[00:01] * Akiva-Mobile just found out how jerky some people can be when you don't throw your full support behind wayland. "ALL YOU ARE DOING IS REINVENTING THE WHEEL AND FRACTURING THE LINUX COMMUNITY!", with some reference to corporate greed. [00:01] -_- [00:06] in 13.10 i can see the touch templates in the sdk but if I install the ppa and update the templates go away... === chriadam|away is now known as chriadam [00:15] isantop: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/08/unity-8-ubuntu-13-10-arrives should all still work, it'll get you the preview Unity 8 that will run under desktop Unity 7 [00:16] isantop: or you can build it from source with the directions at http://unity.ubuntu.com/getinvolved/development/unity8/ [00:16] Akiva-Mobile: ignore those people, anybody with enough time to complain about what others are building, aren't building anything interesting themselves [00:23] mhall119: heh === ac is now known as Guest60310 === SonikkuAmerica_ is now known as SonikkuAmerica === duflu__ is now known as duflu === SirCmpwn is now known as SirCmpwn_ === SirCmpwn_ is now known as SirCmpwn === SirCmpwn is now known as SirAway [05:34] so, i got one of these old fellows, who has no idea how a computer works [05:34] and is pleasantly enjoying ubuntu [05:34] despite me switching him from windows. He finds it much easier [05:35] i am contemplating, whether though I should take his nexus, and through ubuntu touch on there. [05:35] thoughts? === SirAway is now known as SirCmpmn === SirCmpmn is now known as SirCmpwn [06:29] Akiva-Mobile: I wouldn't do it until Ubuntu 14.04 at the earliest! And in that case make sure it's a Nexus 4. === IdleOne is now known as io === chriadam is now known as chriadam|away [08:05] good morning [08:24] oSoMoN: thanks for the followup! :) [08:34] didrocks, you’re welcome [08:35] (I thought you’d seen the comment on the bug, I should have pinged you yesterday to let you know it had been invalidated) [08:35] oSoMoN: there are so many bugs to track that I can't open every one of them to be fair :) [08:35] yeah, it makes sense [09:19] Good morning all; happy Single Tasking Day! :-D [09:52] My nexus 4 is dead. No red light, nothing. Any suggestions? [09:52] been on charge all night [09:53] no red light even if you hold the button for 5min straight ? [09:53] 5 min? [09:53] i have held it for ~1m [09:53] hold it longer [09:53] k [09:57] right, thats 5 min [10:03] no red light ? [10:13] ogra_: nothing === zsombi1 is now known as zsombi [10:31] popey, i had to remove the battery in mine once, but there i still got the orange light when holding down power for 5 min [10:34] popey ... hmm, i cant install popeysays (testing click installation on maguro) [10:34] "No manifest found for app_id" [10:35] hmm [10:35] and now unity hangs [10:41] ogra_: dunno what that means.. one for dholbach or beuno [10:41] ogra_, is that with the proposed image? [10:41] dholbach, yes, trying to install popeysays on maguro [10:42] i get same with #190 on mako [10:42] oh [10:42] and i just see the icon in both scopes [10:42] seems it isntalled even when giving me the error [10:42] ogra_, popey: a bunch of unity-scope-click changes landed - for some reason I suspect the issue there [10:43] now i can install it and run it from tteh apps scope [10:43] * ogra_ doesnt think it should be like that [10:43] ah no... with "MyMaps" it works (grouper, proposed image) [10:44] ah, well, it starts but is not usable [10:44] i seem to get a scrollable pic with four colors and a black square in the middle [10:44] * ogra_ tries mymaps [10:44] this hung unity the last time when i tried it === thostr_ is now known as thostr_lunch [10:46] ogra_, looks like the popeysays app has a few issues (especially with the namespace) [10:46] so it looks like an app issue [10:46] yeah [10:46] I take back what I said about unity-scope-click [10:46] :) [10:46] mymaps doesnt crash the phone this time [10:49] I unpublished the app [10:49] (popeysays) [11:47] hi Saviq, when you've got a minute, would you mind commenting on bug 1237992 ? I think .desktop file translations in the scopes it's the last big bit left to get a localized UI, and I'd like to come to an agreement on what actually loads those translations - thanks! [11:47] bug 1237992 in unity-scope-click (Ubuntu) "Need to load translations from .desktop files for click apps" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1237992 [11:48] dpm, the scope needs to load them [11:50] dpm, so for installed apps it needs to come from the .mo files, but for remote ones - all translations need to be in the store [11:50] /food [11:50] thanks [11:51] dpm, also, ideally the store would just extract them from .mo files, too [11:52] Saviq, I fully agree on that one, but I think that might a bit more complex and perhaps be step 2 [11:53] dpm, yup === thostr_lunch is now known as thostr_ [11:59] is there an easy way to restart unity/mir after it hangs? [12:00] adb shell sudo -u phablet -i ... [12:00] then just: restart unity8 [12:00] ah, thanks [12:01] hmm, still doesn't recover :/ [12:22] oSoMoN, ping [12:23] cwayne, pok [12:23] oSoMoN, hey, was that gmail tablet fix supposed to have made it in? i can still reproduce the error [12:25] cwayne, according to the status of https://bugs.launchpad.net/webapps-core/+bug/1278702, no, on the apparmor side the bug is assigned but still marked Triaged [12:25] Launchpad bug 1278702 in AppArmor "Gmail webapp fails to load on N10" [Undecided,In progress] [12:26] jdstrand, ^ can we get this fix in? [12:26] oSoMoN, btw i tested out the 8tracks fix, and it seemed to work for me :) [12:26] cwayne, yeah, I’ve seen that, thanks, I’ve requested a landing for the fix [12:26] oSoMoN, lovely, thank you === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach === gatox is now known as gatox_brb === alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [13:19] Someone got an android 4.4 image on mako? [13:20] Please check system settings -> about and see if it shows you an IMEI [13:22] Laney, mine does [13:22] cwayne, do you have a SIM in it ? [13:23] no [13:23] HMM [13:23] sigh ... cant boot my flo today :( [13:23] cwayne: what image? [13:25] Laney, a rootstock'd one [13:29] hmm [13:30] jdstrand, ping === dandrader is now known as dandrader|afk [13:39] cwayne, hmm, should the flo come up in portrait with the default rootfs ? [13:39] or is there some special unity needed for that [13:40] (form the PPA) [13:40] it should be landscape now (i just pushed a new rootfs) [13:40] err s/porttait/landscape/ [13:40] cwayne, wth the cdimage one ? [13:40] i just installed the very latest and i get portrait [13:40] ogra_, i think it should even with that, but i pushed an image made with the demo-stuff ppa [13:41] cwayne: what is in ppa that we need? [13:41] cwayne: yesterday i think people said its just setting the env that isnt in image - but i might got that wrong [13:41] for landscape i'm not sure, i thought it made it into the image [13:41] cwayne, right, i want to work with the normal images [13:41] i know it works with the hacked ones [13:42] * ogra_ has see it on popey's screen this morning [13:42] (with palm sized icons and all) [13:42] that's fixed now :) [13:42] greyback, did the ubuntu-touch-session bits that put flo in landscape not land int he image? [13:42] cwayne, they did land [13:43] (i uploaded them) [13:43] oot@ubuntu-phablet:/# tail -3 /home/phablet/.bashrc [13:43] export GRID_UNIT_PX=21 [13:43] export QTWEBKIT_DPR=2.5 [13:43] export NATIVE_ORIENTATION=landscape [13:43] ooh wait [13:43] i think unity8 needs to be updated [13:43] yet i still get a portrait screen on the default rootfs [13:43] and is in the ppa [13:43] derp [13:43] aha [13:43] sorry, forgot about that :) [13:43] yeah, np [13:43] * greyback goes back under his rock [13:43] just wanted to know what to expect === VDVsx_ is now known as VDVsx === gatox_brb is now known as gatox === alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g [13:56] cwayne: yes, I upload something to fix that === dandrader|afk is now known as dandrader === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow [14:32] hi, what's the different between ubuntu-touch (Ubuntu for phones?) and "Ubuntu for Android"? [14:33] effbiai, ubuntu for android is like an "app" running in an android system [14:33] Ubuntu touch is a standalone system [14:34] (oh, and that "app" runs the ubuntu desktop when attached to a docking station) [14:34] ah, okay [14:34] is there done any development on that ubuntu for android? and does it exist any pre-builds? [14:35] it requires collaboration with a phone manufacturer [14:35] i do find a wiki page for the Touch, but nothing similar for the ubuntu for android [14:35] ah, okay :/ [14:35] its a product and needs some chnages the manufacturer has to do to the android install [14:35] roger that [14:36] is there any news on when such a phone will be released? or should we wait for the MWC maybe? :) [14:37] you mean an ubuntu touch phone ? or do you mean UfA ? [14:37] UfA would require someone like samsung to pick it up and do business with canonical on it ... no idea if there is anything in the queue [14:37] (i doubt it though) [14:53] hey [14:53] ? [14:53] anyone ? [14:53] beuller [14:53] hello karthik [14:54] how to install [14:54] popey, heyo, i've just gotten a bunch of icons from design for apps [14:54] ubuntu for nexus 4 [14:54] popey, whos the right person to ask to get them in the image [14:54] i got a lot of links [14:54] cwayne: which apps? [14:54] karthik: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install [14:54] confusing...arm v7 architecture okay ? [14:55] karthik: its a nexus 4, it's supported [14:55] popey, all of them i think.. let me fwd you an email from design [14:55] ok [14:55] thanks man :D [14:55] so it is just like flashing a rom ? miui ? omni ? cm ? [14:55] Very much so. [14:56] yeah thanks again. :D [14:56] cya later :D helped me much [15:00] ogra_: was reffering to UfA. hopefully MWC will show us some good stuff :) [15:04] effbiai, not for UfA i think [15:08] hi ogra_: if I understood you right, you told me, you know exactly one guy who knows UCM very well. are you in contact with him? maybe he has access to a manual/instruction for UCM. if yes, maybe he could share his information :) [15:08] diwic, ^^^ [15:08] do you know any UCM docs ? [15:09] * ogra_ guesses there has still nobody written anything [15:09] * FuLgOrE_ anyway still hopes to find an instruction [15:09] ;) [15:09] FuLgOrE_, there is very little documentation unfortunately. What information are you looking for? [15:10] diwic, he tries to get his nexus5 to spit out sound ... [15:10] (hammerhead architecture) [15:10] diwic: everything what could be helpful for a bloody linux rooky to get sound on hammerhead working ;) [15:12] FuLgOrE_, have you found anything similar to a ucm or mixer file on the nexus 5 that you can try to translate to our UCM language? [15:12] diwic: I have no idea what I have to set up in HiFi and VoiceCall. I guess the conf-file is not the problem (only call the two files HiFi and VoiceCall) [15:13] ogra_, FuLgOrE_ maybe you can point me to the Nexus 5 sources for the audio HAL [15:13] diwic: I followed the porting guide. there is one section about sound. I simply checked which sound card is in the nexus 5, copied the sample config files and modified it matching to the sound card name [15:14] diwic, should be in the 4.4 branch on phablet.u.c [15:14] * ogra_ doesnt know the exact path though [15:15] do you need the android sources? [15:15] I will try to search for it on google (I hope I understood it right...) [15:15] well, preferably the tree that was used for the img files [15:15] which is somewhere on phablet.u.c [15:16] ogra_, FuLgOrE_ there is a mixer_paths.xml there! [15:16] but since gerrit runs there the gitweb ui is kind of hard to get along with [15:16] * ogra_ blames rsalveti [15:16] :P [15:16] FuLgOrE_, https://code-review.phablet.ubuntu.com/gitweb?p=aosp/device/lge/hammerhead.git;a=blob;f=mixer_paths.xml;h=dde6b8104a6dab2b4996a40bf576ad199c577705;hb=refs/heads/phablet-4.4.2_r1 [15:17] barry: hello! [15:17] FuLgOrE_, that file should give you plenty of hints of what to put in the HiFi file at least [15:17] thank you :) [15:20] diwic: could you please be so kind and also share your instruction about UCM? Maybe that's also helpful. I would like to also share the information in the xda thread and ubuntuusers.de, if it is okay. The more people have access to information, the earlier maybe somebody can solve the problem :) [15:21] diwic, ogra_: thank you guys! [15:22] FuLgOrE_, I don't remember writing more documentation than what's copied into the porting guide [15:23] diwic: oh, okay. anyway thank you for the hint about the mixer_path.xml [15:23] FuLgOrE_, np, happy porting :-) [15:24] could anybody send me the 3 UCM files (.conf, HiFi and VoiceCall) from the nexus 4? thank I could compare the files with the android mixer_path.xml from nexus 4. That could be also helpful I guess [15:25] FuLgOrE_, actually, they are on every Ubuntu desktop, in /usr/share/alsa/ucm [15:25] FuLgOrE_, at least on 13.10 and 14.04 [15:27] diwic: I guess there is only the sample package. I would prefer a real N4 config, if available. for the sample file I would not know from which device I should use the mixer_path.xml to compare it with the hammerhead mixer_path.xml [15:29] FuLgOrE_, https://code-review.phablet.ubuntu.com/gitweb?p=CyanogenMod/android_device_lge_mako.git;a=blob;f=snd_soc_msm_2x_Fusion3;h=42a1c8791abfddda647b517cdccf57887e06f71e;hb=refs/heads/phablet-4.2.2_r1 [15:29] FuLgOrE_, as you can see the format is quite different [15:29] FuLgOrE_, there is no android standard, or rather, more than one standard, for how to specify mixer paths [15:30] diwic: oh, what a pitty. that would be too easy, maybe ;) [15:30] FuLgOrE_, IIRC the nexus 10 had a mixer_paths.xml as well [15:31] so maybe the UCM config files for the N10 would help [15:31] including the N10 mixer_path.xml [15:32] FuLgOrE_, https://code-review.phablet.ubuntu.com/gitweb?p=CyanogenMod/android_device_samsung_manta.git;a=blob;f=mixer_paths.xml;h=a8b53a935c6e6fa897d28191a3ce3a8a3b8aa3bd;hb=refs/heads/phablet-10.1 [15:32] diwic: thx [15:33] FuLgOrE_, and look in /usr/share/alsa/ucm for the Ubuntu version [15:33] fginther, so about that network manager test that failed in otto... Should we just disable the test on desktop and move on? [15:33] diwic: I should find it in the image file, thanks :) [15:35] mterry, I agree with at least enabling the test for touch. Could a bug be filed to track that there is still an issue with the desktop testing setup? [15:36] fginther, sure === gatox is now known as gatox_lunch [15:50] ralsina, do you think somebody from your team can take a look at https://launchpad.net/bugs/1237992? [15:50] Launchpad bug 1237992 in unity-scope-click (Ubuntu) "Need to load translations from .desktop files for click apps" [Medium,Triaged] [15:50] (not sure if this was raised earlier already) [15:50] dholbach: not right away, but sure [15:51] awesome [15:52] fginther, but 1281634 [15:52] fginther, bug 1281634 even [15:52] bug 1281634 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "NetworkManager integration test doesn't work on desktop test machine otto" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1281634 [15:54] mterry, thanks, we have plans to eventually replace otto and run tests directly on the machine. We should revisit this test when that time comes [15:55] fginther, makes sense [15:56] Do the Touch image version numbers reset to 1 with every Ubuntu series? [15:58] mpt, yes [15:58] thanks [15:58] well, they did from saucy to trusty [15:58] So when I report a bug I should include both [15:58] i suppose we technically dont have to [15:59] well, saucy stopped at 101 [15:59] everything above that is clearly trusty (we're at 190 on trusty) [15:59] * ogra_ hopes you dont have a pre 101 on trusty to reports bugs for ... that would be months old ;) [16:00] kgunn: regarding https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-clock-app/+bug/1281622, can you post a screenshot? I am unable to imagine how the interface looks on the Nexus 7 [16:00] Launchpad bug 1281622 in Ubuntu Clock App "clock resizing incorrect on N7 2013 landscape" [Undecided,New] [16:00] cwayne: ^^ [16:01] nik90: ack [16:05] nik90, whats up? [16:05] nik90, want me to try and screenshot [16:06] cywane: yes, either you or kgunn [16:06] cwayne ^^ === dandrader is now known as dandrader|lunch [16:11] nik90, http://people.canonical.com/~cwayne/screenshots [16:11] cwayne: erm,, they are all black ... I don't see the clock at all..is that the bug? [16:12] huh, seems phablet-screenshot does not work on n7 [16:12] good to know... [16:12] cwayne: yeah I dont it works on n7 yet [16:13] cwayne: you need to use your phone to take a sreenie manually [16:13] nik90, ill try and get a picture later [16:13] cwayne: np [16:13] cwayne: just attach to the bug report..I will take a look later [16:14] nik90, sure thing [16:14] thnx [16:30] ogra_: hi, do you have a little time, maybe you remember me, i would like to switch from Saucy to Trusty with "adb shell system-image-cli --channel trusty -b 0 -v" but get this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6945905/ [16:30] robis the phone connected to a wlan ? [16:30] *robert_1 ^^^ [16:31] ogra_: yes [16:31] can you ping say: www.google.com ? [16:32] ogra_: the browser on the phone works fine, what you mean with "ping say: www.google.com"? [16:32] from adb [16:33] log in with adb shell [16:33] ping www.google.com [16:33] ogra_: ah ok, i understand [16:35] ogra_: how can i stop pinging? [16:35] ctrl-c [16:35] so pinging works ? [16:36] --- www.google.com ping statistics --- 52 packets transmitted, 51 received, 1% packet loss, time 51061ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 56.921/319.149/973.050/302.280 ms root@ubuntu-phablet:/# [16:36] ok [16:36] try: ping system-image.ubuntu.com [16:36] and see if that also works [16:37] ogra_: --- system-image.ubuntu.com ping statistics --- 6 packets transmitted, 6 received, 0% packet loss, time 5006ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 64.459/104.786/145.551/25.710 ms root@ubuntu-phablet:/# [16:37] if that works too, try "ystem-image-cli --channel trusty -b 0 -v" again [16:37] *system [16:39] ogra_: my fault, i dont try it with adb shell first, now it works, perfekt, thank you :-) [16:40] was probably a temporary network issue [16:40] ah, cool === gatox_lunch is now known as gatox [16:46] mandel: ping [16:46] barry, pong [16:47] barry, welcome back to the interwebs :) [16:47] ogra_: thanks :) [16:52] ogra_: [systemimage] Feb 18 17:44:47 2014 (3775) rebooting, all right, 14.04 (r188) thanks again for the support [16:53] awesome :) [17:09] ogra_: and more awesome is, now i can recieve short-sms (BUG: Incoming SMS with special sender numbers are discarded (e.g. SMS from Skype)) [17:10] :) [17:31] kgunn: I am curious as to how small (height) is the N7 landscape mode [17:31] kgunn: anyways I will do more testing to fix it [17:42] who should i ping about keyboard issues? [17:42] id usually guess billf but hes not here [17:42] tedg: yo dawg, did you get my email? === dpm is now known as dpm-afk === bschaefer_ is now known as bschaefer === alan_g is now known as alan_g|EOD === dandrader|lunch is now known as dandrader [18:32] hello Hashcode , how is the hdmi driver for the motorola droid 4 comming along? [18:33] the what for the what? [18:33] zzarr: stargo is now working on the D4 [18:34] okey, thanks, I'll here with him then [18:35] zzarr: i was going to work on ubuntu touch more, but I wrecked 2 device's mmc chips moving around so much data so I backed off for a bit [18:35] 1 I was able to recover, the other I'm still looking for a fix for [18:36] sadly my motorola lapdock burnt, I see [18:36] :/ [18:37] and since it's not sold any more motorola is not going to send me a new one, only refund [18:38] zzarr: yeah that's 2 years old now [18:38] which in cell phone years is like 100. [18:38] yepp, I know [18:40] how many writes can a emmc handle [18:47] I must go, thanks for your help guys [18:47] barry, FYI building with the fix here => https://code.launchpad.net/~mandel/+recipe/ubuntu-download-manager-daily [18:47] barry, will ping you when done [19:15] So i have the Nexus 4 with Ubuntu Touch 13.10 r101 installed and i cannot install apps. I have enabled read/write, updating the phone works, but installing apps doesn't? What can i try to make it work? [19:18] Skari, you would be better off with the stable trusty builds, but I wonder if your problem is you need to enable your U1 account in order to install apps today [19:19] pmcgowan: Can i upgrade it without wiping it? I'd like to keep all my contacts, settings and so on. [19:20] Skari, I believe so, sergiusens? [19:20] Skari, should not wipe unless you ask it to with -b [19:21] ok, thx for the info [19:23] pmcgowan, Skari ubuntu-device-flash with no params will take you to the stable channel without wiping data [19:24] sergiusens, is u-d-f available from the ppa or just trusty [19:25] Alright, awesome. How can i back it up in case it gets messed up during the upgrade? [19:26] pmcgowan, it's in precise, saucy and trusty from the ppa:phablet-team/tools ppa (as is the ubuntu-emulator) [19:27] sergiusens, hmm dont have it on my saucy system, let me check [19:27] oh [19:27] Skari, backup is not a solved thing I guess; I just adb pull /home/phablet [somedir] [19:27] need to install I see [19:27] sergiusens, i made a phablet-tool for backup, but nobody ever reviewed it :P [19:27] sergiusens: ok [19:29] cwayne, your backup solution should push to u1 :-) [19:30] sergiusens, oooh, it should [19:47] thomi, Yup, on my todo list for today. I have a silo request in that I'm going to add it to. [19:48] tedg: sweet, thanks === dandrader is now known as dandrader|afk === dandrader|afk is now known as dandrader [20:32] cwayne: fyi, just uploaded apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu 1.1.5 with a rule for libthai (bug #1278702). this belongs in apparmor, but we can't get that updated right now for other reasons [20:32] bug 1278702 in apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "Gmail webapp fails to load on N10" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1278702 [20:32] cwayne: that doesn't concern you though. you should be unblocked now [20:34] jdstrand, wonderful, thank you [20:35] np [20:38] I'm looking to get an older phone for use as a developer platform, like an S2 maybe. Anyone had any luck putting touch on something older? === dpm-afk is now known as dpm [21:52] robru, heya, did you publish silo 3? [21:55] cwayne, i did, it's in proposed right now. [21:55] cwayne, it's being held there until autopkgtest completes. === jhodapp is now known as jhodapp|afk [22:06] cwayne, those autopkgtests just passed, so you should see that hit the release pocket Real Soon Now [22:06] robru, lovely, thank you :) [22:17] tedg: hey, how do I use upstart-app-launch via ssh? eg: 'ssh -tt username@vm start application APP_ID=foo' doesn't work (start: Unknown job: application) [22:18] tedg: is that where I use --desktop_file_hint? [22:18] jdstrand, Huh, no, I'd expect that'd work. Well, I guess it can't find the session bus. [22:19] yeah, that is what I was thinking [22:19] jdstrand, So you should be able to just source ~/.cache/upstart/dbus-session and get it. [22:19] * tedg hasn't tried [22:20] ah, ok [22:21] mterry, ping [22:21] cwayne, hello! [22:22] mterry, heya, so eventually we do want to have support for multiple real users right? [22:22] cwayne, yes, eventually [22:23] mterry, any idea how we're gonna do that? adduser currently fails cus it can't lock /etc/passwd [22:23] cwayne, nope! Haven't gotten to that point. But I imagine we'd poke a hole for /etc/passwd [22:24] And probably several other directories [22:24] mterry, as in, add it to writable-paths? [22:24] cwayne, right [22:25] hmpf, i'd do an MR for that but there's no way it'd make it in tomorrow... [22:26] it hink that's the one thing standing in my way re: multiple infographics right now [22:27] cwayne, you guys really can't make custom changes like that to the demo device? [22:28] mterry, we *can*, but we've successfully avoided doing that for everything else [22:28] we'd like to be consistent with the real images... [22:49] thomi_, Thinking about this some more, do you just need the environment to set the QT testability flag? [22:50] thomi_, If that's the case, I'd rather provide a function to do that, as I'm not sure if we'll be able to easily set environment variables the same in the systemd world. And I'd rather hedge my bet. :-) [23:28] How are the flo system images coming? [23:35] robru, hiya, so we're waiting on silo 006 for a unity-scope-click fix, was wondering how to go about testing === chriadam|away is now known as chriadam