* Noskcaj has decided to spend the day backporting stuff, has little else to do00:03
bluesabreslickymaster: most digital cameras do not work as webcams00:53
bluesabresee if it is recognized by cheese00:53
NoskcajAnyone want to confirm bug 1272123 ?01:01
ubottubug 1272123 in Precise Backports "Please backport gtk2-engines-xfce 3.0.0-1 (universe) from quantal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/127212301:01
micahgNoskcaj: you can do the tests as well01:03
Noskcajmicahg, My pc isn't powerful enough to run a VM01:04
NoskcajStupid fastway couriers01:04
bluesabremicahg: are you still around?01:17
bluesabreI have these three merge requests that have been ready for a little while, do you think you could merge these?01:18
bluesabrethe first may be a bit outdated, it was originally for 13.1001:18
Unit193Still valid.01:19
bluesabreif you need me to do anything to bring them up to speed, please let me know01:19
bluesabreI'm about to go have dinner, but I'll be back in a bit01:20
micahgbluesabre: yeah, I'm not sure I have time tonight, but will try to get to them soon01:39
bluesabrethanks micahg02:08
bluesabrebtw, how are you doing, haven't seen you in a while :)02:09
Unit193All work?02:10
Unit193Anything we can help with then?02:14
micahgnope, thanks anyways :002:16
Unit193I'm sure my submitting a proposal didn't help.  Sure.02:18
Unit193While you're here, if you have a sec that is, can you voice your opinion on the meeting item of having more people able to commit to the branches?02:19
micahgI think that's a good goal02:55
Unit193damiank: Howdy.03:31
damiankjust fine, trying to download today daily iso03:36
damiankbut it seems my ISP dont want me to download it ;)03:37
Unit193Hrm, what's the error/problem?03:39
damiankim not sure, it wont start. But it worked 2 days ago. So probably its my ISP today03:40
damianki'll try tomorrow03:41
Unit193http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/trusty/alpha-2/trusty-desktop-amd64.iso ?03:42
Unit193>140KB/s for me. :/03:42
damiankyeah its my isp03:43
damiankdont worry03:43
damianki'll try later or tomorrow03:43
damiankthe strange thing is that internet actually works03:43
damiankjust ubuntu.com seems to have stopped03:44
Unit193Entirely?  Just slow here.03:44
damianki have a daily downloaded on tuesday03:44
damiankthat worked great03:44
Unit193Oh, so when you download it tomorrow, just use zsync and you're great.03:45
damianki'll test03:45
damiankim testing on virtualbox under xubuntu 12.04 that i have on this pc03:45
damiankdeciding if updating or not ;)03:46
damianki guess its better to wait for final before using it outside of virtualbox03:47
Unit193Depends, how critical is it?03:51
damianki work on this pc.. so may be a bit critical. Actually i do most of my work on gvim or st2 coding php, so if editor works not much problem.. but..03:52
Unit193Well, several have been running with no issues.  Some polish isn't on, and not all packages we'll need have been uploaded, but still.03:53
damiankwell i have a very simple setup here03:54
damiankjust what came on the 12.04 cd and the editors03:54
damiankso i dont care too much of packages, just that the xfce works and gvim works should be ok :)03:54
Unit193Well if I were you then, I'd likely go for it. :P03:55
damianki tried on virtualbox and seems to work great03:55
damiankbut one thing is vb, and other the real thing with drivers like ralink cards, etc03:55
Unit193Oh, something you *can* do to test it on your hardware (the lazy way) install grml-rescueboot from the repo and drop the iso in /boot/grml and update-grub.03:56
damianki'll test that this weekend03:56
damiankhi brainwash04:13
* Unit193 likes apt-listchanges04:21
* Noskcaj does not04:22
Noskcajtakes ages to download changelogs, then another button to hit on the daily upgrade04:23
damianki have to go bye!!04:24
Unit193...So don't install it? 0_o04:26
NoskcajUnit193, I uninstalled it, just saying i don't like it04:36
Unit193Only time it's a "problem", is release upgrades, and a simple kill will fix any annoyance.04:43
ecomp97Just started testing Alpha 2.  Looks nice so far.  With regards to  bug #1261203 (Abiword "missing" ruler), I notice that opening any dialog restores the top  ruler.04:48
ubottubug 1261203 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Abiword top ruler hidden by gray area on first open" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/126120304:48
ecomp97However, any attempt at text entry results in the ruler vanishing once again.04:52
Unit193ochosi: https://unit193.net/indicator-weirdness.png04:55
ecomp97Abiword's about dialogue is also missing the abiword icon.  It just shows the placeholder black rectangle missing icon.04:56
ecomp97Found strange behavior in Parole's volume slider.  If I drag the volume above the slider it will jump down and resume the increase from that point.05:32
Unit193bluesabre: ^?05:33
Unit193Might have a VM with parole.05:33
Unit193ecomp97: Just jumps to the bottom for me.05:41
ecomp97When it jumps for me, it will go the bottom or close to depending on the window size.  Starting a length equal to the slider's length from the window title it would then increase.05:44
ecomp97I'll be sure to run Xubuntu through some more rigorous testing later.05:58
Noskcajbluesabre, An email i just got that may interest you. http://paste.ubuntu.com/6807255/08:22
Noskcajmenulibre related08:23
knomeelfy, 08:52
knome [knome] Follow up with elfy on the QA articles for Xubuntu.org: TODO08:52
knomeelfy, did you need anything more from me?08:52
knomeelfy, while you basically have the publishing rights now, i don't think it's bad idea ever to ask somebody else to proof-read08:53
knomeelfy, but other than that... i don't think there's much to follow up unless you had some questions08:53
slickymastermorning all09:59
elfyknome: no - no real questions - though I suspect you'll have seen that I POSTPONED it :)10:05
elfyand yea - I'd get stuff proofread first regardless of being able to publish or not 10:05
elfyhi slickymaster 10:05
slickymasterhey elfy, knome 10:06
slickymastergood morning10:06
slickymasterknome: following what I've asked you yesterday at the meeting, let me tell you that the http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs documentation that jjfrv8 and I made for http://docs.xfce.org/ is up to date10:08
slickymasterso I think it can be reused in Trusty10:08
slickymasterbluesabre: you around?10:22
elfywhy did I say mugshot was ready for us to test yesterday :|10:28
slickymasterwell, the stable PPA can be tested elfy 10:36
elfysorry - we're not doing real testing from ppa's - once it is properly released then we can call for it10:37
slickymasteroh, did't realize you where talking abou -qa tes10:38
slickymastertests ^^10:38
elfyhence the constant whine from me to not leave things too late :p10:38
brainwashUnit193: indicator weirdness?10:38
brainwashUnit193: the indicator area might turn transparent occasionally, if your panel is set to be 100% opaque10:39
brainwashand it only seems to do it when used in trusty (gtk 3.10)10:41
elfyslickymaster: same with the indicators - generally the new stuff isn't any worse than the new10:42
slickymasteryeah, I know what you mean10:43
elfy12 weeks to release10:43
elfyreally needs to be there for the b1 release10:43
slickymasterand counting... down10:44
elfyanyway - I'm sure everyone's bored of me by now lol10:44
brainwashthe gtk3 indicator stuff gets constantly improved, but we got almost no tester/feedback for them10:44
elfyI've fed back what I've seen 10:45
elfyand if we wait for people to do that then we just as well take it off the roadmap10:45
brainwashsomething like should be made available for a large group of testers10:45
elfyeveryone who get's testing calls - got the information about this10:46
brainwashnot everyone likes to install PPAs :)10:46
elfyI know 10:47
brainwashand apply some workarounds10:47
brainwashit's still a mess10:47
elfyand releasing 13.10 with a broken sound indicator wasn't ?10:47
brainwashand semi broken power manager10:48
brainwashbut now we are talking about a LTS release10:48
brainwashpeople believe that LTS means stable and almost bug free10:48
elfyyep - anyway - I'm not going to have anything to do with them now till it's out of ppa's10:49
elfybrainwash: well that's because people decided what LTS meant - instead of looking to see what it actually stands for10:49
brainwashhow could we speed up the progress of including them?10:49
elfyno idea - not anything I can do - so I'll do as I said ^^10:50
brainwashalright, I'll focus on other things in the meantime10:50
elfynot that I'm blaming anyone of course - if we had hundreds of people doing things it would be a different kettle of fish :)10:50
brainwashelfy: can you confirm bug 1272057 ?10:53
ubottubug 1272057 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Desktop icon size is not explicitly defined" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/127205710:53
bluesabreNoskcaj: https://bugs.launchpad.net/menulibre/+bug/127191410:53
ubottuUbuntu bug 1271914 in MenuLibre "Debian Sid Xfce - Menu not found, TypeError on set_select_function" [Undecided,New]10:53
brainwashelfy: this usually happens if you boot into live mode and open the desktop settings dialog to change some things10:54
ochosiknome, pleia2: i think the wallpaper-vote-meeting will be hard to make for me, would you be fine with rescheduling that to next week? (any weekday apart from monday would work for me in the evenings, all days should be fine during the day)10:54
bluesabreNoskcaj: I've nearly finished the fix for that bug10:55
bluesabreso there will be a 2.0.1 this weekend10:55
elfybrainwash: does that occur with the a2 image?10:56
slickymasterbluesabre: I'm now using a Creative webcam but I'm still getting stuck with the same issue in Mugshot10:56
bluesabreslickymaster: does it work in cheese?10:56
brainwashelfy: probably10:56
slickymasterhaven't tried it yet. Going to install it to check it out bluesabre 10:57
bluesabrethanks slickymaster10:57
bluesabrewe're depending on gstreamer, which we all know is never perfect10:57
elfybrainwash: confirmed and commented10:57
brainwashelfy: thanks11:00
brainwashelfy: I assume that 36px is the preferred size, 32 appears to be a bit too small + the icon labels get truncated even more11:02
elfywelcome :)11:02
ochosibrainwash: then why not bump it to 48px, which is again a "real" size?11:02
elfyno idea - first thing I do is turn off everything that shows on the desktop :)11:02
ochosibrainwash: ideally thunar-default-icon-size (iconview) == xfdesktop-default-icon-size11:03
brainwashochosi: 48 is huge, on top of that, xfdesktop4 4.11 has a problem with icon scaling11:04
brainwashtry changing the size from 32 -> 3311:04
ochosithat's not xfdesktop's issue11:05
brainwashochosi: ok, so what is the desired desktop icon size then?11:05
ochosior: not strictly11:05
bluesabredoes the latest xfdesktop have the code merged from thunar, or is that still in a separate branch?11:05
ochosithat's a problem with us having a png icon-theme11:05
ochosithunar offers fixed icon-sizes, so you can only set it to sizes which we have in our icon theme11:06
ochosibeing able to freely select the size has its problems11:06
ochosibrainwash: so... keeping ^ in mind, either use 16,22,24,32,48 or 6411:06
ochosithis is with 36, fwiw: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-01242014-120710pm.php11:07
brainwash32 too small, 48 too big :(11:07
ochosiit's the same in thunar11:07
brainwashyes, home + trash folder are set to 48px11:07
ochosino, those are png icons from our theme11:08
ochosithe other two aren't from our theme11:08
ochosiwe don't ship a g+ icon11:08
ochosiso it's set to "scalable"11:08
ochosiours aren't, so it just jumps to the next size11:08
brainwashyes, exactly11:08
slickymasterbluesabre: \o/ finally11:08
bluesabreslickymaster: did cheese pull another required gstreamer depends?11:09
brainwashochosi: bug 127189111:09
ubottubug 1271891 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Desktop icons does not fit well in xubuntu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/127189111:09
slickymasterbluesabre: lots of them 11:09
bluesabreif you wouldn't mind, could you figure out what the magic combination of those happens to be?11:10
slickymasterI will try it 11:10
ochosibrainwash: feel free to add a comment explaining what happens, there is currently no sane way in which we can fix this (other than setting a sane default)11:10
brainwashochosi: so we set the icon size to 32 by default then?11:11
brainwashotherwise it will be 36 if it isn't defined anywhere and change to 32 after opening the desktop settings dialog11:12
elfybluesabre: I'll go look in my other proper install at mugshot - pretty sure I've not got a bunch of gstreamer stuff preinstalled there11:13
bluesabrethanks elfy11:13
ochosibrainwash: yeah, i think 32 is fine11:14
brainwashbut this limitation is so ugly11:15
brainwash32 or 48-ish11:16
bluesabregood to know that the official python documentation for gtk3 is also wrong :/11:16
ochosibrainwash: whining about it doesn't change it though11:19
brainwasha bug report could11:20
ochosino, investigating a solution could11:20
brainwashscaling of png icons?11:21
ochosii personally don't mind the size of desktop-icons, so i have practically 0 incentive to investigate this11:21
ochosiyou can try and look into gnome-icon-theme's index.theme, they set scaling boundaries for their icons. but iirc they're all svgs, so it probably won't help us11:22
ochosibut yeah, having fixed sizes is one of the downsides (and upsides) of png11:22
brainwashok, but aren't all the icons originally saved as svgs?11:25
brainwashand then exported11:25
slickymasterbluesabre: the output of tail -150 /var/log/apt/term.log is available for you at http://paste.ubuntu.com/6807866/11:26
slickymasterbrainwash: bottom line is I reinstalled Mugshot, having previously installed gstreamer1.0-tools, and after mugshot installed cheese11:28
slickymasteronce again :P sorry brainwash was meant for bluesabre 11:28
elfyok - with -stable I got the trusty not working, with -daily I installed mugshot, no camera, installed gstreamer tools and it worked ok11:28
* slickymaster curses tab autocompletion11:28
elfythat's with a logitech c27011:28
slickymasterelfy: finally solved it11:29
slickymasterelfy: with a Creative VF005011:30
elfyI had some MS thing a while back, should have known better ... 11:31
slickymasterbluesabre: it would be great if you figure out what could be causing it in order to add same kind of warning to the documentation11:32
slickymastercould have been ^^^11:32
bluesabreslickymaster: I think tools was one of the first things I suggested, but I'll add that to recommends on the package11:33
slickymasterbluesabre: anyway I think I should add a <note warning> in the documentation, what do you think?11:35
bluesabreslickymaster: please do11:35
slickymasterok, thanks for the help11:35
knomeelfy, ok, good11:41
knomeslickymaster, ta11:41
knomeochosi, works for me, but we'll have to wait for pleia2's ack11:41
brainwashochosi: I'll wait for more feedback regarding the default desktop icons size, 32px vs ~48px11:45
brainwashthunar uses 48 and 32 appears so damn small11:46
brainwash3rd option is to set it 36 (initial icon size when the user boots into live mode or creates a new account)11:50
knomewhere's skellat again11:51
elfyknome: physically>11:52
knomeif you think that information helps me get ahold of him, yeah :P11:52
elfyohio :)11:53
elfyapaprt from that I think he's got mad work issues11:53
bluesabreknome: he's accessibile on g+11:59
bluesabrebut he's been traveling a lot it seems11:59
knomewould need him on irc, or bluesabre :P11:59
knomeneed to look at the 12.04 docs sru packaging12:00
knomesomething is broken12:00
knomei'm just installing 12.04 to be able to poke at things12:00
ochosibrainwash: no, 36 is not an option, cause as you've seen, some icons will be 48px anyway then12:00
knomelooks like some image files are missing, some aren't updated and for some reason, some css files are either not updated or can't be read or sth12:00
ochosiknome: sure, thanks12:00
ochosibrainwash: the real "bug" there atm is that the file-system icons don't exist in our icon-theme seemingly, and get inherited or something12:01
brainwashochosi: I understand, 36 -> no, 32 -> rather small, 48 ok?12:03
ochosibrainwash: yeah, i guess the only problem you could have with 48 is that the grid is bigger than thunars12:04
brainwashso lets wait for a final decision, maybe we can get some xfdesktop tweaks/changes beforehand12:06
knomebluesabre, for some reason, sudo apt-get source xubuntu-docs gets me 11.10.0...12:07
bluesabreapt-cache policy xubuntu-docs12:08
knomeinstalled: 12.04.012:09
knomepackages.ubuntu.com says 11.10.012:10
knomebut it can't show from -proposed12:10
knomemaybe apt-get source can't get from proposed either12:11
knomei can confirm that i am using the 12.04.0 package though, since the startpage says 12.0412:11
knomeaha, manually adding sources for -proposed works12:14
knomebut with that, i can confirm the package is faulty12:14
bluesabresend a msg to the ML pinging skellat, then I'll poke him on g+12:17
knomebluesabre, what was your debdiff skill level again?12:21
knomewant to polish them?12:22
bluesabregood enough, know what change I need to make?12:22
bluesabreuh oh12:22
knomedebdiff for the docs12:22
bluesabrewife awake, I might not be at this computer any longer in a few secs12:22
knomelp:xubuntu-docs/precise is what we want12:22
knomecan diff against the 11.10.0 or 12.04.0 package12:23
knomewell i'm at this point:14:20  seb128: knome, ok, well, if you get a non buggy debdiff feel free to ping me and I can sponsor that one12:24
knomeso as soon as we have that...12:24
bluesabreI can definitely have that available by this evening12:25
knomeok, ta12:25
knomeping me if you need more information12:25
bluesabrebug me when I show back up again later12:25
knomei'll try to remember12:25
knomei can also help test the package12:25
knomei have a precise vbox12:25
knomehumpf, some of the branch isn't as expected12:31
knomebut that doesn't explain it all12:31
knome*now* the branch is completely as it should12:32
jjfrv8knome, I'll be back around 23UTC and will look at backlog. If you or bluesabre have got something to test, I can do that.13:39
pmjdebruijnhttp://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-video-intel/commit/?id=e916c922ce3913712cd8a9b76ab037840b7f07f1 yay14:21
slickymasterbluesabre: I'm getting a Segmentation fault when I choose the "Capture from camera..." in the photo menu option16:03
slickymasterbluesabre: here's the debug: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6808994/16:03
slickymasterdo you want me to fil a bug?16:03
elfyyou really aren't having much luck with it at all :p16:04
slickymasterelfy: I'm starting to pull my hair off 16:14
elfyunless you only have the one :p16:15
slickymasterelfy: out. I still have plenty :P16:15
elfyslickymaster: :)16:37
slickymasterbbl ->17:17
pleia2ochosi, knome - yeah, we can move it to whenever21:02
Migougood evening everybody21:51
Noskcajhey Migou 21:56
MigouI've just resized a partition to become beta-tester. well, now I'm reading elfy's last link. I connected in case I have questions.21:58
brainwashbeta isn't even out yet :)21:58
brainwashcurrently at alpha 221:59
NoskcajMigou, then ask.21:59
Migousorry, so alpha-tester :D21:59
Noskcajbrainwash, As far as most people are concerned, the daily and the alpha are betas22:00
Noskcajjust saying22:00
brainwashNoskcaj: can I bother you again with bug 1232804 ?22:01
ubottubug 1232804 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Improve "login greeter -> desktop" transition in Xubuntu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/123280422:02
Noskcajbrainwash, yeah. what is it?22:02
Noskcajremember i know essentially no C22:02
brainwashthe current problem is, that we don't have a PPA to test xfwm4 built with MONITOR_ROOT_PIXMAP22:02
brainwashwell, Unit193's PPA does, but it also enables tabwin22:03
Unit193What's wrong with that? :P22:03
brainwashno tabwin for trusty, right?22:03
Unit193Sadly, looks not.22:04
brainwashso we need a xfwm4 package which might eventually land in trusty22:04
Unit193Cakewalk, where you want it?22:04
Noskcajbrainwash, since Unit193 has everything set up and know the patch, let him do the PPA22:05
brainwashsome separate PPA then22:05
Unit193Unless you want it in Ubuntu, then Noskcaj is the one. :P22:05
NoskcajAnd if it's actually a patch rather than a rules change, please remember the DEP3 header22:05
Migouso I've got a problem. I followed elfy's mail pointing to http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/310/builds. Then, il clicked "Xubuntu Desktopamd64 (ready) > Link to the download information"22:05
Unit193brainwash: Yes, because I plan to keep tabwin. :P22:06
Unit193Noskcaj: Always do...22:06
brainwashcompile flag change22:06
NoskcajMigou, continue22:06
Unit193Yep, 4.11.0+tabwin.git20131215.fa67b6a-1~13.10 has it all.22:06
Migouthere (http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/310/builds/61654/downloads)... but nothing does download. neither through http or rsync 22:06
Unit193brainwash: Yeah, not even a configure switch. :/22:07
NoskcajMigou, perhaps install the program testdrive-gtk , It let's you download and sync ISOs very easily22:08
NoskcajAnd it will run them in a VM or burn to usb for you22:08
brainwashUnit193: we basically need something for testing, maybe it's ok if tabwin is also included22:08
Unit193Migou: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/trusty/alpha-2/22:08
Unit193brainwash: I'd hope so, but I can understand if not.  At the very least ochosi needs to re-sync with master so it'd be a newer version than in repo.22:09
NoskcajMigou, but Unit is right, the links sometime mess up around releases22:09
brainwashUnit193: I'm just worried that we get almost no feedback for the seamless transition, this way it will be rather hard to actually include it for the final trusty release :/22:10
Unit193Bah, I was updating an init script, wait a minute and I can get you something.22:11
brainwashUnit193: can you please promote your xfwm4 package (PPA) and call for testers in the bug report?22:12
Unit193Hmm, what?22:18
Noskcajmake ppa, tell everyone about ppa, tell elfy to tell everyone22:19
brainwashjust mention that your xfwm4 package is already built with the needed flag22:19
brainwashand is ready to test22:19
Noskcajand if anything goes wrong, blame brainwash ;)22:19
brainwashor ali1234 22:19
brainwashhe did the coding :P22:20
brainwashoh, trusty does not ship lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.7 yet, still at 1.622:22
brainwash1.7 is a quite important release, especially the lock screen changes are22:23
brainwashochosi: ^ ?22:24
Noskcajbrainwash, I think blue sabre was going to try and merge from debian. I don't know the package well enough to22:24
Noskcajand i'll merge light-locker as soon as it clears NEW22:24
brainwashok :)22:25
Unit193brainwash: I liked the idea to blame you. :D  Also, current PPA xfwm is technically at a "lower version" than in repo, so would have to do some strange things to use it.  Doing a sync on the latest xfwm in Trusty then bumping version.  Rebuilding now, will upload once it clears.22:27
ali1234tabwin applies on top of my commits22:34
ali1234i run it all the time22:34
ali1234i never use it tho22:34
Unit193This won't have it.22:42
Unit193brainwash: https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/xfce  As seen on TV!  Your very own seemless transition package, all for the low low price of just 3 payments of $19.99!  ;)22:49
brainwashthat's quite expensive for a grey flicker removal :P22:51
brainwashthanks :)22:51
Unit193You said advertise.. :P22:55
Unit193forestpiskie: Hey, so with the seemless transition, we're going to want to make sure there's no regressions in https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/xfce then likely upload.22:56
Unit193forestpiskie: You already have this PPA, so you'll just pick it up.22:56
NoskcajStill no ETA on garcon, indicator or panel releases?23:20
bluesabreslickymaster: saucy or trusty?23:27
MigouSo thanks, tomorrow i'll try burning an usb key with testdrive. Chmok chmok. good night.23:50
Noskcajg'night Migou 23:50

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