[00:02] <diddledan> I wonder how ksplice (oracle) differentiate between a desktop install of ubuntu vs a server install?
[00:02] <diddledan> (desktop gets freebies, whereas server doesn't)
[00:06] <shauno> I didn't think either got anything anymore?
[00:08] <diddledan> apparently ubuntu desktop gets freebies, and legacy account holders get ubuntu-server updates as part of their plan
[00:08] <diddledan> new account holders are limited to oracle linux
[00:09] <diddledan> looks like they also have a "30 day trial" for RHEL
[00:10] <diddledan> oracle customers need to get access via "ULN"?
[00:10] <diddledan> aah, unbreakable linux network
[00:11] <diddledan> as if they have a network of people involved
[00:14] <maps|wrk> hey
[00:16] <diddledan> allo maps|wrk
[00:17] <maps|wrk> whats everyone upto?
[00:19] <maps|wrk> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2561995/When-Jane-56-met-Michael-28-holiday-The-Gambia-thought-true-love-But-happened-left-sister-fearing-life.html
[00:19] <maps|wrk> how on earth do people fall for that
[00:19] <maps|wrk> d'uh
[00:27] <diddledan> dang
[00:36] <maps|wrk> odd eh
[00:39] <diddledan> lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA56LgpFbSw
[00:39] <diddledan> honda advert for dogs
[00:47] <maps|wrk> lol
[01:27] <maps|wrk> anyone watched babylon?
[01:41] <diddledan> I don't think I know of it
[01:42] <diddledan> channel 4?
[01:42] <diddledan> looks interesting
[01:43] <diddledan> rgh @ 4od adverts
[01:44] <maps|wrk> ya chan4 4od
[01:44] <maps|wrk> haha yea irritating eh
[01:44] <maps|wrk> irritating that there seems to be ads on ALMOST everytihng on youtube too these days eh
[01:50] <diddledan> lol - the police come off really well in the first few minutes.. or not
[01:51] <maps|wrk> haha you gonna watch it all? let me know if its worth watching ..will watch it when im home if it is:)
[03:06] <diddledan> that was actually pretty good
[03:06] <diddledan> somewhat of an experimental directing style.. shaky camera syndrome
[04:45] <mapps> hey
[04:45] <mapps> diddledan,  wortgh watching then?
[06:04] <diddledan> mapps: yeah, it seems to be the start of what could be a good series
[06:04] <diddledan> I wonder if they got any money from TED for including a TED Talk-esque bit
[06:11] <mapps> cool willl check it out the ads made me wonder about it
[06:11] <mapps> said from creators of pep show and danny boylwe
[06:11] <mapps> *boyle
[06:13] <diddledan> at the least watch the first episode as I have and then decide whether to watch the rest when they're aired - I think I shall be watching the rest
[06:13]  * diddledan sky+'s it
[06:14] <mapps> ya will do
[06:14] <mapps> was just watching the following else id have watched it now:)
[06:14] <diddledan> heh
[06:21] <mapps> not working early i guess?:)
[06:31] <jussi> hrm, where is MooDoo today? :(
[07:45] <MartijnVdS> \o
[07:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning
[07:47] <diddledan> allo
[07:50] <awilkins> GAH, I can't find my lanyard
[07:50] <awilkins> Which has my RSA token on it
[07:50] <awilkins> Anyone have the magic hack for RSA?
[07:51] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[07:55] <diplo> Morning all
[07:57] <brobostigon> morning diplo
[08:25] <knightwise> morning everyone
[08:26] <brobostigon> morning knightwise
[09:01] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:03] <popey> YO!
[09:12] <bigcalm> Yos
[09:12] <bigcalm> They go up and down
[09:13] <popey> exciting day
[09:13] <bigcalm> Oh, what happens?
[09:15] <diddledan> there's some sort of thing happening at 16:30?
[09:15] <bigcalm> diddledan: there will be 1.5 hours left to the day at that point
[09:17] <knightwise> i love using ssh on my phone.
[09:17] <diddledan> hmm, can't find the email now
[09:19] <diddledan> popey: tell me I'm not going mad
[09:20] <popey> yes
[09:20] <diddledan> I can't find the email but I'm sure something was happening today
[09:20] <popey> squee
[09:22] <bigcalm> I'm guessing something phone related?
[09:23] <diddledan> I think I recall something about MWC (mobile world congress?)
[09:23] <diddledan> I've got a feeling the NSA have excised all reference from my gmail however
[09:23] <bigcalm> Oh, of course MWC
[09:24] <diddledan> the only reference in my gmail to mwc and ubuntu or canonical is from january
[09:24] <diddledan> suggesting dates of 24-27
[09:26] <diddledan> I swear I saw an email yesterday
[09:33] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tug o' War Day! :-D
[09:44] <hoover> hey folks
[09:49] <dwatkins> ahoy
[09:52] <shauno> ahoj dwatkins
[09:55] <popey> pip pip
[10:03] <dwatkins> tally ho
[10:04] <MartijnVdS> howdy!
[10:16] <jussi> strange. youtube works in chrome, but not in chromium...
[10:21] <dwatkins> what flash version does Chromium have, and is PPAPI and NPAPI enabled, jussi?
[10:21] <jussi> dwatkins: I have actually no idea how to check those things ?
[10:21] <dwatkins> chrome://plugins
[10:22] <dwatkins> ctrl+F, type "flash"
[10:22] <jussi> Adobe Flash Player - Version: 11.2 r202
[10:22] <jussi> Shockwave Flash 11.2 r202
[10:22] <jussi> Name:	Shockwave Flash
[10:22] <jussi> what are these PPAPI and NPAPI ?
[10:23] <dwatkins> There are two instances of Flash in Chrome, one using the old API, the other using a new one, afaik. In some cases, you might disable one or the other for compatability reasons.
[10:23] <dwatkins> https://code.google.com/p/ppapi/ has more info
[10:24] <jussi> ok. how do I check they are enabled ?
[10:25] <dwatkins> there should be a link to disable each just under the "type" line in the chrome://plugins page
[10:26] <jussi> hehe, details wasnt expanded, thought this was a bit abre
[10:26] <jussi> bare
[10:26] <jussi> but seems everything is enabled :/
[10:28] <dwatkins> what are the symptoms?
[10:28] <dwatkins> (and do you have flash block enabled, I assume not...)
[10:38] <jussi> dwatkins: many many youtube videos look like this: http://i.imgur.com/iATtNHS.png
[10:38] <jussi> If I copy tyhe url and open in chrome, it works
[10:40] <dwatkins> curioser and curioser, perhaps the developer panel will show you more info
[10:40] <dwatkins> also, check if you have HTML5 enabled at https://www.youtube.com/html5
[10:42] <jussi> default player is currently used
[10:43] <jussi> meh, Ill switch to html5 and see if that helps
[10:58] <dwatkins> that video plays for me as HTML5 in Chromium
[11:13] <jussi> now a couple of months old, but heck, this sounds pretty bad! http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/nov/13/wikileaks-trans-pacific-partnership-chapter-secret
[11:18] <dwatkins> nothing about the great pacific garbage island, then
[11:58] <foobarry> best practice for server room temperature?
[11:59] <shauno> varies wildly
[12:01] <foobarry> what do ppl in here do?
[12:02] <shauno> trying to keep the datacenter goosebump-chilly is old-school but cost ineffective.  'hot aisle containment' is a nice theory but fussy in practice.  a newer trend is letting stuff run at 40-50C to save on cooling costs.  google appear to be fond of that one
[12:02] <foobarry> 40-50, you sure?
[12:03] <foobarry> you mean internal temps
[12:03] <foobarry> nor air temp
[12:03] <shauno> I literally mean running the datacenter so hot that it's inhumane to have staff in there for more than 10-15 minutes at a time
[12:04] <foobarry> got a link for that?
[12:04] <foobarry> i thouht they ran it between 18-27 degrees
[12:04] <shauno> https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2012/03/23/too-hot-for-humans-but-google-servers-keep-humming/
[12:04] <foobarry> servers tend to buckle and solder melts at 40-50
[12:05] <shauno> http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/podcast/As-data-center-cooling-costs-rise-hot-is-the-new-cool-Podcast-QA
[12:05] <foobarry> . ?We?ve had very few excursion hours, and they don?t last long, so we let the site run right through them. We ask our employees to go in and do office work. It?s too warm for people, but the machines do just fine.?
[12:05] <foobarry> typically they run cooler most of year though
[12:06] <shauno> right.  they're running more and more datacenters on free air.  so summer can suck
[12:06] <diplo> foobarry: Use to run mine at about 22-23 degrees room temp
[12:07] <diplo> I have no really servers any more at new company so don't have that issue, but this was for 60+ servers + 10kva ups etc
[12:07] <shauno> we do hot-aisle-containment, but we also sell it, so I think we have to
[12:08] <shauno> it's great in theory but you have to be incredibly strict about blanking panels, else you get open loops where the front can suck air straight from the back and ruin the gig
[12:08] <diplo> I wanted to implement that shauno, they wouldn't spend any more money :/
[12:09] <bubu> hey guys - how can I peg a package version installed on ubuntu so I can run an apt get upgrade and that particular package will be held back?
[12:09] <shauno> it'll also make you hate cisco with a passion, because they cool left-to-right instead of front-to-back
[12:09] <diddledan> bubu: the process is called apt pinning
[12:10] <diddledan> bubu: that's as much as I can tell you about it because I don't know how it works
[12:10] <bubu> diddledan: looking now, thanks
[12:10] <bubu> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PinningHowto
[12:10] <diddledan> bingo
[12:57] <foobarry> every news story now: "this annoyed som etwitter users who took to the social network site to complain"
[12:58] <awilkins> "Then, some guys complained about the constant complaining on Twitter. 'Twitter used to be just people posting links to cat pictures. Now we want them back!'"
[12:58] <jussi> foobarry: "news".... pffft. I havent seen real news from a UK paper for a long time (excluding maybe some peices from the guardian)
[12:58] <awilkins> Did you see the pictures of the UK being washed into the sea?
[12:59] <awilkins> https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/436076552611061760/photo/1
[12:59] <xnox> eh.... run out of coffee drinking instant one =((((
[12:59] <awilkins> ew
[13:00] <foobarry> the rain is rather unusual..not had so much for 250+ years
[13:00] <foobarry> something to do with gay marriage allegedly
[13:01] <awilkins> Hmmph, don't talk to me about marriage
[13:01] <awilkins> Lady I was going to date at the weekend won't date me... because my ex-wife isn't dead.
[13:01] <foobarry> :-|
[13:01] <awilkins> I politely explained to her that I'm not quite ready to kill for a date. Yet.
[13:01] <foobarry> thought you said "is dead"
[13:02] <xnox> awilkins: stage a date at a funeral =) that would be so much fun!
[13:02] <awilkins> Ah, no, if she was dead it would have been OK.
[13:02] <xnox> (it doesn't have to be ex-wife's funeral...)
[13:02] <foobarry> didn't want to date a divorcee?
[13:02] <shauno> awilkins: that's a bit misleading.  it usually looks like that
[13:02] <awilkins> Belongs to some sect that believes marriage is for life even if you're divorced
[13:02] <xnox> yes a widow is fine... wtf?!
[13:03] <shauno> eg, april 2002, http://eoimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/ve//3065/UK.A2002096.1110.1km.jpg
[13:03]  * bigcalm is happy to be husband number two
[13:03] <foobarry> awilkins: most people who people that usually say it depends if the divorce happened due to adultery
[13:03] <popey> oooh, sunlight!
[13:03] <shauno> there's a reason most of lincolnshire is pretty much "meh" on anglosaxon maps.  they didn't even consider it territory.  we do have some naturally silty rivers
[13:04] <bigcalm> shauno: that looks like a minecraft map
[13:05] <awilkins> foobarry, She didn't ask about that (just for the channel log - no adultery)
[13:06] <awilkins> I think I may have subsequently burned the already fallen bridge by expressing the opinion that religious moral positions are basically pick-n-mix from a book so tangled, self-contradictory, and selectively edited that you can probably justify almost anything.
[13:07] <awilkins> ie - If I literally believed things in Deuteronomy I would have justification for killing my daughter, etc
[13:08] <bigcalm> You learn something new every day - middle clicking on a window's title bar sends that window to the bottom of the stack
[13:08] <awilkins> Oh, I do that by accident all the time
[13:08] <awilkins> Middle clicking tabs to close them in Chromium mostly
[13:08] <MartijnVdS> middle-clicking links to open them in new tabs :)
[13:11] <awilkins> Surprised that my super-duper gamey mouse has a leaf switch for middleclick actually
[13:12] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: gamey mouse? As in "caught in the woods"?
[13:13] <awilkins> One of these fellows : http://www.corsair.com/en/gaming-peripherals/gaming-mice/vengeance-m65-fps-laser-gaming-mouse-green-military-green.html
[13:13] <popey> not just green
[13:13] <popey> but green, millitary green
[13:14] <awilkins> It's a really nice mouse.. and I like the colour.
[13:14] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: that looks uncomfortable, with the corners and everything
[13:14] <awilkins> It's really comfy, but I suspect it's no good for a southpaw
[13:14] <popey> i used to really like my thinkpad mouse with the blue wheel that wasn't a wheel
[13:14] <popey> which lit up
[13:15] <MartijnVdS> popey: how does that work? a wheel that's not a wheel?
[13:15] <awilkins> Was it a touchpad?
[13:15] <popey> more like a joystick
[13:15] <awilkins> Or another optical sensor?
[13:15] <awilkins> Was it a strain-gauge pointer like the thinkpad touchpoint thing
[13:15] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: I have a serial 3-button ball mouse at home :)
[13:15] <awilkins> I got shot of all my ballmice years ago
[13:16] <popey> cant find a pic of one now
[13:16] <popey> yes awilkins
[13:16] <awilkins> I think I found one the other day and had a nostalgic minute or two scraping mousegunk off the rollers
[13:16] <popey> mmmmm gunk
[13:17] <dwatkins> awilkins: your mouse looks similar to the RAT 7 gaming mouse from cyborggaming.
[13:17] <awilkins> popey, That's kinda "Yo dawg, I heard you like pointing devices so I put a pointing device on your pointing device..."
[13:17] <popey> well indeed
[13:17] <bigcalm> I've gone back to using a ball mouse. But only because it's a trackball
[13:17] <bigcalm> Ball gunk is a pain once more
[13:17] <dwatkins> I used a trackball for a few weeks, but I prefer trackpads.
[13:17] <popey> now i wonder if it wasnt lenovo
[13:17] <awilkins> dwatkins, The RAT 7 just struck me as really uncomfy looking,,,
[13:18] <popey> bah
[13:18] <dwatkins> awilkins: apparently it's great once you've adjusted it etc.
[13:19] <dwatkins> rated for 20 million clicks sounds to me like a mouse which would last 4 years
[13:19] <dwatkins> (assuming one click per second, 8 hours a day, 180 days a year)
[13:19] <awilkins> dwatkins, I have a very old MS optical one that still works fine
[13:20] <awilkins> I definitely don't click once per second
[13:20] <dwatkins> as do I, awilkins - one of the ones which used to be shiny white and is now shiny beige
[13:20] <awilkins> I type mostly
[13:20] <dwatkins> I'm thinking of FPS games, although my estimates were for working hours
[13:20] <dwatkins> likewise, and I use a lot of keyboard shortcuts
[13:20] <popey> found it!
[13:21] <popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/ctg/Lenovo-31P7405-Optical-Mouse-/96854594
[13:22] <shauno> one click a second?!
[13:23] <dwatkins> popey: wow, those are the ones we get by default with our Thinkpads, they tend to get thrown out fairly quickly
[13:23] <dwatkins> I think I have a couple in my desk drawer
[13:23] <shauno> is that blue job a nipple?
[13:23] <popey> !
[13:23] <popey> kinda
[13:23] <dwatkins> does it scroll sideways?
[13:24] <popey> cant remember
[13:24] <popey> i love them
[13:24] <dwatkins> fair enough, each to their own :)
[13:24] <popey> but i like touchpoints too
[13:24] <dwatkins> I have an Apple Magic Mouse, it's ace as it has a trackpad on top
[13:24] <popey> disable my touchpad, people who use my laptop can't scroll
[13:24] <dwatkins> my laptop mostly gathers dust during the week whilst I use an external keyboard and mouse
[13:25] <awilkins> Yeah
[13:25] <dwatkins> hot dust
[13:25] <awilkins> '96 vintage Model M at home
[13:25] <awilkins> Cherry G80-3000 with clickity switches at work
[13:25] <popey> mine gets yanked out of the dock repeatedly during the day
[13:25]  * awilkins loves his Model M
[13:25] <dwatkins> awilkins: I have one too - made it reminiscent of an Acorn Archimedes: http://i.imgur.com/u2RqAAe.jpg
[13:26] <awilkins> Love it that when you strike the enter key when you're peed off it SOUNDS LIKE YOU MEAN IT
[13:26] <popey> heh
[13:26] <dwatkins> I used to work with someone who typed like that, you could tell their mood quite easily just by listening to the typing
[13:26] <hamitron> and now keyboards just break ;)
[13:26] <MartijnVdS> keyboards break?!
[13:27] <MartijnVdS> I go through a mouse a year, but I never have to change my keyboard.
[13:27] <awilkins> I swear, all the people with RSI who have ergo keyboards should just get a Model M or something else with decent keyswitches
[13:27] <dwatkins> my Model M is like a tank - I think I've put it in the bath at least twice, too
[13:27] <dwatkins> I thought it was mostly mice that caused RSI, no idea though.
[13:27] <popey> bryce?
[13:27] <awilkins> I bought Mum a Cherry when her arthritic fingers started playing up (she was a legal secretary, typing all day) and it cleared up in 2 weeks
[13:27] <hamitron> I find the left shift key and space bars break :/
[13:28] <dwatkins> hamitron: do you play Kerbal Space Program too forcibly? ;)
[13:28] <awilkins> It's the clicky feedback that lets you know when to stop pushing
[13:28] <hamitron> but I am generally in a bad mood when writing a report, and the space bar "gets it"
[13:28] <awilkins> As opposed to the smushy "TV Remote" feel you get from standard keyboards
[13:28] <dwatkins> ZX Spectrum...
[13:28] <awilkins> Fun fact - they ARE essentially a TV remote, but with hard keycaps on top
[13:28] <dwatkins> makes sense
[13:29] <dwatkins> according to Tim Berners Lee, we're all either developers or consumers
[13:29] <dwatkins> (of media)
[13:29] <awilkins> What about those of us who do both?
[13:32] <dwatkins> well quite
[13:33] <dwatkins> I was reading up about HTML5 and DRM, which I really shouldn't do unless I want to get annoyed.
[15:53] <diddledan> enabling drm as a supported media in html doesn't improve matters from npapi+activex. at all. we still end up with the requirement to install numerous third-party plugins to support the drm as we used to require to support video
[15:54] <TwistedLucidity> And what problem does the Digital Repression Mechanism actually solve?
[15:54] <diddledan> TwistedLucidity: imposing restrictions on legitimate uses
[15:54] <TwistedLucidity> diddledan: That's the problem it creates, not solves. :-(
[15:54] <diddledan> from an end-user perspective it solves nothing. from a studio perspective it solves everything
[15:55] <TwistedLucidity> Yeah, that's why there's no copyright infringement of DRM media.....wait a minute.....!
[15:56] <diddledan> there's more copyright infringement per capita on DRMed media than there is on open media
[15:56] <diddledan> QED
[15:57] <diddledan> so the answer is obviously to make the DRM harder to crack
[15:59] <shauno> I really wish geolocking would die as a business model.  it'd make a whole lot of DRM simply irrelevant
[16:00] <diddledan> yeah, I hate when even the trailers are geolocked
[16:00] <TwistedLucidity> I think one company had the correct response - HBO. "Oh look, 'Game of thrones' is the most infringed program. Let's try and remove the incentive to infringe." And they start releasing the box sets quickly and for a fair price. Nice.
[16:01] <shauno> what if we could just subscribe to HBO?
[16:01] <TwistedLucidity> There's a film called "Knights of Badassdom" I'd like to watch, funny silliness. Available for digital download from Amazon, Google Play etc. Can I download it? No. Geo-locked. Morons!
[16:02] <shauno> I had a chuckle recently; an irish film that's available to stream on netflix-us, but not netflix-ie
[16:02] <TwistedLucidity> shauno: The great debate there is being able to do a la carte. If I could just get one or two channels, that'd do me.
[16:02] <diddledan> hulu really needs to be available in the uk, too
[16:03] <dwatkins> there are situations in which DRM makes at least some sense, such as companies making training material available to other companies who pay for it
[16:03] <dwatkins> I'm not aware of another way for them to protect this kind of content
[16:04] <diddledan> dwatkins: change it from a product (training materials) to a service (training seminas)
[16:04] <diddledan> seminar*
[16:05] <dwatkins> diddledan: seminars have restricted entry, you need a ticket
[16:06] <shauno> they're also useless
[16:06] <shauno> we don't have every staff member on every day; we can rarely have them all free at the same time.  and they won't pause while I go refuel
[16:06] <shauno> so you end up paying for the same thing 3 times trying to rotate everyone through
[16:07] <diddledan> shauno: good business if you can convince someone to do that
[16:07] <shauno> (per site ..)
[16:07] <diddledan> 3 times the income
[16:07] <dwatkins> fair enough, there can be problems, but for a lecture you're attending which is chargeable, you'd need to buy a ticket somehow
[16:08] <TwistedLucidity> Is infringement of such training material an actual problem?
[16:09] <dwatkins> no, I'm trying to understand whether there's an analogue for DRM in such a situation
[16:09] <dwatkins> people might sneak in, for example
[16:10] <dwatkins> someone might record the session from Google Glass or a hand held camera secretly
[16:10] <shauno> it doesn't need to be covert.  if you're at our site, you're on cctv in common areas
[16:10] <diddledan> I want some googley glass
[16:11] <awilkins> I found myself wanting it after the cheap chinese plastic windscreen mount for my Nexus 4 broke
[16:12] <dwatkins> for some companies, this is their bread and butter, and they are required by their customers to keep such material secret (trade secrets, etc.)
[16:12] <shauno> I really wish it wasn't google :/
[16:12] <diddledan> apparently it's illegal to drive with googley glass installed
[16:12] <TwistedLucidity> I want some anti-googley glass.
[16:12] <dwatkins> I thought the court case decided it was ok to drive with Glass on
[16:12] <diddledan> in the uk at least
[16:12] <dwatkins> oh, different case, perhaps
[16:13] <shauno> it's such a double-edge.  on one hand, they've got the drive, the ability and the funding to do neat things.  on the other hand, they're google.
[16:13] <dogmatic69> I am running a command (http://bin.cakephp.org/view/138753539) and it outputs to a file AND shows warnings on screen, is there a way I can disable the warnings or redirect them to /dev/null ?
[16:13] <dwatkins> a HUD in my car would be useful
[16:13] <Laney> SOREEN
[16:13] <diddledan> shauno: what's wrong with a corporate entity knowing when I last washed my private parts?
[16:13] <Laney> YOU BEAUTY
[16:13] <dwatkins> dogmatic69: command 2>1 >/dev/null
[16:14] <dogmatic69> dwatkins:  and that wont affect the file output?
[16:14] <dogmatic69> also where about in the command would I put that?
[16:14] <diddledan> shauno: and having video footage of the act
[16:14] <dogmatic69> its a bit of a crazy command
[16:14] <dwatkins> hmm, might need to use tee and pipe it
[16:15] <Laney> 2>/dev/null
[16:15] <dogmatic69> never heard of that
[16:15] <diddledan> dogmatic69: ini_set('display_errors', 'false');
[16:15] <dogmatic69> diddledan:  its a command running on jenkins
[16:15] <shauno> you can do 2>onefile 1>anotherfile
[16:16] <dogmatic69> shauno:  and "command > file" is the same as "command 1> file"?
[16:16] <diddledan> oic, it's not php despite being posted on a php framework site :-/
[16:16] <diddledan> :-p
[16:16] <shauno> so all your command is belong to us 2>/dev/null 1>youroutput
[16:16] <diddledan> I like 2>&1
[16:17] <dogmatic69> shauno:  thanks, will try that
[16:17] <dogmatic69> diddledan:  that will put the warnings in the other file?
[16:17] <shauno> dogmatic69: yeah, >out is 1>out.  1 is stdout, 2 is stderr
[16:17] <diddledan> just because it looks funky
[16:17] <diddledan> 2>&1 puts all stderr output onto the stdout pipe
[16:19] <diddledan> so what's sloccount do?
[16:19] <dogmatic69> diddledan:  counts lines of code
[16:19] <diddledan> like wc -l?
[16:19] <dogmatic69> a bit more smart
[16:20] <dogmatic69> it is language aware and can check comments vs actual code, generated code etc.
[16:20] <shauno> diddledan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_lines_of_code   has a pretty decent description of the problem
[16:20] <dogmatic69> c, c++, php etc. not sure what all it does
[16:21] <shauno> short version, foo(i) { do(i); }   could be 1 line as I've written it, 4 lines if indented one way, 3 lines if indented another ... 'sloc' is meant to normalize it so you've got something that's useful as a metric
[16:22] <dogmatic69> s/useful/normalized
[16:22] <shauno> (I put the first brace under the 'foo' in such an example; does that mean I'm more productive than people who put it on the end of the function line?  wc -l thinks so!)
[16:23] <awilkins> Normalized is useful. Because it's comparable.
[16:23] <dogmatic69> ye
[16:23] <awilkins> Although I'm quite guilty of just doing find -name *.java | xargs cat | wc -l somtimes
[16:23] <diddledan> random: I put braces on the same line as the definition
[16:23] <diddledan> for (foo) {
[16:23] <dogmatic69> diddledan:  the correct way ;)
[16:24] <awilkins> This is of course the right way to do it
[16:24] <diddledan> function bar(wibble) {
[16:24] <shauno> I prefer to have them aligned with the closing brace :)
[16:24] <dogmatic69> ew
[16:24] <awilkins> EXTRA LINE
[16:24] <awilkins> Feels like a tooth dangling on a string of gum
[16:24] <diddledan> I have two problems with that. 1) extra line, 2) the definition isn't part of the code block
[16:24] <shauno> that's why you just use sloccount instead of reading my spacey mess
[16:25] <diddledan> shauno: I bet you like python, too
[16:25] <awilkins> I like Python
[16:25] <shauno> it also folds very tidily in editors that do folding
[16:25] <shauno> I hate python almost as much as it hates me
[16:25] <awilkins> I actually quite like it's "indenting is a block" thing
[16:25] <diddledan> I find that counter intuitive
[16:25] <awilkins> But not so fond of the PEP that states that four-spaces is the default Python indent
[16:26] <diddledan> I'm all for properly formatting code, but enforcing it by breaking when you don't seems wrong to me
[16:26] <awilkins> diddledan, If you think that blocks should be indented properly for readability, it's not such a stretch to welcome your language making that compulsory
[16:26] <shauno> I would like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony; http://www.pythonb.org
[16:27] <awilkins> I mean, this is a horrible thing in Java
[16:27] <awilkins> if (test)
[16:27] <awilkins>     doStuff();
[16:27] <awilkins>     doMoreStuff();
[16:27] <diddledan> yes I agree that is semantically wrong
[16:28] <diddledan> ok, maybe I could be convinced
[16:28] <awilkins> So you 'd probably argue that braceless blocks in Java are evil
[16:28] <awilkins> Which is my opinion
[16:28] <jpds> awilkins: I quite like four spaces.
[16:28] <awilkins> jpds, Afraid I'm a tabs man
[16:28] <shauno> I still get a knot in my stomach when js decides the terminating; is overrated
[16:28] <awilkins> jpds, tabs for indents, spaces for aligns
[16:29] <diddledan> ok, let me put the cat among the pigeons now. tcl, discuss
[16:29] <awilkins> jpds, Accomodates both the wingnuts who like their editor to define indent width and the wingnuts who like everything to align (mid-line alignment is also evil though)
[16:29] <shauno> OT: I love when american shows subtitle the brit
[16:30] <shauno> (or british shows subtitle the geordie)
[16:30] <diddledan> wyaye
[16:31] <diddledan> that's the extent of my knowledge of northern behaviour
[16:31] <diddledan> scurge of civilisation as we know it
[16:31]  * awilkins is close to the Pie Event Horizon
[16:32] <shauno> that's scourge.  silly uneducated southerners.
[16:34] <diplo> shauno: I always append ; on js even though you don't have to
[16:34] <diplo> Feel better :)
[16:34] <shauno> I have to.  it's always the first thing I check when something doesn't work.  and when I 'write' js, there's always something broke
[16:35] <diplo> hah same here, I normally pass js stuff to a colleague has he gets it correct first time everytime, I don't!
[16:36] <diddledan> nodejs is fun
[16:38] <diddledan> I like how nodejs has an ecosystem of reusable modules available from npm
[16:39] <diddledan> all you need to do is npm install a new module and it's ready to go
[16:39] <diddledan> you can script a deployment as well that way with a package.json file which details all the dependencies which then get omitted from the scm
[16:42] <diplo> I've never looked at node at all
[16:43] <shauno> I've never felt the need to; I've been quite comfortable that one will blow over soon enough
[16:45] <diddledan> one?
[16:46] <shauno> nodejs
[16:46] <shauno> it's just waiting until we're done burying RoR, then its next :)
[16:49] <dwatkins> if in doubt, delete all the preferences
[16:49]  * dwatkins goes home 
[16:52] <mapps> good evening
[16:52] <mapps> :D
[17:02] <MooDoo> afternoon all
[17:02] <mapps> ey
[17:02] <neuro> blarp
[17:02] <mapps> that was rubbish same judge judy ep as yesterday
[17:02] <popey> rsalveti: /95
[17:02] <popey> oops
[17:03] <neuro> why why why are you watching judge judy?
[17:03] <neuro> popey: yee hee
[17:03] <mapps> i like it!
[17:03] <mapps> :)
[17:03] <neuro> yee? tee!
[17:03]  * neuro larts keyboard
[17:03] <popey> yo
[17:03] <neuro> yo yo
[17:03] <neuro> hey you pinged me on xbl the other night
[17:03] <MooDoo> anyone having issues with chrome browser on Trusty?  not loading etc?
[17:04] <popey> i did?
[17:04] <popey> probably my kids
[17:04] <neuro> lol
[17:04] <diddledan> popey: what's happening now abouts ish?
[17:04] <popey> they use xbox
[17:04] <neuro> 17:17 17/02/2014 "hay"
[17:04] <popey> hah
[17:04] <popey> yeah, my kids
[17:04] <diddledan> some kind of canonical/ubuntu announcement somewhere I believe?
[17:05] <neuro> you should give them their own account
[17:05] <diddledan> aah there's a link on the homepage now
[17:05] <diddledan> popey: you can ignore me
[17:05] <popey> I CAN!?
[17:06] <popey> yeah, apparenly we're going to partner with companies to make phones
[17:06] <popey> who knew?
[17:06] <neuro> zomg
[17:06] <neuro> no wai
[17:06] <diddledan> having a series of mainstream devices will seriously improve public recognition of "ubuntu" as a brand
[17:07] <neuro> popey: i was actually going to suggest getting the xbox live gold family pack, but seems they discontinued that back in august
[17:09] <MooDoo> yay another lock up :S
[17:09] <diddledan> MooDoo: YIPPEE
[17:09] <neuro> you've bought another garage to keep stuff in?
[17:09] <neuro> are you a market trader?
[17:10] <MooDoo> diddledan: serve me right for installing pre alpha lol
[17:10] <neuro> are you dahn saaff?
[17:10] <diddledan> lol
[17:10] <diddledan> mark's got an awesome beard!
[17:11] <Laney> hahaha
[17:11] <MooDoo> diddledan: chrome doesn't load :S grrrr lol
[17:12] <neuro> maybe he's finally going to walk the path of the bat
[17:12] <neuro> head off to the mountains to find the blue flower
[17:13] <MooDoo> yay libudev error...
[17:14] <neuro> hope you're stacking all this up for a bug report ;)
[17:14] <neuro> sounds like it will be a good 'un
[17:15] <MooDoo> there is a temp fix of linking libudev.so.1 to libudev.so.0
[17:16] <neuro> ouch
[17:16] <jussi> If anyone here is interested in kubuntu... we just made polo shirts available again (in limited quantaties)
[17:16] <MooDoo> just having a look on lauchpad now
[17:16] <neuro> ooh, i could buy one to clean the bathroom with
[17:16] <jussi> Including a few womens sizes :=)
[17:16] <neuro> KIDDING
[17:17] <jussi> neuro: I dont care what you do with it if you pay the money :D
[17:17] <neuro> haha
[17:17] <neuro> i like your style, sir
[17:17] <jussi> https://holvi.com/shop/Kubuntu/
[17:17] <neuro> limited run?
[17:18] <mapps> irritating my connection sometimes dies on my machine
[17:18] <mapps> and requires  arestart;/
[17:18] <neuro> wifi?
[17:18] <mapps> ya
[17:18] <neuro> urgh
[17:18] <neuro> drivers maybe?
[17:18] <jussi> neuro: yeah, I have a contact who can do such things. 25 shirts only
[17:18] <mapps> i was going to leave my machine on so i could VPN in when i go abroad
[17:18] <neuro> jussi: shame you don't do sysadmin size
[17:18] <mapps> as when i was in Majorca..couldn't access betfair because i was in spain
[17:19] <mapps> even though my accounts a uk account;/
[17:19] <jussi> neuro: XXXXXXXXXXL ? :D
[17:19] <neuro> does such a thing exist?!
[17:19] <mapps> lol jussi
[17:19] <mapps> in america probably
[17:19] <neuro> jinx, i was about to say the same thing ;)
[17:19] <mapps> :D
[17:19] <mapps> ugh got work in a bit
[17:20] <neuro> i suspect if you want to leave a machine on 24/7, best way is hardwired
[17:20] <mapps> yea
[17:20] <mapps> i agree but dont have the house cabled up..would like to in the gfutute but obviously properly not wires running down the stairs etc
[17:20] <neuro> tho in saying that i leave my dell vostro on all the time on wifi and it's fine
[17:20] <neuro> handy to RDP into to save me firing up a windows 7 vm when i need to engage the beast
[17:20] <mapps> i had a vostro before..got the dell mini 12 or 11 whatever it is atm
[17:21] <neuro> i do like the vostros
[17:21] <jussi> mapps: those power plug networks are excellent
[17:21] <neuro> mine is a 3300 or a 3350 or something
[17:21] <neuro> hmm yeah good point
[17:21] <mapps> it's not essential..but it was a bit annoying last year getting errors logging in ..and when i emailed betfair service desk..0 reply
[17:21] <mapps> yea
[17:21] <mapps> ive never used them
[17:21] <jussi> I have them here for the tele. fantastic.
[17:21] <mapps> i may have to..because having cables all over the house..without it looking rubbish OR dangerous feels like a lot of work?
[17:21] <neuro> i got some tplink ones for my dad, 500Mbps with gigabit eth port and passthrough for the electrical plug so it doesn't eat the socket
[17:22] <neuro> they work really well
[17:22] <mapps> eat th socket?
[17:22] <neuro> you can get the double pack for about 60-70 quid
[17:22] <mapps> lol
[17:22] <neuro> yeah, a lot of powerline adapters use up the socket
[17:22] <mapps> ahh
[17:22] <neuro> and they don't work properly in extension bars
[17:22] <mapps> oh
[17:23] <jussi> yeah, have to be direct socket :)
[17:23] <neuro> <- used to work for a powerline chipset company before they got acquired by broadcom
[17:23] <neuro> well, i was still there when they got acquired, that was interesting
[17:23] <mapps> sw[17:23] <neuro> no
[17:23] <mapps> hm
[17:23] <jussi> oooh! Ubuntu phones now have manufacturers!
[17:24] <neuro> ah here we go
[17:24] <jussi> Meizu and BQ
[17:24] <neuro> http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-TL-PA551KIT-Gigabit-Powerline-Adapter/dp/B00ASJRQQY
[17:24] <neuro> 53 quid, that's brilliant actually
[17:24] <mapps> what did you mean then you said use up the socket
[17:24] <mapps> nice re ubuntu phones
[17:24] <neuro> ok so, you have to plug it into a wall socket for it to work
[17:25] <neuro> but if there's no passthrough for the plug, then you can't use that wall socket for anything else, obviously
[17:25] <mapps> have to be good to make me swtch though - iphone fan:P not apple fan..only app;le product i have
[17:25] <mapps> yea
[17:25] <neuro> that's what i meant
[17:26] <neuro> if you plugged it into one socket on a double or triple or whatever outlet, then only one socket would still get used up
[17:26] <neuro> it's really straightforward
[17:26] <neuro> don't worry about it :)
[17:27] <jussi> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/02/bq-meizu-ubuntu-smartphones-confirmed-for-2014-release
[17:27] <neuro> i have an unopened starter pack sitting at the top of the stairs :)
[17:27] <neuro> keep meaning to deploy it to link my bedroom to my upstairs spare room where my core switch is
[17:27] <neuro> but i haven't needed it yet
[17:27] <neuro> roku + wifi = win
[17:28] <AlanBell> jussi: yeah, interesting, I wonder if they will even make an attempt at international sales
[17:29] <jussi> AlanBell: I think they will
[17:29] <AlanBell> currently I think you have to ssh to the phone to change the locale settings if you want it to not be the default
[17:29] <neuro> i've never heard of either of those OEMs
[17:29] <jussi> neuro: really?
[17:29] <neuro> really
[17:29] <jussi> I thought everyone knew meizu...
[17:30] <jussi> 8cores :D
[17:30] <AlanBell> I had only heard of meizu because of the coverage of that photo of it running Ubuntu
[17:31] <jussi> heh, giess Im in a privelidged area being that I work in the industry...
[17:31]  * jussi wanders off to sauna...
[17:31] <neuro> good grief
[17:31] <neuro> that MX3 looks ridiculous :)
[17:31] <AlanBell> a locale switcher probably isn't the hardest thing to write for it, no doubt there will be a UI to flip it
[17:32] <popey> AlanBell: well done on meizu's part
[17:32] <popey> they posted those pics to gauge interest in ubuntu
[17:32] <popey> worked out well for them and us
[17:32] <AlanBell> but I am not sure I could be bothered to import one from Spain, I gave up on the import of a Firefox OS phone I was trying to do from geeksphone
[17:32] <neuro> ooh wolfson audio part
[17:33] <neuro> the size aside, that meizu handset looks impressive
[17:33] <popey> it does look huge
[17:33] <AlanBell> I am certainly not doing an import from china
[17:33] <popey> my iphone came from china ☻
[17:34] <neuro> i think most people's do ;)
[17:34] <popey> indeed
[17:35] <neuro> just read all of the article
[17:35] <neuro> not sure about the apple bit
[17:36] <neuro> pretty sure apple aren't interested in convergence :)
[17:36] <AlanBell> http://store.meizu.com/category-20.html I am not buying something with an order form in Simplified Han
[17:36] <neuro> but good news overall methinks
[17:37] <neuro> AlanBell: i suspect when they get released, you'll be able to get it through vendors like amazon and expansys
[17:38] <AlanBell> yeah, if they are not just doing the domestic market
[17:38] <neuro> interesting to see the BQ one will be dual sim
[17:39] <neuro> i'm tempted to get a dual sim phone to replace my old iphone 4 and 4S if and when i upgrade to a 5S or whatever comes after that
[17:39] <neuro> new lumia 530 is supposed to be dual sim though ... will find out at MWC next week
[17:39] <AlanBell> popey: is BQ Spain the same thing as BQ india? http://www.bqmobile.com
[17:40] <neuro> doubt it
[17:41] <popey> pass
[17:41] <neuro> BQ's based in Madrid, sells in Spain, Portugal, Argentina and Uruguay
[17:42] <AlanBell> yeah looks like different products, OMGubuntu linked to the wrong one for a bit
[17:42] <neuro> yeah, different
[17:42] <neuro> BQ (née booq) founded in 2009
[17:42] <neuro> BQ Group founded 2012
[17:43] <popey> Phoronix linked to BenQ
[17:43] <neuro> in india
[17:43] <neuro> founded in china in 2006
[17:43] <neuro> and BenQ are nothing to do with either ;)
[17:43] <AlanBell> BenQ have the distinction that I have heard of them :)
[17:43] <AlanBell> I have a BenQ projector
[17:44] <AlanBell> oh, the BQ store does support multiple languages
[17:44] <AlanBell> Spanish, and Portugese
[17:45] <AlanBell> http://store.bqreaders.com/es/aquaris-5-7-blanco does actually look pretty good
[17:47] <neuro> and out of stock ;)
[17:47] <daftykins> what's the topic peeps?
[17:47] <neuro> daftykins: this: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/02/bq-meizu-ubuntu-smartphones-confirmed-for-2014-release
[17:47] <daftykins> ah-har, ty
[17:48] <daftykins> octacore, oh dear
[17:48] <popey> looking forward to playing with these things
[17:48] <AlanBell> the black version is in stock, but kinda irrelevant, we don't know if that model or something else will be the Ubuntu one
[17:48] <neuro> exactly
[17:48] <AlanBell> and I am not sure if Ubuntu Touch has been tested on HD screens
[17:48] <popey> define hd
[17:48] <neuro> 1080?
[17:48]  * popey has a 1920x1200 in his hands
[17:49] <neuro> you beast
[17:49] <popey> also a 2560×1600
[17:49] <AlanBell> cool, does it scale then?
[17:49] <popey> ya
[17:49] <popey> gu n'all that
[17:49] <AlanBell> the gu stuff should in theory sort it out, but last thing I saw on that it was a bit faily
[17:50] <popey> it's a but custom per-device
[17:50] <popey> *bit
[17:50] <popey> it needs a bit of trial and error to find the optimal settings
[17:50] <popey> once thats done per device you're done
[17:50] <neuro> presumably that will get better though
[17:50] <popey> exactly
[17:50] <popey> more devices = more profiles
[17:51] <neuro> you don't want to be hand-qualifying each device for resolution
[17:51] <popey> well you have to hand qualify every device anyway
[17:51] <popey> \o/ arm
[17:51] <neuro> fair point
[17:51] <bigcalm> What's the best way to process a 3.3GB text file?
[17:51] <AlanBell> the big thing is having all developers used to the fact that they won't know the screen size from the very very start
[17:51] <neuro> bigcalm: have 3.3GB of RAM free for starters
[17:52] <bigcalm> neuro: check
[17:52] <bigcalm> Lets see if vim can cope
[17:52] <neuro> bigcalm: then open your copy of Perl in a Nutshell ;)
[17:52] <neuro> vim? seriously?
[17:52] <neuro> good luck
[17:52] <bigcalm> Heh
[17:52] <neuro> go make a cup of tea
[17:52] <AlanBell> possibly a line editor like ed
[17:53] <neuro> what processing are you trying to do anyway?
[17:53] <AlanBell> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1591723/linux-text-editor-for-working-with-huge-files
[17:53] <bigcalm> It's a php.log. So there are timestamps on each line. I only want a smallish window of data from the total file
[17:53] <neuro> so within a date range?
[17:53] <bigcalm> Yep
[17:53] <neuro> grep
[17:54] <bigcalm> I'll start by grepping for today's date, better than nothing
[17:54] <AlanBell> popey: will canonical import and retail the devices?
[17:55] <neuro> bigcalm: this is why i break up logs
[17:55] <neuro> logrotate at midnight
[17:55] <bigcalm> neuro: the file should have been sorted by logrotate but wasn't for some reason
[17:56] <neuro> arg
[17:56] <bigcalm> neuro: that'll change soon
[17:56] <neuro> :)
[17:56] <neuro> actually, sounds like you have the same problem i have
[17:57] <bigcalm> iain@snafu2:~$ pv prod_hes_php.log | grep "^\[19\-Feb\-2014" > today_php.log
[17:57] <bigcalm> 3.27GB 0:00:09 [ 338MB/s] [[17:57] <bigcalm> iain@snafu2:~$ ls -lha today_php.log
[17:57] <bigcalm> -rw-r--r-- 1 iain iain 11M Feb 19 17:56 today_php.log
[17:57] <bigcalm> Weeee
[17:57] <popey> AlanBell: i dont know. unlikely
[17:57] <popey> someone may
[17:59]  * bigcalm wades through a hell of stack traces
[17:59] <bigcalm> Yay having 3 monitors to stretch the window over :)
[18:00] <MartijnVdS> vertically? :)
[18:00] <daftykins> :D
[18:00] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: C++? Java?
[18:00] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: horizontally. I don't want log lines wrapping
[18:00] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Perl's Moose+Catalyst+DBIx::Class
[18:00] <neuro> bigcalm: hehe
[18:00] <neuro> i love bash tho
[18:00] <neuro> root@noc:~# for i in $(dsh -g dotcom-prod -M -- "if [ -s /ndisk/logs/php.log ]; then du -sh /ndisk/logs/php.log; fi" | cut -d: -f2 | awk '{print $1}'); do echo -n "$i "; done; echo
[18:01] <neuro> 526M 561M 555M 550M 529M 563M 566M
[18:01] <neuro> cue everyone slagging my bash skillz
[18:01] <bigcalm> Better than mine. I rarely do anything in bash
[18:01] <bigcalm> I do it all in PHP :D
[18:01] <neuro> i do everything in bas
[18:02] <neuro> jh
[18:02] <daftykins> i don't even tell what that's doing
[18:02] <neuro> doh
[18:02] <daftykins> :D
[18:02] <daftykins> *can't
[18:02] <daftykins> seems i've forgotten how to brain yet again =|
[18:02] <neuro> daftykins: hehe
[18:02] <neuro> ignore the for loop, that was just to echo out the results on one line rather than flooding the channel
[18:02] <neuro> the bit inside the $( ) is using dsh to talk to 19 machines and check for the existence of a log file, and if it's there, do a du on it to get the size
[18:03] <neuro> in human readable form
[18:03] <bigcalm> Nice
[18:03] <neuro> and the cut and awk is just because i'm stupid and left the -M flag in (which prints the machine hostname out with the output, like when you grep multiple files you get the filename at the start of the results on each line)
[18:04] <neuro> actually 19 machines is a lie, i switched 6 of them off yesterday
[18:04] <neuro> ec2++
[18:04] <daftykins> :)
[18:04] <MartijnVdS> 0xec3?
[18:05] <maps|wrk> hello
[18:05] <maps|wrk> ;]
[18:05] <neuro> oh, that dutch humour again
[18:05] <neuro> ;)
[18:05] <neuro> mapps: so you're at work ;)
[18:05] <maps|wrk> yes
[18:05] <maps|wrk> busy busy
[18:05] <maps|wrk> im a worker bee
[18:05] <neuro> seems that way ;)
[18:05] <maps|wrk> an office drone..i live to work
[18:05] <neuro> night shift?
[18:05] <maps|wrk> ya
[18:05] <maps|wrk> always have done
[18:06] <maps|wrk> less busy bodies in which is  a HUGE bonus
[18:06] <neuro> true
[18:06] <neuro> i've had to do a night shift twice in my life
[18:06] <maps|wrk> so i can spend my time on here/on other forums/watching 4 on demand etc;p
[18:06] <neuro> not overly impressed ;)
[18:06] <neuro> ha
[18:06] <neuro> i have a story actually
[18:06] <maps|wrk> during the day pesky self important people wandering around
[18:06] <maps|wrk> neuro:  but its better!
[18:06] <neuro> 24/7 support bod was on nights
[18:06] <neuro> he used to disconnect one of the TVs that ran the alerting system
[18:06] <neuro> plug a playstation in
[18:07] <maps|wrk> hahahaha
[18:07] <maps|wrk> good on him
[18:07] <neuro> did it for months until someone was called out to the DC
[18:07] <neuro> that someone was the duty on call
[18:07] <neuro> and that someone also happened to be the CTO
[18:07] <maps|wrk> heh
[18:07] <neuro> caught the guy playing crash bandicoot or something and not watching the alert board
[18:07] <neuro> he didn't finish his shift
[18:07] <maps|wrk> yea gotta be careful
[18:07] <maps|wrk> i do my job aswell
[18:08] <maps|wrk> just means im a happier employee
[18:08] <maps|wrk> rather than being glued to work rubbish
[18:08] <neuro> there's taking the pee then there's taking the pee ;)
[18:08] <neuro> i guess there's only so much you have to do at night though
[18:09] <neuro> probably more about there being a reactive human presence more than anything
[18:09] <neuro> mind you i'm one to talk, i was up at 3am on saturday morning doing infra work on our cluster to get some shared storage online
[18:09] <maps|wrk> well i have the same to do at night as in day right..but like its basically watching games adding points/goals work for an online bookmaker
[18:09] <neuro> because a) it was 3am and we were deep into our trough
[18:10] <neuro> and b) i was bored
[18:10] <neuro> ah right, so it's stuff like s.american footie, US sports, asian races, etc
[18:10] <maps|wrk> so i dont seewhy i shouldn't do other stuff..they make a fortune off other peoples misery and the jobs boring and dull and i dont learn anything!
[18:10] <maps|wrk> yea
[18:11] <neuro> you'd think, and not wanting to put you out of a job, that's something that could be automated?
[18:11] <neuro> surely there are data feeds for that kind of thing?
[18:11] <maps|wrk> but its boring basically after a while done it for 6 years..its so easy, unchallenging and dull , an idiot could do it imo ...
[18:11] <maps|wrk> yea so a lot of the time its just monitorring neuro
[18:11] <neuro> aaah right
[18:11] <neuro> Just In Case
[18:11] <maps|wrk> monitorring things are feeding in right and the odds are right etc
[18:11] <maps|wrk> yea
[18:12] <maps|wrk> but baseball/baskletball still have user input
[18:12] <neuro> making sure a feed doesn't say brazil just won a football game 185 to nil
[18:12] <neuro> although you know, brazil ...
[18:12] <neuro> watched the man city v barca game last night
[18:12] <maps|wrk> heh
[18:12] <neuro> glad i'm not a city fan
[18:12] <maps|wrk> but yea its still a bit boring..so i do other stuff..read my feeds from feedly/efestivals forum/here etc
[18:12] <neuro> nice
[18:13] <maps|wrk> watch linux videos on youtube..for learning bash scripting etc
[18:13] <neuro> so at least you're bettering yourself ;)
[18:13] <maps|wrk> im always shocked at the people hat sit there starring at the screen just doung their job---either they really dont find it easy or well i dunno
[18:13] <neuro> a job's a job though
[18:14] <maps|wrk> yea..i have a degree and perhaps was a mistake working here..typical of course after i started i got offered a job at the first place id applied
[18:14] <neuro> don't want to descend into cliches but the job market sucks right now, so being in a job, no matter how crap, if it pays the bills ...
[18:14] <maps|wrk> where at the time they said theyd filled the vacancy
[18:14] <neuro> IME, and don't take this personally, a degree is useless in tech
[18:15] <neuro> if a company holds a degree in more regard than experience and/or measurable skill, they're deluding themselves
[18:16] <neuro> it's a nice to have, sure
[18:16] <neuro> :)
[18:16] <directhex> HR people can't evaluate experience easily
[18:16] <daftykins> my degree was definitely a joke
[18:16] <directhex> but they can easily evaluate lists of qualifications
[18:16] <neuro> directhex: depends on the company
[18:17] <neuro> most savvy tech firms these days still filter incoming applications using engineers rather than just HR
[18:17] <neuro> some don't even have real HR departments for that kind of thing, ask github
[18:18] <neuro> at linden lab we did all the screening ourselves
[18:18] <neuro> meant you could quickly weed out the people who were chancing it, and interview the promising people, and from there you'd weed out the people who were good at projecting a decent image, but couldn't hack it in actuality
[18:19] <neuro> i never saw a bad hire the whole time we were there
[18:19] <MartijnVdS> I've seen two in the 8 years I worked at my previous employer
[18:19] <MartijnVdS> both were bad in undetectable-while-hiring ways
[18:19] <neuro> oh i've seen bad hires before
[18:20] <MartijnVdS> even for experts
[18:20] <neuro> one guy was impressive right through to the offer
[18:20] <neuro> his first day he turned up 2 hrs late stinking of booze because he'd been celebrating the night before with mates that he'd gotten the job
[18:20] <neuro> fired on the spot
[18:20] <neuro> (that wasn't at linden lab lol)
[18:22] <maps|wrk> daftykins: why do you say your degree was a joke
[18:22] <maps|wrk> you didnt do film studies
[18:22] <maps|wrk> that;d be a joke
[18:22] <maps|wrk> :D
[18:22] <daftykins> XD
[18:22] <daftykins> well it just wasn't challenging
[18:22] <daftykins> it was if you hadn't used a computer much before, but wowzer
[18:23] <maps|wrk> none of it? not even java or c ? or cripps stuff?
[18:23] <MooDoo> evening all
[18:24] <daftykins> well i was never into coding
[18:24] <MooDoo> planet ubuntu down for anyone else?
[18:24] <maps|wrk> yea but i mean didnt u find any of that hard at all
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: yes
[18:24] <MooDoo> thanks MartijnVdS :S ooops
[18:25] <MooDoo> seems my chrome issue got fixed after a dist-upgrade :D
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> *\o/*
[18:26] <daftykins> maps|wrk: not enough to not pass :D
[18:26] <maps|wrk> heh well thats good u dont wanna fail :P
[18:56] <maps|wrk> http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/csx76x/the-truth-about-webcam-girls
[18:56] <maps|wrk> A former porn star, Sammie was badly scarred by her time spent in the industry. Desperate to move on and study psychology, she nevertheless claims to have -- uhh how about dont do it in the first place
[18:56] <maps|wrk> it's a no brainer
[18:56] <neuro> ah, bbc three
[18:56] <maps|wrk> ya
[18:57] <maps|wrk> riles me when people choose these paths as they think it will be easy money then complain about the side effects
[18:58] <neuro> not wanting to start a massive debate about it in here, a lot of people who end up in that industry and complain about it later didn't know what the realities would be, and probably needed the money
[18:58] <dwatkins> I hear people say sometimes people have no choice, but I find that hard to believe.
[18:58] <neuro> depends on your circumstances
[18:58] <maps|wrk> neuro:  i agree but i mean isnt it obvious its not going to be all it seems
[18:58] <neuro> not really
[18:58] <neuro> especially if it's sold to you as a panacea
[18:58] <dwatkins> yeah, neuro - I probaby have a skewed perspective, as I've been lucky
[18:58] <neuro> exactly
[18:58] <maps|wrk> dwatkins:  me too..when you read that some of them earn hundreds a day right ..they earn big money like they wanted
[18:59] <dwatkins> I guess so, yeah
[18:59] <neuro> but under degrading conditions
[18:59] <maps|wrk> they coyuld have worked on the till at tesco..but they wouldnt get the same kinda money
[18:59] <maps|wrk> yea but i mean they want the big money
[18:59] <maps|wrk> they have the choice of working in a shop?
[18:59] <neuro> what if you can't get work in a shop?
[19:00] <maps|wrk> I'd be surprised , but also benefits..theyre there to pay for peoles rent and a bit more for food
[19:00] <maps|wrk> noone has to become an escort etc..the council pay the rent and give you a few quid a week just not big sums like they want..no?
[19:01] <neuro> thing is, you're trying to understand a situation you haven't been in
[19:01] <maps|wrk> http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/csx7sz/24-hours-in-ae--series-5---episode-7
[19:01] <maps|wrk> http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/qqcs9/snog-marry-avoid--series-5---2-olivia--kate
[19:01] <maps|wrk> ever watched snog marry avoid
[19:01] <dwatkins> clearly we should all be watching the horror channel +1, the original New Adventures of Wonder Woman is on.
[19:01] <maps|wrk> thats huige LOLs
[19:01] <maps|wrk> *huge
[19:01] <dwatkins> They did a remake recently, well a pilot...
[19:02] <maps|wrk> NOO CBS REALITY +1 JUDGE JUDY!!
[19:02] <dwatkins> haha, or Enterprise...
[19:03] <dwatkins> oh my there's a show caled "Psychic Today"
[19:03] <maps|wrk> il be watching 24hrs a&e - possibly snog marry not decided
[19:03] <maps|wrk> lol
[19:03] <maps|wrk> on what chan
[19:03] <neuro> you guys watch some crap tv ;)
[19:03] <dwatkins> 650 on Freesat - Psychic TV
[19:03] <dwatkins> neuro: I rarely watch TV, I'm just looking at what's ok.
[19:03] <maps|wrk> hey judge judys good its been on for years and she's one of the highest paid reality stars;p
[19:03] <neuro> it's really not good ;)
[19:03] <maps|wrk> LOL a whole channel?
[19:04] <dwatkins> maps|wrk: yeah, I find Judge Judy quite entertaining
[19:04] <maps|wrk> bahaha is it one of those lame phone up for 4 quid a minute and she'll tell me live what my future is?
[19:04] <maps|wrk> i like how she just shouts at them lol
[19:04]  * neuro is going to crack on with House of Cards later
[19:04] <maps|wrk> 'I'M NOT INTERESTED ..BE QUIET'
[19:04] <dwatkins> I couldn't bring myself to watch that psychic show
[19:04] <dwatkins> Which House of Cards?
[19:04] <neuro> most "reality" tv is awful
[19:04] <maps|wrk> agree neuro
[19:04] <neuro> dwatkins: which one do you think?
[19:05] <dwatkins> neuro: the new one (which is also good)
[19:05] <maps|wrk> yea
[19:05] <neuro> given that the original is years old, and the new one just had a second season released at the weekend ;)
[19:05] <maps|wrk> u watched it dwatkins ? i still have to..havent eatched ANY of it
[19:05] <dwatkins> oooh
[19:05] <maps|wrk> got season 1 downloaded
[19:05] <dwatkins> I saw season 1 of the new HoC
[19:05] <neuro> "downloaded"?
[19:05] <neuro> tut tut
[19:05] <maps|wrk> what ep you upto neuro ?
[19:05] <neuro> 6
[19:05] <dwatkins> ...then I cancelled my Netflix subscription as it was one of the few things I watched.
[19:05] <maps|wrk> i didnt even know there was an old one!
[19:06] <neuro> oh dear
[19:06] <dwatkins> hehe, hence my asking :)
[19:06] <maps|wrk> tonights a good tv night
[19:06] <maps|wrk> criminal minds..workaholics and men at work!!
[19:06] <JGJones> I was watching Chuck recently.
[19:06] <maps|wrk> http://www.tv.com/shows/workaholics/ checl it if you havent sene it
[19:06] <dwatkins> Chuck is ace
[19:07] <maps|wrk> *seen
[19:07] <maps|wrk> ooh chuck..chuck was cool..the buy more?:D
[19:07] <maps|wrk> and SARAH IS HOT
[19:07] <JGJones> Yup she is :)
[19:07] <dwatkins> well of course she is, that's hte point ;)
[19:07] <maps|wrk> lol
[19:07] <JGJones> Just finished Season 5 of Chuck.
[19:07] <JGJones> I miss Sarah.
[19:07] <maps|wrk> she was in dexter for a bit too!
[19:07] <dwatkins> What was really surreal for me is that I have an ex called Sarah Walker.
[19:07] <JGJones> And I am now on season 7 of Dexter...yah Sarah's back! well as Hannah.
[19:07] <maps|wrk> yep:D
[19:07] <maps|wrk> heh
[19:07] <maps|wrk> still hot
[19:08] <neuro> wednesday nights are crap in the states :)
[19:08] <maps|wrk> just a cold blooded killer this time
[19:08] <JGJones> And according to imdb, she's in that new 24 too.
[19:08] <neuro> mondays and thursdays baby
[19:08] <JGJones> I didn't expect to like Chuck though when I started watching it, 3 weeks ago.
[19:08] <maps|wrk> snog marry report to police ..Hannah McKay (sarah)?
[19:08] <JGJones> (yup...Netflix is awesome for binge watching)
[19:09] <dwatkins> Shame Dexter had to end.
[19:09] <maps|wrk> so which is it to be?:P
[19:09] <maps|wrk> of the 3 options
[19:09] <maps|wrk> considering she's super hot..but a KILLER
[19:09] <dwatkins> JGJones: indeed, but I have a bandwidth cap, sadly
[19:09] <neuro> fail
[19:09] <maps|wrk> and i didnt know that JGJones  that is good..can't wait for the new 24! man 24 is good -
[19:10] <maps|wrk> everyone here seen all of 24?
[19:10] <JGJones> yeah.
[19:10] <neuro> i couldn't survive with a download cap
[19:10] <JGJones> more a question of - who haven't seen it all?
[19:10] <dwatkins> I'm switching ISPs in a couple months.
[19:10] <dwatkins> is the new 24 doing something different in terms of it's real-time thing?
[19:10] <neuro> oh dear oh dear
[19:10] <JGJones> Download cap would screw me esp with my kids - they watch netflix, iplayer, BT sport etc more than they watch live TV.
[19:10] <neuro> www.bt.com
[19:11] <JGJones> 24 - it's 12 hours this time and based in London.
[19:11] <neuro> Issued by: VeriSign Class 3 Extended Validation SSL SGC CA
[19:11] <maps|wrk> yea the new 24 is only like 12 eps o believe?
[19:11] <maps|wrk> yea
[19:11] <dwatkins> JGJones: yeah, a friend of mine has a toddler, they get through 400 GB a month easily
[19:11] <neuro> Expired: Tuesday, 11 Fenruary 2014
[19:11] <neuro> s/Fen/Feb/
[19:11] <maps|wrk> MY NAME'S JACK BAUER AND THIS IS THE LONGEST DAY OF MY LIFE
[19:11] <maps|wrk> my mate at work hasn't seen a single season of 24..;/
[19:11] <neuro> me either
[19:11] <MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: also, no toilet breaks of any kind
[19:11] <JGJones> dwatkins: I haven't looked at how much we get thru a month. I just know it's unlimited and that's all I care about :D
[19:11] <maps|wrk> i remember staying up late (when i was in college) to download it when it finished airing in the states
[19:11] <maps|wrk> MartijnVdS: for who?
[19:11] <maps|wrk> :)
[19:11] <dwatkins> JGJones: I miss those days
[19:12] <maps|wrk> you havent seen ANY neuro ?
[19:12] <maps|wrk> :(
[19:12] <MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: Anyone on 24?
[19:12] <maps|wrk> oh
[19:12] <neuro> saw maybe the first couple of episodes
[19:12] <maps|wrk> lol
[19:12]  * SuperEngineer just tuned into channel, speed read as catchup &... saw "ever watched snog, marry, avoid?" stopped skimming did a double take! [I didn't clock the 1st 2 words at first!]  ;)
[19:12] <maps|wrk> MartijnVdS:  you watched?
[19:12] <neuro> from what i've read about 24 in later seasons, i'm glad i avoided it
[19:12] <maps|wrk> 24 was good but it was also good they didnt carry on and on
[19:13] <maps|wrk> yea it got repetitive and a bit boring sometimes il admit thaty
[19:13] <maps|wrk> but i still loved it - and comparedto a long running show like say eastenders its 1000x better...baffles me how garbage like eastenders/coronation st have been going so long?
[19:13] <JGJones> After Dexter season 7, I'll finish off Br Ba (yes I haven't finished...I tend to switch seasons between shows)
[19:13] <jussi> damn, this could be awesome... Canada are beating Latvia and USA beating Czech Rep.... Means if this stays the same we have Canada vs USA and Sweden Vs Finland semi finals. AWESOME!
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> jussi: suomi finals? ;)
[19:14] <JGJones> and then I'll watch House of Cards...after that...I have no idea.
[19:14] <dwatkins> I like discovering new shows and watching them all the way through.
[19:14] <maps|wrk> in what? ice hockey?
[19:14] <neuro> I really need to catch up on stuff
[19:14] <neuro> neuro@saratoga:/data/media$ du -sh TV\ Shows/
[19:14] <neuro> 4.0T    TV Shows/
[19:14] <jussi> maps|wrk: yep
[19:14] <maps|wrk> hahaha nice neuro
[19:14] <dwatkins> I ripped most of my DVDs
[19:14] <maps|wrk> a lot to watch eh
[19:14] <dwatkins> currently have a couple TB or so
[19:14] <neuro> i dare not rip my DVDs
[19:15] <neuro> crappy region 2 PAL copies
[19:15] <dwatkins> why not, neuro?
[19:15] <dwatkins> oh ok
[19:15] <neuro> 5% speed up sucks
[19:15] <maps|wrk> whys that matter though
[19:15] <maps|wrk> 5% speed because its region 2?!
[19:15] <neuro> 5% speed because it's PAL
[19:15] <maps|wrk> uh
[19:16] <jussi> and about 1 min to go... USA have it in the bag, (5-2) but canada could still mess it up (2-1)
[19:16] <neuro> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/576i#PAL_speed-up
[19:16] <maps|wrk> so what was the answer..sarah from chuck aka hannah mcckay you can snog her..marry her ..report her to the police... ..snog and then run away:)
[19:16] <maps|wrk> jussi:  nice
[19:16] <maps|wrk> yea but
[19:16] <maps|wrk> jussi:  i guess latvia pull goalie could end 3-1 canada
[19:16] <neuro> and if there's one thing I hate, it's things that sound weird
[19:17] <jussi> maps|wrk: maybe, but could also go the other way...
[19:17] <neuro> and movies playing at 5% faster than they should do sounds weird
[19:17] <maps|wrk> yea of course
[19:17] <maps|wrk> thats why they pull the goalie eh :)
[19:17] <maps|wrk> if Latvia won and cz lose whats that mean for the fins?
[19:17] <neuro> and also there's something particularly awesome about 1080p24
[19:17] <dwatkins> I'd snog Sarah, but I'd be thinking of Suranne Jones.
[19:18] <maps|wrk> google image search time;p
[19:18] <neuro> and my new tv does 24p properly unlike my old, old one which didn't
[19:18] <maps|wrk> ah
[19:18] <dwatkins> she played the TARDIS in "The Doctor's Wife" as well as being in Scott & Bailey
[19:18] <jussi> maps|wrk: its already drawn that the finns are playing sweden.
[19:18] <maps|wrk> coronation st!
[19:18] <maps|wrk> so what does these games matter?
[19:19] <jussi> and the winners of USA vs Czech and Canada vs Latvia play each other
[19:19] <jussi> then the winners of those play each other for the gold/silver
[19:19] <jussi> and the losers play off for bronze
[19:22] <maps|wrk> 2-1 FINAL
[19:22] <maps|wrk> jussi 's happy :)
[19:23] <jussi> yep, now we get the fun of USA vs Canada :D
[19:24] <neuro> bah
[19:24] <neuro> my mac mini through in the lounge isn't responding to anything but icmp echo :(
[19:24] <maps|wrk> whats it running
[19:24] <maps|wrk> USA to win it all?:P
[19:25] <neuro> it's a mac, what do you think it's running?
[19:25] <maps|wrk> well i thought you can run ubuntu on mac now
[19:25] <neuro> and i would do that, why? :)
[19:25] <maps|wrk> no idea!
[19:26] <neuro> i've said repeatedly i don't run ubuntu desktop
[19:26] <neuro> 5 macs and 2 dells in the house, none of them run ubuntu
[19:26] <maps|wrk> pah fine ubuntu server?:P
[19:26] <neuro> 5 intel macs anyway :)
[19:26] <neuro> server? of course
[19:27] <maps|wrk> i just meant ubuntu generally:P
[19:27] <neuro> i run OS X native on my macs, win7 VMs on a couple, and win7/8 on my dells
[19:27] <neuro> win 7 by choice on one, win 8 not by choice on the other
[19:27] <maps|wrk> i dont really like win8
[19:27] <maps|wrk> prefer 8
[19:27] <neuro> me either
[19:27] <maps|wrk> 7
[19:28] <neuro> but it's only for games, and i've got it rigged to boot to desktop, so i rarely if ever look at the metro stuff
[19:28] <maps|wrk> used windows 8 on the dell xps12 and just cant get used to it
[19:29] <maps|wrk> http://www.dell.com/uk/p/xps-12-l221x/pd - lovely ultrabook/laptop whatever u wanna call it imo
[19:30] <daftykins> heh
[19:31] <ali1234> why is my centos webserver firewalling my google mini crawler?
[19:31] <neuro> selinux?
[19:31] <neuro> apache config?
[19:31] <neuro> it's centos?
[19:31] <jpds> systemd?
[19:32] <neuro> zing :)
[19:32] <ali1234> someone or something added a drop rule to iptables
[19:32] <neuro> do you have something running that's auto adding rules based on packet rates?
[19:33] <neuro> maybe your mini spammed it too hard
[19:33] <ali1234> i assume that is what happened
[19:34] <daftykins> i'm playing fault find the net connection tonight
[19:34] <maps|wrk> whats wrong with it daftykins
[19:34] <maps|wrk> unstable?
[19:35] <daftykins> i've seen my downstream SNR drop to 2/3
[19:35] <daftykins> 8Mb come off my downstream sync rate
[19:35] <maps|wrk> hm
[19:35] <daftykins> if i infinitely ping google.co.uk i see packet loss here and there
[19:36] <maps|wrk> didnt you say weather seems to affect it? although weather seems ok (here at least atm)
[19:36] <daftykins> i was wondering if all the rain was trashing my phone line
[19:36] <jpds> daftykins: You should be fine with 3% packet loss: http://revk.www.me.uk/2014/02/bt-official-3-packet-loss-is-not-fault.html
[19:36] <daftykins> an engineer called to tell me i can get stuffed if i want my war-time connection upgraded though
[19:37] <maps|wrk> lol
[19:37] <neuro> hehe the rev is awesome
[19:37] <neuro> he makes bt do things even bt don't realise they can do
[19:37] <maps|wrk> so even switching isp would be useless if they wont sort your line:<
[19:38] <daftykins> http://pastebin.com/4djqZer5
[19:38] <daftykins> gotta love my route
[19:38] <maps|wrk> Web Page Blocked  Access to the web page you were trying to visit has been blocked in accordance with company policy. Please contact your system administrator if you believe this is in error.
[19:38] <maps|wrk> =[
[19:38] <jpds> Quick trip to Paris sounds like a good idea.
[19:39] <neuro> http://teamcoco.com/video/fan-correction-admiral-ackbar
[19:45] <JGJones> Good luck to Rev getting BT to fix a fault :)
[19:46] <JGJones> I've had problems with BT that lasted nearly a year (I stuck with it because I was getting it free when it was working)
[19:46] <neuro> JGJones: adrian is a master at it
[19:47] <JGJones> End result - complete replacement of line from house to where it split from main trunk or whatever.
[19:48] <JGJones> (that's after they kept sending me a new replacement router etc etc etc)
[19:48] <JGJones> now that it all works flawlessly, I'm now paying for it. Sigh.
[19:48] <JGJones> and no fibre or cable :(
[19:49] <daftykins> heh
[19:49] <daftykins> i'm not in England so i'm not at the mercy of BT
[19:49] <neuro> *cough*infinityisn'tfibre*cough*
[19:49] <daftykins> ^+1
[19:49] <JGJones> True.
[19:49] <daftykins> nor is Virgin Media ;D
[19:50] <daftykins> my how the term is getting abused these days
[19:50] <neuro> nope
[19:50] <JGJones> Still...."fibre" is faster than what I currently have.
[19:50] <neuro> i know, it winds me up
[19:50] <JGJones> I don't mind the line speed - I get around 15-16Mbs - that's fine.
[19:50] <JGJones> It's the upload speed that annoy me.
[19:50]  * neuro looks at his 2x 75/19 ...
[19:50] <JGJones> 385Kbs is a bit of a joke.
[19:51] <JGJones> (I make quite a lot of video calls - so 385Kbs is pitiful)
[19:52] <neuro> if 2014 me could go back in time to 2000 me when I moved into this house, and said "one day you'll have an aggregate of 150Mbps down, 38 up in this house", 2000 me would either have punched 2014 me in the face for bragging or 2000 me would have passed out from the shock
[19:52] <JGJones> I sometime wonder if I'm just better off to switching to Three mobile broadband.
[19:52] <neuro> 45 quid a month i was paying back then for unlimited dialup (plus the line rental)
[19:52] <JGJones> It's faster than what I get with ADSL2+
[19:52] <neuro> JGJones: if it's faster and you know you'll stay within the cap, why don't you?
[19:53] <JGJones> but I think even Three would balk at over 500GB a month.
[19:53] <neuro> well yeah
[19:53] <JGJones> Not usually that high, but still...a few hundreds a month.
[19:53] <neuro> i'm probably about the same
[19:54] <JGJones> funny...piracy free and it's higher data consumption.
[19:55] <daftykins> neuro: XD
[19:56] <ali1234> is APF a redhat/centos thing
[19:56] <neuro> https://www.dropbox.com/s/2qqvzdfgv19ae5x/status_rrd_graph_img_sky.png
[19:56] <neuro> https://www.dropbox.com/s/fx1ynxbtdv8dyrj/status_rrd_graph_img_bt.png
[19:57] <neuro> https://www.dropbox.com/s/s128bh1vnuaeoi5/status_rrd_graph_img_v6.png
[19:57]  * neuro giggles
[20:00] <maps|wrk> hmm
[20:00] <maps|wrk> i cant run sudo under my own username
[20:09] <ali1234> how can i see which pubkey someone authenticated with?
[20:09] <ali1234> (ssh)
[20:14] <ali1234> hmmmmmmm this server is a damn mess
[20:15] <jussi> ali1234: Im sorry, Ill clean up next time :P :P
[20:34] <SuperMatt> anyone want a copy of antichamber?
[20:35] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: sure. Trade for super hexagon?
[20:35] <SuperMatt> that a linux game in steam?
[20:35] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: yes
[20:35] <hazrpg> \o
[20:35] <SuperMatt> sent you a link
[20:38] <maps|wrk> has anyone ever done much with PXE? Can you boot the entire OS image off a network or is it just for installing over a network boot?
[20:38] <SuperMatt> in theory, you could
[20:39] <SuperMatt> but man, that'd be a pain
[20:39] <maps|wrk> yea
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> I've actually done that ;)
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> NFS root
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> it was.. flaky
[20:39] <maps|wrk> so whats it usually used for? Usually used for just booting an image to install from over a network?
[20:39] <maps|wrk> MartijnVdS:  dont suppose you wrote about what you did or have any links for info just interested
[20:40] <MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: yes,  preseeded netboot
[20:40] <maps|wrk> aha il look that up thanks
[20:40] <maps|wrk> but in a normal environment pxe would be used to serve up say the windows/ubuntu image or whatever for the client machine to install off of?
[20:41] <MartijnVdS> no, just the netboot/ directory from the Ubuntu CD (a kernel, a ramdisk and a pxeboot config file, basically)
[20:41] <maps|wrk> and then get the rest off where?
[20:42] <MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: http
[20:42] <hazrpg> yeah, just off the internet
[20:44] <MartijnVdS> or a local mirror
[20:44] <hazrpg> I guess, you could probably serve it off the local... what MartijnVdS said :P
[20:45] <dwatkins> some clusters boot the entire OS across the network as the nodes have no local storage
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> but then you need enough ram for that
[20:46] <dwatkins> each node has its own directory on the server containing its own copy of the OS
[20:47] <dwatkins> iirc the BIOS of each node is set to PXE or TFTP boot from the server
[20:47] <dwatkins> EFI and PXE, it seems
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I instal my VMs using PXE, and then store everything on iscsi.. that should work for storage-less "hardware" nodes, right? :)
[20:48] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: absolutely, yeah
[20:48] <dwatkins> it might not be the most efficient solution, depends what you do. In some case (e.g. keeping a snapshot of the OS for fast and easy deployment) it can really help
[20:50] <MartijnVdS> though with iscsi, you're always snapshotting a running image
[20:50] <maps|wrk> yea
[20:50] <MartijnVdS> hence the pxe
[20:50] <dwatkins> oh, it has snapshots built-in?
[20:50] <maps|wrk> always snapshptting a running image..what does that mean?!
[20:50] <dwatkins> that sounds handy
[20:51] <MartijnVdS> it's like turning a machine off by yanking the power
[20:51] <MartijnVdS> then copying the disk
[20:52] <MartijnVdS> it'll require an fsck at least, might induce data loss
[20:52] <dwatkins> I wonder if it only finalises a file (document, image etc.) that's being written after the write is complete.
[20:53] <maps|wrk> but you say its always snapshotting? i still dont get what that means..so even whole running?
[20:53] <dwatkins> that way you are most likely to only have uncorrupted files if the snapshot is taken during write
[20:53] <MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: you can always make a snapshot, not 'it's always snapshotting'
[20:54] <maps|wrk> oh
[20:54] <maps|wrk> so does that eab saving the current state of machine like vms can do?
[20:55] <MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: only the disk, not the memory/cpu state.
[20:56] <maps|wrk> still dont fully get it il have to google..not like backing up is it
[20:57] <MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: it's like pausing a VM, then copying the disk byte for byte, then restarting the VM
[20:57] <maps|wrk> ahh ok but when/how does it do it?
[20:57] <MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: when you ask it to!
[20:58] <MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: the iscsi target (server), that is
[20:58] <MartijnVdS> it's a "disk over the network" kind of thing, so it's easier to snapshot than a real disk :)
[21:00] <maps|wrk> why would that be any easier
[21:00] <maps|wrk> but ok i kinda get it now
[21:00] <MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: you don't have to pause the machine, yank the disk out, copy it, then put the disk back in and unpause :)
[21:00] <maps|wrk> oh :)
[21:41] <maps|wrk> Quiet again here now eh
[21:46] <JGJones> Well we can't keep talking about Yvonne Strahovski all night long can we? ;-)
[22:01] <maps|wrk> well
[22:01] <maps|wrk> :)
[22:02] <maps|wrk> first dates on chan4, that show can be amusing
[23:00] <maps|wrk> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2562807/Now-thats-super-size-snack-Chocoholics-create-giant-versions-Oreos-Double-Deckers-Creme-Eggs.html
[23:00] <maps|wrk> lol
[23:00] <maps|wrk> pimp my snack!
[23:39] <directhex> pimp my snack is, like,10+ years ago now, no?
[23:40] <maps|wrk> perhaps
[23:40] <maps|wrk> i just saw that article
[23:40] <maps|wrk> woudjt fancy eating any opf them:)