[02:45] ochosi: So only thing we're waiting for is knome to ack and someone to upload, right? Everyone is fine with their email/name/etc? [02:46] ack from my side. [02:54] You don't even know if I filled it with rats or something. [02:55] we'll find out... [02:59] Did anyone save the rejected ones? [03:00] no, they were infinitely deleted from the planet earth [03:00] Bummer. [03:01] they are still in /Accepted [03:01] and in a secret tarball somewhere [03:01] and my, ochosi's and probably pleia2's harddrives [03:14] mine too [03:14] * bluesabre is sneaky [06:07] Unit193: i've sent them all an email together, let's give them until after the weekend to respond. just in case someone doesnt want their email or realname there... [06:14] Unit193: so far i only collected the infos, only one of them has ack'ed it expressis verbis [06:15] Sure, it'd take a while to get it up anywho. [06:16] menulibre is now updated, mugshot is upload ready [06:16] and i'll do parole later tonight [06:17] i presume 0.6? [06:19] yeah [06:24] cool [06:39] mugshot's uploaded, but in NEW [07:36] lderan: thanks - seen the pastebin [08:54] I'd like to add a couple of apps to be autostarted when the user logs in, by default. How does one add that for users, by default? [09:01] Ah, /etc/xdg/autostart/*.desktop [09:31] morning all [10:29] work meeting [10:29] bbl after lunch -> [11:26] zequence: You may want to make sure it doesn't conflict with another package or settings package. You can use /etc/xdg/ubuntustudio/autostart/ if the path already exists in another package. [11:31] Unit193: It's for the next version of the application ubuntustudio-controls, and the idea is that it should autostart on any DE [11:32] There's a way to make it only start on certain DEs though, specified in the desktop file [11:32] even if put in /etc/xdg/autostart [11:33] Yep, and to exclude a few. [11:33] OnlyShowIn, NotShownIn. [14:08] bug 880533 [14:08] bug 880533 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar reports Trash Empty when it is not" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/880533 [14:09] not yet fixed, delete a file and relog to reproduce it [14:22] brainwash, where's your patch for the bug? [14:56] knome: work in progress I guess [15:25] does anyone here use whisker menu? [15:27] if it's the left most item in the panel and you try to drag a panel window button, does the whisker menu panel item turn black? [15:30] nevermind, it's a known issue [15:31] * pmjdebruijn uses 1.3.1 backported to saucy [15:34] https://github.com/gottcode/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/issues/37 [15:34] BUT it might affect more/all external panel plugins [15:35] occasionally it happens to the places plugin too [15:35] sounds like a panel bug? [15:36] could be, marking whisker menu as internal plugin apparently resolves the glitch [15:36] btw in the next intel video driver there are going to be some nice fixes, which are relevant for xfwm [15:36] brainwash: huh? [15:37] "Something else that also solved the bug for me was making the plugin internal instead of external." [15:38] you mean SNA related fixes? [15:38] define internal vs external? [15:38] brainwash: indeed [15:38] I helped troubleshoot like 5+ bugs in grand total [15:38] 2 were xfwm artifacts with sna [15:38] and 3 were TearFree related (which defaults to off) [15:39] ppor dev, he is working on SNA on a daily base, but it still causes so many glitches [15:39] tearfree related? did not notice anything odd [15:40] do you have tearfree enabled i nthe intel driver? [15:40] (not xfwm) [15:40] currently not, but I did enable it occasionally [15:40] will latest git master it should finally be reliable [15:40] I hit a lot of issues using chromium [15:40] but didn't notice anything strange [15:41] chromium :) [15:41] other than the expected performance loss [15:41] oh ok [15:41] there were lots of cornercases :) [15:41] firefox here [15:41] yeah didn't have any issues there either [15:41] and I had some weird issue with scummvm :) [15:41] like I said, I helped troubleshoot 5 (or 6?) issues by now :) [15:41] ickle did the hard work of actually fixing stuff [15:42] awesome :) [15:42] just trying to get the intel driver in as best shape as possible for the next LTS [15:43] hopefully we get all the fixes to land in trusty [15:44] and regarding internal/external -> https://github.com/gottcode/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/issues/37#issuecomment-29758966 [15:45] I assume that the internal plugins are all those which ship with xfce4-panel [15:45] app menu, window buttons,.. [15:46] I'll file a report against xfce4-panel after some more testing [15:51] * slickymaster damns his work internet connection [15:55] slickymaster, yes (re: docs meeting) [15:55] any reason not o? [15:55] to [15:55] knome: ok, just lost connectivity and didn't notice [15:55] if you've answer [15:55] it's ok with me [15:55] ;) [16:42] pmjdebruijn: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10656 [16:42] bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10656 in General "Dragging a panel window button turns external panel plugin black" [Normal,New] [17:33] knome: I have to go and pick up my kid at school. will be back in about 45 minutes [17:33] -> [18:01] nice, fixed power-indicator already landed in trusty (with support for xfce4-powerman) [18:59] if I disappear unexpectedly, it's because I've got like a triple remote connection going on here [18:59] hah, sounds fun [18:59] if it stays up :) [18:59] #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting [18:59] Meeting started Thu Jan 30 18:59:47 2014 UTC. The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [18:59] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired [18:59] so who's here for the meeting [18:59] o/ [19:00] o/ [19:00] o/ [19:01] yep [19:01] ok, cool [19:01] let me get my act together :d [19:01] !team | meeting time [19:01] meeting time: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193 [19:02] #topic Open action items from previous meeting [19:02] #action ali1234 follows up on gtk3 indicator status [19:02] ACTION: ali1234 follows up on gtk3 indicator status [19:02] #action elfy to poke Noskcaj if time-admin and users-admin do not exist in the next daily [19:02] ACTION: elfy to poke Noskcaj if time-admin and users-admin do not exist in the next daily [19:02] did that happen? [19:02] again already? [19:02] where does the time go? [19:02] ali1234, shoo :P [19:02] poked and nothing happened [19:02] keeping it carried on to make sure things happen [19:03] o/ [19:03] #action knome to be in touch with people re Tech Lead position [19:03] ACTION: knome to be in touch with people re Tech Lead position [19:03] still TBD [19:03] #action knome to send an email to the mailing list re: bluetooth [19:03] ACTION: knome to send an email to the mailing list re: bluetooth [19:04] TBD [19:04] #action ochosi to follow up on xfce 4.12 release with nick and report back [19:04] ACTION: ochosi to follow up on xfce 4.12 release with nick and report back [19:04] #action ~QA to write tests for new packages, sync to tracker and call for testing [19:04] ACTION: ~QA to write tests for new packages, sync to tracker and call for testing [19:04] elfy, want to carry that on? [19:04] well it's ongoing [19:05] i ask you a simple yes/no question and you start with "well..." ;) [19:05] well ... [19:05] yes [19:05] do you need a weekly reminder? [19:05] no [19:05] ok [19:05] haha, so dropping it then :P [19:05] #undo [19:05] Removing item from minutes: [19:05] ok :p [19:05] #action team members that are able to test/use bluetooth stuff, consider which software they would like to use, if it matters [19:05] ACTION: team members that are able to test/use bluetooth stuff, consider which software they would like to use, if it matters [19:05] #nick team [19:05] that's it. [19:05] #topic Team updates [19:06] please use #info and #action (for new action items) as appropriate [19:06] lderan, autopilot [19:06] Unit193, -core email [19:06] #info knome updated the meetings page with the new structure [19:06] #info slickymaster finished Mugshot's online documentation -> http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=mugshot-docs [19:07] #info Image testing for the last 7 days -> 64 bit image tests 3, no 32 bit tests reported [19:07] #info Upgrade testing since call earlier in the week - 64 bit 13.10 to 14.04 5 reported for update manager upgrading, no tests from image [19:07] #info Upgrade testing since call earlier in the week - 64 bit lts to lts 5 reported for update manager upgrading, 3 reported for image update [19:07] #info Upgrade testing since call earlier in the week - 32 bit 13.10 to 14.04 2 reported for update manager upgrading, no tests from image [19:07] #info Upgrade testing since call earlier in the week - 32 bit lts to lts 2 reported for update manager upgrading, none reported for image update [19:07] #info Settings Manager test call out soon - includes light-locker [19:07] #info knome looked into the docs SRU and the new, fixed package (thanks bluesabre) should land in precise any day. [19:07] #info Manual testcase continues prior to calls [19:07] ali1234, news about gtk3 indicators? [19:08] #info knome, ochosi and pleia2 held a meeting and selected the winners for the community wallpapers [19:08] some changes were pushed to the indicators but still no fix to the core library problems afaik [19:08] #info knome did housecleaning on the blueprints [19:08] ali1234, ok, cheers [19:08] #info mugshot in debian NEW [19:08] #info menulibre updated [19:09] #info parole 0.6 in ubuntu repos [19:09] Noskcaj, i'd appreciate "#info Noskcaj did ..." (easier for the team reports) [19:09] ok. [19:09] it's looking a lot like we'll have to wait until feature freeze and then demand it's either fixed or rolled back [19:09] #info slickymaster started to work on migrating Mugshot documentation into docbook format [19:09] #info Noskcaj updated gthumb to 3.3 [19:09] ali1234, but new "features" are in already, just broken? [19:10] ali1234, does the current gtk3 indicator stack need to be uploaded to the archive still or is that waiting on fixes? [19:10] micahg-work: there is nothing new on our side. the problems all exist in the unity stack [19:10] knome: Yes? [19:10] knome: the new features are in some packages and not others [19:10] Unit193, please #info that you actually did something! [19:10] that mismatch is half the problem [19:11] ali1234, okay. then we should get the new features in before FF if at all possible (there's still time) [19:11] ali1234, but other than that, FF shouldn't be the hard deadline for the fixes, and i'm optimistic of landing those fixes [19:11] i don't know the status of stuff like xfce4-panel actually [19:11] I uploaded 2 SRUs, but I don't remember which ones [19:12] we can't land any fixes in libindicator3 for example, that is what is currently broken [19:12] and it is broken in unity too, still [19:12] #info Unit193 sent a message to the list about the xubuntu-core meta. [19:12] ali1234, is there a summary of the issues somewhere (or list of bugs) [19:12] #info lderan made a list of apps that can be ran simple "does it open" tests with autopilot: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6840722/ [19:13] micahg-work: see https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-network/+bug/1185565 and https://code.launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/libindicator/remove-timeout/+merge/198070 [19:13] Launchpad bug 1185565 in libindicator "Indicators should have Upstart jobs" [Medium,Confirmed] [19:13] ali1234, micahg-work: if you don't mind, i'll add an action item for you to follow up on it and actually fix the stupid issues [19:13] #action ali1234 and micahg to follow up on gtk3 indicator stack issues [19:13] ACTION: ali1234 and micahg to follow up on gtk3 indicator stack issues [19:13] #nick micahg [19:13] i already sent a MR, there's nothing more i can do until tedg gets around to fixing it [19:14] ali1234, poke tedg and ask if he has time to review or can hand off to someone else [19:14] i'm poking him once a week already [19:14] micahg-work, any possibility you could oversee how that goes? would be good to have more people on top of the issue [19:15] i've spoken to him several times about this already and it's always "yeah, i'm working on it" [19:15] he knows and understands the problems we face [19:16] well, that's great, but I don't see why an MR should go 8 weeks without a review [19:16] * micahg-work <-- pot [19:16] because it's part of a much bigger change, basically [19:17] yes, but there are ways to move these things forward, maybe it should be merged into a branch instead [19:17] there are a bunch of other issues around this too, like under xubuntu it wont actually use upstart to launch indicators, because it's hardcoded to only do that in unity [19:17] looking at the bug, not everybody agrees with what is going on [19:17] knome: right [19:17] that's a problem too [19:18] i guess we're fine to do weekly reminders for a few more weeks [19:18] if things do not progress, look at it again then [19:18] sorry about that. I'm back. [19:18] i guess another thing you could try, ali1234, is add more reviewers for the MP. [19:18] jjfrv8-work, np :) [19:19] rewriting the indicator stack for the LTS seems so wrong... [19:19] right, this is why i mentioned FF and either fix NOW or rollback [19:19] yeah [19:20] as long as gtk3 indicators work for us, i don't mind how this falls [19:20] we can always add the workaround to the environment [19:20] ali1234, micahg-work: please obey the action item and follow up on it as much as needed :) [19:20] and i'm of course also available, if you need something i can do to help. [19:21] maybe we could already switch to gtk3 indicators and use the workaround (exporting an env var) [19:22] wait, we're still on GTK2 indicators? [19:22] since FF is still somewhat far, i don't think it makes sense to push a workaround and then start using the new "real" fix [19:22] agreed [19:22] but it's always there if we need it [19:22] the workaround can be reverted easily [19:22] rather wait until the FF, and if the situation *then* looks stupid, do the workaround [19:22] ok [19:22] brainwash, it's still more work to get the workaround up than not. [19:22] micahg-work: i'm not sure what is actually in the archive, because i work mainly upstream [19:23] ok [19:23] we have to believe things are going to be fixed eventually [19:23] micahg-work, i've got the stuff in a PPA, but i'd rather wait for a real release to upload stuff [19:23] yes, Noskcaj's PPA + workaround works fine [19:23] archive is all possible 4.11 stuff + garcon git snapshot [19:24] while I generally prefer that, we need baketime for the LTS, now if it'll just be broken in the archive, there's no point in uploading [19:24] it's not as badly broken as gtk2 indicators... [19:24] well exactly, my opinion is: hold until nearer to FF [19:25] and see if things are fixed and then decide what to do, once, rather than uploading any workarounds now and having to poke around it later [19:26] Is that for both panel and indicator? [19:27] there is no panel 4.11 release yet [19:28] looks like we're done with this. people involved, please keep in touch with each other. [19:28] #topic Announcements [19:28] i have one! [19:28] at the end of the T cycle, jjfrv8-work will step from the doc lead position. [19:29] while the T cycle lasts, he will keep on leading, with the assistance of slickymaster [19:30] and if everything goes well, jjfrv8-work should be able to hand over the leader hat to slickymaster at the start of the U cycle [19:30] of course, with the approval of the team [19:30] * Unit193 approves. [19:30] * elfy approves [19:30] * pleia2 approves [19:31] we are going to have a meeting on docs issues sometime soon, where those two can update each other on the situation etc. [19:31] * Noskcaj approves the approvals [19:31] sure [19:31] (well the approval should happen later, when U cycle is starting :P) [19:31] so, anybody interested in docs... hear hear! [19:31] jjfrv8-work, slickymaster: you around to schedule? [19:31] yeaps [19:31] yes [19:32] whatever time works for you two is the best [19:32] next week before/after the community meeting? [19:33] next week I should be pretty flexible [19:33] next week is my ubuntu membership meeting [19:33] it depends on how much it will eventually take [19:33] friday though, isn't that it [19:34] on the UM meeting ins on the 6th [19:34] is^^ [19:34] aha [19:34] then i've mismarked that on my calendar ;) [19:34] what about wednesday 19utc then? [19:35] ok with me [19:35] fine with me, also [19:35] ok, that's it [19:35] #info Documentation checkup meeting on Wednesday, Feb 5 at 19UTC [19:36] aaand thanks for both jjfrv8-work and slickymaster for all the work they have done this far and will do in the future! [19:36] any other announcements? [19:36] * pleia2 adds to calendar [19:36] pleia2, ta [19:36] pleia2, you can add thu 19utc as the community meeting while you're at it [19:37] ok, moving on [19:37] #topic Agenda [19:37] #subtopic Enabling more people to push to Xubuntu branches (separate branches team, or would -team do?) [19:37] micahg-work, ping [19:37] yes? [19:37] see the subtopic [19:37] basically, we'd like to allow more people to be able to push to xubuntu branches [19:37] depends on the branches [19:38] -default-settings [19:38] mostly, i think [19:38] we can separate the branches from the uploaders team [19:38] mhm [19:39] do you think it would be ok to add them under ~xubuntu-team, or would you prefer a new team? [19:39] I'd suggest we allow -team to modify branches [19:39] but I'd prefer to limit the people who can push to people who understand the package and have proven through MRs that they know what they're doing [19:39] Would be best to use merges and have a couple review and approve. [19:39] yes [19:39] ok, so something like ~xubuntu-branches [19:39] * Unit193 likes to have at least bluesabre take a look. [19:40] so, I'd basically move the xubuntu-dev team out of the DMB control and we would create a new team for uploaders when someone needs that [19:40] xubuntu-dev is fine [19:40] ok, [19:40] when you say "when someone needs that", what are you exactly referring to? [19:40] when somebody gains packageset uploader access? [19:40] yes [19:41] That takes for ever [19:41] right, i would hope that happens sometime soon [19:41] and rather create a new team for -branches [19:41] micahg-work, Is there anything you can do to speed up my application? [19:41] It will be a month tomorrow [19:41] probably a new record [19:41] but i guess i'm fine with doing what you proposed, then create ~xubuntu-dev-upload if/when we need it [19:41] Noskcaj, it's being discussed [19:42] ok [19:42] knome, the uploader team would be managed by the DMB, so, nothing to worry about there [19:42] micahg-work, sure [19:43] micahg-work, can i get back to you on this in a week or so, to land the change [19:43] land what change? [19:43] the LP teams changes, and separating -dev from upload stuff [19:43] or would you rather just do it right away, or does it need some ack from the DMB? [19:43] oh, I just need to discuss quickly with the DMB [19:43] ok, sure [19:44] #action micahg to talk with the DMB and separate -dev from upload rights so we can allow more people to push to xubuntu branches [19:44] ACTION: micahg to talk with the DMB and separate -dev from upload rights so we can allow more people to push to xubuntu branches [19:44] #info if we need packageset uploader rights for certain people later, we shall create a new team for that purpose [19:45] nope [19:45] DMB would create that [19:45] #undo [19:45] Removing item from minutes: [19:45] #info if we need packageset uploader rights for certain people later, we shall ask DMB to create a new team for that purpose [19:46] nitpicking says me! [19:46] #subtopic Status of Bluetooth in Xubuntu; what kind of testing we want to run, which software we want to use? [19:46] micahg-work, do you have any opinion to that discussion? [19:46] ah, so, I think blueman upstream has be revived [19:47] fyi: i updated blueman last week [19:47] do we have a preference? do they all work with indicators, or do we need to consider that kind of issues? [19:48] is there something better out there, IIRC, blueman was the only one that worked well that didn't pull in half the GNOME stack [19:49] then that sounds like a good one to use [19:49] if there's no problems with using that... [19:49] if there's another alternative, I'm all ears, but with the recent resurgence of development on blueman, I think it's a good horse to be hitched to [19:49] I think blueman has a memory leak though [19:50] there are no big alternatives really [19:50] memleaks are fixable ;) [19:50] * micahg-work waves to cyphermox [19:50] * cyphermox waves back [19:51] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=700863 [19:51] Debian bug 700863 in blueman "blueman-applet eats up memory" [Important,Open] [19:51] There's two other memory leaks i know of in xubuntu, so if someone could help me with them after the meeting [19:52] 1 year with no response from reporter , that bug isn't likely to be addressed [19:52] no [19:52] can anybody from the team even confirm that bug? [19:53] It's just blueman uses 40mb of ram here and i've never used bluetooth [19:53] that doesn't sound like a memory leak as much as not loading on demand [19:53] Noskcaj: guess it would be worth running it through massif [19:54] if you said 400MB, that would sound like a memory leak [19:54] I'll leave it on during the day to see if i can reproduce it [19:54] micahg-work: it really ought to be running all the time, to be able to get you anything [19:54] unless you don't have a bluetooth device of course [19:54] cyphermox, right, I have that on one machine, bluetooth is off and it's running [19:54] ah [19:56] so i guess the gist is that we should use blueman. [19:56] great, go file bugs! [19:56] (: [19:57] #subtopic Discuss documentation translations [19:57] we should mostly do this on the docs meeting, but... [19:57] ummm - so what about testing blueman - forget it ? [19:57] right... test it! :) [19:57] hrm? [19:58] micahg-work, hrm to what? [19:58] can launchpad not translate the docs? [19:58] hrm to test.. [19:58] it can [19:58] we're doing that. [19:58] we have the .po files in the branch [19:58] #action Someone with bluetooth to write a testcase [19:58] ACTION: Someone with bluetooth to write a testcase [19:59] but we need to tweak the packaging to build the translations and display them in a sane way [19:59] Unit193 has been helping with that [19:59] there are already finish and portuguese versions of the docs [19:59] finnish ^^ [19:59] we also might need/want to set some kind of cut-off percentages, if that's not happening now [19:59] micahg-work, if you happen to know about that side as well, poke Unit193 and me.. [20:00] not too much, I could help on the packaging side [20:00] knome: It was for me, I have that set up but not sure if any sane person would like it. :P [20:00] I've gtg - thanks - cya [20:00] micahg-work, that's probably helpful as well [20:00] but ok, let's follow up on that [20:00] #topic Schedule next meeting [20:01] #info Next meeting Thursday, Feb 6, 19UTC [20:01] #endmeeting [20:01] Meeting ended Thu Jan 30 20:01:21 2014 UTC. [20:01] Minutes (wiki): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-01-30-18.59.moin.txt [20:01] Minutes (html): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-01-30-18.59.html [20:01] on the calendar :) [20:01] Noskcaj, so what about time- and users-admin? [20:01] Hah, beat me. [20:01] knome, I have no idea [20:02] elfy has issues with it, i just did ask pitti asked, since i don't know the package very well [20:02] Noskcaj, you can't leave a mess behind. [20:02] i know. I think i asked elfy to ask pitti about it [20:03] Noskcaj, why can't you ask pitti as you were the one who made the changes? [20:03] i can't see why elfy would need to pick it up [20:03] good point. My reasoning was i don't understand the issue [20:03] micahg-work: I changed the packaging locally to be 'dh7' or dh sequencing, and a couple others. [20:04] Noskcaj: Issue is, nothing is installed except 'pixmaps', try installing the package. [20:04] Look at the .install file [20:04] That's how debian has it, strangely [20:04] maybe the debian package is broken [20:04] knome: No, it's not split up. [20:05] okay, then maybe the ubuntu port is broken [20:05]