[00:59] good news, I seem to have figured out some of the issues with menulibre :] [01:21] "some"? [01:40] knome, you still up? [01:44] good to hear, bluesabre :) [02:02] knome, something to start the discussion with anyway: http://imagebin.org/293613 [02:03] jjfrv8: Miss XP, do we? :P [02:04] ? [03:28] yay, panel 4.11 [03:28] packaging now [03:32] Handy indeed. [03:32] (Has a commit to fix transparency.) [03:38] Looks like it wasn't tagged though... [03:45] Unit193, wait a moment... [03:46] thanks for the releases andrzejr [03:46] Oh no, he read me. :3 [03:46] tags should be ok now [03:47] also released xfce4-indicator-plugin [03:48] One thing unclear about the panel is dependency on xfconf - so far no 4.11.0 version yet but there were some changes in git. [03:55] garcon, yeah. [03:55] Thanks! [04:09] both updates done, just have to wait for sponsorings [04:12] \o/ [05:08] finally... made add directory functionality work right [05:09] and fixed xfce toplevel adding [05:09] tomorrow will be a good day for menulibre [05:09] :) [06:14] Updated my "small-fixes" branch for the seed, s/gcalctool/gnome-calculator/ as it's a transitional package. [09:05] lderan: how's "Set up a list of applications we want to look at for automated package testing" going? [09:34] ochosi knome - whiskermenu and gtk3 indicators now on tracker [10:07] elfy lderan are you guys still planning to use autopilot, i have an MP waiting which adds a test runner for the tests so they can be run in a pristine environment much like ubiquity tests [10:17] planning ... can't see it coming to fruition in this cycle though [10:18] see 09:05 ^^ :) [10:29] DanChapman: ^^ [11:08] elfy: looks like we can start disabling all the additional PPAs :) [11:14] nice, releases of the panel and indicator-plugin! [11:23] thanks a lot andrzejr ! [11:25] that's really cool [11:25] the panel transparency fix even got in [11:25] yup :) [11:26] it's pretty much all we need for trusty [11:26] (apart from the usual odd bugfix) [11:27] and that's even before b1, it's hard to believe :) [11:27] brainwash: yea indeed, not sure which ones to disable yet lol [11:30] knome: i'll try to do the panel-layout today [11:30] ali12341: would've been nice to see panel-switch get a UI in time for trusty [11:31] brainwash: not sure about anyone else but I've got http://pastebin.com/5t1V6eDx [11:31] ali12341: we could package/upload it as is, if you think you could do a UI in time for release (could sneak that in as bugfix or FFe) [11:31] i don't think i will have time [11:32] elfy: depends on what has landed, but what you can remove once that's landed is: lightdm-gtk-greeter, noskcaj-indicator, shimmerproject, xubuntu-dev [11:32] elfy: not sure what's in unit193-trusty again [11:32] think it was tabwin [11:32] elfy: and i guess mugshot has already landed, so you can remove everything [11:32] ah [11:33] tabwin + root pixmap support [11:33] hmm, well that won't make it into 14.04 unless there comes a release for xfwm4 with the branch merged, like tomorrow [11:33] ochosi: I'll purge them prior to b1 [11:33] hm, i wonder whether the packages in trusty won't supercede the PPA packages [11:33] they should do [11:34] if they do, you simply won't be getting updates anymore from teh PPAs [11:34] depends what version number the ppa uses [11:34] ali12341: :'( i understand, time is scarce. still, i think this is something really really useful. would you be ok with someone else providing a patch? [11:34] sure [11:35] i mean while the current implementation isn't perfect and not ready for upstream, i think users will appreciate it [11:35] maybe lderan has time and motivation for another small project [11:35] what about the headerbar xfwm4 patch? [11:35] yeah, hasn't been merged yet [11:36] so i dunno, we'd have to sneak that in as a patch [11:36] might be quite big as a patch [11:36] more apps will switch to headerbar only and look somewhat ugly [11:36] and humm, i'd need to update our themes (that's not really a problem though) [11:36] what apps? [11:36] e.g. gthumb [11:36] some gnome apps, elementary apps [11:36] that's one reason why we dropped it [11:37] and more to come (PPAs) [11:37] i think it looks fine with two header bars actually [11:37] ochosi: and gtkparasite :P [11:37] can you hack the theme so that the headerbar doesn't have the title? [11:37] then it would just look like a regular toolbar [11:38] not sure [11:38] that's another workaround i guess [11:38] also the close button [11:38] would have to be xubuntu-specific though [11:38] just make them height and width 0px [11:38] since greybird supports gnome3 as well [11:38] well, perhaps there are some gnome3 users who don't like headerbar? [11:39] nah, it's about the window-manager supporting headerbar [11:39] if i break it, then that won't look nice in all gnome3 apps [11:39] cause they use it by default [11:39] 3rd party apps are also switching to that very rapidly (without thinking about fallbacks) [11:39] seems like that's gnome3's problem [11:40] no, the 3rd party apps also make it our problem [11:41] i remain unconvinced [11:43] could be worse: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-02-16-124320.php [11:45] right [11:45] no idea how to remove that close-button though [11:45] http://imagebin.org/293661 [11:46] if you can hide them it will just look like a regular toolbar [11:46] yup [11:48] no need to actually remove them, just style them so that they are invisible [11:48] maybe even render:none; would work [11:48] or display:none; [11:51] yeah, but then there's an empty space there [11:52] since there are options to move the close button to the other side (have yet to find them though), i guess we have to be able to hide them to [11:52] just set "position: /dev/null;" [11:54] or width:0px; [11:58] actually with "0" you don't use "px" anymore [11:58] i guess they felt that's uncool :) [12:05] there's a gtk option show-close-button which hides the x [12:09] http://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/2014-January/030607.html he used the right term for it. [12:14] why doesn't calculator have a headerbar on trusty? [12:15] i could proably make aLD_PRELOAD hack that selectively disables the header bar if there is nothing in it, or just hides the title and close button if there is [12:16] ali12341: ubuntu devs have patched "most" gnome3 apps [12:16] e.g. evince [12:17] they submitted patches upstream afaik to provide a fallback-mode if the app is used in !gnome-shell [12:17] for ach individual app? [12:17] yup [12:17] that's lame [12:17] for evince it took like 3 versions i think to get fixed [12:17] they're still working on fileroller [12:17] to get gnome-appmenu -> normal menu [12:18] well, not much i can do about the appmenus [12:18] it's lame of upstream gnome3 and app-devs to not think of other DEs [12:18] i don't mind those though [12:18] well they take the full width of a menubar while providing 1 item [12:18] that is lame [12:18] ochosi: But not unexpected at all. :/ [12:19] but generally they only have one menu under them [12:19] Unit193: unexpected things still happen ;) (systemd) [12:19] ali12341: yup, gnome3 shows that in the panel [12:19] which is weird imo, having the gear-menu in the window-deco and that other menu in the panel [12:19] i don't understand [12:20] there are 2 menus in gnome3 [12:20] the appmenu (with global settings for the app) in the panel [12:20] and the gear-menu, which is in the client-side decorations [12:20] like xfce4-panel? [12:20] (not sure how the latter is called) [12:20] no, only in gnome3's panel [12:20] so we can't access that menu at all? [12:20] for us that's in the menubar [12:21] where? [12:21] that's already the fallback [12:21] e.g. in file-roller in trusty [12:21] sorry i still don't understand :S [12:22] appmenu: http://picomol.de/wp-content/uploads/libreoffice_4.2-gnome_appmenu.png [12:22] can you show me with gthumb? [12:22] that gets converted to a single menubaritem [12:22] no, gthumb uses the headerbar, which is something else again [12:22] let me see whether i can find a screenshot with both [12:23] ok, e.g. http://scr3.golem.de/screenshots/1205/gnome_36_design/thumb620/calculator-app-menu.png [12:23] so if you run unpatched calculator on xfce where does that menu appear? [12:23] as a single item in the menubar [12:23] no other options, only these [12:23] what does it look like? [12:23] like a regular menubar [12:23] but it should have 3 items in that menubar [12:23] like it currently has [12:24] that's what the fallback mode does [12:24] sry, gotta quickly run out [12:24] bbiab [12:39] ali12341: this is what i called the "gear menu": http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/GNOME-s-File-Manager-Will-Be-More-User-Friendly-409360-4.png [12:40] ali12341: and here you can see both, although not in action: http://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/files/2013/12/radiance4.png [12:43] what's a good way to create a NULL widget that doesn't draw anything? [13:03] hey sergio-br2 [13:03] how's it going with the folders? [13:04] ali12341: why would you wanna do that? [13:04] or where [13:04] headerbar has "custom title" widget [13:04] if you set it it hides the normal title [13:06] aha [13:06] actually for xfce we can simply hide it in the theme [13:07] oh, okay then :) [13:07] this wouldn't work very well anyway [13:07] there's no way to know if the app hides or unhides it [13:07] i'll see whether i can tweak the headerbar more during the course of today [13:08] hiding the close button works quite well though [13:08] well i can do "fg-color=bg-color" [13:08] ah, how did you do it? [13:08] replace the gtk_header_bar_set_show_close_button function with a preload stub that always sets it to false [13:09] meh, i thought you did it in the theme [13:09] hmm actually... [13:09] maybe the header bar could be permanently hidden, and then just catch when it packs things into it and put them somewhere else [13:10] like a toolbar [13:12] you wanna patch gtk upstream? [13:13] hey, hello everyone [13:17] ochosi: it's a runtime patch [13:22] ochosi, i think places96 branch is ready to merge [13:23] it's missing some icons, but you said that they are optional [13:29] ochosi: should I remove https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/xubuntu-default-settings/desktop-icon-size ? [13:31] a new release of xfdesktop will land in trusty hopefully soon and set the icon size to 48 [13:52] ochosi: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6943234/ [13:54] ali12341: doesn't look very long, so you'd just add this to the xfce session then? [13:54] i wouldn't recommend anyone actually uses it [13:55] :) [13:56] brainwash_: 48? wouldn't 24 be better ... :p [13:56] so are there any apps that have a headerbar with no buttons? [13:58] I would hope not [13:58] ali12341: no, headerbar is always toolbar+window-controls [13:58] that completely destroys the purpose [13:59] i mean no buttons except window controls [13:59] like calculator [14:01] elfy: 48 is now the default (upstream), the grid layout is also more compact now, so it looks similar to thunar's icon view [14:02] was not serious ;) [14:42] hmm... got another approach... patch GtkHeaderBar out of existence entirely [14:48] not sure that has good chances of getting merged upstream [14:49] well it's still a runtime patch [14:50] brainwash_: yeah, feel free to drop that one. also, i've already changed greybird accordingly [14:52] this works surprisingly well [14:53] basically i patch gtk_header_bar_new to return a GtkBox instead, which has nearly all the same API [14:53] then ignore any operation that isn't adding buttons [14:54] GtkBox, when empty, uses no room [14:54] so this makes the headerbar go away completely unless someone adds a button to it, in which case you only see the buttons, and nothing else [14:59] Wow. [15:01] but the theming is probably a bit strange [15:01] cause it's flat, unlike toolbars [15:01] (which would probably be the best option, themingwise) [15:01] yeah, because it is drawn outside the window frame it has no background [15:02] the buttons are themed correctly [15:02] ah, hmmm [15:02] that's a problem, the gtkbox not having/drawing a background (in this case) [15:02] http://imagebin.org/293678 [15:03] that's a bit ... ouch :) [15:10] it's fixable :) [15:10] yeah, i guess [15:10] i'm just wondering whether the simple theming trick to make it look like a toolbar is better/easier/safer [15:11] sure, i'm just doing this for fun [15:14] i assume you prefer this to writing a UI for panel-switch :} [15:43] cool, it works [15:43] http://paste.ubuntu.com/6943801/ [16:57] knome: you about? [16:57] knome: need you to review a draft post for the site <3 [16:58] hi pleia2 [16:58] hi there elfy [16:58] you want to have a look? :D [16:58] can do :) [16:59] "Xubuntu Marketing with SpreadUbuntu Flyer - Draft" [16:59] ^^ in the list of posts [17:01] pleia2: yep - assumed as much :) [17:02] pleia2: can I assume that I don't need to ping you re [xubuntu-website] Run social media campaigning for QA during beta milestones: TODO [17:02] when it comes up [17:03] pleia2: post looks good to me [17:03] elfy: hah, this ping now should be sufficient! I'll put it on my calendar [17:03] lol ok :) [17:46] thanks sergio-br2, merged places [17:46] will review the other branches in a bit and then merge them, supposedly [17:46] after that i'll do a release [17:46] ok [17:48] reviewed + merged [18:16] sergio-br2: project for next release: 96px mimes :) [18:16] yeah [18:16] and there are lot of... [18:16] rsrs [18:16] yup, i know, i've done pretty much all of the 64px ones myself [18:19] and for after that, i guess 128px mimes... [18:19] thing is, those are at least used/visible in xfce [18:19] most other 128px icons never show here [18:22] ochosi, i did the pull request [21:09] testing, testing. [21:11] sanchopanza, yeah, we see you [21:11] cool. anyone available to guide a newbie through getting started with documentation? [21:14] knome, jjfrv8 ^ [21:14] I'm not sure if they're around right now [21:14] Maybe send an email to the xubuntu-devel mailing list [21:15] slickymaster: ^ [21:15] sanchopanza: depending on how much time you have, you could stick around for a bit [21:15] doesn't look like they're around. i'll try again later. jjfrv8 suggested getting on here for some guidance. [21:16] maybe some of them show up [21:16] what kind of docs would you like to work on? [22:11] jjfrv8, slickymaster: weeeee, good news, xfce has versioned docs now! [22:11] ochosi, cool, the patch worked as is? [22:12] knome: not sure: http://git.xfce.org/www/wiki.xfce.org/commit/?id=4d2f0a6d6ef6ec80149d22eb022384181ca601ea [22:12] can't remember now what yours looked like [22:13] looks similar, but i can't remember what my patch looked like either ;) [22:13] hehe [22:13] yeah, no surprise it'll look at least similar ;) [22:14] yeah, it's the same code [22:15] ok cool [22:15] yep [22:15] nice to be of help ;) [22:16] well now we can clean up the docs on bluesabre's wiki and then i can push them upstream \o/ [22:18] knome: actually nick did a bit more than just merge your patch, he also added another helper function in libxfce4ui so apps can send their version for the docs [22:18] :) [22:18] well that's nice [22:18] (right now it sends the desktop-version) [22:18] yup [22:18] very cool improvement [22:19] so we can in fact do parole-docs per version now [22:25] hmm, meh, seems like xfdesktop4.11 still sends "4.10" as xfce version [22:26] so i guess we'd need the new feature of libxfce4ui for that to work then [22:31] heh