[12:24] <tony-smlr> SMLR Live is Video http://www.youtube.com/embed/uAs7qm7M81A  - Audio http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
[12:25] <tony-smlr> we are also chatting on #smlr
[12:50] <rick_h_> howdy
[15:25] <cmaloney> morning
[16:25] <gamerchick02> morning to all the snowbound peeps in here.
[20:58] <derekv> what the heck should I put for groupId in an new opensource library
[21:01] <derekv> reminds me i need a company name
[21:01] <derekv> for software
[21:02] <derekv> or I could recycle my DBA 0panic.com
[21:04] <jrwren> what is a groupId?
[21:06] <derekv> its metainfo for maven, by convention its a domain name you control (reversed) and the same as a root package name for the project
[21:08] <derekv> http://code.google.com/p/guava-libraries/source/browse/pom.xml#12
[21:25] <jrwren> looks same as your package prefix
[21:29] <derekv> yes
[21:29] <derekv> damn android studio
[21:37] <cmaloney> I've really disliked that practice in Java
[21:38] <cmaloney> It makes sense for big companies but makes no sense for anyone else
[21:38] <cmaloney> Though I really really want to register something lewd so I can release Java packages under that name
[21:39] <cmaloney> like com.javafucksgoatsforbreakfast.package."
[21:39]  * cmaloney checks to see if that's registered.
[21:39] <cmaloney> Nope, still available.
[23:28] <greg-g> paultag, of ubuntu/debian fam, has anized.org registered for this reason (org.anized.whatever)
[23:29] <derekv> assholes
[23:29] <derekv> 0panic.com is a valid domain name
[23:29] <derekv> com.0panic is not a valid java package
[23:29] <greg-g> haha
[23:29] <greg-g> sorry
[23:29] <greg-g> I feel for ya
[23:36] <derekv> supposed i'll use com.controlallrobots
[23:41] <derekv> everything about java is retarded
[23:42] <cmaloney> yes
[23:43] <cmaloney> This is the same company that promoted /opt
[23:43] <derekv> I wouldn't be using it if I could just settle on one thing I'm into long enough to persue it as a career
[23:47] <derekv> i have some pretty venomous thoughts about java sometimes... like how its an avenue for people whith no ability or interest to still enjoy careers as software developers
[23:48] <greg-g> I doubt language makes much of a difference there
[23:48] <cmaloney> yeah, I don't blame Java for that.
[23:48] <derekv> maybe not
[23:48] <cmaloney> I blame schools for choosing it as the anti-C++
[23:49] <derekv> cmaloney: i think that's closer to what I'm trying to say
[23:50] <cmaloney> and to be fair there were some neat things that Java promosed
[23:50] <cmaloney> promised even
[23:50] <greg-g> just stick with LISP
[23:50] <cmaloney> and had Sun not been trying hard to keep Java from being taken over by Microsoft we might have had somet of them come to fruition
[23:53] <derekv> ok i'm probably going to come off as an asshole here but, it has to happen sometimes.  on the one hand, you have things that are tough like getting good with pointers
[23:53] <cmaloney> yep
[23:53] <derekv> you have higher level stuff like closures or functional programming
[23:53] <derekv> if neither one of those things is your schtick ... fine
[23:54] <derekv> there's still ways to be a programmer
[23:54] <cmaloney> I think the big problem was C++ was a big enough hot mess that anything looked better by comparison
[23:54] <derekv> but I don't see the point for schools to dumb things down for poeple who want to call themselves computer scientists
[23:54] <greg-g> they don't want to
[23:54] <greg-g> that's the thing
[23:55] <greg-g> they want a degree to get a job
[23:55] <derekv> if your getting a degree in computer science, well, learn to use pointers, learn to understand lisp, etc
[23:55] <greg-g> only the ones that go on to grad school want to be called computer scientists
[23:55] <derekv> that's pretty easy to get too
[23:55] <derekv> just time consuming
[23:56] <derekv> maybe a PHD is different, I don't know
[23:56] <waf> do you consider pointers to be part of computer science?
[23:56] <greg-g> all education is easy if typical college stuff is easy for you
[23:56] <waf> i'd say computer science is more about algorithms
[23:56]  * greg-g nods
[23:56] <waf> so java would work fine
[23:56] <derekv> waf: yes but I understand what your saying
[23:56] <waf> the language doesn't really matter
[23:57] <derekv> waf: because pointers has to do with the reality of how machines actually work
[23:57] <waf> now, i don't like java either, but it made sense for colleges to choose it at the time
[23:57] <waf> so i think it makes sense to have maybe one or two classes where you use C
[23:57] <waf> which most colleges have (citation needed)
[23:57] <derekv> waf: if you subtract the physical machine totally and just focus on algorithms your actually just in a branch of Math now
[23:58] <cmaloney> waf: I think that's part of the problem.
[23:58] <cmaloney> derekv: Um, not really
[23:58] <waf> derekv: right, which is why pretty much every college still has at least one C or C++ class
[23:58] <cmaloney> If the machine is a VM then you learn the ins and outs of the VM.
[23:58] <greg-g> let's see, debate/talk CS vs Math or go watch sportsball
[23:59] <waf> well, out of my sample size of 3, all 3 had c/c++ mandatory classes
[23:59] <cmaloney> greg-g: sportsball is overrated.
[23:59] <waf> i have it on in the background. that counts right?
[23:59] <greg-g> I don't have a tv, and all other options are apparently piracy on the high seas