[00:57] <remmy> Heyo, are any of the Ubuntu Gnome devs on at this hour?
[00:58] <Noskcaj> remmy, I'm here
[00:58] <Noskcaj> The head dev is enjoying the australia day holiday
[01:03] <remmy> I was just wanting to ask a question. I haven't seen it discussed in the mailing list either. Would it be possible to switch the default Email client of the distro to Thunderbird instead of Evolution? Has anyone looked at this in the past?
[01:12] <Noskcaj> remmy, I think the focus on being gnome makes that unlikely, but ask darkxst next time he is around
[01:16] <remmy> Well, I personally do think that choosing Thunderbird would bring Ubuntu Gnome in line with Ubuntu and Xubuntu in terms of default Email client and that wouldn't be a bad choice, I'd like to hear what the devs would think of such a move and I'll ask whenever the head dev gets back
[01:36] <roasted> remmy: thing is thunderbird, while awesome, is a dead project.
[01:36] <roasted> evolution might be inferior in some ways but it still has exchange integration, which is a huge bonus - thunderbird does not unless you install 3 different add-ons
[01:37] <roasted> remmy: likewise, there has been some distant discussion about the Yorba project known as Geary, a simple email client. I have suspicion once Geary matures a bit they'll swap Evolution for Geary.
[01:39] <remmy> I know that it is currently feature frozen, but the community have been adding features of their own, and personally Lightning I find offers a lot more functionality than the Evolution.
[01:40] <remmy> equivalant
[01:48] <renebarbosa> ubuntu gnome has a goal to offer a "pure" gnome experience over an Ubuntu core
[01:48] <renebarbosa> so, it's fine with evolution (the GNOME default mail client)
[01:49] <renebarbosa> btw, you can install Thunderbird on it easily
[01:54] <remmy> So why is Firefox chosen over Web? Also, I haven't been able to get the Gnome Calandar to sync with the Gnome Shell one, nor have I been able to get the notifications to integrate, I've tried all manner of plugins too.
[01:58] <roasted> remmy: Firefox makes sense because it's more compatible and continuously updated. Web, honestly, kind of sucks.
[01:58] <roasted> remmy: Thunderbird's development stopped.
[01:58] <roasted> It's great and all, but with dead development you have to wonder if it makes sense adopting it knowing it'll be stuck in time forever.
[01:58] <roasted> couple that with the potential, yet distant-if-it-ever-happens future of Geary being integrated by default, it kind of questions why bother
[01:59] <roasted> especially given the fact other apps are easily installable...
[01:59] <roasted> I mean, apt-get install or fire up software center. So easy. Defaults hardly matter.
[02:01] <remmy> I'd prefer to have a Gnome distro where Thunderbird was properly configured to work with the environment. And as I have said, Thunderbird still gets community feature contributions, not Mozilla contributions, and add-ons still add quite a bit of functionality.
[02:02] <remmy> Moreso than Evolution
[02:03] <roasted> remmy: no matter how you slice it, as of now, evolution can DO more than thunderbird, thanks to exchange integration.
[02:03] <roasted> sure, add-ons help, but evolution doesn't need add-ons for that functionality
[02:03] <roasted> personally I think evolution sucks, but it doesn't remove my understanding as to why it's default.
[02:03] <roasted> evolution took 7 hours to sync to my exchange server at work. It's just so bad.
[02:04] <remmy> The Evolution calendar functionality though is very buggy IMO, I've lost events that I've set, hasn't happened in Thunderbird / Lightning yet.
[02:04] <roasted> but there again, lightning
[02:04] <roasted> an add-on
[02:04] <roasted> an add-on not enabled by default
[02:04] <remmy> A recommended addon
[02:04] <roasted> still an add-on not enabled by default
[02:04] <remmy> One that 95% of Thunderbird users have
[02:04] <roasted> lol
[02:05] <roasted> quite an exaggeration there, my friend
[02:05] <remmy> Basically
[02:05] <roasted> I get your stance, I'm just saying, I get why evolution is default
[02:05] <roasted> even though everyone knows it sucks
[02:05] <roasted> personally I think geary has tremendous potential
[02:05] <roasted> geary is fast, lightweight, and really simple - something Gnome is aiming for these days
[02:05] <remmy> I personally think the community should decide what the default email client should be in Ubuntu Gnome
[02:06] <roasted> given the fact that Yorba is focusing so much attention on Geary now (which is why Shotwell was taken over by the elementary OS devs - my favorite distro atm) it only stands to reason just how much time they're putting into Geary
[02:06] <roasted> I think Thunderbird can make sens e- I mean, Ubuntu uses it these days.
[02:07] <remmy> Geary is at best a few years away from feature parity to Thunderbird or Evolution, it would be nice if it was there now, but sadly it isn't.
[02:07] <remmy> I am hopeful though
[02:07] <roasted> years?
[02:07] <roasted> c'mon man...
[02:07] <roasted> geary is fantastic, right now, today, with imap
[02:07] <roasted> exchange + calendar support and it's there
[02:08] <roasted> given elementary OS's aim to integrate Geary with Maya (their calendar) I would think that code could help expedite the integration
[02:09] <remmy> Year then, I'm not familiar with Geary's development pace
[02:10] <roasted> im(really)ho, I think Geary has easily the most amount of potential of any linux email client
[02:10] <roasted> I mean, just take a look around
[02:10] <roasted> kmail sucks, evolution sucks (but has exchange support even if it's bad)
[02:10] <roasted> thunderbird is the one that gets closest to speed/usability/features after a handful of add-ons
[02:10] <roasted> but if geary can get those few more things, it'll be there. Given Geary's development, it has the best chance.
[02:11] <roasted> some argue that Thunderbird is mature enough it doesn't need a dev team anymore, but I disagree. Until it has flawless exchange and calendar support integrated OOTB, it's not there yet.
[02:11] <roasted> but I'm not a coder, so what do I know. :P
[06:06] <kungr> How do you set the default folder view to list, add bookmarks to the window manage palette
[06:07] <kungr> best way to install the latest intel drivers
[11:20] <mgedmin> how do I get mutter >= 3.11.2 on saucy?
[11:21] <mgedmin> and 2nd q: how can I help the gnome3-team ppa maintainers get mutter >= 3.11.2 on saucy in the gnome3 ppa?
[11:21] <mgedmin> because https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-gnome/+bug/1272392 is maddening
[11:24] <mgedmin> also, when I said 3.11.2, I meant 3.10.2
[11:25] <mgedmin> stupid fingers
[11:35] <mgedmin> trusty has mutter 3.10.3, but it needs new clutter/cogl than the ones in saucy/the gnome3 ppa
[11:44] <dakrlight_> darkxst, hey
[11:44] <dakrlight_> it turned out that issue was an upstream bug that showed up in 3.10.3 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722690
[11:45] <dakrlight_> darkxst, long story short gnome-shell 3.10.3 needs those patches
[18:56] <darkxst> mgedmin, I will update mutter on saucy to 3.10.3 soon
[20:09] <Noskcaj> darkxst, congrats
[20:10] <darkxst> Noskcaj, thanks
[20:11] <Noskcaj> Is there any work you'd like me to do when telstra gives me my crappy internet back
[20:13] <darkxst> Noskcaj, hooking up installed tests with jenkins?
[20:13] <darkxst> there is a list of packages on the packaging blueprint
[20:15] <darkxst> Noskcaj, also the remaining new gnome apps (photos etc)
[20:16] <darkxst> and gnome-weather
[20:17] <Noskcaj> ok. I'll do that once i get my internets back
[20:20] <darkxst> thanks