[00:59] <pleia2> so launchpad still has its own single sign on, it doesn't use USSO
[01:00] <pleia2> you need both, separate accounts to contribute to both
[01:05] <pleia2> (made a couple edits to the page reflecting this)
[01:07] <knome> really?
[01:08] <knome> that's a bit weird.
[01:09] <knome> isn't launchpad supposed to be under the SSO (already)?
[01:10] <knome>  both login.launchpad.net and login.ubuntu.com show me the "last authenticated" information
[01:11] <pleia2> the same?
[01:11] <knome> yes, the same
[01:11] <knome> thanks for the voice of sanity
[01:11] <pleia2> Launchpad account management is provided by the Ubuntu Single Sign On service
[01:11] <pleia2> aha
[01:12] <pleia2> but can you use your ubuntu SSO to log into launchpad?
[01:12] <knome> well,
[01:12] <knome> i used to only have a launchpad account
[01:12] <knome> then it was converted into a ubuntu SSO account
[01:12] <knome> so i don't exactly know...
[01:12] <pleia2> mine's still a launchpad.net account, I use it for openstack stuff
[01:12] <knome> but i would guess yes, because existing users were converted as well
[01:13] <knome> how do you know that?
[01:13] <pleia2> well I guess I don't if it's all under the hood stuff
[01:13] <knome> heh
[01:13] <knome> well i mean
[01:13] <knome> how do you determine if it's still a launchpad account?
[01:13] <pleia2> I use all the same api calls and stuff when authenticating
[01:14] <knome> mmh, but i would imagine that's all openid stuff
[01:14] <belkinsa> It's OpenID.
[01:14] <belkinsa> So, LP = Ubuntu One...or to me.
[01:14] <knome> https://launchpad.net/~knome still says my openid login is https://launchpad.net/~knome
[01:15] <belkinsa> Ditto but for belkinsa
[01:15] <pleia2> anyway, this is why I suggested testing things so we could clarify the docs, I'm still confused :)
[01:15] <knome> i'm wondering if a completely new ubuntu SSO user would have to confirm they actually want a launchpad account created
[01:15] <pleia2> knome: me too
[01:15] <knome> that's the only thing i'm not sure about
[01:15] <belkinsa> I could test that.
[01:16] <knome> once that's done (if it's needed), the ubuntu SSO/LP accounts should be exactly the same thing
[01:16] <knome> belkinsa, if you please could :)
[01:16] <belkinsa> On it.
[01:16]  * knome is interested as well
[01:16] <pleia2> in my blog post about testing I said you needed accounts on both, so :)
[01:17] <pleia2> this also caused confusion to a xubuntu tester
[01:18] <belkinsa> Look what I got when I updated my new account: "您的账户详情已被成功更新"
[01:18] <belkinsa> Which is, "Your account details have been successfully updated".
[01:18] <belkinsa> O.o
[01:18] <knome> updated? :)
[01:19] <belkinsa> The new one.  I needed to change my username.
[01:19] <knome> pleia2, is there a way to remove ubuntu SSO accounts?
[01:19] <pleia2> no idea
[01:20] <belkinsa> It seems that you only need to "update" your details on LP once you get an Ubuntu One account, just like when you change e-mails.
[01:20] <pleia2> but what if you don't have a LP account? the question is whether ubuntu SSO creates one
[01:20] <pleia2> or if you need to sign up separately
[01:21] <belkinsa> Ah, so the other way?  I can test that also.
[01:21] <pleia2> both ways really, I've always told people they needed both, but apparently I have no idea
[01:23] <belkinsa> Think the name "Single Log On" implies that you can log on to any of the Ubuntu sites that allow it.
[01:23] <belkinsa> I was able to access the comments system of the LoCo Council's blog and comment on their last post.
[01:23] <pleia2> sure, but launchpad used to run it's own openid service, so it's special
[01:24] <knome> yeah, you need to enable a launchpad account
[01:24] <belkinsa> Yup, as I guessed.  LP account creates a Ubuntu One account.
[01:25] <knome> i'm not sure if it's happening the other way.
[01:25] <belkinsa> "Launchpad:All content published under your launchpad user will remain public unless you deactivate your launchpad account first. "  when you delete the account.
[01:25] <pleia2> so should we be telling people to sign up for both? or just lp?
[01:25] <belkinsa> Other places: 'Landscape, Ubuntu wiki sites, Ubuntu Forum and AskUbuntu accounts won't be deleted, but you will lose access to those too. You should contact each team if you want to make sure each of those are eliminated too. "
[01:25] <knome> i did the registration process, and i'm not sure at which point the launchpad account was created.
[01:25] <belkinsa> LP = Ubuntu One.
[01:26] <belkinsa> You just need to confirm your details on LP.
[01:26] <pleia2> so you create an ubuntu SSO account, then go to LP and log in with the same username and password as USSO?
[01:27] <belkinsa> Yes.
[01:27] <pleia2> gotcha
[01:27] <belkinsa> Single sign-on has it's meaning for all Ubuntu services.
[01:28] <pleia2> it's just confusing because it didn't exist a couple years ago, we used to use LP to log into everything, then there was LP and USSO, now they've merged I guess, but maintain their own URLs and stuff
[01:28] <belkinsa> I think they have merged but as you said maintain their URLs.
[01:28] <pleia2> and it's not really obvious that you can log into LP with your Ubuntu SSO info
[01:28] <knome> it's not a complete merge.
[01:28] <belkinsa> Look at this list: http://i.imgur.com/tlTKZeY.png LP is on that.
[01:29] <pleia2> knome: yeah, it's a bit goofy :)
[01:29] <knome> so basically,
[01:29] <knome> once you've set up Ubuntu SSO,
[01:29] <knome> you go login with your credentials in launchpad
[01:29] <belkinsa> Yes.
[01:29] <knome> and it will ask you to "update your detaisl"
[01:29] <belkinsa> Yup.
[01:30] <knome> when you do that, a ~launchpad-user will be created
[01:30] <knome> but not before that
[01:30] <belkinsa> Yes.
[01:30] <pleia2> you go login with your SSO credentials in launchpad
[01:30] <pleia2> (just to be clear)
[01:30] <knome> so signing up for USSO does *not* create a launchpad user.
[01:30] <belkinsa> Yes, pleia2 has it
[01:30] <knome> pleia2, yep.
[01:30] <knome> however,
[01:30] <knome> as i assume,
[01:30] <belkinsa> More like the profile for LP
[01:30] <knome> creating a launchpad account
[01:30] <belkinsa> If that made any sense.
[01:30] <knome> will create a ubuntu SSO account
[01:31] <knome> pleia2, you know gravatar?
[01:31] <pleia2> so I guess it sounds easier if we just tell people to sign up for LP
[01:31] <pleia2> knome: yeah
[01:31] <belkinsa> pleia2, that works.
[01:31] <pleia2> (like we did tell people before I started this mess)
[01:31] <knome> pleia2, think it this way: USSO is gravatar, launchpad is just a site that uses that feature
[01:31] <knome> (but allows much more features with the same credentials)
[01:31] <pleia2> yeah
[01:31] <belkinsa> Gravatar is like everywhere.
[01:32] <knome> belkinsa, that was just an analogy ;)
[01:32] <belkinsa> Ah, duh...
[01:32]  * belkinsa facepalms
[01:32] <knome> and by the way
[01:32] <knome> to be able to create a launchpad account
[01:32] <pleia2> USSO also slurps info from launchpad, which is clever
[01:32] <knome> (at least if you first created a USSO account)
[01:33] <knome> you need to verify your email address
[01:33] <belkinsa> No for both.
[01:33] <knome> which is probably valuable information
[01:33] <knome> well you only need to verify once
[01:33] <knome> because you verify your account to USSO
[01:33] <belkinsa> Yup, just once.
[01:33] <knome> whatever the URL was where you verified
[01:33] <knome> but to use USSO itself... you don't need to verify
[01:33] <knome> afaiui
[01:34] <belkinsa> Right, the place you signed up first.
[01:34] <belkinsa> afaiui?
[01:34] <pleia2> as far as I understand it
[01:34] <belkinsa> Ah.
[01:34] <knome> belkinsa, doesn't matter
[01:34] <knome> what i'm saying,
[01:35] <knome> it looks like you only need to verify if you want to create the launchpad account
[01:35] <belkinsa> Ah.
[01:35] <knome> though it might be the same for all services that wishes to use the SSO login
[01:36] <belkinsa> Then you have to verify to the site that you want to log in before getting back to the page that you were on.
[01:36] <belkinsa> Minus the wiki, it seems to take you back to the home page of the wiki,
[01:37] <knome> hmm...
[01:37] <knome> i should start to use "Usso Test" as my italian online igcognito name
[01:37] <knome> https://launchpad.net/~ussotest
[01:38] <belkinsa> I used Barsook for testing but I deleted that account already.
[01:38] <knome> well i was too hasty.
[01:38] <knome> that was left...
[01:38] <knome> https://launchpad.net/~ussotest2
[01:38] <knome> i actually created two... O:(
[01:38] <knome> O:) too
[01:38] <belkinsa> I had a belkinsa-i
[01:39] <belkinsa> Anyways, should this be fixed on the page?
[01:40] <knome> i would say the best way for new users is to create a launchpad account directly (unless they have ubuntu SSO, in which case they should be told to login to LP with those creds)
[01:41] <knome> and for those who don't have either, mention that creating a LP account actually creates an SSO account as well.
[01:41]  * pleia2 nods
[01:41] <belkinsa> Alright, on it.
[01:41] <pleia2> thanks knome and belkinsa :)
[01:41] <belkinsa> Not a problem.
[01:42] <belkinsa> Thanks knome for stepping up to the plate.
[01:42] <knome> no problem
[01:42] <knome> it's actually useful to know how it's done.
[01:42] <belkinsa> Agreed.
[01:42] <belkinsa> And you scored a homerun.  ;)
[01:42] <knome> even if it means some extra LP accounts... :P
[01:42] <knome> hah ;)
[01:44] <belkinsa> Done.
[01:46] <belkinsa> And made a small change.
[01:47] <knome> we actually didn't confirm if editing the wiki needs a LP account, or a ubuntu SSO account
[01:47] <knome> belkinsa, or did you? :)
[01:47] <belkinsa> Crap.
[01:48] <knome> it's a minor detail, but...
[01:48] <belkinsa> I'm assuming either since it's all linked to SSO.
[01:48] <knome> either meaning, SSO
[01:48] <knome> because SSO is the central account
[01:48] <belkinsa> That.
[01:48] <knome> it allows you to login to launchpad
[01:49] <knome> and it always allows you to login to wiki (supposedly)
[01:49] <belkinsa> Yes.  That's what I'm assuming.
[01:49] <knome> but the wiki and launchpad accounts are not actually linked in any way
[01:49] <knome> except that they are linked to the same ubuntu sso account
[01:49]  * knome goes poking the wikipage
[01:50] <belkinsa> How did someone forget to change this page when it happened?  How sad.
[01:51] <knome> the WikiGuide pages aren't high traffic
[01:51] <belkinsa> Ah.
[01:54] <knome> page edited
[01:55] <belkinsa> Which one
[01:55] <belkinsa> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/Registration?
[01:55] <knome> that
[01:55] <belkinsa> Nevermind, I see the changes and why did I not do that.
[01:56] <knome> :)
[01:56] <belkinsa> But should we say something about other accesses?
[01:56] <belkinsa> I mean access to other services.
[01:56] <knome> i guess not
[01:57] <knome> because we're not telling them to create a LP account
[01:57] <knome> so we don't need to tell them "btw, you also have a Ubuntu One account"
[01:57] <belkinsa> RIght.
[01:57] <knome> pleia2, also, ping, it's called "Ubuntu One account" now
[01:58] <knome> i guess the one last thing to check is that if the wiki editing works without a LP account
[01:58] <knome> belkinsa, want to test that?
[01:59] <pleia2> knome: makes my brain hurt
[01:59] <knome> pleia2, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M68GeL8PafE
[01:59] <belkinsa> I hate to say this but no, I deleted my account but you said that you have a spare LP account test with.
[02:00] <knome> i don't, but i don't mind recreating one :)
[02:00] <knome> just a sec.
[02:00] <belkinsa> Oh
[02:01] <pleia2> knome: omg, that's one of my favorite skits!
[02:01] <pleia2> it will have to come out
[02:01] <pleia2> out? of my head?
[02:03] <knome> hehe
[02:03] <knome> the ending is the best
[02:03] <belkinsa> That made my day.
[02:03] <belkinsa> Thanks.
[02:04] <knome> now, could they please log me in to the community wiki
[02:04] <pleia2> no
[02:04] <knome> seems to take forever.
[02:04] <belkinsa> I have some issues some times with that.
[02:05] <knome> oh yes.
[02:05] <knome> i'm logged in
[02:05] <knome> with no launchpad account
[02:05] <pleia2> winner
[02:05] <knome> which is silly
[02:05] <belkinsa> So no go?
[02:05] <knome> well yes go.
[02:06] <belkinsa> Ah, misunderstood you.
[02:06] <knome> wait
[02:06] <knome> i'm logged in...
[02:06] <knome> but i can't seem to be able to edit pages
[02:06] <belkinsa> You need to log in again
[02:06] <pleia2> refresh 14 times or so
[02:06] <knome> haha.
[02:06] <pleia2> caches get wonky
[02:06] <belkinsa> Did it take you back to the home page
[02:06] <knome> no, i'm logged in
[02:07] <knome> the banner says "Logout"
[02:07] <knome> but the other banner doesn't say "Edit"
[02:07] <knome> it says "Immutable page"
[02:07] <belkinsa> Cache issue as pleia2 said.
[02:07] <knome> doubt so
[02:07] <belkinsa> I even said that in my outline.
[02:07] <pleia2> it's a pretty common thing for people to encounter
[02:07] <knome> pleia2, i know, i encounter it as well
[02:08] <pleia2> usually if they log in with another browser it's ok
[02:08] <knome> well here's the thing
[02:08] <knome> when i log in to this wiki with my real account
[02:08] <knome> it wants information from my account
[02:08] <knome> and it needs my username as well
[02:08] <knome> now, with this new account
[02:08] <knome> i don't have a username
[02:08] <pleia2> ah, no lp so no username
[02:08] <knome> yep.
[02:08] <belkinsa> Ah.
[02:08] <knome> so apparently that's why i can't edit.
[02:08] <pleia2> so we do need to tell people to get a lp account
[02:09] <knome> so there *is* a connection with these two
[02:09] <knome> it's a ... weird connection
[02:09] <belkinsa> D'oh.  That's where the username is coming from!
[02:10] <knome> if i ever built a centralized login service, i wouldn't require users to have registered to another service with it to be able to work with another
[02:10] <knome> so yes, we will basically need to tell people to get LP accounts
[02:10] <knome> which is sane in any case
[02:10] <belkinsa> Agreed
[02:12] <knome> boo
[02:14] <belkinsa> Well, thanks for everything.  It's bed time for me
[02:15] <knome> belkinsa, nighty :)
[02:18] <knome> pleia2, ping, see the page now, should be as complete as it gets
[02:19] <knome> well, one can add information on "how do i check if i have a X account"
[02:19]  * pleia2 thumbs up
[02:21] <knome> i feel like i need to write a blog article on this >__<
[02:21] <pleia2> yes, do it
[02:21] <pleia2> we did all that work!
[02:21] <pleia2> (you two did, I watched)
[02:23] <knome> haha
[02:23] <knome> i will
[02:23] <knome> just not today
[02:23] <knome> well, maybe today
[02:23] <knome> but not... before i sleep :P
[17:12] <belkinsa> knome, ping.
[17:13] <knome> belkinsa, pong
[17:14] <belkinsa> Question about the @ubuntu.com e-mail, can users use to send e-mails?
[17:14] <knome> belkinsa, there is no mailbox for those, so not really
[17:15] <belkinsa> Well, I know there is a way...with tricking your mail service.
[17:15] <belkinsa> But not really worth doing.
[17:15] <knome> yep
[17:16] <belkinsa> My @ubuntusense.com e-mail has no box but I have it that I said that I said.
[18:34] <shaunm_> belkinsa: you can configure your mail client to use your @ubuntu.com as the From field without actually using an ubunut.com SMTP server
[18:34] <shaunm_> I do it with my @gnome.org address
[18:35] <belkinsa> I done that but I can't seem to send via Thunderbird.