[07:43] <Myrtti> MORNING SWEETUMS
[07:47] <MartijnVdS> \o Myrtti
[07:48] <MartijnVdS> Laney: congratifications!
[07:54] <mapps> hello
[07:54] <mapps> MORNING Myrtti  MartijnVdS
[07:54] <mapps> :D
[07:54] <mapps> morning TheOpenSourcerer
[08:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all.
[09:12] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:12] <arsen> goood morning :)
[09:13] <mapps> morning
[09:15] <diplo> Morning all
[09:16] <mapps> hey diplo
[09:20] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Bubble Wrap Appreciation Day! :-D  http://www.virtual-bubblewrap.com/popnow.shtml
[09:20] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[09:29] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: according to G+, it's also Laney day :)
[09:29] <Laney> little ol' me
[09:46] <Laney> glamorous birthday purchase #1: replacement curtain cord
[10:06] <directhex> fancy
[10:06] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:21] <popey> hello Dad
[10:21] <SuperMatt> o.O
[10:21]  * SuperMatt has ordered a nexus 5 with his first paycheque
[10:21] <MartijnVdS> \o/ n5
[10:22] <SuperMatt> :d
[10:22] <SuperMatt> :d
[10:22] <SuperMatt> :D
[10:22] <SuperMatt> that's better
[10:22] <MartijnVdS> *\o/*
[10:22] <SuperMatt> I must have had capslock on for a sec
[10:22] <dwatkins> Caps lock is cruise control for cool...
[10:22] <SuperMatt> roffles
[10:24] <popey> what phone is it replacing?
[10:24] <popey> and how long before it stops getting android updates? ☻
[10:25] <SuperMatt> hah, good question
[10:25] <SuperMatt> but it's replacing my s3
[10:25] <MartijnVdS> popey: probably around the time that Ubuntu Phone updates start coming? ;)
[10:27] <brobostigon> i could still update my htc dream with android version up untill android 4 which still worked on it, so that was alot of updates.
[10:30] <dwatkins> My HTC Desire HD is still running Gingerbread, Android 2.3.
[10:31] <directhex> sighdroid
[10:31] <dwatkins> sighanogenmod
[10:33] <popey> sighphone
[10:33] <popey> sighos
[10:33] <popey> my ipad is ios5, lots of apps have starting being crap on it
[10:33] <popey> like chrome crashing all the time, and 4od no longer working, and forcing you to go to the app store to update, where you find it requires ios 6 ☹
[10:33] <popey> #fml
[10:33] <Myrtti> fix my life :-P
[10:34] <nigelb> Myrtti++
[10:35] <brobostigon> fixmybrain.com
[10:36] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: just spray this on it: http://i.imgur.com/olKX9Yo.jpg
[10:37] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: haha
[10:38] <directhex> popey, what vintage of ipad?
[10:38] <popey> first one
[10:39] <dwatkins> so you can't upgrade it any more? :(
[10:41] <bigcalm> Would jail breaking it increase longevity in any way?
[10:44] <dwatkins> probably not, unless you count the ability to play MAME games on it as a feature ;)
[10:44] <dwatkins> I've been considering getting an old iPad for this reason.
[10:46] <jussi> ooh a mame games machine... :D
[10:46] <dwatkins> yeah, there was a game in the app-store which allowed you to manually copy MAME games to the iPad, but it doesn't seem to exist any more, so it's JailBreak only if you want to use it for that.
[10:47] <dwatkins> I bought an 8-bitty bluetooth controller for it, it works with some games.
[10:47] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: or, you know, don't buy locked-down apple stuff ;)
[10:47] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: let's not sidetrack this discussion ;)
[10:55] <dwatkins> I have an original Nexus 7 as well, although it's a bit slow compared to more recent Android tablets, I imagine.
[10:55] <shauno> that really wouldn't help much, would it?  I mean, the first galaxy tab is a similar vintage, and that won't go past Gingerbread
[10:55] <dwatkins> This Nexus 7 is on Android 4.3, iirc.
[10:56]  * dwatkins plugs it in for the first time in 1.5 weeks
[10:56] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:59] <shauno> well, I more mean that if you bought a galaxy tab in 2010, and a 1st gen ipad in 2010.  4od requires ios6 or android 4.0+, and the devices won't go past 2.3.6/ios5 respectively
[11:00] <shauno> so "don't buy locked-down apple stuff" is a nice easy cheapshot, but you'd end up in exactly the same position
[11:00] <jussi> Im still umming about whether to wait for the new galaxy tab pro 8.4 or go for the n7 2013
[11:06] <Monotoko_> what would be the best way to set up a live stream, and stream to China?
[11:07] <Monotoko_> without it lagging like dial up in the 90's
[11:08] <MartijnVdS> !xyproblem
[11:08] <MartijnVdS> !xy
[11:09] <Monotoko_> haha - right, I have a friend in China who I would like to watch some movies with, maybe some music, maybe some live video in real time
[11:09] <MartijnVdS> Monotoko_: do you have the upstream bandwidth required?
[11:09] <Monotoko_> MartijnVdS: I have 300mbit/s on a VPS
[11:09] <MartijnVdS> Monotoko_: you could try something like skype, maybe? (I don't know what the do and don't block)
[11:09] <shauno> have you tried anything yet to see what the latency's actually like?
[11:09] <MartijnVdS> or just a web server?
[11:09] <dwatkins> how about both streaming from the same source, assuming that's possible for you both, Monotoko_?
[11:10] <Monotoko_> Skype is blocked... most things are blocked, so I was going to get something locally on the box
[11:10] <Monotoko_> and stream it out
[11:10] <dwatkins> aw shame
[11:11] <Monotoko_> and I haven't tried it yet - I attempted with VLC, but I can't receive MP4 from it... was wondering if I should keep attempting with that, or if there is something a bit less fidly to set up?
[11:11] <dwatkins> mplayer should play an mp4 stream
[11:11] <dwatkins> or do you mean for sending a stream?
[11:12] <Monotoko_> I need something to broadcast from the server... then I need to receive the stream on my home PC (receiving it seems easy enough, sending it is the difficult bit)
[11:12] <MartijnVdS> webrtc?
[11:12] <dwatkins> I can watch video off my linux machine streaming via apache to various applications.
[11:13] <shauno> http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/hangouts/O3gbSBIZEbA   looks like it could be worth a shot
[11:15] <Monotoko_> hm - there is just the VPN suggestion
[11:15] <Monotoko_> which I have already tried
[11:15] <Monotoko_> the chinese net blocked it somewhere upstream
[11:16] <shauno> the second reply seems to believe that one-to-one hangouts work fine, but not 'broadcasts' (?  don't use hangouts, so I'm not sure what this references).  just thinking it's something that'd take 2 minutes to test
[11:17] <Monotoko_> google.cn redirects her to google.com.hk which is then blocked
[11:17] <Monotoko_> >.>
[11:18] <shauno> fair enough.  I just like to see if someone else has already solved it for me first :)
[11:18] <popey> yeah, we use hangouts, they work, but hangouts on air don't, for people from China
[11:18] <popey> because youtube
[11:18] <Monotoko_> so how come she can't access google.cn?
[11:19] <Dave2> because google.cn doesn't exist any more
[11:19] <Dave2> Well, the domain does, but Google pulled out from China.
[11:19] <Monotoko_> bah - this is driving me crazy haha
[11:20] <Monotoko_> I will keep trying with VLC - if I can get it to stream she should be able to tune into it
[12:02] <brobostigon> that was funny, someone on daily politics just george osborne a psychopath.
[12:02] <brobostigon> called*
[12:03] <bashrc> sounds fairly accurate
[12:03] <brobostigon> without any doubt accurate
[12:04] <brobostigon> i fell out of my chair laughing.
[12:05] <directhex> i'm pretty sure he doesn't meet the definition of psychopath
[12:05] <directhex> perhaps sociopath
[12:05] <brobostigon> it was a good joke anyways.
[12:07] <davmor2> directhex, brobostigon: Ass I think is the term you are after well at least the politest version you can type here
[12:07] <brobostigon> that also works.
[12:10] <dwatkins> that's probably an insult to donkeys
[12:11] <davmor2> dwatkins: indeed but I can't really say what I'd like too :)
[12:11]  * brobostigon makes notes, to write a cartoon for private eye.
[12:14] <foobarry> i was bought a massive book of private eye cartoons for xmas
[12:14] <brobostigon> :)
[12:15] <foobarry> didn't ask for it :S
[12:15] <foobarry> had other stuff on my amazon list..
[12:18] <popey> yeah, damn those family members, why can't they just buy whats on my list
[12:18] <foobarry> looks like it cost £25 or something
[12:19] <foobarry> better read it i suppose
[12:19] <davmor2> popey: does your list start with the cheapest item at £1000?
[12:19] <dwatkins> I got a Rubik's Cube for christmas.
[12:21] <popey> i think mine has things for 2-3 quid on it
[12:21] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/registry/wishlist/29FWHGD2GAECA
[12:22] <dwatkins> I approve of your choice of compilation CDs, popey
[12:22] <dwatkins> regarding quadcopters, I'm very tempted to get one of those, too
[12:23] <davmor2> popey: did you specifically say only buy me stuff from here it's what I need?
[12:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> I got (amongst other things) a Bombay Bad Boy Pot Noodle for Christmas. Which I am about to eat :-D
[12:25] <directhex> they're not really from bombay
[12:26] <dwatkins> I bet they're not bad boys, either.
[12:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> Probably both true.
[12:33] <diplo> Horrible horrible things
[12:34] <diplo> popey: How is the remote controlled thing going ?
[12:35] <popey> not worked on it yet
[12:35] <popey> i mean, the bot is built, but i need some components
[12:36] <diplo> Might try something similar with my boys soon, thought it was a great idea.. had to wait till payday though
[12:41] <diplo> Having a blonde moment here, have a vps with a few Virtual domains on it
[12:42] <diplo>  /etc/hosts set to use our main domain so ip <domain> <hostname>
[12:42] <diplo> Yet if I go to the IP it resolves on of the other domains from virtual hosts
[12:43] <diplo> Trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong, could this just be a dns propagation/hosts set up thing, changed dns on friday afternoon but forgot to change hosts file till this morning
[12:49] <DJones> Stupid BT, move depots from place to another, change phone supplier, new supplier notifies BT of change & arranges transfer of a couple of numbers, we notify BT that we won't be using them at new premises and we're moving out of the old one & to cancel all services, 4 months later, still getting bills for phone lines, ring them up, they cancel bills & backdate, then 6 months later we get bills for broadband on lines that were cancelled
[12:49] <MartijnVdS> DJones: yay paperwork
[12:49] <diplo> Sounds very much like my interactions with BT DJones :/
[12:50] <MartijnVdS> "But.. you can't not want to pay us!"
[12:51] <DJones> Yep, although I'm sure it'll be 100 times worse when we move from the current provider.....TalkTalk....Cough, splutter
[12:52] <diplo> Was so happy when we outsourced all interaction with BT to a third party
[12:53] <diplo> Saved us loads and they had much better contacts than us up the management levels
[13:06] <knightwise> morning everyone
[13:10] <foobarry> my window manager crashed :(
[13:10] <foobarry> too many chrome tabs open
[13:10] <foobarry> maybe i need a swap partition
[13:11] <foobarry> *file
[13:15] <foobarry> that deepmind company was only 18 months old and had 75 employees. $400M
[13:18] <popey> 16131 root      20   0  431660 108624  93692 S  12.9  0.7   0:05.73 Xorg
[13:19] <popey> well, that's one way to get xorg memory usage down
[13:19] <popey> it dying
[13:19] <MartijnVdS> rebootign?
[13:19] <MartijnVdS> popey: did you file a bug about it yet?
[13:19] <popey> was in the middle of working when suddenly logon screen
[13:19] <popey> yes
[13:19] <foobarry> popey: me too :P
[13:19] <foobarry> but i was using gala
[13:19] <popey> bug
[13:19] <popey> bah
[13:19] <popey> bug 1272338
[13:20] <foobarry> i opened facebook tab. was the last straw
[13:21] <MartijnVdS> popey: ah it's in the intel driver? Good thing I haven't rebooted for a while then :)
[13:21] <MartijnVdS> popey: (I thought you were on nvidia?)
[13:21] <popey> laptop
[13:21] <popey> x220 = intel, desktop = nvidia
[13:21] <popey> (although desktop has onboard intel which is disabled)
[13:26] <MartijnVdS> I installed 12.04 on a machine with a Via Unichrome the other day
[13:26] <MartijnVdS> that's *horribly* slow
[13:26] <MartijnVdS> so if anyone has an AGP Geforce or Radeon that can run Unity in 3D mode.. I'll pay for shipping :)
[13:27] <popey> i may have one
[13:28] <popey> remind me this evening to have a rummage
[13:28] <MartijnVdS> ok :) thanks
[13:32] <foobarry> only just realised there awas a new series of big bang
[13:34] <foobarry> oh..even more weird. i've seen teh earlier ones before xmas
[13:35] <foobarry> so they just didn't show eps 8 and 9 until now
[13:38] <JGJones> I also might have one thanks to a old Shuttle PC that just gave up the ghost - I have no idea if the graphics is up to par for Unity but I'll check
[13:49] <MartijnVdS> JGJones: \o/
[13:51] <JGJones> OK got the PC out of the garage... MartijnVdS - it's a ATI Radeon VE - any good? It's AGP at least.
[13:52] <JGJones> There was a nvidia one, but it's in silcon heaven - I thought I had taken it to the dump but nope, got it here still.
[13:52] <MartijnVdS> that should support OpenGL 1.4 according to wikipedia
[13:53] <JGJones> I'm happy to post it to you if you want to test it.
[13:53] <MartijnVdS> JGJones: yeah, I've tried an old Nvidia, but it had also died
[13:53] <MartijnVdS> I'm not even going to try the PCI S3 Trio ;)
[13:53] <JGJones> ohh there's also a WinTV-NOVA-T in it too (I completely forgot about that) - anyone want it?
[13:54] <JGJones> (I don't get freeview here so it's no good for me)
[13:54] <MartijnVdS> JGJones: The Interwebs seem to agree that 3d on the Radeon 7000 (also known as VE) is not (well) supported
[13:55] <MartijnVdS> thanks for looking anyway :)
[13:55] <JGJones> No worries :)
[13:56] <diplo> MartijnVdS: If popey doesn't find one, I should have a few AGP cards in the loft
[13:56] <MartijnVdS> diplo: Cool :)
[13:56] <popey> i cant look till later
[13:56] <diplo> me either
[13:56] <MartijnVdS> no problem, I'm at work too :)
[13:56] <diplo> Lots of offers, just read up after typing that in
[13:57] <diddledan> I'm at homework :-p
[13:57] <diddledan> morning btw :-)
[13:57] <MartijnVdS> \o diddledan
[13:58] <foobarry> picked up depeche mode biolator for 1.99 on google play \o/
[13:58] <foobarry> ^bio^vio
[13:59] <JGJones> Hmm - does anyone have an IDE to USB that they don't really want anymore? Time to take all the stuff off the HDD on this Shuttle before I take it to the dump?
[13:59] <MartijnVdS> JGJones: ye olde IDE or SATA?
[14:00] <diddledan> ye olde before-IDE :-p
[14:00] <diddledan> beware the IDEs of March
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: MFM?
[14:00] <diddledan> MartijnVdS: no idea what it was called :-p
[14:01] <MartijnVdS> "the one used in XTs"
[14:01] <diddledan> MartijnVdS: required a separate controller board
[14:01]  * JGJones looks...I can't remember what they was called back then anymore!
[14:01] <diddledan> yeah I think so
[14:01] <JGJones> I think SATA...it's a parallel cable - along with a master-slave relationship
[14:02] <JGJones> the mobo is for an AMD Athlon XP if that helps?
[14:02] <diddledan> JGJones: that's IDE
[14:02] <diddledan> SATA is Serial
[14:02] <MartijnVdS> IDE = PATA = Parallel ATA
[14:02] <diddledan> it's the moderm one
[14:02] <JGJones> whew so I guessed right :D
[14:02] <diddledan> yup :-)
[14:03] <MartijnVdS> = AT Attachment (= 16-bit ISA bus in disguise.. yeah really)
[14:03] <diddledan> MartijnVdS: so our modern SATA is still 16bit inside?! :-o
[14:04] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: nah, SATA refreshed the spec a lot
[14:04] <diddledan> whew
[14:04] <directhex> your CPU still is, though
[14:04] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: the 16-bit thing was ATA-1, the "original" IDE
[14:05] <directhex> every modern Intel or AMD CPU still contains a functional 16-bit 8086
[14:05] <MartijnVdS> directhex: though it'll be hard to get to from 64-bit mode
[14:06]  * MartijnVdS looked that up a few weeks ago
[14:06] <directhex> you can't get to it from 64-bit mode
[14:06] <directhex> but you can't boot in BIOS mode without starting in 16-bit mode
[14:07] <MartijnVdS> sure
[14:07] <shauno> I Think you should be able to, but it'd be suicide for the OS?
[14:07] <directhex> it doesn't mean anything
[14:08] <directhex> BIOS means 16-bit
[14:08] <JGJones> so what happens in UEFI? It doesn't start in 16-bit mode does it?
[14:08] <directhex> BIOS GRUB is 16-bit 8086 machine code, at least the stage 1 is
[14:08] <directhex> UEFI is native to that platform. amd64 on amd64 systems, i386 on i386 systems. ia64 on ia64 systems. arm on arm systems
[14:08] <directhex> i386 on some amd64 macs. sigh
[14:10] <diddledan> macs aren't true UEFI - they're EFI-only
[14:10] <JGJones> What's the difference?
[14:10] <directhex> spec vintage
[14:10] <diddledan> their implementation predates the UEFI spec
[14:10] <JGJones> Might that be why it's a pain in the arse to install ubuntu on Apple hardware?
[14:11] <diddledan> I've never had a problem installing ubuntu
[14:11] <directhex> EFI came into existence because Itanium doesn't contain an 8086 - so BIOS is no good
[14:12] <JGJones> diddledan: I can't install Ubuntu on my macbook pro (it's a 9,1 model - 15" macbook pro, late 2012, non-retina)
[14:16] <shauno> I sort of can but I don't consider it successful.  but I have to remove my hdd to do so
[14:17] <JGJones> However Linux Mint does install on the macbook pro. Ubuntu just don't - boot into a black screen, nothing working, not even get to see grub. I want ubuntu because I do like Unity.
[14:18] <shauno> installing from usb or dvd?
[14:19] <JGJones> Been a while - I did do both method, but I don't remember which got further for Ubuntu.
[14:19] <davmor2> directhex: I thought mac was using it's version before itanium but maybe I got my history wrong.  There was a very good write up over the weekend
[14:20] <directhex> davmor2, itanium is late 90s. apple switched in mid naughties
[14:20] <shauno> mac had openfirmware pre-itanium, since they were still on ppc.  they move to efi with the intel switch in 2005/6
[14:21] <davmor2> directhex: ah right yeah I have a feeling that It was written up as mac were the first wide users of it maybe?
[14:21] <directhex> itanium was TOTALLY widespread, in my happy place in my mind
[14:22] <davmor2> directhex: no so much in the real world though right :)
[14:22] <shauno> on mine (8,2, the model before yours), if I install from internal optical it'll install in bios-emulation mode, which sort of works, but with lousy powermanagement and no gpu switching (so it runs hot, gets about 1/6th battery life, etc)
[14:22] <directhex> that place sucks & i avoid it
[14:23] <shauno> if I install from usb it has to be via efi (apple's bios-emulation only works for sata or firewire), and then I gain powermanagement, but don't have any video unless I can force the machine and the OS to agree on which gpu they're using
[14:24] <davmor2> directhex, JGJones: http://www.happyassassin.net/2014/01/25/uefi-boot-how-does-that-actually-work-then/
[14:25] <davmor2> that's a pretty good write up on uefi bit long winded but fairly easy to follow
[14:26] <shauno> I have some notes somewhere; out-of-the-box I get no video at all, with some outb commands in grub's command line I can bring the video back, but mid-boot it disappears again.  and I still haven't figured out the right voodoo to actually blacklist the radeon modules to prevent that part
[14:27] <shauno> (if you remember peek/poke, inb/outb will be familiar yet terrifying)
[14:28] <diddledan> shauno: I remember inb and outb from messing with rudimentary vga programming
[14:28] <diddledan> :-p
[14:29] <diddledan> shauno: I built my own (bad) kernel which did absolutely sod-all
[14:29] <diddledan> called it "monsteros" :-p
[14:29] <diddledan> <-- honey monster, afterall
[14:34] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: Inquiring minds need to know, was it Bombay , was it bad and was it a boy?
[14:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: Well, I enjoyed it. It was bad, probably male, not sure about the Bombay bit.
[14:36] <davmor2> popey: where did you get your nice vim/vi cheat sheet from please
[14:37] <davmor2> keep meaning to ask you :)
[14:39] <popey> http://vimcheatsheet.com/
[14:42] <davmor2> popey: thanks
[14:42] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: haha
[14:45] <czajkowski> Laney: davmor2 popey https://plus.google.com/u/0/+LauraCzajkowski/posts/djAbrvcfSem  :)
[14:46] <Laney> he looks puzzled / concerned by all things
[14:46] <czajkowski> Laney: he is he has a small ball he can put his mouth around
[14:46] <czajkowski> keeps him well entertained
[14:48] <davmor2> czajkowski: why, why, why do you torment that poor dog till he looks like that?
[14:51] <MartijnVdS> "You put WHAT? WHERE?"
[14:55] <Laney> see if he can get in those demijohns
[14:57] <czajkowski> davmor2: fun bath times :)
[14:58]  * Laney has earl grey truffles
[14:58] <Laney> most curious
[15:01] <davmor2> Laney: sometimes I worry that there are things wrong in your head, the rest of the time I know there is :D
[15:02] <Laney> come on, a pug in a demijohn would be seriously cute
[15:02] <Laney> like a ship in a bottle
[15:03] <diddledan> Laney: like this: http://bonsaikitten.com/
[15:04] <Laney> zackly
[15:04] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: people were so angry about that site once :)
[15:06] <diddledan> MartijnVdS: that's why I remember it
[15:17] <foobarry> if i wanted a small piece of nice pine about 14 inches x 8 x 2, can you pick that up in teh offcuts section in B&Q?
[15:17] <foobarry> not sure how b&q works
[15:42] <MartijnVdS> from sharknado.. to catnado: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25902371
[15:55] <JGJones> shauno: seem you got further than me. Ubuntu just result in a blank screen, utterly nothing I can do with it. Linux Mint on other hand works just fine even though it's ubuntu based. Look like Ubuntu need to borrow their voodoo.
[16:48] <red__> hi all
[16:50] <red__> so I am trying to listen to streaming radio on  ubuntu and using chrome where the player should be it reads that there is a plug in missing - but it not tell me which one, advice please#
[16:54] <mapps>  hm
[16:54] <mapps> afternoon
[17:06] <daftykins> hi mapps, how's it going?
[17:07] <mapps> not bad mae..you?
[17:07] <mapps> just messing with some php and ajax :) gonna watch sleepers soon too..never seen it!!
[17:08] <daftykins> hmm not heard of that, recent or old film?
[17:08] <daftykins> yeah not bad ty, just 'hacked' some old nvidia drivers onto an ancient Windows XP PC with an nvidia vanta card i'm looking at for a friend :D
[17:08] <ali1234> vanta really sucks... i mean really... it's like a TNT card
[17:09] <mapps> old dide
[17:09] <ali1234> i had to put one in an old XP computer because the real video card died
[17:09] <mapps> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117665/
[17:09] <mapps> daftykins,  looks good  1996 good rating..good cast
[17:09] <daftykins> ali1234: yeah it's quite funny seeing it struggling on my 1920x1200 screen - it blanks briefly if i visit youtube and watch a video :D
[17:10] <ali1234> yeah it would freeze every 5 seconds @ 1280x1024 and youtube was unusable
[17:10] <ali1234> seriously just get a GT610 they are like £20
[17:10] <daftykins> no, i've told the client to replace the whole machine since XP is dead in April
[17:11] <daftykins> the rest of it is an Athlon64 3400+ with 1GB RAM, so it's just not worth spending on
[17:11] <daftykins> AGP too
[17:11] <daftykins> VIA K8T800 mobo, nasty chipset
[17:11] <mapps> ive got an old amd athlon 64 with 4 gb ram running xubuntu:D
[17:11] <daftykins> yeah if it had even 2GB RAM and a sane graphics card i'd have considered suggesting to put windows 7 on
[17:11] <daftykins> but it's just not worth it
[17:12] <ali1234> yeah that's pretty much the same machine i was dealing with... got a new one to replace it
[17:12] <daftykins> hmm what was the old calculation for video card memory use?
[17:12] <mapps> why not xubuntu daftykins ?
[17:12] <mapps> OR LUBUNTU?
[17:13] <daftykins> resolution X x Y x bit-depth gives bits?
[17:13] <ali1234> lubuntu isn't very active these days
[17:13] <ali1234> xubuntu is though
[17:13] <ali1234> x * y * bit depth gives the framebuffer size in bits, yes
[17:13] <daftykins> mapps: they'll use it to hang onto the ancient QuickBooks accounting software, plus i will never put Linux in for a client - simply not sane :)
[17:13] <ali1234> but how it's stored on the card might be different
[17:13] <daftykins> yeah
[17:14] <ali1234> like it might always be stored as 32 bit/4 bytes
[17:14] <daftykins> just gives an amusing idea of how paltry 16MB is for modern use
[17:14] <ali1234> yeah
[17:14] <ali1234> HD is like an 8mb famebuffer
[17:14] <ali1234> but anything modern is going to use heaps of texture memory anyway
[17:15] <daftykins> hmm so as an example, 1280x1024 x 32-bit / 1048576 = 40MB
[17:15] <ali1234> ...no
[17:15] <mapps> AHA
[17:16] <mapps> i have old mchines galore
[17:16] <mapps> :D
[17:16] <mapps> but
[17:16] <daftykins> *MiB ? :D
[17:16] <ali1234> 40 megabits... 5 megabytes
[17:16] <daftykins> ah that was my first idea but i abandoned it
[17:16] <daftykins> as i took the bit value of the megabyte i thought i was skipping a step
[17:17] <ali1234> but you didn't...
[17:17] <daftykins> hmm?
[17:17] <ali1234> 1048576 is the number of bytes in 1 megabyte
[17:17] <daftykins> nah i took the byte value yeah :(
[17:17] <daftykins> silly me.
[17:18] <mapps> :D
[17:20] <daftykins> can tell my degree wasn't comp sci, i could smugly do all this but have less of an appreciation for practical matters ;)
[17:27] <dutchie> pfft. practical matters are overrated
[17:27] <daftykins> dutchie: ;D
[17:32] <mapps> god too many remotes
[17:33] <mapps> tv time
[17:33] <mapps> :)
[17:33] <mapps> although gets annoying seen every how i met your mo/big bang theory e4 show
[17:33] <mapps> theyt repeat everything too often
[17:36] <lornajane> can anyone tell me what unity actually does when I plug in a second monitor (or unplug it)?
[17:36] <lornajane> My touchscreen misconfigures itself every time, and I dock and undock this machine often!  I have a script to fix it, but I have to run it so often
[17:37] <daftykins> mapps: i avoid that by not having broadcast connected up ;)
[17:38] <mapps> heh
[17:38] <mapps> not sure lornajane
[17:38] <mapps> both are good though daftykins  or you not like?>
[17:38] <mapps> just a case that e4 do things to death
[17:39] <mapps> i mean they did the same with scrubs..run them relentlessly
[17:39] <daftykins> mapps: i only know Big Bang Theory, which i watch yeah
[17:39] <mapps> ah
[17:40] <lornajane> mapps: do you know where I might look/ask to find out?  I don't seem to know the right words for google
[17:40] <mapps> hmm
[17:41] <mapps> have you tried the ubuntu help pages
[17:41] <mapps> tvs atrocious at weekends /during the day daftykins  this period till 8/9 is when theres watchable stuff on:P
[17:42] <daftykins> lornajane: what exactly gets misconfigured?
[17:44] <lornajane> daftykins: I have a touch screen laptop.  I have to run a script with a setwacom command in it every time my screen gets resized
[17:44] <popey> lornajane: how do you mean by "misconfigures"?
[17:44] <popey> I attach/unattach my laptop to a screen multiple times a day, and it does the "right thing" each time
[17:44] <lornajane> unity seems to also like to shuffle my windows between desktops, but that's probably an unrelated problem
[17:44] <popey> yeah, that can happen
[17:44] <lornajane> popey: my screens are right, but I need to re-run my wacom thing
[17:44] <popey> oh
[17:45] <lornajane> I am looking to hook the two together, if at all possible
[17:45] <popey> yes, i see
[17:45] <popey> thats been broken forever
[17:45] <popey> i filed a bug in ~2006
[17:45] <popey> oh, 2009
[17:45] <popey> bug 434247
[17:45] <popey> 6 digit bug numbers
[17:46]  * popey looks whistfully into the past
[17:46] <daftykins> D
[17:46] <daftykins> * :D
[17:46] <lornajane> so I should just run my script on a 5-minute cron and not worry about it?  It's not like I point a lot, but there are lots of things I can't do that the touch screen helps with
[17:46] <popey> "that'll be fixed with mir"
[17:46] <popey> shitcanonicalpeoplesay dot tumblr dot com
[17:46] <popey> yeah, can't see it being fixed soon
[17:47] <lornajane> I have another set of custom scripts to rotate both screen and touchscreen for when I flip the screen over to make an overgrown tablet - don't do that a lot though so it's less annoying
[17:50] <mapps> love watching the chase
[17:50] <mapps> altohugh more often than not i cant answer many :)
[17:52] <mapps> what to do
[18:12] <diddledan> http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/6261-sky-parental-controls-break-jquery-website.html
[18:12] <diddledan> the great british firewall in action
[18:14] <daftykins> i'd not like to be on an ISP doing that
[18:15] <daftykins> but it sounds like you can turn it all off?
[18:15] <diddledan> you can until cameron decides to enforce it
[18:15] <daftykins> ah well, just gotta hope the Guernsey government doesn't blindly follow yours (:
[18:16] <diddledan> the ISPs have proven that the tech can be made to do it so now all it needs is the government to decide to make it a legal requirement
[18:16] <diddledan> the government position could potentially become "well you've implemented it all now, it'ld be a shame to let it go to waste"
[18:16] <MartijnVdS> once they break enough stuff (gov't websites?) they might back down
[18:17] <daftykins> hopefully it's more complex than that
[18:17] <daftykins> i thought i read something about telecommunications or so not being allowed to be modified - by law, recently
[18:18] <daftykins> by the carrier i mean
[18:19] <diddledan> supposedly yes
[18:19] <MartijnVdS> the common carrier/mere conduit stuff
[18:19] <diddledan> but is it modified telecommunication to not allow the communication?
[18:19] <MartijnVdS> "If you touch it, you're liable. If you don't touch it, you're not"
[18:19] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: it implies knowledge of what is (or would be) transferred
[18:20] <daftykins> diddledan: yeah filtering counts as modifying
[18:20] <diddledan> daftykins: is there legal precedent to that effect?\
[18:21] <daftykins> there may come a time when my local gov. will need some educating from Mr. Privacy himself, here on IRC
[18:21] <daftykins> diddledan: unfortunately i can't remember what i read in enough detail :(
[18:21] <diddledan> :-(
[18:21] <diddledan> oh well
[18:22] <diddledan> I'll carry-on donating to the FSF and hope they protect me :-p
[18:22] <daftykins> :D
[18:23] <diddledan> in other news, a branch of GCHQ (I believe it was anywho) have announced that ubuntu is the most secure of the widely available "popular" operating systems
[18:23] <diddledan> pitting xp, 7, os x, ubuntu, ios and android against each other
[18:23] <daftykins> i was going to ask - was it the only Linux? :)
[18:23] <diddledan> they might have included 8 and RT too
[18:24] <diddledan> I think it was, yes
[18:24] <diddledan> the only linux, I mena
[18:25] <diddledan> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/01/ubuntu-12-04-secure-os-uk-government-gchq
[18:26] <daftykins> though from what little of the Snowden shenanigans i've followed, cryptography has still been greatly affected by certain agencies' agendas, so there are still issues within technologies used within Linux, no?
[18:26] <diddledan> yeah, I heard rumour that openssl was influenced by the NSA (and potentially otherS)
[18:27] <daftykins> so are all our SSH usages under threat?
[18:27] <diddledan> potentially, yeah
[18:28] <diddledan> the problem is without hard evidence you can't really prove one way or another until <insert bad thing here> happens
[18:28] <daftykins> *nod*
[18:29] <diddledan> cryptography is such a dark art as it is that it can be almost impossible to determine whether a given implenmentation is flawed just by studying the code
[18:30] <daftykins> i wonder if it's tough to find great mathematicians that are also great coders
[18:31] <knightwise> hey everyone
[18:32] <knightwise> anyone have any good ideas on how to reset an X session in XFCE ? after i plugged the laptop in to an external monitor... I get a black screen after login
[18:33] <daftykins> any clues in your Xorg log?
[18:33] <diddledan> knightwise: you killed it :-p
[18:33] <knightwise> I think so
[18:33] <mapps> hm
[18:33] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: xfce didn't expect you to have a modern enough PC for that ;)
[18:33] <mapps> this ciders too sugary
[18:33] <mapps> can still feel it on my teeth
[18:33] <mapps> even though brushed them since
[18:33] <knightwise> MartijnVdS: I would leave in a huff .. if I had a desktop :p
[18:35] <daftykins> leave what? :)
[18:35] <knightwise> daftykins: the room :)
[18:35] <daftykins> desktops are great!
[18:35] <diddledan> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/01/chromium-npapi-flash-dropped-april-2014
[18:36] <knightwise> is there some dpkg reconfigure command I could try ?
[18:36] <daftykins> knightwise: so you had an external display hooked up, extended to? used instead of? then shutdown with it attached?
[18:37] <knightwise> had it connected , it went mirrored, then it "switched back" to one screen and went dark
[18:37]  * knightwise did a bad bad thing ? 
[18:37] <daftykins> and that blackness is persisting across reboots?
[18:37] <knightwise> unfortunately
[18:38] <knightwise> when I log in it throws me back into the login window at first (i get a graphical login screen) , next time I log in .. its all blackness
[18:38] <daftykins> ah yeah so that does sound like session issues separate to X
[18:39] <knightwise> quite probably
[18:39] <daftykins> maybe there's a .xfce home folder you can rename temporarily
[18:39] <daftykins> i'm sure someone here will know better
[18:39] <knightwise> erm.. and i can find that where ?
[18:39] <knightwise> in my home directory ?
[18:40] <daftykins> potentially ~/.config/xfce...
[18:40] <daftykins> also .cache and .local apparently 0o
[18:40] <knightwise> there is xfce4 and xfce4 session
[18:41] <daftykins> so try renaming them to ignore their potential config
[18:42] <daftykins> which granted, is a pretty nuke approach to the situation
[18:42] <knightwise> ok
[18:42] <knightwise> i give it a try.
[18:42] <knightwise> rebooting , holdon
[18:45] <daftykins> anyone feel free to jump in and tell me what a useless approach i'm taking ^_^
[18:45] <knightwise> That did the trick !
[18:45] <knightwise> logged back in
[18:46] <knightwise> only lost my wallpaper and a couple of settings
[18:46] <knightwise> not much
[18:46] <knightwise> thanx daftykins
[18:46]  * knightwise is thinking about installing the ubuntu desktop just in case 
[18:46] <knightwise> because that worked just peachy with my 2 screens
[18:46] <daftykins> :)
[18:46] <daftykins> no problem sir
[20:32] <MartijnVdS> popey: ping :)
[20:33] <MartijnVdS> popey: (re: AGP card)
[20:46] <popey> MartijnVdS: i think i may have binned it, i cant find any agp cards ☹
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> popey: np :) thanks for looking!
[20:46] <popey> np
[20:53] <daftykins> hehe i was just dealing with a ghetto system that could've done with a newer AGP card
[20:53] <daftykins> ebay has some nice £6 geforce4 MX's :D
[20:53] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: do those do unity 3d? :)
[20:53] <daftykins> lol
[20:55] <MartijnVdS> it's "NV10" series. OpenGL 1.2, not 1.4
[20:56] <daftykins> so the use-case involves running Unity?
[20:56] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: Unity 3D, or fast Unity 3D
[20:56] <MartijnVdS> uh 2D
[20:56] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: it has Via UNichrome now.. only slight 2D acceleration. Slowness.
[20:56] <daftykins> erk!
[20:59] <daftykins> almost anything would be better than that
[20:59] <MartijnVdS> yes :)
[20:59] <daftykins> i remember setting up a server with a VIA integrated, using the driver caused server 2008 to BSOD
[20:59] <daftykins> not that the driver gave anything better than default
[21:00] <daftykins> alrighty i'm heading off to my lounge, bbl \o
[21:00] <MartijnVdS> \o
[21:04] <diddledan> hang on. at home. in the lounge. and NOT on IRC?!
[21:05] <diddledan> seriously, what is the world coming to when people have real life things they do?!
[21:06] <brobostigon-quas> i wonder if the dwp should be advertising a job of which its job description is, 'catalogue distributor',
[21:07] <diddledan> brobostigon-quas: sounds like the kind of thing the government want to encourage more of, no?
[21:07] <diddledan> especially for those that are on sickness benefit and can't actually do "normal" work
[21:08] <diddledan> (caveat: I was a long-term sick person before I got a job, so I know what it's like to be forced into work when you're not able)
[21:08] <brobostigon-quas> the issue here is, the government believes in the minimum wage,
[21:09] <brobostigon-quas> and or the working wage,
[21:09] <brobostigon-quas> thats no longer equal them then advertising such jobs.
[21:12] <awilkins> Whhat kind of AGP cards did people want
[21:12] <awilkins> I have a sysadmin contact at Southampton uni who is apparently clearing a shedload of them out
[21:13] <diddledan> the dwp listings are just like any other agency's listings.. completely unvetted and automated
[21:13] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, AGP?
[21:13] <brobostigon-quas> exactly diddledan
[21:14] <awilkins> From experience, the ones on NHS Jobs are completely wrung of any useful information before being posted
[21:14] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: yeah, it's an old machine I'm rescuing by putting Ubuntu on it instead of XP (owner has no money for a new machine, but a €20 graphics card to have it "go" for another year should be enough)
[21:15] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, Go and poke pixelguff on irc.foonetic.net / #bibeogaem
[21:15] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: thanks, adding to my list :)
[21:17] <brobostigon> just applied for a job as a chef, i seemed to fit the bill.
[21:29] <diddledan> anyone got a spare 60k+?
[21:29] <diddledan> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JURASSIC-PARK-Velociraptor-Cage-Crate-1993-Original-Screen-Used-Movie-Prop-/390756055657
[21:43] <shauno> (and a spare velociraptor?)
[21:44] <MartijnVdS> SHOOT HER
[21:44] <MartijnVdS> SHOOT HER!
[21:44] <MartijnVdS> *fade to black*
[21:45] <moreati> the auction claims to include a velociraptor but <montypython>it's only a model</montypython>
[21:55] <Myrtti> not Barney?
[22:00] <popey> pip pip
[22:08] <brobostigon> cool, minecraft has snow
[23:07] <diddledan> why am I getting spams appearing in my inbox from <insertrandomname>@nokiamail.com?
[23:08] <diddledan> they're of the sort that aren't actually trying to sell me anything - just a greeting and that's it
[23:12] <diddledan> hmm yahoo uses some weird protocol called "NNFMP"?
[23:12] <diddledan> (it seems nokiamail.com uses yoohoo?)
[23:16] <diddledan> wtf? the weatherman who used to do the morning slot with the floating map of britain (in a harbour) is being charged with 10 sex offences - they seem to be charging everyone ever who was on the telly in the 80s
[23:20] <diddledan> I'm not saying there isn't a case to answer. only the jury can decide that. it's just crazy the number of celebs that have been arrested of late
[23:21] <diddledan> they can't _all_ be bad, right? right?!