[00:19] <pvl1> so what is it that drives us to use linux
[00:19] <pvl1> well ubuntu rather
[01:19] <GuruPilgrim> pvl1: do you mean in general? from another OS?
[01:19] <pvl1> GuruPilgrim: yeah, i mean thats our only other option, other than not using computers
[01:21] <GuruPilgrim> for me, it's doing things. getting things done.
[01:22] <pvl1> but wht makes it anymore productive than other os's
[01:22] <GuruPilgrim> when i want to make something, design something, share something, i go to my big, open, Ubuntu studio.
[01:22] <GuruPilgrim> it's quicker, i don't have to worry about bluescreens, viruses, malware, popups...
[01:23] <GuruPilgrim> i can just go do things without waiting for the computer.
[01:23] <GuruPilgrim> i can leave it on for months at a time if need be without having to reboot.
[01:23] <GuruPilgrim> if the gui breaks, it's not the end of the world. i can jump into a virtual terminal and still do things.
[01:24] <GuruPilgrim> there's less maintenance.
[01:24] <GuruPilgrim> applications are easier to find.
[01:25] <GuruPilgrim> i mean, i could go on. lol. I support Windows 7 full time, so coming home to a bunch of Linux systems is very refreshing.
[01:26] <pvl1> i feel like explaining this to a person that hasnt used linux/ubuntu is damn near impossible
[01:27] <pvl1> i know of so many people who would be best of just using linux
[01:27] <GuruPilgrim> hmm.
[01:27] <GuruPilgrim> indeed.
[01:27] <pvl1> but theres such a learning curve, and people dont like change
[01:27] <GuruPilgrim> learning curve?
[01:27] <GuruPilgrim> oh. the "but it's not Windows" learning curve....
[01:28] <pvl1> but the fact remains: no bluescreen of death (which imho only gamers encounter), no viruses(which everyone just says "oh i have symantic.norton, avg, spybot, and more BS running"), etc
[01:28] <pvl1> but then when you say hey, theres a solution... its always oh but its not windows
[01:29] <pvl1> there should be a system of *steps* to move from windows to ubuntu
[01:30] <GuruPilgrim> (bluescreens happen a lot actually... not just to gamers.)
[01:30] <pvl1> those that just use intel graphics (which is probably most)
[01:30] <GuruPilgrim> so, here's the problem. people think that Linux isn't an operating system. they think it's some foreign geeky thing that they'll never understand
[01:31] <GuruPilgrim> i mean, you can tell them, it's just like Windows, but they'll still feel like it's a world away
[01:31] <GuruPilgrim> so,
[01:31] <GuruPilgrim> step one, a person has to come to a point where they're ready to approach a computer.
[01:31] <GuruPilgrim> sounds stupid simple, i know... but think about it.
[01:32] <GuruPilgrim> if they let go of all their pre-conceptions, and approach a computer with a desire to do things, they will likely choose Linux on their own.
[01:33] <GuruPilgrim> so how do you change their mind?
[01:33] <GuruPilgrim> unfortunately, too often, you won't
[01:34] <GuruPilgrim> maybe there is more we can do.
[01:35] <GuruPilgrim> i mean, i'm trying to do more by being evangelistic about it, holding events that focus on new users etc. but that only goes so far.
[01:41] <GuruPilgrim> just maybe, what we need is a single technical field to dominate.
[01:42] <GuruPilgrim> Mac has designers. what if Ubuntu could really become the premier in a particular field?
[02:01] <pvl1> well, tbh while i absolutly hate unity, i think thats gonna be a potential winner there
[02:02] <pvl1> because the whole thing is that PC's are changing. were moving more into a touch focused world
[02:02] <pvl1> tablets, smart phones etc
[02:02] <pvl1> so an intuitive interface is key. and unity is pretty. its eyecandy that really does work
[10:14] <rmg51> Morning
[13:18] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, dogs, turkeys, hamsters and everything else
[13:24] <lazyPower> morning teddy
[13:40] <teddy-dbear> o/
[13:50] <InHisName> Morning
[14:20] <InHisName1> Uggghhh, ubuntu asked to restart.   Upon selecting normal ubuntu in grub, it power cycles and reboots.  What's going on ???
[14:21] <JonathanD> InHisName1: sounds broken.
[14:21] <InHisName1> Yes and you have a fix for me also ?
[14:21] <JonathanD> I don't.
[14:21] <JonathanD> I'd try booting single user and see if you can get anywhere.
[14:21] <InHisName1> It's been booting fine until this last update.
[14:22] <InHisName1> how to boot single user, its been a long time since i did that
[14:23] <InHisName1> Is it somewhere under 'ubuntu options' in grub ?
[14:25] <JonathanD> select ubuntu in grub, hit e, add "single" end of the line that includes "ro quiet" or such
[14:26] <jedijf> easier might be booting previous kernel ;)
[14:27] <JonathanD> oh, maybe :p
[14:29] <InHisName1> Tried x-35 and x-34 kernels both reg and recovery.  All power off.    I'll try the edit to single, now.
[14:31] <InHisName1> I had a phone plugged in to copy some pictures, unplugging it from USB did no change for subsequent reboot tries.
[14:33] <InHisName1> Nope. powers off with 'single' added after quiet
[14:38] <jedijf> beeps?
[14:38] <jedijf> start to pull ram - one stick at a time and try last known working kernel
[14:43] <InHisName1> No beeps, does get to grub, select anything, 4 seconds later power is off.   Current kernel  ends with -35, prev ends with -34.  Both behave same way since last update from ubuntu.
[14:43] <InHisName1> I can run memtest before grub and see if it likes my memory....
[14:44] <InHisName1> wife wants me to shovel a neighbors drive, bbl8tr
[14:48] <InHisName> I've booted, but didn't do a thing.   Not sure why it would not boot, or why it just did now.
[14:49] <InHisName> I switched my KVM box back to main pc and power started back up so I tried to boot and it worked.
[14:49] <InHisName> Normally I've pressed the switch on pwrsupply to off then back to on and restarted computer.
[14:49] <InHisName> off to shovel for now
[15:06] <JonathanD> I'm realizing my ubuntu is a little broken too
[15:08] <JonathanD> less than before
[15:08] <JonathanD> but broken.
[15:54] <MutantTurkey> my debian is now broken on my x220
[15:54] <MutantTurkey> wifi is super unreliable
[15:54] <MutantTurkey> i try wicd and network manager and both are not functional
[15:54] <MutantTurkey> sigh
[16:27] <pvl1> I debootstrapped the standard install, got i3, wicd
[16:27] <pvl1> boots so fast
[16:41] <MutantTurkey> hey
[16:41] <MutantTurkey> so
[16:41] <MutantTurkey> what's debootstrapped?
[16:41] <MutantTurkey> is loveee i3
[16:42] <MutantTurkey> so if you guys were developing a site for a band, what backend would you use. Wordpress/Drupal or something so they can edit it?
[16:47] <InHisName> edlin ?
[17:12] <JonathanD> MutantTurkey: probably wordpress unless it's an application site.
[17:12] <MutantTurkey> yeah i think wordpress is what i'll use
[17:12] <JonathanD> keeping drupal updated is a more technical thing.
[17:12] <JonathanD> I wouldn't hand that over.
[17:14] <MutantTurkey> and upgrading is almost impossible to cleanly ude
[17:21] <lazyPower> MutantTurkey, I've had good success with LocomotiveCMS
[17:21] <lazyPower> but its a fairly new contender in the CMS scene
[17:22] <KyleYankan> i just use rherpad.
[17:22] <KyleYankan> etherpad*
[17:22] <KyleYankan> best CMS system around. ask JonathanD
[17:23] <JonathanD> oh, right.
[17:23] <JonathanD> MutantTurkey: use etherpad-cms
[17:23] <JonathanD> KyleYankan: I added templating to that.
[17:23] <JonathanD> headers and footers and such
[17:24] <KyleYankan> nice work
[17:24] <JonathanD> also a way to do markdown
[17:24] <JonathanD> instead of html
[18:09] <waltman> I'm all about markdown these days.
[18:09] <JonathanD> By the way, we facebook-announced fosscon 2014 today.
[18:09] <waltman> woot
[18:09] <JonathanD> and the doctor has not liked it yet.
[18:09] <JonathanD> I'm very sad.
[18:10] <JonathanD> Also I did a fresh install of ubuntu today and it's super snappy now.
[18:11] <waltman> There.
[18:11] <JonathanD> waltman: thanks :P
[20:41] <InHisName> so quiet this afteronefifteen
[21:31] <MutantTurkey>  septa question - can i get a transfer on the subway for a bus?
[22:02] <waltman> MutantTurkey: yes
[22:02] <MutantTurkey> cool
[22:03] <MutantTurkey> forgot my tokens of course
[22:03] <pvl1> bus tokens?
[22:04] <waltman> I grew up in NE Philly. Coming home from the city I'd take the MFL->Rt. 66. You'd get the transfer on the bus going into the city, and the el going back home.
[22:05] <waltman> As long as you're in the city, buses, subways, trolleys and els are all the same wrt transfers.
[22:06] <waltman> The only exception being the places in center city where they have free transfers.
[22:06] <MutantTurkey> just hit the subway attendent?
[22:06] <waltman> If you give the attendent a token + money for the transfer, they'll give you the transfer.
[22:06] <MutantTurkey> when you go on?
[22:07] <waltman> granted it's been a long time since I've needed a transfer, but I don't think they've changed the system.
[22:07] <waltman> yes
[22:07] <MutantTurkey> thanks!
[22:08] <waltman> Now if you're going out into the burbs on something like the norristown high speed line, things get crazy.
[22:09] <MutantTurkey> because?
[22:09] <MutantTurkey> yeah i'd be going up to WG
[22:09] <waltman> there are zones and suchlike
[22:09] <waltman> You're taking a bus to Willow Grove?
[22:10] <waltman> doesn't the train go out there?
[22:11] <MutantTurkey> yeah
[22:11] <MutantTurkey> it's 5.75 one way i think
[22:11] <MutantTurkey> bus is 2.80
[22:11] <MutantTurkey> so
[22:12] <waltman> train is faster and more comfortable
[22:12] <waltman> So you'd be taking the BSL to Fern Rock and then a bus?
[22:12] <MutantTurkey> faster by 10 minutes
[22:12] <MutantTurkey> to olney
[22:12] <MutantTurkey> and, i have to walk home from the train
[22:13] <MutantTurkey> bus is right next to my parents (50 feet)
[22:13] <waltman> ah. how far is the train station?
[22:13] <MutantTurkey> 1hour 2 minutes by train, 1 hour 12 minutes by bus/sub
[22:13] <MutantTurkey> .5 miles
[22:13] <waltman> It takes an hour to get from 30th st to willow grove?!
[22:14] <MutantTurkey> yup
[22:14] <MutantTurkey> it's like 25 minutes to temple
[22:14] <MutantTurkey> that's the issue
[22:15] <waltman> wow
[22:15] <MutantTurkey> it's more like 45 + walking
[22:15] <MutantTurkey> speakin of gotta catch the train
[22:15] <waltman> ok, that I can see
[22:15] <MutantTurkey> cya and thanks!
[22:15] <waltman> good luck
[22:15] <waltman> wait, what I said only applies inside the city!
[22:15] <waltman> I don't know from suburban buses!
[22:15] <waltman> Godspeed!
[22:16] <waltman> Wait, can't you just fly there?
[22:16] <pvl1> token +  dollar = ride+ transferpass
[22:16] <pvl1> same thing in suburbia septa
[22:16] <pvl1> g2g later