jjfrv8knome, I'm here00:23
knomejjfrv8, o hai!00:25
knomejjfrv8, we should look into getting you to ~ubuntu-core-do00:26
jjfrv8what's involved in that?00:26
knomejjfrv8, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Organization#Requirements_for_Ubuntu_Documentation_Committers00:27
knomejjfrv8, what you need to do now is mail ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com with your free form application to be applied to the team00:28
jjfrv8ok, I can do some of that homework that I haven't completed yet.00:28
knomeYou can apply to join either of these teams by posting to the mailing list and asking to be added. Please provide evidence that you satisfy the requirements in this section. It's particularly helpful if you can include links to concrete examples of your work, such as wiki pages or patches. 00:28
jjfrv8hehe, haven't done any of that00:29
knomei can help you getting the mail in shape (as can pleia2), and once you've applied, i can also +1 your application00:29
knomewell, i can guarantee you have basically all the information you get from #1 (at least in the xubuntu scope)00:30
pleia2oh look, it is documented :) I thought I might have imagined it00:30
knomeyou have done #2 (i can confirm that as well)00:30
knomei guess the only thing you need to look is #3, the bug control pages00:30
knomeand get the mail sent :)00:30
jjfrv8all right, will do00:31
jjfrv8I'll let you know when I'm ready to work on the mail?00:31
knomejjfrv8, basically it's enough that you can check the three first points in the "generic requirements" section, the rest is optional/related to direct memberships00:32
ochosiUnit193: could you do a rather simplistic package for xubuntu?00:32
knomesure, though i'm off to bed soon for today00:32
ochosiUnit193: hint: http://xubuntu.org/news/community-wallpaper-contest-winners/00:33
jjfrv8knome, another question before you go: how come you deleted the SRU item from the BP instead of marking it done?00:33
knomejjfrv8, there is a bug linked to the blueprints00:33
knomejjfrv8, that counts as one work item; we don't want multiple work items per one task00:34
knomeand yeah, the SRU with fixed looks should be in now00:34
ochosinight everyone00:34
knomenighty ochosi00:35
jjfrv8it's not all the way in, is it?  I just checked and it doesn't show up as an  update yet.00:35
knomejjfrv8, do you have -proposed enabled?00:35
knomethen it's probably taking some time; seb128 has sponsored it though, so it should be in sooner or later00:36
jjfrv8I'll keep checking00:36
jjfrv8I keep looking for noskcaj's weather plugin too but haven't seen that yet00:37
knomewas there any other reply from ted apart that he is interested? did you follow up on that further?00:37
jjfrv8is that about the weather thing? I didn't think there was anything to do but wait for it to go through00:38
knomeno, that was about docs stuff00:39
knomegot mail from ted on 15th saying "Yes, yes, very interested!", but no further communication regarding that00:39
jjfrv8Oh, that.  Yes we've traded e-mails.  He's working through the bzr stuff.  He got stuck at the same spot I did00:39
knomeok, good :)00:39
jjfrv8I sent him unit193's workaround but haven't heard back to see if it worked yet00:40
jjfrv8never heard back from the other guy00:40
knomeright, that happens00:41
knomeif you are seriously stuck with bzr, you can CC me as well, or ask him to join us on IRC00:41
jjfrv8I did (the latter)00:41
knomewe have other tasks (not related to bzr) open for work as well, so it's not really a hard requirement at this point00:41
jjfrv8right, it's where he wanted to start, though00:42
knomeok, that's fine00:42
Unit193Workaround for something?00:42
knomethe -devel mailing list is completely fine to discuss problems with bzr and stuff, as long as it is directly related trying to get something done for xubuntu ;)00:43
jjfrv8Unit193, last spring when you and knome were helping me learn the bzr ropes I had some LP issues and you fixed them00:43
Unit193Oh, cool.00:43
knomewondering if it's about LP/bzr "knowing you"00:43
knomeand setting up keys and that00:44
jjfrv8pasting some text into ~\.ssh\config00:44
Unit193Ahhh, that.00:44
knomeok, i'm off to bed00:57
knomeemail, PM me and i'll reply when i get back00:57
slickymasternight knome 00:57
knomesee you, and nighty!00:57
slickymasterI'm off to00:58
slickymastercy tomorrow guys00:58
Noskcajto anyone interested on my current status; Internet is completely dead; ubuntu-gnome took all of the time at the MOTU meeting and applying by email still isn't working; pyexcept is updated in debian, mugshot and menulibre are being reviewed now; gthumb 3.3 is now in ubuntu00:58
Noskcajg'night knome, slickymaster 00:58
Noskcajmicahg: Any progress on the weather-plugin SRU?01:03
micahghrm, was I supposed to upload something?01:04
micahgit's in unapproved01:05
Unit193knome: Got the emails of the winners?01:14
Unit193ochosi: ^?01:14
Unit193ochosi: 9.1M Jan 28 20:37 gavinash_solitude.jpg  not so small.01:37
elfybluesabre: not even going to try to do a testcase for menulibre until there's some sort of docs for it07:03
ochosiUnit193: yeah i know, we'll have to get in touch with all the authors (probably won't get to it until next week, so if you wanna take over, that'd be great), we can get in touch with them via the wiki accounts i think07:36
ochosiUnit193: of one or two i might have email addresses as well07:36
ochosiUnit193: anyway, if you're generally willing to take this task, i'd assign the packaging to you in the artwork-blueprint07:37
elfymorning ochosi 07:40
ochosimorning elfy 07:40
elfyochosi: any change with the gtk3 inds - are we still looking to get them in this cycle?07:42
ochosiyup, we are07:43
elfyok :)07:43
ochosiwe're kinda waiting for a panel-release07:43
ochosibut i think we should get a git-snapshot in asap07:43
ochosiso that we get more testing07:43
elfyright 07:43
ochosiNoskcaj said he was going to look into that, but obviously he has troubles with his connection07:43
ochosisorry, gotta run, bbl07:43
pmjdebruijnochosi: congrats with the wallpapers content/contest :)08:30
ochosipmjdebruijn: thanks :)09:08
slickymastermorning all09:46
elfyhi slickymaster 09:46
slickymasterhey elfy09:47
Unit193ochosi: No, I'm looking for copyright reasons, I have it all done otherwise.09:48
ochosiUnit193: oh, nice. i sent out some contact requests, i also want to know who wants to be attributed how09:48
slickymasterelfy: I see you're waiting for MenuLibre docs to start working on its testcase09:49
slickymasterthing is, that from what I've seen, those docs are bound to became a huge task09:50
elfyslickymaster: well ... 09:51
elfythat's as maybe - but as it stands I can't even make the thing work :p09:51
slickymasterI was planning on porting the mugshot docs to docbook format, so they can be integrated in the xubuntu docs and then, after that, start to work on the MenuLibre ones09:52
elfyyea - I read that 09:54
elfythat said we don't test alacarte 09:55
elfyso I guess the testing is more about making sure it works - which it doesn't for me :p09:55
slickymastertbh, even though I already installed it, I haven't tried it yet09:56
Unit193ochosi: Want to take a look?09:57
ochosiUnit193: sure thing09:57
elfyslickymaster: I've tried it - can't make it work - got other stuff to do :)09:57
slickymasteryeah, there's no way we can nag about being left with nothing to do09:58
slickymasterknome: ping09:59
Unit193ochosi: You know packaging well enough to play with the source package, or just bin?10:01
ochosiUnit193: i think the source package could be fine10:02
ochosiif i have troubles, i'll ask10:02
Unit193https://unit193.net/xubuntu-community-artwork_14.04.0.dsc - https://unit193.net/xubuntu-community-wallpapers_14.04.0_all.deb10:09
ochosiUnit193: looks good to me!10:18
ochosiso basically you need to fill in the email addresses into the <> and it's ready10:18
Unit193d/copyright of course isn't done, but otherwise.10:18
ochosii'll PM you the email addresses i have10:18
Unit193Doh, right, I know yours.  But that's different than the one.10:19
knomeslickymaster, pong10:46
slickymasterknome: regarding mugshot in docbook format. Do you think that it's best to make a brand new xml file to add the /desktop-guide/C/ folder or is it to be added to a existing xml file in that folder?10:48
knomelet me see10:48
knomei think it could be a new section that falls between 3 and 410:50
knomewe could move "customizing the appearance" and the menulibre stuff there as well10:50
knomewhat do you think?10:50
slickymastergive me a sec10:51
slickymasterwell, they would both definitely fall under the Customizing the appearance section of Chapter 310:55
knomenot really10:55
knomeappearance is not personal details or the menu structure10:55
slickymasteryou don't think so?10:55
knomeappearance is.. appearance10:55
knomehow things look10:55
knomeand that section is already somewhat big10:55
knomebut all three do have one thing in common: customizing10:55
slickymasterMenuLibre is bound to somehow change the appearance of the desktop10:56
slickymasterbut the same doesn't happens with mugshot though10:57
knomei understand what you are saying, but i'm not thinking "appearance" is as big entity as you do10:57
slickymasterI see10:57
knomenew section could be named "Tailoring the desktop for your personal preferences"10:57
knomeor sth10:57
knomeprobably not that exactly10:58
knomebecause if we think about it10:58
knomecurrently, section 3 is named "Getting to know..."10:58
knomeand customizing something isn't really "getting to know", it's the next step already10:58
slickymasterso, following your reasoning that would result in another new chapter between the existing 3 and 4?10:58
knomethat chapter could ultimately also have a link to chapter 8 "managing installed applications"10:59
knomebut that's minor details11:00
knomewould you like me to set up the new chapter?11:00
slickymasteryeah, but I see the logic of it11:00
slickymasterknome: you could draw me a rough draft of it, so I can get an idea of how it's done11:01
knomei'll prepare it, just a sec11:01
slickymasterit will be my first endeavor on making on in docbook from scratch11:01
knomemeanwhile, give me a good name for the chapter11:01
knomeheh, yeah, what a way to start ;)11:01
slickymasterI must say that I do like your suggestion: "Tailoring the desktop for your personal preferences"11:02
knomeit's probably a tad long11:02
slickymasterlet me think11:03
knomefwiw, i'm naming the "stub" customizing-desktop11:04
slickymasterare there any restrictions on the string length, or is it just intended to be straight forward?11:06
knome"Customizing your system" sounds too technical/heavy/deep11:07
bluesabreelfy, that's reasonable11:07
slickymasterwhat about "Your desktop, your preferences"?11:08
knomeslickymaster, that sounds like a marketing speech :D11:08
slickymaster:D yes, I know11:08
knomeand if we are really strict, it's not really just desktop11:08
bluesabreHave it your way11:08
bluesabreoh wait, thats already taken11:09
knomebluesabre, ideas?11:09
knomewhat about something like "Set up your preferences"11:09
knomethat one is clumsy, but something in that direction maybe11:09
slickymasterbtw bluesabre, are you ok with the mugshot docs?11:09
Unit193Settings and Preferences :P11:10
knomemaybe we should use "customize" in the chapter title11:10
knomeUnit193, oh.. oh!11:10
knomei guess that's it :P11:10
bluesabreone sec11:11
slickymasterso we're sticking with Unit193's suggestion?11:12
knomethat's pretty solid to me11:12
knomewe can talk about tailoring and stuff in the chapter introduciton paragraph11:12
slickymasteragree, I think he nailed it11:13
bluesabreslickymaster: the docs are excellent11:14
slickymasterbluesabre: good to hear11:15
slickymasterI can now stop worrying about that and focus on their docbook implementation11:15
bluesabregood deal11:16
knomebah, will take some time11:21
knomei need to fix some issues with something that i might want to change11:21
slickymasterI'll wait knome 11:22
knomei need to get it done before 12UTC anyway :P11:22
slickymasterhmm that leaves you with jus 40 minutes11:22
slickymasterjust ^^11:22
knomethat's fien11:22
knomecurrently, the toc's only show items from chapter and section11:46
knomebasically saying, two levels11:47
knomedo you think we should allow one more level of section titles in the chapter pages?11:47
knomeeg. in "What is Xubuntu?", should the TOC list headers like "Xubuntu is...", "About the name", etc?11:47
knomeslickymaster, ^11:47
knomei am not sure if this is useful or not11:48
knomecould become handy in the network chapter11:48
knomeand in the new customize chapter11:49
knomeoh well, i'll leave it as it is for now11:51
knomeat least i've prepared the change and know what changing it involves :)11:51
knomeslickymaster, new revision pushed to branch :)11:51
elfyknome: do you want to say more? http://pastebin.com/abhmuY1f12:00
slickymasterknome: I saw it12:02
knomeelfy, http://pastebin.com/YcjY1NaE12:04
elfythat'll do then12:04
slickymasteryes knome, I do concur with you regarding the toc, but if implemented would that be obligatorily implemented in all the chapters?12:07
slickymastermaking the toc a huge tree12:08
slickymasteror can it just be implemented on a need to basis?12:08
knomeslickymaster, what i'm proposing is to expand the TOC only in the chapter pages, not the index12:08
knomeslickymaster, but it would need to affect all chapters12:08
brainwashwow, a news about the wallpaper contest http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/01/xubuntu-14-04-wallpaper-winners12:09
brainwashgreat promotion for xubuntu trusty :)12:10
slickymasterknome: not quite sure if I understand you. where is the TOC implemented in the chpater pages?12:11
knomehas the TOC at the top12:11
slickymasterin the headr of each page?12:11
knomeso that would have all the bold, level 2/3 headers12:11
knomeeg. "Xubuntu is...", "About the name"12:12
knomeprobably a better example: http://docs.xubuntu.org/1310/internet-networks.html12:12
knomein that page, you could jump directly to "Wireless troubleshooting" instead of going to "Network troubleshooting" and scrolling down12:13
slickymasteryeah, no I get it12:13
knomethe index page (http://docs.xubuntu.org/1310/index.html) would be kept as it is12:13
knometo avoid the huge tree, as you said12:13
slickymasteryes, it just a matter of checking the implications of such a change in all the others chapters, besides chapter 6 and the new one12:14
knomei don't think it's a problem for the chapter pages12:15
knomebut if it isn't useful, maybe we shouldn't do that12:15
slickymasterwell, in pragmatic terms, i.e. usability, there would be gains12:16
slickymasterto the common user12:16
knomeexcept maybe in chapter 1 ;)12:16
slickymasterfaster browser between the items12:16
knomewhere the repetition could be a bit meh12:16
knomewe *could* look about going around that as well12:16
knomebut i'll look at that if we decide to change the toc's12:17
slickymasterand if not, it's a matter of weighting the pros and cons of the implementation through all the documentation 12:17
knomei would say most chapters would benefit from that12:18
slickymasteryes, I agree with you on that12:18
Unit193Don't forget to ask Jack?12:18
knomeand some wouldn't change at all, there not being sublevel headings12:18
knomeUnit193, sure.12:18
knomeali12341, what's your panel layout switcher GUI status?12:21
knomebluesabre, do we still have things to push to/import from debian?12:26
bluesabreknome: I'm not sure if Noskcaj has gotten the latest menulibre and mugshot in there yet12:27
bluesabreif you see him today, could you check?12:27
bluesabreI sent him an email regarding it the other day12:27
knomei can try to, but not sure how much i'll be around later today12:27
bluesabreand I'm currently working on catfish-1.0, and I should get that to debian this weekend, we might be able to sync it back down before the freeze12:28
bluesabreotherwise, we'll manually sync it anyway12:29
knomeif you have it ready in debian ahead of DIF, we can poke other people as well to make sure we get it synced12:29
knomeand as usually, i'll help if you need help with anything, just email/PM if i don't seem to be around12:30
knomebbl ->12:33
Unit193knome: Is there any way to refresh the pot so that the translated strings remain translated, just moved?13:22
knomethe pot doens't have translated strings :P14:39
knomeyeah, i imagine there is a way14:40
knomewhat that is... i don't know14:40
knomeat least poedit can "update .po from template"14:40
knomeso i imagine there is a tool that can do that14:40
=== mhall119_ is now known as mhall119
slickymasterbbl after dinner ->17:19
knomeor actually, elfy, ping20:42
elfyok - so 20:45
elfywhat's up20:45
knomelet me dig up the url20:45
elfyor let me guess20:45
knomeok, guess :P20:46
elfyLTS Upgrades Testuite20:46
knomeactually not20:46
knomeis there something that needs poking? :)20:46
elfywell we'll do you first then :p20:46
knomehehe, ok20:46
knomei don't really know what to do with that email20:46
knomei mean it's cool that they want to help test around (or maybe not, maybe they just expect 14.04 to be polished already)20:47
elfymmm - I saw it - but at the wrong time of the day20:47
knomeotoh, don't know how useful it is if they are not going to send reports20:47
elfywell - we have to assume that we've got more than 12 people testing I guess20:47
lderanoh knome i am currently making the "does it open?" test for all the apps so will have a list at the end of it of which ones are going to be a pain and a lot of merge requests to setup :P20:48
knomeand we kind of don't need anybody telling us one can use xubuntu for businesses20:48
elfyknome: yea 20:48
knomepleia2, elfy: maybe we could tell them they could take part in our "Xubuntu at..." series if they decide to use xubuntu20:48
elfyknome: maybe a - "yea, if you want to test that then go ahead, all and any testing is useful. However we're not set up for specific scenarios" 20:49
knomepleia2, elfy: and if they'd also want to talk about their deciding process, and if they really want to go deep, how they wanted to give something back (eg. test stuff)20:49
elfyYou can do it and post to the list 20:49
elfybut - yea - maybe a bit of that and a bit of "xubuntu at ..." 20:50
knomei think it might be too much hassle to help them get started with the test reports20:50
knomebut it might be a good fit for the article series20:50
knomelderan, autopilot that is?20:50
elfytoo much for us to help much - but they could perhaps liase with -qa in general 20:51
knomemhm, well, i don't know20:51
knomemaybe they aren't interested to go in that deep20:51
knomeit just looks they want to get something that works for them20:51
lderanknome, yup20:51
elfymy issue is that given it's like pushing a rock up a hill backwards to get anyone to get involved with testing - I don't like saying no very much ;)20:52
knomepleia2, would you like to set up a reply (i can help) talking about the article series and briefly mentioning "real" testing possibilities20:52
lderanelfy, after im done with this i will be going through the upgrade test :)20:52
elfylderan: that's great :)20:52
knomeelfy, yep, i understand that point, and that's why i'm not too excited about this mail20:52
knomei just marked it as "do something about this" on my inbox...20:52
elfyyep - I can understand that20:52
elfyright - I marked it in my mind and slid it under the carpet in my head 20:53
knomelderan, yep, that's cool :)20:53
knomeelfy, so, what was your thing?20:54
elfyknome: go for it from the xubuntu at perspective - mentioning perhaps the size of team and the qa issues we have 20:54
elfythat - I looked, can;t see what I should be doing 20:54
elfyand I wish I'd not sent that mail this morning :|20:54
knomei'll look20:54
knomeheh. why?20:54
elfynow I've got to send another saying that lts to lts is somewhere else and ignore what I said earlier20:55
knomethat happens20:55
elfyshouldn't have poked nick about a testcase bug lol20:55
elfyknome: is it here ? http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/admin/config/services/qatracker/products/42/testsuites20:56
knomethat's it20:57
knomei just set it up20:57
elfymmm - can't find it :(20:58
* knome pokes elfy in the wooden eye20:59
knomeso the same links20:59
elfyaah yea - wasn't there when I looked :p20:59
knomeand you don't need to send a sorry-mail20:59
elfynope - just a they are now seperate one :)21:00
elfycool - thanks knome :)21:00
knomeprobably not, because i had just added them when you asked about the admin side21:00
elfyokey doke - that all from you? it is from me 21:00
knomei'm fine for now at least :)21:01
elfyI replied to the Richard guy on the m/l a short while ago21:01
elfyokey doke 21:01
elfyworking tomorrow - be about for the meeting though21:01
knomemhm, have fun :)21:02
elfylderan: any chance of getting some of the which work and which don't before tomorrow's meeting?21:02
elfydon't sweat it if not - another week won't hurt given it's been simmering for almost 2 cycles :p21:02
knomeanybody has an opinion re: bug 1004400 ?21:02
ubottubug 1004400 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu: default double click time is too short" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/100440021:02
elfymy opinion is that I've never got the double click to work on the window title bar 21:03
brainwashit's fixed upstream21:03
elfyI've not got an issue with it being increased 21:05
lderanelfy, thats my plan21:05
elfylderan: thanks 21:05
lderanthen the poor dan will get flooded with MPs :(21:06
lderanwhich will make us have more tests then Ubuntu :D21:06
elfyha ha ha 21:07
elfyI need to get my head around jenkins and the reports21:07
lderani need to setup my own jenkins at somepoint21:09
elfyok - off now - cya tomorrow eventually21:11
slickymasternight all21:13
knomehello slickymaster 21:13
slickymasterhi knome 21:13
lderanHi slickymaster21:15
slickymasterhey lderan 21:16
slickymasterknome, where you thinking in ant particular order for the sections in the settings-preferences.xml or can I just continue after the last existing section?21:18
knomeslickymaster, thought maybe personal info (mugshot) - appearance - menu(libre)21:19
slickymasterbut those after the existing section "customizing-desktop-effects", right?21:21
knomeslickymaster, eh, read again ;)21:21
slickymasternow you lost me, knome 21:23
knomeslickymaster, heh, ok, so21:24
slickymasterthere are currently 4 sections in the xml file and I guess that those are to remain there21:24
knomeslickymaster, i thought mugshot stuff should come before existing stuff21:24
knomeslickymaster, and the menu docs after21:24
knomeisn't that a logical order?21:24
knomepersonal preferences -> looks -> menu editing21:24
slickymasterwon't argue with that logic21:24
* knome shrugs21:25
knomeat worst, we can reorder later21:25
slickymasterokie dokie21:25
slickymastera last thing, do you want me to finish the intro paragraph, also?21:25
knomedefinitely ;)21:26
knomejust left it there to make the landing a bit softer for you21:28
* slickymaster will try to do what the cats do, and land on his feet21:29
knomeit's funny, the higher you fall, the easier that is21:29
knomebut the more it will hurt...21:30
slickymasterwell, no pain... no gain21:30
jjfrv8knome, are you about?22:19
jjfrv8can you do a PM?22:21
lderanknome & elfy http://paste.ubuntu.com/6840722/23:03
knomelderan, ok, good, so what's the next step?23:05
knomeor do we have to be satisfied with that? :)23:06
lderan:P will see if i can get the stubborn ones to work, tho don't have much hope with onboard and notes as they don't make normal windows.23:06
knomeright, but what about the ones that work?23:07
lderanand make indivial merge requests for the rest and then begin writing the more complicated tests for the ones we can press buttons in23:07
knomeare we able to extend those, or "is that it"?23:07
lderanyup we can, we can test the settings manager for the options that open new windows like the main menu settings, but for the ones don't like appearance we can't see if it changes the window's title :(23:08
knomecatfish, mousepad, ristretto, xfce4-* look especially interesting :)23:08
lderanwill keep you updated on discoveries tho23:09
knomethanks for looking at it23:09
lderanno problem, apologies for being not more time on it sooner.23:10
lderanspending* I can't type today / ever :P23:11
lderanright time for the upgrade test23:16

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