[00:00] <ochosi> Unit193: i actually think much of it is scriptable
[00:00] <ochosi> once you've done it once, it's not hard to do it the second time
[00:40] <sergio-br2> hello to everybody
[00:41] <sergio-br2> hey ochosi
[00:41] <sergio-br2> i did the merge request
[00:44] <Unit193> knome: You good with https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/staging/+packages ?
[00:44] <Unit193> (xubuntu-docs)
[00:45] <knome> without actually installing the package, looks good to me
[00:48] <Unit193> bug 1251332 look good?
[00:49] <knome> i would prefer a separate bug report (since we're not changing just that), but it's good for me if you don't wish to file a new bug
[00:51] <Unit193> Hmm, thought we did on the last one, but will try to remember.
[00:52] <Unit193> We don't already have one for the panel, right?
[00:53] <ochosi> sergio-br2: oh cool
[00:53] <knome> unless there is one linked in -t-features, i don't think so
[00:53] <Unit193> Bummer. :P
[00:53] <ochosi> not that i know of (panel)
[00:53] <bluesabre> o.o
[00:54] <ochosi> what are you looking at, bluesabre ? :)
[00:54] <Unit193> bluesabre: Yeeees?
[00:54] <ochosi> sergio-br2: thanks merged (i already reviewed the icons from that branch yesterday ;))
[00:54] <bluesabre> hey folks :D
[00:54] <sergio-br2> ok, thanks
[00:55] <sergio-br2> ochosi, version 0.4 now?
[00:55] <ochosi> sergio-br2: well, i'll do version 0.4 once we have all 96px folders
[00:56] <ochosi> i just wanted everything we got to get uploaded into trusty before b1
[00:56] <sergio-br2> how many weeks for b1?
[00:56] <ochosi> 2
[00:57] <ochosi> but we should get the artwork pkg ready asap
[00:57] <ochosi> since it's going to need a sponsor for uploading, we need all the extra time we can get
[00:58] <sergio-br2> i'l try to end this places96. But i'm without many time
[00:58] <ochosi> we can also divide the work if you want
[00:58] <ochosi> just tell me what you can do until when (approximately)
[00:59] <ochosi> there aren't even that many folders missing
[00:59] <ochosi> (trash is less important, so is the bookmarks-icon
[01:00] <ochosi> so basically we need: recent, remote, drag-accept, publicshare, templates and maybe savedsearch
[01:00] <ochosi> the rest are optional
[01:02] <sergio-br2> ok
[01:06] <sergio-br2> ochosi, you can take to do folder-drag-accept.svg ?
[01:07] <sergio-br2> i think the others i can finish, it's just copy and past
[01:07] <Unit193> knome: When you want the second linked to?
[01:07] <knome> Unit193, hum?
[01:08]  * knome runs Unit193 -vv
[01:08] <ochosi> sergio-br2: ok, let's do it like that
[01:09] <Unit193> knome: xfce4-panel.
[01:09] <knome> Unit193, linked to what?
[01:10] <knome> Unit193, i guess the answer is: as soon as you are ready
[01:10] <Unit193> Bugged/linked/sponsored/etc.
[01:10] <knome> ochosi, any reason to hold?
[01:11] <Unit193> Have someone review?
[01:11] <Unit193> bluesabre: You up for it?
[01:11] <knome> Unit193, no, but can ask around
[01:12] <bluesabre> hm?
[01:12] <Unit193> Meh, if not then the sponsors review it anyway.
[01:12] <Unit193> Anywho, /detach
[01:12] <bluesabre> what?
[01:12] <knome> Unit193, see, you need to increase verbosity, even bluesabre doesn't understand you :)
[01:12] <bluesabre> ehhhh!?
[01:13] <knome> Unit193, have fun meanwhile, and thanks for working on those
[01:14] <bluesabre> I'm aroundish, but if you need me to review something or package, let me know
[01:14]  * bluesabre was hoping Corsac had gotten the greeter into debian today
[01:14] <knome> bluesabre, Unit193 would like you to review the xfce4-panel package he's prepared
[01:15] <bluesabre> link?
[01:15] <knome> i don't have it handy, you should poke ochosi 
[01:15] <knome> but working as a team ++
[01:15] <bluesabre> :)
[01:16] <bluesabre> gotta go, bbl
[01:16] <ochosi> no reason to hold
[01:17] <ochosi> the link i have is this: https://unit193.net/xfce4-panel-4.10.0git-86a1b73.tar.bz2
[01:17] <ochosi> sergio-br2: ok, i've done folder-drag-accept, lemme know when you've finished yours ;)
[01:18] <sergio-br2> ok, thanks (fast!)
[01:18] <ochosi> well, it was a simple one
[01:28] <sergio-br2> tomorrow i'l try to finish this
[01:28] <sergio-br2> bye
[02:50] <Unit193> bluesabre: dget https://unit193.net/xfce/xfce4-panel_4.11.0~0.git20140209.86a1b73-0ubuntu1.dsc
[02:52] <Unit193> bluesabre: With https://unit193.net/xfce/changelog as a changelog.
[08:36] <Mirv> knome: hi, just checking if you need bug #1251332 (https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/staging/+files/xubuntu-docs_14.04.0.dsc) sponsored or if you'll handle it yourself when you're happy with first 14.04 docs upload? the sponsors are currently subscribed to the bugreport.
[09:49] <knome> Mirv, would like to get it sponsored :)
[09:51] <Mirv> knome: ok :) I'll see if I can further it, even though I don't have upload rights myself (except for Qt). my first patch pilot turn :)
[09:51] <knome> Mirv, cool, thanks :)
[09:52] <knome> we're in a bit of a pressure this cycle, our own uploaders are more or less MIA
[09:52] <knome> so we're both working to get more uploaders and doing sponsorships requests
[11:40] <bluesabre> knome: since we're lacking in uploads, should I go ahead and create packages with the branches we want merged and try to get them uploaded?
[11:41] <bluesabre> we can deal with putting the code into the branches later possibly
[11:41] <Unit193> bluesabre: Hello, see the links I gave?
[11:42] <bluesabre> Unit193: yes, getting ready to take my wife to work, will review them when I get back in a bit
[11:42] <Unit193> Great, have what I think may be bug text too.
[11:59] <knome> bluesabre, yes please, and if you are quick and are able to prepare them today, Mirv could be able to help :)
[12:03] <Mirv> bluesabre: knome: I've tested and prepared bzr134 of trunk now for upload
[12:04] <knome> Mirv, cheers
[12:22] <Unit193> knome: http://paste.openstack.org/show/3d0SV91ub8uxhSGBOejh ?
[12:23] <bluesabre> knome: won't be able to do it until tonight
[12:23] <bluesabre> but I'll make that my priority
[12:24] <knome> Unit193, wfm
[12:25] <knome> Unit193, also, see, "looks good"
[12:25] <knome> Unit193, thanks.
[12:25] <Unit193> Hmm?
[12:25] <knome> Unit193, bug 1251332
[12:26] <Unit193> Ah, yeah.  Saw that.
[12:27] <bluesabre> Unit193: how do I make pbuilder proceed when it is stupid? http://dpaste.com/1613526/
[12:27] <Unit193> bluesabre: sudo pbuilder update
[12:28] <Unit193> (or cheat and put a hook in. >_> )
[12:29] <bluesabre> that failed, so whats this about a hook?
[12:29] <knome> hah
[12:29] <Unit193> Whereever your hookdir is, use Dupdate with  apt-get update  in it, and chmod +x
[12:31] <Unit193> bluesabre: For trusty I'd presume?
[12:31] <bluesabre> yes
[12:41] <bluesabre> completely unfamiliar with this part of pbuilder
[12:41] <bluesabre> I'll have to take a look tonight
[12:42] <Unit193> Oh, didn't get it?
[12:42]  * bluesabre doesn't know what he's doing
[12:44] <bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
[12:47] <Unit193> knome: Not sure I'll be here for the meeting, but open action items, wouldn't it make more sense to #info so they don't get into the actions list?
[12:50] <Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/xfce4-panel/snapshot/+merge/206169 so hopefully I didn't do that too wrong, already know I put it in the wrong branch, but that's just a name.
[12:50] <Unit193> Mirv?
[12:59] <Mirv> Unit193: looking at bzr diff -r -2 debian | less, it's removing the last Ubuntu update's changes (changelog at minimum should be preserved, even if intentionally reverting the changes otherwise). otherwise debian/ looks good.
[13:00] <Mirv> Unit193: so maybe fix that, resubmit the proposal against lp:ubuntu/xfce4-panel instead. I set the commit message now in LP too, depending on how the to-be-uploader will like it.
[13:01] <Mirv> anyhow, I won't have time for that today, so maybe request that also so that it'll get visible at http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/index.html for some other patch pilot
[13:03] <Mirv> since it's a git snapshot, maybe a good idea to test in a PPA as well and get some "Approve" marks on the merge proposal (if possible)?
[13:04] <Unit193> We've been testing the git snapshots, this just brings in something else we're looking at.
[13:04] <Unit193> Thanks, missed that upload, merged the other changes.
[13:05] <Mirv> ok, goodness :) maybe a word on how it has been tested in the description too.
[13:05] <knome> Unit193, the point is that while they are open, they keep in the actions list. and if they aren't done, we will get to review them every week.
[13:06] <knome> Unit193, if something has to be postponed for a longer time, espeially if it's release-critical, it should be moved to the blueprints
[13:09]  * Unit193 wonders why the one in the repo b-deps on gnome-common...
[13:32] <Unit193> Mirv: Done, thanks.
[13:35] <knome> slickymaster-job, bluesabre: somebody working on the menulibre testcase?
[13:35] <Unit193> knome: Set you as reviewer for XPL ACK.
[13:37] <Unit193> For everyone that tested the git snapshot, might want to leave a comment/review.
[13:37] <ochosi> yup, already typing...
[13:38] <knome> ochosi, any reason not to ack technically?
[13:39] <Unit193> Because I did it and with bzr, so it's goooofed.
[13:39] <knome> Unit193, that's not what i asked :P
[13:39] <ochosi> knome: nope
[13:39] <knome> then went on an approved.
[13:40] <knome> *and
[13:40] <ochosi> sounds good
[13:40] <ochosi> then next we need the latest release of xfce4-indicator-plugin
[13:41] <ochosi> (and push either a release over that as bugfix or cherrypick the stuff from master that we need)
[13:42] <knome> Unit193, want to continue your winning streak?
[13:42] <Unit193> knome: Nope. :P
[13:42] <ochosi> this one should be easier though, as it's not a git-snapshot ;)
[13:42] <knome> Unit193, seriously, you've done really well, and we've got a lot of things moving
[13:43] <knome> of course, you decide if you don't want to do it
[13:43] <knome> but it would be a shame if we were stuck in the mud again :/
[13:45] <Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/14.04.0
[13:45] <knome> noticed from email notifications.
[13:45] <knome> that's great
[13:48] <Unit193> Actually, Debian vcs has most of it: http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-xfce/goodies/trunk/xfce4-indicator-plugin/debian/changelog?view=markup
[13:50] <ochosi> does that mean it'll be low-hanging fruit for you? ;)
[13:51] <Unit193> svn, but otherwise.
[13:54] <Unit193> Is there a point since we want newer than 2.2.0?
[13:54] <ochosi> yes
[13:54] <ochosi> feature-freeze
[13:54] <ochosi> we need a version that kinda works, so that we can push fixes even after FF
[13:55] <Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/staging/+packages xfce4-panel in there if you want the new one.
[13:55] <ochosi> woot, ff-gtk3?
[13:56] <Unit193> No, that's just a test from trunk.
[14:04] <Unit193> knome: Added FF to calendar.
[14:05] <Unit193> In case I'm not here, -1 to whiskermenu.
[14:09] <ochosi> Unit193: any specific reason why? (just curious)
[14:09] <ochosi> also, what does that mean wrt the proposed panel-layout?
[14:11] <Unit193> Well, it's fine for those that choose it, but it's more going to the new style that I'm not as fond of and don't really want to go (Gnome, Unity.)  It also seems a bit unbaked in areas, but perhaps that's just my perception of it.  It's not a big objection however, and I'm sure I'll get overridden anyway.
[14:12] <ochosi> Unit193: mkay, and the panel-layout?
[14:13] <Unit193> Now isn't it: | Applicationsmenu | Windowlist-plugin | Indicators | Systray | Clock | Actions button  ?
[14:15] <ochosi> pretty much
[14:15] <ochosi> i think there's also the workspace-switcher
[14:16] <Unit193> Right, there is.
[14:17] <Unit193> Sorting order = None, allow drag and drop basically does timestamps, but lets you move them too.
[14:18] <ochosi> you want DND in the windo-buttons?
[14:20] <brainwash> dnd is causes a glitch
[14:20] <brainwash> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10656
[14:20] <Unit193> Well, not saying that.  Just giving info, I like it.
[14:25] <ochosi> yup, the glitch is a bit annoying, let's not set it to DND by default
[14:39] <Unit193> Bleh, can't request a review from Ubuntu branches, LP messing up. :/
[14:53] <slickymaster-job> knome: elfy did say he would do the MenuLibre testcase
[14:54] <slickymaster-job> but in case he doesn't, I'll do it
[15:08] <Mirv> knome: Unit193: you possibly noticed already but I managed to have the xubuntu-docs uploaded
[15:08] <Unit193> Mirv: Yep, thanks muchly!
[15:09] <Mirv> np
[15:43] <knome> Mirv, thanks! :)
[15:45] <qwebirc914663> knome:  did you saw my answer reagrding MenuLibre?
[15:45] <knome> qwebirc914663, yep.
[15:45] <qwebirc914663> regarding ^^
[15:45] <knome> was just asking if anybody was on it
[15:45] <qwebirc914663> hey, what happened to my nick?!?!?!
[15:46] <knome> fail! :)
[15:46] <knome> /nick slickymaster-job
[15:46] <knome> that should do it
[15:46] <qwebirc914663> how I miss irssi ;(
[15:46] <knome> qwebirc914663, tell me about it :)
[16:59] <lderan> knome & elfy, I've got an autopilot Abiword test which checks to see if it is able to save files. Its not as nice as being able to click on specific buttons but we can check functionality which can be access with keyboard shortcuts \o/
[16:59] <slickymaster-job> that's great lderan
[17:42] <pleia2> knome: our slideshow broke
[18:52] <ochosi> i'll be 10 or 20min late for the meeting, sry
[18:52] <ochosi> brb
[18:53] <knome> pleia2, what?
[18:57] <pleia2> knome: our new plugins+themes got installed, but it broke our slideshow
[18:57] <knome> aha
[18:57] <knome> how?
[18:57] <pleia2> no more slideshow :)
[18:57] <knome> ...
[18:58] <knome> i don't understand! :)
[18:58] <knome> oh!
[18:58] <pleia2> it's missing!
[18:58] <knome> i understand!
[18:58] <pleia2> haha
[18:58] <knome> you're talking about the website
[18:58] <knome> not the installer
[18:58] <pleia2> yes
[18:58] <knome> that explains some...
[18:58] <pleia2> sorry :)
[18:58] <knome> np
[18:58] <pleia2> You have a flower delivery
[18:58] <pleia2> oooh, brb
[18:58] <knome> WOT!
[19:00] <knome> meh, seems like there are some other problems with the new plugin that works correctly elsewhere
[19:00]  * knome shrugs
[19:00] <knome> i will set up the new theme today
[19:00] <knome> let's see if the problem persist with that
[19:01] <knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
[19:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb 13 19:01:08 2014 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[19:01] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[19:01] <knome> so who's here for the meeting, and is somebody willing to chair?
[19:01] <jjfrv8> o/ can't chair, might not even be able to stay for whole thing
[19:01] <micahg_work> I'm here for the meeting, but can't chair
[19:02] <slickymaster-job> o/ for the meeting, not for chair it ;)
[19:02] <slickymaster-job> s/for/to
[19:03] <Noskcaj> o/ (but don't know how to chair)
[19:04] <knome> #topic Open action items from previous meeting
[19:05] <knome> #action ali1234 follows up on gtk3 indicator status
[19:05] <meetingology> ACTION: ali1234 follows up on gtk3 indicator status
[19:05] <knome> ali12341?
[19:05] <knome> #nick ali1234
[19:05] <knome> #action ali1234 and micahg to follow up on gtk3 indicator stack issues 
[19:05] <meetingology> ACTION: ali1234 and micahg to follow up on gtk3 indicator stack issues
[19:05] <knome> #nick micahg
[19:06] <lderan> Hello
[19:06] <knome> #action Noskcaj to ping elfy re weather plugin 
[19:06] <meetingology> ACTION: Noskcaj to ping elfy re weather plugin
[19:06] <knome> Noskcaj?
[19:06] <ali12341> yeah still no movement there
[19:07] <Noskcaj> it's in precise proposed
[19:07] <knome> was there an issue with that which elfy wanted to resolve?
[19:07] <knome> or did he want testing for it?
[19:08] <Noskcaj> Just testing for that, i think enough is done
[19:09] <knome> aha
[19:09] <knome> #undo
[19:09] <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
[19:09] <knome> #action micahg to talk with the DMB and separate -dev from upload rights so we can allow more people to push to xubuntu branches 
[19:09] <meetingology> ACTION: micahg to talk with the DMB and separate -dev from upload rights so we can allow more people to push to xubuntu branches
[19:09] <knome> micahg_work, that should be done, right?
[19:09] <ochosi> back
[19:10] <knome> are people actually here, or should we move the meeting?
[19:10] <pleia2> am here
[19:10] <ochosi> yeah, i thought ppl are actually here
[19:10] <micahg_work> yes
[19:10] <micahg_work> just not updated in LP yet
[19:10] <knome> ok, so i'll keep it in the actions
[19:10] <knome> #action micahg to look at Noskcaj's MOTU application 
[19:10] <meetingology> ACTION: micahg to look at Noskcaj's MOTU application
[19:10] <knome> that done?
[19:11] <pleia2> haven't finished process stuff for website, so I'll need reaction on that
[19:11] <knome> pleia2, i can't do it yet, since i don't know if have to/can undo the other action
[19:11]  * knome shrugs
[19:11] <pleia2> yep, just updating
[19:12] <knome> #action pleia2 starts working on getting the Processes wikipage updated and cleaned 
[19:12] <meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 starts working on getting the Processes wikipage updated and cleaned
[19:12] <knome> #action Unit193 to do merge proposals for "X performs Y" styled listings for the docs 
[19:12] <meetingology> ACTION: Unit193 to do merge proposals for "X performs Y" styled listings for the docs
[19:12] <knome> Unit193, did you do that already, i forgot? :)
[19:12] <Unit193> Nope.
[19:12] <knome> ok, carrying on
[19:12] <knome> you did the other one though, thanks
[19:12] <knome> #topic Team updates
[19:13] <lderan> #action lderan to create the individual merge proposals for the basix Xubuntu tests
[19:13] <meetingology> ACTION: lderan to create the individual merge proposals for the basix Xubuntu tests
[19:13] <Unit193> No, been working on it.
[19:13] <Unit193> #info xubuntu-docs 14.04.0 uploaded
[19:13] <Unit193> #info git snapshot of xfce4-panel pending upload/review
[19:13] <knome> \o/
[19:13] <ochosi> #info light-locker will see a 1.2 release towards the weekend, which brings the feature of timed-locking, bregma will package/upload it
[19:13] <slickymaster-job> \o/
[19:13] <knome> #info knome got the new website theme pushed to production, release soon
[19:13] <micahg_work> knome, I need to finish with the call for votes re MOTU app, hoping to do that tonight
[19:14] <ochosi> #info lightdm-gtk-greeter got a 1.8 release and is waiting to be packaged/uploaded
[19:14] <knome> micahg_work, okay
[19:14] <slickymaster-job> #info slickymaster finished the Xfdesktop documentation in Xubuntu docs
[19:14] <ochosi> #info our gtk-themes got releases in git, shimmer-themes is ready to updated for b1
[19:14] <lderan> #info lderan has got his  meetingology bot changes now live, more to follow soon
[19:14] <Noskcaj> #info xkb-plugin 0.7.0 now in trusty, might need testing
[19:14] <knome> lderan, nice work, btw
[19:14] <lderan> knome, thanks :)
[19:15] <knome> #action Noskcaj to be in touch with elfy on xkb-plugin testing
[19:15] <meetingology> ACTION: Noskcaj to be in touch with elfy on xkb-plugin testing
[19:15] <knome> we were able to bump the docs blueprint nicely today :)
[19:16] <knome> my head is blank for anything else, let's move on
[19:16] <knome> #topic Announcements
[19:16] <knome> #info Feature Freeze in one week
[19:16] <knome> and i guess that's it
[19:17] <ochosi> we still need the xfce4-indicator-plugin updated
[19:17] <Unit193> CC checkin
[19:17] <pleia2> then beta 1 a week after
[19:17] <knome> please get stuff into the sponsorship queue so we can get uploads in and avoid exceptions
[19:17] <ochosi> just to keep that on our radar
[19:17] <knome> Unit193, pleia2: can #info those?
[19:17] <lderan> and im working on the lightlocker settings to be finished before then 
[19:17] <pleia2> #action Beta 1 on Feb 27
[19:17] <meetingology> ACTION: Beta 1 on Feb 27
[19:17] <pleia2> oops!
[19:17] <pleia2> #undo
[19:17] <pleia2> knome: can you undo? :)
[19:17] <micahg_work> seriously?
[19:17] <micahg_work> sigh
[19:17] <knome> #undo
[19:17] <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
[19:17] <pleia2> #info Beta 1 on Feb 27
[19:17] <ochosi> #info lderan is working on a settings UI for light-locker to be finished before FF
[19:18] <Unit193> #info CC check-in at the meeting on the 20th.
[19:18] <knome> since we are a week to FF, you can be in touch with me if you need to land something before that
[19:18] <knome> and feel free to pester multiple times, i will forget things
[19:19] <micahg_work> same goes for me
[19:19] <lderan> will do
[19:19] <knome> micahg_work, WILL DO :)
[19:19] <pleia2> hah
[19:19] <ochosi> micahg_work: i think what we need most is xubuntu-default-settings and seed-update, those things are all prepared as MR afaik
[19:19] <knome> micahg_work, like, the merge requests could be great to be done
[19:19] <micahg_work> ok
[19:20] <knome> ochosi, can you double-check with the -t-features blueprint if we have done all the seed changes (that are possible at the moment)
[19:20] <Unit193> xfce4-panel is in sponsors queue.
[19:20] <knome> Unit193, that's good
[19:20] <Unit193> You already knew.
[19:20] <knome> nice progress in the last few days, let's keep the momentum up
[19:20] <knome> i did, just wanted to tell you again it's good ;)
[19:21] <knome> let's move on
[19:21] <knome> #topic Agenda
[19:21] <knome> #subtopic Vote on the new panel layout @ Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Whiskermenu
[19:21] <knome> o, behold!
[19:21] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Whiskermenu
[19:21] <knome> TL;DR (in our case "too lazy, didn't read"):
[19:22] <knome> 1) switch to one panel only, on the top of the screen
[19:22] <knome> 2) panel layout: | Whiskermenu | Windowlist-plugin | Systray | Indicators | Clock | 
[19:22] <ochosi> (just to mention that, the settings for the plugins aren't written in stone, but i've put them down anyway)
[19:23] <knome> my gut feeling is,
[19:23] <knome> 1) vote for dropping to one panel
[19:23] <knome> 2) vote for the generic panel layout (see next item)
[19:23] <brainwash> ochosi: no workspace switcher?
[19:23] <knome> 3) vote for whiskermenu/appmenu as the first item
[19:24] <knome> brainwash, this. is. a. time. too. late. for. comments.
[19:24] <knome> this has been around for ages
[19:24] <knome> and ochosi has been open for feedback
[19:24] <brainwash> just want to make it's not a mistake
[19:24] <brainwash> make usre
[19:24] <ochosi> knome: is this a community or a -team vote?
[19:24] <knome> -team
[19:24] <knome> well, we can make the -team vote which one it is
[19:25] <Noskcaj> I vote whiskermenu and drop the bottom panel
[19:25] <knome> but i'm thinking -team
[19:25] <ochosi> mhm, fine with that
[19:25] <knome> anybody disagree with that?
[19:25] <lderan> nope
[19:25] <jjfrv8> nope
[19:25] <knome> ok, great
[19:25] <slickymaster-job> nope
[19:25] <knome> #vote OK to drop the bottom panel? Team members can vote (you know who you are)
[19:25] <meetingology> Please vote on: OK to drop the bottom panel? Team members can vote (you know who you are)
[19:25] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[19:25] <ochosi> +1
[19:25] <meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
[19:26] <knome> and +1 is drop, -1 is keep
[19:26] <jjfrv8> +1
[19:26] <meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8
[19:26] <knome> (to be clear as possible)
[19:26] <knome> +1
[19:26] <meetingology> +1 received from knome
[19:26] <slickymaster-job> +1
[19:26] <meetingology> +1 received from slickymaster-job
[19:26] <lderan> +1
[19:26] <meetingology> +1 received from lderan
[19:26] <knome> !team
[19:26] <pleia2> +1
[19:26] <meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
[19:26] <Noskcaj> +1
[19:26] <meetingology> +1 received from Noskcaj
[19:26] <GridCube> mmm
[19:26] <Unit193> +0
[19:26] <meetingology> +0 received from Unit193
[19:27] <GridCube> +0
[19:27] <meetingology> +0 received from GridCube
[19:27] <knome> #endvote
[19:27] <meetingology> Voting ended on: OK to drop the bottom panel? Team members can vote (you know who you are)
[19:27] <meetingology> Votes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:2
[19:27] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:27] <knome> dropping the bottom menu.
[19:27] <ochosi> bottom menu?
[19:27] <ochosi> ah
[19:27] <knome> er, bottom panel
[19:27] <ochosi> ;)
[19:28] <lderan> :P
[19:28] <micahg_work> I missed that...I guess that's fine, though docks seem to be liked in genral
[19:28] <micahg_work> *general
[19:28] <knome> micahg_work, wouldn't have changed the outcome, so i thought "move ahead"
[19:28] <pleia2> I always turn it off :\
[19:28] <lderan> aye same here
[19:28] <ochosi> micahg_work: yeah, but it's not a real dock, just a launcher-panel (i've also heard complaints about that confusing ppl)
[19:28] <pleia2> ochosi: yeah
[19:28] <micahg_work> oh, right
[19:29] <knome> #vote Approve the generic panel layout (whiskermenu vs. appmenu to be voted on later). -team can vote
[19:29] <meetingology> Please vote on: Approve the generic panel layout (whiskermenu vs. appmenu to be voted on later). -team can vote
[19:29] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[19:29] <knome> +1
[19:29] <meetingology> +1 received from knome
[19:29] <ochosi> +1
[19:29] <meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
[19:29] <slickymaster-job> +1
[19:29] <meetingology> +1 received from slickymaster-job
[19:29] <jjfrv8> +1
[19:29] <meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8
[19:30] <lderan> +1
[19:30] <meetingology> +1 received from lderan
[19:30] <Noskcaj> +1
[19:30] <meetingology> +1 received from Noskcaj
[19:30] <pleia2> +1
[19:30] <meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
[19:30] <micahg_work> +0
[19:31] <meetingology> +0 received from micahg_work
[19:31] <Unit193> +0
[19:31] <meetingology> +0 received from Unit193
[19:31] <knome> #endvote
[19:31] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Approve the generic panel layout (whiskermenu vs. appmenu to be voted on later). -team can vote
[19:31] <meetingology> Votes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:2
[19:31] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:31] <ochosi> cool, thanks for your support
[19:31] <knome> #vote Whiskermenu (+1) or application menu (-1)? -team can vote
[19:31] <meetingology> Please vote on: Whiskermenu (+1) or application menu (-1)? -team can vote
[19:31] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[19:31] <knome> -1
[19:31] <meetingology> -1 received from knome
[19:31] <Unit193> -1
[19:31] <meetingology> -1 received from Unit193
[19:31] <ochosi> +1
[19:31] <meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
[19:31] <jjfrv8> +1
[19:31] <meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8
[19:32] <pleia2> +0
[19:32] <meetingology> +0 received from pleia2
[19:32] <slickymaster-job> -1
[19:32] <meetingology> -1 received from slickymaster-job
[19:32] <knome> i have a +1 proxy vote from skellat.
[19:32] <micahg_work> +0
[19:32] <meetingology> +0 received from micahg_work
[19:32] <micahg_work> I've never seen whiskermenu
[19:32] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Whiskermenu?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=whiskermenu.png
[19:33] <skellat_ghost> +1
[19:33] <meetingology> +1 received from skellat_ghost
[19:33] <knome> :)
[19:33] <pleia2> hehe
[19:33] <ochosi> nice ghosting trick :)
[19:34] <lderan> :P huzzah for voting ghosts
[19:34] <knome> do others want to vote?
[19:34] <lderan> +1
[19:34] <meetingology> +1 received from lderan
[19:34] <micahg_work> knome, that png doesn't explain anything, in fact, it tempts me to - 1
[19:34] <knome> micahg_work, feel free to :)
[19:34] <knome> but feel free not to...
[19:34] <ochosi> ok, so there's seemingly more discussion necessary for whisker-menu (is what i take away)
[19:35] <knome> who's missing
[19:35] <micahg_work> -1
[19:35] <meetingology> -1 received from micahg_work
[19:35] <ochosi> bluesabre is not here now
[19:35] <slickymaster-job> GridCube is
[19:35] <ochosi> not sure what he'd vote
[19:35] <knome> Noskcaj, GridCube 
[19:35] <knome> ochosi, from the people who are "around"
[19:35] <ochosi> ok
[19:35] <GridCube> +1
[19:35] <meetingology> +1 received from GridCube
[19:35] <Noskcaj> +1
[19:35] <meetingology> +1 received from Noskcaj
[19:36] <knome> #endvote
[19:36] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Whiskermenu (+1) or application menu (-1)? -team can vote
[19:36] <meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:4 Abstentions:1
[19:36] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:36] <Unit193> Boo.
[19:36] <knome> so,
[19:36] <GridCube> booo
[19:36] <knome> we have a tricky situation here
[19:36] <slickymaster-job> lol
[19:36] <knome> i think this really needs more discussion at least
[19:36] <knome> ochosi, would you be happy with postponing the inclusion to T+1?
[19:36] <knome> ochosi, or do you still want to push the cause, and try to get people convinced this cycle?
[19:37] <ochosi> we can have a discussion with the 4 -1s after the meeting
[19:37] <Unit193> ...In the back alley.
[19:37] <pleia2> oh dear :)
[19:37] <ochosi> i'm not sure going for "no" is a cool decision on a 6/4 pro vote
[19:37] <knome> those who -1'd, are you sure you won't change your mind?
[19:37] <Unit193> Pretty darn.
[19:38] <knome> i'm pretty sure, and i don't think a single discussion (even in the back alley) makes me convinved
[19:38] <slickymaster-job> yeah
[19:38] <Unit193> Yep, less proven and will be fun to support for 3 years.
[19:38] <knome> ochosi, what kind of "more discussion" are you looking at?
[19:38] <Unit193> s/will/could/
[19:39] <ochosi> just wanting to make sure ppl are thinking what is good for "all our users" instead of simply expressing personal preference
[19:39] <ochosi> knome: ^
[19:39] <knome> ochosi, are there known drawbacks with whiskermenu, or is it "as safe/stable" to use it as the apps menu?
[19:39] <ochosi> i don't know of any drawbacks
[19:39] <ochosi> i've been using it for months now
[19:40] <knome> my argument for the app menu is that it is conservative as is our desktop
[19:40] <Noskcaj> One of the bigger advantages of whiskermenu is it will be more familiar for people coming from windows
[19:40] <Unit193> Ehh.
[19:40] <knome> whiskermenu seems to represent the "new" windows versions more
[19:40] <slickymaster-job> and more aesthetically appealing
[19:40] <knome> which some people like, and others don't
[19:40] <ochosi> frankly, i like the search-function
[19:40] <Unit193> slickymaster-job: It seemed pretty clunky to me.
[19:40] <Noskcaj> yeah, search helps a lot
[19:41] <knome> for my taste, the whiskermenu is pretty complex/clunky as well
[19:41] <jjfrv8> +1
[19:41] <slickymaster-job> I meant the appmenu Unit193 
[19:41] <Unit193> Ah, right, yes.
[19:41] <ochosi> aesthetics is a bit subjective, but yeah
[19:41] <knome> ochosi, are we kind of duplicating the appfinder feature here?
[19:42] <ochosi> knome: no, i'd say we're integrating it into the menu
[19:42] <slickymaster-job> well, people tent to 'buy' with eyes first ochosi 
[19:42] <knome> ochosi, so duplicating, since we have it installed as well
[19:42] <ochosi> slickymaster-job: yeah, but some will like it more visually, some will like it less...
[19:42] <Noskcaj> It took me 6 months to realise we have an appfinder, and i've never used it. I think that's a fairly common use case
[19:42] <ochosi> slickymaster-job: this is the main reason we don't vote on what i do with the theme generally
[19:42] <ochosi> knome: we could get rid of appfinder with whiskermenu
[19:43] <slickymaster-job> agree with ochosi, just saying
[19:43] <brainwash> whiskermenu doesn't have a command history like appfinder has
[19:43] <knome> ochosi, we weren't voting on that though
[19:43] <Unit193> ochosi: No, because xfrun is appfinder.
[19:43] <ochosi> yup, true, and it doesn't launch apps
[19:43] <ochosi> err, i mean commandlines
[19:43] <brainwash> so it does not duplicate
[19:43] <brainwash> :)
[19:43] <ochosi> indeed
[19:43] <knome> it does.
[19:43] <knome> appfinder just does more.
[19:44] <ochosi> well, but then the menu also duplicates appfinder
[19:44] <knome> whiskermenu duplicates some of the functionality
[19:44] <ochosi> the traditional one i mean
[19:44] <ochosi> "it launches apps"
[19:44] <knome> sure, but less than whiskermenu
[19:44] <ochosi> seriously...
[19:44] <knome> i'm not arguing/creating a fight here
[19:44] <knome> i'm just pointing out the facts
[19:44] <ochosi> yeah, but then also point out that the traditional appmenu "opens apps"
[19:45] <knome> ochosi, is whiskermenu in the repositories already?
[19:45] <ochosi> it's not really a pro/con imo
[19:45] <ochosi> i think it is, yeah
[19:45] <ochosi> lemme check to be sure
[19:45] <knome> ochosi, launchers open apps as well.
[19:45] <ochosi> yeah :)
[19:45] <knome> ochosi, so does the terminal emulator
[19:45] <ochosi> yes, whiskermenu is already there
[19:45] <ochosi> so we can postpone this also
[19:45] <ochosi> because it'd be affected by UI freeze, or not?
[19:46] <knome> but that's not the point. the point is that the features which whiskermenu brings over the appmenu are basically duplicating more of appfinder
[19:46] <ochosi> (just not to drag the meeting along too much)
[19:46] <knome> dragging is good if discussion happens
[19:46] <knome> or not good, but fair
[19:46] <ochosi> yeah, but that does sound like you're using that as an argument, it extends the menu with a function of appfinder
[19:47] <knome> switching to use whiskermenu would theoretically need a UI freeze exception
[19:47] <knome> ochosi, no, i just wanted to bring that up since i kind of only now understood it
[19:48] <knome> ochosi, one more question...
[19:48] <knome> ochosi, will you be the liaison for contacting the whiskermenu developer if problems arise and try your best to get them fixed?
[19:48] <knome> (if we decide to use whiskermenu)
[19:48] <ochosi> knome: i already did, and he was hanging out in this channel also a while ago
[19:48] <Unit193> (I think they already did.)
[19:48] <knome> okay,
[19:49] <ochosi> let's say that we at least install whiskermenu by default
[19:49] <knome> since whiskermenu is in the repositories, we have a liaison and a good contact with the developer, and the vote ended 6-4, let's use it on the default panel
[19:49] <ochosi> then ppl have the choice at hand with a click on the panel
[19:50] <knome> #agreed Panel layout changes: the bottom panel will be dropped, the top panel will have a new layout with Whiskermenu
[19:51] <knome> #action xubuntu-team to generally discuss about whiskermenu after B1
[19:51] <meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-team to generally discuss about whiskermenu after B1
[19:51] <knome> Unit193, i'm sorry. :)
[19:51] <knome> anybody want a last comment?
[19:52] <lderan> nope
[19:52] <ochosi> if not, i'd like to quickly chat about gthumb
[19:52] <knome> hah, no famous last words
[19:52] <knome> Unit193, not even "I'M OUT"?
[19:52] <knome> ochosi, about whiskermenu :P
[19:52] <knome> #subtopic Discuss the need for Quality Assurance 
[19:52] <Unit193> knome: Hrm, good plan, I want coffee.
[19:52] <Unit193> :P
[19:52] <knome> elfy is not around, but:
[19:52] <knome> he was concerned how QA is doing
[19:53] <knome> my research:
[19:53]  * genii hears the call, and runs in with a large mug of strong coffee for Unit193, runs out again
[19:53] <knome> looking at the packages tracker, the xubuntu desktop testcases have a lot more tests ran than lubuntu, or even ubuntu core
[19:53] <Unit193> \o/
[19:53] <knome> that's most probably due to the calls on the mailing list
[19:54] <ochosi> sweet, everyone wants to have a genii  (and three wishes)
[19:54] <knome> when it comes to alpha...
[19:54] <pleia2> I need to run, but I think I can pitch in a bit more about spreading some of the calls for testing to social media
[19:54] <Noskcaj> I'm not sure it's fair to compare to lubuntu, since they are missing a QA lead, and for much of the time, a dev lead
[19:54] <ochosi> knome: i agree, QA is generally doing well imo
[19:54] <knome> it's always like that
[19:54] <pleia2> and I blogged about testing today, using Xubuntu iso as an example, so yay :)
[19:54] <Unit193> Noskcaj: No, they have a "dev lead"
[19:54] <knome> but it's true we should bump up the testing for betas
[19:55] <Noskcaj> Unit193, Yes, but gilir has very little time. I will now stop talking
[19:55] <knome> Noskcaj, is it fair to compare ubuntu core, who have a paid QA team leader?
[19:55] <Noskcaj> of course
[19:55] <knome> yep.
[19:55] <Noskcaj> yay for us
[19:55] <Unit193> Little time doesn't mean he doesn't exist, in that case we don't either. :P
[19:55] <knome> basically, i think we're doing good
[19:55]  * slickymaster-job also thinks so
[19:56] <knome> i hope that developers and other technical people will have more time to look at various bugs after the FF, when all the "creating" work should have been done
[19:56] <Unit193> Well, tests are still lacking, and I've not done as much testing as elfy for sure or even pleia2. :/
[19:56] <knome> and when we should focus on fixing bugs
[19:56] <knome> i don't think i've reported a single test result this cycle for milestones
[19:56] <knome> iirc, i've reported a few against dailies
[19:57] <knome> i will start doing tests with the betas though.
[19:57] <knome> and i encourage others to do the same
[19:57] <knome> and yeah, as pleia2 said, we should do some social media calls
[19:58] <knome> (is already a work item in the blueprint)
[19:58] <slickymaster-job> knome: and also for packages testing
[19:58] <Unit193> Although, that may not answer the question.  Wasn't the question more of if we needed it than if we were doing good with it?
[19:58] <knome> well, i'm coming to it
[19:58] <knome> yes, i think we need it
[19:58] <slickymaster-job> there hasn't been many doing those
[19:58] <knome> i thought "wow" when i looked at the packages tracker
[19:58] <knome> so many bugs!
[19:59] <knome> but that's only a good sign, right? at least we know about the nasty ones...
[19:59] <knome> and yeah, we still need QA
[19:59] <slickymaster-job> yes, but it's just a few groups of people doing them
[19:59] <knome> slickymaster-job, that's unfortunate of course
[19:59] <knome> slickymaster-job, but it's more for us than the ubuntu core
[19:59] <knome> thousands of people use every xubuntu release
[19:59] <slickymaster-job> definitely 
[19:59] <knome> do we really want to drop QA tasks?
[20:00] <slickymaster-job> no
[20:00]  * ochosi has to leave in about 10mins
[20:00] <slickymaster-job> IMO it's a valuable asset 
[20:00] <knome> does anybody have an argument for not having QA?
[20:00] <Unit193> Thu Feb 13 20:00:25 UTC 2014
[20:00] <Unit193> Only thought is that there's an aweful lot of package tests.
[20:00] <knome> ochosi, will push this meeting to the end before that.
[20:01] <knome> Unit193, that's why they are ran in cadence
[20:01] <knome> Unit193, and we do have an awful lot of packages..
[20:01] <knome> maybe we can do with less testing with non-LTS releases
[20:01] <knome> (for packages, and generally too)
[20:01] <slickymaster-job> Unit193: that also reflects the fact that QA team was worked a lot making them
[20:01] <slickymaster-job> s/was/has
[20:01] <knome> but yeah, apparently nobody thinks we should stop doing QA tasks
[20:02] <knome> hooray for elfy
[20:02] <lderan> yay
[20:02] <slickymaster-job> \o/
[20:02] <knome> and all the strength in figthing windmills :)
[20:02] <Unit193> Unless he's the one that has to run it all. :P
[20:02] <knome> Unit193, he's not
[20:02] <knome> #subtopic Discuss dropping gthumb from the seed
[20:02] <knome> does anybody want a comment?
[20:02] <knome> or should we simply vote?
[20:03] <ochosi> well gthumb's obvious problem  now in xubuntu is the gtkheaderbar
[20:03] <Unit193> First, does anyone object to it being dropped?
[20:03] <ochosi> so we end up with duplicate window-borders/controls
[20:03] <ochosi> i submitted a bugreport about that upstream, but no comments there yet
[20:03] <knome> the other argument is that we have ristretto as well
[20:03] <ochosi> and i'm doubtful that we can resolve this (even if fixed upstream) before release
[20:03] <knome> Unit193's question, anybody?
[20:04] <Unit193> So seems like a simple vote would outcome in it being dropped.
[20:04] <knome> #vote Drop gthumb (+1) or keep (-1)? -team can vote
[20:04] <meetingology> Please vote on: Drop gthumb (+1) or keep (-1)? -team can vote
[20:04] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[20:04] <knome> +1
[20:04] <meetingology> +1 received from knome
[20:04] <slickymaster-job> +1
[20:04] <meetingology> +1 received from slickymaster-job
[20:04] <Unit193> +1
[20:04] <meetingology> +1 received from Unit193
[20:04] <jjfrv8> +1
[20:04] <meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8
[20:04] <lderan> +1
[20:04] <meetingology> +1 received from lderan
[20:04] <Noskcaj> +1
[20:04] <meetingology> +1 received from Noskcaj
[20:05]  * slickymaster-job prefers Ristretto over gThumb
[20:05] <Noskcaj> Headerbar was the big change for 3.3, we could patch it out
[20:05] <knome> i'm not sure if i have a proxy vote or not from skellat, but if yes, that would be +1
[20:05] <Unit193> Only thing, gthumb has a simple crop.
[20:05] <Noskcaj> But i've never seen the point of use having gthumb
[20:05] <knome> quote: Relative to the removal of gthumb from the seed, I am okay with its removal.
[20:06] <knome> but not any more clear indication on vote either way.
[20:06] <knome> !team
[20:06] <knome> others want to vote?
[20:06] <Noskcaj> My only issue with the drop is you have to try to understand gimp to do any image editing. Why not have something lighter/easier to use
[20:06]  * Unit193 already voted.
[20:06] <knome> Noskcaj, because there isn't anything easier to use, we've explored that option.
[20:06] <Noskcaj> ok
[20:06] <knome> Noskcaj, feel free to propose something for T+1
[20:07] <knome> #endvote
[20:07] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Drop gthumb (+1) or keep (-1)? -team can vote
[20:07] <meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[20:07] <meetingology> Motion carried
[20:07]  * Unit193 misses xnview.
[20:07] <knome> #subtopic Start the discussion on the technical review for the Strategy Document 
[20:07] <knome> postponing
[20:07] <knome> #topic Schedule next meeting
[20:07] <knome> do people want to move it out from the FF day?
[20:08] <ochosi> sry, gotta go...
[20:08] <ochosi> :/
[20:08] <knome> maybe tue/wed to have a day or two to prepare things?
[20:08] <knome> ochosi, we're closing it up, see you ;)
[20:08] <ochosi> seey'all
[20:08] <lderan> cheerio ochosi 
[20:09] <knome> #action knome to email the -devel list on scheduling the next meeting
[20:09] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to email the -devel list on scheduling the next meeting
[20:09] <knome> #endmeeting
[20:09] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb 13 20:09:27 2014 UTC.  
[20:09] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-02-13-19.01.moin.txt
[20:09] <knome> thanks, and i'm off too.
[20:09] <slickymaster-job> thanks knome 
[20:09] <lderan> cheerio :P
[20:09] <slickymaster-job> I'm off too ->
[20:12] <brainwash> meh, no answer regarding the removal of the panel workspace-switcher :(
[20:15] <knome> brainwash, it's absence from the proposed layout is not a mistake
[20:15] <knome> *its
[20:16] <Unit193> No, but "why?" was his question.
[20:16] <knome> no...
[20:16] <knome> 21:24  brainwash: just want to make it's not a mistake
[20:17] <knome> lderan, eh :D
[20:17] <knome> lderan, the bot output lacks the "Votes" header
[20:17] <knome> wait, no
[20:17] <knome> it's just in the wrong place (after the vote results)
[20:18] <brainwash> knome: ok, weird change, but I can accept it
[20:19] <knome> lderan, actually, the vote output code is generally a bit off
[20:19] <knome> malformed links as well
[20:20] <knome> lderan, fixed in the wikipage, look in the source moin output at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-02-13-19.01.moin.txt
[20:22] <brainwash> Unit193: do we move the xfwm4 monitor root pixmap stuff to T+1?
[20:22] <knome> lderan, [xubuntu-qa] Set up a list of applications we want to look at for automated package testing: INPROGRESS
[20:22] <knome> lderan, is that basically done, or...?
[20:25] <Unit193> brainwash: Not sure if the quirks I'm having are xfwm/xfdesktop or something else.  Has there even been much testing of it?
[20:26] <brainwash> Unit193: not much testing yet, because no one knows about it
[20:27] <brainwash> and it's not part of the trusty roadmap
[20:28] <brainwash> it's just a small tweak anyway, not necessary, but it improves the desktop experience
[20:28] <Unit193> Looks like https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/xfce/+packages has everything to test it on Trusty, and everything except the greeter on Saucy.
[20:29] <brainwash> it would great, if you could enable/disable it at runtime
[20:30] <Unit193> I'm so very much the wrong person to ask about that.
[20:30] <brainwash> I'm not an expert too
[20:32] <brainwash> so unless we get more test results it won't land in trusty
[20:33] <Unit193> Well, sadly my most looked after feature of xfwm4 won't land.
[20:34] <Unit193> brainwash: Actually, you tried the new tabwin stuff?
[20:34] <brainwash> new?
[20:34] <brainwash> or is tabwin generally considered to be "new"
[20:34] <Unit193> Well, new in that it isn't years old.
[20:34] <Unit193> tail -f .cache/upstart/startxfce4.log  then alt+tab to something.
[20:35] <Unit193> xfwm4-Message: (nil)
[20:35] <brainwash> I'm not that exited about tabwin, usually I avoid using the mouse
[20:36] <Unit193> I don't use the mouse in it either, just different theme/settings you can use.
[20:36] <brainwash> and what about the zoom feature?
[20:36] <brainwash> this one is nice, but still not documented or?
[20:36] <Unit193> That doesn't need to be enabled, isn't it already in?
[20:37] <brainwash> yea, but somewhat hidden
[20:37] <brainwash> :)
[20:38] <brainwash> and the patch to hide the window controls for new gtk3 apps would be awesome
[20:38] <Unit193> Bah, no accessibility area in the xubuntu docs.
[20:39] <brainwash> so business as usual, some things will get moved to +1
[20:40] <Unit193> Well try not to ship too many patches.
[20:41] <Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/1.6.3-1ubuntu3 nice, at least we got that patch.
[20:41] <brainwash> wow, that was fast
[20:46] <brainwash> Unit193: your xfdesktop ppa package is kinda old, want to update it? http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/log/
[20:47] <Unit193> Well, it's actually a released version, do you want a new version?
[20:48] <brainwash> it makes testing xfdesktop easier for people
[20:49] <brainwash> in case anyone actually tests it
[20:49] <brainwash> I can point them to your ppa
[20:50] <knome> pleia2, i've found the problem with the slideshow. will poke IS later, but for now, drop in a static placeholder image
[20:50] <brainwash> but maybe there will be a new release soon after all these fixes
[20:51] <Unit193> brainwash: Looking into getting xfce4-indicator-plugin into trsuty now.
[20:51] <brainwash> finally :)
[20:52] <brainwash> will it be ready for b1?
[20:53] <Unit193> I'm not an uploader, can't know.
[21:02] <knome> can somebody look at xubuntu.org to see any obvious theming mistakes?
[21:02] <knome> (and please make sure you don't look at cache)
[21:09] <Unit193> Well, that's...
[21:11] <Noskcaj> Maybe that the menu icon is hidden in the screenshot shown
[21:17] <knome> Unit193, what is?
[21:18] <Unit193> The white seems to clash with the other white, and lack of navigation.
[21:18] <Unit193> (Yes, I see the bottom.)
[21:21] <knome> what white?
[21:22] <knome> though your comments are ignored.
[21:22] <knome> there was the time for those
[21:22] <knome> now i was just wondering if there was something specific on the site that needed fixing
[21:22] <knome> like an image appearing weirdly, or an old style for a blockquote
[21:26] <Unit193> Hah, "you're ignored" :D
[21:27] <knome> in this subject.
[21:27] <knome> and not technically ignored, just dismissed
[21:27] <ochosi> is there anything that would be off on xubuntu.org?
[21:27] <ochosi> seems fine here
[21:27] <Unit193> Out of turn and all. :D
[21:28] <Unit193> http://xubuntu.org/wp-content/plugins/srv/wordpress3-farm/wordpress-plugins/photoslider/slider.js and http://xubuntu.org/wp-content/plugins/srv/wordpress3-farm/wordpress-plugins/photoslider/defaults.css so those might be missing?
[21:30] <ochosi> knome: where are those nice colored headers that you showed off before?
[21:41] <pleia2> knome: ok, thanks for fixing :)
[21:41] <knome> Unit193, yes... as i've said, i've found the problem with the slideshow
[21:42] <knome> Unit193, actually, the problem is not missing file, the problem is canonical's weird configuration, which is why those links point to wrong locations...
[21:45] <ochosi> xnox: since you were so extremely fast to do the xubuntu-community-artwork pkg, this would be another one (with actually higher priority, but it wasn't ready before): https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/xfce4-panel/snapshot/+merge/206173
[21:55] <brainwash> Unit193: so we got the xfce4-panel git snapshot, should I request to include the pending fix for https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10658 on launchpad?
[21:56] <Unit193> brainwash: It's not in yet, and is that tested enough?
[21:56] <brainwash> tested by me
[21:57] <brainwash> short term test
[21:58] <brainwash> so we can add the patch later
[21:58] <ochosi> yup, it's bugfix
[21:58] <Unit193> Well, upstream git snapshot from HEAD is kind of bad as-is for an LTS, patches from bugzilla on top of that don't sound good (chances lower for getting in?)
[21:59] <ochosi> i suppose this will be merged into master "sometime soon"
[21:59] <ochosi> then it'd just be an update of the snapshot ;)
[21:59] <brainwash> it will get merged 100%
[21:59] <Unit193> brainwash: Not that I don't agree, this is something needed.
[21:59] <ochosi> brainwash: anyway, let's focus on the stuff that needs to get done *now*
[22:00] <Unit193> That in theory could be one of them...
[22:00] <brainwash> it was just thinking that we should do everything now
[22:00] <brainwash> later it will become awful hard to get the stuff in
[22:01] <ochosi> hey andrzejr 
[22:01] <Unit193> Was andrzejr going to do another release of xfce4-indicator-plugin soon?  Or after FF?
[22:01] <ochosi> Unit193: i think that depends on the next release of the panel...
[22:01] <ochosi> at least that's what i remember
[22:02] <Unit193> indicator-dialog.c:449:28: warning: 'GtkStock' is deprecated [-Wdeprecated-declarations] GTK_STOCK_CLEAR, NULL, NULL,
[22:02] <Unit193> ochosi: Makes sense to me.
[22:02] <ochosi> crap, welcome to gtk3.10
[22:04] <ochosi> i guess we could patch that
[22:04] <ochosi> Unit193: is that the only warning?
[22:04] <Unit193> It's a warning?  Who cares? :P
[22:04] <Unit193> Yep.
[22:04] <ochosi> :)
[22:04] <ochosi> ok
[22:05] <ochosi> (but still, things'll get more annoying with all the things gtk3 is deprecating)
[22:05] <brainwash> ochosi: we also need a new release of xfdesktop, right? 4.11.3
[22:05] <ochosi> brainwash: depends, if there are features, then that should be moved ahead asap also
[22:06] <Unit193> debian/patches/migrate-xfcerc-xfconf.patch <--- Still need that?
[22:07] <ochosi> Unit193: also in the indicator-plugin?
[22:07] <Unit193> Yes.
[22:07] <ochosi> i think 12.04 was already using xfconf
[22:07] <ochosi> but let me check...
[22:07] <brainwash> ochosi: mainly the new grid layout, improved xfce4-settings compatibility, icon scaling
[22:07] <Unit193> 0.5.0, yes, that's why I think not.
[22:08] <ochosi> brainwash: those are improvements we can sell as bugfix i think
[22:08] <brainwash> yes :)
[22:10] <ochosi> Unit193: if precise really has 0.5 and not 0.4 you can drop the patch
[22:10] <ochosi> but anyway, drop it
[22:10] <ochosi> cause even though 0.4 was still using the rc file, i'm pretty sure the options changed since then..
[22:10] <Unit193> Crap, nope.
[22:10] <ochosi> so migrating old deprecated settings won't help
[22:11] <Unit193> Has 4.
[22:11] <ochosi> yeah
[22:11] <ochosi> but still, migrating those settings might not be worth it
[22:11] <ochosi> most of them are new now anyway
[22:11] <ochosi> it's the hide/show list to the maximum
[22:11] <Unit193> I'm good with that, because I don't want to have to re-work it. :P
[22:12] <ochosi> (back then, e.g. -messages didn't work anyway..)
[22:23] <Unit193> knome: Adding you again as XPL ack, k?
[22:23] <Unit193> ochosi: Want on too? :P
[22:23] <ochosi> sure
[22:23] <ochosi> one more comment can't hurt
[22:24] <knome> Unit193, sure.
[22:26] <Unit193> You have mail.
[22:28] <knome> done
[22:29] <Unit193> Danke.
[22:30] <Unit193> Also, so am I. \o/
[22:34] <ochosi> Unit193: done
[23:02] <GridCube> sorry for not being active on today's meeting, i was at that hour at work because i was explaining somethings to my coworkers of the next shift
[23:20] <ochosi> knome: i'll do another MR for the seed for whiskermenu and the new community-artwork package, i'll also remove gthumb at the same time
[23:20] <knome> thanks
[23:22] <knome> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/group/topic-t-flavor-xubuntu.html looks good, by the way
[23:22] <knome> proves we have actually done something
[23:22] <Unit193> We have? ;)
[23:22] <knome> all of us, Unit193 included
[23:23] <ochosi> a lot less postponed that i'd have expected :)
[23:24] <knome> so far
[23:24] <knome> my bet is we end up with ~10 postponed items
[23:24] <knome> (=~ 10%)
[23:27] <ochosi> sounds fair
[23:29] <ochosi> knome: i'm wondering whether we should go forward with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1004400
[23:30] <knome> ochosi, we can apply that patch if you think it's worth it, and since you are working on it anyway
[23:32] <ochosi> dunno, personally i don't mind so much
[23:32] <ochosi> but since it's an upstream change, i'm ok to follow 
[23:33] <knome> sure, it's not a big deal
[23:43] <ochosi> hope you're ok that i asked for your review on the MR as well...
[23:47] <knome> heh
[23:47] <knome> sure
[23:47] <ochosi> just so that "whoever" merges that doesn't have the feeling they have to look at it too closely
[23:48] <knome> done
[23:49] <ochosi> ty