[00:00] <thomi> slangasek: yeah, we can't run all the tests at MP time, it takes waaaaay too long
[00:00] <slangasek> infrastructure issues that we can solve by throwing 10,000 emulators at it?
[00:00] <thomi> so we do it pre-release
[00:00] <slangasek> right... but then that's not continuous integration
[00:00] <thomi> slangasek: I don't know, sorry. veebers, can you provide more details maybe
[00:00] <slangasek> it's.. integration by parts
[00:00] <thomi> slangasek: yeah
[00:00] <slangasek> (or, insert your preferred corny calculus joke here)
[00:01] <thomi> slangasek: we've noticed the problems around the way we used to release things, we're being much more rigerous, and part of that is not releasing trunk after every merge
[00:02] <slangasek> hmmm
[00:02] <thomi> so we'll try this, and if it solves our problem, then we'll run with it. Otherwise we'll try something else
[00:02] <slangasek> that seems like a perverse outcome to me; I want the rigor, without reduction in release frequency ;)
[00:03] <thomi> yeah, me too, but it's just not practical in this instance
[00:29] <veebers> Hi thomi, slangasek: The infrastructure regarding the release is the jenkins jobs that do the process are erroring
[00:30] <veebers> slangasek: throwing emulators would potentially assist in the speeds running the tests, so would benefit the release indirectly
[00:30] <slangasek> veebers: anything I can do to help?  Are the right people working on fixing whatever the jenkins problem is?
[00:30] <slangasek> (can you give me a pointer to the exact jenkins failure?)
[00:31] <veebers> we currently run autopilot test suite at MR time, it's running all the touch app acceptance tests that take hours (so we reserve that for the release candidate)
[00:31]  * slangasek nods
[00:32] <veebers> slangasek: Not sure if you can help, it's the CI-Train process which is pretty recent, didrocks is my only point of contact at this point
[00:33] <slangasek> veebers: so do you have visibility on the actual jenkins failure?
[00:34] <veebers> slangasek: just looking now, I believe the actual issue lies with the CI-Train code, not jenkins or canonistack concerns. Link coming right up
[00:34] <veebers> slangasek: this is the latest error: http://162.213.34.102/job/landing-002-1-build/1/console
[00:37] <slangasek> veebers: heh, ok
[00:37] <veebers> slangasek: thanks for the offer. I'll keep you in the loop re: release and potential improvements re: testing speeds and times
[00:38] <slangasek> veebers: I guess this particular blockage will be the focus of quite a lot of attention between now and the end of next week, given the core team sprint that's about to happen :)
[00:39] <slangasek> so I'll cool my heels for now and worry about other things
[00:39] <vthompson> Has anyone with a N4 updated to r143? The OSK doesn't seem to come up.
[00:57] <cwayne> vthompson, known issue, there's some missing packages in the build
[00:57] <cwayne> AIUI, should be fixed in 144
[00:58] <vthompson> cwayne, ok. Thanks for the info!
[00:59] <cwayne> vthompson, no problem!
[04:04] <jose> cyphermox: hey! around?
[04:14] <kornflake-k9> good tut on ho to install on a nexus 7 2012
[04:33] <vic1> Could i get the exact kernel source git tree that was used to generate: trusty-preinstalled-boot-armhf+maguro.img
[08:12] <dholbach> good morning
[08:38] <nhaines> To any of the KitKat porting team in here, congrats on the successful port, even if it does spell the end of support for my phone!
[08:47] <janimo> ogra_, is there a way to add a README directly under cdimage.../current, to describe the various img and zip fileswhich image
[08:47] <janimo> s/which image//
[08:47] <janimo> ogra_, I am writing a wikipage about it, but having it from the horses mouth would guarantee people find it easier
[08:47] <ogra_> yes, but we should rather do it cleanly and add that to the header
[08:48] <janimo> ogra_, the header is fine to, although it has quite some blurb and am not sure people ever read that
[08:48] <ogra_> janimo, btw, i have "rootstock-touch" building a rootfs locally (armhf on x86 only yet, but will add x86 on x86 too)
[08:49] <janimo> ogra_, nice. I got live-build to do it eventually too
[08:49] <ogra_> (using the livecd-rootfs/live-build setup)
[08:49] <ogra_> there is one last issue with the click mirror ... but i'll solve that today
[08:50] <janimo> ogra_, this is what I manages, hopefully yours is more complete though
[08:50] <janimo> https://github.com/janimo/ubuntu-touch-live-build
[08:50] <ogra_> janimo, well, if you write a wiki you can add "read the header at ..." :)
[08:50] <ogra_> not complete at all yet, but io plan to complete is :)
[08:50] <ogra_> *it
[08:51] <janimo> ogra_, indeed, that is why I wanted it somewhere read-only and more visible, since the wikipages are prone to deletion and get rarely read :)
[08:51] <janimo> ogra_, so where can that header be modified?
[08:51] <ogra_> i use the original config, no chnages
[08:51] <ogra_> janimo, cdimage tree
[08:52] <ogra_> (you seem to fiddle with the live-build config in yours
[08:52] <ogra_> )
[08:53] <janimo> ogra_, I found no way to tell it to cross-build for arm
[08:53] <janimo> to have the ARCH env var get used
[08:53] <ogra_> qemu-arm-static
[08:54] <ogra_> in stacked chroots
[08:54] <janimo> ogra_, I added that later, so maybe the initial one is no longer needed indeed
[08:54] <janimo> ogra_, actually I had to pass -a $ARCH when building i386 on amd64
[08:54] <janimo> that works withouth qemu
[08:54] <janimo> but needed arch or it defaulted to ubuntu/amd64
[08:55] <ogra_> well, your outer chroot should already use qemu-arm-static ...
[08:55] <ogra_> LB_BOOTSTRAP_QEMU_STATIC only copies the binary around
[08:55] <ogra_> it doesnt install the package
[08:55] <janimo> ogra_, you mean running the build script inside a manually entered chroot?
[08:56] <ogra_> wekll, i have my script set up a qemu.arm-static chroot ... install livecd-rootfs and run the build inside that
[08:56] <ogra_> (same setup that we have on the buildds)
[08:57] <janimo> ogra_, I just used live-builds poorly documented qemu build abilities. I had not tested the resulting image yet
[08:57] <janimo> so no nested chroots, or at least not obvious when running the script
[08:58] <ogra_> right
[08:58] <ogra_> i want the same env the buildd has ...
[08:59] <ogra_> anyway, i hope to integrate that later with stephanes system-image creation tool once he has a community variant
[08:59] <ogra_> so that you can get a complete image
[09:06] <ogra_> janimo, btw, you want to change the text around line 739 in lib/cdimage/tree.py
[09:08] <janimo> ogra_, yes, I saw that html inside python and ran away for a while
[09:08] <janimo> to gather courage
[09:08] <ogra_> haha
[09:08] <janimo> I was expecting text files being catted to the header is good shell tradition :)
[09:09] <ogra_> well, thanks to your pushing for a fully open cdimage tree we ended up with a complete python rewrite :)
[09:10] <ogra_> no more shell in cdimage
[09:42] <Cimi> didrocks, ciao didier :)
[09:42] <Cimi> didrocks, was wondering what you want to be tested now for the snap decisions
[09:45]  * OttOmanTR still waiting to see the first Ubuntu Touch phone :)
[09:49] <cff> How do I go back to the previous activity in Ubuntu Touch ?
[09:50] <cff> like in Android back button (software/hardware)
[09:50] <cff> OttOmanTR: What are the plans for an Ubuntu Touch phone ?
[09:50] <cff> OttOmanTR: this year?
[09:50] <ogra_> cff, there should be a back button in the toolbar of the app ... swipe from the bottom
[09:51] <ogra_> if you want to switch apps, swipe from the right ... ubuntu doesnt have that "one back button for all" concept android has
[10:02] <Cimi> MacSlow, hey man
[10:03] <Cimi> how would you test snap decisions for wifi?
[10:06] <MacSlow> Cimi, you mean the password-entry?
[10:07] <Cimi> MacSlow, I believe so
[10:07] <Cimi> MacSlow, waiting didrocks
[10:07] <OttOmanTR> ogra_: There are multi-window attempts in Android but Android dev says Android UI isn't designed to be multi-window supported. I wonder how Android legacy is in Ubuntu Touch. What about Multi-Window?
[10:08] <MacSlow> Cimi, try connecting to another hotspot
[10:08] <Cimi> MacSlow, I mean, automated tests
[10:09] <Cimi> MacSlow, autopilot
[10:09] <didrocks> (back from meetings)
[10:09] <didrocks> Cimi: yeah, what's up?
[10:09] <Cimi> didrocks, I wanted to mak you guys happy and test what needed to be tested
[10:09] <didrocks> Cimi: with nested Mir, the snap decision for network didn't show
[10:09] <didrocks> (and the unity8 AP tests, AFAIK were all passing)
[10:10] <didrocks> so we need a test ensuring that a snap decision will always be shown, even with this nested Mir
[10:10] <Cimi> didrocks, we need an autopilot test for that?
[10:10] <Cimi> ok
[10:10] <Cimi> MacSlow, ^
[10:10] <Cimi> MacSlow, I can do it, if you guide me
[10:10] <didrocks> good luck guys ;)
[10:12] <MacSlow> Cimi, you'd need to port the examples/sd-example-password-entry.py from lp:unity-notifications to an AP-test
[10:12] <Cimi> MacSlow, ok
[10:37] <Mirv> ricmm_: we got a retrace from a maguro crash leading to qtubuntu initially, bug #1271879
[11:01] <ricmm_> Mirv: can you get the runenv from that?
[11:01] <ricmm_> envs and pid space
[11:01] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:01] <ricmm> morning
[11:01] <ogra_> moaning
[11:10] <davmor2> ogra_: oh cheer up it can't be all that bad ;)
[11:10] <ogra_> :)
[11:45] <Mirv> psivaa: do you know which kind of runenv ricm ^ is after? (regarding http://q-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/job/trusty-touch-maguro-smoke-ubuntu-clock-app-autopilot/146/artifact/clientlogs/)
[11:52] <psivaa> Mirv: looking
[11:52] <Mirv> I have seen the runenv mentioned before but I've never really learned what kind of stuff people want they want that :)
[11:56] <psivaa> Mirv: ricmm: i have the device where that crash occurred, if you could let me know what i should do to get the envs and pid space, i could get tat
[11:56] <psivaa> s/tat/that
[12:02] <ybon> I've 404 when browsing documentation, espacially the "implementation examples", like this one: http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.10/qml/mobile/qml-ubuntu-components0-textfield.html
[12:03] <ybon> Anyone know what to change in the URL to get the expected content?
[12:03] <ybon> I've tried to switch to 13.10 or 14.04 but same
[12:03] <ogra_> dpm, ^^
[12:06] <Mirv> psivaa: thanks, let's see and learn what ricmm would want from there. and if it's not already in the artifact collection, maybe could be added.
[12:07] <psivaa> Mirv: ack
[12:20] <davmor2> ybon: remove the ubuntu-12.10 completely
[12:21] <davmor2> ybon: http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-1.0/ is how the api for qml starts for me
[12:22] <davmor2> ybon: http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-1.0/Ubuntu.Components.TextField/
[12:22] <ybon> yay, thanks davmor2 :)
[12:22] <davmor2> ybon: if you saved a bookmark maybe they updated the site since then and your path is nolonger correct
[12:22] <ybon> nope
[12:22] <ybon> it's from the bottom of this page: http://design.ubuntu.com/apps/building-blocks/text-field
[12:24] <davmor2> ybon: ah then it is the bookmark that design used which possibly worked till they updated the site
[12:24] <ybon> possibly yep :)
[12:26] <davmor2> ybon: your best bet is to look on developer.ubuntu.com when you see links like that now there is a search box so you can just type in the TextField and it should just appear :)
[12:27] <ybon> ah, nice tip, thanks :)
[12:45] <tsdgeos> mardy: ping
[12:58] <mardy> tsdgeos: hi!
[13:13] <ybon> Seems that if I put two Action in Page.actions, qmlscene crashes (when using from QT Creator at least). Anyone has noticed this?
[13:19] <Laney> how can I click an option in an ItemSelector with autopilot?
[13:19] <Laney> I've clicked it and made it expand but not sure how to select the one I want
[14:01] <tsdgeos> mardy: i can't login with canonical.com account into google code, can you?
[14:10] <sergiusens> xnox, qmake is not used directly, but QT_INSTALL_QML is
[14:11] <xnox> sergiusens: can you show me where QT_INSTALL_QML variable is used.
[14:12] <xnox> ?
[14:12] <xnox> sergiusens: or how.
[14:12] <sergiusens> xnox, hmmm, right, doesn't seem to be the case here; was just inferring since all these apps have this trick and it is used for the install path
[14:13] <xnox> sergiusens: maybe i'm missing something, but it compiles and installs correctly without that variable.
[14:13] <xnox> sergiusens: here is cross-compile build-log http://paste.ubuntu.com/6803096/
[14:14] <sergiusens> xnox, this will actually allow me to cross compile as click, so I am all for it :-)
[14:15] <xnox> sergiusens: and all QML stuff is now installed into /usr/share/dialer-app/* I guess also in preparatation to click conversion ;-)
[14:15] <xnox> sergiusens: yeah, #sdk people were pinging me about it re: cross-compiling in click chroot.
[14:15] <xnox> sergiusens: you really want https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cmake/2.8.12.1-1ubuntu4 however =)
[14:16] <sergiusens> xnox, hmmm, well the one that is click ready is addressbook app,camera, gallery, notes, reminders (and require compilation)
[14:16] <sergiusens> xnox, I want to add the click chroot stuff into click-buddy, was just waiting for the sprint to pester you ;-)
[14:16] <sergiusens> xnox, the build error in your build is not a build error
[14:17] <sergiusens> it's a infra error
[14:18] <sergiusens> xnox, shell seems to have died mid test; let me just retrigger that
[14:18] <xnox> sergiusens: right. another part what i wanted to tackle at the sprint is setting up auto-cross builder to continiously check that things are all.
[14:18] <xnox> ok.
[14:19] <xnox> in terms of not-regressing cross-compilation.
[14:19] <xnox> sergiusens: who shall i pester to get access to any jenkins instances of ours to prototype and launch my own jobs. (just any i386/amd64 workers should be fine)
[14:19] <sergiusens> xnox, well I plan to cross build all the clicks, and it's an agenda item to tackle click building during merges at the sprint with fginther
[14:19] <sergiusens> xnox, that would be fginther
[14:20] <xnox> sergiusens: hm. i think i have slightly different plans.
[14:20] <sergiusens> xnox, like which ones?
[14:20] <xnox> sergiusens: i want to test the archive, and archive-proposed, to make sure the _toolchain_ is not regressing in terms of cross-compiling.
[14:20] <sergiusens> xnox, ah, that's ok; I thought you meant conflicting plans ;-)
[14:20] <xnox> and to do so, i want to trigger throw-away cross-compilations of what's in the archive / current click.
[14:21] <ogra_> cjwatson, so i heard thre is a requirement to roll images with PPAs included for the new CI stuff, have you been involved with that, are there any concepts yet (i assume we will need a new image type or so in cdimage for this)
[14:24] <sergiusens> xnox, sounds good to me
[14:25] <cjwatson> ogra_: first I've heard of it
[14:25] <ogra_> cjwatson, ok, probably a topic for next week then
[14:25] <cjwatson> ogra_: or, well, that's not quite true, I think it was mentioned at some point at the client sprint, but no work has been done on it
[14:26] <ogra_> k
[14:26] <cjwatson> ogra_: I hope to make progress next week on the master side of moving livefs building into Launchpad (the slave side is at least theoretically done and in the launchpad-buildd version that's about to be deployed) at the sprint - I think that should help
[14:27] <cjwatson> ogra_: indeed I think that's a requirement
[14:27] <ogra_> yeah
[14:27] <cjwatson> we've pretty much designed it, just have a pile of database patches and code to write
[14:27] <cjwatson> I'm rooming with wgrant which should help ;-)
[14:27] <ogra_> the plan is obviously to have images built from CI PPAs so they are close to identical to what we ship
[14:27] <ogra_> heh
[14:28] <ogra_> which i guess means you want an output path per image in this case or some such
[14:29] <ogra_> where utah then can pull from
[14:42] <aquarius> kalikiana, ping
[14:47] <kalikiana> aquarius: pong
[14:47] <aquarius> kalikiana, I am having weird failures with indexes in u1db-qml. Do you have a few to help me out?
[14:48] <kalikiana> aquarius: shoot
[14:49] <aquarius> kalikiana, see http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6803263/
[14:49] <mardy> tsdgeos: never tried, I use my personal account
[14:49] <aquarius> kalikiana, indexes don't seem to work on top-level fields in the document.
[14:50] <tsdgeos> mardy: ok, i guess i use my personal one too for that index range patch
[14:50] <aquarius> kalikiana, the examples show indexing on, say, hello.world.message in a doc that looks like {hello: {world: {message: "Hello"}}} and that works, but indexing on a field at the top level doesn't. Or am I going mad?
[14:51] <aquarius> kalikiana, is there some way I can get debugging information out of u1db-qt so that I can see what it's doing?
[14:51] <mterry> Cimi, heyo
[14:52] <mterry> Cimi, sorry, I thought I mentioned I had solved that problem in yesterday's standup, but it didn't occur to me to check in with you because I didn't know there was a desire to reduce the scope of the test
[14:52] <mardy> tsdgeos: if that bothers you, you can just send me the patch as git formatted patch by email and I'll apply it (there's no need to pass through the issue tracker for such a small change)
[14:52] <mterry> Cimi, so the problem was that the unity8 session wasn't being marked as 'active' by logind, which affects a lot of dbus permission states
[14:52] <tsdgeos> mardy: ok
[14:53] <mterry> Cimi, and seemingly the NM daemon woudn't talk to the session over dbus in this state
[14:53] <Cimi> didrocks, we're talking about issue with nested mir ^
[14:53] <mterry> Cimi, so if we want to properly test that code path, the AP test needs to actually talk to NM
[14:53] <didrocks> so, it seems the valid test wouldn't be the snap decision, but the real network test
[14:54] <didrocks> (as suggested at first)
[14:55] <kalikiana> aquarius: running the example nothing shows up, probably expected. I'm not sure what you mean by top level here
[14:55] <kalikiana> I see db.putDoc({type: "place", placename: inp.text}) here
[14:55] <aquarius> kalikiana, hang on, let me create a more obvious example :)
[14:58] <mterry> Cimi, so your first approach, with dbusmock.  Would that be a proper test?  Or does it mock out the NM daemon?
[15:00] <tsdgeos> mardy: ok, sent you the email, tell me if that's enough for you
[15:01] <tsdgeos> Mirv: https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/qtubuntu-sensors/temporary_open_file/+merge/202874
[15:01] <tsdgeos> tvoss_: ↑↑↑
[15:06] <Cimi> mterry, Wellark said is too complicated now
[15:07] <aquarius> kalikiana, see http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6803336/ for an example. You'll observe that there are two listviews; the one on the left finds documents, the one on the right doesn't. THey both are tied to queries; the queries are tied to indexes; the indexes don't do anything different except that one of the indexes is on a field at the root of the document and one is on a nested field.
[15:08] <mterry> Cimi, well whatever didrocks is happy with is good with me
[15:08] <didrocks> Cimi: well, seems that from what mterry told me, this won't test the failure with current nested more
[15:08] <didrocks> quite easy, ogra_ can provide you a package to enable nested Mir
[15:09] <didrocks> I just want an AP failing in the same or similar case than the one I described with NM
[15:10] <ogra_> didrocks, not from my disk, i would have to build it again
[15:10] <didrocks> ogra_: maybe push that to a ppa for Cimi?
[15:11] <Cimi> ok
[15:13] <Cimi> mterry, how would you test this ^
[15:14] <mterry> Cimi, does NM let you set up mock access points?
[15:14] <Cimi> pitti, ^ ?
[15:14] <tedg> tvoss_, Talking with kenvandine about content-hub with the embedded sources.
[15:14] <kenvandine> trusted sessions
[15:15] <pitti> mterry, Cimi: no, I don't think so
[15:15] <tedg> tvoss_, So it seems that there'll be a second instance of the app running.  Or will there always be one instance.  i.e. it can be embedded or not, but always one.
[15:15] <pitti> mterry: well, dbusmock's NM template obviously does, but not NM itself
[15:15] <mterry> pitti, how do they do tests?  :)
[15:15] <pitti> mterry: upstream does them manually
[15:15] <mterry> guh, sounds awful
[15:15] <pitti> mterry: but I wrote some automated tests using mac80211_hwsim
[15:16] <tvoss_> tedg, there will be a special embedded version of the app running per content-picking operation
[15:16] <pitti> mterry: they are in NM's autopkgtest (and in an upstream bug report)
[15:16] <pitti> mterry: mac80211_hwsim is quite nice for that
[15:16] <mterry> Cimi, didrocks: We could go for a simpler test.  Try to query NM over dbus and see if we get an error or a response of any kind...  let me see which methods have the right permissions to test this
[15:16] <popey> bug 1271963
[15:16] <pitti> mterry: it's great for testing NM itself, but quite a bit too complicated IMHO if you want to test something that talks to NM; mocking NM is easier/faster/more flexible for that
[15:16] <popey> (if anyone can reproduce/confirm)
[15:16] <tedg> tvoss_, So will that version of the app have a different app id?
[15:17] <tedg> I guess it would have to.
[15:17] <mterry> pitti, yeah, but in this case we really kind of want to test NM's policykit permissions are working in normal case
[15:17] <tvoss_> tedg, hmmm, why would it?
[15:17] <tedg> tvoss_, Where is the second Exec line defined to run the app in that mode?
[15:18] <tvoss_> tedg, that would go in the app armor profile and the desktop file entry
[15:18] <tedg> tvoss_, Figured it'd have to be a separate desktop file (or other format), thus a different stanza in hooks.
[15:18] <pitti> mterry: ah; well, you'll need root privileges then, a bunch of dependencies (hostap etc.), and do that setup
[15:18] <pitti> mterry: although that really sounds like it should be tested in NM itself, not in an application..
[15:18] <tvoss_> tedg, my idea was that we should have a special exec line for that in the same desktop file as the app's one
[15:19] <tvoss_> tedg, it really isn't a different app, just a different point of entry to the app
[15:19] <tedg> tvoss_, Seems to me that it'd be simpler as a "second app" in the Click package.  That way the apparmor profile could be different, etc.
[15:19] <mterry> pitti, it's sort of an integration issue.  Like, we enabled nested mode for Mir, which accidentally marked the unity8 session as inactive, which made NM deny us.  So we just want to test somewhere in that stack to avoid this.  We could query logind directly, or try  a similar NM dbus probe or something.  We don't *need* to mock NM on the backend
[15:19] <aquarius> kalikiana, I think this is a bug, unless I'm doing somethnig massively obviously wrong, but I can't work out how to get debugging information. (Also, nothing shows up in index_definitions in the actual sqlite file, even for working indexes?)
[15:19] <tedg> tvoss_, It could call the same executable, but perhaps with different params and different confinement.
[15:20] <tedg> tvoss_, We could for instance not want networking in the content selection case, but want it in the main app.
[15:21] <pitti> mterry: ah, I see
[15:21] <tedg> tvoss_, This is basically what we're looking at doing for the infographic-visualizer case.  So you could potentially have an app and visualizer in the same click package even though the visualizer would be far more restricted.
[15:21] <tvoss_> tedg, we do agree about the individual steps :) But I think it's still the same app and thus we should just have a section in the desktop file, something like [Content Picking]
[15:21] <pitti> mterry: well, if you want an integration test between app, mir, NM, and polkit, then mac80211_hwsim indeed sounds nice
[15:21] <mterry> Cimi, didrocks: the simplest test would be to just query logind and see if the session is active...
[15:22] <mterry> Cimi, didrocks: the simplest test would be to just query logind and see if the session is active...
[15:22] <pitti> mterry: or more appropriately, calling pkcheck with the privilege you want?
[15:22] <Cimi> mterry, I'm not practical at all of those things...
[15:22] <mterry> pitti, ah...  I forgot about pkcheck
[15:22] <pitti> mterry: (don't assume logind or anything which is an implementation detail)
[15:22] <tvoss_> tedg, or [Infographic]
[15:23] <kalikiana> aquarius: hmm I would expect ["toplevelfield"] there in the second index… I played a bit with the values just now, and it feels like a non-obvious bug is somwhere there - you won't see them in sqlite because it's all in qt data structures only – now there is a bug that *may* be related but I'm not certain if this is the same thing
[15:23] <kalikiana> https://bugs.launchpad.net/u1db-qt/+bug/1266478 – wrt debugging I wish there was a way, but I don't know what a good debugging feature would look like when it comes to queries/ indexing; if you have any user-side ideas I'd love to brainstorm because it could help fix bugs quicker
[15:23] <tedg> tvoss_, At least with infographic we want drastically different confinement, so I don't think that one makes sense.  Content selection is fine, I like the separate App ID better, but don't see a huge difference.
[15:24] <tedg> tvoss_, But, perhaps more importantly, who are you expecting to parse that desktop file :-)
[15:24]  * tedg hides
[15:24] <aquarius> kalikiana, also, we're not returning the contents of the  document; we're only returning the fields that are in the index.
[15:24] <aquarius> kalikiana, which means that I have to index eveything, which is really wasteful :(
[15:25] <aquarius> kalikiana, also also, if you store everything in qt data structures then what does "create: true" do? And other u1db apps not using QML can't read the same database!
[15:25] <tvoss_> tedg, why does a different confinement scenario require modelling it as a different app? I'm a bit confused about that
[15:25] <aquarius> kalikiana, I'll file a bug about this indexing thing.
[15:25] <mterry> Cimi, should be something like this:
[15:25] <mterry> pkcheck --action-id org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-network --process $$
[15:25] <tvoss_> @parsing: I think ual is the system's point of entry to that whole world ... so I would say it should live there
[15:26] <mterry> Cimi, if that command succeeds, we're good
[15:26] <kalikiana> aquarius: I've recently worked to improve the Synchronizer.sync_output which collects different "messages" on what happens or doesn't happen - I wonder if this would also be a way for query debugging. not sure if you've seen that api
[15:26] <tedg> tvoss_, Because the apparmor profile's name is the appid.  I guess we could create "$(appid)-profile" but that would require changing the apparmor tools to look into the desktop file to decide what profiles to generate.
[15:27] <tedg> tvoss_, Had a feeling that was your answer :-)
[15:27] <tvoss_> tedg, I actually like the appid-profile proposal
[15:27] <tvoss_> jdstrand, mdeslaur ^
[15:27] <jdstrand> fyi, a click package can have two apps in it
[15:27] <jdstrand> pkgname_appname_version
[15:27] <jdstrand> that is the APP_ID
[15:27] <tedg> tvoss_, What it breaks is that currently the different click hooks are independent, this would make the apparmor hook work with the entire manifest.
[15:27] <jdstrand> the appname is the name of the hook
[15:28] <jdstrand> or rather, the a key in the hooks db
[15:28] <jdstrand> hooks: {
[15:28] <jdstrand>   appname1: ...
[15:28] <jdstrand>     appname2: ...
[15:28] <kalikiana> aquarius: "everything" here is indexing/query results only; create:true decides if you want to add documents that don't exist, if it's false they won't be added
[15:28] <jdstrand> whoops
[15:28] <jdstrand> hooks: {
[15:28] <jdstrand>   appname1: {}
[15:28] <jdstrand>   appname2: {}
[15:28] <jdstrand> }
[15:28] <jdstrand> so, you get two APP_IDs
[15:29] <jdstrand> pkgname_appname1_version
[15:29] <jdstrand> pkgname_appname2_version
[15:29] <tedg> tvoss_, FYI, this is what we've discussed: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Specifications/InfographicConfinement
[15:29] <Cimi> mterry, ok
[15:29] <aquarius> kalikiana, indexes have create:true too. Index definitions are supposed to be saved to the sqlite file so that all u1db apps are saving in the same format -- it's not critical, but it would be nice if the python library could open u1db.qt-created u1db files...
[15:29] <kalikiana> aquarius: please do file each of the points you're making. just pragmatically something like reading python u1db documents has been unneeded so far and thus not high on the list, even if I theoretically agree
[15:30] <aquarius> kalikiana, *nod* I am filing bugs as we speak. :)
[15:30] <tvoss_> jdstrand, so we could "abuse" pkgname as profilename?
[15:30] <tvoss_> jdstrand, sorry, appname as profile name
[15:30] <jdstrand> tvoss_: no
[15:30] <tedg> tvoss_, We'd be saying that each appname could only be for one profile.
[15:30] <jdstrand> it isn't abuse-- it is intentional
[15:31] <tedg> tvoss_, So you could be an app or a infographic visualization tool, but not both.
[15:31] <jdstrand> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Specifications/ApplicationConfinement/Manifest#Click
[15:31] <jdstrand> tvoss_: ^
[15:31] <XorgMC> hello
[15:32] <XorgMC> I've got a question:
[15:32] <tvoss_> tedg, jdstrand grabbing coffee and reading the wiki, gimme a few
[15:33] <kalikiana> aquarius: incidentally, you don't happen to be savvy on u1db.one.ubuntu.com/kalikiana and oauth? I have a branch that is supposed to make sync with a real account work, but I'm struggling to get auth working https://code.launchpad.net/~kalikiana/u1db-qt/syncWithU1/+merge/202508
[15:34] <kalikiana> I'm finding myself in the position where oauth with one.ubuntu.com/api/account appears to be fine, but not with the u1db api
[15:34] <XorgMC> I try to install Ubuntu Touch on a Nexus 4, but it fails at boot, it always shows the "Google"-Logo with the opened lock. So it doesn't boot it. Why? Which file do i have to flash? [...]armel+mako.zip, [...]armhf.zip or both?
[15:34] <XorgMC> Tried with phablet-flash and manual method
[15:37] <aquarius> kalikiana, I don't know *enough* detail about it to help debug it, I don't think. Working out why oauth doesn't work is a pain :(
[15:37] <aquarius> kalikiana, I probably did know enough, but I'm a year off the pace now :)
[15:37] <aquarius> kalikiana, two bugs filed, anyway
[15:39] <ogra_> XorgMC, phablet-flash ubuntu-syystem -c trusty
[15:40] <ogra_> XorgMC, that should just work (it definitely does here)
[15:41] <XorgMC> okay, i'll try. and it isn't because kitkat, i heared kitkat makes hard to root
[15:42] <kalikiana> aquarius: no worries. thanks for the bugs!
[15:42] <ogra_> XorgMC, its a nexus ... they are built with rooting in mind
[15:43] <ogra_> thats why we chose them
[15:43] <XorgMC> Should i try it as root?
[15:43] <ogra_> no, should just work
[15:43] <XorgMC> "phablet-flash: error: unrecognized arguments: -c trusty" ?
[15:44] <ogra_> oh
[15:44] <ogra_> try --channel
[15:44] <ogra_> i thought the short option works too
[15:44] <aquarius> kalikiana, also, how do you delete a document from u1db?
[15:44] <XorgMC> That works, downloads stuff now. Takes some time (600KB/sec)
[15:45] <kalikiana> aquarius: would you like to review this? https://code.launchpad.net/~kalikiana/u1db-qt/removeDoc/+merge/196301
[15:46] <kalikiana> in short: there's no distinct api for it, but you can by setting it to an empty value
[15:46] <kalikiana> the above branch adds the api
[15:48] <mamenyaka> hi ogra_ , just a quick question: any chance the sources will be updated to 4.3 or 4.4?
[15:48] <aquarius> kalikiana, have added a note that it's called the wrong thing ;) More importantly, is "set the content to empty" what the reference implementation does when you call delete_doc?
[15:50] <ogra_> mamenyaka, https://plus.google.com/100264483712374857174/posts/hiefUmmUupj
[15:50] <ogra_> mamenyaka, in the works :)
[15:51] <ogra_> mamenyaka, target is end of the month
[15:51] <mamenyaka> ogra_, great!
[15:52] <kalikiana> aquarius: in python ap it'S None, the closest to that is '' in qml
[15:52] <kalikiana> *api
[15:52] <mamenyaka> ogra_, do you know anything about dualboot? will it support the unofficial ports?
[15:52] <aquarius> kalikiana, ah, what I mean is, is that all it does? it doesn't create tombstones, flag the doc as deleted in some way, etc?
[15:52] <aquarius> kalikiana, the test suite will test that stuff
[15:53] <dpm> hi tedg, I'm not sure if you saw my e-mail, but would you have a couple of minutes to discuss enabling translations in the indicators' upstream projects?
[15:53] <kalikiana> aquarius: "will" assuming somebody has tons of time to make it work
[15:54] <kalikiana> unfortunately that somebody isn't around
[15:54] <XorgMC> ogra_: ERROR:phablet-flash:Backup requested but cannot be completed succesfully, try with --system-image-ready if the system is already on an Image Based Ubuntu System to force it or use --bootstrap if data saving is not important or the system is not already on an Image Based Ubuntu System.
[15:54] <ogra_> XorgMC, well, it tells you waht to do :)
[15:55] <ogra_> use one of these options
[15:55]  * ogra_ would go with --bootstrap
[15:55] <tedg> dpm, Yeah, I haven't had a chance to look into it.  Have you talked with didrocks about how that works with the landing process?  If trunk == archive, not sure how LP merging in translations works.
[15:55] <kalikiana> aquarius: tombstone is the same as "is None", though, on the python side
[15:55] <kalikiana> it's not so clear in the docs but that's literally what the code does
[15:56] <kalikiana> aquarius: u1db-qt has no special tombstone api, all it does is skip such docs when using Query
[15:57] <aquarius> kalikiana, ok.
[15:57] <ogra_> XorgMC, btw, this is all described on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
[15:57] <dpm> tedg, thanks, I haven't checked with him, but I can do. We discussed enabling upstream projects translations with seb128, and we already do it for system apps, unity and other projects
[15:57] <kalikiana> aquarius: but you probably asked for deleting the same reason others did, it's more ensuring to have a function than being told to set the value to empty
[15:57] <tedg> dpm, Yeah, everything is changing right now, so I'm not sure how all that fits together yet.
[15:57] <aquarius> kalikiana, I did. :)
[15:58] <dpm> tedg, let me put together another e-mail trying to answer the questions and take it from there
[15:58] <attente> bfiller, hi
[15:58] <bfiller> attente: hey
[15:58] <kalikiana> aquarius: I'll rename it to deleteDoc, I agree with that point
[15:58] <tedg> dpm, Great, thank you!
[15:59] <attente> bfiller, if the user switches display languages, should we also update the enabled-languages to append it as well?
[15:59] <attente> ie update enabled-languages as well as active-language
[15:59] <aquarius> kalikiana, gnaaah. How do I get the id of a document returned from a query?
[15:59] <aquarius> kalikiana, this is why query needs to return full documents, not just the indexed fields :)
[15:59] <XorgMC> ogra_ i've tried it like it was described there, it didn't work
[15:59] <bfiller> attente: yes makes sense, as long as we first check that a keyboard layout exists for that lang
[16:00] <attente> bfiller, ok. and what should we do if the user removes a keyboard layout which happens to be active?
[16:00] <kalikiana> aquarius: docId in the delegare
[16:00] <bfiller> attente: that's a good question
[16:01] <bfiller> attente: maybe set the previous one in the list to active? or set en as active?
[16:01] <aquarius> kalikiana, ah, my apologies; it returns a subset of *contents*, but the acual docId is there, thank you.
[16:01] <kalikiana> aquarius: it's a "role" in qml speak, like "contents"
[16:01] <ogra_> XorgMC, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install#Step_4_-_Downloading_.26_Deploying_Image_to_Device
[16:02] <ogra_> XorgMC, says: "phablet-flash ubuntu-system --channel devel --bootstrap"
[16:02] <aquarius> kalikiana, only returning a subset of contents is really annoying, but I can work around it by indexing all the fields I need.
[16:02] <attente> bfiller, ok, i was wondering if setting to the first in the list was an option, but previous in the list sounds better
[16:02] <attente> bfiller, thanks
[16:02] <bfiller> attente: sure np
[16:03] <kalikiana> aquarius: depending on the documents I would expect you may not always need the entire thing, that's why. if you have something like a vast music library you may not want the query to take all that memory
[16:03] <mterry> Cimi, anyway.  So is it easy enough for ya to stuff that pkcheck line somewhere in the autopilot tests?
[16:03] <XorgMC> ogra_ works now! BIG THX!
[16:04] <aquarius> kalikiana, ya, but if I *do* want all the contents then I have to walk through the list and fetch them all myself, which rather defeats the point of having a listmodel :)
[16:04] <mterry> Cimi, I suppose the snap decision stuff would be nice gravy on top of that check, but that one pkcheck thing should be sufficient for the nested mode
[16:04] <ogra_> XorgMC, enjoy :)
[16:05] <XorgMC> thanks
[16:06] <kalikiana> aquarius: but wouldn't you put the fields in the index then?
[16:07] <cwayne> dpm, does the weather app do gps location, or geoip?
[16:07] <dpm> cwayne, just geoip for now
[16:07] <dpm> it got implemented when we still didn't have a working location API
[16:08] <XorgMC> Does anybody know where WIFI Settings are?
[16:09] <ogra_> XorgMC, at the top ... pull donw the panel
[16:09] <aquarius> kalikiana, absolutely not. Imagine I have a db for the clock app. I store alarms and previously-used-countdowns. So alarms go into the DB as {type: "alarm", alarmtime: "0820"} and countdowns as {type:"countdown", countdowntime: "45"}. I want, on the alarm tab, to show all set alarms, and on the countdown tab to show all countdowns. So I define *one* index: U1db.Index { id: by_type, expression: "type" } and two que
[16:09] <aquarius> ries: U1db.Query { id: alarms; index: by_type; query: "alarm" } and U1db.Query { id: countdowns; index: by_type; query: "countdown" }. I can then use those two queries as ListModels. I only need one index for this, if u1db is being used right... but I can't do that with your implementation, because you only return me the indexed fields.
[16:10] <cwayne> dpm, who owns the location api?
[16:12] <dpm> cwayne, I'm not sure, but tvoss might know. The last time I had a chat about it was with him
[16:13] <kalikiana> aquarius: hmm true. thinking about this I am actually getting an interesting idea… maybe the Query could be made smarter by getting the contents from the db on the fly, and just store docIds via the index
[16:13] <kalikiana> so there would be no memory concern
[16:13] <aquarius> kalikiana, indeed.
[16:13] <aquarius> kalikiana, *someone*, of course, has to hit the database to get all the document contents, but I want that to be u1db itself, not me.
[16:14] <aquarius> kalikiana, check out how the reference implementation does it :)
[16:16] <XorgMC> ogra_ it seems wifi isn't supported in Trusty, i try it with stable saucy ;)
[16:16] <ogra_> XorgMC, wait, did you say android 4.4 above ? you might need to flash the radio firmware of 4.2
[16:16] <cwayne> pmcgowan, when you had geolocation working, did you have to do any setup?
[16:17] <cwayne> i keep going into the location indicator and enabling stuff, and it keeps automatically disabling itself
[16:17] <XorgMC> Yes, it was a second hand device with updated android 4.4.2
[16:17] <pmcgowan> cwayne, no, but cant get it to work currently
[16:18] <pmcgowan> cwayne, the indicator is busted - there is a bug on that
[16:18] <cwayne> pmcgowan, ah, okay, so i'm not just crazy then
[16:18] <Cimi> mterry, what should this command return?
[16:19] <XorgMC> ogra_ just flash radio from factory image-package (4.4.2) with fastboot flash radio?
[16:20] <Cimi> didrocks, can I have a package with mir with nested mode so later I could double check it?
[16:23] <mterry> Cimi, 0 on success
[16:24] <cwayne> XorgMC, you'd want to flash an older radio image
[16:24] <Cimi> mterry, cause your command returns nothing here
[16:24] <cwayne> or wait for the 4.4 mako image (AIUI should be ready soonish)
[16:24] <mterry> Cimi, is $? 0?
[16:24] <ogra_> cwayne, like end of next week ...
[16:24] <ogra_> cwayne, i doubt he wants to wait that long :)
[16:24] <XorgMC> cwayne maybe it can be fixed like it's descibed like here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2388237  (look at download)
[16:24] <cwayne> ogra_, just presenting the options :)
[16:24] <ogra_> :)
[16:25] <Cimi> mterry, cimi@carina-vm:~/Development/unity-notifications/examples$ pkcheck --action-id org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.enable-disable-network --process $$
[16:25] <Cimi> cimi@carina-vm:~/Development/unity-notifications/examples$
[16:25] <mterry> Cimi, now run: echo $?
[16:25] <XorgMC> cwayne / ogra_ "*** for android 4.4 user or who not use radio .84 please flash .84 radio (thank to @efrant)for wifi and sensor working" flash this?
[16:26] <ogra_> XorgMC, might be, i never had to do that
[16:26] <ogra_> there is http://askubuntu.com/questions/380435/wifi-issue-on-nexus-4-16gb
[16:26] <kalikiana> aquarius: hmm if I read the code right it just dumps all the contents in the results. so this is memory vs. performance as simple as that. I suppose I'll just have to test it out
[16:26] <ogra_> XorgMC, and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/DualBootInstallation#Android4.4Radio
[16:28] <Cimi> mterry, 0
[16:28] <XorgMC> okay, flashed it. let's see...
[16:28] <kalikiana> aquarius: I will ponder on this more while I run some errands. see you around!
[16:28] <mterry> Cimi, awesome, then it worked
[16:28] <mterry> Cimi, compare that with the result you get from misspelling the action-id
[16:28] <aquarius> kalikiana, cool. I've done a couple of brief summary blog posts today about U1DB QML which should show up on planet ubuntu at some point :)
[16:28] <mterry> Cimi, you'll get some non-zero return
[16:29] <Cimi> I'll try
[16:29] <kalikiana> aquarius: woot, I will totally check those out
[16:30] <Cimi> mterry, complains about not-existing action
[16:30] <kalikiana> maybe I should be careful what promises I make now if you will hold me to it on your blog posts :-D
[16:30] <Cimi> mterry, ho do I check permissions?
[16:30] <mterry> Cimi, yup.  But now what does echo $? say?
[16:30] <Cimi> mterry, 127
[16:30] <XorgMC> Flashed, and received a sms, but still no wifi networks. there's just "Auto-join previous networks"
[16:30] <mterry> Cimi, see.  If there is a problem checking permissions, your return code will be non-zero
[16:30] <XorgMC> ogra_ Flashed, and received a sms, but still no wifi networks. there's just "Auto-join previous networks"
[16:31] <mterry> Cimi, so in autopilot, just run that command and assert the return is zero
[16:31] <Cimi> gotcha
[16:31] <ogra_> XorgMC, hmm, you should see the list of APs around you
[16:32] <ogra_> and when you mark the checkbox next to one it should ask for your passphrase
[16:32] <XorgMC> still says "Error: No Wi-Fi device found"
[16:33] <ogra_> thats weird
[16:33] <ogra_> works fine here
[16:33] <XorgMC> And i cant make calls, the green button is disabled!?
[16:33] <ogra_> bfiller, should my german keyboard actually give me german word suggestions ? (i only get english ones)
[16:34] <ogra_> XorgMC, did you type a number ?
[16:34] <XorgMC> Yes
[16:34] <bfiller> ogra_: it should yes
[16:34] <ogra_> hmm, sounds like the radio FW doesnt work ...
[16:34] <ogra_> bfiller, hmm
[16:34] <bfiller> ogra_: try switching to english and back to german
[16:34]  * ogra_ tries
[16:34] <bfiller> and see if that works
[16:35] <XorgMC> I try it with that CWM package
[16:35] <ogra_> bfiller, oh, wow, the bottom row is now missing in the osk
[16:35] <bfiller> ogra_: yikes
[16:35] <ogra_> (after switching to english)
[16:36] <bfiller> ogra_: did you switch in the keyboard itself or via settings?
[16:36] <ogra_> ah, no, its not, it is drawn across the top row actually
[16:36] <ogra_> via settings
[16:36] <ogra_> aha, second time it comes up it is right
[16:37] <bfiller> ogra_: that's a bug I guess, you should get a globe button in the keyboard and long pressing it should allow you to switch between the active langs
[16:37] <ogra_> ok
[16:37] <ogra_> the same issue when switching back to german via settings btw
[16:37] <ogra_> second rime it comes up it is fine again
[16:37] <XorgMC> this package says "Mako modem flasher" !?
[16:38] <ogra_> but it isnt german now
[16:38] <bfiller> ogra_: also, manually turn on spellchecking and you should see german words: gsettings set com.canonical.keyboard.maliit spell-checking true
[16:38] <ogra_> and i dont have a globe
[16:38] <bfiller> ogra_: don't use the settings panel, it's not in sync with the keyboard, attente working on the fix
[16:38] <XorgMC> ogra_ are you from germany?
[16:38] <bfiller> ogra_: do this for now..
[16:39] <ogra_> bfiller, but i dont have a globe
[16:39] <bfiller> ogra_: which app?
[16:39] <ogra_> shell search atm
[16:39] <bfiller> ogra_: should show up in all keyboards except browser
[16:39] <XorgMC> ah, now it works!
[16:39] <ogra_> keyboatd is english, despite me selecting german in the settings (before you said i shouldnt)
[16:40] <bfiller> ogra_: gsettings set com.canonical.keyboard.maliit enabled-languages "['en','de']"
[16:40] <ogra_> and there is no globe
[16:40] <bfiller> ogra_: gsettings set com.canonical.keyboard.maliit active-language de
[16:40] <ogra_> well, thats my enduser phone :)
[16:40] <ogra_> and i dont have a cable around atm
[16:40] <bfiller> ogra_: ok, well fix in progress
[16:40]  * ogra_ tries a reboot 
[16:41] <XorgMC> How can i adjust the volume? With volume up/down it doesnt work :(
[16:42] <ogra_> XorgMC, it does here ... you should see the icon in the panel change
[16:42] <XorgMC> Found it
[16:44] <ogra_> bfiller, i get the globe if i select more than one language ... and it seems to stay around after disablinfg the second
[16:45] <ogra_> yay, and german completion
[16:45] <ogra_> the sound is still quite delayed when typing
[16:48] <doanac> sergiusens: I've just hit a problem on one of our CI servers. we can't get phablet-tools installed. it now depends on "click" but there's no installation candidate. any ideas about what's happened? (this is on saucy)
[16:50] <didrocks> Cimi: did you read that I pinged ogra to give one to you? he will do that I guess and ping you ;)
[16:51] <Cimi> didrocks, mercie!
[16:51] <ogra_> didrocks, oh sorry, that fell off my table ... will do right after the meeting
[16:51] <didrocks> de rien ;)
[16:51] <didrocks> ogra_: great!
[16:52] <om26er> Hi!
[16:52] <om26er> initctl set-env QT_LOAD_TESTABILITY=1 that does not seems to work anymore
[16:53] <om26er> apps started after that are not loading the testability driver automatically, HELP ?
[17:01] <om26er> Saviq, hey do you know anything about ^
[17:03] <annerajb> hello
[17:08] <om26er> bug 1271997
[17:13] <tvoss> sil2100, ping
[17:13] <sil2100> tvoss: pong!
[17:13] <sil2100> tvoss: yes, we're almost there! Just need didrocks to +1 the release ;p
[17:13] <sil2100> tvoss: after the meeting I press the button and it's IN
[17:13]  * tvoss hugs sil210
[17:14]  * tvoss hugs sil2100, too :)
[17:23] <popey> didrocks: bug 1271963
[17:25] <didrocks> popey: thanks!
[17:26] <didrocks> popey: yeah, I still wonder how it's getting a list of empty icons though
[17:26] <didrocks> as the size should be 0
[17:26] <didrocks> mzanetti: any idea? ^
[17:26] <popey> it may well have cached them from when i was at home
[17:26] <popey> i didnt clean boot
[17:26] <sergiusens> doanac, hey; add https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/+archive/ppa
[17:26] <mzanetti> didrocks: no... mhr3 might
[17:27] <didrocks> mzanetti: ah, of course, it's mhr3's fault! :)
[17:27] <mzanetti> I haven't said that
[17:27] <didrocks> what am I thinking! Old good habits return :)
[17:27] <mhr3> nooooooo
[17:27] <doanac> sergiusens: thanks
[17:27] <didrocks> mzanetti: I'm kidding, all joke between us ;)
[17:27] <didrocks> old*
[17:27] <didrocks> mhr3: what have done *again*? :p
[17:28] <mhr3> didrocks, dont you know? my job is to break stuff and make you not realize :P
[17:28] <mhr3> i got pretty good at hiding the breaks
[17:28] <didrocks> mhr3: but but… you wrote code without bugs! what happened to this duty? :)
[17:28] <didrocks> hehe
[17:29] <mzanetti> so mhr3 is the reason why we have to do the releasing ourselves now :D
[17:29] <didrocks> all changed when I stopped looking at you!
[17:29] <didrocks> yeah, it's all on him! ;)
[17:29] <mhr3> thank me later :D
[17:40] <kenvandine> tedg, you had mentioned you were thinking about adding the infographic visualizers as a group in the desktop file
[17:41] <kenvandine> do we have any tooling in qtcreator for building the .desktop file with specialized groups?
[17:41] <kenvandine> like de do for building the .json files
[17:41] <kenvandine> or plans to
[17:42] <kenvandine> s/de/we/
[17:46] <fr33r1d3> Hello guys. I installed Ubuntu Touch on my Nexus 4 the other day. It works quite well, but I cant send or recieve MMS. Is that something someone is working on or?
[17:46] <ogra_> fr33r1d3, yes
[17:47] <ogra_> ChickenCutlass works on it ... its not 100% there yet though ... be patient :)
[17:51] <fr33r1d3> ok, thanx
[17:57] <ogra_> Cimi, http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/ubuntu-touch/ubuntu-touch-session_0.91~test1_all.deb ... sorry that it took so long
[17:58] <ogra_> (note that you should install unity-system-compositor first)
[17:58] <annerajb> hello any updates on ubuntu touch for 4.4?
[17:59] <ogra_> annerajb, https://plus.google.com/100264483712374857174/posts/hiefUmmUupj
[17:59] <ogra_> still in the works
[18:00] <annerajb> yay gerrit is setupt
[18:01] <myNameIsWho> Hello there I am trying to make a google speech recognition library.  I have made the lib but it is returning nothing back from the Non-supported Google Api.  I was wondering if some one could test this and see if it works for them . It is super simple to test.  Just make a audio recording in FLAC at 16000 bit rate  then upload to google server and wait for reply.  wget -q -U "Mozilla/5.0" --post-file /message.flac --header="Content-Type: audi
[18:01] <myNameIsWho> o/x-flac; rate=16000" -O - "http://www.google.com/speech-api/v1/recognize?lang=en-US&client=chromium"       << this is what I get back       {"status":5,"id":"","hypotheses":[]}   just want to see if others get that back also. Maybe the api is not working or maybe I am blocked.
[18:02] <myNameIsWho> where message.flac is your recorded flac file
[18:04] <myNameIsWho> seems like status 5 means incorrect audio file but ..... I think that it is right
[18:12] <jose> cyphermox: ping
[18:17] <myNameIsWho> Nevermind it was my rate I needed to change it to rate=8000 and not 16000
[18:22] <taiebot> Hi all just to let you know I managed to isolate a crash and you should be able to reproduce it.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1240408
[18:35] <cyphermox> jose: pong
[18:35] <jose> cyphermox: hey, I got to test urfkill
[18:35] <cyphermox> cool!
[18:35] <jose> once I rebooted the state was not saved, like, things were turned on again
[18:36] <jose> I tried with rfkill block <identifier> and with the flight mode command you provided
[18:36] <jose> both seemed to have the same problem
[18:36] <cyphermox> ok
[18:36] <cyphermox> can you check whether you have a /var/lib/urfkill/saved-states
[18:36] <cyphermox> ?
[18:36] <jose> sure, give me a second
[18:36] <jose> should I enable it first?
[18:37] <cyphermox> jose: no, it shouldn't matter
[18:37] <jose> ok, checking
[18:37] <cyphermox> jose: are you doing this on your computer or on touch?
[18:38] <jose> cyphermox: on touch, it's running as the recovery system
[18:38] <jose> (on the recovery partition)
[18:38] <jose> I do have the file, yes
[18:39] <cyphermox> ok, see if it does contain true for the type of killswitc you disabled
[18:39] <jose> nope, everything is false
[18:39] <cyphermox> did you toggle it back on before?
[18:39] <jose> I did, and toggled back off right now
[18:39] <cyphermox> the idea is that it only writes when shutting down
[18:39]  * jose reboots
[18:39] <cyphermox> so if you want to see it write to disk, you have to stop urfkill
[18:40] <jose> I rebooted and it didn't write anything
[18:41] <cyphermox> alright
[18:41] <jose> let me try something else for a min
[18:41] <cyphermox> do you have urfkill running now?
[18:41] <jose> that's correct
[18:42] <ogra_> should /var/lib/urfkill be writable ?
[18:42] <ogra_> (did you make the necessary changes)
[18:42] <cyphermox> you might want to try to kill urfkill with SIGINT, see if it behaves better. that was an issue before
[18:42] <cyphermox> to see if you can make it write to the file
[18:42] <cyphermox> ogra_: oh, well, yeah :)
[18:42] <cyphermox> I never did, good catch
[18:42] <cyphermox> d'oh
[18:42] <ogra_> :)
[18:43] <jose> let me check if the file is writable then
[18:44] <jose> has only read permissions
[18:47] <jose> cyphermox: I added write permissions and the file now shows true at wlan, which I blocked, but when turned on wifi isn't off
[18:47] <cyphermox> sorry, I don't understand that
[18:48] <cyphermox> you mean after a reboot?
[18:48] <jose> I did chmod u+w saved-states, so the file is now writable. I blocked wifi with 'rfkill block wifi' and rebooted
[18:48] <cyphermox> right
[18:48] <jose> I now checked the file and says [WLAN] soft=true
[18:48] <cyphermox> I just did this and it fails here too
[18:49] <jose> so two bugs here: file not being writable, and somehow urfkill isn't check or something as it's not off
[18:52] <cyphermox> I see
[18:53] <cyphermox> jose: I think the file not being writable is a red herring
[18:53] <cyphermox> it works fine here
[18:53] <cyphermox> the problem is on boot urfkill starts before the wifi device's firmware is written by the android ueventd jobs, and gets enabled again by it
[18:54] <cyphermox> similar issue to what I had with bluetooth too >.<
[18:54] <ogra_> cyphermox, start urfkill after the container then
[18:54] <cyphermox> ogra_: sucks
[18:54] <ogra_> (start on started android)
[18:55] <cyphermox> then there is a short period of time where radios can be enabled before they are shut down again
[18:55] <ogra_> yeah
[18:55] <jose> and that happens
[18:55] <cyphermox> ie. bad
[18:55] <ogra_> i doubt you can prevent that unless you write into the container somehow
[18:55] <ogra_> to tell android to keep it off when loading
[18:56] <cyphermox> ogra_: need to move the wifi and bluetooth initialisation properly outside of android
[18:56] <ogra_> isnt there a property you coudl set ?
[18:56] <cyphermox> probably, I'll need to dig deeper
[18:56] <ogra_> you cant if fimware is involved
[18:56] <cyphermox> something to do next week
[18:56] <ogra_> only one of ueventd/udev can handle the firmware
[18:56] <cyphermox> I'm sure there is something, just not sure what
[18:56] <cyphermox> yeah, I know
[18:56] <cyphermox> it should all be udev
[18:56] <ogra_> and only android knows the options you need
[18:57] <cyphermox> ogra_: I'm well on the way to splitting out the bluetooth initialization completely out of android
[18:57] <ogra_> (oh, and we are on a quest to remove all HW related bits from the rootfs in favour of having them in the container)
[18:57] <ogra_> (see the ML)
[18:57] <cyphermox> seriously?
[18:57] <ogra_> read the ML :)
[18:57] <mamenyaka> ogra_, can you help me?
[18:57] <jose> well, if you guys need any testing just let me know, I'm heading for lunch :)
[18:59] <cyphermox> jose: sure, thanks!
[18:59] <mamenyaka> Black screen after boot, dmesg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6804395/    logcat: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6804400/
[18:59] <ogra_> cyphermox, subject "Device-Specific configs in debs"
[18:59] <cyphermox> ogra_: I understand the idea for supporting other devices, but that makes handling other things hardware-related but more generic, outside the container, a large headache
[19:00] <ogra_> cyphermox, well, i would like to go for generic ... like we do on x86 ... but sadly that will not work inmany cases
[19:00] <cyphermox> it can
[19:00] <cyphermox> it's just a bit more complicated
[19:00] <ogra_> i.e. whn you have the same chipset but device specific configs
[19:00] <ogra_> alsa is a good example
[19:00] <cyphermox> I was getting some headway splitting out the hci_qcomm_init code into something more generic
[19:01] <ogra_> you will likely have per device ucm files
[19:01] <cyphermox> but now it's useless to spend time on that
[19:01] <ogra_> since if you would create a generic one for the chipset you just end up with tons and tons of device specific exceptions
[19:02] <ogra_> and i guess that goes for firmware loader options too ...
[19:02] <ogra_> same chipset and fw but n different ways to initialize it
[19:02] <ogra_> and only android knows the right runes
[19:02] <cyphermox> oh well
[19:03] <ogra_> cyphermox, firmware loading is only disabled in udev ... you could indeed just load it from your script or whatever
[19:03] <cyphermox> no point
[19:03] <ogra_> definitely something for next week ...
[19:04] <ogra_> but from the ML discussion it seems android is the desired place to keep it
[19:07] <cyphermox> yeah, I understand, even if I disagree
[19:07] <cyphermox> it certainly reduces the scope
[19:08]  * cyphermox hacks up bluetooth-touch to get rid of specific crap
[19:09] <ogra_> mamenyaka, did you wait a while to see if it possibly comes up at some point ? looks like apport is collecting a lot of stuff (or tries to at least) ... that can put heavy load on the system
[19:09] <mamenyaka> how much should I wait?
[19:09] <mamenyaka> ogra_, I waited like 5 mins
[19:10] <dobey> is there any way to access ANT+ devices in ubuntu touch?
[19:25] <mamenyaka> ogra_, I stopped the apport service, the screen went from black to turned off
[19:26] <ogra_> what device is that ?
[19:26] <mamenyaka> ogra_, Sony Tablet Z
[19:27] <ogra_> not using Mir seemingly
[19:27] <mamenyaka> i still have surfaceflinger
[19:28] <mamenyaka> so, what did I miss?
[19:28] <ogra_> we will soon drop support for that ...
[19:28] <ogra_> not sure
[19:28] <mamenyaka> a few weeks ago my build worked fine
[19:29] <mamenyaka> today's build is as I described
[19:29] <ogra_> well, looking at the SF test results at http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/touch_sf4p/it doesnt look so good
[19:31] <mamenyaka> sf4p?
[19:31] <ogra_> dunno what the 4p stands for
[19:31] <ogra_> sf is surfaceflinger
[19:32] <mamenyaka> so it's just a bad build
[19:32] <ogra_> latest with the switch to kitkat we will drop SF
[19:32] <ogra_> which should be end of next week
[19:33] <mamenyaka> looking forward to it
[19:34] <mamenyaka> so what image do you recommend trying?
[19:34] <ogra_> well, todays is fine on my mako ...
[19:34] <mamenyaka> or how do I switch to Mir
[19:34] <ogra_> touch /home/phablet/.display-mir
[19:35] <mamenyaka> reboot?
[19:35] <ogra_> but you might catch driver issues with mir ... not sure it supports adreno200 yet
[19:35] <ogra_> yeah
[19:35] <ogra_> if you have issues, talk to the guys in #ubuntu-mir
[19:35] <mamenyaka> we'll see
[19:39] <mamenyaka> how do I check the status?
[19:39] <ogra_> ps ax|grep surface
[19:40] <ogra_> shouldnt return surfaceflinger :)
[19:40] <mamenyaka> okay, that's out of the way
[19:40] <mamenyaka> still black screen
[19:40] <ogra_> no shell ?
[19:40] <ogra_> bah
[19:40] <ogra_> any fresh files in /var/crash ?
[19:41] <mamenyaka> yes
[19:41] <mamenyaka> _usr_bin_maliit-server.32011.crash
[19:41] <ogra_> thats the keyboard
[19:41] <ogra_> the shell shoudl still come up
[19:44] <mamenyaka> dmesg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6804637/   logcat: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6804639/
[19:45] <mamenyaka> anywhere else to check?
[19:46] <ogra_> the unity8 log probably
[19:46] <ogra_> in /home/phablet/.configg/upstart iirc
[19:46] <ogra_> -g
[19:47] <mamenyaka> empty - /home/phablet/.config/upstart
[19:48] <ogra_> /home/phablet/.cache/upstart, sorry
[19:48] <mamenyaka> hah, that makes more sense
[19:48] <mamenyaka> Failed to load platform plugin "ubuntu". Available platforms are:
[19:48] <ogra_> hmm
[19:49] <mamenyaka> repeats through the whole file
[19:49] <ogra_> that doesnt look like it honored the ~/.display-mir file
[19:49] <ogra_> right
[19:49] <ogra_> showing you the available backends
[19:49] <mamenyaka> yes
[19:50] <ogra_> /usr/bin/ubuntu-touch-session should have set it properly
[19:50] <ogra_> if [ -f "$HOME/.display-mir" ]; then
[19:50] <ogra_>     export QT_QPA_PLATFORM=ubuntumirclient
[19:50] <ogra_> else
[19:51] <mamenyaka> there is no $HOME set
[19:52] <ogra_> lightdm logs in the phablet user ... so there is definitely a HOME set
[19:52] <mamenyaka> but echo $HOME empty
[19:52] <ogra_> (unity8 is started by the session)
[19:52] <ogra_> are you phablet ?
[19:52] <ogra_> sudo -u phablet -i
[19:52] <mamenyaka> oh, i see
[19:52] <ogra_> echo $HOME
[19:52] <mamenyaka> and I created the .display-mir as root
[19:53] <ogra_> that shouldnt matter
[19:53] <ogra_> it just checks for existence
[19:53] <mamenyaka> so, now I am phablet
[19:53] <mamenyaka> and $HOME is set
[19:53] <mamenyaka> of course, I always forget that root is by default
[19:54] <ogra_> well, try: stop unity8
[19:54] <ogra_> and then: start unity8
[19:54] <ogra_> see what happens and check the log
[19:56] <mamenyaka> WARNING: QApplication was not created in the main() thread.
[19:57] <mamenyaka> onyl this after restarting
[19:57] <mamenyaka> unity8
[19:57] <ogra_> thats harmless
[19:57] <mamenyaka> i know
[19:57] <mamenyaka> but still nothing
[19:59] <ogra_> well, i'm a bit out of ideas
[20:00] <mamenyaka> in the logcat, it just repeats the same line with Adreno200-EGL
[20:00] <ogra_> rsalveti uploaded some hybris changes ... not sure if that could cause issues
[20:09] <mamenyaka> do these mir_..._tests mean something?
[20:10] <ogra_> ask in #ubuntu-mir
[20:10] <ogra_> i think they are test tools
[20:12] <mamenyaka> they are all OK
[20:12] <mamenyaka> okay, thank you for everything
[20:14] <rsalveti> ogra_: shouldn't change anything for 4.2
[20:15] <ogra_> rsalveti, well, i have no idea whats broken for him
[20:15] <ogra_> and now he is gone :)
[20:15] <ogra_> but QT_QPA_PLATFORM=ubuntu is definitely wrong when he has set .display-mir
[21:21] <ybon> popey: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~yohanboniface/osmtouch/trunk/files :)
[21:21]  * popey runs to get his phone
[21:21] <ybon> Be careful, I'm learning close to everything (qt, qml, bazaar, etc.), so... ;)
[21:22] <ybon> but you should see a map, see a button to center the map on your position, and have textfield to search for a place and center the map on this place
[21:22] <ybon> all very very alpha
[21:23] <ybon> like just out of the oven, and the recipe is not written yet :p
[21:23] <Fishscene> lol
[21:23] <popey> pffft
[21:23] <popey> i usually just lob stuff in the pan
[21:23] <popey> recipes are overrated
[21:23] <popey> nobody died yet from my cooking
[21:24] <ybon> if the oven is hot enough, everything is safe ;)
[21:24] <popey> segfaults on my desktop
[21:24] <ybon> this means "well cooked"
[21:24] <ybon> you mean through qmlscene?
[21:25] <popey> ya
[21:25] <ybon> and with qt creator?
[21:27] <popey> works in qtcreator
[21:27] <Fishscene> How would I know which Mir milestone is in which development channel?
[21:32] <Fishscene> There's a bugfix that comes out in 0.1.4, last I heard, the ubuntu-touch was on 0.1.3, but besides bothering dev's randomly as to what is going on, I have no idea how to tell which version of Mir Ubuntu touch is using.
[21:33] <popey> Fishscene: we have a web page which shows changes
[21:33] <popey> http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/
[21:34] <popey> ii  libmirclient4: 0.1.3+14.04. armhf        Display server for Ubuntu - clien
[21:34] <popey> ^^ my phone
[21:34] <popey> so no, not 0.1.4 yet
[21:35] <Fishscene> Was that the output of your phone?
[21:35] <popey> yes
[21:35] <Fishscene> What ADB command did you use? The enter button doesn't work on terminal on my N7
[21:36] <Fishscene> actually, nvm. I can look that up :)  Thanks Popey
[21:38] <popey> np
[21:38] <popey> adb shell dpkg -l "*mir*"
[21:42] <ybon> popey: any input? The app runs both on desktop via qmlscene and qtcreator and on the phone for me :s
[21:43] <thomi> tedg: I've just finished testing your gir support branch, and it works fine, I'm approving it now
[21:44] <tedg> thomi, Ah, cool!  Thanks.
[21:44] <tedg> thomi, You wouldn't by chance know anything about packaging python bindings?
[21:44] <thomi> tedg: not gir bindings, no
[21:44] <tedg> thomi, These are SWIG actually.
[21:44] <tedg> thomi, For libbabeltrace
[21:45] <thomi> tedg: hmmm, not swig either - I usually use C/C++ and a python setup.py file
[21:45] <thomi> tedg: I usually bug barry about those sorts of questions :)
[21:45] <tedg> thomi, Yeah, he seems to be out, and I might have stretched kenvandine patience with me :-)
[21:45] <thomi> tedg: Any idea when the code that enables the failure notification in libUAL will be merged?
[21:46]  * tedg hates on Python a bit :-)
[21:46] <thomi> tedg: that's ok, I hate on glib a bit, so we're even :)
[21:47] <tedg> thomi, Not sure entirely, I got pete-woods to agree to review them but he hasn't yet.  Need to harass him again tomorrow.
[21:47] <thomi> tedg: OK. I'm on holiday most of next week, but it'd be great if we could egt this stuff into distro the week after
[21:48] <tedg> thomi, Cool.  I'm implementing a feature pete needs right now that is dependent on that, so he'll be motivated here soon :-)
[21:48] <thomi> heh, awesome
[21:49] <popey> ybon: sorry, distracted by real life (and port)
[21:49] <ybon> oh no pb :)
[21:50] <popey> ybon: ok, search is strange up at the top
[21:51] <popey> it works, it just doesn't feel like the other apps, but that's easily changed if required
[21:51] <ybon> you would expect it at the bottom? Or just with more margins?
[21:51] <popey> no.. lemme get you an example screenshot
[21:51] <ybon> well, I don't have really worked on the look and feel for now
[21:51] <popey> should it zoom in/out?
[21:51] <ybon> as I said, just make it work for 1. than start thinking :)
[21:51] <ybon> panning?
[21:52] <popey> no, zoom
[21:52] <popey> panning works
[21:52] <ybon> zoom, but with which action?
[21:52] <popey> I'd expect double click or mouse wheel to zoom in/out
[21:52] <popey> on desktop
[21:52] <ybon> ah, yeah
[21:52] <ybon> let me check on desktop :)
[21:53] <ybon> ah no :)
[21:53] <popey> ybon: http://popey.com/~alan/phablet/device-2014-01-23-215254.png
[21:53] <popey> thats what search looks like in the clock app fyi
[21:53] <popey> not major
[21:53] <ybon> yes
[21:53] <ybon> so with a title an maring left/right?
[21:54] <ybon> but I guess I just need to use the correct components
[21:54] <popey> yeah, thats all
[21:54] <popey> its a lovely start ☻
[21:55] <ybon> thanks :)
[21:55] <ybon> yeah, just a start :p
[21:55] <ybon> In an ideal world, I was hoping displaying the search field on top of the map
[21:55] <ybon> without opening a new page
[21:56] <ybon> what do you think?
[21:56] <popey> right, now interesting you should say that
[21:56] <popey> I know the canonical design team are working on new ui for search
[21:56] <popey> so i would hang fire for now, and see what comes out of that over the next few weeks
[21:56] <popey> save you re-doing it again
[21:56] <ybon> good to know :)
[21:59] <popey> ybon: are there other tilesets?
[21:59] <ybon> popey: ah, one more question: is it working with your 3G connection? Including geolocation?
[21:59] <ybon> not at the moment, but clearly one the first items of my todolist :)
[21:59] <popey> i have not tried geo on the phone because it's painfully slow
[21:59] <ybon> it should be not that slow, I'm using geoip in fallback
[22:00] <myNameIsWho> ybon,  it takes like 20 minutes for it to start working
[22:00] <myNameIsWho> PostionSource that is
[22:00] <ybon> also, if you have advices on the code side, please go ahead, I'm missing good pratices atm
[22:01] <ybon> myNameIsWho: yes, this is why I'm using geoip in fallback, as suggested by popey yesterday :)
[22:01] <popey> ybon: oh i see
[22:01] <myNameIsWho> ybon,  how good is that at getting a location ?
[22:02] <ybon> fast, but not really acute
[22:02] <ybon> and need a internet connection
[22:02] <popey> ybon: http://popey.com/~alan/phablet/device-2014-01-23-220150.png
[22:02] <popey> ybon: http://popey.com/~alan/phablet/device-2014-01-23-220208.png
[22:02] <popey> first was once launching app, second is after clicking "position"
[22:02] <popey> yes, it found my location
[22:03] <ybon> yeah, don't ask me why the app start on top of Reims, I've just put some random lat/lon :s
[22:03] <popey> pinch to zoom works nicely
[22:03] <popey> ☻
[22:03] <ybon> I need to geolocate automatically I think
[22:03] <ybon> great :)
[22:03] <ybon> this is thanks to QTlocation, btw
[22:03] <popey> although oddly it shows the app behind it when it's loading tiles
[22:03] <ybon> yes
[22:03] <ybon> I don't know why
[22:04] <ybon> I've set a background
[22:04] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/phablet/device-2014-01-23-220353.png
[22:04] <ybon> but sometimes it's there, sometimes not
[22:04] <myNameIsWho> ybon,  branch for the code ?
[22:04] <popey> depends how fast you zoom
[22:04] <ybon> myNameIsWho: https://launchpad.net/osmtouch/trunk
[22:05] <ybon> popey: not sure, try relaunching the app, sometimes it has the background, and then you can zoom as fast as you want you will have a white backtground when tiles are not loaded
[22:05] <popey> haha, nice license choice!
[22:05] <popey> might be because i launched via qtcreator
[22:06] <ybon> I have the same behaviour even with the app installed on the device
[22:06] <popey> ah
[22:07] <ybon> atm, I'm unable to understand which make the bg be there or not
[22:07] <Laney> mterry: is the phone lock screen/greeter part of src:unity8?
[22:08] <mterry> Laney, yeah
[22:08] <Laney> ty
[22:10] <myNameIsWho> ybon,  Yeah I launched the app on my desktop and it is no where near me. How to use fallback ?
[22:10] <ybon> click on "position" in the actions
[22:12] <myNameIsWho> ybon,  no good says that it can not find it
[22:12] <ybon> you have to show the menu like on the phone :)
[22:12] <ybon> if you are on the desktop, just click on the very bottom of the window, and drag to the top
[22:12] <myNameIsWho> ybon,  after I searched for a place it is now using the Ubuntnu geoip
[22:14] <myNameIsWho> ybon,  http://i.imgur.com/5xZcg9J.png   this is what I get if I do not search first
[22:15] <ybon> ah, interesting
[22:15] <ybon> maybe you have been to fast?
[22:16] <ybon> try relaunching the app and waiting like 10 seconds before clicking?
[22:16] <ybon> Maybe I should add the button only when a position is known
[22:16] <myNameIsWho> ybon,  you could try and drop a rectangle behind the Map to see if it fixes the issue
[22:16] <ybon> the bg issue?
[22:18] <myNameIsWho> ybon,  yeah the background issue but the more that I look at it ad test the more I think that it is in qtlocation in the class MAP
[22:21] <ybon> the fact is that the background is actually set to the mainView
[22:21] <myNameIsWho> ybon, it is a nice app
[22:21] <ybon> so why is the Map able to have a transparent background when its container has not?
[22:21] <ybon> thanks :)
[22:22] <myNameIsWho> ybon,  a lot less code then my map app
[22:22] <myNameIsWho> though a lot less features. and your app has less bugs lol
[22:23] <ybon> what is your app?
[22:24] <myNameIsWho> a google maps app
[22:24] <ybon> han, you mean A NSA Map app? (jocking ;) )
[22:25] <popey> ☻
[22:25] <popey> I do love OSM
[22:26] <popey> We interviewed them some years back - maybe 5 years ago, and back then they were on the verge of having all of the UK roads mapped
[22:26] <popey> now they have everything, cycle lanes, post boxes, telegraph poles.. the lot
[22:26] <popey> it's an amazing project
[22:26] <ybon> :)
[22:26] <ybon> And you should look in non Western countries the difference :)
[22:27] <popey> I find the map tiles more beautiful than gmaps too.. more detail
[22:27] <popey> bit of a map fanboy tbh
[22:28] <ybon> Have you seen the recent new style on osm.org? Dedicated to humanitarian contexts
[22:29] <ybon> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=5/47.025/1.934&layers=H this one
[22:30] <popey> thats beautiful
[22:30] <popey> oh! another feature we need.. offline/cached mode ☻
[22:30] <ybon> yes, for sure
[22:31] <ybon> I'm the designer of this new style (and proud of ;) ) :)
[22:31] <popey> oh awesome!
[22:31] <ybon> In an ideal word, the offline mode would use vector data
[22:31] <ybon> but this for the V2 ;)
[22:31] <popey> generate the tiles on the device?
[22:32] <popey> V3 has edit, right? ☻
[22:32] <ybon> yep, sort of
[22:32] <ybon> generate vector style on the mobile
[22:32] <ybon> hehe this is another big story yep :)
[22:32] <ybon> in the meantime, one option will certainly be MBTiles
[22:32] <ybon> which are sort of compressed pack of tiles
[22:33] <ybon> so you can download the pack for, say, one country
[22:33] <ybon> but not more, then the file is too big
[22:33] <ybon> and no way to have the whole Russia on a MBTile and put it on the phone :s
[22:34] <popey> nice
[22:41] <shiggitay> zomg Sora1995|Cloud :P
[22:42] <popey> ybon: oh, you're a canal boater?
[22:42] <ybon> yes :)
[22:43] <ybon> I'm right now in my boat :)
[22:43] <popey> Excellent.
[22:43] <popey> Elleo does too I believe
[22:43] <popey> I've spent a couple of holidays canal boating with geeks. Love it
[22:43] <ybon> And here is my boat: https://yohanboniface.trovebox.com/photos/album-3/list :)
[22:44] <popey> oh!
[22:44] <popey> thats not what *I* would call a canal boat ☻
[22:44] <popey> thats huge!
[22:44] <ybon> hehe
[22:45] <popey> haha, laptop on the table on the deck.. nice ㋛
[22:45] <ybon> summer office :)
[22:46] <popey> that looks delightful.
[22:47] <popey> how long have you had it?
[22:47] <ybon> since 2009
[22:49] <popey> do you move about much?
[22:50] <ybon> yes, starting in May and until November
[22:50] <ybon> but in the winter, no
[22:51] <popey> are mooring expensive where you are?
[22:51] <ybon> yeah, in Paris or around, quite
[22:51] <ybon> like 500 euros in winter, twice in summer
[22:53] <popey> per month?
[22:53] <ybon> yep
[22:55] <popey> is there a decent canal network for you to move about the country?
[22:55] <ybon> => http://fluv.io/ :)
[22:55] <ybon> (another OSM style I've made)
[22:56] <Sora1995|Cloud> shiggitay: ohai
[23:00] <Wardane> I am trying to run the Ubuntu Touch emulator and it is asking for a login and password. Any help on this would be welcome.
[23:03] <Wardane> I am trying to run the Ubuntu Touch emulator and it is asking for a login and password. Any help on this would be welcome.
[23:04] <popey> Wardane: phablet/phablet
[23:04] <Wardane> Thank you!
[23:04] <popey> ybon: i had no idea such waterways existed outside the UK
[23:04] <Elleo> ybon: cool, I live on a narrowboat in the UK :)
[23:05] <ybon> Elleo: great :)
[23:06] <ybon> popey: basically, all the Nederlands are just waterways ;)
[23:07] <Wardane> Should the GUI automatically start when you are using the emulator or is there a command that I need to run to get it to show up?
[23:08] <popey> Wardane: it takes a while
[23:14] <popey> Wardane: the console login appears before the gui starts, first run takes ages