[00:00] i notice there are daily-live builds for trusty [00:01] Give them a go, but like I said, no one really maintains the package [00:02] i wouldn't expect an unreleased daily-live to work [00:02] but if it does .... :) [00:03] Active is under such . . . err . . . active development that it wouldn't even be entirely surprising if it works better just simply by virtue of using newer packages. [00:04] well, backporting cmake was a fruitless excercise [00:04] * keithzg_ was meaning to try it on my Nexus 7 before it broke while tripping over housemate's cat, sigh. [00:05] DonkeyHotei: I'd say just try out regular KDE4 [00:05] and customize to your needs [00:05] remind me to tell people not to get a nexus 7 [00:06] regular kde4 does not give me the impression of being touch-friendly [00:06] DonkeyHotei: You can't anymore though, unless it's the 2013 model you're trying it on, in which case the drivers in *buntu aren't necessarily even expected to work AFAIK. [00:13] * shadeslayer heads to bed [00:39] Any kdevelop experts around? [00:42] I'm having a hell of a time getting build configs to work. [01:15] Does anybody really use kdevelop? Am I the only one resisting Qt Creator? [01:17] everyone resists using creator... until they try it [01:49] Well I'll try to get it set up in Creator then. Its build settings seem far more flexible. [03:50] This is just insane... my CMakeCache.txt shows that I'm going to the correct $HOME/local path for the headers, but it's still pulling the wrong header. [04:03] Booya [04:03] Turns out it was only accidentally finding the QAPT includes! [04:03] They weren't in the include path for CMakeLists.txt [04:24] I hate it when you spend like four hours troubleshooting build problems that - once resolved - only amount to a single line changed in a build config. [04:24] Either way, I'm done for the day. I'll catch you guys on the flip-side. [05:10] * ahoneybun installing Arch Linux is a lot harder then it used to be === soee_ is now known as soee [09:39] Good morning. [10:27] ahoneybun: what's the attraction of arch linux? I've yet to try it === ronnoc_ is now known as ronnoc [10:30] FYI link in the ISO testing page to download the current i386 Kubutnu test build is broken: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/310/builds/61647/downloads [10:31] ronnoc: that's probably for some old alpha, make sure you pick the daily test [10:31] ronnoc: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/308/builds/63051/downloads [10:31] hmmm ok thx [10:32] yepps I was on the Alpha 2 page [10:37] Riddell: I guess we should update the topic in here :D [10:43] this is strange... I seem to have an ubuntu session running at the same time as my kde session :/ === Riddell changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - So Blue. | https://trello.com/kubuntu | Reports http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ | Discover Featured Apps http://goo.gl/OlIky1 [11:22] apachelogger: thoughts about closing bug 975327 [11:22] bug 975327 in Amarok "libhupnp 1.0.0, cagibi >=0.2, kio-upnp-ms, all needed in repositories" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/975327 [11:26] apachelogger: do you know how to close all bugs related to a package via edit@bugs.launchpad.net ? [11:31] shadeslayer: yeah close it [11:32] Riddell: see my question right after the bug [11:38] shadeslayer: that I've no idea [11:39] shadeslayer: do you have the bug number of the issue that needed intltool support? [11:40] see trello [11:40] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/1234106 [11:40] Launchpad bug 953342 in intltool (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1234106 Add support for Qt Designer UI files" [Medium,Triaged] [11:40] Riddell: would be nice to get this landed soon [11:41] thanks, it's landed just not released [11:43] Hiyas all [11:43] Riddell: landed in the archive :) [11:45] Riddell: anything on your radar that needs to happen before FF? [11:48] huh, neat site http://pkgs.org/ [11:48] apachelogger: " I would prefer to use Ubuntu Trusty once it's released. It might lead to confusion if packages are available before "the masses" can install them." [11:49] apachelogger: from maintainer of screenshots.debian.net [11:50] Awesome link shadeslayer :) [11:52] shadeslayer: I want to check on owncloud, most other things are in [11:52] Riddell: ok, I plan on updating ktp today [11:52] and making sure everything else is in [11:53] Riddell: I'll need someone to accept pam-kwallet [11:53] I'm here for you [11:53] Riddell: however, we want to block that in proposed till 4.13 comes out [11:54] is there a way to magically check ABI? (asks lamarque of nm) [11:54] oh I wonder if plasma-media-centre needs an update too [11:54] there's a abi checker tool [11:54] where? [11:54] abicheck - binary compatibility checking tool [11:54] !info abicheck [11:54] abicheck (source: abicheck): binary compatibility checking tool. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.2-5 (saucy), package size 33 kB, installed size 148 kB [11:55] http://ispras.linuxbase.org/index.php/ABI_compliance_checker [11:56] I thought 12.04.4 was out [11:56] I did too [11:58] Riddell: are you going to review the l10n notifier? otherwise I'll write a test plan and upload [11:59] apachelogger: where is it? [11:59] shadeslayer: to close all bugs you'll have to use the API to query all open bugs, or you manually compile a list [11:59] :( [11:59] Riddell: lp:kubuntu-notification-helper and libkubuntu from git master [11:59] shadeslayer: https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/EmailInterface#bug [11:59] Riddell: driver notifier is in there too [11:59] groovy, will do in a bit [11:59] apachelogger: yeah [12:00] ScottK: qscintilla2 approved, will you handle the rdepends? [12:00] shadeslayer: I guess he really thinks people litterally go to the site and search for stuff [12:00] * apachelogger calls reality for some additional information [12:00] shadeslayer: apparently I neglected to define requirements for the driver manager notifier [12:00] shadeslayer: it most definitely should not call qapt [12:00] oh [12:01] apachelogger: should call the KCM? [12:03] what should happen is: ask that python thing of yours to if there are prop drivers IFF there are then display event, if the user chooses to "Manage Drivers" or "Ignore Permantely" (or whatever it is called) you write it in a config file, IFF the user chose Manage you fire up the KCM and be done with it. IFF the config value is written you do not do any additional notification as we basically want the user to acknowledge the drivers business [12:03] once and then not annoy him anymore [12:03] (in fact perhaps the config should be written in /etc/ or something so that the message is also not triggered for all users) [12:07] apachelogger: btw how do I pass a scratch KDE repo to tarme? [12:08] you cannot [12:08] alex got all annoyed with me when I proposed that one should be able to define everything manually as well [12:09] mmm [12:09] fine then, I'll just do a git archive on Alex's pam module then [12:09] Riddell: Yes. [12:10] shadeslayer: well it wouldn't have translations as a scratch anyway [12:10] so 90% of the usefulness of tarme goes away right there [12:11] the rest is archive cleanup which is not strictly necessary and can actually be done by git archive as well [12:24] shadeslayer: btw, synpatiks is still in the archive also I failed to find a removal bug https://trello.com/c/AseQLII9 [12:25] oh hm [12:25] ScottK: ^^ [12:26] you still want to file a bug for reference [12:26] yep [12:27] what's the future of kubuntu's init system? [12:27] systemd [12:27] ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/synaptiks/+bug/1281564 [12:27] Launchpad bug 1281564 in synaptiks (Ubuntu Trusty) "Please remove synaptiks from Trusty" [Undecided,New] [12:33] Riddell: Riddell!!! amazing things are happening!!!!ELEVENTYONE!!! [12:33] the mailing list is now my private notes archive muhahaha [12:34] jussi: pardon? [12:34] they are selling IRB BRU IN FINLAND!!!! [12:34] hah :) [12:34] I knew you couldn't live off Salmiaki forever [12:34] haha [12:34] its actually reasonably priced... [12:35] €23,90 for a 24 pack [12:35] (330ml) [12:36] reasonably priced and finland [12:36] * apachelogger falls off chair [12:36] hehe [12:37] it's £1 for a 750ml bottle here with 30p return :) [12:37] ah 14.04 unable to use opengl [12:37] :D [12:37] Riddell: sssh, right now Im feeling like Im getting a good deal :P [12:37] damned ati [12:37] Peace-: unable ? [12:38] soee: kwin refuses to use opengl [12:38] propriety drivers ? [12:38] open [12:38] ah :) [12:38] just installed kubuntu 14.04 [12:38] so radeon i guess right? [12:43] installation => nice installation with wifi activated [12:46] Peace-, ati graphics has become hit and miss on linux, unfortunately [12:47] BluesKaj: with x.11.x kernel was fine [12:48] one has to experiment with different drivers, OpenGL settings and composting on most gpus/drivers, but ati seems more difficult now [12:49] "has become" [12:49] yes [12:49] there used to be a time where ever second update to either fglrx or ati caused a kpanic [12:50] I think not having opengl is a somewhat resaonable point of failure in the devel series [12:50] I recall when ati was easy to setup DIR and 3D on elcheapo ati onboard gpus [12:50] apachelogger, it's apita on 13.10 too [12:51] *shrug* [12:51] perhaps the lesson to be learned is use intel graphics? [12:51] since amd purchased ati , linux support is spotty [12:52] jussi: postponing the activity for activites thing I am [12:52] apachelogger: yeah, do so, given the lack of upstream time atm [12:52] apachelogger, yeah that's why i use nvidia and intel [12:53] * apachelogger really wonders what to do with the apport card :'< [12:53] Riddell, shadeslayer: https://trello.com/c/0tn1vYPN did anyone ever get anywhere with this [12:54] apachelogger: I don't think anyone has looked at it [12:57] I think shadeslayer did [12:58] ahoneybun: are you around? [12:58] Riddell: sonnet + email sent ready [13:02] sgclark: cirkuit accepted into the archive! [13:02] nice :) [13:03] apt-cache search modemman [13:03] tsk [13:04] Riddell: did you see my email on my symbols error theory? [13:04] sgclark: yes but still to read it properly, will do shortly [13:04] ok no problem [13:07] shadeslayer: you might want to comment https://trello.com/c/bmg4cNW9 === apachelogger changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - So Blue. | https://trello.com/kubuntu | Reports http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ [13:22] Riddell: threadweaver done, which finishes t1 [13:24] yay! [13:25] * apachelogger drops muon from desktop seed [13:26] gosh [13:27] https://www.kubuntuforums.net/showthread.php?64774-13-10-to-14-04 [13:27] much horray. [13:28] much hooray, such wow? [13:35] http://paste.ubuntu.com/6954433/ [13:35] Riddell: did the foundations seed change or something [13:40] apachelogger: platform seed it would be [13:40] but I'm not sure where arches are defined in seeds [13:41] remember you fixed kubuntu-desktop on arm64 ppc64el [13:43] yeah, but I updated after those [13:43] and there were no changes to our seed meanwhile, so the amount of movery there is supsicious [13:44] shadeslayer: Riddell: to be on the safe side could one of you please run a kubuntu-meta update as well, see if you get the same result [13:45] apachelogger: will do, later in the evening [13:46] -.- [13:46] that's litterally two commands [13:47] apachelogger: onto it [13:47] fine ... [13:48] * Riddell had to install germinate so it's three commands [13:48] Riddell: how can you live without germinate ^^ [14:00] apachelogger: I actually don't see a way to get all the bugs for a source from the API [14:01] https://api.launchpad.net/1.0.html#source_package < no bugs method [14:01] apachelogger: I get the same, lots of removed from ppc64el [14:02] Riddell: kconfig was ready last week but is still v4.95.0 in experimental [14:03] * Riddell fixes [14:03] apachelogger: same here [14:06] Riddell: can i ask one thing that i have never undesterstood of kde ? http://wstaw.org/m/2014/02/18/plasma-desktopS25595.png if i put here webcam up when i start pulse it just use the default internal mic [14:07] Riddell: it should not use instead the webcam mic ? [14:08] shadeslayer: source_package searchTasks() ? [14:09] mhmm [14:22] Riddell: any idea what is going on with these symbols? I am not getting these errors and updating symbols file results in exact same symbols file [14:27] sgclark: I think it's just the weirdness of ABI symbols, for some reason they're suddenly different on amd64 than on i386 [14:28] Riddell: oh hmm, I do not have an i386, so not sure what I can do there [14:29] sgclark: not much we can do except just upload to the PPA then fix when it breaks [14:30] sgclark: download the buildlog and update the .symbols file for i386 with pkgkde-symbolshelper batchpatch -v 4.96.0 < buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-i386.kwidgetsaddons_4.96.0-0ubuntu1~ubuntu14.04~ppa2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt [14:30] sgclark: I've uploaded the ones which have failed so far [14:30] (you can run bzr update to pull in the update) [14:31] ok thank you [14:38] sgclark: kimageformats has an even more spooky issue [14:38] a test failure but only on i386 [14:39] right that jp2, I am stumped [14:45] apachelogger: email to lp sent to close all synaptiks bugs [14:47] apachelogger: also, regarding proprietary drivers, I think notification should only be shown if the drivers are recommended and not installed [14:47] consistency across KCM and event notifier then [14:48] shadeslayer: actually I think I would show it regardless [14:49] shadeslayer: talk to pitti though, I am reasonable certain he has a thought on when to show the notification [14:56] * Riddell updates kwidgetsaddons [14:56] Riddell: pkgkde-symbolshelper: error: no valid patches found for kwidgetsaddons [14:56] hah [14:57] what directory do I need to run that in? Riddell [14:57] for future reference [14:58] * apachelogger is off for the rest of the day [15:00] apachelogger, have beer for me [15:00] a beer :) [15:01] sgclark: same directory as has debian/ [15:01] Riddell: what I thought, weird [15:03] testing from git on ec2 that kimageformats test fails on i386 but not on amd64 [15:04] 15:03 < ervin> and get ready for alpha 2 end of next week! [15:04] gosh more kf5 to come [15:05] Ugh not on Saturday again? [15:06] dunno, whenever dfaure does it I guess [15:07] Seems to fall on my weekends with hubby, I will try to sort out being there this round [15:08] I am free this weekend lol [15:09] Riddell: can you upload ktp from https://launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+archive/nightly [15:10] Riddell: in another 40 mins [15:10] what happens in 40 minutes? [15:11] upgrade completes, I can confirm that nothing has broken :) [15:11] Riddell: knotifications ready [15:35] Riddell: kcompletion ready [15:58] sgclark: uploaded! [15:58] Riddell: not sure what I am doing wrong, pkgkde-symbolshelper batchpatch does not seem to work for me [15:59] sgclark: what are you running? [15:59] pkgkde-symbolshelper batchpatch -v 4.96.0 < ../buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-i386.knotifications_4.96.0-0ubuntu1~ubuntu14.04~ppa2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz in the source folder [16:00] sgclark: you need to gunzip the build logs [16:00] ahhh got it thanks! [16:00] sgclark: note I already did knotifications [16:00] ok :) [16:13] shadeslayer: ktp uploading.. [16:13] \o/ [16:20] Riddell: kjobwidgets ready [16:23] apachelogger: do you think we can drop jockey from Alpha 2 [16:23] not from alpha 2 [16:23] but from alpha 3 sure [16:29] ok [16:35] apachelogger: should we have links to things like: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Delegation on the policy/kubuntu council page? [16:36] jr@wido:~/src/seeds/kubuntu.trusty>bzr commit -m "add kubuntu-driver-manager, remove jockey" [16:36] shadeslayer: ↑ [16:36] Riddell: \o/ [16:36] Riddell: ++ [16:36] kubotu: karma Riddell [16:36] karma for Riddell: 6 [16:36] :D [16:42] Riddell: kauth ready [16:45] sgclark: I'm updating watch files to make them work [16:46] Riddell: ok [16:55] apachelogger: for councl election I suggest "Nominations should be asked for at least two weeks in advance of the vote. The vote should use the Condorcet Internet Voting Service and last two weeks." [16:55] see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Policies#Election_Process_.28.28TBD.29.29 [16:58] "Requirements: More than six months acitivty" that seems a bit harsh for kubuntu members [17:00] are there any trusty images that have kernels that support non pae hardware? (pentium m) [17:01] Riddell: kcrash ready [17:02] seaLne: no i think non-pae was all dropped [17:03] bah [17:03] seaLne: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PAE suggests you need to use a 12.04 mini-iso as your best option [17:03] ty [17:03] apachelogger: I'm not convinced that ~kubuntu-packagers should be only ~kubuntu-members [17:04] likewise ~kubuntu-ppa [17:05] shadeslayer: i installed from the kubuntu-active daily-live of trusty into virtualbox, got the same black screen as the real install of saucy [17:06] maybe Riddell has answers ^^ [17:11] DonkeyHotei: yeah it doesn't work [17:11] fixes welcome [17:12] I'd say poke active people with startactive logs [17:14] i also tried the plasma active project's livecd under virtualbox, and the onscreen keyboard was buggered [17:16] Riddell: could you look at KDE Workspace 4.11.6 in staging [17:16] I have no clue how to fix it [17:21] shadeslayer: ok [17:34] Riddell: hmm, so Alex's PAM module doesn't really install anything at the moment [17:35] Riddell: thoughts on how to proceed? We either don't do PAM support this cycle, or ship a empty package now and wait for 4.13 to land [17:35] shadeslayer: empty package! [17:36] or we apply for a FFe [17:36] shadeslayer: we'll have to apply for a FFe for baloo right? [17:36] and for the whole of 4.13 [17:36] I don't want to apply for a FFe :S [17:36] Riddell: yeah [17:36] I /really/ don't want to deal with that [17:37] gosh it's not hard, we even have irc interface to kubotu to file a bug for a new version :) [17:37] * dougl sees the folks in here are on a topic... will just think "good morning" to the channel [17:38] gonnae fix the baloo daily builds in blue-shell-finder, those build failures are annoying [17:38] morning dougl [17:38] morning Riddell :) [17:38] Riddell: kde workspace fixed? [17:38] dougl: planning to become an elite kubuntu ninja? [17:38] shadeslayer: on the todo! [17:39] Riddell: I think kdepimlibs is out of date [17:39] in Blue Shell [17:39] I'll trigger a build [17:39] FFe is Final Freeze exemption? [17:39] I wish... just planning on riding the coat tails of the better people in here and keep my eyes open for anything I can help with... [17:39] Feature [17:40] * genii makes more coffee [17:41] Riddell: so, I'll upload an empty package somewhere [17:42] Riddell: maybe it'll be a good idea to file and get a FFe right now ? :P [17:49] shadeslayer: go ahead :) [17:53] Riddell: https://launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+archive/experimental/+files/pam-kwallet_0.0%7Egit20140218-0ubuntu1.dsc [17:53] or well [17:53] apachelogger: ^^ plz upload [17:53] so Riddell can approve [17:55] can you guys suggest which file to edit to lock icons on the taskbar? i thought i had it figured out but ended up in a world of hurt [17:57] wxl: support in #kubuntu plz [17:57] shadeslayer: hah they sent me here since they felt they couldn't handle scripting advice [17:58] there's a "lock widgets" option [17:58] that [18:00] it would be generally assumed that these scripts would be running when the user is logged out, i.e. they're sitting at the dm. does this scripting advice still apply? [18:01] shadeslayer: http://userbase.kde.org/Plasma/4.2#How_can_I_lock_the_positions_of_the_widgets.3F [18:02] no, scripts are run at startup [18:02] and only once [18:02] and there are special scripts that are run on update [18:02] on every KDE update that is [18:02] so then the scripting you refer to is of little value to me [18:03] and by startup I mean whe you login [18:03] that being said, i'm looking for the file or files to edit [18:03] i've been pretty successful with most things but i haven't been able to decode what changes happen [18:05] grep in ~/.kde/share/config [18:06] just to be clear, you don't know the answer? [18:06] nope [18:06] because i've looked, but haven't found it [18:07] wxl: maybe #plasma knows [18:07] thx [18:09] shadeslayer: hmm this does all seem like a bit of a cheat to get round feature freeze [18:09] I mean there isn't actually a feature in this empty package :) [18:13] hehe [18:14] Riddell: I've already warned you before :p [18:14] Riddell: kdnssd-framework ready [18:16] shadeslayer: misses licence information for cmake/modules/ [18:16] licensecheck didn't warn :S [18:17] that's because it's not properly licenced [18:17] it refers a file which doesn't exist [18:17] tsk [18:17] what's the upstream branch for this? [18:18] Riddell: git@git.kde.org:scratch/afiestas/pam-kwallet.git [18:18] fun fun fun [18:22] shadeslayer: git updated, you can take a new snapshot [18:22] ok === skfin_ is now known as skfin === skfin is now known as Guest85726 [18:24] Riddell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~rohangarg/upload/pam-kwallet_0.0~git20140218.orig.tar.xz [18:29] shadeslayer: mm, got the rest too? :) === Guest85726 is now known as skfini [18:36] Riddell: moment [18:37] Riddell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~rohangarg/upload/pam-kwallet_0.0~git20140218-0ubuntu1.dsc [18:39] shadeslayer: did my reply to "are we set for feature freeze" come through on the list? [18:39] not that I know of [18:39] I don't see it [18:39] * Riddell sends again [18:46] Riddell: did we package ktouchpadenabler ? [18:46] I can't find it in the archives [18:46] oh [18:46] kde-workspace [18:48] yes [18:48] shadeslayer: talk to kcm-touchpad upstream? [18:48] file bugs? [18:48] seems like an important issue, explains why Nim was so annoyed she couldn't use this computer last time she tried [18:55] Riddell: I don't think it'll be possible since they both use X11 libs AFAIK [19:00] shadeslayer: it [19:00] shadeslayer: it'll be possible [19:01] if only by combining them [19:02] shadeslayer: you're asking about kde-workspace in staging for precise? [19:02] yes [19:08] shadeslayer: hmm it's not finding freetype [19:08] yeah [19:08] shadeslayer: there's something about the headers of freetype having been moved recently [19:09] that's trusty, not precise :/ [19:10] And I only remember touching cmake to fix that... [19:10] yofel: huh? [19:11] cmake got fix_freetype_detection.diff recently to find the new include directory [19:12] kde-workspace does build with that new cmake 2.8.12.2 [19:12] shadeslayer: I mean the moving of freetype headers [19:13] shadeslayer: yeah it needs that patch removed from cmake in precise in staging PPA, want me to do that? [19:13] Riddell: go ahead [19:13] Riddell: how about checking if cmake backport isn't actually required [19:13] that would help alot [19:13] manchicken: need packaging done? [19:14] shadeslayer: it's at least nice to have for people developing on precise (which for some reason people do) [19:15] okay [19:27] Riddell: For libqapt that'd be nice. [19:28] But I need to make some minor changes still after Harald's feedback. [19:31] * Riddell blogs http://wire.kubuntu.org/?p=140 [19:31] manchicken: let me know when it's good to package [19:31] Riddell: kdoctools ready, please note I had to patch it [19:32] shadeslayer27.1 GiB (100.00%) of 24.0 GiB27.1 GiB (100.00%) of 24.0 GiB [19:32] ahen [19:33] "27.1 GiB (100.00%) of 24.0 GiB" backports repository full [19:36] how can you tell if something (plymouth) is supposed to be working yet? [19:37] Riddell: :( [19:38] Riddell: you can clean out saucy [19:38] shadeslayer: we can probably get by with using staging for now and copying over [19:39] oh [19:39] this was for backports? [19:40] yeah [19:40] Riddell: Okay, I'm going to try to make those changes Harald mentioned tonight or tomorrow. [19:42] apachelogger: remind me where libkubuntu is again? [19:43] http://quickgit.kde.org/?p=scratch%2Fsitter%2Flibkubuntu.git [19:52] apachelogger: hmm, this latest libkubuntu and kubuntu-notification-helper I get no notification on login if I have kde-l10n-engb uninstalled [19:53] ohohoh [19:53] I just thought of a bug in that department indeed [19:53] if it is your system language but not manually set in the KCM it will actually not be picked up [19:53] -.- [19:54] system settings -> locale seems to take a very long time to start [19:54] ^ that's because the KCM has aaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllll the get-configured-languages logic inside itself rather than in a library that one could use [19:54] Riddell: xapian update [19:54] I guess(Tm) [19:54] you should get a progressbar though [19:54] mm yes [19:54] progress at 0% [19:54] curious [19:55] Riddell: if it is reproducible you might want to get a kdebug output [19:56]