[04:20] <RAOF> duflu: Really? Generalise the X11 support so we can support all the other legacy display servers that litter the Linux ecosystem?
[04:35] <duflu> RAOF: I meant generalize for spawning other processes Mir "might need"
[04:35] <RAOF> Which would be the process-spawner MP that it depends upon?
[04:35] <duflu> But that's less important than ensuring we don't have a hard build-dep. Perhaps optional
[04:36] <RAOF> It's just for the (disabled) acceptance test (at this point).
[04:37] <duflu> RAOF: Just worth thinking about how to avoiding mentioning "X" so much. There's always another solution no one has thought of
[04:37] <duflu> RAOF: So long as we don't try to compile code (or require it) that includes X11/*
[04:37] <duflu> Maybe optional
[04:39] <duflu> RAOF: I don't yet understand why Mir has to own the Spawner actually. I need educating
[04:39] <RAOF> It doesn't *have* to, but it's convenient if it does.
[04:41] <RAOF> Particularly - shells which want to provide seamless X11 support will need to do a bunch of stuff between "I want to start an app that uses X11" and "I've got a Surface that comes from this X11 app".
[04:48] <duflu> Meanwhile, I finally hit the brick wall of bypass requires 4 buffers to work properly :P
[06:32] <RAOF> Hm.
[06:32]  * RAOF dislikes process::ProcessFactory
[06:37] <duflu> In a way "ps" is more meaningful. Because "ps" is specifically always an OS process and not a generic term for a methodology :)
[06:37]  * duflu ducks
[06:41] <RAOF> How would you feel about process::Factory? :)
[08:22] <duflu> RAOF, mlankhorst: Anyone know if hardware cursor movement implicitly triggers another wait for vblank? I mean... how/when is it rendered if we're not flipping pages?
[08:59] <mlankhorst> duflu: no
[09:00] <mlankhorst> it's implemented as an overlay
[09:00] <duflu> mlankhorst: I mean how does it fit into the physical display timing...?
[09:00] <duflu> Hardware cursors seem to update much faster than anything else
[09:01] <mlankhorst> no they are updated on next frame, always tear free
[09:02] <mlankhorst> at least when you update the position
[09:04] <duflu> mlankhorst: OK. Sounds like the "next frame" to DRM is sooner than the next frame Mir is able to flip
[09:04] <duflu> Weirtd
[09:04] <duflu> Weird
[09:04] <mlankhorst> duflu: it's an overlay, so it might be possible
[09:04]  * duflu wonders if there's a wait for vblank hiding inside SwapBuffers
[09:05] <duflu> That would explain it
[09:05] <mlankhorst> possibly
[09:06] <duflu> Otherwise there's no logical reason (I can think of) why the hardware cursor would ever get ahead of compositing
[09:06] <mlankhorst> well it can be updated while the screen is already drawing, cursor is special :P
[09:06]  * mlankhorst guesses
[09:07] <duflu> That's another explanation
[09:07] <mlankhorst> cursor is special, it's not part of a page flip
[09:08] <duflu> Yeah there's obviously more display logic beyond my programmer's view
[09:13] <mlankhorst> ah cursor has its own channel
[09:13] <mlankhorst> figures :P]
[09:23] <mlankhorst> so page flipping has nothing to do with a cursor :)
[09:31] <duflu> mlankhorst: What's a channel? :)
[09:44] <mlankhorst> duflu: sorry, it's used for command submission, probably some kind of fifo
[09:45] <mlankhorst> nvidia probably calls it different
[11:35]  * duflu throws gmock out the window and gains karma
[11:36] <anpok_> not surface?
[11:37]  * ogra_ hopes you checked if someone wlaked outside before doing that ... 
[11:37] <ogra_> *walked
[12:35] <ricmm> Saviq: ping
[12:35] <Saviq> ricmm, pong
[12:36] <ricmm> Saviq: do you know if the shell is the one who currently does restore of old brightness
[12:36] <ricmm> if the screen has gone dim?
[12:36] <Saviq> ricmm, no, powerd is doing all atm
[12:36] <ricmm> or is powerd doing the whole bit
[12:36] <ricmm> ok
[12:40] <Saviq> ricmm, while I have you here, did you have a think about making the N7 landscape?
[12:52] <alf_> alan_g: anpok_: Please take a look at lp:~afrantzis/mir/using-stub-client-platform when you get some time (mir-screencast-basic-client-api depends on this functionality landing).
[12:52] <alan_g> alf_: ack
[13:26] <ricmm> Saviq: I think it should all happen in the shell
[13:26] <Saviq> ricmm, not for MWC it can't
[14:23] <fginther> kgunn, you pinged me yesterday I think?
[14:24] <kgunn> fginther: yep..no worries...i got helped
[14:24] <fginther> kgunn, good to hear
[15:20] <ricmm> kdub_: :)
[15:42] <dandrader> maybe restarting xchat does the trick
[15:42] <dandrader> oops, wrong channel
[16:32] <kdub_> ricmm, Saviq for rotation, the mir compositor will rotate all the surfaces to be composited if the display is reconfigured with a different orientation
[16:32] <Saviq> kdub_, how about input?
[16:32] <kdub_> i'm unsure about input
[16:33] <Saviq> kdub_, yeah, if it doesn't transform input then we need to do it higher anyway
[19:37] <bregma> is there an easy way to take a screenshot when Mir is running as the system compositor (er, without using a camera on a tripod pointed at the screen)?
[20:39] <kgunn> bregma: i'll fwd you a mail alf sent racarr
[20:40] <bregma> kgunn, thanks
[20:41] <kgunn> bregma: sure, if you have any issues, feel free to hit up alf in the morning
[20:42] <kgunn> kdub_: (or anyone)....so if you update manta to 4.4.2 are you stuck using rsalveti's preview img's ?
[20:43] <kgunn> e.g. i have to go back to 4.2.2 to use the phablet distro images ?
[20:43]  * kgunn wants to avoid bricking
[21:46] <kdub_> kgunn, you have to flash the radio
[21:46] <kdub_> but you can go back and forth between them
[21:58] <kgunn> kdub_: yeah...i see now...no biggie