[00:59] <bluesabre> good news, I seem to have figured out some of the issues with menulibre :]
[01:21] <knome> "some"?
[01:40] <jjfrv8> knome, you still up?
[01:44] <jjfrv8> good to hear, bluesabre :)
[02:02] <jjfrv8> knome, something to start the discussion with anyway: http://imagebin.org/293613
[02:03] <Unit193> jjfrv8: Miss XP, do we? :P
[02:04] <jjfrv8> ?
[03:28] <Noskcaj> yay, panel 4.11
[03:28] <Noskcaj> packaging now
[03:32] <Unit193> Handy indeed.
[03:32] <Unit193> (Has a commit to fix transparency.)
[03:38] <Unit193> Looks like it wasn't tagged though...
[03:45] <andrzejr> Unit193, wait a moment...
[03:46] <Noskcaj> thanks for the releases andrzejr 
[03:46] <Unit193> Oh no, he read me. :3
[03:46] <andrzejr> tags should be ok now
[03:47] <andrzejr> also released xfce4-indicator-plugin
[03:48] <andrzejr> One thing unclear about the panel is dependency on xfconf - so far no 4.11.0 version yet but there were some changes in git.
[03:55] <Unit193> garcon, yeah.
[03:55] <Unit193> Thanks!
[04:09] <Noskcaj> both updates done, just have to wait for sponsorings
[04:12] <Unit193> \o/
[05:08] <bluesabre> finally... made add directory functionality work right
[05:09] <bluesabre> and fixed xfce toplevel adding
[05:09] <bluesabre> tomorrow will be a good day for menulibre
[05:09] <bluesabre> :)
[06:14] <Unit193> Updated my "small-fixes" branch for the seed, s/gcalctool/gnome-calculator/ as it's a transitional package.
[09:05] <elfy> lderan: how's "Set up a list of applications we want to look at for automated package testing" going?
[09:34] <elfy> ochosi knome - whiskermenu and gtk3 indicators now on tracker 
[10:07] <DanChapman> elfy lderan are you guys still planning to use autopilot, i have an MP waiting which adds a test runner for the tests so they can be run in a pristine environment much like ubiquity tests
[10:17] <elfy> planning ... can't see it coming to fruition in this cycle though
[10:18] <elfy> see 09:05 ^^ :)
[10:29] <elfy> DanChapman: ^^
[11:08] <brainwash> elfy: looks like we can start disabling all the additional PPAs :)
[11:14] <ochosi> nice, releases of the panel and indicator-plugin!
[11:23] <ochosi> thanks a lot andrzejr !
[11:25] <ali12341> that's really cool
[11:25] <ali12341> the panel transparency fix even got in
[11:25] <ochosi> yup :)
[11:26] <ochosi> it's pretty much all we need for trusty
[11:26] <ochosi> (apart from the usual odd bugfix)
[11:27] <ochosi> and that's even before b1, it's hard to believe :)
[11:27] <elfy> brainwash: yea indeed, not sure which ones to disable yet lol 
[11:30] <ochosi> knome: i'll try to do the panel-layout today
[11:30] <ochosi> ali12341: would've been nice to see panel-switch get a UI in time for trusty
[11:31] <elfy> brainwash: not sure about anyone else but I've got http://pastebin.com/5t1V6eDx
[11:31] <ochosi> ali12341: we could package/upload it as is, if you think you could do a UI in time for release (could sneak that in as bugfix or FFe)
[11:31] <ali12341> i don't think i will have time
[11:32] <ochosi> elfy: depends on what has landed, but what you can remove once that's landed is: lightdm-gtk-greeter, noskcaj-indicator, shimmerproject, xubuntu-dev
[11:32] <ochosi> elfy: not sure what's in unit193-trusty again
[11:32] <elfy> think it was tabwin 
[11:32] <ochosi> elfy: and i guess mugshot has already landed, so you can remove everything
[11:32] <ochosi> ah
[11:33] <brainwash> tabwin + root pixmap support
[11:33] <ochosi> hmm, well that won't make it into 14.04 unless there comes a release for xfwm4 with the branch merged, like tomorrow
[11:33] <elfy> ochosi: I'll purge them prior to b1 
[11:33] <ochosi> hm, i wonder whether the packages in trusty won't supercede the PPA packages
[11:33] <ali12341> they should do
[11:34] <ochosi> if they do, you simply won't be getting updates anymore from teh PPAs
[11:34] <ali12341> depends what version number the ppa uses
[11:34] <ochosi> ali12341: :'( i understand, time is scarce. still, i think this is something really really useful. would you be ok with someone else providing a patch?
[11:34] <ali12341> sure
[11:35] <ochosi> i mean while the current implementation isn't perfect and not ready for upstream, i think users will appreciate it
[11:35] <ochosi> maybe lderan has time and motivation for another small project
[11:35] <brainwash> what about the headerbar xfwm4 patch?
[11:35] <ochosi> yeah, hasn't been merged yet
[11:36] <ochosi> so i dunno, we'd have to sneak that in as a patch
[11:36] <ochosi> might be quite big as a patch
[11:36] <brainwash> more apps will switch to headerbar only and look somewhat ugly
[11:36] <ochosi> and humm, i'd need to update our themes (that's not really a problem though)
[11:36] <ali12341> what apps?
[11:36] <ochosi> e.g. gthumb
[11:36] <brainwash> some gnome apps, elementary apps
[11:36] <ochosi> that's one reason why we dropped it
[11:37] <brainwash> and more to come (PPAs)
[11:37] <ali12341> i think it looks fine with two header bars actually
[11:37] <brainwash> ochosi: and gtkparasite :P
[11:37] <ali12341> can you hack the theme so that the headerbar doesn't have the title?
[11:37] <ali12341> then it would just look like a regular toolbar
[11:38] <ochosi> not sure
[11:38] <ochosi> that's another workaround i guess
[11:38] <ali12341> also the close button
[11:38] <ochosi> would have to be xubuntu-specific though
[11:38] <ali12341> just make them height and width 0px
[11:38] <ochosi> since greybird supports gnome3 as well
[11:38] <ali12341> well, perhaps there are some gnome3 users who don't like headerbar?
[11:39] <ochosi> nah, it's about the window-manager supporting headerbar
[11:39] <ochosi> if i break it, then that won't look nice in all gnome3 apps
[11:39] <ochosi> cause they use it by default
[11:39] <ochosi> 3rd party apps are also switching to that very rapidly (without thinking about fallbacks)
[11:39] <ali12341> seems like that's gnome3's problem
[11:40] <ochosi> no, the 3rd party apps also make it our problem
[11:41] <ali12341> i remain unconvinced
[11:43] <ochosi> could be worse: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-02-16-124320.php
[11:45] <ali12341> right
[11:45] <ochosi> no idea how to remove that close-button though
[11:45] <ali12341> http://imagebin.org/293661
[11:46] <ali12341> if you can hide them it will just look like a regular toolbar
[11:46] <ochosi> yup
[11:48] <ali12341> no need to actually remove them, just style them so that they are invisible
[11:48] <ali12341> maybe even render:none; would work
[11:48] <ali12341> or display:none;
[11:51] <ochosi> yeah, but then there's an empty space there
[11:52] <ochosi> since there are options to move the close button to the other side (have yet to find them though), i guess we have to be able to hide them to
[11:52] <ochosi> just set "position: /dev/null;"
[11:54] <ali12341> or width:0px;
[11:58] <ochosi> actually with "0" you don't use "px" anymore
[11:58] <ochosi> i guess they felt that's uncool :)
[12:05] <ali12341> there's a gtk option show-close-button which hides the x
[12:09] <Unit193> http://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/2014-January/030607.html he used the right term for it.
[12:14] <ali12341> why doesn't calculator have a headerbar on trusty?
[12:15] <ali12341> i could proably make aLD_PRELOAD hack that selectively disables the header bar if there is nothing in it, or just hides the title and close button if there is
[12:16] <ochosi> ali12341: ubuntu devs have patched "most" gnome3 apps
[12:16] <ochosi> e.g. evince
[12:17] <ochosi> they submitted patches upstream afaik to provide a fallback-mode if the app is used in !gnome-shell
[12:17] <ali12341> for ach individual app?
[12:17] <ochosi> yup
[12:17] <ali12341> that's lame
[12:17] <ochosi> for evince it took like 3 versions i think to get fixed
[12:17] <ochosi> they're still working on fileroller
[12:17] <ochosi> to get gnome-appmenu -> normal menu
[12:18] <ali12341> well, not much i can do about the appmenus
[12:18] <ochosi> it's lame of upstream gnome3 and app-devs to not think of other DEs
[12:18] <ali12341> i don't mind those though
[12:18] <ochosi> well they take the full width of a menubar while providing 1 item
[12:18] <ochosi> that is lame
[12:18] <Unit193> ochosi: But not unexpected at all. :/
[12:19] <ali12341> but generally they only have one menu under them
[12:19] <ochosi> Unit193: unexpected things still happen ;) (systemd)
[12:19] <ochosi> ali12341: yup, gnome3 shows that in the panel
[12:19] <ochosi> which is weird imo, having the gear-menu in the window-deco and that other menu in the panel
[12:19] <ali12341> i don't understand
[12:20] <ochosi> there are 2 menus in gnome3
[12:20] <ochosi> the appmenu (with global settings for the app) in the panel
[12:20] <ochosi> and the gear-menu, which is in the client-side decorations
[12:20] <ali12341> like xfce4-panel?
[12:20] <ochosi> (not sure how the latter is called)
[12:20] <ochosi> no, only in gnome3's panel
[12:20] <ali12341> so we can't access that menu at all?
[12:20] <ochosi> for us that's in the menubar
[12:21] <ali12341> where?
[12:21] <ochosi> that's already the fallback
[12:21] <ochosi> e.g. in file-roller in trusty
[12:21] <ali12341> sorry i still don't understand :S
[12:22] <ochosi> appmenu: http://picomol.de/wp-content/uploads/libreoffice_4.2-gnome_appmenu.png
[12:22] <ali12341> can you show me with gthumb?
[12:22] <ochosi> that gets converted to a single menubaritem
[12:22] <ochosi> no, gthumb uses the headerbar, which is something else again
[12:22] <ochosi> let me see whether i can find a screenshot with both
[12:23] <ochosi> ok, e.g. http://scr3.golem.de/screenshots/1205/gnome_36_design/thumb620/calculator-app-menu.png
[12:23] <ali12341> so if you run unpatched calculator on xfce where does that menu appear?
[12:23] <ochosi> as a single item in the menubar
[12:23] <ochosi> no other options, only these
[12:23] <ali12341> what does it look like?
[12:23] <ochosi> like a regular menubar
[12:23] <ochosi> but it should have 3 items in that menubar
[12:23] <ochosi> like it currently has
[12:24] <ochosi> that's what the fallback mode does
[12:24] <ochosi> sry, gotta quickly run out
[12:24] <ochosi> bbiab
[12:39] <ochosi> ali12341: this is what i called the "gear menu": http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/GNOME-s-File-Manager-Will-Be-More-User-Friendly-409360-4.png
[12:40] <ochosi> ali12341: and here you can see both, although not in action: http://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/files/2013/12/radiance4.png
[12:43] <ali12341> what's a good way to create a NULL widget that doesn't draw anything?
[13:03] <ochosi> hey sergio-br2 
[13:03] <ochosi> how's it going with the folders?
[13:04] <ochosi> ali12341: why would you wanna do that?
[13:04] <ochosi> or where
[13:04] <ali12341> headerbar has "custom title" widget
[13:04] <ali12341> if you set it it hides the normal title
[13:06] <ochosi> aha
[13:06] <ochosi> actually for xfce we can simply hide it in the theme
[13:07] <ali12341> oh, okay then :)
[13:07] <ali12341> this wouldn't work very well anyway
[13:07] <ali12341> there's no way to know if the app hides or unhides it
[13:07] <ochosi> i'll see whether i can tweak the headerbar more during the course of today
[13:08] <ali12341> hiding the close button works quite well though
[13:08] <ochosi> well i can do "fg-color=bg-color"
[13:08] <ochosi> ah, how did you do it?
[13:08] <ali12341> replace the gtk_header_bar_set_show_close_button function with a preload stub that always sets it to false
[13:09] <ochosi> meh, i thought you did it in the theme
[13:09] <ali12341> hmm actually...
[13:09] <ali12341> maybe the header bar could be permanently hidden, and then just catch when it packs things into it and put them somewhere else
[13:10] <ali12341> like a toolbar
[13:12] <ochosi> you wanna patch gtk upstream?
[13:13] <sergio-br2> hey, hello everyone
[13:17] <ali12341> ochosi: it's a runtime patch
[13:22] <sergio-br2> ochosi, i think places96 branch is ready to merge
[13:23] <sergio-br2> it's missing some icons, but you said that they are optional
[13:29] <brainwash_> ochosi: should I remove https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/xubuntu-default-settings/desktop-icon-size ?
[13:31] <brainwash_> a new release of xfdesktop will land in trusty hopefully soon and set the icon size to 48
[13:52] <ali12341> ochosi: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6943234/
[13:54] <ochosi> ali12341: doesn't look very long, so you'd just add this to the xfce session then?
[13:54] <ali12341> i wouldn't recommend anyone actually uses it
[13:55] <ochosi> :)
[13:56] <elfy> brainwash_: 48? wouldn't 24 be better ... :p
[13:56] <ali12341> so are there any apps that have a headerbar with no buttons?
[13:58] <bluesabre> I would hope not
[13:58] <ochosi> ali12341: no, headerbar is always toolbar+window-controls
[13:58] <bluesabre> that completely destroys the purpose
[13:59] <ali12341> i mean no buttons except window controls
[13:59] <ali12341> like calculator
[14:01] <brainwash_> elfy: 48 is now the default (upstream), the grid layout is also more compact now, so it looks similar to thunar's icon view
[14:02] <elfy> was not serious ;)
[14:42] <ali12341> hmm... got another approach... patch GtkHeaderBar out of existence entirely
[14:48] <ochosi> not sure that has good chances of getting merged upstream
[14:49] <ali12341> well it's still a runtime patch
[14:50] <ochosi> brainwash_: yeah, feel free to drop that one. also, i've already changed greybird accordingly
[14:52] <ali12341> this works surprisingly well
[14:53] <ali12341> basically i patch gtk_header_bar_new to return a GtkBox instead, which has nearly all the same API
[14:53] <ali12341> then ignore any operation that isn't adding buttons
[14:54] <ali12341> GtkBox, when empty, uses no room
[14:54] <ali12341> so this makes the headerbar go away completely unless someone adds a button to it, in which case you only see the buttons, and nothing else
[14:59] <Unit193> Wow.
[15:01] <ochosi> but the theming is probably a bit strange
[15:01] <ochosi> cause it's flat, unlike toolbars
[15:01] <ochosi> (which would probably be the best option, themingwise)
[15:01] <ali12341> yeah, because it is drawn outside the window frame it has no background
[15:02] <ali12341> the buttons are themed correctly
[15:02] <ochosi> ah, hmmm
[15:02] <ochosi> that's a problem, the gtkbox not having/drawing a background (in this case)
[15:02] <ali12341> http://imagebin.org/293678
[15:03] <ochosi> that's a bit ... ouch :)
[15:10] <ali12341> it's fixable :)
[15:10] <ochosi> yeah, i guess
[15:10] <ochosi> i'm just wondering whether the simple theming trick to make it look like a toolbar is better/easier/safer
[15:11] <ali12341> sure, i'm just doing this for fun
[15:14] <ochosi> i assume you prefer this to writing a UI for panel-switch :}
[15:43] <ali12341> cool, it works
[15:43] <ali12341> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6943801/
[16:57] <pleia2> knome: you about?
[16:57] <pleia2> knome: need you to review a draft post for the site <3
[16:58] <elfy> hi pleia2 
[16:58] <pleia2> hi there elfy 
[16:58] <pleia2> you want to have a look? :D
[16:58] <elfy> can do :)
[16:59] <pleia2> "Xubuntu Marketing with SpreadUbuntu Flyer - Draft"
[16:59] <pleia2> ^^ in the list of posts
[17:01] <elfy> pleia2: yep - assumed as much :)
[17:02] <elfy> pleia2: can I assume that I don't need to ping you re [xubuntu-website] Run social media campaigning for QA during beta milestones: TODO
[17:02] <elfy> when it comes up
[17:03] <elfy> pleia2: post looks good to me
[17:03] <pleia2> elfy: hah, this ping now should be sufficient! I'll put it on my calendar
[17:03] <elfy> lol ok :)
[17:46] <ochosi> thanks sergio-br2, merged places
[17:46] <ochosi> will review the other branches in a bit and then merge them, supposedly
[17:46] <ochosi> after that i'll do a release
[17:46] <sergio-br2> ok
[17:48] <ochosi> reviewed + merged
[18:16] <ochosi> sergio-br2: project for next release: 96px mimes :)
[18:16] <sergio-br2> yeah
[18:16] <sergio-br2> and there are lot of...
[18:16] <sergio-br2> rsrs
[18:16] <ochosi> yup, i know, i've done pretty much all of the 64px ones myself
[18:19] <ochosi> and for after that, i guess 128px mimes...
[18:19] <ochosi> thing is, those are at least used/visible in xfce
[18:19] <ochosi> most other 128px icons never show here
[18:22] <sergio-br2> ochosi, i did the pull request
[21:09] <sanchopanza> testing, testing.
[21:11] <Noskcaj> sanchopanza, yeah, we see you
[21:11] <sanchopanza> cool. anyone available to guide a newbie through getting started with documentation? 
[21:14] <Noskcaj> knome, jjfrv8 ^
[21:14] <Noskcaj> I'm not sure if they're around right now
[21:14] <Noskcaj> Maybe send an email to the xubuntu-devel mailing list
[21:15] <ochosi> slickymaster: ^
[21:15] <ochosi> sanchopanza: depending on how much time you have, you could stick around for a bit
[21:15] <sanchopanza> doesn't look like they're around. i'll try again later. jjfrv8 suggested getting on here for some guidance.
[21:16] <ochosi> maybe some of them show up
[21:16] <ochosi> what kind of docs would you like to work on?
[22:11] <ochosi> jjfrv8, slickymaster: weeeee, good news, xfce has versioned docs now!
[22:11] <knome> ochosi, cool, the patch worked as is?
[22:12] <ochosi> knome: not sure: http://git.xfce.org/www/wiki.xfce.org/commit/?id=4d2f0a6d6ef6ec80149d22eb022384181ca601ea
[22:12] <ochosi> can't remember now what yours looked like
[22:13] <knome> looks similar, but i can't remember what my patch looked like either ;)
[22:13] <ochosi> hehe
[22:13] <ochosi> yeah, no surprise it'll look at least similar ;)
[22:14] <knome> yeah, it's the same code
[22:15] <ochosi> ok cool
[22:15] <knome> yep
[22:15] <knome> nice to be of help ;)
[22:16] <ochosi> well now we can clean up the docs on bluesabre's wiki and then i can push them upstream \o/
[22:18] <ochosi> knome: actually nick did a bit more than just merge your patch, he also added another helper function in libxfce4ui so apps can send their version for the docs
[22:18] <knome> :)
[22:18] <knome> well that's nice
[22:18] <ochosi> (right now it sends the desktop-version)
[22:18] <ochosi> yup
[22:18] <ochosi> very cool improvement
[22:19] <ochosi> so we can in fact do parole-docs per version now
[22:25] <ochosi> hmm, meh, seems like xfdesktop4.11 still sends "4.10" as xfce version
[22:26] <ochosi> so i guess we'd need the new feature of libxfce4ui for that to work then
[22:31] <knome> heh