=== freeflying_away is now known as freeflying === freeflying is now known as freeflying_away === freeflying_away is now known as freeflying === freeflying is now known as freeflying_away === freeflying_away is now known as freeflying === freeflying is now known as freeflying_away === freeflying_away is now known as freeflying === doko_ is now known as doko === dosaboy_ is now known as dosaboy === j_f-f_ is now known as j_f-f === freeflying is now known as freeflying_away === jodh` is now known as jodh [18:01] hi all [18:01] #startmeeting IRC team [18:01] Meeting started Wed Jan 22 18:01:49 2014 UTC. The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [18:01] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: [18:02] o/ [18:03] hi all [18:03] so, this is the first meeting of the new IRCC [18:03] *applause* [18:03] I have been rather frantic and not much on IRC over the last month or so, but hopefully things will settle down a bit [18:03] o/ [18:03] Congrats new IRCC people :) [18:03] ~\o [18:04] the agenda is here, but I don't promise to stick to it :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda [18:04] #topic Review last meetings action items === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: Review last meetings action items [18:04] the main actions from the last meeting were to make sure that the election happened, which it did \o/ [18:05] #topic chair of the IRCC === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: chair of the IRCC [18:05] first item of business for the new year is for the IRCC to decide who is going to be the chair going forward [18:05] * hggdh proposes AlanBell [18:05] haha [18:06] * hggdh hides for a while [18:06] it isn't an unchangeable position, we can flip it about as much as we like, I have been chair for the last couple of years, I am more than happy to hand over to someone else [18:06] what it involves is sorting out meeting times, running the meeting itself and having a casting vote [18:07] personally I think IdleOne has a bit more availability than me at the moment and he just volunteered to chair the next 5 meetings \o/ [18:07] well, then, given that IdleOne has pretty much done the first one, I also vote for him [18:07] I did do that huh [18:08] casting vote would only come into effect because of abstaining, right? since there's an odd number of people [18:08] rww_elsewhere: yeah, someone abstaining or absent [18:08] casting vote should only come up on draws [18:08] alright, I'll be chair for the next 5 meetings. We can then change chair or I'll keep on sitting [18:09] okay, so not more power than I trust IdleOne with >:D [18:09] it hasn't been used in the last two years, we have come to a consensus [18:10] after, we can as well rotate it [18:10] yup, can be rotated, or moved on to someone else for a bit [18:10] ok, so I think we agree on that going forward [18:10] agreed [18:10] aye [18:11] #agreed Idleone to be the chair of the IRCC [18:11] * IdleOne places crown on his own head because nobody else is worthy of doing it. [18:11] heh [18:12] mock the enthroned [18:12] we have no items in the tracker or bugs, so lets move on to operator applicants . . . [18:12] #topic Operator Applicants === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: Operator Applicants [18:13] there is one deactivated account in a queue, I will just get rid of that one [18:14] lets start with rww_elsewhere who has applied for ops in #ubuntu I think [18:14] #ubuntu, #ubuntu-offtopic, and #ubuntu-ops, iirc [18:14] yeah, just running my little script [18:14] (first two are re-applications for privs I previously had, #ubuntu-ops would be new) [18:16] rww_elsewhere: were you an operator in those channels for more than 12 months? [18:16] hrm [18:16] * rww_elsewhere pulls logs from google, sec [18:18] AlanBell: I suspect so, yes. [18:19] don't have definite numbers though, I'm at work [18:19] yeah, I am pretty sure it was over a year too [18:19] same here [18:19] that is the criteria for ops in -ops so I just wanted to check we were following our own rules on that [18:20] #vote approve rww for ops in #ubuntu #ubuntu-offtopic and #ubuntu-ops [18:20] Please vote on: approve rww for ops in #ubuntu #ubuntu-offtopic and #ubuntu-ops [18:20] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) [18:20] +1 [18:20] +1 received from AlanBell [18:20] +1 [18:20] +1 received from hggdh [18:20] +1 for all 3 channels [18:20] +1 for all 3 channels received from IdleOne [18:20] hrumph. For the record, my +1 is for all 3 channels [18:21] I think that is all of us for the moment, pici is a bit busy and Tm_T isn't with us right now [18:21] #endvote [18:21] Voting ended on: approve rww for ops in #ubuntu #ubuntu-offtopic and #ubuntu-ops [18:21] Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 [18:21] Motion carried [18:21] Welcome back to the team rww_elsewhere :) [18:21] yay, we will sort out the chanserv bits shortly rww_elsewhere [18:21] thank you :) [18:21] :-) [18:22] ok, next application is phunyguy who has applied for ops in #ubuntu-offtopic [18:22] https://launchpad.net/~robtongue [18:23] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phunyguy [18:23] I didn't get around to editing the wiki, but I strongly support this application. phunyguy's relatively sensible, and gets on well with all of #u-ot. [18:24] I agree, phunyguy has been around for a long time, gets on with people and is helpful [18:24] good at catalyzing too, which is something we need more of in there [18:24] any other comments before a vote? [18:25] I'm good to go [18:25] hi sitting in a car with poor connection [18:25] #vote phunyguy for ops in #ubuntu-offtopic [18:25] Please vote on: phunyguy for ops in #ubuntu-offtopic [18:25] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) [18:25] #voters Tm_T AlanBell Pici IdleOne hggdh [18:25] Current voters: AlanBell IdleOne Pici Tm_T hggdh [18:25] +1 from me [18:25] +1 from me received from AlanBell [18:25] +1 [18:25] +1 received from hggdh [18:25] +1 [18:25] +1 received from IdleOne [18:26] +1 [18:26] +1 received from Tm_T [18:26] #endvote [18:26] Voting ended on: phunyguy for ops in #ubuntu-offtopic [18:26] Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 [18:26] Motion carried [18:27] Congrats phunyguy and welcome to the ops team :) [18:27] phunyguy: welcome :-) [18:27] now rww is basically reactivating a previously held membership of the team, but phunyguy is new to this so needs a bit of mentoring and help with the chanserv use etc [18:28] and I think rww would make a most excellent mentor [18:28] +1 [18:28] indeed. rww, would you please? [18:28] this is an evil plot to make me more sensible and catalytic, isn't it... :P [18:28] we're not asking. [18:28] yes, I would love to :) [18:28] :) [18:28] great, thanks rww_elsewhere [18:28] :-) [18:28] thanks rww [18:28] danke [18:30] I'll sort out the relevant ACL entries soon. [18:30] ok, moving on, we have no membership applications [18:31] there is a topic "Globally enable ubottu's ban removal feature." but I am not sure what the background to that is [18:31] unit193 added it [18:32] it is probably a good suggestion, but I am not sure we are ready to discuss it right now without unit193 in the channel to propose it [18:33] #topic any other business === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: any other business [18:33] does anyone have anything else they would like to discuss at this point? [18:33] things we should bring up at the next meeting perhaps? [18:33] anything from the open letter that was sent to the list back in November that we should be addressing now? [18:34] yeah. [18:34] IdleOne suggested a review of the !ops for -devel. We, perhaps should review all of them for applicability [18:34] I'll let jussi go ahead [18:35] I'd recommend (possibly temporarily) broadening the list, since we have a couple of trolls who target it specifically because most of can't access it. I am not volunteering to be added to that ops list. [18:35] I was thinking about it - perhaps we should make it a bit clearer what actions are/can be taken against an operator by the IRCC, so that people who have a complaint can see that things dont just get swept under the carpet, but are actually dealt with properly. [18:35] target that channel * most of us can't op it * [18:36] jussi: don't we describe the possible actions against an abusive ops? [18:36] (sorry, lag. back to jussi) [18:36] jussi: what sort of actions did you have in mind? [18:37] jussi: "Appointing or recalling IRC operators or determining criteria by which they are appointed." is something we can do [18:37] or are we missing more visibility? [18:38] IdleOne: it could range from simply saying, ok, misdemeanor, youve a warning, to a time based disqualification from operating in that channel/all channels or complete removal of ops [18:38] generally the aim is more towards conflict resolution rather than sanctions for operators [18:38] and conflict resolution is mostly internal to minimize drama, so we can't really demonstrate it publicly [18:39] AlanBell: yes, I understand that, but by not having sanctions at all, mean that basically, not much happens if there is an issue, and there is no "paper trail" [18:39] but some sort of public resolution might be needed, I think [18:40] I'm not comfortable with listing possible sanctions to ops for the world to see. I think it would give problem users more ammunition to use. [18:41] IdleOne: we list possible actions to users, why not to operators? [18:41] on the other hand, a lack of details is ammunition for them to use that we're a cabal [18:41] yeah, I am not sure about the helpfulness of time based bans on operators [18:41] but we should at least acknowlege there are sanctions for ops [18:41] jussi, rww: both good points [18:41] we have the sanction of removing operators, we can also overturn an operator decision [18:42] both of which are rare but not totally unheard of [18:42] assuming those are both listed somewhere, perhaps add the sanction of temporarily suspending op privileges for ops that are burned out and acting problematically accordingly [18:42] not that we'd necessarily need it, but it might be a useful middle ground between those two [18:42] and, given a complaint, we should publicly announce its resolution (either as "dispute resolved between the parts", or as "declined", or as "whatever done") [18:43] AlanBell: so what Im seeking is discussion on what could be some more detail/other things there, (if any at all). [18:43] I agree with AlanBell that an internal conflict resolution should not be made public; but some sort of public announcement should be done [18:44] may I propose we follow on that via email to the ML? [18:44] yes, I dont think the details need to be made public either, that was not my point [18:45] jussi: yes, I follow you, and agree on at least announcing the result. This is fair. [18:46] I think we need to look back at some examples, and what we might have announced under that principal [18:46] so yeah, further discussion on the mailing list and in -irc and/or -ops-team would be good on this topic I think [18:46] agree. One of the points jussi brought up is we do not list how we can sanction ops, but we list how we can sanction users. Not balanced [18:47] well we do, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/Charter [18:47] it is just a short list :) [18:48] well, OK, I stand corrected :-) [18:48] btw, as a quick additional thing, don't we think its time to remove these: [18:48] The Community Council will have a member sit on the IRC Council until June 2010. This will be a temporary seat. This member will offer advice, mentor and report back to the Community council. This member shall not have a casting vote. [18:48] The Community Council will review the state of the IRC Council in June 2010 and act upon its review if it feels necessary. [18:48] yeah, probably is redundant now, we can trim that [18:49] rather old indeed [18:49] ok, another topic, when should we have IRC team meetings like this one? [18:49] this is a wednesday 18:00 meeting, we had been meeting on Sunday evenings, but that was getting increasingly inconvenient for people [18:50] seems the evenins eu time is good for most, excpt our asian/aussie friends [18:50] 1800 UTC makes it difficult for those on the American continent with actual real life things to do [18:50] IdleOne as chair gets to decide the time of the next meeting, but it would be good to pick a time that is good for more people [18:50] as far as I am concerned,it is good for me (translates to 1200 CST) [18:50] agreed [18:51] this time also works for me. but as we saw with Pici he got called into a meeting at work. [18:51] Tm_T: this time work for you? [18:52] I guess I can figure out what works best for everyone later [18:52] yeah, maybe I will try and run some timestamp stats on -ops to see when people are talkative [18:53] RE -devel: we can do the -devel ops factoid fix behind the scenes, ask for volunteers from the ops pool. [18:53] ok, lets wrap this meeting up now, unless anyone has any extra items? [18:53] nope [18:53] I'm good. [18:53] #endmeeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [18:53] Meeting ended Wed Jan 22 18:53:48 2014 UTC. [18:53] Minutes (wiki): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-01-22-18.01.moin.txt [18:53] Minutes (html): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-01-22-18.01.html [18:54] thanks all [18:54] thank you everybody for showing up :) [18:54] and IdleOne now has the chair [18:54] (it is still warm) [18:54] jussi: care to spearhead on what you asked (on the ML)? === fire is now known as Guest63129 === baba is now known as fire_ === jackson is now known as Guest4739 === Ursinha_ is now known as Ursinha === kyleN is now known as kyleN-afk === bazhang_ is now known as bazhang