[00:17] <cmaloney> greg-g: You might get yourt post-rock episode sooner than you think. ;)
[00:21] <greg-g> yay
[00:44] <cmaloney> May be tinged with stoner metal / psychadelic metal
[01:02] <cmaloney> greg-g: Actually I think it's going to be another mix episode
[01:04] <cmaloney> Wait... I think I hit the motherlode. :)
[01:47] <rick_h_> http://vimeo.com/86812942 must resist the urge to buy toy now! That's so cool. No whales around here though. Just blizzards
[01:47] <cmaloney> rick_h_: You got bitten by the RC bug hard didn't you?
[01:48] <rick_h_> cmaloney: I've avoided going nuts so far :)
[01:48] <cmaloney> I'm surprised you haven't gone further, honestly.
[01:48] <cmaloney> There's the convergence between wood-working and plane building that I thought would be your crack
[01:49] <rick_h_> hah
[01:52] <cmaloney> Music is my crack. Just spent way too much money for this episode.
[01:53] <rick_h_> heh, that's ok. Amazon is loving me today as well. Always something
[01:53] <cmaloney> Yeah, that's the other thing.
[01:53] <cmaloney> Had to get a drum for the printer on an emergency-basis.
[01:53] <cmaloney> it's putting lines on the pages.
[01:54] <rick_h_> speaking of amazon. time to go sit down with more books on how not to suck at running a team/project.
[01:54] <rick_h_> ruh roh
[01:54] <rick_h_> well, should be good for a while now
[01:54] <cmaloney> Yeah, it was due anyway
[01:54] <cmaloney> 18% done
[01:54] <cmaloney> 18% left rater
[01:54] <cmaloney> rather
[02:40] <cmaloney> greg-g: I think you're going to like this episode a lot.
[02:40] <cmaloney> it mixes sludge, doom, black metal, and post rock / post metal.
[02:41] <cmaloney> and each song is over 8 minutes long. :)
[02:58] <cmaloney> This episode of Open Metalcast is over 1:30
[03:58] <cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2014/02/17/open-metalcast-episode-90-long-playing-record/ <- greg-g
[04:54] <greg-g> cmaloney: yay
[04:56] <greg-g> cmaloney: oh man, and now I feel special, being named in the post :)
[13:42] <rick_h_> morning
[13:42] <brousch> ug
[13:42] <rick_h_> +1
[13:43] <rick_h_> was up at 5am clearing the the drive for the wife
[13:43] <rick_h_> will need nap time later
[13:43] <brousch> 1 more inch and I'd be stuck in the road
[13:43] <rick_h_> oh yea?
[13:43] <rick_h_> glad you made it
[13:44] <brousch> Main roads are plowed, but side roads are not, so it's slushy snow and plow walls at intersections
[13:44] <rick_h_> yea, that's the fun stuff
[13:44] <rick_h_> main roads were boring
[13:44] <brousch> Had to blast through to get to day care
[13:46] <rick_h_> yea, definitely a good year to drive a big car with big snow tires
[13:47] <brousch> I have new all-season tires. Doing well so far
[13:48] <rick_h_> yea, good year for new tires as well. Would suck with the way it's been so snowy/cold/icy with tires on their last legs
[13:52] <brousch> I was out shoveling last night. Guy across the street and I were laughing as he tried to throw snow over his 9ft tall wall of snow
[13:52] <brousch> Have to scoop, turn your back to the wall, throw it backwards over your head
[13:52] <rick_h_> lol
[13:53] <brousch> He is up hill, so he has a wall taller than my big piles
[13:54] <rick_h_> nice, yea, I love the snow but I'm getting annoyed with having to do planned shoveling passes to try to even out the snow hills
[13:54] <rick_h_> and the mailbox area is full of fail
[13:54] <rick_h_> I'm waiting for them to just stop delivering
[13:55] <brousch> I got a notice last week. Today they will fail because I can only see a fist-sized area of the mailbox
[13:58] <brousch> I need to rake the roof again tonight. That sucks
[14:02] <brousch> My wife wanted to shovel last night. She did about 15ft and quit, saying she felt like she was going to puke
[14:04] <rick_h_> heh, my wife always says she'll help
[14:04] <rick_h_> but it's more of a "I'll shovel some path down the drive" vs really clearing it
[14:05] <brousch> To be fair, she started at the end with huge piles and is 6" shorter than I am
[14:05] <rick_h_> hah
[14:06] <rick_h_> way to setup to get her back inside to prepare your hot tea
[14:14] <brousch> mulled wine
[14:17] <cmaloney> Yeah, we didn't get as much as I thought we might
[14:17] <cmaloney> though I haven't shoveled it yet.
[14:17] <brousch> It's getting deceptive. It didn't looke like much until I went out there
[14:17] <brousch> Size of the snow banks is making things seem smaller
[14:18] <rick_h_> hah, hills among mountains
[14:18] <rick_h_> yea, we got a few good inches, but not the 6+ on the high end
[14:19] <brousch> I shoveled 4" last night and there was another 1" this morning
[14:27] <cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2014/02/17/open-metalcast-episode-90-long-playing-record/
[14:28] <cmaloney> If you like longer songs you're in for a treat. :)
[15:02] <jrwren> shorter is easier to shovel.
[15:02] <jrwren> i'm too tall so the angle of the shovel is not right so I have to bend down which is a back breaker.
[15:02] <brousch> Get a bigger shovel
[15:02] <jrwren> it was a nice workout this morning. If I had to do that every morning, I'd be in good shape.
[15:02] <jrwren> I'd not be able to lift a bigger shovel.
[15:02] <brousch> I have one with a special bent handle
[15:02] <jrwren> maybe a longer handle would help
[15:03] <jrwren> oh so THAT is what the handle bend is for.
[15:03] <rick_h_> no, small. best thing ever http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000A28780/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1
[15:03] <rick_h_> bent handle is fail
[15:03] <rick_h_> did that for 4 years
[15:03] <brousch> I like it better than my old straight handle
[15:03] <rick_h_> get big to push to the edge, then go small to lift over the pile
[15:03] <jrwren> rick_h_: I don't get it. what is special about that one?
[15:04] <rick_h_> jrwren: it's really light and small for getting the pile from the edge up/over the hills
[15:04] <brousch> That one has no edges. flinging over your head backwards will take forever
[15:04] <jrwren> mine is also 22 or 24". 18" is small.
[15:04] <rick_h_> right, to be light
[15:04] <jrwren> got it.
[15:04] <jrwren> I'll keep my back breaker and call it me working out :)
[15:04] <jrwren> I want to stay young
[15:05] <rick_h_> heh
[15:29] <rick_h_> lmorchard: bookie has CORS support :P (just seeing the thread on pinboard about it)
[15:30] <rick_h_> of course trevlar had to ask for it to get it put in
[16:15] <rick_h_> widox: my email says to congrat you on 3yrs at work so I obey :P
[16:16] <widox> rick_h_: hehe - thanks
[16:16] <rick_h_> stupid linkedin emails
[16:17] <widox> they seem to be multiplying, too
[16:17] <cmaloney> I'm glad I deleted my account
[16:17] <widox> jobs, groups to join. blah
[16:17] <cmaloney> widox: You might have missed them in the 10x other emails.
[16:17] <widox> but, but the networking opportunities cmaloney!
[16:17] <rick_h_> heh
[16:17] <cmaloney> widox: as opposed to, oh I dunno, talking to people?
[16:18] <rick_h_> people are over rated, it's connections that count
[16:18] <rick_h_> moar connections!
[16:18] <greg-g> I hit 500+, so any more doesn't help me :(
[16:18] <rick_h_> well greg-g is set for life
[16:19] <cmaloney> greg-g is so connected pretty soon we'll call him Ma Bell.
[16:19] <widox> whew, we are amongst a celeb here. greg-g  ;)
[16:19] <widox> pretty sure I've only got a handful or so
[16:19] <greg-g> I gotta disconnect from some people, clean up this shit (or just leave)
[16:20] <cmaloney> NOOOO!!!
[16:20] <greg-g> I did the conference stuff for a couple years, that gets 'em in
[16:20] <cmaloney> (he's talking about us I'm sure)
[16:20] <greg-g> cmaloney: cull the oldest connections :)
[16:20] <rick_h_> hah, he's got to cut bait from the old MI losers
[16:20] <cmaloney> greg-g: That's adouble-edged sword.
[16:20] <cmaloney> The conference connections
[16:21] <cmaloney> Some really cool people out there.
[16:21] <greg-g> yeah, most of these weren't
[16:21] <cmaloney> but yeah, some times I feel like my socail networking is Katamari Damacy.
[16:21] <rick_h_> I'm kind of strict in my use
[16:21] <greg-g> they were all K-12, state employees who heard me talk sensibly about standards
[16:21] <rick_h_> I have to really know you
[16:21] <cmaloney> Which is why I like Google+
[16:21] <rick_h_> and even if I work with you, I might not add you if I feel I might need to be asking around for a job
[16:21] <cmaloney> I can stay connected with people without actually seeing them speak. :)
[16:21] <rick_h_> e.g. the 'will you keep quiet' factor
[16:22] <cmaloney> rick_h_: yeah, that's tough
[16:22] <rick_h_> and I never connect with a boss, unless he leaves to another company :)
[16:23] <cmaloney> I've broken that rule several times over.
[16:23] <cmaloney> but that's because I work with cool bosses. ;)
[16:23] <cmaloney> *cough*
[16:23] <cmaloney> ;)
[16:24] <rick_h_> hah
[16:26] <greg-g> yeah, I haven't yet used LinkedIn for any job searching at all.
[16:27] <greg-g> I wish I could just export my contacts names/emails from their
[16:28] <gamerchick02> oh linkedin. so many emails. i turned a lot of them off, but i might have to revisit the email settings again.
[16:29] <gamerchick02> and i didn't get internet access at work; i'm at home.
[16:29] <gamerchick02> i hate being sick
[16:29] <gamerchick02> :(
[16:29] <gamerchick02> rebooting for fun and profit, brb
[16:35] <cmaloney> gamerchick02: Hope you feel better.
[16:36] <gamerchick02> me too. i'm not coughing as much as i was yesterday so that's good
[16:36] <gamerchick02> i hate missing work. :(
[16:37] <cmaloney> I can understand that.
[16:40] <gamerchick02> it's better for me to be home though. i got so much sleep last night and this morning
[16:53] <brousch> rick_h_: One more + for Portland https://twitter.com/yourmetjenny/status/435755065882578944/photo/1
[16:55] <cmaloney> brousch: You and your "data"
[16:56] <brousch> rick_h_ has me convinced. Now I have to get my wife off the idea of Hawaii
[16:56] <brousch> George says "absolutely not" to Hawaii because of volcanoes and lava.
[16:58] <gamerchick02> +1 to Portland
[16:58] <gamerchick02> if there were jobs there i'd move in a heartbeat. not sure if there's a lot of demand for mechanical engineers. :-P
[16:59] <gamerchick02> volcanoes and lava happen on the uninhabited islands anyway, brousch
[16:59] <rick_h_> brousch: the good news never ends
[18:26] <mrgoodcat> anybody have any idea how to backlog in irssi without page up/down?
[18:44] <jrwren> like on a mac?
[18:44] <jrwren> fn-up arrow.
[18:44] <jrwren> because that is page up.
[18:45] <jrwren> but page up is standard part of KB, you gotta have it somewehre.
[18:49] <mrgoodcat> on a chromebook
[18:49] <mrgoodcat> i figured out alt+up does page up
[18:50] <mrgoodcat> chc is at bean and leaf correct?
[18:55] <brousch> mmmm, chromebook
[18:56] <mrgoodcat> i love my chromebook
[18:56] <mrgoodcat> runs ubuntu just fine too :)
[18:56] <brousch> What do you have? I picked up a Haswell C720 with 4GB for my son
[18:56] <mrgoodcat> c720p
[18:56] <mrgoodcat> same thing but touch screen
[18:56] <brousch> Ah, is the touch screen useful?
[18:56] <mrgoodcat> i have the 2gb version though
[18:56] <mrgoodcat> the touch screen is usefull in chromeos but not in ubuntu
[18:57] <brousch> I find touch screens much less useful when there's a keyboard between me and the screen
[18:57] <mrgoodcat> its nice scrolling through news feeds and such
[18:57] <mrgoodcat> and pinch to zoom
[18:58] <brousch> I installed Crouton into a 2GB C720, but there was not enough RAM to run minecraft
[18:58] <brousch> I haven't gotten around to putting it on the 4GB
[18:59] <mrgoodcat> really? i use chrubuntu and haven't had problems running anything yet
[19:00] <mrgoodcat> i'll try minecraft and let you know what i find out
[19:00] <mrgoodcat> later tho when i'm not at work :)
[19:01] <brousch> Well crouton runs xubuntu in a chroot, so ChromeOS and Ubuntu are both running
[19:01] <brousch> And you can switch between ChromeOS and Xubuntu on the fly
[19:02] <mrgoodcat> yea thats the way i had it running originally
[19:02] <mrgoodcat> i decided i like true dual boot better
[19:03] <mrgoodcat> i don't like the idea of sharing kernel space since i like to tinker too much in ubuntu
[19:03] <mrgoodcat> wouldn't want to bork my chrome install
[19:03] <brousch> Isn't that impossible? Just reset it to factory
[19:03] <mrgoodcat> also, things like lxc didn't work
[19:03] <mrgoodcat> you can't use some advanced kernel features from inside chroot
[19:05] <mrgoodcat> iirc /dev/shm didn't work properly either
[19:09] <mrgoodcat> i have to go now. nice talking though
[19:21] <mathomastech> I'm getting stuck on a python problem. Perhaps someone can shed some insight. I have a configuration.py file with several global variables. On initial load. all other files that import that configuration file can access the variables with their correct info. However, when on one my methods change the global variable, it only changes for it's own instance. When I pass the focus to another file and it
[19:21] <mathomastech> uses the global variable it still has the original value, not the updated one. How to I update global variables in a configuration file so that other files that use it can always get the latest value?
[19:24] <mathomastech> Specifically, I am updated a global USER variable in a file that handles the login process, and then another file that handles the messages that user sent is doing this ---- info_buffer.insert(info_buffer.get_end_iter(), USER + ": " + chat_input)
[19:25] <mathomastech> So that when it shows up in the chatlog it will have the currently logged in user's name appended to the front of their message.
[19:27] <waf> a link to pastebin is worth a thousand words :)
[19:29] <waf> though my first instinct is that you shouldn't use global variables like that. just pass the value along to the functions that need them
[19:29] <mathomastech> Preparing one now, one sec
[19:29] <mathomastech> http://pastebin.com/aZApfZxy
[19:30] <mathomastech> vim cut off some of the longer lines, but all the important stuff is there
[19:31] <rick_h_> +1 python files are parsed once at load. If they use the value at bootstrap it doesn't mean they'll get it again. This is what a config registry is for
[19:31] <rick_h_> see stuff like pyramid that loads a registry on startup with the dict items and then the code that wants config info requests a registry instance
[19:32] <mathomastech> Ok, so when I "from configuration import *", that file has only the original values, and won't update if things change?
[19:33] <rick_h_> right, you've created new vars in your modules namespace
[19:33] <rick_h_> check out the Mock libary, you have to update things in the namespace where it's imported to mock something out
[19:33] <rick_h_> because of this issue
[19:34] <cmaloney> honestly I'd not use a global configuration variable if I could get away from it
[19:35] <cmaloney> maybe a module / class-level variable.
[19:35] <cmaloney> and pass that around.
[19:35] <cmaloney> Maybe it was one too many thwacks from Mrs. Deryckre's ruler in Pascal class but I try like hell not to have global variables.
[19:37] <mathomastech> A lot of my global variables never do change. Most of it is just initializing the various components of my UI, and then a couple file directory paths. This particular global variable is the only one I have that will change after the initial launch of the application. Ill create class to handle it and reference the class instead of the global variable. Thanks!
[19:39] <cmaloney> np
[19:40] <cmaloney> also: I was never hit with a ruler in Mrs. Deryckre's class
[19:40] <cmaloney> she could do more damage with her focused stare than any wooden or metal object.
[19:42] <jrwren> don't "from module import *" its a python no-no
[19:42] <mathomastech> jrwren: Why's that?
[19:42] <waf> global immutable variables are fine, but as soon you start mutating them major alarm bells should be going off.
[19:43] <jrwren> mathomastech: it just is.
[19:43] <rick_h_> mathomastech: because you've polluted my python namespace without me realizing it
[19:43] <waf> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2386714/why-is-import-bad
[19:43] <rick_h_> mathomastech: I could have imported a variable "TOTAL"
[19:43] <rick_h_> and if I try to use it, things now break
[19:43] <rick_h_> explicit > implicit and this one is a big one
[19:44] <rick_h_> every time I see import * I go fetch my "bad dev" bat
[19:44] <rick_h_> it's a hint you don't know what your code is doing unless you can recite everything in * from memory...6 months from now
[19:52] <rick_h_> hah, I rank #93 of 100 neighbors for effeciency...yay me wasting my electic bill dollars
[19:52] <mathomastech> Perhaps so. But until my UI is finalized, and elements stop getting added/removed and the element names stop changing I think I'll import * so I don't have to refactor things in 3 different places. Its a ton easlier to refactor in just 1 location this early in its development
[19:53] <rick_h_> mathomastech: just understand, it's considered bad practice. Tests should be changing withthose names, linting should be catching and hanging on them, it's a sign that the development is not moving in a good way. Not to sound too negative on it
[19:53] <rick_h_> mathomastech: if I were hiring (and I have been this week) it's an automatic no go
[19:53] <brousch> rick_h_: It's all of your powerful electronics, and the fact that you're home all day
[19:53] <greg-g> pythonistas: what's the difference between pip install --target and --prefix ?
[19:54] <rick_h_> greg-g: --prefix deprecated? I don't see it in my help or in the pip online docs?
[19:55] <greg-g> huh, must be
[19:57] <rick_h_> brousch: yes, it's I'm at home, the mega cold winter, and the space heaters in the garage for the woodshop
[19:58] <rick_h_> nice to get "You suck!" letters from DTE. "Just take my $$ and keep quiet"
[19:58] <waf> mathomastech: if you don't want to use python's built-in configuration stuff, you could also store your config settings in a dictionary called settings, then just `from configuration import settings`
[19:59] <waf> then do something like settings["log_path"] or whatever
[19:59] <brousch> rick_h_: I am always in the 10% of good users
[19:59] <rick_h_> OMG! my home value went up for the first time since we moved in according to the tax assessment annual update
[20:00] <rick_h_> waf: +1
[20:02] <cmaloney> woo woo
[20:04] <gamerchick02> congrats, rick_h_
[20:04] <rick_h_> my plan to have some home equity before I retire is right on track!
[20:04] <rick_h_> :)
[20:05] <gamerchick02> nice
[20:05] <gamerchick02> went out to check the snow situation and there was none on my car.
[20:05] <rick_h_> yea, it's a really nice day out there
[20:05] <gamerchick02> got the mail and it was one of those flyers to get you into the car dealership
[20:06] <rick_h_> grabbed the mail and enjoyed a few minutes of sunlight
[20:06] <gamerchick02> it's beautiful, but i started coughing pretty hardcore when i got the mail
[20:06] <gamerchick02> time fore some medicine! yay! (not)
[20:06] <waf> ah, the good ol' poisionous car dealership flyer prank.
[20:08] <gamerchick02> i take it right to the dumpster and drop it in
[20:08] <gamerchick02> i'm like "seriously?"
[20:08] <mathomastech> waf: I'll look into how the dictionaries work. It might be a good alternative to what I am doing currently
[20:11] <jrwren> rick_h_: buy DTE shares so you are paying yourself?
[20:11] <jrwren> rick_h_: i'm curious what those other 7 neighbors are doing.
[20:12] <waf> mathomastech: it's pretty easy. just `settings = { "key_name": "value", "other_key_name": "other_value" }`
[20:12] <rick_h_> well it hurts that my 4 closest houses are either snowbirds, forclosed, and retired people that are only there every other week
[20:13] <mathomastech> waf: So if I import the settings, and it changes later, wouln't it run into the same issue since other files don't automatically re-import?
[20:17] <waf> well, i'm not trying to solve that. don't use mutable globals
[20:17] <waf> this at least gets rid of the import *, so you're no longer vomiting everything into the namespace.
[20:18] <waf> continuing the metaphor, now we have a nice little contained sack of vomit.
[20:18] <waf> maybe i should rethink this comparison.
[20:18] <rick_h_> yay waf providing a barf bag for us
[20:19] <rick_h_> lol
[20:19] <mathomastech> Ok. I see what your saying. Yea, I probably will refactor that in a bit.
[20:21] <jrwren> if it is just settings, then there is really no excuse.
[20:21] <waf> except the excuse to being new-ish to a language, which is a valid excuse.
[20:21] <jrwren> if it is really that painful, maybe they shouldn't be separate modules?
[20:22] <jrwren> oh, new-ish? I've been newish for 2-18yrs.
[20:22] <jrwren> then again, python was VERY different in 1996
[20:22] <cmaloney> I hated Python 1.5.2
[20:22] <rick_h_> there are oldish folks that still do that import * stuff.
[20:22] <jrwren> about the only thing that was the same was whitespace and def.
[20:23] <jrwren> cmaloney: i hated 1.4, 1.5 and 1.6 and the breaking changes between each of 'em
[20:23] <cmaloney> jrwren: yep
[20:23] <rick_h_> nothing to need to excuse, just good to know why it's frowned upon by most
[20:23] <jrwren> cmaloney: those breaking changes are why I quit python and learned perl :)
[20:23] <rick_h_> django used to be bad about that, never knew where some stuff was coming from
[20:23] <cmaloney> The only from blah impport * that I did recently was for a file with a bunch of exceptions in there.
[20:24] <cmaloney> I really need to go back and codify them.
[20:24] <cmaloney> jrwren: Good ol' Perl.