[00:00] <valorie> now I just google, but google didn't exist then
[00:00] <valorie> and altavista wasn't a lot of help
[00:00] <ronnoc> the help center IS an application, not a document :p
[00:01] <valorie> right
[00:02] <valorie> and yet, there it sits, unmaintained
[00:02]  * valorie votes for ronnoc as maintainer
[00:03] <ronnoc> I feel your pain valorie. As much fun as has been made over the years about Clippy the paperclip from MS Office, everyone used that little metal guy at some point or another
[00:03] <valorie> I didn't, but then I stopped using windows about then
[00:03] <ronnoc> I would in a heartbeat if I could code a lick
[00:04] <valorie> it was openoffice for me even in win
[00:04] <ronnoc> me too except ay work. I switched in 2006 to OOo and clippy was circa office 2002/3 iirc
[00:04] <valorie> i need to blog about the unloved projects; I'll add khelpcenter
[00:05] <ronnoc> awesome
[00:09]  * Riddell snoozes
[05:22] <ahoneybun_> valorie: you on?
[05:23] <valorie> yep, just got back from my dad's
[05:23] <valorie> have you read up?
[05:23] <ahoneybun_> Nice no I'm on my phone at the gfs house
[05:23] <valorie> ok
[05:28] <ahoneybun_> Can you tell me valorie ?
[05:30] <valorie> sure, I'll paste for ya
[05:34] <valorie> did I paste that to the correct nick?
[05:34] <ahoneybun_> Yep thanks
[07:54] <jarkko_> i have 4 system crash notifications running now, usually 3 when i boot pc..is this normal???
[08:12] <valorie> NO
[08:12] <Peace-> ?
[08:12] <valorie> as you knew, any crashes is not normal
[08:12] <Peace-> valorie: i am doing some stuff with my script 
[08:12] <Peace-> ah ok 
[08:12] <Peace-> :d
[08:12] <valorie> 3 or 4 is bizarre
[08:12] <Peace-> valorie: kde version ?
[08:13] <valorie> jarkko_ is the one with the crashes
[08:13] <Peace-> ok
[08:13]  * valorie has a boring system that Just Works
[08:13] <valorie> back to the olympics
[08:13] <Peace-> valorie: me too :D
[08:15] <jarkko_> kde is the latest that comes from kubuntu ninjas...
[08:15] <jarkko_> but the system seem to work
[08:16] <Peace-> jarkko_: kde version ?
[08:16] <Peace-> jarkko_: ppa ?
[08:16] <jarkko_> 4.12.2
[08:16] <Peace-> jarkko_: i have 4.11 it's rock solid
[08:17] <Peace-> jarkko_: as you should know 4.12.2 it's the new kde and it's not stable as 4.11 series
[08:17] <Peace-> jarkko_:  i did not upgrade kde because i needed a stable system and 4.11 it's rock solid
[08:17] <jarkko_> well i am just curious if some other has those errors on each reboot
[08:20] <valorie> oh, I guess my system isn't perfect: I have to close the lid after rebooting to get any light on my display
[08:20] <valorie> which is pretty weird
[08:21] <valorie> but once I login the second time, everything is peachy
[08:21] <valorie> back to skating....
[08:24]  * Peace- message
[08:27] <jussi> when is freeze (for my activity thing ?) 
[08:28] <jussi> I forget...
[08:34] <jussi> never mind, backsroll ftw
[08:50]  * Peace- message
[08:51]  * Peace- slaps with a channel operator peace
[08:52] <apachelogger> Riddell: the reason rewrite doesn't happen is because it's a lot of work because everyone and their grandma have a different format that you need to pipe into one spot to get complete documentation 
[08:52] <valorie> what is that "message"
[08:52] <Peace-> sorry guys i was tesitng 
[08:52] <valorie> ok
[08:52] <Peace-> i will quit
[08:53] <apachelogger> namely something like docbook(kde) html(kde/gnome) mallard(gnome) man (everything)
[08:53] <jussi> apachelogger: I sent the message to plasma devel and kde promo, as both of those should be involved. Hopefully we get a timely response.
[08:54] <apachelogger> so you end up implementing ontop of KIO which is in itself a monster or, or you rewrite parsers that only work in KHC
[08:54] <apachelogger> which is also shit
[08:54] <apachelogger> ronnoc_: I think people greatly underapreciate that 1GB (or even DVD size) is not infinite
[08:55] <apachelogger> if you argue that every documentation is on bord we are probably talking *at least* 100 mib just for that
[08:56] <apachelogger> then there's the thing that documentation for non-SC applications is not bundled by language
[08:56] <apachelogger> so the more screenshots, and the more translations the more space we are looking at
[08:56] <valorie> I don't think he was arguing for that, but rather making khelpcenter make it easy to get the docs if wanted
[08:57] <apachelogger> then there's people saying we should ship the major translations (which I also not disagree with FWIW), but I think -de -fr -es -ru will probably amount to *at least* another 100 mib
[08:57] <valorie> it's all a balancing act, for sure
[08:57] <apachelogger> then there's people that would like to have the unrestricted upstream artwork on the ISO (wallpapers primarily), another 100 mib down the drain
[08:58] <apachelogger> valorie: <ronnoc> apachelogger: however since we now only ship iso's on DVD size, I think any available help docs should be installed by default if the application is to come on the standard iso, size be dammed :)
[08:58] <apachelogger> putting everything on the dvd is exactly what he proposed :P
[08:58] <apachelogger> and everyone keeps proposing that
[08:58] <apachelogger> from different sides of the isle
[08:59] <valorie> ah, ok
[08:59] <valorie> i missed that
[08:59] <apachelogger> and I am sitting in the middle with a spinning head because 1gib as it turns out is not nearly enough space to even accomodate our current software (i.e. I had to scrap stuff to get the iso size to 1gib :P)
[08:59]  * valorie does not advocate that
[09:00] <apachelogger> I think KDE tech in general just has a problem with scaling that ought to be addressed at some point
[09:00] <valorie> I advocated ronnoc to fix khelpcenter instead
[09:00] <apachelogger> it's this very basic assumption of every application "everything I need will be here"
[09:00] <valorie> indeed
[09:00] <apachelogger> which from a source distributors POV is a very true assumption, it doesn't quite hold true in real life though ^^
[09:01] <apachelogger> at the end of the day all of this eventually falls back to the issue I keep complaining about once a year
[09:01] <valorie> {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} to apachelogger
[09:01] <apachelogger> we have no tech that allows one to install a 'capability' in a distribution independent fashion
[09:02] <apachelogger> like exactly the patches we carry... installing more screensavers, installing more wallpapers, installing flash etc. etc.
[09:02]  * apachelogger rehugs valorie and gets some coffee
[09:03] <valorie> as long as it's easy to get asciiaquarium, I'm happy
[09:04] <valorie> doesn't have to be included
[09:04] <apachelogger> lol
[09:05] <apachelogger> jussi: I think you got stuck in moderation ^^
[09:05] <jussi> I think we need to stop talking about legacy media types... does anyone even install from dvd anymore? 
[09:06] <jussi> I dont even have an optical drive anymore
[09:06] <jussi> apachelogger: that I did..., ahve to just wait
[09:07] <valorie> yes, some people are still using older computers
[09:07] <valorie> people still ask for DVDs at linuxfest NW
[09:07] <jussi> We have 1GB size for a 1gb USb stick right, not for DVD's. If it were for DVD's, there should be n reason not to make it up to 4.3GB
[09:07] <valorie> we only burn them when folks request them though
[09:08] <valorie> we burn thumb drives too if people ask
[09:09] <apachelogger> jussi: ok, noted
[09:10] <apachelogger> valorie: what ought to happen is get usb sticks really ;)
[09:10] <valorie> it's pretty hard to find a one gig drive
[09:10] <valorie> they are almost all 4 or 8
[09:10] <jussi> go to any trade show and pick up all the free ones :P
[09:10] <apachelogger> jussi: fwiw though, I am on a rubbish connection so downloading even 1Gib is already a PITA ^^
[09:11] <apachelogger> valorie: yeah, promo drives are almost always 1gib
[09:11] <apachelogger> at least in the empire of europe
[09:11] <valorie> $4 for a 1gig at amazon.com
[09:12] <valorie> if you buy 10
[09:12] <apachelogger> valorie: get 500 of them ^^
[09:13] <valorie> heh, 2 gb ones are like 4.50
[09:15] <apachelogger> valorie: http://www.flashbay.com/
[09:17] <valorie> would be nice to have kubuntu ones to hand out/sell
[09:35] <jarkko_> would it be possible to sell some usb sticks via kubuntu.org?
[09:36] <jarkko_> with preinstalled kubuntu?
[09:36] <valorie> pre-installed?
[09:36] <valorie> or do you mean a live USB
[09:39] <jarkko_> yes
[09:39] <valorie> sure, we'd just have to shop around a bit, and get a small bunch to test
[09:39] <valorie> someone would have to burn them probably
[09:39] <valorie> which takes time and work
[09:44] <kubotu> ::runtime-bugs:: [1035883] drkonqi crashed with SIGABRT in qt_message_output() @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1035883 (by R3vo tester)
[09:55] <tsimpson> not a good sign when the crash handler crashes
[10:10] <valorie> apachelogger: I will think about your usb idea, and maybe bring it to the council
[10:10] <valorie> niters all
[10:27] <jussi> Prices for Europe are similar... 2 GB/4,60€/kpl 4 Gb 4.85€/kpl 8Gb 4.95€/kpl
[10:27] <jussi> minimum 150
[10:30] <Riddell> jussi: your stickers were popular at fosdem
[11:29] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: oh, I think kf5 daily still needs testing for promotion this week
[11:55] <jussi> Riddell: nice, glad they were appreciated :)
[12:20] <ghostcube> o/
[12:20] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[13:48] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: ok
[16:34] <shadeslayer> !testers | KDE SC 4.12.2 for saucy in kubuntu-ppa/staging
[16:35]  * mamarley has already been testing it since it was in -ninjas.  No problems to report :)
[16:42] <shadeslayer> mamarley: 4.12.2 for saucy was never in ninjas
[16:42] <shadeslayer> mamarley: can you check if kde-full installs fine for you
[16:43] <mamarley> Darn, I thought it said Trusty.  Well, I have got a couple of Saucy systems I can install it on.
[16:43] <mamarley> shadeslayer: Is "kde-full" on Saucy or Trusty?  Or both?
[16:43] <shadeslayer> saucy
[16:45] <shadeslayer> yofel: any reason why akonadi is built with boost 1.46?
[16:45] <shadeslayer> for precise
[16:45] <yofel> because that's the default version to precise, you need to use the versioned build-deps for precise so it picks up 1.48
[16:46] <shadeslayer> right
[16:46] <shadeslayer> that I'm doing right now
[16:46] <shadeslayer> but just wanted to confirm if it was there for a particular reason
[16:46] <yofel> don't think so
[16:47] <shadeslayer> fwiw kate-precise hooks were screwed
[16:47] <shadeslayer> ran sed -i debian/control
[16:47] <shadeslayer> er, rules
[16:47] <shadeslayer> someone care to clean the backports ppa? :P
[16:47] <shadeslayer> it's full
[16:48] <yofel> that's a problem?
[16:48] <shadeslayer> will copying work with a full repo?
[16:48] <yofel> you can probably wipe anything raring in there
[16:48] <yofel> it will
[16:48] <shadeslayer> aha cool
[16:49] <yofel> what was screwed about kate though?
[16:49] <yofel> ah damn
[16:49] <shadeslayer> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/+junk/kubuntu-automation/revision/314
[16:49] <yofel> thanks for fixing 11
[16:49] <yofel> ... ^^
[16:49] <shadeslayer> np
[16:50] <shadeslayer> yofel: http://udoo.org/
[16:51] <yofel> sweet :D
[16:51] <shadeslayer> quite :)
[16:52] <shadeslayer> I'm so conflicted between a udoo and a cubox i
[16:53] <shadeslayer> though the cubox i won't start shipping for another 2 months I think
[16:55] <shadeslayer> great
[16:55] <shadeslayer> I think my external drive is dead
[17:37] <shadeslayer> Riddell: please add https://bugs.launchpad.net/kubuntu-driver-manager to kubuntu-bugs
[17:40] <Riddell> mm, how do I do that again?
[17:42] <shadeslayer> no clue
[17:43] <shadeslayer> maybe I should subscribe kubuntu-bugs to kubuntu-driver-manager ?
[17:43] <shadeslayer> Riddell: https://launchpad.net/kubuntu-driver-manager/+subscribe
[17:44] <shadeslayer> I don't see kubuntu-bugs in there
[17:49] <Riddell> oh yes, I see it, subscribed
[17:51]  * BluesKaj is testing saucy after installing the saucy ppa staging ppa, all is well , so far
[17:53] <shadeslayer> Riddell: maybe subscribe https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/about-distro and https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-config-whoopsie too
[18:07] <Quintasan> http://www.muktware.com/2014/02/debian-technical-committee-votes-systemd-upstart/20780
[18:07] <Quintasan> oh lol
[18:07] <Quintasan> I wonder what's going to happen now.
[18:15] <BluesKaj> hmm, my vpn server fails to connect after the saucy ppa staging and resulting upgrade was installed
[18:16] <shadeslayer> Riddell: plz review blog post if you have the time
[18:16] <ahoneybun> ronnoc: that would be great 
[18:17]  * ahoneybun checks email
[18:18]  * Peace- slaps Riddell with a thermonuclear weapon. Ye haw
[18:18] <Peace-> ops :D it works :D
[18:18] <shadeslayer> mamarley: any issues?
[18:18] <mamarley> Sorry, haven't installed it yet.  Doing so now...
[18:18] <shadeslayer> oh ok
[18:21] <mamarley> Oh wait, it is in Staging?  The one that says "For the love of the blue gears, DO NOT USE."?
[18:21] <shadeslayer> yes
[18:21] <shadeslayer> only use if someone asks to test :)
[18:21] <shadeslayer> never for production use
[18:22] <mamarley> My only Saucy systems are in production :(
[18:23] <shadeslayer> oh hmm
[18:35] <ahoneybun> apachelogger: so we are debating about iso sizes?
[19:50]  * ahoneybun will get some 14.04 screenshots valorie
[20:00] <philwyett> Evening all. Do we know when daily ISO generation will resume?
[20:27] <ahoneybun> valorie apachelogger Riddell the installation slides have been updated with images from alpha 2
[21:10] <lordievader> Good evening.
[21:10] <ahoneybun> hey lordievader
[21:11] <shadeslayer> evening :)
[21:12] <lordievader> Hey ahoneybun, shadeslayer. How are you guys?
[21:12] <shadeslayer> tired
[21:12] <ahoneybun> good
[22:11]  * ahoneybun notices that not a lot of people use /away
[22:15]  * yofel tends to never use that.
[22:15] <yofel>  Quassel has auto-away on client-close, but as I often leave my notebook running at home it's not very useful
[22:16] <yofel> ahoneybun: btw. I'm sorry for not looking at tomahawk the last few days. A cold + stress at work are not a good mixture for motivation :(
[22:16] <ahoneybun> yofel: its fine, life happens :)
[22:18] <yofel> what was that about iso sizes btw.?
[22:18] <ahoneybun> yofel: that amarok-doc is not installed by default because of the size
[22:18] <yofel> ah right, that indeed was the reason IIRC
[22:19] <yofel> actually, it was the reason to make that package in the first place
[22:19] <ahoneybun> how do I make a new branch on lp?
[22:20] <yofel> you branch the current one then push to a different location
[22:20] <ahoneybun> I have a one for saucy but need a new one for trusty
[22:20] <yofel> lp will auto-create the branch on push
[22:20] <ahoneybun> bzr push lp:~aaronhoneycutt/kubuntu-docs/trusty?
[22:20] <yofel> yep
[22:20] <ahoneybun> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "/home/aaron/Documents/Kubuntu Work/Docs/lp/trusty/".
[22:21] <yofel> is that a bzr repository?
[22:21] <ahoneybun> the dict?
[22:21] <shadeslayer> kubuntu-docs as a project needs to exist
[22:21] <ahoneybun> folder
[22:21] <yofel> the folder, yes
[22:21] <yofel> if not, 'bzr init' will be required first
[22:21] <ahoneybun> I see
[22:21] <yofel> but why aren't you branching from saucy?
[22:21] <ahoneybun> how so?
[22:21] <ahoneybun> I did
[22:22] <ahoneybun> bzr branch lp:~aaronhoneycutt/kubuntu-docs/saucy 
[22:22] <yofel> just 'bzr branch ..' the saucy branch, rename folder to trusty and push
[22:22] <ahoneybun> I did that
[22:22] <ahoneybun> oh
[22:22] <yofel> that way you'll keep the history
[22:23]  * ahoneybun always forgets his id_rsa passphrase
[22:26] <ahoneybun> uploading
[22:26] <ahoneybun> or something
[22:27] <ahoneybun> yofel: thing apachelogger will mind if I use his git branch in my lp branch?
[22:27] <ahoneybun> *think
[22:28] <yofel> uh... as I don't know which branches you're talking about: no idea
[22:28] <ahoneybun> git://anongit.kde.org/scratch/sitter/kubuntu-docs
[22:30] <yofel> probably... not
[22:30] <yofel> why's that even on kde git o.O
[22:35] <ahoneybun> I removed all the old folders and added what apachelogger made
[22:35] <ahoneybun> how do I get my changes to show>
[22:38] <yofel> commit and push?
[22:39] <ahoneybun> I used "bzr add 'file/folder name'"
[22:40] <ahoneybun> ok got it
[22:41] <ahoneybun> pe
[22:42] <ahoneybun> pushing
[22:53] <ahoneybun> uploaded
[22:59] <ahoneybun> apachelogger: https://code.launchpad.net/~aaronhoneycutt/kubuntu-docs/trusty/+merge/205511
[23:27] <soee_> guys do you have problems with Gstreamer for phonon ?
[23:27] <soee_> like you cant change volume inside app only through kmix ?
[23:27] <soee_> on vlc all works fine
[23:28] <ahoneybun> Fn + Vol + and - don't work
[23:28] <ahoneybun> for me I have to use kmix
[23:29] <soee_> with GStreamer ?
[23:29] <ahoneybun> um let me check
[23:29] <ahoneybun> I have not changed that
[23:29] <soee_> i tested now with VLC backend andd works fine]
[23:30] <ahoneybun> gstreamer
[23:30] <soee_> :) can you change to VLC ?
[23:30] <soee_> and test
[23:30] <ahoneybun> what is the package name?
[23:30] <soee_> phonon-backend-vlc
[23:31] <ahoneybun> downloading/installing
[23:35] <ahoneybun> still nothing
[23:35] <ahoneybun> still nothing
[23:35] <ahoneybun> still have sound
[23:36] <ahoneybun> now there is a vlc icon for amarok in kmix
[23:38] <soee> did you change backend to VLS in system settings and logout/login ?
[23:38] <soee> *VLC
[23:40] <ahoneybun> yes
[23:40] <soee> strange :?
[23:52] <ahoneybun> yea