neurohmm, official now: http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/6/5385212/sony-sells-off-vaio-pc-division00:21
diddledan__I just followed a link from that article to the satya nadella article00:37
diddledan__i.e. new boss @ microsnot00:37
diddledan__"cloud first, mobile first"00:43
diddledan__sounds like "developers developers developers"00:43
neuroit actually makes sense00:43
diddledan__yes it does00:43
neurothey need to get their act together or they'll be best known as that company who makes xboxes and office apps who also used to make some sort of window00:44
neuroif they can stop this notion that they can still dominate the consumer OS space, and concentrate on cloud platforms, enterprise OSes/apps and xbox, they'll go far00:45
neuroand try to fashion nokia into a blackberry-style platform for businesses00:46
neurothat's my thoughts anyway00:46
neurowindows 7 is only slightly better than windows 2000, windows 8 is a joke, meanwhile OS X and Linux have been on constant iterative innovation cycles leaving them with way more stable platforms and way more attractive development bases00:47
neurolet the marketplace migrate to android tablets and ubuntu desktop/laptops00:48
neuroand people will quickly scream for better apps than libreoffice00:48
neuroand they'll appear00:48
diddledan__libreoffice has been coming up with innovations, too, though00:49
neuro"we crash only once an hour now!"00:49
diddledan__like the latest release making it the only desktop office suite in existence that utilises the gPU00:49
neuroyou sure about that?00:49
diddledan__that utilises the GPU for spreadsheet work?00:50
neurooh ok, that's new00:50
neurono idea if OS X does that00:50
diddledan__I'm talking GPGPU00:50
diddledan__aka opencl00:50
neuroyeah, i figured00:51
diddledan__ref: http://www.libreoffice.org/download/4-2-new-features-and-fixes/#Formula Engine00:52
diddledan__bah @ bad paste00:52
neuro%20 :)00:52
diddledan__Engine should be part of the linky00:53
neurostill, pass ;)00:53
diddledan__yeah, it's ugly as sin00:54
daftykinsthing is, are there really any situations where that's going to actually save much time over CPU only?00:54
diddledan__daftykins: I guess it depends on the type of calculations you use a spreadsheet for00:55
neuroi've seen some pretty gnarly spreadsheets in my time00:55
neuroscroll down to look at Pages00:56
diddledan__yeah pages is pretty sweet00:56
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away
neuromavericks has opencl support built in01:00
neuro(actually, os x has had it since 2006 i think)01:00
neuroso it's possible numbers uses opencl without numbers actually realising it01:00
diddledan__opencl was invented by apple IIRC01:00
neurodeveloped by and holds the trademarks to01:02
neurothen iterated on by apple, amd, ibm, qcomm, intel, nvidia01:02
neurothen standarised01:02
neuropeople wail on apple at times without actually realising some of the cool stuff they've given back to the community01:03
neurocups, for example01:03
diddledan__what I really want is some of the tech from linux to work in osx like kvm01:03
diddledan__<3 osx01:03
neurowhat, you mean without having to kludge it with an app like fusion or parallels?01:04
neurowouldn't surprise me if it happened at some point01:04
neuroalthough their focus really isn't on servery enterprisey smelling stuff these days01:04
neuroi can only imagine what a 2014 xserve would be like01:04
neurogiven the crazy stuff they did with the mac pro01:05
diddledan__well they canned the xserve :-(01:05
neuroi know01:05
neurohence why i can only imagine :)01:05
neuroi was toying with buying one off ebay the other day01:05
neuromost of them are a state01:05
neuropeople selling them missing drive caddies and the like01:05
neurothen i came to my senses01:05
neuroand started searching ebay for color classics :D01:06
diddledan__I bet they've still got the second-hand apple premium though01:06
neurothey do a bit yeah01:06
neurothe old ppc ones are reasonably priced01:06
neurobut like i say, finding a decent one is tough01:06
neuroa lot of them have had the crap kicked out of them01:06
neurothis is ridiculous: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/32109042300201:11
neuroi forgot people did that to color classics01:11
neuro"let's gut an LC575 and put it into a color classic!"01:12
daftykinsfor some reason 'logic board' grates with me so much01:30
neurogood grief01:33
neurosomeone is selling an Atari Falcon 030 on ebay for ...01:33
daftykinsa steal!01:34
neuroi don't even think it cost that much when new01:34
daftykins(i don't know that system) :D01:34
neuroit's basically an Atari ST with a 68030 and Jaguar-like graphics capability01:35
diddledan__I do wish people would get "free as in beer" the correct way about01:44
diddledan__beer is not gratis, it's libre01:44
daftykinsis that because you don't like it and thus never drink any?01:45
diddledan__aparently xcode from apple is free as in beer?01:45
diddledan__dammit people get your references straight!01:45
neuronot sure if you're kidding, but if you're not, that's the wrong way around01:46
diddledan__no it's not01:46
diddledan__beer is libre01:46
neurofree as in beer means free of cost01:46
neurofree as in free speech means libre01:46
diddledan__free as in beer - when was the last time you went to a pub and got free-of-cost beer?01:47
diddledan__free as in beer refers to the fact that anybody can recreate it becasue it's libre - the recipe is open01:47
neurono, it doesn't01:47
neuro“Free software” means software that respects users' freedom and community. Roughly, it means that the users have the freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. Thus, “free software” is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of “free” as in “free speech,” not as in “free beer”.01:48
daftykinsdiddledan__: wow you were being serious?01:49
neuroi thought he wasn't :)01:49
diddledan__people use the phrase "free as in beer" not the phrase "free beer"01:49
diddledan__that gnu item uses the latter01:50
diddledan__which is different to "free as in beer"01:50
neuroah, you're being 2am pedantic, ok ;)01:50
daftykinsi was originally just going to say, hey neuro meet diddledan! ;)01:51
neuroit's more of a shorthand these days, at least for us enlightened lot01:51
neuro"free as in speech" is syntactically wrong as well, but people still use it01:51
diddledan__"free as in beer" is an ethic, "free beer" is an example01:52
neurobest just to suck it up, imagine slapping rms silly with those stupid disk platters of his, and move on with life, safe in the knowledge that you're not rms01:52
diddledan__I prefer to use free as in beer when referring to libre01:52
neuroyou may notice i'm not that keen on rms01:53
diddledan__because it most accurately portrays the meaning01:53
daftykinsneuro: i detected a hint, couldn't be sure though...01:53
neurobut free as in beer DOESN'T mean libre01:53
diddledan__you _may_ have to pay for beer but you can always recreate it yourself based on the same recipe01:53
diddledan__that's the definition of libre, no?01:54
neuroyou're manhandling the definition of libre onto the common, although misquoted, definition of gratis01:54
neurostop it01:54
neurostep away from the definitions, yo01:54
neurodaftykins: can't stand the man, unfortunately01:55
neuroand i've met him, so it's not like some sort of unfounded misdirected rage01:55
diddledan__he's got a good beard tho01:56
neurohe really doesn't01:56
neuroit's unkempt01:57
neuroand i don't like alan cox's beard either, before you say anything01:57
neurobut at least alan cox is a nice guy01:57
daftykinsneuro: i hear rms has a violent odour02:02
neurowhen i was near him, i was also near coffee being brewed02:03
neuroso there may have been some masking elements02:03
neurobut he was whiny, grumpy and awful to talk to02:03
neuroa poor ambassador02:03
neurohe "blessed" my Vaio running win2k as well02:03
neuroi sold it the next year02:04
neuroman, google have switched off subtle mode today02:05
neurorainbow logo linking to a search for "Olympic Charter"02:06
diddledan__apparently russia is allowed to crack down on gays during the lympits but lympians aren't allowed to protest about it02:06
diddledan__for fear of being banned for life from all lympit02:07
neurothey're doing a good job of it before they go though02:07
neurocf german outfits, canadian luge video, channel 4 gay mountain ad ...02:07
daftykinsgood job of what? huh?02:09
daftykinsdid they? are they still going?02:14
neuroteam gb are for sure02:15
daftykinssuckers for medals02:16
neurobed time02:24
=== LjL is now known as Al-Jayal
=== Al-Jayal is now known as LjL-September
prasanth_sir i need free cds of ubuntu05:34
prasanth_help me out05:35
MooDoomorning all06:55
MooDoohow is everyone this morning?07:32
MartijnVdSMooDoo: time for weekend :)07:43
TheOpenSourcererMorning all07:43
MooDooMartijnVdS: at 3:30 :)07:44
MooDoomorning TheOpenSourcerer how goes it?07:45
TheOpenSourcererGood thanks07:46
TheOpenSourcererYou MooDoo07:46
TheOpenSourcererLooking forward to tomorrow's 6 Nations match - should see England thrash Scotland.07:46
MooDooTheOpenSourcerer: It would be nice to see them thrash scotland, I hope it's not as close as the last one lol07:47
TheOpenSourcererThe French were bloody lucky. It was good game - Thought England played pretty well actually.07:48
MooDoowe'll see eh :)07:52
jussicome on scotland? :P :P07:55
jussioh, and "Morning all"07:55
MooDoojussi: shush you ;) and morning07:56
jussihows things MooDoo?07:59
MooDoojussi: yeah ok thanks, just rebuilt my vps as as i'm here it's workied :D08:01
=== stuphi_away is now known as stuphi
TheOpenSourcererWow - there's some hard-core code on here: http://www.darpa.mil/OpenCatalog/index.html Shame I don't understand *any* of it ;-)08:12
MartijnVdSthe names are interesting too08:12
MooDoocode?  where were going we don't need any code....08:12
MartijnVdSMooDoo++ # Heavy, doc!08:13
MooDooTheOpenSourcerer: what you talking about, I thought everyone knew about Linear Algebra heheh08:13
TheOpenSourcererI only know about chillies.08:14
MooDooTheOpenSourcerer: yum08:15
MooDooTheOpenSourcerer: stuff the global jam, how about a Ubuntu Chilli jam at your place ;)08:15
TheOpenSourcererMy 2014 season so far: https://plus.google.com/photos/104060033182234025482/albums/597538769577942297708:15
MooDoooooo nice08:16
diploI'd like to grow chillis this year, guessing it's to late already ? Or can you grow all year round TheOpenSourcerer ?08:33
TheOpenSourcererdiplo: If you grow C.Anuumm you are not too late at all. I;ve not started those yet. All the ones so far are C.Chinense or C.Baccatum08:35
TheOpenSourcererIf you have light and heat you can grow all year.08:35
TheOpenSourcererAnd space of course.08:35
MooDooI made a fatel error last year by keeping them outside at the start, ooops nono08:36
popeypip pip08:36
MooDoohowdy popey08:36
popeyi should sleep08:37
MooDooyes you should :D08:37
MooDoounless your still playing your card game :d08:38
diploCheers TheOpenSourcerer, sorry phone went. I will have a read up tonight thanks08:48
TheOpenSourcererCool stuff. Another awesome thing for graphene: http://spectrum.ieee.org/nanoclast/semiconductors/materials/graphene-nanoribbons-get-electrons-to-behave-like-photons  - "Ballistic transport" :-D08:58
dwatkinsooh, that might lead to room-temperature superconductors, perhaps09:02
brobostigonmorning boys and girls.09:04
bigcalmGood morning peeps :)09:05
brobostigonmorning bigcalm09:06
DJonesbigcalm: Did you get your laptop fully working yet, or is nvidia still being a pig09:07
MooDoomorning morning09:07
brobostigonmorning MooDoo09:07
bigcalmDJones: I have bug 1276816 but the machine it working well otherwise :)09:08
lubotu3bug 1276816 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-331 (Ubuntu) "Unable to select Intel in PRIME Profiles within nvidia-settings" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/127681609:08
JamesTaitGood morning all; happy Friday, and happy Wave All Your Fingers At Your Neighbours Day! :-D09:08
DJonesbigcalm: Ta, I think I've found an excuse to get work to buy me a laptop, so that Dell might well be a decent option09:09
bigcalmDJones: well worth buying the laptop I'd say. I expect bugs to be fixed before 14.04 is released09:09
DJonesWhich model was it, I need to bookmark it & then see about pricing09:09
bigcalmhttp://www.dell.com/uk/p/inspiron-15-7537/pd - but they appear to have changed the available options09:11
DJonesThanks, that was roughly what I was looking at09:12
knightwisemorning everyone09:12
MooDoomorning knightwise09:13
DJonesbigcalm: Was also looking at this one http://www.amazon.co.uk/Aspire-V3-571G-15-6-inch-Bluetooth-Graphics/dp/B00B0TLP8G/ref=sr_1_14?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1387374370&sr=1-14&keywords=ACER+ASPIRE+V3-571G09:13
MartijnVdSbluetooth graphics!09:14
cocoa117what's the easiet way for linxu admin to get code onto all his controlled machine?09:15
cocoa117 other then write a virus, :)09:15
MartijnVdScocoa117: ansible, chef, puppet are the 3 big tools for that :)09:15
MartijnVdScocoa117: juju, maybe too09:15
cocoa117MartijnVdS, so we need to prepare each machine with those packages, before this can be automated?09:16
bigcalmDJones: that one has an optical media drive. Might be worth it if you need one09:16
MartijnVdScocoa117: yes, but you can automate a lot of it using a preseeded install09:16
MartijnVdScocoa117: though ansible just uses ssh, I think, an chef has a tool you run in one place to install it on another server09:17
cocoa117MartijnVdS, ok, time for me to learn few more tools today, :) thanks for the suggestions09:17
MartijnVdScocoa117: I don't know enough about puppet to tell you how that works09:17
MartijnVdScocoa117: but you tend to choose 1 of those 3, don't mix them ;)09:17
cocoa117MartijnVdS, got it09:17
DJonesbigcalm: Just comparing the cpu benchmark, there's quite a difference in that score 6877 for the asus, compared to 3939 for the dell, although the dell appears to have a newer graphics card09:17
bigcalmDJones: I guess I didn't look around as much as I could have. I've had acers in the past and haven't been that impressed with the build quality over dell09:18
DJonesbigcalm: Yeah, I've not had an Asus myself, (wife's got one and not had any issues), Dells have always been good quality though09:19
DJonesThe other one I'm thinking about is http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-Z510-15-6-inch-Laptop-i7-4700MQ/dp/B00HR6TYZC/ref=sr_1_28?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1391762020&sr=1-2809:20
DJonesBut only 1gb graohics09:20
bigcalmDJones: it doesn't say what the screen res is09:21
bigcalmOh, found it09:21
DJonesI guess swings & roundabouts in the end, faster processor compared to better graphics09:21
DJonesAll 3 are same screen size, and looking the nvidia can go to 2Gb09:22
bigcalmThe dell can do 16gb ram out of the box, may be able to take it higher - who knows09:22
bigcalmLooks like you have some nice things to decide between09:23
bigcalmYou'll have the same teething nvidia troubles with all of those laptops09:24
DJonesYeah I'd expect so anyway09:25
MartijnVdSso, don't buy nvidia!09:25
DJonesI guess on specs, the Lenovo looks slightly better is I can find one with a 2Gb nvidia09:26
MooDoodo you need the fast graphics, are you planning on playing games or using wibbly windows ;)09:28
brobostigonwindows that shimmy,09:28
MartijnVdSMooDoo: HL2 and friends run fine on haswell onboard graphics09:28
DJonesMooDoo: Well, MInecraft09:28
MooDooDJones: nuff said :D  minecraft ftw, I run my own Feed the BEast Server :D09:29
DJonesMooDoo: Are there other games?09:30
MooDooDJones: well no not really, although I'm just waiting for steam to convery bioshock infinite to be able to run on linux, then I'll be happy :D09:30
davmor2Morning all09:57
bigcalmMorning davmor209:57
MooDoomorning davmor210:03
davmor2bigcalm: MooDoo: how am ya both?10:05
bigcalmdavmor2: tired, need a holiday10:09
MooDoodavmor2: cracking now i've rebuilt my vps to LTS10:09
davmor2MooDoo: ha nice10:12
davmor2bigcalm: :( I'll get my little violin out and play a tune just for you ;)  You still work on holiday so it can't be that bad :P10:13
MooDoodavmor2: yeah i'm tralking to you from it now irrsi + screen  FTW!10:13
bigcalmdavmor2: off to Liverpool tonight for the weekend (if Hayley is well enough). We'll see if I relax up there10:14
davmor2MooDoo: byobu-tmux + irssi + irssi-proxy + any local irc client == WIN!10:15
MooDoodavmor2: ok smarty pants.10:15
davmor2bigcalm: no you'll have a phone so at some point you will check your email which will make you think hmm if I do this this and this and then before you know it you're working ;)10:17
davmor2MooDoo: irssi proxy pretty much rocks :)10:17
shaunothat's pretty much my setup - sans byobu, I never saw the appeal10:18
knightwisebyobu is pretty great to keep sessions runnign and stuff10:19
knightwiseterminal server style , handy if you log in from different locations10:19
MartijnVdSyeah but annoying if you log into one machine from 2 terminals on the same machine10:20
MartijnVdSI haven't figured out how to switch to another "window" without the other viewer switching as well10:20
shaunowell, screen/tmux I can use for that .. byobu just seems to add .. fluff?10:21
bigcalmdavmor2: in that respect, I never stop working10:21
MartijnVdSshauno: nice key bindings, some useful "task bar" things like time and system load10:21
shaunowell that'd be a start; I've never found a use for the task bar :)10:22
MartijnVdSshauno: it also contains the window list.. it tells you when a background window has activity (and maybe wants your attention)10:23
davmor2MartijnVdS: just split the screen byobu acts like terminator :)10:25
MartijnVdSdavmor2: I don't use terminator10:26
shaunomy fun 'trick' is that I've rebound all the keys in my terminal app, so eg cmd-T does "send hex 0x01 0x63"10:28
shaunothis way screen uses all the native keybindings when I'm on my own machine, but acts just like screen should when I connect from somewhere else10:28
MartijnVdSweird! :)10:29
MooDoosomeone having issues? ;)10:57
=== 20WAA4UBR is now known as hazrpg
MartijnVdShey, it's hazrpg!11:06
hazrpgMartijnVdS: herro!11:07
hazrpgI just converted to tmux11:11
MartijnVdS\o/ another convert ;)11:11
hazrpgand it seems to not play nicely with .tmux.conf lol11:11
hazrpgor at least using it through byobu anyway11:11
hazrpgI wanted to set a few things as "default" windows... but that seems to spawn MANY tmux instances for some bizzare reason11:14
hazrpganyways, how is everyone?11:14
MartijnVdSa bit busy, but fine. You? :)11:15
hazrpgYeah not too bad. :)11:15
hazrpgfinally got a career going \o/11:21
dwatkinsyay tmux11:23
MooDoobloomin customers11:34
neuroi keep saying, life would be so much easier without customers and users11:34
dwatkinsI thoroughly agree, MooDoo11:34
neuroless interesting, perhaps11:35
neuroand salaryless too11:35
neurobut easier11:35
MooDooI'm right your wrong, well that's not acceptable i want a different answer....raaaaa11:35
neurovery customer. wow. so wrong.11:38
MooDoojust annoying and me being me I get frustrated about it11:38
hazrpgdwatkins: \o/ tmux11:53
dwatkinsI use tmux and screen, one inside the other.11:54
davmor2dwatkins: you know they get that effect from mirrors normally12:16
MartijnVdShazrpg: what kind of career? :)12:19
jussiYACoT FTW :D12:34
davmor2MooDoo: but that's what letmegooglethatfor you is for surely ;)12:35
MooDoodavmor2: alas no.12:35
davmor2MooDoo: well at least play sadtrombone.com to them :D12:36
MooDoodavmor2: I can't do that, i'm a professional i send them to tumbleweed.popey.com12:36
davmor2MooDoo: hahaha12:36
dwatkinsdavmor2: impressive12:55
=== stuphi is now known as stuphi_away
bigcalmWe are hiring! http://siftware.com/needs-you/13:14
=== LjL-September is now known as LjL
jpdsI hope no PHP is involved in a weapons system.13:15
hazrpgMartijnVdS: Analyst/Developer at a uni13:25
foobarrywhich ?13:26
foobarrywhich country :P13:26
hazrpgin the UK ^_^13:27
foobarrywhich uni :P13:28
hazrpgfoobarry: does it matter :P?13:29
foobarryyes, please PM me :P13:29
foobarryi am interested13:30
foobarryespecially to hear of .ac.uk workers on irc13:30
neurowait, a work from home job13:33
neuroand they'll send you an aeron and a coffee machine?13:33
neuroand fruit?13:34
=== YaManicKill_ is now known as YaManicKill
hazrpgneuro: i noticed that too... o.O14:11
hazrpgmorning popey14:12
neuroi'd rather not have the money spent on that stuff and spent towards my salary ;)14:14
hazrpgneuro: agreed :P14:15
MooDooyou guys get paid to work? luxury ;)14:15
bashrcin mah day...14:16
hazrpgMooDoo: I hear its all the range ^_^14:16
MooDoohazrpg: I think I'm getting fleeced, at work on facebook and irc and not getting paid...;)14:19
hazrpgMooDoo: :P14:19
xalyyhalo :D?15:51
xalyyCan someone help me how to configure the network without DHCP?15:52
xalyyHave no connection on my dedicated server :S15:53
mapps/etc/network/interfaces is the file i think15:53
xalyyYes but how do I know what is the defult ip gateway etc?15:53
mappsah do u not know any of the details?15:53
mappsyou need to know those15:53
xalyynot really :S15:54
xalyyWhere can I know it?15:55
mappscan u access the svr at all now15:55
bashrcSomething like this, maybe http://freedombone.uk.to/#sec-4.215:56
=== stuphi_away is now known as stuphi
xalyyi can access to the server15:57
xalyytrough KVM15:57
xalyyDRAC KVM15:57
directhexeither you have DHCP, or your server provider tells you the details15:58
directhexthere is no middle ground15:58
xalyySo I have to ask from the server provider?15:58
directhexthe server provider should already have told you. or configured dhcp.16:02
xalyyOnly the server provider can activate DHCP16:02
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g|vt
popeyfoobarry: looks like we may have a 12.04.5 with a trusty (14.04) HWE kernel, which will be nice for those on 12.0416:23
popeyfoobarry: currently under discussion16:23
neuropopey: what about existing installs?16:26
neurowill they get a kernel bump or would it have to be manually changed?16:27
neuroand would new installs get the new kernel by default?16:27
neuro(yeah, i know it's just under discussion at the mo, but just asking!)16:27
=== stuphi is now known as stuphi_away
foobarrycheers popey16:31
foobarry12.04 still feels new to me16:32
mappsno hmm i foolishly removed a package i shouldnt have which removed other stuff (libdb5.1) now i have no internet16:32
mappswlan0 showing under iwconfig - what can i do to fix this;/16:32
foobarryrestore from your btfrs snapshot16:32
neurotee hee16:32
mappslol neuro16:32
mappsi was having trouble with squdguard saw somewhere mention use libdb5.3 so removed 5.1 and yea things went wrong16:33
mappsfoobarry,  how?:/16:33
=== stuphi_away is now known as stuphi
diddledan__scud-guard, eh? terrorist missile protection system?16:34
mappsenough of the mocking..someone help!16:35
diddledan__can you dpkg -i <downloaded libdb from packages.ubuntu.com>?16:35
mappsi could either i figured a) download on here and put on a usb key or b) use the cd?16:36
diddledan__i.e. via download on a separate system16:36
mappsim not sure what I need to install - iwconfig shows wlan0 as i sya but nothing in ifconfig16:36
mappsdownload all those packages manually and install?16:39
shaunoa handy one is apt-get -d (download only).  apt-get -d install the stuff you broke, and then copy *deb from /var/cache/apt/archives/ on that machine, to the stranded one16:39
neuro"There is a technical problem with the Payment Server. Please try again later."16:39
mappsi was going to dl on a windows machine the *.debs not got another working linux machine16:39
neurowell screw you too, Currys16:39
popeytrying to get a chromecast?16:40
neurowouldn't sully my home with one of those16:41
neurodoing a tech run on currys and maplins16:42
diddledan__o_O currys are selling chromecasts?16:42
neurohdmi switch, ethernet cables, indoor aerial, tplink powerline, roku 3 ... whole bunch of stuff16:42
shaunoby the sound of his error message, they're not selling anything :p16:42
neurodon't see any chromecasts on their site16:44
neurobut they have a "Hurry! Last few" on Roku LTs for 30 quid16:44
diddledan__me either on the seeing of chromecasts16:44
neurooh good16:48
neuroa queue16:48
neuroon an 0844 number16:48
neuromy phone bill will hate me16:48
brobostigonnext wednesday of workfare/mwa to go, and thats it, done and finshed, finally, then normality can return.16:48
mappsso ive got to dl about 50 packages shauno |16:48
shaunoI can't tell you, it depends what you removed :)16:53
shaunoactually, I'd take a peek in /var/cache/apt anyway to see if you still have the old one.  depending what your housekeeping is like, there may be more spare parts than you'd expect in there16:53
mappslots it seems16:54
mappsah it stores the packages there16:54
* popey flys home to blighty today16:54
popeywindow seat + sleep should work16:55
jpdsBusiness class?16:56
jpdsI get free upgrades these days.16:56
popeyi dont fly enough16:56
popeywhich i am fine with btw16:57
popeya couple of trips to florida a year are fine by me16:57
jpdsYou don't want to look at my calendar.16:57
* popey has flashbacks of dancing on a table last night with a belly dancer16:57
popeyno doubt photos will pop up soon16:57
* AlanBell wonders if the belly dancer is having flashbacks too16:58
jpds"I was with Elvis!"16:58
jpdsAlanBell: Yep.16:58
davmor2popey: how did a dancer manager to balance on your belly let alone a table17:01
mappsthanks shauno17:01
mappsthere's LOADS there..hopefully most of the stuff i removed in error17:02
mappswish i hadnt done it lol17:02
mappsit even said 'are you sure and made me enter 'Yes i am ' or whatever17:02
diddledan__Do as I say17:03
diddledan__not as I do :-p17:03
mappsgotta go out in a bit17:04
mappswhat a chore17:04
=== Pendulum1 is now known as Pendulum
mappshope this fixes it17:08
shaunomapps: quick lesson there.  if it asks y/n, answer yes or no.  if it asks you to type in "yes I know what I'm doing", abort abort abort17:09
mappsheh yea wish i had17:10
mappsclearly means dont do it17:11
shaunoif all you broke was the wifi, you got off easily.  usually it starts doing that when it's going to try to remove core components, or remove itself ..17:11
daftykinsi believe i have a new achievement today folks17:12
daftykinsi nearly "locked up" a Costa coffee girl from speech alone17:12
daftykins"can i have that muffin without the paper bag?"17:12
daftykinsshe really could not compute that.17:13
mappsive never been to any of these coffee joints17:13
daftykinsah not especially, the island's had two for a while now17:13
daftykinsi'm a bit spoilt though y'see, i have those two Costas and another 3 or 4 coffee shops within about 30m from my front door, as i live right in town17:14
daftykinswhere town = my island's capital17:14
=== stuphi is now known as stuphi_away
mappsreinstalled everything from /var/cache/apt except xfce-power something and gnlme-mnetwork-manager opefully everything works17:26
* mapps has his fingers crossed17:26
mappsapparently not17:28
daftykinswhat did you remove?17:29
mappsand it removed a load of other stuff17:29
daftykinsyou could just run apt-cache showpkg libdb5.117:29
daftykinsor apt-cache policy libdb5.117:29
mappsi went to theapt cacheand just did dpkg -i *.deb :) it failed on 2/3 one was gnome-network-manager does it need that?17:29
mappsim on xubuntu17:29
daftykinsand it'll list all its' dependancies to pull them back in in one hit \o/17:30
daftykinshmm, probably not important nah17:30
daftykinsi don't know whether xfce uses NM17:30
mappsok how do i reverse it then17:31
daftykinsdid you run showpkg or policy on the package?17:33
=== alan_g|vt is now known as alan_g
mappsshowpkg showed loads of reverse depends17:34
mappsok wlan0 appears in ifconfig17:36
daftykinsi'm only on 10.04 so i can't see myself17:36
mappsmaybe i could edit /etc/network/interfaces to get it working and ignore having no network manager for now?17:36
daftykinswell, you'd have to play around with WPA supplicant if you've got a passkey on your network17:36
mappswhy cant i restart my network either17:37
daftykinsi've not seen that work for years now17:37
mapps/etc/init.d/networking restart says calling a sytsvinit script on a system using upstar isnt supported - then service networking restart unknown job networking17:37
daftykinsyeah, i'm not sure of the correct name but even the service restart method i've not seen work when modifying the interfaces file anymore17:39
diddledan__yeah the powers that be have determined that thou must reboob for network changes unless you're using NM17:41
daftykinsdiddledan inserting naughty typos there17:41
mappsah ok17:41
mappsso it isnt an error with my machine17:41
daftykinsmapps: i wonder if you can't just install xubuntu-desktop^ to check everything's back17:42
mappsquick question gnome-network-maager needed network-manager network0manager needing dnsmasq - so to save me going and dl and putting on usb can i get these off my xubuntu cd? set that as the repo or something?17:42
diddledan__with /etc/init.d/networking restart it'll either flat out fail or leave you in a weird state17:42
mappshow would i use the cd as the source/17:42
daftykinsmapps: nah only the alternate CD can be used as a repo17:42
shaunoapt-cdrom if it's installed17:42
daftykinsmapps: did wireless work in the live environment? boot, connect and chroot your install to fix \o/17:43
lubotu3A chroot is used to make programs believe that the directory they are running in is really the root directory. It can be used to stop programs accessing files outside of that directory, or for compiling 32bit applications in a 64bit environment - see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BasicChroot17:43
mappsi cant remember17:43
daftykinsworth a go :)17:43
mappsbut good idew#aok got dnsmasq and network-managet installed heh17:43
diddledan__I wonder how many people are going to be left in the cold in 60 days when xp support ends17:44
diddledan__mapps: that's an impressive typo17:44
daftykinsdiddledan__: given they extended the date for MS Security Essentials people will no doubt think they're safe for longer =/17:44
mappsi was looking away on other machine17:45
daftykinsreally annoying they did that.17:45
diddledan__daftykins: so it's a case that MS won't prevent you being infected but they'll helpfully tell you once you are?17:45
daftykinsindeed! 8D17:46
shaunothey should post a wee message to the corner where my ones keep saying I'm a freeloader.  something along the lines of "shafted in 60 days .."17:46
diddledan__that wording sounds perfect17:46
diddledan__I'm not sure MS would use the same terms though :-(17:47
shauno(not a naughty freeloader, just a '180 days trial is 179 days more than I need' freeloader)17:47
shaunoprobably not.  I had a similar conversation with my boss this afternoon17:47
shaunoapparently my emails could benefit from a little less personality17:47
diddledan__wait, they want a personal touch that isn't personal?17:48
mappsso il boot into live environment daftykins17:48
mappsthen what17:48
diddledan__I thought businesses were all about improving customer relations with personal touch17:48
AzelphurI wish tesco would sell gallon bottles of apple/orange juice, I feel ridiculous ordering 20 1 litre boxes >.<17:49
diddledan__Azelphur: then order 10 2libre boxes?17:49
Azelphurthere are no 2 litres :P17:49
diddledan__there are in sainsburys17:50
shaunowell aren't you posh17:50
Azelphurnot of plain orange juice (not squash, etc)17:50
mappssainsburys isnt that much more expensive17:50
mappswhich is good as it means its less busy17:50
mappsmuch prefer going to sainsburys :)17:50
AzelphurI mostly order tesco since I can pay in BTC :)17:50
mappshaha nice17:50
daftykinsmapps: get connected to your wireless then chroot your install on the hard disk17:50
mappsok not entirely sure i follow -0 can you help me in a bit please?17:51
daftykinsdid you see the bot trigger?17:51
mappsconnected in a live environment17:52
daftykinsbasically you want to choose a mount point, maybe /mnt/chroot then mount your / (root) partition to /mnt/chroot/ and then any other partitions you have beneath that17:52
mappsand then what try and run some apt-get update etc?17:53
daftykinsi think you need /proc and something else there too17:53
mappsor re-install the xubuntu-desktop onto that hdd?17:53
daftykinsyep you chroot to that mount path, then you can handle package management as if you were in the installed version17:53
daftykinsalbeit with connected wireless \o/17:53
mappswish id just said NO17:53
daftykinsah well17:53
daftykinshindsight's 21/2117:54
daftykinsmapps: how's it looking?18:07
mappshad to go to sainsburys;p19:03
mappsdo my shopping19:03
mappsdaftykins,  why ca nt i ssh to it?19:08
mappsinstalled openssh-server19:08
jpdsTo a chroot?19:09
mappswanted to ssh to the live env from my netbook19:09
mappsso i could try and fix it remoyely19:09
jpdsI just entered and have no idea what this 'live env' is.19:10
mappslive environment19:10
jpdsRight, so, that could be live CD, live server, live cloud instance, ...19:11
jpdsOh, I see, you're in a live CD env and are trying to chroot into the installed system?19:12
mappsyes sir19:12
jpdsCheck 'ip addr' and see if it has an IP?19:13
mappsit does19:16
mappsifconfig say so19:16
jpdsIf it's on the same network, you should be able to ssh to that IP.19:19
mappshow can i check if its running19:20
mapps/etc/init.d/ssh restart just doesnt say anything19:20
daftykinsnetstat -tuln should show port 22 listening19:20
mappsdoesnt say anything19:21
mappsi did apt-gfet install openssh-server then i checkedc config and did /etc/init.d/ssh restart any ideas daftykins ?19:21
daftykinsshould see: tcp        0      0
daftykinscan it ping your router?19:22
jpdsOr even just :::22.19:23
mappsnot there19:24
mappsyea i can19:24
mappsbut it doesnt seem to be running?19:24
daftykinsps -ef | grep ssh19:25
daftykinsthat show sshd?19:25
daftykinsanywho SSH'ing in isn't even needed to chroot so why are we diagnosing this? :D19:25
mappscant see it19:26
mappsany idea why it isnt running19:26
jpdsmapps: So, silly question.19:27
jpdsmapps: You did connect the live environment to the network?19:27
daftykinsif he's pinging his router i hope so ;D19:28
mappsdaftykins,  so i could ssh in heh19:29
daftykinsmapps: hrmm, i'd have thought just sort it locally ;)19:48
daftykinsshouldn't take long19:48
mappsmy passport application has my first and second name but the box says first and surname19:49
mappsdo i need to get a new form?19:49
mappsor will it be ok as it is19:49
DJonesProbably not, if it expects surname, it'll need surname19:52
mappssorry i meant first and middle name19:52
mappsbut i didnt put my middle name19:52
mappsok daftykins20:01
mappsim starting npw20:01
mappsinstalled debootstrap and dchroot - it says to create var/chroot20:02
mappsdo i need to ? or not as im using my existing filesystem?20:02
daftykinsthe live environment has its' own file system right now, so you need to pick a path where you're going to mount your installation to20:02
daftykinsinterestingly enough a chap in #ubuntu pastebin'd his little shortcut to setting up a chroot just earlier20:03
daftykinshowever in there, that's assuming that /dev/sda1 = / (your root filesystem)20:03
daftykinsand that there are no more20:03
daftykinsso you may want to confirm your disk structure with "sudo fdisk -l" to start with20:03
mappslets see20:05
mapps/dev/sdb1 /dev/sdc1 hm20:05
mapps/dev/sda1 linux /dev/sda extended and sda5? 2-5 hm is swap20:06
mapps/dev/sda2 extended20:06
mappsso /dev/sda1 is my /?20:06
daftykinscan you run "sudo fdisk -l | pastebinit" ?20:06
daftykinspastebinit might need installing20:06
mappswow cool little tool20:08
mappsid never know of pastebinit20:08
mapps/dev/sdb is my usb stick ive got in there atm20:08
mappssda1 must be root20:08
daftykinsah you'll be fine running the exact pastebin i linked then20:08
daftykinswith the huge long string20:09
=== stuphi_away is now known as stuphi
DJonessdb is 500Gb memory stick? Disk /dev/sdb: 500.1 GB20:09
DJonesHow much did that cost as a USB stick? I'm guesisng you mean SDC is a 16Gb memory stick20:10
mappsyes DJones20:11
MartijnVdSsdhc? :)20:11
DJonesThat could have been a fatal error20:11
mappslol yea20:11
mappsi did mean sdc tho:D20:11
mappssdb was in a usb enclosure as a usb hdd but not a usb pen drive20:11
mappssdc is a usb stick20:11
daftykins*insert atom bomb mushroom cloud here*20:11
mappsmap types YES20:11
mappsthats what got me in this mess hey20:11
diddledan__mushroom - isn't that an extra life?20:11
daftykinsmapps: so you should be sat at a chroot'd prompt of your actual install now20:12
daftykinsmapps: you could confirm by running "ls /home" and seeing your user's home folder20:12
mappsits there20:13
mappsnow whats the plan though? to run apt-get update/dist-upgrade and hope it affects the chroot / ?20:13
diddledan__ok, now rm -rf .........20:13
mappsrm -rf /?20:13
diddledan__something along those lines :-p20:14
mappsdiddledan__, joker eh20:14
daftykinshe doesn't know how to serious.20:14
daftykinspoor lad20:14
daftykinsmapps: so yeah wouldn't hurt to start off with the above20:14
diddledan__hey at least I'm having fun :-D20:14
mappswjhich one daftykins ?20:14
daftykinssudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade20:15
daftykinsalthough you might be as root right now so 'sudo' may not even be necessary20:15
diddledan__you mentioned xubuntu - in which case you _should_ be able to get back to a sane default by apt-get install xubuntu-desktop20:15
daftykinsperhaps after the above20:16
mappsok moment :)20:16
mappsyea i am as root daftykins20:16
diddledan__yeah, do daftykins' process first20:16
mappsits saying it xanrt resolve the domains?20:17
mappsyet i can go to google.cxo.uk20:17
mappsany suggestions?;/20:18
daftykinscat /etc/resolv.conf20:18
mappsyea but i can reach them in fireefox20:18
shaunoinside the chroot will be trying to use the resolvconf inside the chroot (it can't see outside, that's the point).20:18
daftykinsso just slap your router IP / into /etc/resolv.conf20:18
mappsresolv.conf is empty20:18
mappsdidnt realise shauno  && dafty20:19
mappsmany thanks20:19
diddledan__echo nameserver > /etc/resolv.conf20:19
daftykins^_^ s'all good20:19
mappsexplains why i coould do an nslookup in one terminal and not in the other20:19
mappsand now it works20:20
mappsshould i do upgrade && dist-upgrade|20:20
diddledan__apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade20:20
diddledan__note the first it update not upgrade20:20
mappsok done both..didnt take long20:21
mappshowcome i dont need to run apt-get upgrade20:21
daftykinsdist-upgrade is an alternative20:21
diddledan__dist-upgrade is a more forceful upgrade20:22
daftykinsso now: apt-get install xubuntu-desktop20:22
daftykinssee if it finds any packages that need to go on20:22
mapps36.5mb of packages20:22
daftykinsso you could be brave now and boot into it20:23
mappswaiting for it to finish this20:23
diddledan__one the install is done20:23
mappsthen we will try i guess20:23
mappshope this works20:24
daftykinsyou'll want to safely unmount it before reboot, just to be sure20:24
mappsumount the chroot?20:24
daftykinsso you'll type 'exit' then 'sudo umount /dev/sda1'20:24
mappssudo umount /dev/sda1?20:24
daftykinsthen just reboot20:24
daftykinsyank the flash drive, then we shall see :O20:24
diddledan__sudo reboot, surely? :-p20:24
shaunomeh, it's a livecd, if you've unmounted the real disks you can reboot any which way you like.20:25
diddledan__shauno: make me a sammich20:25
shaunojust make sure you exit the chroot before you umount.  else it'll tell you sdb1 isn't mounted but it is20:25
diddledan__you also want to be sure your bash isn't cd'd into the directory you mounted it under20:26
shauno(you have no mtab inside the chroot, which is where mount points are tracked)20:26
diddledan__shauno: and no /proc/mounts, either20:26
shaunothey're usually linked to the same thing these days, no ?20:26
diddledan__I'm unsure whether they're symlinked but they do show the same info20:27
diddledan__in the same format even20:27
mappshad a few errors20:27
mappsbluez bluean and bluez-alsa;i38620:27
mappsignore and reboot?20:27
diddledan__usually when chrooting a dead system I'll cp /proc/mounts /etc/mtab20:27
shaunomore just trying to avoid that if the chroot tells you sdb1 isn't mounted, it's lying, it's not safe to reboot yet20:27
daftykinssounds only bluetooth related so probably no big deal, yeah20:27
shaunoI just mount proc in the chroot :)20:28
diddledan__yeah I do that too20:28
shaunoanyway, not trying to confuse him.  just if the chroot tells you it's safe to reboot, it's lying20:29
mappsso umount20:29
daftykinsparty time, excellent, etc.20:29
daftykins</Bill and Ted>20:29
daftykinsAzelphur: hi sir, how do?20:31
mappsbooting now20:33
mappsjust going downstairs to cook..hope this fixed it:)20:33
shaunoyou're going to leave us in suspense?20:33
daftykinsmapps: no cliffhangers!20:33
mappslogigng in now20:34
mappsits worked i think..i can see the wireless icon20:35
shaunoyou can has wifi?20:35
mappsyep working20:35
mappsthanks so much everyone:D gonna make a note of chroot and how this worked20:35
shaunoand remember that when apt wants you to promise you know what you're doing, it knows better than you :p20:35
shaunoI'm curious why libdb became essential though.  it's in universe on mine (lucid)20:41
daftykinsi think i'll be replacing my lucid VMs with trusty once it goes final20:42
daftykinsthis one i'm on now only runs irssi yet i see it dip 2MB into swap XD20:42
daftykins(128MB RAM allocated)20:42
shaunowell, I guess I have to replace them with something soonish20:42
daftykinsi think we have until 2015 for server20:42
shaunoatm I'm tempted to move it to deb7 just so I have the same thing everywhere though20:43
diddledan__I like using buntu everywhere20:52
diddledan__debian is a bit _too_ conservative for my liking20:53
diddledan__I like a bit of blood20:53
diddledan__(from the bleeding edge)20:53
MartijnVdSdiddledan__: you should read the systemd debate on debian-tech-ctte then ;)20:53
MartijnVdSLOTS of blood there20:53
diddledan__yeah, I can imagine20:54
=== stuphi is now known as stuphi_away
=== stuphi_away is now known as stuphi
=== stuphi is now known as stuphi_away
directhexyay, i have permissions from valve to disclose the takeup numbers on the debian promotion21:50
directhex279. that is the number of keys issued so far to eligible DDs or DMs21:52
AlanBellthat is quite a lot21:53
shaunosilly questio, but one key = the whole kit & kaboodle?  (ie, 279 devs, not 279 software titles)21:53
diddledan__I'm just sit here oblivious :p21:53
directhexshauno, yes21:54
directhexsubscription 14, if you know your way around steamdb21:55
diddledan__wow, that's a generous offer (I just read the debian devel announce post about it)21:56
mappsso glad i asked here..i almost reinstalled whole thing daftykins :P22:06
mappsdaftykins,  around?22:38
mappsgot another query - infact this is what led me to endup screwing everythig up22:38
shauno!ask  ;)22:42
mappsroot@dimension:/usr/local/squidGuard/db# squidGuard -C all22:43
mappsDB->put: method not permitted before handle's open method22:43
mappsnot sure what to do about that22:44
mappsi read its to do with libdm which is why i ended up removing 5.1 and causin problems22:44
mappsany ideas  ive googled it but cant find too much info on it really22:47
shaunohttps://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=894294   looks like it's trying to use something out of libdb4, and you have 522:54
lubotu3bugzilla.redhat.com bug 894294 in squidGuard "squidGuard: database update: BDB1565 DB->put: method not permitted before handle's open method" [High,Closed: currentrelease]22:54
shaunoper http://www.squidguard.org/Doc/known_issues.html  (first issue), BerkeleyDB up to version 4.6 is known to work properly. / Will be fixed in the next version.22:55
mappshowcome theres nothing else anywhere though22:55
mappsso i need to try and put 46 on?!22:55
shaunoor wait for an update; I'm not sure how it works with having multiple versions of the same library22:56
shaunoespecially since today's trouble shows you require libdb for something else too22:56
mappsremoving it screwed everything up22:57
mappsi could try and use squidguard from the repos22:57
mappsbut i was trying to learn to do things manually :)22:57
diddledan__I'd always recommend to use the repo where possible22:58
shaunoseems 12.04 has 4.8, which would still be too recent.  otherwise I'd stick it in a VM22:58
mappsok probably a dmb question22:59
mappshow do i 'remove' squidguard from source then /usr/local/squdguard22:59
shaunonot a dumb question - an awkward question23:00
diddledan__yeah. you might have some luck going into the source you compiled and running sudo make uninsstall23:01
mappsbakc in 10mins gotta walk to work23:01
diddledan__http://rudd-o.com/linux-and-free-software/ways-in-which-zfs-is-better-than-btrfs </flamebait>23:16
=== stuphi_away is now known as stuphi
map|workso as i was saying how do you remove something that you compiled and made from source - rm -rf the dir isnt going to sort it al?23:46
map|workdamn everyones gone23:55

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