[03:18] <ahoneybun> howdy
[04:39] <ahoneybun> Guest22834: Jono Bacon?
[06:36] <valorie> oh what the hell
[06:36] <valorie> I need the install directions on our website, and they are gone
[06:36] <valorie> http://docs.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/KubuntuDocs/Installation.html
[06:42] <valorie> fortunately the docs still exist at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/KubuntuDocs/Installation
[06:42] <valorie> but why are the install docs not on our server?
[08:45] <Riddell> valorie: because they were incomplete at 13.10 release date
[09:34] <kubotu> ::workspace-bugs:: [1272637] "Remove this <widget>" option not present when right-clicking on a panel widget @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1272637 (by Rohan Dhruva)
[09:41] <lordievader> Good morning.
[09:52] <valorie> Riddell: hmmm, you would think now that they are done, they could be moved/transformed/whatever?
[09:52] <valorie> or at least link to the wiki
[09:57] <valorie> oh well, I'll try to find out more later
[09:57] <valorie> for now, bedtime. Tomorrow, kub session at Ubuntu User days
[10:15] <Riddell> valorie: good luck with that
[11:40] <kubotu> ::workspace-bugs:: [1272637] "Remove this <widget>" option not present when right-clicking on a panel widget @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1272637 (by Rohan Dhruva)
[13:16] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[14:52] <kubotu> ::workspace-bugs:: [1272687] Shutdown sometimes hangs on Kubuntu 14.04 Daily Build @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1272687 (by Marco Parillo)
[15:14] <ahoneybun> valorie: thats what I was wondering about the wiki docs being mirrored to the site.
[18:38] <ahoneybun> I'm thinking of trying to learn to package
[18:50] <ahoneybun> yofel: I'm going to try to fix this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tomahawk/+bug/1162601
[19:23] <yofel> ahoneybun: that would be very much appreciated :)
[19:24] <ahoneybun> I'm stuck at one part
[19:25] <ahoneybun> I installed ffw3 but it does not see it installed
[19:25] <ahoneybun> fftw
[19:26] <ahoneybun> I don't see any error messages
[19:27] <ahoneybun> when installing fftw3
[19:28] <yofel> you installed libfftw3-dev ?
[19:30] <yofel> ahoneybun: there is a 0.7 in ppa:tomahawk/ppa btw., it's just not dfsg-clean
[19:31] <ahoneybun> I thought I had to build from source
[19:32] <yofel> well, yes, the package will build the source
[19:33] <ahoneybun> but how do I go from that ppa to fixing that bug?
[19:34] <yofel> well, the source package in the PPA already has the build-deps etc. figured out so less work for you
[19:34] <yofel> you could use 'pull-ppa-source ppa:tomahawk/ppa tomahawk saucy' to get it
[19:34] <yofel> if you have the kubuntu-dev-tools
[19:35] <ahoneybun> that is a package?
[19:36] <yofel> I don't think we have one. You branch lp:kubuntu-dev-tools and build a package from that
[19:36] <yofel> just run 'dpkg-buildpackage' inside 
[19:38] <ahoneybun> updating my trusty vm 
[19:38] <ahoneybun> with that ppa
[19:38] <ahoneybun> there are no trusty package for tomahawk
[19:39] <yofel> no there isn't, just get the one for saucy
[19:39] <ahoneybun> but I am running trusty
[19:40] <yofel> well, there is no trusty package, so your easiest way to get one is to fetch the saucy package and make it work for trusty
[19:40] <yofel> would be the same thing if you start from the archive package, except that you then have to update it from 0.6 to 0.7 too
[19:41] <ahoneybun> well I'm making a saucy virtualbox then will add the ppa, get kubuntu-dev-tools and pull 
[19:42] <yofel> why?
[19:42] <yofel> pull-ppa-source allows you to fetch a package for any release, you don't have to be running the release that the package was built for
[19:42] <ahoneybun> idk how to make a saucy package work in trusty
[19:43] <yofel> well, you fetch the package, try to build it for trusty and fix what doesn't work
[19:43] <yofel> if you're lucky, you don't have to do anything
[19:44] <ahoneybun> but a sudo apt-get update with that ppa added fails because there is no trusty package
[19:49] <ahoneybun> I'm branching kubuntu-dev-tools 
[19:51] <ahoneybun> how do you build kubuntu-dev-tools?
[19:52] <yofel> just cd inside the folder, run dpkg-buildpackage
[19:53] <yofel> do you want a shared chroot? Then I could help you with the beginning at least
[19:53] <ahoneybun>  dpkg-buildpackage
[19:53] <jarkko> yofel: how packages are transformed from saucy --> trusty ? i mean are they all 1st just copied into trusty ppa or something?
[19:53] <ahoneybun> wait
[19:53] <ahoneybun> unmet deps
[19:54] <ahoneybun> debhelper
[19:54] <yofel> jarkko: when the archive opens everything is copied over. To catch packages that don't build anymore there are regular archive rebuilds 
[19:55] <yofel> for PPA's you can either re-upload, or copy
[19:55] <ahoneybun> maybe do a shared chroot
[19:55] <yofel> ok, give me a minute
[19:55] <jarkko> who decides when a program gets new number? 
[19:55] <jarkko> programmer?
[19:55] <jarkko> maintainer?
[19:56] <yofel> the application versions are up to the respective developers. I.e. kde apps being versioned 4.12.1 is the decision of the kde develops
[19:56] <yofel> we add the -... part after that
[19:57] <yofel> where -XubuntuY means that debian has X changes and ubuntu Y (so our packages are -0ubuntu1 when we upload them)
[19:58] <yofel> synced packages are symply e.g. -1, merged packages are -1ubuntu1
[19:58] <jarkko> how much different is debian and kubuntu sotware base?
[19:59] <yofel> well, k/ubuntu is based on debian, so we get a lot from there. But ubuntu maintains chunks of the stack themselves like kernel, X etc.
[19:59] <yofel> for kubuntu the kde packages are close to the debian ones, we're just ahead of debian
[19:59] <jarkko> do you know why they want to maintain kernel themselves?
[19:59] <jarkko> or is it jus backporting drivers?
[20:00] <yofel> no, they maintain it themselves, and as for why #ubuntu-kernel will have to answer that
[20:00] <jussi> Security mostly iirc
[20:00] <jarkko> well i look if someone is there
[20:00] <jussi> but #ubuntu-kernel will of course have the best answer
[20:01] <jussi> jarkko: I would guess you will have better luck on a weekday than a weekend
[20:02] <jarkko> well it would be great if all distros could use the same software base even they would use different programs
[20:03] <jarkko> is that never gonna happen?
[20:03] <yofel> unlikely
[20:04] <jarkko> does the disto amount increase or decrease every year?
[20:04] <jarkko> would think that lot of them die because no maintaince
[20:09] <jussi> they do..
[20:09] <jussi> there is a cycle....
[20:10] <jussi> I think that is the nice thing about open source though, when there are many different methods, it allows innovation to not be stifled
[20:11] <yofel> ahoneybun: sorry, I have to re-setup something
[20:12]  * yofel loves it when lxc falls apart -.-
[20:13] <jarkko> are there lots of programs or projects that got abandon or became success?
[20:13] <ahoneybun> yofel: np
[20:14] <jussi> jarkko: there are many, many that get abandoned. not so many that are successful
[20:15] <jussi> and ofte, something gets abandoned, then someone who likes it will pick it up. again, open source :)
[20:17] <jarkko> well i often see the argument that everyone can read the code and make it better etc...the fact is that no average guy cannot read the code or change it
[20:18] <jussi> jarkko: to a point - but Im not a coder and Ive contributed to several places. just different stuff
[20:19] <jussi> (like the theme of this IRC client IM using...)
[20:22] <yofel> ahoneybun: can you connect to 'ssh -p 2224 ubuntu@yofel.dyndns.org' ?
[20:34] <ahoneybun> yea need a password though
[20:34] <ahoneybun> yofel: need the pass though
[20:35] <miseria> "dicen, que el ser humano es un programa del universo; ¿sera que la muerte es solo un cambio de actividades?" bienvenidos: http://castroruben.com *temo_a_un_ser_sin_rival*
[20:37] <ahoneybun> i can yofel
[20:38] <jarkko> how did you end up using kubuntu?
[20:41] <yofel> ahoneybun: sorry, got disconnected. Try again
[20:41] <ahoneybun> still need a password
[20:42] <yofel> hm, I did add your ssh key from launchpad
[20:42] <yofel> there is no password
[20:42] <ahoneybun> asks for your
[20:42] <ahoneybun> s
[20:42] <yofel> do I need to add a different one?
[20:42] <ahoneybun> maybe I need to update it
[20:42] <ahoneybun> oh
[20:42] <ahoneybun> wait
[20:43] <ahoneybun> that key may be for my dual boot kubuntu not this virtual box one
[20:43] <yofel> it's aaron@aaron-Lenovo-IdeaPad-Y510P
[20:43] <ahoneybun> yea thats the dualboot one
[20:44] <ahoneybun> but the dual boot is on 13.10
[20:44] <yofel> well, I need the one from whatever you're on right now ^^
[20:45] <ahoneybun> the ssh key?
[20:45] <yofel> yes
[20:45] <yofel> public one
[20:47] <ahoneybun> adding it to lp
[20:51] <ahoneybun> added
[20:51] <ahoneybun> it is the one with my email
[20:54] <yofel> ahoneybun: try now
[20:55] <ahoneybun> in
[20:55] <yofel> small shell window ^^
[20:55] <yofel> but worked, great
[20:57] <ahoneybun> just know that off the top of your head lol
[20:57] <yofel> the builddeps? 
[20:57] <ahoneybun> yea 
[20:58] <yofel> dpkg-checkbuilddeps printed them, see?
[20:59] <yofel> dpkg -i and apt-get install -f is a bit of a trick to get debs and their deps installed
[21:02] <ahoneybun> add the ppa ?
[21:02] <yofel> no need, we only need the package from it, nothing else
[21:02] <yofel> bah
[21:04] <yofel> now ^^
[21:05] <ahoneybun> now what is my part to do?
[21:07] <yofel> a) make sure it builds for trusty. I created a pbuilder env that you can use to check ('sudo -E pbuilder build ...dsc'), b) the 0.6 package had some files removed from the upstream tarball for licensing reasons, that needs to be done for 0.7 too
[21:07] <yofel> after that update the debian/copyright file for 0.7 as I don't think that was done yet
[21:09] <yofel> removing the files from the upstream tarball means repacking it. That's unpacking the original tarball, removing the files, then creating a new 0.7.0+dfsg1 tarball
[21:11] <yofel> ahoneybun: thankfully, the repacking is actually easy, as someone make a debian/repack.local script in the 0.6 package that tells which files were removed last time
[21:11] <yofel> *made
[21:11] <ahoneybun> am I going the right way?
[21:12] <yofel> not sure, why are you building 0.6?
[21:13] <ahoneybun> am I?
[21:13] <ahoneybun> crap
[21:13] <yofel> just cancel it with ctrl+c
[21:14] <ahoneybun> so look in the 0.6 package for the files removed?
[21:14] <yofel> wait
[21:16] <yofel> ahoneybun: see, there you can already see which files where removed last time
[21:16] <yofel> checking the changelog also can tell something useful if people do it right
[21:16] <ahoneybun> so where is the 0.7?
[21:17] <yofel> in that folder there is already the 0.7 we need
[21:17] <yofel> wait
[21:17] <yofel> we need to start from  a clean 0.7
[21:18] <ahoneybun> made a backup?
[21:19] <yofel> just moved it out of the way so we don't need to extract the debian/ folder again
[21:19] <yofel> but we need an unpackaged 0.7 source as we need to rebuild the tar
[21:19] <ahoneybun> you moved 0.7 to packaged and then made it again
[21:20] <yofel> right, I extracted the 0.7.orig which is the upstream source without any modifications
[21:20] <ahoneybun> oh boy a bit over my head 
[21:20] <yofel> tomahawk is a bit of a complicated thing thanks to the license issues :/
[21:21] <yofel> that's why I'm helping :)
[21:21] <ahoneybun> but those were the same
[21:21] <yofel> not.. quite
[21:21] <ahoneybun> or was one upstream and one was ubuntu?
[21:21] <yofel> pretty much
[21:22] <yofel> see, the packaged one has quilt stuff and the debian/  folder
[21:22] <ahoneybun> go into 0.7 and remove the admin mac and win?
[21:22] <yofel> we don't need those at this point
[21:22] <yofel> right, remove all the files that are in the repack.local file
[21:23] <ahoneybun> how do I remove dirs? 
[21:24] <yofel> ahoneybun: you can remove a dir with contents with 'rm -r dir#
[21:24] <yofel> erm, 'rm -r dir'
[21:25] <ahoneybun> those too?
[21:25] <yofel> yes
[21:25] <ahoneybun> ok
[21:28] <ahoneybun> ok
[21:28] <ahoneybun> done
[21:29] <yofel> good, now we need to rename the folder to match the new version it'll have. That's tomahawk-0.7.0+dfsg1
[21:30] <yofel> which is added to show that it matches with http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines
[21:30] <ahoneybun> rename command?
[21:30] <yofel> move 
[21:31] <yofel> I already moved it, now we need to create the new tar
[21:32] <yofel> now we have the new tarball that we can use for the package
[21:33] <ahoneybun> cool
[21:33] <yofel> so now that that's done with, we can get back to packaging
[21:33] <yofel> for that we'll start cleanly of from 0.6, just so the changelog is clean. We can take what we need from the 0.7 control file later
[21:34] <yofel> now you always start by adding a new changelog entry
[21:35] <ahoneybun> so you copied the debian dir from 0.6 to 0.7
[21:35] <yofel> right, we'll start off that
[21:35] <yofel> now those 2 env variables that I set are something you want to put in your ~/.bashrc 
[21:35] <yofel> as dch will use them to fill in the name in the changelog
[21:36] <yofel> hm, do you know how to use vim?
[21:36] <ahoneybun> nope nano is the most I have
[21:36] <yofel> ok, then lets try that again
[21:37] <ahoneybun> the env variables?
[21:37] <yofel> DEBEMAIL=aaronhoneycutt@kubuntu.org DEBFULLNAME="Aaron Honeycutt"
[21:37] <yofel> see what happens otherwise
[21:38] <ahoneybun> ?
[21:38] <yofel> in the changelog, dch now says that '-- Colin Watson <ubuntu@lxc-devel>  Sat, 25 Jan 2014 21:37:58 +0000' edited it
[21:38] <yofel> not ... quite right
[21:38] <ahoneybun> oh
[21:39] <yofel> with them
[21:39] <yofel> -- Aaron Honeycutt <aaronhoneycutt@kubuntu.org>  Sat, 25 Jan 2014 21:39:13 +0000
[21:39] <ahoneybun> but all that is one line? in at the bottom in bashrc?
[21:39] <yofel> better :)
[21:39] <yofel> ah, no
[21:39] <yofel> export DEBEMAIL=aaronhoneycutt@kubuntu.org
[21:39] <yofel> export DEBFULLNAME="Aaron Honeycutt"
[21:39] <yofel> in .bashrc
[21:40] <yofel> so first thing you need to do is fix the version in the first line
[21:41] <yofel> ubuntu1, not 4
[21:42] <yofel> it's the first packaging version of the 0.7 release
[21:42] <ahoneybun> is the log right
[21:42] <ahoneybun> ?
[21:42] <yofel> hm
[21:43] <yofel> I don't think it needs to be that verbose, telling why is more important
[21:43] <yofel> i.e. 'repack upstream tarball so it's DFSG compliant'
[21:44] <yofel> and before everything else. If you update to a new upstream version the first changelog line is usually:
[21:44] <yofel> * New upstream release (LP: #00000)
[21:44] <yofel> where the number is the launchpad bug number
[21:45] <yofel> correct :)
[21:45] <ahoneybun> :)
[21:46] <yofel> now we'll leave the version as UNRELEASED for now
[21:46] <ahoneybun> as 14.04 is dev?
[21:46] <yofel> that's changed at the very end before upload
[21:46] <yofel> (nope, you need a correct release set to upload)
[21:46] <ahoneybun> should I assign myself on lp?
[21:47] <yofel> dch changes behaviour when you want to edit a changelog though depending on UNRELEASED or not
[21:47] <ahoneybun> save?
[21:47] <yofel> for now save
[21:47] <yofel> and if you want, assign the bug to you
[21:47] <ahoneybun> ok
[21:48] <yofel> now I think we'll continue with making it buildable
[21:48] <yofel> so next after saving the file, run 'debuild -S' to get a source package
[21:49] <yofel> okay
[21:49] <ahoneybun> when is the beta of trusty set for?
[21:49] <yofel> uhm
[21:50] <yofel> feb 27th says https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
[21:50] <yofel> tomahawk needs to be in before feb 20th btw. (feature freeze)
[21:50]  * jacky makes a note
[21:51] <yofel> as for the debuild error, there is a debhelper support script missing
[21:52] <yofel> the first thing I usually do in that case, is try to install the build-deps for the package which usually takes care of things
[21:52] <yofel> i.e. 'sudo apt-get build-dep tomahawk'
[21:52] <yofel> the package that's missing here is pkg-kde-tools btw.
[21:53] <ahoneybun> that would not be in the list of things being installed
[21:54] <yofel> uh
[21:54] <yofel> Setting up pkg-kde-tools (0.15.12ubuntu1) ...                                                                                                  │···········································
[21:54] <yofel> it was just installed
[21:55] <yofel> ok, after running debuild -S, you always want to read what lintian tells you
[21:55] <yofel> the first 2 warnings are something we don't need to care about though usually
[21:56] <ahoneybun> cant prove its me pretty mcuh
[21:56] <ahoneybun> much
[21:56] <yofel> the standards version is something you usually want to update, but to be sure you can you would have to read the changelog of debian-policy 3.9.5
[21:57] <yofel> so lets just leave it for now (ubuntu doesn't care about it much anyway)
[21:57] <yofel> debsign failed because it can't find your gpg key on the server (and that's good)
[21:58] <ahoneybun> ?
[21:58] <yofel> you would need to have it properly signed to upload it somewhere, meaning the person that'll sponsor your upload will do that
[21:58] <yofel> it's not required for us now
[21:59] <yofel> so now that we have a source package, we can feed it to pbuilder
[21:59] <ahoneybun> which mean me and you (mostly you) build it and someone else uploads it
[21:59] <yofel> pretty much, tomahawk is MOTU terretory
[22:00] <ahoneybun> MOTU?
[22:00] <yofel> everyones masters of the universe to be found in #ubuntu-motu
[22:00] <yofel> they take care of the stuff in universe/multiverse
[22:01] <ahoneybun> oh
[22:02] <yofel> let's start building
[22:03] <yofel> ok, I just froze the shell by pressing F7
[22:03] <yofel> (that's byobu, pretty handy)
[22:04] <yofel> now lets go back up to the configuring
[22:04] <yofel> it's always good to first check whether there's anything not found there
[22:05] <yofel> for now we can be happy, as all the packages we need are already found \o/
[22:05] <yofel> so continue..
[22:24] <yofel> ahoneybun: still with me? ^^
[22:24] <ahoneybun> yea
[22:25] <yofel> package is almost done building
[22:27] <ahoneybun> yes so far so good
[22:27] <yofel> ok, the package is done building now, and it even built successfully
[22:27] <ahoneybun> not in my screen
[22:27] <ahoneybun> stuck at 88%
[22:28] <yofel> connection lost maybe?
[22:28] <yofel> you got disconnected a few times here, so maybe ssh gave up at some point
[22:29] <ahoneybun> back
[22:29] <yofel> I've set up pbuilder to always stay in the chroot at the end. (personal preference)
[22:29] <yofel> usually it would've quit and saved the files
[22:30] <yofel> now lets go back up a bit and look at the debhelper output
[22:30] <yofel> DH_VERBOSE is set in pbuilderrc so it's a bit long
[22:31] <yofel> ok so my pbuilder set in the chroot has some pbuilder hooks in ~/.pbuilder-hooks
[22:31] <yofel> 2 of those run lintian and list-missing on the finished package
[22:32] <yofel> so as you see, lintian suddenly shows a lot more than it did before
[22:33] <ahoneybun> bbl
[22:33] <yofel> ok
[22:33] <yofel> ping me when you're back
[22:55] <ahoneybun> yofel: ping!
[22:56]  * valorie goes to do the Kubuntu presentation in #ubuntu-classroom
[22:56]  * ahoneybun follows
[22:57] <valorie> oooo, a kub. posse
[22:57] <jarkko> joined too
[22:57] <jarkko> but
[22:57] <valorie> \o/
[22:58] <valorie> but?
[22:58] <yofel> ahoneybun: pong
[22:58]  * yofel passes valorie a cup of coffee
[22:58] <yofel> I'll idle around in -chat :)
[22:58] <valorie> danke schon, yofel
[23:00] <jarkko> i just read about lubuntu and xubuntu...the another had something like 12 testers for alpha 2...i just wonder why we need so many different distros...man power is so divided
[23:01] <valorie> they aren't whole distros
[23:01] <valorie> flavors of ubuntu
[23:02] <valorie> but you are asking why have both pear and apple trees
[23:02] <jarkko> but how they differ from kubuntu then?
[23:02] <jarkko> they were asking package managers too...
[23:02] <valorie> listen and learn!
[23:03]  * valorie has to concentrate on the session
[23:15] <jacky> jarkko: this is freedom on steroids
[23:15] <jacky> more freedom is better than *no* freedom
[23:22] <valorie> jarkko: I get what you are saying, but there is nobody in charge
[23:22] <valorie> we all do as we like, find those with whom we want to work, etc.
[23:23] <valorie> freedom can be messy
[23:23] <jarkko> i think it would be better if some distros would eat some others
[23:26] <valorie> it does sorta happen
[23:26] <valorie> the code stays out there, bit-rotting, but the people move on to other projects
[23:27] <valorie> when you think of all the ubuntu flavors, for instance, they each fill a niche
[23:27] <valorie> ubuntu-kylin we can't fill
[23:27] <valorie> for instance
[23:28] <jarkko> what's ubuntu-kylin?
[23:28] <valorie> edubuntu, same
[23:28] <valorie> it's in Chinese
[23:28] <valorie> basically created/packaged by Chinese
[23:29] <jarkko> i heard that chinese use lot of linux
[23:29] <jarkko> can anyone explain why we have nowadays deb and rpm? what happened at the time there was only 1
[23:30] <Noskcaj> It's even the national OS now
[23:30] <valorie> redhat developed rpm a looooong time ago
[23:30] <Noskcaj> Because different distros use different systems. 
[23:30] <valorie> for their own commercial reasons
[23:30] <valorie> everybody chooses what works best for them
[23:31] <jarkko> i doubt many will cycle many distros, if the ones that they try work
[23:34] <valorie> oh gosh, some are dilettants and try new stuff just for the heck of it
[23:34] <valorie> me, I'm sorta stubborn
[23:35] <valorie> I love kubuntu and will stay here
[23:59] <jarkko> does installing other DEs on kubuntu work just from software center?