| ahoneybun | howdy | 03:18 |
|---|---|---|
| === jono is now known as Guest22834 | ||
| ahoneybun | Guest22834: Jono Bacon? | 04:39 |
| valorie | oh what the hell | 06:36 |
| valorie | I need the install directions on our website, and they are gone | 06:36 |
| valorie | http://docs.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/KubuntuDocs/Installation.html | 06:36 |
| valorie | fortunately the docs still exist at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/KubuntuDocs/Installation | 06:42 |
| valorie | but why are the install docs not on our server? | 06:42 |
| Riddell | valorie: because they were incomplete at 13.10 release date | 08:45 |
| kubotu | ::workspace-bugs:: [1272637] "Remove this <widget>" option not present when right-clicking on a panel widget @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1272637 (by Rohan Dhruva) | 09:34 |
| lordievader | Good morning. | 09:41 |
| valorie | Riddell: hmmm, you would think now that they are done, they could be moved/transformed/whatever? | 09:52 |
| valorie | or at least link to the wiki | 09:52 |
| valorie | oh well, I'll try to find out more later | 09:57 |
| valorie | for now, bedtime. Tomorrow, kub session at Ubuntu User days | 09:57 |
| Riddell | valorie: good luck with that | 10:15 |
| kubotu | ::workspace-bugs:: [1272637] "Remove this <widget>" option not present when right-clicking on a panel widget @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1272637 (by Rohan Dhruva) | 11:40 |
| BluesKaj | Hiyas all | 13:16 |
| kubotu | ::workspace-bugs:: [1272687] Shutdown sometimes hangs on Kubuntu 14.04 Daily Build @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1272687 (by Marco Parillo) | 14:52 |
| ahoneybun | valorie: thats what I was wondering about the wiki docs being mirrored to the site. | 15:14 |
| ahoneybun | I'm thinking of trying to learn to package | 18:38 |
| ahoneybun | yofel: I'm going to try to fix this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tomahawk/+bug/1162601 | 18:50 |
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 1162601 in tomahawk (Ubuntu) "Please update tomahawk to 0.7.0" [Wishlist,Triaged] | 18:50 |
| yofel | ahoneybun: that would be very much appreciated :) | 19:23 |
| ahoneybun | I'm stuck at one part | 19:24 |
| ahoneybun | I installed ffw3 but it does not see it installed | 19:25 |
| ahoneybun | fftw | 19:25 |
| ahoneybun | I don't see any error messages | 19:26 |
| ahoneybun | when installing fftw3 | 19:27 |
| yofel | you installed libfftw3-dev ? | 19:28 |
| yofel | ahoneybun: there is a 0.7 in ppa:tomahawk/ppa btw., it's just not dfsg-clean | 19:30 |
| ahoneybun | I thought I had to build from source | 19:31 |
| yofel | well, yes, the package will build the source | 19:32 |
| ahoneybun | but how do I go from that ppa to fixing that bug? | 19:33 |
| yofel | well, the source package in the PPA already has the build-deps etc. figured out so less work for you | 19:34 |
| yofel | you could use 'pull-ppa-source ppa:tomahawk/ppa tomahawk saucy' to get it | 19:34 |
| yofel | if you have the kubuntu-dev-tools | 19:34 |
| ahoneybun | that is a package? | 19:35 |
| yofel | I don't think we have one. You branch lp:kubuntu-dev-tools and build a package from that | 19:36 |
| yofel | just run 'dpkg-buildpackage' inside | 19:36 |
| ahoneybun | updating my trusty vm | 19:38 |
| ahoneybun | with that ppa | 19:38 |
| ahoneybun | there are no trusty package for tomahawk | 19:38 |
| yofel | no there isn't, just get the one for saucy | 19:39 |
| ahoneybun | but I am running trusty | 19:39 |
| yofel | well, there is no trusty package, so your easiest way to get one is to fetch the saucy package and make it work for trusty | 19:40 |
| yofel | would be the same thing if you start from the archive package, except that you then have to update it from 0.6 to 0.7 too | 19:40 |
| ahoneybun | well I'm making a saucy virtualbox then will add the ppa, get kubuntu-dev-tools and pull | 19:41 |
| yofel | why? | 19:42 |
| yofel | pull-ppa-source allows you to fetch a package for any release, you don't have to be running the release that the package was built for | 19:42 |
| ahoneybun | idk how to make a saucy package work in trusty | 19:42 |
| yofel | well, you fetch the package, try to build it for trusty and fix what doesn't work | 19:43 |
| yofel | if you're lucky, you don't have to do anything | 19:43 |
| ahoneybun | but a sudo apt-get update with that ppa added fails because there is no trusty package | 19:44 |
| ahoneybun | I'm branching kubuntu-dev-tools | 19:49 |
| ahoneybun | how do you build kubuntu-dev-tools? | 19:51 |
| yofel | just cd inside the folder, run dpkg-buildpackage | 19:52 |
| yofel | do you want a shared chroot? Then I could help you with the beginning at least | 19:53 |
| ahoneybun | dpkg-buildpackage | 19:53 |
| jarkko | yofel: how packages are transformed from saucy --> trusty ? i mean are they all 1st just copied into trusty ppa or something? | 19:53 |
| ahoneybun | wait | 19:53 |
| ahoneybun | unmet deps | 19:53 |
| ahoneybun | debhelper | 19:54 |
| yofel | jarkko: when the archive opens everything is copied over. To catch packages that don't build anymore there are regular archive rebuilds | 19:54 |
| yofel | for PPA's you can either re-upload, or copy | 19:55 |
| ahoneybun | maybe do a shared chroot | 19:55 |
| yofel | ok, give me a minute | 19:55 |
| jarkko | who decides when a program gets new number? | 19:55 |
| jarkko | programmer? | 19:55 |
| jarkko | maintainer? | 19:55 |
| yofel | the application versions are up to the respective developers. I.e. kde apps being versioned 4.12.1 is the decision of the kde develops | 19:56 |
| yofel | we add the -... part after that | 19:56 |
| yofel | where -XubuntuY means that debian has X changes and ubuntu Y (so our packages are -0ubuntu1 when we upload them) | 19:57 |
| yofel | synced packages are symply e.g. -1, merged packages are -1ubuntu1 | 19:58 |
| jarkko | how much different is debian and kubuntu sotware base? | 19:58 |
| yofel | well, k/ubuntu is based on debian, so we get a lot from there. But ubuntu maintains chunks of the stack themselves like kernel, X etc. | 19:59 |
| yofel | for kubuntu the kde packages are close to the debian ones, we're just ahead of debian | 19:59 |
| jarkko | do you know why they want to maintain kernel themselves? | 19:59 |
| jarkko | or is it jus backporting drivers? | 19:59 |
| yofel | no, they maintain it themselves, and as for why #ubuntu-kernel will have to answer that | 20:00 |
| jussi | Security mostly iirc | 20:00 |
| jarkko | well i look if someone is there | 20:00 |
| jussi | but #ubuntu-kernel will of course have the best answer | 20:00 |
| jussi | jarkko: I would guess you will have better luck on a weekday than a weekend | 20:01 |
| jarkko | well it would be great if all distros could use the same software base even they would use different programs | 20:02 |
| jarkko | is that never gonna happen? | 20:03 |
| yofel | unlikely | 20:03 |
| jarkko | does the disto amount increase or decrease every year? | 20:04 |
| jarkko | would think that lot of them die because no maintaince | 20:04 |
| jussi | they do.. | 20:09 |
| jussi | there is a cycle.... | 20:09 |
| jussi | I think that is the nice thing about open source though, when there are many different methods, it allows innovation to not be stifled | 20:10 |
| yofel | ahoneybun: sorry, I have to re-setup something | 20:11 |
| * yofel loves it when lxc falls apart -.- | 20:12 | |
| jarkko | are there lots of programs or projects that got abandon or became success? | 20:13 |
| ahoneybun | yofel: np | 20:13 |
| jussi | jarkko: there are many, many that get abandoned. not so many that are successful | 20:14 |
| jussi | and ofte, something gets abandoned, then someone who likes it will pick it up. again, open source :) | 20:15 |
| jarkko | well i often see the argument that everyone can read the code and make it better etc...the fact is that no average guy cannot read the code or change it | 20:17 |
| jussi | jarkko: to a point - but Im not a coder and Ive contributed to several places. just different stuff | 20:18 |
| jussi | (like the theme of this IRC client IM using...) | 20:19 |
| yofel | ahoneybun: can you connect to 'ssh -p 2224 ubuntu@yofel.dyndns.org' ? | 20:22 |
| ahoneybun | yea need a password though | 20:34 |
| ahoneybun | yofel: need the pass though | 20:34 |
| miseria | "dicen, que el ser humano es un programa del universo; ¿sera que la muerte es solo un cambio de actividades?" bienvenidos: http://castroruben.com *temo_a_un_ser_sin_rival* | 20:35 |
| ahoneybun | i can yofel | 20:37 |
| jarkko | how did you end up using kubuntu? | 20:38 |
| yofel | ahoneybun: sorry, got disconnected. Try again | 20:41 |
| ahoneybun | still need a password | 20:41 |
| yofel | hm, I did add your ssh key from launchpad | 20:42 |
| yofel | there is no password | 20:42 |
| ahoneybun | asks for your | 20:42 |
| ahoneybun | s | 20:42 |
| yofel | do I need to add a different one? | 20:42 |
| ahoneybun | maybe I need to update it | 20:42 |
| ahoneybun | oh | 20:42 |
| ahoneybun | wait | 20:42 |
| ahoneybun | that key may be for my dual boot kubuntu not this virtual box one | 20:43 |
| yofel | it's aaron@aaron-Lenovo-IdeaPad-Y510P | 20:43 |
| ahoneybun | yea thats the dualboot one | 20:43 |
| ahoneybun | but the dual boot is on 13.10 | 20:44 |
| yofel | well, I need the one from whatever you're on right now ^^ | 20:44 |
| ahoneybun | the ssh key? | 20:45 |
| yofel | yes | 20:45 |
| yofel | public one | 20:45 |
| ahoneybun | adding it to lp | 20:47 |
| ahoneybun | added | 20:51 |
| ahoneybun | it is the one with my email | 20:51 |
| yofel | ahoneybun: try now | 20:54 |
| ahoneybun | in | 20:55 |
| yofel | small shell window ^^ | 20:55 |
| yofel | but worked, great | 20:55 |
| ahoneybun | just know that off the top of your head lol | 20:57 |
| yofel | the builddeps? | 20:57 |
| ahoneybun | yea | 20:57 |
| yofel | dpkg-checkbuilddeps printed them, see? | 20:58 |
| yofel | dpkg -i and apt-get install -f is a bit of a trick to get debs and their deps installed | 20:59 |
| ahoneybun | add the ppa ? | 21:02 |
| yofel | no need, we only need the package from it, nothing else | 21:02 |
| yofel | bah | 21:02 |
| yofel | now ^^ | 21:04 |
| ahoneybun | now what is my part to do? | 21:05 |
| yofel | a) make sure it builds for trusty. I created a pbuilder env that you can use to check ('sudo -E pbuilder build ...dsc'), b) the 0.6 package had some files removed from the upstream tarball for licensing reasons, that needs to be done for 0.7 too | 21:07 |
| yofel | after that update the debian/copyright file for 0.7 as I don't think that was done yet | 21:07 |
| yofel | removing the files from the upstream tarball means repacking it. That's unpacking the original tarball, removing the files, then creating a new 0.7.0+dfsg1 tarball | 21:09 |
| yofel | ahoneybun: thankfully, the repacking is actually easy, as someone make a debian/repack.local script in the 0.6 package that tells which files were removed last time | 21:11 |
| yofel | *made | 21:11 |
| ahoneybun | am I going the right way? | 21:11 |
| yofel | not sure, why are you building 0.6? | 21:12 |
| ahoneybun | am I? | 21:13 |
| ahoneybun | crap | 21:13 |
| yofel | just cancel it with ctrl+c | 21:13 |
| ahoneybun | so look in the 0.6 package for the files removed? | 21:14 |
| yofel | wait | 21:14 |
| yofel | ahoneybun: see, there you can already see which files where removed last time | 21:16 |
| yofel | checking the changelog also can tell something useful if people do it right | 21:16 |
| ahoneybun | so where is the 0.7? | 21:16 |
| yofel | in that folder there is already the 0.7 we need | 21:17 |
| yofel | wait | 21:17 |
| yofel | we need to start from a clean 0.7 | 21:17 |
| ahoneybun | made a backup? | 21:18 |
| yofel | just moved it out of the way so we don't need to extract the debian/ folder again | 21:19 |
| yofel | but we need an unpackaged 0.7 source as we need to rebuild the tar | 21:19 |
| ahoneybun | you moved 0.7 to packaged and then made it again | 21:19 |
| yofel | right, I extracted the 0.7.orig which is the upstream source without any modifications | 21:20 |
| ahoneybun | oh boy a bit over my head | 21:20 |
| yofel | tomahawk is a bit of a complicated thing thanks to the license issues :/ | 21:20 |
| yofel | that's why I'm helping :) | 21:21 |
| ahoneybun | but those were the same | 21:21 |
| yofel | not.. quite | 21:21 |
| ahoneybun | or was one upstream and one was ubuntu? | 21:21 |
| yofel | pretty much | 21:21 |
| yofel | see, the packaged one has quilt stuff and the debian/ folder | 21:22 |
| ahoneybun | go into 0.7 and remove the admin mac and win? | 21:22 |
| yofel | we don't need those at this point | 21:22 |
| yofel | right, remove all the files that are in the repack.local file | 21:22 |
| ahoneybun | how do I remove dirs? | 21:23 |
| yofel | ahoneybun: you can remove a dir with contents with 'rm -r dir# | 21:24 |
| yofel | erm, 'rm -r dir' | 21:24 |
| ahoneybun | those too? | 21:25 |
| yofel | yes | 21:25 |
| ahoneybun | ok | 21:25 |
| ahoneybun | ok | 21:28 |
| ahoneybun | done | 21:28 |
| yofel | good, now we need to rename the folder to match the new version it'll have. That's tomahawk-0.7.0+dfsg1 | 21:29 |
| yofel | which is added to show that it matches with http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines | 21:30 |
| ahoneybun | rename command? | 21:30 |
| yofel | move | 21:30 |
| yofel | I already moved it, now we need to create the new tar | 21:31 |
| yofel | now we have the new tarball that we can use for the package | 21:32 |
| ahoneybun | cool | 21:33 |
| yofel | so now that that's done with, we can get back to packaging | 21:33 |
| yofel | for that we'll start cleanly of from 0.6, just so the changelog is clean. We can take what we need from the 0.7 control file later | 21:33 |
| yofel | now you always start by adding a new changelog entry | 21:34 |
| ahoneybun | so you copied the debian dir from 0.6 to 0.7 | 21:35 |
| yofel | right, we'll start off that | 21:35 |
| yofel | now those 2 env variables that I set are something you want to put in your ~/.bashrc | 21:35 |
| yofel | as dch will use them to fill in the name in the changelog | 21:35 |
| yofel | hm, do you know how to use vim? | 21:36 |
| ahoneybun | nope nano is the most I have | 21:36 |
| yofel | ok, then lets try that again | 21:36 |
| ahoneybun | the env variables? | 21:37 |
| yofel | DEBEMAIL=aaronhoneycutt@kubuntu.org DEBFULLNAME="Aaron Honeycutt" | 21:37 |
| yofel | see what happens otherwise | 21:37 |
| ahoneybun | ? | 21:38 |
| yofel | in the changelog, dch now says that '-- Colin Watson <ubuntu@lxc-devel> Sat, 25 Jan 2014 21:37:58 +0000' edited it | 21:38 |
| yofel | not ... quite right | 21:38 |
| ahoneybun | oh | 21:38 |
| yofel | with them | 21:39 |
| yofel | -- Aaron Honeycutt <aaronhoneycutt@kubuntu.org> Sat, 25 Jan 2014 21:39:13 +0000 | 21:39 |
| ahoneybun | but all that is one line? in at the bottom in bashrc? | 21:39 |
| yofel | better :) | 21:39 |
| yofel | ah, no | 21:39 |
| yofel | export DEBEMAIL=aaronhoneycutt@kubuntu.org | 21:39 |
| yofel | export DEBFULLNAME="Aaron Honeycutt" | 21:39 |
| yofel | in .bashrc | 21:39 |
| yofel | so first thing you need to do is fix the version in the first line | 21:40 |
| yofel | ubuntu1, not 4 | 21:41 |
| yofel | it's the first packaging version of the 0.7 release | 21:42 |
| ahoneybun | is the log right | 21:42 |
| ahoneybun | ? | 21:42 |
| yofel | hm | 21:42 |
| yofel | I don't think it needs to be that verbose, telling why is more important | 21:43 |
| yofel | i.e. 'repack upstream tarball so it's DFSG compliant' | 21:43 |
| yofel | and before everything else. If you update to a new upstream version the first changelog line is usually: | 21:44 |
| yofel | * New upstream release (LP: #00000) | 21:44 |
| yofel | where the number is the launchpad bug number | 21:44 |
| yofel | correct :) | 21:45 |
| ahoneybun | :) | 21:45 |
| yofel | now we'll leave the version as UNRELEASED for now | 21:46 |
| ahoneybun | as 14.04 is dev? | 21:46 |
| yofel | that's changed at the very end before upload | 21:46 |
| yofel | (nope, you need a correct release set to upload) | 21:46 |
| ahoneybun | should I assign myself on lp? | 21:46 |
| yofel | dch changes behaviour when you want to edit a changelog though depending on UNRELEASED or not | 21:47 |
| ahoneybun | save? | 21:47 |
| yofel | for now save | 21:47 |
| yofel | and if you want, assign the bug to you | 21:47 |
| ahoneybun | ok | 21:47 |
| yofel | now I think we'll continue with making it buildable | 21:48 |
| yofel | so next after saving the file, run 'debuild -S' to get a source package | 21:48 |
| yofel | okay | 21:49 |
| ahoneybun | when is the beta of trusty set for? | 21:49 |
| yofel | uhm | 21:49 |
| yofel | feb 27th says https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule | 21:50 |
| yofel | tomahawk needs to be in before feb 20th btw. (feature freeze) | 21:50 |
| * jacky makes a note | 21:50 | |
| yofel | as for the debuild error, there is a debhelper support script missing | 21:51 |
| yofel | the first thing I usually do in that case, is try to install the build-deps for the package which usually takes care of things | 21:52 |
| yofel | i.e. 'sudo apt-get build-dep tomahawk' | 21:52 |
| yofel | the package that's missing here is pkg-kde-tools btw. | 21:52 |
| ahoneybun | that would not be in the list of things being installed | 21:53 |
| yofel | uh | 21:54 |
| yofel | Setting up pkg-kde-tools (0.15.12ubuntu1) ... │··········································· | 21:54 |
| yofel | it was just installed | 21:54 |
| yofel | ok, after running debuild -S, you always want to read what lintian tells you | 21:55 |
| yofel | the first 2 warnings are something we don't need to care about though usually | 21:55 |
| ahoneybun | cant prove its me pretty mcuh | 21:56 |
| ahoneybun | much | 21:56 |
| yofel | the standards version is something you usually want to update, but to be sure you can you would have to read the changelog of debian-policy 3.9.5 | 21:56 |
| yofel | so lets just leave it for now (ubuntu doesn't care about it much anyway) | 21:57 |
| yofel | debsign failed because it can't find your gpg key on the server (and that's good) | 21:57 |
| ahoneybun | ? | 21:58 |
| yofel | you would need to have it properly signed to upload it somewhere, meaning the person that'll sponsor your upload will do that | 21:58 |
| yofel | it's not required for us now | 21:58 |
| yofel | so now that we have a source package, we can feed it to pbuilder | 21:59 |
| ahoneybun | which mean me and you (mostly you) build it and someone else uploads it | 21:59 |
| yofel | pretty much, tomahawk is MOTU terretory | 21:59 |
| ahoneybun | MOTU? | 22:00 |
| yofel | everyones masters of the universe to be found in #ubuntu-motu | 22:00 |
| yofel | they take care of the stuff in universe/multiverse | 22:00 |
| ahoneybun | oh | 22:01 |
| yofel | let's start building | 22:02 |
| yofel | ok, I just froze the shell by pressing F7 | 22:03 |
| yofel | (that's byobu, pretty handy) | 22:03 |
| yofel | now lets go back up to the configuring | 22:04 |
| yofel | it's always good to first check whether there's anything not found there | 22:04 |
| yofel | for now we can be happy, as all the packages we need are already found \o/ | 22:05 |
| yofel | so continue.. | 22:05 |
| yofel | ahoneybun: still with me? ^^ | 22:24 |
| ahoneybun | yea | 22:24 |
| yofel | package is almost done building | 22:25 |
| ahoneybun | yes so far so good | 22:27 |
| yofel | ok, the package is done building now, and it even built successfully | 22:27 |
| ahoneybun | not in my screen | 22:27 |
| ahoneybun | stuck at 88% | 22:27 |
| yofel | connection lost maybe? | 22:28 |
| yofel | you got disconnected a few times here, so maybe ssh gave up at some point | 22:28 |
| ahoneybun | back | 22:29 |
| yofel | I've set up pbuilder to always stay in the chroot at the end. (personal preference) | 22:29 |
| yofel | usually it would've quit and saved the files | 22:29 |
| yofel | now lets go back up a bit and look at the debhelper output | 22:30 |
| yofel | DH_VERBOSE is set in pbuilderrc so it's a bit long | 22:30 |
| yofel | ok so my pbuilder set in the chroot has some pbuilder hooks in ~/.pbuilder-hooks | 22:31 |
| yofel | 2 of those run lintian and list-missing on the finished package | 22:31 |
| yofel | so as you see, lintian suddenly shows a lot more than it did before | 22:32 |
| ahoneybun | bbl | 22:33 |
| yofel | ok | 22:33 |
| yofel | ping me when you're back | 22:33 |
| ahoneybun | yofel: ping! | 22:55 |
| * valorie goes to do the Kubuntu presentation in #ubuntu-classroom | 22:56 | |
| * ahoneybun follows | 22:56 | |
| valorie | oooo, a kub. posse | 22:57 |
| jarkko | joined too | 22:57 |
| jarkko | but | 22:57 |
| valorie | \o/ | 22:57 |
| valorie | but? | 22:58 |
| yofel | ahoneybun: pong | 22:58 |
| * yofel passes valorie a cup of coffee | 22:58 | |
| yofel | I'll idle around in -chat :) | 22:58 |
| valorie | danke schon, yofel | 22:58 |
| jarkko | i just read about lubuntu and xubuntu...the another had something like 12 testers for alpha 2...i just wonder why we need so many different distros...man power is so divided | 23:00 |
| valorie | they aren't whole distros | 23:01 |
| valorie | flavors of ubuntu | 23:01 |
| valorie | but you are asking why have both pear and apple trees | 23:02 |
| jarkko | but how they differ from kubuntu then? | 23:02 |
| jarkko | they were asking package managers too... | 23:02 |
| valorie | listen and learn! | 23:02 |
| * valorie has to concentrate on the session | 23:03 | |
| jacky | jarkko: this is freedom on steroids | 23:15 |
| jacky | more freedom is better than *no* freedom | 23:15 |
| valorie | jarkko: I get what you are saying, but there is nobody in charge | 23:22 |
| valorie | we all do as we like, find those with whom we want to work, etc. | 23:22 |
| valorie | freedom can be messy | 23:23 |
| jarkko | i think it would be better if some distros would eat some others | 23:23 |
| valorie | it does sorta happen | 23:26 |
| valorie | the code stays out there, bit-rotting, but the people move on to other projects | 23:26 |
| valorie | when you think of all the ubuntu flavors, for instance, they each fill a niche | 23:27 |
| valorie | ubuntu-kylin we can't fill | 23:27 |
| valorie | for instance | 23:27 |
| jarkko | what's ubuntu-kylin? | 23:28 |
| valorie | edubuntu, same | 23:28 |
| valorie | it's in Chinese | 23:28 |
| valorie | basically created/packaged by Chinese | 23:28 |
| jarkko | i heard that chinese use lot of linux | 23:29 |
| jarkko | can anyone explain why we have nowadays deb and rpm? what happened at the time there was only 1 | 23:29 |
| Noskcaj | It's even the national OS now | 23:30 |
| valorie | redhat developed rpm a looooong time ago | 23:30 |
| Noskcaj | Because different distros use different systems. | 23:30 |
| valorie | for their own commercial reasons | 23:30 |
| valorie | everybody chooses what works best for them | 23:30 |
| jarkko | i doubt many will cycle many distros, if the ones that they try work | 23:31 |
| valorie | oh gosh, some are dilettants and try new stuff just for the heck of it | 23:34 |
| valorie | me, I'm sorta stubborn | 23:34 |
| valorie | I love kubuntu and will stay here | 23:35 |
| jarkko | does installing other DEs on kubuntu work just from software center? | 23:59 |
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