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| AlanBell | hi all | 18:01 |
|---|---|---|
| AlanBell | #startmeeting IRC team | 18:01 |
| meetingology | Meeting started Wed Jan 22 18:01:49 2014 UTC. The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. | 18:01 |
| meetingology | Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired | 18:01 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: | ||
| IdleOne | o/ | 18:02 |
| AlanBell | hi all | 18:03 |
| AlanBell | so, this is the first meeting of the new IRCC | 18:03 |
| IdleOne | *applause* | 18:03 |
| AlanBell | I have been rather frantic and not much on IRC over the last month or so, but hopefully things will settle down a bit | 18:03 |
| rww_elsewhere | o/ | 18:03 |
| rww_elsewhere | Congrats new IRCC people :) | 18:03 |
| hggdh | ~\o | 18:03 |
| AlanBell | the agenda is here, but I don't promise to stick to it :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda | 18:04 |
| AlanBell | #topic Review last meetings action items | 18:04 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: Review last meetings action items | ||
| AlanBell | the main actions from the last meeting were to make sure that the election happened, which it did \o/ | 18:04 |
| AlanBell | #topic chair of the IRCC | 18:05 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: chair of the IRCC | ||
| AlanBell | first item of business for the new year is for the IRCC to decide who is going to be the chair going forward | 18:05 |
| * hggdh proposes AlanBell | 18:05 | |
| IdleOne | haha | 18:05 |
| * hggdh hides for a while | 18:06 | |
| AlanBell | it isn't an unchangeable position, we can flip it about as much as we like, I have been chair for the last couple of years, I am more than happy to hand over to someone else | 18:06 |
| AlanBell | what it involves is sorting out meeting times, running the meeting itself and having a casting vote | 18:06 |
| AlanBell | personally I think IdleOne has a bit more availability than me at the moment and he just volunteered to chair the next 5 meetings \o/ | 18:07 |
| hggdh | well, then, given that IdleOne has pretty much done the first one, I also vote for him | 18:07 |
| IdleOne | I did do that huh | 18:07 |
| rww_elsewhere | casting vote would only come into effect because of abstaining, right? since there's an odd number of people | 18:08 |
| AlanBell | rww_elsewhere: yeah, someone abstaining or absent | 18:08 |
| hggdh | casting vote should only come up on draws | 18:08 |
| IdleOne | alright, I'll be chair for the next 5 meetings. We can then change chair or I'll keep on sitting | 18:08 |
| rww_elsewhere | okay, so not more power than I trust IdleOne with >:D | 18:09 |
| AlanBell | it hasn't been used in the last two years, we have come to a consensus | 18:09 |
| hggdh | after, we can as well rotate it | 18:10 |
| AlanBell | yup, can be rotated, or moved on to someone else for a bit | 18:10 |
| AlanBell | ok, so I think we agree on that going forward | 18:10 |
| IdleOne | agreed | 18:10 |
| hggdh | aye | 18:10 |
| AlanBell | #agreed Idleone to be the chair of the IRCC | 18:11 |
| * IdleOne places crown on his own head because nobody else is worthy of doing it. | 18:11 | |
| AlanBell | heh | 18:11 |
| rww_elsewhere | mock the enthroned | 18:12 |
| AlanBell | we have no items in the tracker or bugs, so lets move on to operator applicants . . . | 18:12 |
| AlanBell | #topic Operator Applicants | 18:12 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: Operator Applicants | ||
| AlanBell | there is one deactivated account in a queue, I will just get rid of that one | 18:13 |
| AlanBell | lets start with rww_elsewhere who has applied for ops in #ubuntu I think | 18:14 |
| rww_elsewhere | #ubuntu, #ubuntu-offtopic, and #ubuntu-ops, iirc | 18:14 |
| AlanBell | yeah, just running my little script | 18:14 |
| rww_elsewhere | (first two are re-applications for privs I previously had, #ubuntu-ops would be new) | 18:14 |
| AlanBell | rww_elsewhere: were you an operator in those channels for more than 12 months? | 18:16 |
| rww_elsewhere | hrm | 18:16 |
| * rww_elsewhere pulls logs from google, sec | 18:16 | |
| rww_elsewhere | AlanBell: I suspect so, yes. | 18:18 |
| rww_elsewhere | don't have definite numbers though, I'm at work | 18:19 |
| AlanBell | yeah, I am pretty sure it was over a year too | 18:19 |
| IdleOne | same here | 18:19 |
| AlanBell | that is the criteria for ops in -ops so I just wanted to check we were following our own rules on that | 18:19 |
| AlanBell | #vote approve rww for ops in #ubuntu #ubuntu-offtopic and #ubuntu-ops | 18:20 |
| meetingology | Please vote on: approve rww for ops in #ubuntu #ubuntu-offtopic and #ubuntu-ops | 18:20 |
| meetingology | Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) | 18:20 |
| AlanBell | +1 | 18:20 |
| meetingology | +1 received from AlanBell | 18:20 |
| hggdh | +1 | 18:20 |
| meetingology | +1 received from hggdh | 18:20 |
| IdleOne | +1 for all 3 channels | 18:20 |
| meetingology | +1 for all 3 channels received from IdleOne | 18:20 |
| hggdh | hrumph. For the record, my +1 is for all 3 channels | 18:20 |
| AlanBell | I think that is all of us for the moment, pici is a bit busy and Tm_T isn't with us right now | 18:21 |
| AlanBell | #endvote | 18:21 |
| meetingology | Voting ended on: approve rww for ops in #ubuntu #ubuntu-offtopic and #ubuntu-ops | 18:21 |
| meetingology | Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 | 18:21 |
| meetingology | Motion carried | 18:21 |
| IdleOne | Welcome back to the team rww_elsewhere :) | 18:21 |
| AlanBell | yay, we will sort out the chanserv bits shortly rww_elsewhere | 18:21 |
| rww_elsewhere | thank you :) | 18:21 |
| hggdh | :-) | 18:21 |
| AlanBell | ok, next application is phunyguy who has applied for ops in #ubuntu-offtopic | 18:22 |
| AlanBell | https://launchpad.net/~robtongue | 18:22 |
| AlanBell | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phunyguy | 18:23 |
| rww_elsewhere | I didn't get around to editing the wiki, but I strongly support this application. phunyguy's relatively sensible, and gets on well with all of #u-ot. | 18:23 |
| AlanBell | I agree, phunyguy has been around for a long time, gets on with people and is helpful | 18:24 |
| rww_elsewhere | good at catalyzing too, which is something we need more of in there | 18:24 |
| AlanBell | any other comments before a vote? | 18:24 |
| IdleOne | I'm good to go | 18:25 |
| Tm_T | hi sitting in a car with poor connection | 18:25 |
| AlanBell | #vote phunyguy for ops in #ubuntu-offtopic | 18:25 |
| meetingology | Please vote on: phunyguy for ops in #ubuntu-offtopic | 18:25 |
| meetingology | Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) | 18:25 |
| AlanBell | #voters Tm_T AlanBell Pici IdleOne hggdh | 18:25 |
| meetingology | Current voters: AlanBell IdleOne Pici Tm_T hggdh | 18:25 |
| AlanBell | +1 from me | 18:25 |
| meetingology | +1 from me received from AlanBell | 18:25 |
| hggdh | +1 | 18:25 |
| meetingology | +1 received from hggdh | 18:25 |
| IdleOne | +1 | 18:25 |
| meetingology | +1 received from IdleOne | 18:25 |
| Tm_T | +1 | 18:26 |
| meetingology | +1 received from Tm_T | 18:26 |
| AlanBell | #endvote | 18:26 |
| meetingology | Voting ended on: phunyguy for ops in #ubuntu-offtopic | 18:26 |
| meetingology | Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 | 18:26 |
| meetingology | Motion carried | 18:26 |
| IdleOne | Congrats phunyguy and welcome to the ops team :) | 18:27 |
| hggdh | phunyguy: welcome :-) | 18:27 |
| AlanBell | now rww is basically reactivating a previously held membership of the team, but phunyguy is new to this so needs a bit of mentoring and help with the chanserv use etc | 18:27 |
| AlanBell | and I think rww would make a most excellent mentor | 18:28 |
| IdleOne | +1 | 18:28 |
| hggdh | indeed. rww, would you please? | 18:28 |
| rww_elsewhere | this is an evil plot to make me more sensible and catalytic, isn't it... :P | 18:28 |
| IdleOne | we're not asking. | 18:28 |
| rww_elsewhere | yes, I would love to :) | 18:28 |
| IdleOne | :) | 18:28 |
| AlanBell | great, thanks rww_elsewhere | 18:28 |
| hggdh | :-) | 18:28 |
| IdleOne | thanks rww | 18:28 |
| Tm_T | danke | 18:28 |
| IdleOne | I'll sort out the relevant ACL entries soon. | 18:30 |
| AlanBell | ok, moving on, we have no membership applications | 18:30 |
| AlanBell | there is a topic "Globally enable ubottu's ban removal feature." but I am not sure what the background to that is | 18:31 |
| AlanBell | unit193 added it | 18:31 |
| AlanBell | it is probably a good suggestion, but I am not sure we are ready to discuss it right now without unit193 in the channel to propose it | 18:32 |
| AlanBell | #topic any other business | 18:33 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: any other business | ||
| AlanBell | does anyone have anything else they would like to discuss at this point? | 18:33 |
| AlanBell | things we should bring up at the next meeting perhaps? | 18:33 |
| AlanBell | anything from the open letter that was sent to the list back in November that we should be addressing now? | 18:33 |
| jussi | yeah. | 18:34 |
| hggdh | IdleOne suggested a review of the !ops for -devel. We, perhaps should review all of them for applicability | 18:34 |
| IdleOne | I'll let jussi go ahead | 18:34 |
| rww_elsewhere | I'd recommend (possibly temporarily) broadening the list, since we have a couple of trolls who target it specifically because most of can't access it. I am not volunteering to be added to that ops list. | 18:35 |
| jussi | I was thinking about it - perhaps we should make it a bit clearer what actions are/can be taken against an operator by the IRCC, so that people who have a complaint can see that things dont just get swept under the carpet, but are actually dealt with properly. | 18:35 |
| rww_elsewhere | target that channel * most of us can't op it * | 18:35 |
| hggdh | jussi: don't we describe the possible actions against an abusive ops? | 18:36 |
| rww_elsewhere | (sorry, lag. back to jussi) | 18:36 |
| IdleOne | jussi: what sort of actions did you have in mind? | 18:36 |
| AlanBell | jussi: "Appointing or recalling IRC operators or determining criteria by which they are appointed." is something we can do | 18:37 |
| hggdh | or are we missing more visibility? | 18:37 |
| jussi | IdleOne: it could range from simply saying, ok, misdemeanor, youve a warning, to a time based disqualification from operating in that channel/all channels or complete removal of ops | 18:38 |
| AlanBell | generally the aim is more towards conflict resolution rather than sanctions for operators | 18:38 |
| rww_elsewhere | and conflict resolution is mostly internal to minimize drama, so we can't really demonstrate it publicly | 18:38 |
| jussi | AlanBell: yes, I understand that, but by not having sanctions at all, mean that basically, not much happens if there is an issue, and there is no "paper trail" | 18:39 |
| hggdh | but some sort of public resolution might be needed, I think | 18:39 |
| IdleOne | I'm not comfortable with listing possible sanctions to ops for the world to see. I think it would give problem users more ammunition to use. | 18:40 |
| jussi | IdleOne: we list possible actions to users, why not to operators? | 18:41 |
| rww_elsewhere | on the other hand, a lack of details is ammunition for them to use that we're a cabal | 18:41 |
| AlanBell | yeah, I am not sure about the helpfulness of time based bans on operators | 18:41 |
| hggdh | but we should at least acknowlege there are sanctions for ops | 18:41 |
| IdleOne | jussi, rww: both good points | 18:41 |
| AlanBell | we have the sanction of removing operators, we can also overturn an operator decision | 18:41 |
| AlanBell | both of which are rare but not totally unheard of | 18:42 |
| rww_elsewhere | assuming those are both listed somewhere, perhaps add the sanction of temporarily suspending op privileges for ops that are burned out and acting problematically accordingly | 18:42 |
| rww_elsewhere | not that we'd necessarily need it, but it might be a useful middle ground between those two | 18:42 |
| hggdh | and, given a complaint, we should publicly announce its resolution (either as "dispute resolved between the parts", or as "declined", or as "whatever done") | 18:42 |
| jussi | AlanBell: so what Im seeking is discussion on what could be some more detail/other things there, (if any at all). | 18:43 |
| hggdh | I agree with AlanBell that an internal conflict resolution should not be made public; but some sort of public announcement should be done | 18:43 |
| hggdh | may I propose we follow on that via email to the ML? | 18:44 |
| jussi | yes, I dont think the details need to be made public either, that was not my point | 18:44 |
| hggdh | jussi: yes, I follow you, and agree on at least announcing the result. This is fair. | 18:45 |
| AlanBell | I think we need to look back at some examples, and what we might have announced under that principal | 18:46 |
| AlanBell | so yeah, further discussion on the mailing list and in -irc and/or -ops-team would be good on this topic I think | 18:46 |
| hggdh | agree. One of the points jussi brought up is we do not list how we can sanction ops, but we list how we can sanction users. Not balanced | 18:46 |
| AlanBell | well we do, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/Charter | 18:47 |
| AlanBell | it is just a short list :) | 18:47 |
| hggdh | well, OK, I stand corrected :-) | 18:48 |
| jussi | btw, as a quick additional thing, don't we think its time to remove these: | 18:48 |
| jussi | The Community Council will have a member sit on the IRC Council until June 2010. This will be a temporary seat. This member will offer advice, mentor and report back to the Community council. This member shall not have a casting vote. | 18:48 |
| jussi | The Community Council will review the state of the IRC Council in June 2010 and act upon its review if it feels necessary. | 18:48 |
| AlanBell | yeah, probably is redundant now, we can trim that | 18:48 |
| hggdh | rather old indeed | 18:49 |
| AlanBell | ok, another topic, when should we have IRC team meetings like this one? | 18:49 |
| AlanBell | this is a wednesday 18:00 meeting, we had been meeting on Sunday evenings, but that was getting increasingly inconvenient for people | 18:49 |
| jussi | seems the evenins eu time is good for most, excpt our asian/aussie friends | 18:50 |
| IdleOne | 1800 UTC makes it difficult for those on the American continent with actual real life things to do | 18:50 |
| AlanBell | IdleOne as chair gets to decide the time of the next meeting, but it would be good to pick a time that is good for more people | 18:50 |
| hggdh | as far as I am concerned,it is good for me (translates to 1200 CST) | 18:50 |
| IdleOne | agreed | 18:50 |
| IdleOne | this time also works for me. but as we saw with Pici he got called into a meeting at work. | 18:51 |
| IdleOne | Tm_T: this time work for you? | 18:51 |
| IdleOne | I guess I can figure out what works best for everyone later | 18:52 |
| AlanBell | yeah, maybe I will try and run some timestamp stats on -ops to see when people are talkative | 18:52 |
| IdleOne | RE -devel: we can do the -devel ops factoid fix behind the scenes, ask for volunteers from the ops pool. | 18:53 |
| AlanBell | ok, lets wrap this meeting up now, unless anyone has any extra items? | 18:53 |
| hggdh | nope | 18:53 |
| IdleOne | I'm good. | 18:53 |
| AlanBell | #endmeeting | 18:53 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ||
| meetingology | Meeting ended Wed Jan 22 18:53:48 2014 UTC. | 18:53 |
| meetingology | Minutes (wiki): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-01-22-18.01.moin.txt | 18:53 |
| meetingology | Minutes (html): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-01-22-18.01.html | 18:53 |
| AlanBell | thanks all | 18:54 |
| IdleOne | thank you everybody for showing up :) | 18:54 |
| AlanBell | and IdleOne now has the chair | 18:54 |
| AlanBell | (it is still warm) | 18:54 |
| hggdh | jussi: care to spearhead on what you asked (on the ML)? | 18:54 |
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