=== knome is now known as slickymaster
=== slickymaster is now known as knome
xnoxcjwatson: Riddell: i really wish all flavours used hwe kernels, can we make that a hard requirement for the 14.04 point releases.01:35
xnoxit's either hwe kernels, or don't do point release.01:35
stgraberxnox: well, for Edubuntu I'd have very strongly objected to such a policy in 12.04 as the original 3.2 kernel was the only way we could support non-pae machines at all (which still make up a very high percentage of thin clients)01:40
stgraberthough for 14.04, I don't care nearly as much as non-pae is entirely gone and those users will stay on 12.04 until their hardware dies01:41
knomehmm, is that so?01:42
xnoxcjwatson: Riddell: stgraber: So i've properly trianged bug 127673901:52
ubot2`Launchpad bug 1276739 in partman-crypto (Ubuntu) "partman-crypto uses xts by default, yet xts.ko kernel module is not present in 3.2 (original-point-zero stack) crypto-modules-udeb" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/127673901:52
xnoxcjwatson: please advise how to proceed.01:52
xnoxor anyone else on release / 12.04.4 driving team.01:53
infinityxnox: We're definitely not going to fix the kernel udeb before release.  Another workaround (or release note) might be appropriate.01:54
xnoxgetting the crypto-modules-udeb fixed seems like the best option in the long run, and probably release noting it seems appropriate for the affected flavours that use 3.2 stack and publish alternate/d-i images.01:55
Riddellxnox: cjwatson: I'm thinking we just don't release alternate images for kubuntu in 12.04.409:21
Riddellhmm will this affect any desktop image install options?09:21
highvoltagestgraber: I also tested the images again, they work great, marked as ready too.10:03
highvoltageis there an existing script/webpage/something that shows which packages have been updated since the last point release?10:04
=== doko_ is now known as doko
cjwatsonRiddell: desktop won't be affected - full-disk encryption wasn't offered there in 12.0410:20
cjwatsonhighvoltage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/ChangeSummary/12.04.410:20
cjwatson(linked from the master precise release notes page)10:21
cjwatsonRiddell,xnox: we could release the affected images but note that full-disk encryption won't work; IMO that isn't too unreasonable10:22
michagogo|cloudThere aren't prerelease images of point releases, are there? I need to install a precise VM and I'd rather not have to download all the updates on the VM10:26
cjwatsonthere are daily builds (necessarily)10:26
cjwatsonhunt around on cdimage for directories with "precise" in the path10:27
xnoxRiddell: desktop is not affected, as normal kernel modules are present from a deb. Also in precise, desktop installer didn't support full disk encryption.10:28
xnoxcjwatson: Riddell: yeah, i'm up to release note that "automatic full-disk encryption recipe" does not work on kubuntu, (other flavors that use 3.2, Lubuntu?!)10:30
cjwatsonxnox: the only 3.2-based alternates are Kubuntu and Xubuntu10:32
* knome pops up10:33
cjwatsonI'm rather surprised that somebody got the encryption test to pass on the Xubuntu alternates10:34
cjwatsonAm I missing something?10:34
knomecjwatson, who was it?10:34
cjwatsonknome: lderan10:35
knomeshould be valid10:35
* xnox quickly downloads and runs the xubuntu test.10:35
cjwatsonIt might be worth quickly rerunning that to check whether you see ... that :-)10:35
knome(he's trusted, and he's not the one who had accidentally marked a test "passed" while it failed)10:36
michagogo|cloudcjwatson: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/precise/dvd/current/precise-dvd-amd64.iso?10:40
xnoxthanks apw for fixing xts.ko for precise proper =)10:40
knomecjwatson, xnox: we're looking if we can get ahold of lderan soon, and will get back to you if that happens10:41
apwxnox, could we not revert the partman-crypto change just long enough to rebuild those two images, so they at least work ?10:42
apwhow feasable is this preimaging attack anyway ?10:42
apwxnox, yeah did that so if there is a .5 it won't have the problem again10:43
apwas we will have forgotten by then10:44
xnoxapw: the attack is step by step intructions in blog post / script kiddie style.10:44
elfycjwatson knome - I'll run it now10:44
xnoxapw: well, netboot installer et.al. would get fixed whenever the updated udeb lands.10:44
apw(if d-i is also respun right?)10:45
xnoxcjwatson: elfy: yeah xubuntu fails as well same as kubuntu.10:45
xnoxapw: manual partitioning works, and it's very sad that it appears that default ivalgorithm is not preseedable for the "wipe all, use encrypted lvm" option =(10:46
elfyxnox: no point in me doing it then10:46
knomerelease noting that for xubuntu is fine for me10:46
xnoxapw: if it was preseedable, we'd just stick an option for the /cdrom/preseed for affected images and just respin those.10:47
knomeit's unfortunate, but as long as there is an option/way past it...10:47
apwxnox, that is unfortuanate10:49
xnoxAdded release note: "Performing automatic encrypted LVM installation using Kubuntu and Xubuntu 12.04.4 alternate installer images results in a failure to configure encrypted volumes. Please either use manual partitioning to create encrypted volumes with any non-default "IV algorithm" setting or use 12.04.3 media to complete the installation. (1276739)"11:11
elfyxnox: thanks11:14
cjwatsonYeah, I did start by thinking that maybe we should change partman-crypto to only use the new ivalg if the relevant kernel modules are available, but I'm not comfortable with that kind of fail-insecure approach.11:20
cjwatsonxnox: The release note should be explicit that the 12.04.3 approach is insecure, and link to an explanation11:20
cjwatson(Or indeed that any of the workarounds are insecure, I guess :-/ )11:21
xnoxcjwatson: yeah, i was thinking that something like that needs to be added, but i couldn't come up with a non-confusing way of saying it.11:21
xnoxcjwatson: we could ask users to setup xts using live-cd and then reboot into d-i, activate the volume and complete the installation.11:23
xnoxbut that's a stretch.11:23
Riddellwhere are the release notes?11:23
xnoxRiddell: follow the rabbit holes from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes11:24
xnoxi had to modify one page for the release note to appear under xubuntu & kubuntu.11:24
Riddellxnox: thanks for adding it11:27
cjwatsonanyone able to smoke-test the Ubuntu and Ubuntu Studio DVDs?12:04
cjwatsonUbuntu alternate/desktop/server have been smoke-tested by way of ci.ubuntu.com12:04
cjwatsonoh, and Mythbuntu could do with a smoke-test too12:05
cjwatson(wish I was in the office today)12:05
zequencecjwatson: I'll have a look at Ubuntu Studio12:07
cjwatsonyay, thanks12:07
zequencecjwatson: 12.04, right?12:09
zequencecjwatson: Where is the iso?12:10
zequenceah, foudn it12:11
elfyzequence: you want me to do one of them ? I'd do them in a vm12:13
xnoxcjwatson: what's left? i can do any with my bandwidth.12:13
cjwatsonxnox: Ubuntu DVD would be helpful12:14
xnoxcjwatson: ack, taking.12:14
zequenceelfy: If you have time, sure. I'm downloading both ISOs right now. I'm doing amd64 first12:14
elfyseems xnox is :)12:14
knomeelfy, he took ubuntu, not studio12:15
knomeelfy, take studio i38612:15
elfyoh - not reading properly ...12:15
elfyzequence knome yep - I'll do 32bit12:16
zequenceelfy: Thanks :)12:16
Riddellgosh, it gets harder to motivate people to test LTS releases the older they are12:28
mlankhorstand it's easy! :-D12:30
mlankhorstapt-get install xserver-xorg-lts-XXXXXX, done12:30
cjwatsonah, I see that today is the "fix release tools which have bitrotten since the last time" day12:31
* xnox ponders if it's normal for ubuntu-dvd to install both 3.2 and hwe-lts kernel into target.... let's see what it will reboot into =)12:32
cjwatson... I forget12:33
* xnox started the endless wait of removing all langpacks.12:38
cjwatsonyeah :-/12:38
cjwatsonthat's damned if you do, damned if you don't12:38
cjwatsonLooks like the only set of images with no attention at all so far is Mythbuntu12:45
RiddellI can look at them shortly, about to finish kubuntu12:46
* xnox is very glad we dropped dvd images, they are quite pointless for ubuntu-desktop product.12:51
Riddell"WARNING: This image is OVERSIZED. This should never happen during milestone testing." mythbuntu do you care?13:06
* xnox The honeybadger.... oh wait =)13:08
Riddellsuperm1_: ↑13:11
cjwatsonI have decided in general that it's not feasible to care about oversizedness for this point release13:17
cjwatsonmythbuntu was oversized for 12.04.3 as well13:19
cjwatsonit's a bit more so now, but ... whatever13:19
Riddellfair enough13:19
Riddellany pointers on how to test mythbuntu? the iso site and #mythbuntu are silent. I seem to be installing a frontend/backend combo13:20
cjwatsonthat I don't know13:20
zequenceRan out of disk space. Think I can't run virtual installs from encrypted drives, so I have to get home and redo13:26
Riddellbuy a bigger disk :)13:33
zequenceRiddell: All I had was 8GB of usb stick space13:37
zequenceGoing home now, anyway. Will retry within an hour13:38
xnoxcjwatson: ubuntu dvd's are good to go.13:46
xnoxcjwatson: found a hallarious localisation bug however =) i don't envy localised command line users13:47
ubot2`Launchpad bug 1277079 in bash (Ubuntu Precise) "ложь: command not found" [Undecided,New]13:47
cjwatsonow :)13:48
cjwatsonI keep meaning to switch my locale to Irish to help me learn it, but it needs a week when I can cope with being confused about how to use my computer13:49
xnoxcjwatson: yeah, jodh changed his to french i think, to help him learn =)13:49
* xnox ponders about welsh, or scots gaellic.13:50
cjwatsonI can sort of read bits of Scots Gaelic by pretending they're roughly like Irish and with the aid of a dictionary13:50
cjwatsoncan't even come close to writing it though :)13:51
cjwatsonI've had a few very strange twitter conversations in bilingual Irish/Scottish Gaelic13:51
xnoxhm, i wonder how it's like with a screen reader =)13:52
=== Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha
Riddellwelsh hard for me to use, no "k" in welsh, lots of gnome users there as a result13:54
cjwatsonha :-)13:54
cjwatsonnot that Scottish Gaelic has a k either AFAICS13:55
cjwatsonso you have to be CDE13:55
Riddelljings and crivvens13:56
Riddellmythbuntu seems to work, ticked the ready box13:57
Riddellubuntu alternates, server and ubuntu studio seem a bit lacking13:58
cjwatsonfirst two I'm not too worried about as ci.ubuntu.com has smoketested them13:58
* Riddell goes with ubuntu studio amd64 then13:59
elfyI thought zequence was doing that one Riddell13:59
elfyI did the 32bit for him - apart from the persistence bit of live13:59
Riddellok so should be all covered14:01
RiddellI'll download one anyway just incase14:01
cjwatsonmuch appreciated14:02
cjwatsonI have some recentish alternate images lying around, so I'll see if I can do a bit of smoking there14:02
=== Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha
knomecjwatson, xnox: wanted to talk to lderan about the test results?14:20
knomehe's here now.14:20
xnoxknome: not really, the bug report is valid with an established cause and identified scope of affected images.14:21
knomewasn't he able to do something that isn't possible?14:21
knomeor did i misunderstood..14:21
lderanwhich alternative test is this about?14:22
knomelderan, full disk encryption14:22
xnoxknome: it doesn't matter. The bug is now resolved, and a proper kernel packaging fix is in progress to be done. It will not make .4 release and we can wish for bugs to surface earlier, but such is life =)14:23
lderanit booted up fine when i selected that option :S14:23
xnoxknome: the kernel freeze was one month ago for .414:24
knomexnox, ah, right.14:24
knomemhm ;)14:24
knomethus is life.14:24
xnoxlderan: we found a bug, very late in testing. your testing might have surfaced it earlier, but it wouldn't have made a difference by now =) so don't worry about it.14:25
lderanxnox, okay dokey :)14:25
zequenceRiddell: I'm home, and downloading now14:43
elfyzequence: I did the 32 bit - but I couldn't do the persistence bit of the livecd testcase here14:44
zequenceelfy: np. I'll do that too14:44
elfyI left that test as in progress, the install one I passed14:45
zequencehmmm, download time is really long though14:46
elfyzequence: I can get the install done14:46
elfyjust not the live bit14:46
zequenceI was totally oblivious to the release date for 12.04.4, so sorry for missing that. I've put up a calendar for Ubuntu Studio for that sort of thing, but forgot to add this14:47
elfyzequence: I'm installing it now14:50
stgraberhighvoltage: thanks15:05
elfyzequence: 64bit install is done - as is the bit of the livecd I can do :)15:05
stgraberhighvoltage: did you already do the paperwork (release announcement on the website) and gave the URL to cjwatson?15:05
cjwatsonoh yeah I need to start collecting announcements ...15:05
cjwatsonand for that matter drafting the main one15:05
cjwatsonunleash the copy and paste, Batman15:06
cjwatsonOK, that was easy to draft.  Yep, send me your flavour announcement URLs folks15:10
cjwatsonI think I'll get some more coffee and then start in on the publication15:10
zequencecjwatson: I see you went over our release notes. Thanks. Was not much for me to do there15:14
cjwatsonI think only in a fairly basic way15:16
zequenceYeah, I think those release notes should be a bit thinner on our part :). Think I'll trim it a bit15:20
Riddellcjwatson: kubuntu.org/news/kubuntu-12.04.415:27
zequencecjwatson: Ubuntu Studio link http://ubuntustudio.org/2014/02/ubuntu-studio-12-04-4-precise-pangolin-point-release/15:27
stgrabercjwatson: http://www.edubuntu.org/news/12.04.4-release15:28
stgraberhighvoltage: I quickly copy/pasted + sed that one ^ feel free to improve :)15:28
knomexubuntu will be at http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-12-04-4-released/15:28
cjwatsonthanks all15:28
Riddellis that persitence use case in ubuntu studio unique? or just they're the ones who insist on it during live cd testing?15:30
zequenceRiddell: I hardly think so15:31
zequenceAlso, we haven't done any changes ourselves - but we do have our own kernel (which is still 3.2)15:32
xnoxRiddell: livecd, persistence test is mentioned for every live cd.15:32
xnoxRiddell: i don't think we actually do execute persistence for each one of them.15:32
xnoxRiddell: maybe that should be scripted and tested with qemu.15:33
* xnox ponders if i should ask "was ubiquity tested with new gtk upload?! ^" =)))) 15:39
seb128xnox, it was not, but the change is in the print dialog .so15:40
xnoxprinting, doesn't matter =)15:40
Riddellwell I can't get persistence to work in ubuntu studio15:44
* xnox ponders if persistence then works at all on any of these.15:46
didrocksare amr64 really busy?15:47
didrocksI wonder if we can get https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mediascanner2/0.99+14.04.20140205-0ubuntu1/+build/5561127 in the next image (that blocks mediascanner2)15:47
didrockse-d-s, gtk2 and pykde15:47
didrocksseb128: that's your fault! :)15:48
cjwatsonarm64> yes, three builders isn't quite enough to keep up all the time15:48
cjwatsonI've scored that build up15:48
seb128didrocks, roooh15:50
didrockscjwatson: thanks!15:51
didrocksI still blame seb128 :)15:51
zequenceRiddell: elfy Thanks for the help with testing. Marking US images ready16:07
Riddellyay, 12.04.4 is good to go?16:10
cjwatsonI think so, I've started publishing16:10
michagogo|cloudcjwatson: does that mean release in 3 hours?16:12
elfycjwatson: you want our's published now?16:12
cjwatsonmichagogo|cloud: please don't ask me that kind of question right now16:12
cjwatsonelfy: your what?16:12
elfy1204 release notes16:13
cjwatsonyou mean announcement?16:13
michagogo|cloudOkay, sorry. (It's just that that's one of the steps mentioned on the point release process)16:13
elfyyes - sorry - juggling here :)16:13
cjwatsonelfy: hold off a bit please, I'll let you know16:13
cjwatsonmichagogo|cloud: that's a minimum of three hours - I actually did those bits yesterday16:13
michagogo|cloudAh, okay. Sorry.16:14
xnoxmichagogo|cloud: we release... when we release. there never are any set timing nor count-downs.16:14
cjwatsondamnit checksum-directory is being ridiculously slow for some reason16:14
michagogo|cloudxnox: in that case, I guess I misread the pr process page16:15
cjwatsonthe process pages are mainly checklists for the people doing the work, so that we don't forget anything16:15
cjwatsonthey're not really intended for people trying to derive times16:15
cjwatsonand they're pretty mutable as dictated by need16:15
michagogo|cloudFair enough.16:17
cjwatsonhm, for some reason a bunch of ctimes on large files were updated yesterday, hence the rechecksumming16:28
cjwatsonprobably faster to just suck it up now and investigate later ...16:28
* michagogo|cloud twists one of those disposable confetti air cannons16:33
* cjwatson finally finishes the incredibly tedious archiving step and moves on to actually publishing stuff17:04
highvoltagestgraber: thanks, I just got home from jogging and was about to do the copy/paste/sed as well17:10
highvoltagestgraber: so .4 has the same ltsp version as .3?17:10
stgraberhighvoltage: except for a 2 lines patch to support the new kernels, yes17:13
highvoltagestgraber: cool17:16
cjwatsonwaiting for cdimage.u.c and mirrors to catch up a bit17:31
cjwatsonwebsite should be live in ~10min17:32
cjwatson(I'm not worrying too much about it being in exact sync, in favour of not making the web team stay late)17:32
UbuntuTorrenterHmm, the 12.04.4 torrents aren't authorized on your tracker17:36
cjwatsonI only *just* pushed them out17:36
UbuntuTorrenterat least, not the desktop i386/amd6417:36
cjwatsonand I doubt the backend machine has caught up properly yet17:37
cjwatsonI'd wait ten minutes or so and try again?17:37
UbuntuTorrenterIn the meantime I'll use the regular download link in the webseeds box17:37
cjwatsoncdimage.u.c has certainly not caught up yet; I don't have an easy way to tell whether torrent.u.c has17:37
cjwatsonUbuntuTorrenter: it would be helpful to hold off a bit, to maximise the chance of mirrors catching up17:38
UbuntuTorrentercjwatson, what do yuo mean?17:40
=== TheLordOfTime is now known as teward
cjwatsonUbuntuTorrenter: that it would be helpful not to rush to download it immediately, for the reason I gave17:40
UbuntuTorrenterWhat do you mean, to maximise the chance of mirrors catching up?17:41
cjwatsonI'm trying to allow time for releases.ubuntu.com mirrors to update before I send the announcement17:41
cjwatsonthat's easier if the world isn't hammering it17:41
UbuntuTorrenterBut I need the iso17:41
cjwatsonI'm not saying you can't, I'm saying that you aren't helping Ubuntu by rushing to download it17:41
apwUbuntuTorrenter, he is saying don't hammer the master while we are syncing the mirrors, as they will mirror faster to the benefit of all17:42
UbuntuTorrenterI'm only getting 30 kB/s :'-(17:42
UbuntuTorrenterIs there an easy way to see what mirrors already have it?17:44
cjwatsoncould you please just wait a bit17:44
UbuntuTorrenterbut I need the iso and i'm on a deadline17:45
UbuntuTorrenterAt this rate it is taking 6 hours to complete........17:47
infinityUbuntuTorrenter: Setting deadlines based on malleable release schedules doesn't seem like the sanest idea.  We could have released 6 hours from now, or tomorrow...17:48
cjwatsonI'm on a deadline too, it's "finish the release before I have to stop and do childcare instead"17:48
infinity(And if you wait an hour or two, your download will probably be faster)17:48
UbuntuTorrenterdoes anyone have a link to a direct download of the ISOs besides releases.ubuntu.com/precise/ubuntu-12.04.4-desktop-amd64.iso ?17:49
UbuntuTorrenterperhaps a list of mirrors and their sync status?17:50
cjwatsonI don't have a list of mirrors yet17:51
cjwatsonI'm working on it.  Answering questions on IRC isn't helping17:51
UbuntuTorrenteri am seeing the server is in London17:54
UbuntuTorrenterShould I expect english mirrors to have .4 first?17:55
* mlankhorst points at the previous answer17:55
apwUbuntuTorrenter, there is literally no way to know at the current time, really17:56
xnoxUbuntuTorrenter: please, be patient, ideally wait for torrents to start working and use those once they become available.17:57
xnoxand that would beat everything else.17:57
UbuntuTorrenterI got 15 peers through peer exchange18:01
UbuntuTorrenterand also another web mirrow, gb.releases.ubuntu.com18:01
cjwatsonmirror prober running now, hopefully will get answer soon18:02
infinity(base)adconrad@cthulhu:~$ host gb.releases.ubuntu.com18:02
infinitygb.releases.ubuntu.com is an alias for releases.ubuntu.com.18:02
infinityUbuntuTorrenter: We really don't need the running commentary on how well your download efforts are going.18:02
infinityUbuntuTorrenter: That might seem rude, but this channel is about coordinating releases, not answering random questions.18:02
UbuntuTorrenteroh, is releases.ubuntu.com a dns round-robin? gb. and no prefix got different a records18:02
UbuntuTorrenteroh, I thought it was a channel about the release18:03
cjwatsonOK, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+cdmirrors has a list of mirrors known to have 12.04.4 now18:06
xnoxUbuntuTorrenter: you want #ubuntu-release-party instead =)18:07
cjwatsonseems accurate from a random sampling18:07
cjwatsonso go nuts with any of those mirrors that aren't [gb.]releases.ubuntu.com18:07
xnoxcjwatson: torrent.ubuntu.com says "Requested download is not authorized for use with this tracker"18:08
xnoxwhen attempting to torrent a desktop iso.18:08
cjwatsonhmm, it doesn't seem to have all the ones I'd expect18:10
xnoxwait, it now worked. all is green.18:10
cjwatsonit seems to be still actively syncing - ubuntu-12.04.4-desktop-amd64.iso just appeared in the index18:11
cjwatson-i386 isn't there yet so it's still going18:11
xnoxyeap, desktop-i386 & servers are declined. alternates & amd64 are good.18:12
cjwatsondesktop-i386 should be there now18:13
cjwatsonhttp://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/ has the index of what it has18:13
xnoxah, excellent. didn't know about that page.18:13
LaneyThe machine is pretty slow at hashing new files18:14
LaneyYou should expect a fair delay18:14
cjwatsonbetter than it used to be on the old hw, but yes18:15
Laneyyeah, at least IS don't have to be poked every time18:15
* Laney → team dinner18:15
* mlankhorst → Laney18:18
cjwatson2014-02-06 18:19:15 INFO    Re-enabling 16 mirror(s): ...18:19
cjwatsongetting there18:19
UbuntuTorrenterAwesome -- added those 50-something as webseeds, getting a megabyte per second18:21
xnoxUbuntuTorrenter: i'm getting more than that via torrents, which are now working.18:22
UbuntuTorrenteralso, I see you authorizd on the trackers18:22
elfycjwatson: I'm still holding off on publishing announcement18:23
UbuntuTorrenteronly two seeds from the tracker, though18:23
cjwatsonauthorized> we didn't do anything except wait - the unauthorized state happens when the tracker hasn't caught up with syncing the raw files to its own disk yet18:23
cjwatsonelfy: yep, I'm waiting for cdimage itself to finish syncing :-/18:24
elfyok wasn't sure what was going on amongst all the noise ;)18:24
cjwatsonit's getting there, seems to be up to ubuntustudio18:25
cjwatson(or thereabouts, given that there are multiple hosts)18:25
elfyI shall go fight the weather for a bit18:25
cjwatsoncall it maybe half an hour18:25
elfyokey doke18:26
* cjwatson vanishes for a bit18:28
zulcan someone please promote ntdb please https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ntdb/+bug/127083118:31
ubot2`Launchpad bug 1270831 in ntdb (Ubuntu Trusty) "[MIR] ntdb, build dependency of samba" [Critical,Fix committed]18:31
=== vila_ is now known as vila
michagogo|cloudWhat is "melior malum quod cognoscis" supposed to mean, btw? Google Translate isn't very useful18:55
michagogo|cloud(and ##latin tells me that it's not valid Latin)18:55
cjwatsonmichagogo|cloud: better the devil you know19:08
cjwatsonit's cod-Latin but it's not *entirely* dreadful :)19:08
* michagogo|cloud googles19:09
cjwatsonI blame slangasek19:10
* michagogo|cloud was unfamiliar with that idion19:10
knomecjwatson, http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_say_Better_the_devil_you_know_in_Latin :)19:10
michagogo|cloudslangasek... name rings a bell19:10
michagogo|cloudOh, I think he was the one who removed Bitcoin and Litecoin from Trusty19:10
cjwatsonnot sure I'm impressed with that wiki.answers post; surely cognosco > scio for this19:12
cjwatsonanyway ...19:12
cjwatsonlooks like one of the cdimage mirrors is still in progress19:13
slangasekcjwatson: "cod" Latin? :)19:26
cjwatsonmm, maybe not quite as much so as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_Latin :-)19:31
cjwatsonI did assume you were going more for comic effect than seriousness though19:31
slangasekI was intending it to be a legitimate Latin translation, did I fail? :)19:32
cjwatsonmichagogo|cloud claimed earlier that ##latin said so19:32
cjwatsonhow accurate *that* is I don't know19:33
knomehttp://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/03files/Space_Weapons_05b_Secret_Satellites.html too.19:33
knome"melior diabolus quem scies"19:33
slangasekhmm, use of subjunctive seems reasonable there19:34
slangasekknome: that's a translation of a slightly different phrase19:35
knomeis it?19:35
cjwatsonwell.  I prefer "badness" to the more literal "devil" here, and I'm definitely not convinced that scio (tends to be knowing of facts) is better than cognosco (tends to be about familiarity)19:35
knomejust evil/devil19:35
cjwatsonthe English is really "better the bad thing that you're familiar with"19:35
slangasek'diabolus quem' == 'the devil whom'; 'malum quod' == 'the evil/bad which'19:36
slangasekin context it refers to bugs; I guess which translation you prefer depends on whether you consider bugs to be active agents of evil ;)19:36
michagogo|cloudslangasek: Btw, that reminds me -- I wanted to ask you a question re: "Unfortunately, it is not feasible to remove the package from stable releases.  If there are versions of the package in stable releases that are actively harmful, we could accept an SRU that disables the problematic parts on upgrade (with a suitable notice)."19:37
michagogo|cloudWhat would the process be for something like this?19:37
michagogo|cloud(I've searched the web for an answer and not found anything)19:38
slangasekmichagogo|cloud: it would be the standard SRU process, providing a patch that neuters the software and explains why (in the bug report, and preferably on upgrade) why this is necessary19:38
* michagogo|cloud , unfortunately, is ~completely unfamiliar with coding and software packaging19:39
cjwatsonI think I gave you an example of such a thing, or do I misremember?19:40
cjwatsonso, zaniah is up to xubuntu-12.04.4-desktop-i386.iso and reportedly not stuck, so hopefully it's not far off now19:42
michagogo|cloudcjwatson: I think you pointed me at a package that did something sort of similar, but that doesn't quite help me19:42
knomeoh yay :)19:42
cjwatsonmichagogo|cloud: I suspect it's the best anyone will be able to offer without actually doing the work themselves19:42
michagogo|cloudI wish I had any idea how any of this worked :-/19:42
elfyincantations I think19:43
cjwatsonyou're just substituting a package that does nothing and provides some kind of reasonable indication to the user19:43
cjwatsonI honestly don't think it's helpful to make it sound magical19:43
NoskcajCould someone from the SRU team approve xfce4-weather-plugin? It's completely broken in precise19:44
cjwatsonstgraber: do you know why import-images is basically just sitting continuously using an entire core on nusakan?  it seems a bit excessive19:45
stgrabercjwatson: yeah, that's unfortnuately how it works... turns out repacking tarballs uses a lot of CPU19:46
cjwatsonoh, it's doing that in-process?19:46
cjwatsonsorry, I assumed that since it had no compressor subprocesses it was doing something else19:46
cjwatsonbut yeah, when I look at its fd list it's obvious19:46
michagogo|cloudcjwatson: How much would I need to know in order to try doing that, keeping in mind that I know nothing about Ubuntu packaging?19:46
stgrabercjwatson: it calls pxz out of process to compress/uncompress the tarballs, but the actual file copy between tarballs and moving things into sub-directories and such is done in-process with python-tarfile19:47
cjwatsonmichagogo|cloud: you would need to rectify at least some of the latter first; but I wouldn't have thought very much, reading through the stuff on packaging.ubuntu.com ought to suffice19:47
cjwatsonempty packages are by definition simpler than packages with something in them :)19:48
cjwatsonyou'd just need to know how to install documentation19:48
stgraberthe part that takes a long time is iterating through the whole rootfs.tar from cdimage, replacing a few entries in there while moving everything into system/<original path> and generating a new .tar with that. (I believe the current end to end time for a new image is around 20min)19:48
cjwatsonand of course whatever changelog/control changes are necessary19:48
michagogo|cloudcjwatson: Would any coding be needed?19:48
cjwatsonsome fairly trivial amount19:49
michagogo|cloudWould it be in C++?19:49
michagogo|cloud(I know zero C++)19:49
cjwatsonmake and maybe shell19:49
michagogo|cloudWhat would it be, then?19:49
cjwatsonif you have further questions please take them to another channel though19:49
cjwatson<img src="../../../../cdicons/iso.png" alt="[   ]" width="22" height="22"> <a href="xubuntu-12.04.4-desktop-i386.iso">xubuntu-12.04.4-desktop-i386.iso</a>            05-Feb-2014 16:29  703M  Desktop CD for PC (Intel x86) computers (standard download)19:50
cjwatsondunno, maybe #ubuntu-motu or #ubuntu-app-devel or something19:50
zequencemichagogo|cloud: Are you interested in helping out with one of the flavors other than the standard Ubuntu? Anyone of those would do, pretty much.19:51
michagogo|cloudzequence: Hmm?19:51
cjwatsonok, meta-release updated19:52
cjwatsonRiddell,zequence,stgraber,knome: please publish announces19:54
cjwatsonI've sent my mail, should be moderated shortly19:54
zequencemichagogo|cloud: Any channel associated with one of the other flavors, is what I meant. All of the flavors would like to get more help, in one way or another, and by helping them out, you will also find people willing to assist you in learning about packaging.19:54
Noskcajslangasek, Could you have a look at the precise xfce4-weather-plugin SRU? the package is completely broken in precise19:55
michagogo|cloudzequence: At the moment, I'm just looking at getting this one package disabled19:55
cjwatsonoff for a while, I'll tidy up any odds and ends of announcement locations and such when I get back19:55
stgraberedubuntu published19:55
=== cjwatson changed the topic of #ubuntu-release to: Released: Trusty Alpha 2, 12.04.4 | Archive: open | Trusty Tahr Release Coordination. Please don't upload things during freezes where you shouldn't, or be prepared to apologise to the release team | we accept payment in cash, check or beer | melior malum quod cognoscis
zequenceubuntustudio published19:58
elfyxubuntu published19:59
infinitycjwatson: Congrats.20:02
infinityzequence: You might want to pick a shorter URL for your release announcement next time.  ;)20:03
zequenceinfinity: It is almost longer than the text in the article :). Any specific reason?20:06
infinityzequence: Just cause it looked "icky" in the release email after everyone else's short URLs.  No reason other than me being a pedant. :P20:08
zulinfinity: mind promoting ntdb for me please20:25
* infinity looks at the bug./20:25
infinityzul: Done.20:28
zulinfinity:  thanks20:28
=== chrisccoulson_ is now known as chrisccoulson
xnoxslangasek: i was under the impression that "better the devil you know" was a tribute to Madonna's song "Like it or not", little did i know it's a Kylie's song in the first place.23:03
xnoxslangasek: and well a proper english idiom.23:03

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