon and menu that gives the user specific information why shutdown/reboot/suspend are forbidden
[20:17] <ochosi> (theoretically suspend could be allowed though)
[20:25] <ochosi> quite a pity that http://www.thecutestgeek.com/wildguppy doesn't work here
[20:25] <ochosi> the idea is neat
[20:37] <sergio-br2> hi hi
[20:37] <sergio-br2> ochosi, 22 pixel size is used in thunar?
[20:39] <ochosi> hey sergio-br2 
[20:39] <ochosi> let me check
[20:39] <ochosi> no, only 24px from what i can see
[20:40] <sergio-br2> 16 - 24 - 32 - 48 - 64 - 96 - 128 ?
[20:40] <ochosi> 22px seems to be mainly for toolbars and the like
[20:40] <ochosi> yup
[20:40] <sergio-br2> ah, ok
[20:40] <ochosi> so in terms of folders and mimes, 96px would make some sense
[20:40] <ochosi> (another area i wanted to work on for some time but didn't get to is icons for webapps)
[20:41] <ochosi> there is also still room for improvement in terms of symbolic icons or the -darker addon
[20:41] <ochosi> it's all a huge playground :)
[20:42] <sergio-br2> haha, ok
[20:42] <sergio-br2> and you know about whisker menu? Is it the same order as i type before?
[20:42] <sergio-br2> i mean, the size used in whisker option
[20:43] <ochosi> yup
[20:43] <ochosi> just checked to be sure
[20:45] <ochosi> ok, gotta go
[20:45] <ochosi> have fun everyone
[20:45] <sergio-br2> well, you tell about "room for improvement", but i'm not an artist... i only know resize icons :D
[20:50] <ochosi> sergio-br2: well, that is some help i/we can really use though!
[20:50] <ochosi> (had to come back for something ;))
[20:55] <Unit193> knome: And aw man!  Install whisker by default? :(
[21:07] <brainwash> ochosi: http://lpaste.net/98675
[21:09] <brainwash> ochosi: so only one location with gtk3 indicator libs is passed to the greeter
[21:13] <brainwash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter/trunk/view/head:/src/Makefile.am#L17
[21:14] <brainwash> ochosi: I'll test your power_menu patch
[21:14] <brainwash> Unit193: do you use light-locker?
[21:14] <brainwash> use or test
[21:14] <Unit193> Nope.
[21:15] <brainwash> ok
[21:15] <Unit193> Tested it in vm on request though.
[21:16] <brainwash> it's nothing big anyway
[21:24] <Unit193> Well, that just makes it easier to test, no? :)
[21:49] <Unit193> DanChapman: Howdy.
[23:00] <knome> Unit193, ship, not use
[23:00] <knome> Unit193, that was voted on.
[23:17] <brainwash> bluesabre-laptop: are you familiar with ligthdm-gtk-greeter and its routine to load gtk3 indicators?
[23:18] <brainwash> appears to be broken in trusty
[23:20] <elfy> what appears to be broken 
[23:24] <brainwash> lightdm-gtk-greeter should be able to load indicators
[23:24] <brainwash> like unity-greeter does
[23:24] <elfy> where 
[23:25] <brainwash> you need to configure it
[23:25] <brainwash> lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf
[23:25] <elfy> no idea what that does - only had it for a short while I was testing the other thing
[23:25] <Unit193> brainwash: GTK3 greeter?
[23:25] <brainwash> yes ofc
[23:25] <brainwash> trusty
[23:25] <elfy> brainwash: ok - so unity-greeter doesn't do anything of the sort until someone fiddles with it? 
[23:25] <Unit193> (There's a gtk2 build too. :P )
[23:26] <ali1234> brainwash: it's probably.... yet again, the upstart changes
[23:26] <brainwash> does the gtk2 build even support indicators? :D
[23:27] <brainwash> ali1234: yeah, so the only way to fix it would be to copy unity-greeter's method
[23:27] <svetlana> brainwash: ‘trusty’ is an ironically funny name. Thanks for mentioning it.
[23:28] <brainwash> it is?
[23:28] <brainwash> :D
[23:29] <elfy> svetlana: I rename them usually
[23:29] <ali1234> brainwash: would have to run the backends manually or something
[23:29] <ali1234> and set the var so they don't instaquit
[23:30] <brainwash> ali1234: see http://lpaste.net/98675
[23:30] <brainwash> the greeter only checks 1 directory for indicators
[23:30] <brainwash> and unity-greeter seems to use a different approach
[23:30] <ali1234> those are only the front ends
[23:31] <ali1234> you have to launch the service too now
[23:31] <elfy> brainwash ali1234 - I'm not sure why ochosi thought I should be seeing things in the app ind - he seem's to - not a one here
[23:31] <elfy> though possibly - different apps I guess
[23:32] <brainwash> things?
[23:32] <elfy> well - I see no things at all in the ind panel - everything is still in notifications
[23:33] <elfy> ochosi saw my panel and commented/asked
[23:33] <brainwash> can you link it again?
[23:33] <ali1234> that's still because of the upstart changes
[23:33] <elfy> ali1234: I'd guessed that was the case
[23:33] <brainwash> but the workaround is mentioned on the wiki site
[23:34] <brainwash> known issues
[23:34] <elfy> brainwash: I'll do a new one and move ind panel to the right end
[23:34] <ali1234> put INDICATOR_ALLOW_NO_WATCHERS=yes in /etc/environment
[23:34] <ali1234> it will fix it
[23:35] <elfy> thought I had 
[23:35] <elfy> seems not
[23:35] <brainwash> actually I did expect a fast fix for this
[23:36] <elfy> ali1234: do I need reboot or logout/in to check
[23:36] <ali1234> log out and in should be enough
[23:36] <elfy> brainwash: I thought I'd edited the file in here :)
[23:36] <damiank> hi i have been using xubuntu for a couple of years now and i just wanted to say hi and thanks to all you devs
[23:37] <brainwash> damiank: great to hear :)
[23:38] <brainwash> you should also thank the devs in #xfce-dev
[23:38] <elfy> http://imagebin.org/287287
[23:38] <damiank> i am on that
[23:38] <elfy> there you are - ind plugin at right end - notification area - just right of the vb launcher
[23:39] <damiank> i always work coding on php so i cant help too much on desktop packages but i hope i will be able to help sometime
[23:39] <elfy> I ought to really go to this xfce channel ...
[23:40] <damiank> :)
[23:40] <damiank> i said on other channel ;)
[23:42] <elfy> damiank: if you can code at all - you'll be more help on that front than I ever will :)
[23:42] <elfy> I just cajole people - a lot
[23:42] <brainwash> damiank: take a look at http://xubuntu.org/contribute/
[23:42] <damiank> i'm there
[23:42] <brainwash> help is always needed
[23:42] <elfy> brainwash ali1234 - though I appear to now have nm in indicator panel
[23:43] <ali1234> yeah
[23:43] <damiank> brainwash just let me know how i can help
[23:43] <ali1234> nm uses indicator-application
[23:43] <damiank> i'll try to be here
[23:43] <brainwash> damiank: ok :)
[23:43] <elfy> ali1234: I've been kind of assuming it's the major apps I use don't actually have an indicator to use
[23:43] <brainwash> nm applet might fall back to notification icon
[23:43] <brainwash> it's a race condition
[23:44] <elfy> though if I run the default ones - they don't show up
[23:44] <ali1234> "default"?
[23:44] <elfy> however because I never see them - I don't know if they should
[23:45] <ali1234> pidgin does not use indicator-application, it uses indicator-messages
[23:45] <elfy> ali1234: gmb is the default music thingy - hate it - use something else :)
[23:45] <ali1234> gmb uses indicator-sound
[23:45] <ali1234> as does rhythmbox
[23:45] <elfy> aah - so does clementine :)
[23:46] <ali1234> it really keeps your panel tidy, better than having loads of icons
[23:46] <elfy> but do things like evince/abiword etc show up there?
[23:46] <ali1234> i dunno, why would a text editor or pdf viewer even need an indicator icon?
[23:46] <elfy> ok - so clementine show's up in the panel - and in notification
[23:46] <elfy> ali1234: I don't know :) 
[23:47] <elfy> I'm just basing my thoughts/comments on ochosi's why is nothing showing :)
[23:47] <ali1234> nothing is showing cos you didn't apply the workaround :)
[23:47] <elfy> logged out - but then again I know for sure I did in the last install and nothing did then either
[23:49] <elfy> perhaps there is a bit of language difference here 
[23:58] <ali1234> i'm guessing you're not very familiar with indicators and how they work?
[23:58] <ali1234> they aren't a direct replacement for the notification area - they work very differently
[23:59] <elfy> not really - you need to remember I'm just this guy ali1234 :)
[23:59] <ali1234> unlike with notification area, processes can't put an indicator into the indicator area directly