[06:09] <pitti> Good morning
[08:52] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[09:03] <darkxst> hey seb128, pitti
[09:03] <seb128> darkxst, hey, how are you?
[09:03] <darkxst> yeh good, its Friday!
[09:03] <seb128> darkxst, bug #1274740 arrived for you, if you want to review/comment
[09:03] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1274740 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Re-enable traditional titlebar on 'gnome-but-not-shell' sessions too" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1274740
[09:05] <pitti> hey darkxst
[09:05] <darkxst> seb128, these other sessions, really shouldn;t be using XDG_DESKTOP_CURRENT=GNOME
[09:05] <seb128> darkxst, read the description, he's not
[09:06] <seb128> oh
[09:06] <seb128> he is, sorry
[09:06] <seb128> I mixed both variables
[09:06] <darkxst> pretty much all the patches that check for that, are gnome-shell specific
[09:07] <darkxst> pitti, my latest idea re autopilot, would be to add g-i to libautopilot-gtk
[09:08] <seb128> hey, sorry, I'm not fully awake yet, I read the  DESKTOP_SESSION=cairo-dock part and parsed it as XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=cairo-dock
[09:08] <seb128> commented on the bug to ask what is setting it for him there
[09:08] <darkxst> then inject a few lines of JS code into gnome-shell to pass of the clutter stage object that would allow the library to pass the widget tree
[09:09] <seb128> pitti, new gvfs out, do you want to have a look or should I put it on my todo (just checking to not dup work)
[09:10] <pitti> seb128: not today, but I could on Monday
[09:10] <seb128> pitti, ok, let's see if I get to it today
[09:10] <seb128> pitti, are you in Brussel yet btw?
[09:10] <pitti> seb128: in Leuven, at a friend of mine
[09:10] <seb128> k
[09:11] <seb128> have fun at fosdem this w.e ;-)
[09:11] <pitti> seb128: we'll go to Brussels Sat morning, it's just a 20-30 min ride
[09:11] <pitti> seb128: merci !
[09:12] <pitti> darkxst: libautopilot-gtk only has a d-bus interface, so there's not a lot to add g-i for; it's just a GTK module
[09:12] <darkxst> pitti, point being gtk module won't work in gnome-shell
[09:12] <pitti> darkxst: oh, because it's not GTK?
[09:13] <darkxst> pitti, right, but we already determined that right?
[09:13] <darkxst> the GTK widgets is uses are embedded within clutter
[09:13] <pitti> darkxst: I thought it was using some clutter widgets with embedded GTK stuff; I didn't know it was using clutter entirely
[09:13] <darkxst> rather than using clutter-gtk
[09:13] <pitti> well, so it *does* use GTK?
[09:13] <pitti> darkxst: perhaps it's enough to make libautopilot-gtk's detection of top-level windows more clever, to also find these sub-trees?
[09:14] <darkxst> pitti, further down the widget tree
[09:15] <darkxst> its not possible to get at these from gtk module
[09:15] <darkxst> (to get at the main clutter widget tree)
[09:15] <pitti> well, we don't want to
[09:16] <pitti> we just want the GTK subtrees
[09:16] <darkxst> pitti, no, shell widgets are not GTK
[09:16] <darkxst> only things like notification icons
[09:16] <pitti> well, I'm confused
[09:16] <darkxst> and perhaps windows
[09:16] <pitti> I thought you said shell are clutter widgets which at some point embed GTK widgets
[09:16] <pitti> and we want to get those
[09:17] <darkxst> pitti, we can get those but they are all random
[09:17] <darkxst> the main shell ui, is not GTK
[09:18] <pitti> darkxst: btw, if gnome-shell supports a11y, it might be possible to use dogtail/strongwind
[09:19] <darkxst> no idea what they are, however gnome-shell has very good a11y support I believe (well out of my area though)
[09:19] <darkxst> pitti, I have to pop out, be back in a bit
[09:40] <Laney> greetings from the train
[09:41] <seb128> Laney, hey, happy friday!
[09:41] <Laney> howdy!
[09:41] <seb128> do you have a good seat? ;-)
[09:41] <Laney> not sure such a thing exists on this train
[09:42] <Laney> it's a 30 minute local ride
[09:42] <seb128> I was going to say, I've been once in an eurostar and seats were a bit tight and not so nice
[09:42] <seb128> oh
[09:42] <Laney> oh no, this isn't eurostar
[09:42] <Laney> i'm on the way to london
[09:42] <seb128> not in the real train yet ;-)
[09:42] <seb128> gotcha
[09:42] <Laney> going to call at bluefin i think
[09:42] <Laney> leave my big bag there
[09:42] <seb128> you said you would do a stop at the office?
[09:42] <seb128> when is your train to Brussels?
[09:42] <Laney> say hi to the hard-core
[09:42] <Laney> about 1530
[09:43] <seb128> same one as didrocks?
[09:43] <Laney> nod
[09:43] <seb128> cool
[09:44] <Laney> yeah, we can get lost together :P
[09:45] <seb128> I'm sure you guys can find your way ;-)
[09:45] <seb128> shrug, creating an emulator instance is creating quite some IOs, my machine is becoming sloooow
[10:19] <cking> jodh, what machine do you have, and what is the CPU name (from /proc/cpuinfo) ?
[10:20] <jodh> cking: T410 - cat /proc/cpuinfo |pb => http://paste.ubuntu.com/6848656/
[10:20] <cking> ta
[10:32] <jodh> X60h4SM3
[10:46] <Laney> darkxst: After letting you share with gnome-shell I come out with http://paste.ubuntu.com/6848763/
[10:46] <Laney> is that right-ish?
[10:47] <Laney> or if not, please give me an example and I'll see why it doesn't get included
[10:56] <didrocks> Laney: 1504 for me
[10:57] <Laney>    1. Departure: LONDON ST-PANCRAS on FR 31/01/2014 at 15:04
[10:57] <Laney> yup
[10:58] <didrocks> ok, same one then ;)
[10:59] <Laney> Reserved seats: Coach: 017 NON-SMOKING Seat: 033
[11:00] <didrocks> Coach 4, Seat 028
[11:00] <Laney> nod
[11:00] <didrocks> NON SMOKING? It it still possible to smoke on eurostar?
[11:00] <didrocks> is*
[11:00] <Laney> haha, doubt it
[11:07] <didrocks> legacy printing, need cleaning! :)
[12:03] <tjaalton> didrocks: hey, I tried to add sssd to the supported seed earlier but it didn't work.. germinate is just weird :)
[12:03] <tjaalton> this was maybe 2mo ago
[12:06] <didrocks> tjaalton: what didn't work, rebuilding the meta package?
[12:08] <tjaalton> didrocks: I added the package there but the germinate output didn't change
[12:09] <didrocks> tjaalton: do you have your branch?
[12:09] <tjaalton> yes
[12:09] <didrocks>  sssd | 1.11.3-1         | trusty/universe          | source, amd64, arm64, armhf, i386, powerpc, ppc64el
[12:10] <tjaalton> actually I pulled fresh copies now, purged the old
[12:11] <tjaalton> one issue is guessing where to put it
[12:11] <didrocks> tjaalton: just do the seed change and commit the branch
[12:19] <tjaalton> hum, why can't I see ding-libs anywhere although it got promoted?
[12:19] <tjaalton> grepping through the bzr repo I mean
[12:32]  * Laney Has Arrived
[12:44] <seb128> Laney, where? at The Office?
[12:44] <Laney> yup
[12:44] <seb128> nice
[12:44] <seb128> just on time for lunch
[12:44] <seb128> :p
[12:44] <Laney> ;-)
[12:45] <Laney> I think didrocks needs a hug
[12:46] <seb128> yeah, give him an extra one from me!
[12:46] <seb128> sil2100, can I convince you to give a slot for my trivial u-s-s request on l39? ;-)
[12:47]  * didrocks wonders if we shouldn't have silo silots that you pay for
[12:47] <didrocks> thta will show how much you value your upload :p
[12:49] <sil2100> seb128: ooook, so Didier allowed me to land things that are safe and non-super-impacting
[12:49] <ogra_> didrocks, dont make my april fools joke from last year reality please :P
[12:49] <seb128> sil2100, exactly u-s-s, it adds some autopilot tests and update the translation template, no actual code change
[12:49] <didrocks> ogra_: ahah, indeed! wonders if it would more effective with beers in place
[12:49] <didrocks> instead*
[12:49] <sil2100> seb128: right, that's why I'm assigning ;)
[12:49] <seb128> didrocks, I'm ready to pay 1 beer for that silo
[12:49] <seb128> sil2100, thanks ;-)
[12:50] <didrocks> \o/
[12:50]  * didrocks registers
[12:50] <didrocks> we should have an application for that
[12:50] <didrocks> with beer pictures
[12:50] <seb128> ogra_, I'm disappointed that the internet is not quoting your "let's do better that those nautilus suckers"
[12:50] <seb128> ogra_, would be a nice friday trolling
[12:50] <ogra_> yeah
[12:50] <seb128> didrocks, you have a project for the train ;-)
[12:50] <didrocks> seb128: in the train for CItrain
[12:50] <didrocks> to train people
[12:50] <ogra_> seb128, in fact there are no reactions at all ..
[12:51] <seb128> ;-)
[12:51] <Laney> everyone knows you by now :P
[12:52] <ogra_> i guess i need to be more leannartish in the future to get any attention
[12:52] <seb128> yeah
[12:53] <seb128> ogra_, just for the record I plan to reply something, I just need to make my mind of what we need from a filemanager in a converged world
[12:54] <seb128> ogra_, I'm unsure if "converged" is for normal "home users" or for corporates ones
[12:54] <ogra_> seb128, well, the phone tablet sides will exist already ...
[12:55] <seb128> e.g I wouldn't expect the same feature set from my tablet/after hours computer than the ones I need during "office hours"
[12:55] <ogra_> i assume it just needs to grow a desktop mode
[12:55] <mlankhorst> Laney: ping :P
[12:55] <seb128> well, the question is "does desktop mean stuff like handling of remote servers, nfs, etc"
[12:55] <mlankhorst> nm
[12:55] <ogra_> well, it does today
[12:55] <mlankhorst> just the act of pinging makes me find the information i need
[12:56] <seb128> ogra_, right, but do we need that much features for the convergence to happen? or can we do something which is good enough for 90% and tell the other ones to install e.g nemo
[12:56] <seb128> or nautilus
[12:57] <ogra_> seb128, i would say we shouldnt regress in features ... at least plan them
[12:58] <ogra_> (i dont expect them all to be there in the first iteration anyway)
[12:58] <seb128> ogra_, right, we are not likely to get "there" by next cycle
[12:58] <ogra_> anyway, lets keep that on the ML
[12:59] <seb128> what ml was it again?
[12:59] <seb128> I can't find the email now :p
[12:59] <ogra_> yours !
[12:59] <seb128> lol
[12:59] <ogra_> ubuntu-desktop :)
[12:59] <seb128> I was looking on the phone one
[12:59] <seb128> danke
[12:59] <ogra_> :)
[13:32] <ara> Hello! Due to some broken packages (trusty) in several PPAs (ubuntu-sdk-team, qt5-proper) my system is in an unstable state
[13:32] <ara> unity starts, but the launcher, the dash and indicators are not shown
[13:32] <ara> any ideas of potential missing packages?
[13:32] <seb128> ara, hey
[13:33] <seb128> ara, is it working better in a guest session?
[13:33] <ara> seb128, good point, let me try and I will get back
[13:36] <darkxst> Laney, sorry I'm out for the weekend now, but at a quick glance seems reasonable in combination with desktop-extras
[13:37] <ara> seb128, yes, better in guest session
[13:37] <seb128> ara, better but still not good?
[13:38] <ara> seb128, no, better and good :)
[13:38] <ara> seb128, at least it looks good
[13:38] <seb128> ara, run that command for your user "gsettings reset org.compiz.core:/org/compiz/profiles/unity/plugins/core/ active-plugins"
[13:39] <ara> seb128, and restart session?
[13:39] <ara> seb128, ah, no, it worked! thanks!
[13:39] <seb128> ara, shouldn't be needed
[13:39] <seb128> yw!
[13:39] <ara> seb128, you are awesome!
[13:39] <ara> thanks a lot
[13:39] <seb128> ;-)
[13:40] <seb128> yw!
[13:43] <darkxst> Laney, there may be some things that overlap with -desktop that would make sense to have (gnome-themes-standard is one), but will get back to on monday re that
[13:44] <darkxst> given gnome-themes-standard provides our default theme and all
[16:42] <ochosi> tedg: ping
[16:43] <tedg> Howdy ochosi
[16:44] <ochosi> tedg: hey there!
[16:44] <ochosi> i quickly wanted to investigate what the plan is with respect to indicators and the upstart-job transition
[16:45] <ochosi> we recently implemented this change in lightdm-gtk-greeter and then realized, that there are still some problems/roadblocks ahead
[16:46] <ochosi> we're planning a new stable release (1.8) for 14.04, so it'd be great to know what version to ship
[16:53] <ochosi> tedg: ^
[16:55] <tedg> ochosi, So basically we're switching them from being on-demand to being session-services.
[16:55] <tedg> ochosi, Do you have a session manager?
[16:55] <ochosi> tedg: you mean in the greeter?
[16:56] <ochosi> tedg: if so, we usually don't
[16:56] <ochosi> this is how we handle them now: https://code.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter/indicators
[16:57] <tedg> ochosi, That should work, the code in START_INDICATOR_SERVICES
[16:58] <ochosi> tedg: right, i just noticed that it doesn't work with all indicators yet
[16:58] <ochosi> and there's this blueprint saying that some are still WIP
[16:58] <tedg> ochosi, Which one doesn't it?
[16:58] <ochosi> indicator-application
[16:58] <ochosi> (for nm-applet)
[16:58] <tedg> Hmm, okay.
[16:58]  * tedg thought we fixed it.
[16:58] <tedg> I'll make sure that works.
[16:59] <tedg> It's a bug.
[16:59] <tedg> BTW, it won't start nm-applet though.
[16:59] <ochosi> hmkay
[17:00] <ochosi> i was also looking at this https://bugs.launchpad.net/libindicator/+bug/1185565
[17:00] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1185565 in libindicator "Indicators should have Upstart jobs" [Medium,Confirmed]
[17:00] <ochosi> application indicators seemingly hasn't had a release yet?
[17:04] <ochosi> tedg: also, in addition to that ^ this also made me wonder about the roadmap: https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/ubiquity/upstart-indicators/+merge/192941
[17:04] <tedg> ochosi, Yeah, I have a TODO item to make ubquity use the autostart files there.
[17:05] <tedg> ochosi, I need to run right now, but I'll look into it more when I get back.
[17:05] <ochosi> tedg: ok, ttyl then!
[17:08] <xnox> ochosi: tedg: ubiquity doesn't need autostart/upstart files at all, i'm looking into fixing it otherwise.
[17:08] <ochosi> xnox: so that comment about re-introducing dbus activation, is there a plan to switch back to that?
[17:09] <ochosi> sorry to ask so bluntly, but i'm a bit confused here
[17:21] <xnox> ochosi: no dbus activation, nor upstart jobs, nor autostart files are needed for ubiquity.
[17:21] <xnox> ochosi: i've discussed it with tedg in length.
[17:21] <xnox> ochosi: and i'm assigned to implement it.
[17:26] <seb128> xnox, what are you going to use instead?
[17:27] <xnox> seb128: same thing the rest of ubiquity-dm uses to launch & track all other processes it launches.
[17:27] <seb128> xnox, k
[17:27] <xnox> "ubiquity process lifecycle management"
[17:29] <seb128> it's weird that ubiquity has its own management rather than using upstart
[17:30] <xnox> seb128: also ubiquity predates upstart.
[17:30] <xnox> seb128: there are no ubiquity maintainers, and we are investing as minimal effort as needed to keep it functioning.
[17:30] <seb128> right, but it would be easy to make indicators job upstart managed there
[17:31] <xnox> seb128: only things that are priority are OEM bugs + hardware enablement.
[17:31] <seb128> anyway, I didn't want to start an argument, you are the one doing the work, you get to pick what seems best to you ;-)
[17:31] <seb128> yeah
[17:31] <xnox> seb128: =) meh =) yeah.
[17:31] <seb128> I just though that using upstart jobs would be easiest option
[17:31] <seb128> tell you how little I know about those things :p
[17:38] <ochosi> (sry, internet went out)
[17:39] <ochosi> seb128, xnox: so in general, all indicators *will* be ported to upstart jobs for 14.04, right?
[17:39] <ochosi> i just mistook that comment from the ubiquity-MR for plans to revert the switch to upstart and go back to dbus in general
[17:39] <xnox> ochosi: i have no idea, and none of my concern.
[17:39] <xnox> ochosi: other discussions, superseeded that comments of mine.
[17:40] <seb128> ochosi, that's a question for ted
[17:40] <ochosi> xnox: ok
[17:40] <xnox> ochosi: i have no objections in indicators moving to everything =)
[17:40] <ochosi> hmm, well i just would love to have working indicators in time for 14.04
[17:40] <ogra_> move them to the laft :P
[17:40] <ogra_> left
[17:41] <ochosi> and with feature-freeze approaching it's a bit annoying not to know what path is chosen