[04:28] <diddledan> mornign
[06:51] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:40] <MartijnVdS> \o
[07:41] <MooDoo> morning MartijnVdS
[07:41]  * MartijnVdS prepares for another day of writing tests
[07:41] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: enjoy
[07:41] <MartijnVdS> (of the unit kind)
[07:45] <MooDoo> close encounters of the test kind
[07:46] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQzI3sz83FY
[07:46] <MooDoo> do do do do do :)
[07:52] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: 4d3, 4e3, 4c3, 4c2, 4g2?
[07:54] <diddledan> that's weird notation
[07:54] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: it's tvtropes notation :)
[07:54] <diddledan> aah
[07:54] <diddledan> I was gonna suggest modplug
[07:54] <MartijnVdS> welcome to the timesink ;)
[07:55] <diddledan> I like that it didn't take you long to figure out the notes involved
[07:56] <diddledan> I like the bit where they go "do do do HONK HONK"
[07:59] <MooDoo> lol you guys :D
[08:01] <diddledan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mWKgaZQLSw
[08:02] <diddledan> I wasn't aware they'd made a series of monsters vs aliens
[08:04] <diddledan> this is a better copy of the same vid - bit longer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1eGHeuyeQQ
[08:07] <diddledan> funny movie that
[08:49] <diplo> Morning all
[08:50] <MooDoo> morning diplo how's tricks?
[08:57] <diplo> Not bad ta
[08:57] <diplo> Sorry, had phones and 4 msn messages pop up as I logged in
[08:57] <diplo> Power failure at headoffice, taken down everything
[08:57] <diplo> Yourself MooDoo ?
[08:57] <MooDoo> diplo: powers fine ;) :p
[08:57] <diplo> heh
[08:58] <MooDoo> but I know what that's like...booo
[09:06] <diplo> Got a VM saying unknown ( in accessible )
[09:06] <diplo> :/ - this is going to be fun
[09:09] <MooDoo> diplo: oh they are the best
[09:10] <DJones> Morning all
[09:12] <MooDoo> morning DJones
[09:13] <DJones> Hey MooDoo
[09:22] <MooDoo> hows it going DJones ?
[09:24] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Get Out Your Guitar Day! \m/
[09:24] <DJones> Not bad, had to dodge round a major car crash on the way to  work, 4 police cars, a couple of ambulances & 3 fire engines arriving as I went past
[09:27] <MooDoo> JamesTait: Does my guitar hero one count?
[09:27] <JamesTait> MooDoo, definitely!
[09:29] <DJones> Yay its supposed to snow today & overnight
[09:29] <JamesTait> It's absolutely tipping it down here now.
[09:30] <DJones> Dry at the minute, but supposed to get wetter & colder, turning to snow with 5-10 cm predicted
[09:30] <dogmatic69_> snow \o/
[09:30] <DJones> With that in mind, it'll probably be a heatwave
[09:30] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:30] <dogmatic69_> sup bigcalm
[09:31] <bigcalm> Snow, but then it's down
[09:31] <DJones> I like this website http://uk.hardware.info/productgroup/18/laptopstablets Looks good for chosing laptops based on detailed spec's
[09:32] <bigcalm> Outside temp is 1.8C. Nothing is sticking, it's just horribly wet
[09:32] <bigcalm> Tell a lie, it's starting to stick to my rather frozen car
[09:32] <bigcalm> Are you surviving in TF4?
[09:34] <MartijnVdS> Team Fortress?
[09:38] <bigcalm> Ah, it's sticking to everything now :)
[09:44] <MooDoo> just rain where I am.
[09:44] <MartijnVdS> clear skies & sun here
[09:44] <DJones> bigcalm: Slowly narrowing down the choices for a laptop, currently looking at the Lenovo & an MSI, only trouble is the MSI keyboard looks to be US format, can't quite tell on the Lenovo
[09:45] <MooDoo> DJones: aren't the lenovo screens a bit small, can you get 15' ones?
[09:45] <bigcalm> MSI? I didn't know they did anything but mobos
[09:45] <DJones> MSI http://uk.hardware.info/productinfo/196050/msi-gp60-2od-037nl#tab:specifications
[09:46] <DJones> Lenovo http://uk.hardware.info/productinfo/195744/lenovo-ideapad-y510p#tab:photos Its a specific version, I can only find one of them though
[09:46] <MooDoo> DJones: ubuntu as the os?
[09:46] <DJones> It will have, but will need Windows for work
[09:46] <DJones> Both look to be the same spec
[09:47] <DJones> apart from a Nvidia 740/745
[09:47] <MartijnVdS> don't do nvidia!
[09:47] <MartijnVdS> ask bigcalm :)
[09:47] <DJones> Sorry, 755
[09:47] <bigcalm> Heh
[09:47] <DJones> I thought that was pretty much working now
[09:48] <bigcalm> Pretty much
[09:48] <bigcalm> Time for me to do a site deployment and ignore IRC for a bit
[09:48] <MartijnVdS> hope it doesn't break on kernel bugfix though
[09:48] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: good luck :)
[09:48] <bigcalm> Ta :)
[09:52] <diddledan> MartijnVdS: I copied you and ordered a gps unit for one of my pis
[09:52] <diddledan> supreme accuracy ntp ftw
[09:52] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: yay :)
[09:53] <diddledan> I'm thinking of building a wallclock run off it too
[09:53] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: I have a custom kernel (with a "pps-gpio" driver), because the user-space solution doesn't work
[09:54] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: and you need to rebuild the ntp package with pps-tools (or utils?) installed, so it has some PPS .h file, and actually builds PPS support
[09:55] <popey> bigcalm: you have snow!?
[09:55] <popey> we just have rain and wind ☹
[09:55] <MooDoo> popey: what's the flooding like where you are?  are you affected?
[09:55] <MooDoo> is anyone here affected?
[09:55] <diddledan> wet and widdly here, too
[09:55] <diddledan> but I'm not far from popey so that makes sense
[09:56] <popey> my house is apparently 500m from flood risk
[09:56] <MooDoo> oh crap
[09:56] <diddledan> eep
[09:56] <popey> but it's not rising
[09:56] <MooDoo> small mercies then
[09:56] <popey> my back garden floods a bit, but only an inch or so
[10:00] <popey> http://popey.com/webcam/
[10:00] <popey> rain and wind
[10:00] <MooDoo> and grey very grey
[10:01] <brobostigon> good morning, boys and girls.
[10:05] <MooDoo> morning brobostigon
[10:05] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[10:08] <directhex> yucky weather
[10:08] <directhex> at least the trains are running better than yesterday
[10:08] <MooDoo> directhex: everywhere :(
[10:13] <popey> haha, bbc news reporters standing in rain
[10:15] <MooDoo> oh the working at home life ;)
[10:17] <foobarry> getting my back fence ripped out today
[10:17] <foobarry> must be muddy business
[10:28] <ali1234> we've got rain gardens
[10:30] <JamesTait> Oh yuck, it's snowing heavily here now. :(
[10:31] <MooDoo> where are you JamesTait ?
[10:31] <directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9fhxa8yFb0 ?
[10:31] <JamesTait> Only just down the road from you, MooDoo - Derby.
[10:32] <diddledan> I need milk but it's raining :-(
[10:32] <MooDoo> JamesTait: thought so which is why i was confused as it's bloomin raining here
[10:32] <MartijnVdS> directhex: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0844471/
[10:32] <JamesTait> MooDoo, it was here 15 minutes ago.
[10:33] <MooDoo> stupi weather
[10:34] <popey> Interesting, since when did wikipedia have "pending review" for page edits? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shirley_Temple&action=history
[10:34] <MartijnVdS> they've had it for a while I think, especially on often-vandalized pages
[10:34] <bashrc> pending review by who?
[10:35] <diddledan> bashrc: teh reviewers :-p
[10:35] <MartijnVdS> bashrc: the Great Wikipedia Censorship Board
[10:35] <bashrc> I didn't think wikipedia had any official censors
[10:35] <diddledan> bashrc: I want to know who reviews the reviewers
[10:36] <bashrc> make a bad change, someone else reverts it
[10:36] <diddledan> make a good change, someone else reverts it
[10:36] <diddledan> democracy in action
[10:36] <bashrc> :)
[10:36] <bashrc> I had that happen plenty of times.  That's why I gave up making wikipedia edits
[10:37] <diddledan> I hate the [citation required] crud they insist on plastering everywhere but not as everywhere as it could be
[10:37]  * popey bookmarks "Ain't no party like a Pyongyang party cuz a Pyongyang party is ABSOLUTELY MANDATORY!"
[10:38] <bashrc> does mandatory parties mean mandatory beer and cake?
[10:38] <diddledan> I sometimes feel like being an ass and plastering [citation required] on every statement everywhere
[10:38] <diddledan> just to get them to realise how pointless the damned thing is
[10:38] <bashrc> mandate all the things!
[10:41] <shauno> diddledan: this is my favourite one of those; http://cl.ly/image/2v2V0t2g3U1w
[10:41] <shauno> I love the way it's just floating in the middle of nowhere
[10:42] <diddledan> lol
[10:43] <diddledan> see even on that screencap you've got at least three other citation needed spots that haven't been highlighted
[10:43] <diddledan> each of those equations should be required to be cited
[10:44] <diddledan> who decides what needs to be cited and what doesn't? if there is noone to decide on that then _everything_ must be cited!
[10:44] <ali1234> i don't see how anyone who isn't an editor can complain about wikipedia
[10:45] <shauno> I edited ww2 once.  does that count?
[10:45] <ali1234> it is unarguably more useful than print encyclopedias and you are getting it for nothing
[10:45] <diddledan> excuse me, but I like sitting on this tall horse
[10:46] <ali1234> if they make it easy for anyone to edit it then people moan about it being full of unsourced information
[10:46] <ali1234> and if they make it hard to edit people complain about the bureaucracy
[10:47] <diddledan> citation required there methinks
[10:52] <shauno> looking at my edits on wp, most of them are either 'repair formatting' or 'minor grammar'.  I guess I don't have much to contribute
[10:53] <ali1234> i wasn't specifically talking about anyone in particular
[10:53] <ali1234> i just see a lot of whinging from people and they can't all be editors
[10:53] <ali1234> same goes for all the people who complain about the debian init thing
[10:54] <ali1234> they don't like it when someone like shuttleworth just decides for everyone, and they don't like the slow democratic method either
[10:54] <ali1234> so you can't win
[10:54] <popey> fair
[10:54] <popey> I wasn't complaining btw, about the wikipedia review thing ☻
[10:55] <popey> just surprised to see it, figured it was new
[10:55] <ali1234> i've not heard of it either
[10:55] <ali1234> it seems reasonable
[10:55] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:55] <popey> yeah
[10:55] <ali1234> should prevent edit wars where the page is in constant flux, at least
[10:55] <ali1234> or at least cut it down
[10:56] <shauno> it should say on the page, a padlock near the top that tells you which policy its under
[10:57] <popey> that would attract people to pages without padlocks
[10:57] <popey> awww, snow is just north of m4, none here
[10:57] <ali1234> trolls have bots anyway
[10:59] <shauno> I dont' mean hypothetically, I mean that's the currency policy
[11:00] <shauno> eg, your https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_Temple - there's a silver padlock on the top-right, below the search field.  that means that edits from new or unregistered users will go through review
[11:02] <MooDoo> It's snowing
[11:02] <ali1234> yes
[11:02] <ali1234> big flakes
[11:04] <brobostigon> it just rain here, no snow yet.
[11:04] <Laney> nice
[11:04] <Laney> won't settle though
[11:04] <MooDoo> I think I'll announce it on facebook, no one has windows who's on there :D
[11:05] <MooDoo> Laney: yup far too wet
[11:15] <diddledan> MooDoo: I'm on OS X, does that count?
[11:17] <MooDoo> diddledan: you should be shot sir ;)
[11:18] <shauno> several times a day
[11:21] <bigcalm> Is there an easy way to watch hdd activity on a server?
[11:21] <directhex> iotop?
[11:22] <bigcalm> directhex: that's a start, thanks :)
[11:23] <shauno> what's one thing I wish linux had from osx, fsevents
[11:25] <MartijnVdS> shauno: like inotify?
[11:26] <MartijnVdS> shauno: check incron, and/or inotify-{tools,hookable}
[11:27] <shauno> is there an easy way to get inotify to just dump everything?
[11:29] <bigcalm> I really wish I could install gkrellm2 on a client's server. So much useful information in one place
[11:31] <popey> why can't you?
[11:31] <bigcalm> Oh, maybe munin is an option
[11:32] <bigcalm> Anybody here used munin?
[11:33] <popey> can you not just run gkrellm as your user?
[11:33] <MartijnVdS> shauno: everything?
[11:34] <bigcalm> popey: could do. I have to justify installing stuff on their servers. I think they might prefer something like munin
[11:34] <MartijnVdS> an SNMP daemon! They can't object to that
[11:35] <MartijnVdS> Write a simple "Pass" script to get out the variables you need (part of snmpd's configuration) -> done!
[11:35] <shauno> MartijnVdS: on osx, if I run fs_usage with no arguements, it'll just start listing every single open/close/read/stat/etc system-wide
[11:35] <shauno> obviously you can narrow it down a bit from there, but this is oddly handy when you want to know why your disk is still awake
[11:35] <MartijnVdS> shauno: I assume those tools can do that too
[13:02] <dwatkins> bigcalm: yep - http://i.imgur.com/aB2nbxA.jpg
[13:02] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: is that the bitcoin price? 8-)
[13:02] <dwatkins> I quite like munin for the monitoring you can do of memory usage, disk space etc. but it doesn't do alerts afaik, nagios does, iirc
[13:02] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: haha no, temperature from a USB sensor
[13:03] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: cool :)
[13:03] <dwatkins> lower image is from here: http://www.yr.no/place/United_Kingdom/Scotland/Edinburgh/hour_by_hour.html
[13:04] <dwatkins> it's really useful, I have two monitors connected to that RPi now, so I renamed it to raspberrytau.corp.whereiwork.com
[13:04] <shauno> 26º is cool?
[13:04] <dwatkins> shauno: I think it's about 2 degress out, but at least it's useful for comparing with its own results
[13:04] <MartijnVdS> shauno: °, not º ;)
[13:05] <bigcalm> dwatkins: great. I shall play with it on my own server at some point
[13:05] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: what's the difference? Is one for navigation, the other for temperature?
[13:05] <shauno> I may need a magnifying glass, I can't see the difference  lol
[13:05] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: no, one is
[13:05] <MartijnVdS> U+00BA º masculine ordinal indicator
[13:05] <MartijnVdS> mine is
[13:05] <dwatkins> bigcalm: I have one on here too that does the other stuff, in case you're curious... http://edinburgh.piku.org.uk/munin/localdomain/localhost.localdomain/index.html
[13:05] <dwatkins> (yes, I know, I never set the domain properly)
[13:06] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: gesundheit
[13:06] <MartijnVdS> Mine is U+00B0 DEGREE SIGN
[13:06] <dwatkins> I'm puzzled as to how I get exactly 1 eth0 error each day, though.
[13:07] <dwatkins> writing plugins for munin is fairly easy, which is handy
[13:08] <shauno> MartijnVdS: interesting.  I haven't rewrote my keymap on this one, so I'm not sure why that'd be there
[13:08] <bigcalm> dwatkins: my goodness, that's a lot of wonderful information :)
[13:09] <dwatkins> bigcalm: yeah, it needs tidying up a little, but it's really useful to see it all
[13:09] <MartijnVdS> shauno: to quote wikipedia:
[13:09] <MartijnVdS> shauno: The masculine ordinal indicator U+00BA (º) is often confused with the degree sign U+00B0 (°), which looks very similar in many fonts and is available on Italian and Spanish keyboard layout. The degree sign is a uniform circle and is never underlined, while the letter o may be oval or elliptical and have a varying stroke width. The letter o may also be underlined.
[13:10] <dwatkins> "In written languages, an ordinal indicator is a letter, or group of letters, following a numeral denoting that it is an ordinal number, rather than a cardinal number."
[13:10] <MartijnVdS> like "st" in "1st"
[13:11] <dwatkins> I had to switch to simple.wikipedia.org to get a good description... "Ordinal numbers (or ordinals) are numbers that show something's order, for example: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th."
[13:11] <shauno> okay, silly question, which one is ˚?
[13:11] <dwatkins> I prefer the German way of just adding a dot, although it might be confused with the end of a sentence.
[13:11] <MartijnVdS> shauno: that's another one!
[13:11] <shauno> (it's a deadkey that I can slap on top of letters, ala o̊)
[13:11] <shauno> fun
[13:12] <MartijnVdS> shauno: U+02DA RING ABOVE
[13:12] <shauno> aha, I see another one, °
[13:12] <MartijnVdS> shauno: or U+030A COMBINING RING ABOVE
[13:12] <MartijnVdS> shauno: paste in the "find" box of gucharmap
[13:12] <shauno> sorry, I shouldn't be asking you, but I can't tell the difference between them  lol
[13:13] <dwatkins> So much character.
[13:13] <MartijnVdS> very codepoint
[13:14] <shauno> hm, that'll be fun.  so on my mac, altfr-shift-8 is degrees and altgr-0 is this ordinal.  on work machine, altgr-0 is degrees and altgr-shift-8 does nothing
[13:17] <shauno> MartijnVdS, almost unrelated, how come it's you that notices this every single time?
[13:18] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Good eyes ;)
[13:49] <dwatkins> shauno: how is your work machine different? Different region keyboard?
[13:51] <shauno> the keymap I use on the mac (us-international) doesn't exist on XP.  I've been writing my own, which gets refined over time as I find things I've missed
[13:54] <dwatkins> ah yes, I use an Apple keyboard on my PC at home, and keep confusing the @ and " keys
[13:54] <shauno> oh that's barely the start of it.  I like to have all my deadkeys where I'm used to them too
[13:55] <shauno> (which is why I use us-international instead of the GB layout - it has a whole lot more diacritics on deadkeys)
[13:56] <diddledan> random: bsd network interfaces have a "PERFORMNUD" flag - I'm left wondering why my interfaces would want to perform nude
[13:57] <shauno> I remember looking into that, it's something todo with neighbour discovery
[13:57] <shauno> if you disable it, ipv6 breaks in more ways than you can keep track of
[14:01] <dwatkins> those keys aren't dead, they're very much alive....
[14:04] <shauno> :)  well, silly things like the GB layout has ç on altgr-C.  I use ţ more than ç, and us-int has ¸as a deadkey
[14:08] <shauno> it seems really nit-picky, but being able to spell people's names correctly scores brownie points. Łukasz might be used to Lukasz, but he'll appreciate the difference
[14:12] <popey> given  Ł is pronounced W, it kinda matters ☻
[14:13] <ali1234> there are people named woo-kas?
[14:14] <shauno> turned out he can't type it properly either, because he's in our australian office, so doesn't have those keys either.  but it won't stop me trying
[14:14] <shauno> the sz is a 'sh'
[14:14] <popey> yeah, Wukash
[14:15] <popey> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C5%81ukasz has a handy audio clip
[14:15] <shauno> I can't pronounce it without sounding like I'm aping Connery.  which is why I <3 email
[14:15] <ali1234> how does stuff get transliterated in such weird ways?
[14:15] <popey> w and l sound a lot alike
[14:15] <foobarry> or wookiee
[14:16] <ali1234> ok, how did "wing" get transliterated into "nguyen"?
[14:16] <foobarry> is that how you pronounce nguyen?
[14:16] <ali1234> alledgedly
[14:16] <popey> it sounds like it
[14:16] <popey> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nguyen_(northern_dialect).ogg
[14:16] <popey> take the g away and it sounds much more like win(g)
[14:17] <ali1234> it's madness
[14:17] <ali1234> we should just teach kids unicode in nursery
[14:17] <popey> haha
[14:18] <ali1234> imagine how long the poster would have to be
[14:18] <popey> sophie uses unicode pile of poo a lot ☻
[14:18] <shauno> sz makes sense to me.  it'd be š in slovak, and putting š into sz seems as logical as the germans putting ü into ue
[14:18] <MartijnVdS> popey: in Cryptonomicon, there's a character named "John Nguyen" who wants to be called "John Wayne"
[14:19] <ali1234> n'wayne is actually pretty close to the ogg ^
[14:26] <shauno> always fun finding letters you simply can't pronounce
[14:26] <ali1234> pretty much all the sounds exist in english somewhere
[14:27] <andylockran> hey guys
[14:27] <ali1234> sometimes only when you combine two words though
[14:27] <andylockran> anyone know the software that powered ubuntu brainstorm when it was runing?
[14:27] <andylockran> *running
[14:28] <ali1234> wasn't it basically a stack exchange clone?
[14:28] <shauno> one I'm constantly hung up on is ť, which doesn't appear to be in english - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_palatal_stop
[14:34] <shauno> andylockran: it appears to be a module called qa-poll on drupal.  apparently it used to be at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-qa-website-devel/ubuntu-qa-website/trunk
[14:34] <shauno> I don't see it anymore, but you might be able to go dumpster-diving through old revisions, or figure out who better to ask from there?
[14:55] <mapps> hey does anyone ever / has anyon ever had any success trying to recover data off damaged hdds? ive read plenty and tried from time to time but get nowhere:)
[15:01] <diplo> mapps I've been doing it recently
[15:02] <diplo> All depends on how bad it is, dding the drive is the best thing to try fierst and work from a image
[15:04] <mapps> i guess quite damaged
[15:04] <mapps> they make the ticking sound
[15:09] <MartijnVdS> consider the data lost
[15:10] <mapps> yea
[15:10] <mapps> i thought so
[15:11] <mapps> unless i could replace the ctual electronics from a simlar drive
[15:11] <mapps> so no:)
[15:15] <dwatkins> My brother shorted-out a drive once (250 GB IDE HDD), we took the board from an identical drive and fitted it onto his broken one, but something internal must have been shorted as well, as it wasn't recognised by the PC.
[15:15] <dwatkins> He had used the wrong 3-pin power connector for the enclosure (he has a camera with a very similar plug, but where the +5 volts is on a different pin)
[15:16] <dwatkins> I suspect ticking is more likely an issue with the read head, though.
[15:17] <mapps> ah that sucks
[15:17] <mapps> i have an old laptop hdd where the pins are bent
[15:17] <mapps> basically ended up bending them when i had to remove it..couldnt get it out..been tryng to straighten them out heh
[15:18] <dwatkins> at least if it's just the pins, you could (in theory) replace the entire connectgor.
[15:21] <mapps> hm yea
[15:22] <shauno> they're usually quite easy to straighten if you can find a 2mm header that's much shorter (a lot less pins wide).  it's easier to tease them row-by-row like that
[15:24] <mapps> 2mm header?
[15:26] <shauno> I mean like the plug that's meant to go in there, but nowhere near the full width
[15:27] <shauno> it's difficult to straighten them using the right plug because you've messed up the spacing.  if you can find (*hint*hacksaw*hint*) one with a lot less pins, you can go at it peicemeal
[15:28] <diplo> mapps: The one I did recently ticked, I used to copy stuff from it after letting it get freezing cold
[15:28] <mapps> hm
[15:29] <diplo> At the time it was -2 outside, I'd take it out of the caddy it was in, lean it against the window and then put it back in for a while copy more files
[15:30] <mapps> yea
[15:30] <mapps> ive heard people say putting a damaged hdd in the freezer can help
[15:46] <foobarry> never worked for me
[15:46] <foobarry> also the hit with hammer trick
[15:47] <shauno> presuming you tried the freezer before the hammer
[15:47] <foobarry> yes
[15:47] <foobarry> :P
[15:47] <foobarry> hammer made me feel better though
[15:47] <diddledan> hitting it with a hammer surely can't be a good idea?!
[15:48] <diddledan> unless your aim is for data destruction
[15:48] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: sometimes it helps to hit it on the side, to get the platters spinning again
[15:48] <shauno> it sounds like it's intended for when you're out of good ideas, and you're moving on to simply .. ideas
[15:48] <foobarry> my friend who's disk it was asked his prayer group to pray for it. he didn't tell them that we had already tried the hammer thing
[15:48] <diddledan> I'm not sure divine intervention works on hard discs
[15:49] <MartijnVdS> try dousing it in spaghetti sauce. His Noodly Appendage might touch it
[15:49] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: ^
[15:49] <foobarry> i've prayed for servers many times
[15:49] <diddledan> MartijnVdS: yeah pastafarian may help
[15:49] <shauno> there's also quite a divide between a tap to unstick stuck stuff, and venting your frustration with a ballpeen
[16:48] <diddledan> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/fin-wearable-ring-make-your-palm-as-numeric-keypad-and-gesture-interface
[16:51] <diddledan> the problem with that is it's limited to the sort of things you can gesture by being attached at the base of your thumb
[16:51] <diddledan> I want a full-hand-based gesture control that works anywhere
[16:55] <shauno> tried that leap motion?
[16:55] <diddledan> I want to get one just to play with
[16:56] <diddledan> maplin were doing them fairly well-priced at about 50-60 a while ago
[17:02] <ali1234> they're not very good
[17:03] <ali1234> it can recognise when your hand is open or closed but only if it is at the exact right orientation
[17:03] <ali1234> if it's not, it can only track the position
[17:04] <dutchie> repost from my twitter: Good manufacturer/place to buy disks? Probably will end up buying both SSD and spinny for OS/apps vs media archive.
[17:04] <dutchie> advice welcome :)
[17:05] <ali1234> i just bought a SSD, supposedly the delivery driver is 15 minutes away
[17:07] <diddledan> dutchie: I also have that query for a zfs nas - I'm thinking of building a beast of a nas with both spinny for long-term storage and 1xssd for cache (read) and another ssd for high-speed log (write)
[17:07] <dutchie> you have clearly put more thought into this than i have :)
[17:08] <diddledan> I'm thinking 3 or 4 HDDs at about 3TB
[17:08] <dutchie> i got as far as "oh dear i think my current ones are poorly" and "btrfs sounds like fun"
[17:08] <diddledan> lol
[17:09] <diddledan> I don't think btrfs is as far along the lifecycle as zfs, so I'm thinking it doesn't do the cache and log that zfs gives you out-of-the-box
[17:10] <diddledan> (if you have enough discs, that is)
[17:21] <dutchie> diddledan: yeah, i'm not so fussed about hardcore log/cache etc, something more linux native is better for me i think
[17:24] <diddledan> oops
[17:24] <diddledan> didn't mean to do that
[17:25] <diddledan> dutchie: I'm only doing the hardcore for geek cred :-p
[17:27] <dutchie> haha
[17:38] <dwatkins> I used to have multiple USB hard drives attached to a netbook for storage, I kept having to buy more so I ended up buying a Synology NAS which manages all sorts of things for me.
[17:41] <dutchie> maybe i should just get a nas or something like that
[17:41] <dutchie> but it seems like a waste when i have a case with room for 6 disks
[17:46] <awilkins> Pop quiz hotshot : Your house is on fire. Do you i) die horribly trying to tote out your huge tower case or ii) Conveniently save all your data with your nice NAS-with-a-suitcase-handle-on-top
[17:47] <bigcalm> awilkins: iii) you already have off-site backups
[17:47] <awilkins> Well, there is that
[17:47] <bigcalm> :D
[17:47] <awilkins> I don't
[17:48] <bigcalm> You should?
[17:48] <awilkins> Except for things I shove into Git repos
[17:48] <awilkins> And Dropbox
[17:48] <awilkins> Which is pretty much most of my work
[17:48] <bigcalm> I use rdiff-backup to sync my parent's stuff to here. And visa-versa
[17:48] <awilkins> I have one external drive that receives duplicity backups
[17:49] <bigcalm> Not off-site though?
[17:49] <awilkins> No
[17:50] <awilkins> Should probably address that. Damn.
[17:50] <bigcalm> In the case of a fire, I still doubt you would stop to take anything. Just get out of the building
[17:50] <awilkins> The fire would probably be in my office anyway :-)
[17:54] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: please check if the firmware on that nAS is up to date, there have been reports of pwned Synology NASes
[17:54] <MartijnVdS> (that then mine bitcoins..)
[17:54] <awilkins> How disgustingly inefficient
[17:55] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: sure, but if you have a million pwned devices, 20khash/device starts to become useful
[18:05] <diddledan> a meelion?!
[18:08] <diddledan> any fans of weebl n bob? their creator has a kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/weebl/the-savlonic-album
[18:11] <MartijnVdS> heh @ toiletcam of weebl
[18:15] <mapps> still a lot of places flooded in the UK hey
[18:15] <mapps> 800people in Berkshire are out of their houses
[18:17] <awilkins> Sinkholes forming in the middle of motorways : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-26143100
[18:18] <awilkins> #floodageddon
[18:18] <mapps> must be awful
[18:18] <brobostigon> good drum lesson, :)
[18:18] <mapps> having to leave your house..everything ruined
[18:18] <mapps> then fighting with the insurance co for payouts
[18:18] <awilkins> I remember it just flooding our foundations when I was younger, it was pretty weird
[18:19] <awilkins> The house smelt a bit for a while
[18:19] <awilkins> But nothing like this
[18:19] <mapps> yea
[18:19] <mapps> this is quite bad hey
[18:19] <mapps> Berkshire / Somerset / Chertsey
[18:19] <mapps> and i think reading has issues too?
[18:19] <awilkins> Of course, no wonder Darling Dave says "Money no object" for flood relief - all Tory heartlands
[18:20] <mapps> lol
[18:20] <mapps> talks cheap though
[18:20] <mapps> have they actually done much..
[18:20] <mapps> seemed like photo ops was all it was about
[18:22] <awilkins> All that talk of dredging
[18:22] <awilkins> Doesn't really address problem which is run-off
[18:22] <mapps> well
[18:22] <awilkins> Dredging guarantees that you have to do more dredging
[18:22] <mapps> maybe if they werent building houses EVERYWHERE
[18:23] <awilkins> So it's a nice pork barrel
[18:23] <awilkins> Planting trees - that fixes the problem
[18:23] <mapps> so they wouldnt be building houses on these areas likely to flood
[18:23] <mapps> but instead ..build everywhere nw eh
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: talk to some of our (Dutch) civil engineers about that :)
[18:44] <shauno> that's why the dutch scare me.  the only thing standing between them, and this, is that they're too nice; http://blog.modernmechanix.com/north-sea-drainage-project-to-increase-area-of-europe/
[18:44] <MartijnVdS> shauno: also price
[18:44] <MartijnVdS> shauno: we do have these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Works
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> shauno: and these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_board
[18:47] <mapps> i dont get it..somehow cgiirc wont work anymore just says error mkdir permission denied..ive checked the permissions on the files or cgiiirc which are in a folder in the apache htdocs
[18:47] <mapps> i even made them all 777 just to test and still wont work
[18:47] <MartijnVdS> mapps: 777 is never a good idea
[18:47] <mapps> agree
[18:47] <MartijnVdS> mapps: which directory is it trying to create? Can it get there? (are all its parents at least +x for the user it's running as)
[18:47] <mapps> but this was just to test - as i couldnt think why it doesnt work
[18:47] <mapps> and with 777 surely it should work?
[18:48] <mapps> still doesnt work now
[18:48] <mapps> im not sure tbh MartijnVdS
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> mapps: some apps are smart and check for 777 and fail :)
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> mapps: you should check that then :)
[18:48] <mapps> how lol
[18:48] <mapps> i cant see any log or anythng
[18:49] <MartijnVdS> No apache errorlog?
[18:49] <mapps> yea
[18:49] <mapps> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2204469&page=2
[18:49] <mapps> [Sat Feb 8 21:46:24 2014] CGI:IRC Error: Mkdir error: Permission denied (main::load_socket 1252)
[18:49] <mapps> [Sat Feb 08 21:53:56.012874 2014] [access_compat:error] [pid 10231:tid 2954840896]
[18:49] <mapps> [client 81.94.213.24:50862] AH01797: client denied by server configuration: /usr/local/apache/htdocs/testing/modules/
[18:50] <mapps> and another 2 about client denied 1 saying .htaccess which i dont think is related ..and 1 about cgiirc.config  but i couldnt see anything in there
[18:50] <mapps> and it worked before then sudden;ly stopped working
[18:52] <shauno> MartijnVdS: interesting reading.  especially that they already have long-term plans into 2100/2200
[18:52] <MartijnVdS> shauno: best way to stay prepared
[18:55] <MartijnVdS> shauno: I pay tax to this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoogheemraadschap_van_Rijnland
[18:57] <shauno> does it worry you that your zombie plan has to include lowland evacuation?
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> shauno: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollandic_Water_Line
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> shauno: we're prepared
[18:57] <mapps> =[
[19:38]  * MartijnVdS Ubuntufies his old phone (Galaxy Nexus)
[19:38] <daftykins> :o
[19:43] <MartijnVdS> I'm not using it anyway,so why not ;)
[19:46] <daftykins> i have a friend in the US who has a telco branded one that's suffering from age
[19:46] <daftykins> had yours begun to flake out at all?
[19:47] <MartijnVdS> display has dark lines in it
[19:47] <MartijnVdS> but it's fine otherwise
[19:47] <MartijnVdS> and with "dark lines" I mean some horizontal lines are darker (not black) than they're supposed to be
[19:48] <daftykins> hrmm
[19:50] <MartijnVdS> it now has a green android on a purple (sorry, "aubergine") background
[19:50] <MartijnVdS> and a spinny thing
[19:50] <MartijnVdS> popey: how long does that usually take? Minutes? Hours?
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> ooh it looks more done now
[19:56] <popey> ☻
[19:56] <popey> 10 mins?
[19:57] <MartijnVdS> popey: yeah, took about 10 minutes, but now it's stuck again
[19:57] <MartijnVdS> popey: "Disable recovery flash?"
[19:57] <popey> no idea
[19:57] <popey> ask in #ubuntu-touch ☻
[19:57] <popey> i dont have a maguro
[19:57] <MartijnVdS> I will, thanks :)
[19:57] <popey> davmor2 may know
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> I think I only have 6 apps installed?
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> oh .. 9
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> but graphics are *laggy*
[20:16] <MartijnVdS> I like how sometimes, scrolling from the bottom brings up a back button, while other times it doesn't
[20:19] <popey> inside apps?
[20:19] <popey> thats going away, so no worries ☻
[20:19] <popey> the whole bottom toolbar will be merged with the top bar
[20:19] <MartijnVdS> uh.. how do you get somewhere else then?
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> Once I open an app, I can't get back to something else without that or turning the phone off and back on
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> which takes a lot of time
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> (note that I'm left-handed, which might impact usability of a right-handed interface for me)
[20:20] <popey> swipe in from the right
[20:20] <popey> or swipe in from the left
[20:20] <popey> right is like alt-tab, left brings out the launcher
[20:21] <popey> there should have been a welcome demo when you first started?
[20:21] <MartijnVdS> there was, but I think I clicked in the wrong place and it skipped after 2 slides
[20:22] <popey> there's only 4 slides
[20:22] <popey> right, left, top, bottom
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> swiping in from the right doesn't do a lot
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> app gets smaller, then goes back to original size
[20:25] <MartijnVdS> ah, I see how it works like alt-tab now
[20:25] <MartijnVdS> but my thumb isn't big enough to reach the right side :(
[20:29] <daftykins> hehe
[20:30] <MartijnVdS> let's say there's room for improvement ;)
[20:33] <daftykins> those don't even particularly sound like pleasant methods
[20:34] <MartijnVdS> I don't really use the big Ubuntu button on the desktop either.. I just use the 4 icons in the sidebar
[20:34] <MartijnVdS> (that I've put there ;))
[20:36] <daftykins> the times i've run liveCDs to get stuff done, typically running the disk utility program, i've found varying success from clicking dash -> then typing "disk"
[20:37] <daftykins> sometimes it wouldn't give the program at all
[20:37] <MartijnVdS> I use alt+F2 to run programs
[20:39] <daftykins> yeah, i always did do
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> what do you do now?
[20:39] <daftykins> but i'm not sure i know the name now
[20:39] <daftykins> well i don't actually run ubuntu desktop
[20:40] <daftykins> i think palimpset used to be the name
[20:40] <MartijnVdS> yeah
[20:40] <MartijnVdS> now it's just gnome-disks
[20:41] <daftykins> oh right
[20:41] <daftykins> but from what i understood, doesn't alt+f2 in unity run the dash bar anyway?
[20:41] <MartijnVdS> no, the windows key does that
[20:41] <MartijnVdS> alt+f2 is special
[20:42] <MartijnVdS> so special it's not even in the hotkey menu when you hold the windows key
[20:42] <daftykins> super :(
[21:05] <diddledan> is download.microsoft.com being ddosed?
[21:06] <diddledan> I'm getting pitiful speed downloading from there
[21:06] <diddledan> 25KB/s
[21:06] <diddledan> that's on a good second
[21:06] <diddledan> down to 10 now
[21:08] <brobostigon> it a microsoft service, so no doubt it has a will be ddos's at some point,
[21:08] <diddledan> chrome's telling me it's going to take over an hour to get 70MB downloaded
[21:14] <brobostigon> try something from a fast server like mirror.ox.ac.uk and compare
[21:17] <mapps> ugh
[21:19] <mapps> what would make cgiirc say mkdir error permissio denied? besides surely the files/folders not got right perms
[21:34] <mapps> hmm why does apache look to be running 4-5x when i do ps aux | grep http 0 4 as user apache 1 as root
[21:49] <daftykins> because that's how apache works :)
[21:49] <daftykins> multiple workers
[21:50] <mapps> yea
[21:50] <mapps> starts as root then forks
[21:50] <mapps> daftykins, can you look at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2204469&page=2
[21:50] <mapps> im just stuck ...
[21:50] <mapps> =]
[21:53] <daftykins> mapps: which user is apache running as? www-data?
[21:53] <mapps> apache is running as user apache
[21:53] <daftykins> wat
[21:53] <mapps> but im a bit confused - if you se my post daftykins  i changed the files and everything to 777 just for testing
[21:54] <daftykins> is this a manual apache install on non-ubuntu?
[21:54] <mapps> manual apache install on ubuntu
[21:54] <daftykins> ouch
[21:54] <mapps> apache 10229 0.0 0.8 18724 9036 ? S 19:40 0:00 /usr/local/apache/bin/httpd -k start
[21:54] <mapps> apache 10230 0.0 1.2 249384 12960 ? Sl 19:40 0:01 /usr/local/apache/bin/httpd -k start
[21:54] <mapps> apache 10231 0.0 1.5 255012 15376 ? Sl 19:40 0:01 /usr/local/apache/bin/httpd -k start
[21:54] <mapps> yea
[21:54] <daftykins> why not via packages?
[21:54] <mapps> but it did work before
[21:54] <mapps> just because i wanted to learn and be able to compile stuff manuallyu etc
[21:54] <daftykins> ah
[21:55] <mapps> cgiirc was working a few days back i restarted and now its not..and i cant figure out what exactly to do
[21:55] <daftykins> what i would guess is the user apache doesn't have writes to create whatever folder it's trying to create
[21:55] <daftykins> s/writes/rights/
[21:55] <mapps> i chownd the cgiirc dir (/usr/local/apache/htdocs/testing) yto apache
[21:55] <mapps> yea any ideas how to fix?
[21:55] <daftykins> can you confirm with ls -l in that path?
[21:56] <daftykins> use paste.ubuntu.com
[21:57] <mapps> error on there
[21:57] <mapps> il use pastebin
[21:58] <mapps> http://pastebin.com/p5FgixHb
[21:58] <mapps> and included the log down bottom
[21:58] <mapps> all i can find
[22:03] <daftykins> 'nogroup' doesn't seem right, isn't that a samba thing 0o
[22:05] <daftykins> i've got zero experience with CGI
[22:07] <mapps> hm
[22:08] <mapps> root@dimension:/usr/local/apache/htdocs/testing# groups apache
[22:08] <mapps> apache : nogroup
[22:08] <mapps> root@dimension:/usr/local/apache/htdocs/testing#
[22:08] <mapps> im out of ideas really..dunno how i screwed it up..it did work and id used it before
[22:08] <mapps> know of any alternatives to cgiirc?
[22:12] <daftykins> why aren't you just SSH'ing home?
[22:17] <mapps> i cant
[22:17] <mapps> id get in treouble using an ssh app at work
[22:19] <daftykins> but not IRC in general? :D
[22:20] <mapps> well
[22:20] <mapps> its less noticable if its threough the browser
[22:55] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: thanks for the heads-up, I don't have it directly accessible from the outside (except via apache on a server which has the synology mounted via NFS, and is only accessible from specific IP addresses), but will check.
[23:04] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: this looks interesting: http://www.securityfocus.com/archive/1/528543
[23:13] <ali1234> nouveau doesn't work with my new video card any better than it did with my old one
[23:14] <ali1234> in fact it's somewhat worse, since it now doesn't support multihead or even changing the resolution to something other than whatever mode it boots up in
[23:14] <bigcalm> ali1234: is that because you're using an ATI gfx card? ;)
[23:14] <ali1234> no, it's because i'm using a recent nvidia card
[23:42] <ali1234> i wish there was a proper devel metapackage or task
[23:56] <dogmatic69> My laptop screen hinge broke, any recommendations on a place that will sell replacements (acer aspire E1)
[23:58] <dogmatic69> found one on ebay for £9 so should do the trick