[19:43] <genii> It occurs to me a simple videoconferencing system might be built by streaming webcam through ffserver to an URL, the server there combines the separate feeds into one feed like here: https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/Create%20a%20mosaic%20out%20of%20several%20input%20videos
[19:53]  * genii slides BobJonkman a fresh beverage
[19:54]  * BobJonkman is grateful!
[19:54] <genii> BobJonkman: Been thinking about this videoconferencing still.
[19:54] <genii> It occurs to me a simple videoconferencing system might be built by streaming webcam through ffserver to an URL, the server there combines the separate feeds into one feed like here: https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/Create%20a%20mosaic%20out%20of%20several%20input%20videos
[19:54] <BobJonkman> :)
[19:55]  * BobJonkman checks it out
[19:56] <BobJonkman> OK, but why not do that at the client?
[19:56] <BobJonkman> ie. client receives four streams from peers, and creates the mosaic.
[19:57] <BobJonkman> (I'd like to avoid any central server)
[19:58] <BobJonkman> Perhaps a TURN or STUN server is necessary to deal with NAT routers
[19:58] <BobJonkman> But those can drop off once the peer connection is established
[19:59] <BobJonkman> Doing it at the client also lets each client cherrypick which streams to include
[20:00] <BobJonkman> So if Alice, Carol, Dave and Malcolm are participating in a conference, perhaps Alice has enough bandwidth to view Carol, Dave and Malcolm all at the same time
[20:01] <BobJonkman> But if Carol is limited in BW, she might only view Alice.
[20:02] <BobJonkman> And there's a possibility of asymmetrical feeds -- I might view your video, but you don't view mine (although that incurs a BW hit for both of us)
[20:02]  * genii sips and contemplates
[20:03] <dougdastew1> what about hangout on air??
[20:03] <BobJonkman> dougdastew1: I think I'd like to try that for the next Ubuntu-ca meetign
[20:03] <dougdastew1> is it more of a oneway thing?
[20:03] <genii> BobJonkman: My first thought was: Have people use their VLC to stream to a specific IP which has fairly good downstream. Then combine the feeds there and shove them to another machine which has high upstream for re-broadcast
[20:04] <BobJonkman> But Hangouts on Air require a central server (google Plus and/or YouTube)
[20:04] <BobJonkman> genii: The nice thing about that is that BW is constant, and predictable.
[20:05] <BobJonkman> The client only connects one stream to the server, and receives only one feed from the server, regardless of how many participants there are
[20:06] <BobJonkman> dougdastew1: From what I understand about Hangouts On Air is that there are up to 10 peer-to-peer (or maybe client-to-server) participants, but any number of viewers who can stream a view-only feed from the server without participating.
[20:07] <BobJonkman> Depending on how easy it is to switch in and out the participants, it might be a good way to allow a large crowd to hold a meeting
[20:08] <BobJonkman> In the meeting last Thursday we had three people lined up to participate.
[20:08] <dougdastew1> I am looking at some on air stuff now
[20:08] <BobJonkman> dougdastew1: Did you drop out to allow someone else in?
[20:08]  * BobJonkman was greedy and hogged a stream for the entire duration
[20:09] <genii> Yeah, sorry, I did too ....
[20:10] <dougdastew1> Yes I was just exploring options
[20:13] <genii> To make my Firefox use less bandwidth for RTC I changed the media.navigator.video.default_height andmedia.navigator.video.default_width to lowest settings
[20:14] <genii> I probably looked pretty blocky to others :)
[20:14] <BobJonkman> Didn't really notice.
[20:14] <BobJonkman> genii: Was that you with the noisy gas pipe?
[20:15] <genii> Heh, yes
[20:15] <BobJonkman> Although it seemed to me the noise came and went with Jeff Smith..
[20:17] <genii> I wonder if there's some way to just multiplex feeds. Like, combine 4 into one so 40 people, 2x2 in each thumbnail or something
[20:19] <BobJonkman> genii Sounds like an ideal scheme for peer-to-peer.  I aggregate two friends, and send it to you. You aggregate that with another friend, and send it to someone else.
[20:20] <BobJonkman> Just need to find a way to limit that so we don't regress to infinity
[20:30] <genii> BobJonkman: That was my thinking, yes
[20:37]  * genii sips and tinkers with ffmpeg
[20:38] <genii> In other news, for the Project Ara Scout projects, i made a cellphone out of cardboard :)
[20:41] <genii> http://imagebin.org/289368 shows all the layers of my "Dagwood Sandwich" idea for modular phone you snap together or apart
[20:58] <dougdastew1> BobJonkman: With hangout onair you can only have 10 participants, others can only view and/or ask typed questions.
[21:05] <dougdastew1> https://support.google.com/plus/answer/2553119?hl=en&ref_topic=2553242&rd=1
[21:32] <genii> It might be I've had too much coffee. But a decentralized system for aggregation of feeds is intriguing me now. The idea reminds me sort of how underground cells work. Small groups attached to each other talk to other small groups who talk to other small groups, etc