[00:02] I wonder how ksplice (oracle) differentiate between a desktop install of ubuntu vs a server install? [00:02] (desktop gets freebies, whereas server doesn't) [00:06] I didn't think either got anything anymore? [00:08] apparently ubuntu desktop gets freebies, and legacy account holders get ubuntu-server updates as part of their plan [00:08] new account holders are limited to oracle linux [00:09] looks like they also have a "30 day trial" for RHEL [00:10] oracle customers need to get access via "ULN"? [00:10] aah, unbreakable linux network [00:11] as if they have a network of people involved [00:14] hey [00:16] allo maps|wrk [00:17] whats everyone upto? [00:19] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2561995/When-Jane-56-met-Michael-28-holiday-The-Gambia-thought-true-love-But-happened-left-sister-fearing-life.html [00:19] how on earth do people fall for that [00:19] d'uh [00:27] dang [00:36] odd eh [00:39] lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA56LgpFbSw [00:39] honda advert for dogs [00:47] lol [01:27] anyone watched babylon? [01:41] I don't think I know of it [01:42] channel 4? [01:42] looks interesting [01:43] rgh @ 4od adverts [01:44] ya chan4 4od [01:44] haha yea irritating eh [01:44] irritating that there seems to be ads on ALMOST everytihng on youtube too these days eh [01:50] lol - the police come off really well in the first few minutes.. or not [01:51] haha you gonna watch it all? let me know if its worth watching ..will watch it when im home if it is:) === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [03:06] that was actually pretty good [03:06] somewhat of an experimental directing style.. shaky camera syndrome [04:45] hey [04:45] diddledan, wortgh watching then? [06:04] mapps: yeah, it seems to be the start of what could be a good series [06:04] I wonder if they got any money from TED for including a TED Talk-esque bit [06:11] cool willl check it out the ads made me wonder about it [06:11] said from creators of pep show and danny boylwe [06:11] *boyle [06:13] at the least watch the first episode as I have and then decide whether to watch the rest when they're aired - I think I shall be watching the rest [06:13] * diddledan sky+'s it [06:14] ya will do [06:14] was just watching the following else id have watched it now:) [06:14] heh [06:21] not working early i guess?:) [06:31] hrm, where is MooDoo today? :( [07:45] \o [07:45] morning [07:47] allo [07:50] GAH, I can't find my lanyard [07:50] Which has my RSA token on it [07:50] Anyone have the magic hack for RSA? [07:51] morning boys and girls. [07:55] Morning all [07:57] morning diplo [08:25] morning everyone [08:26] morning knightwise [09:01] Good morning peeps :) [09:03] YO! [09:12] Yos [09:12] They go up and down [09:13] exciting day [09:13] Oh, what happens? [09:15] there's some sort of thing happening at 16:30? [09:15] diddledan: there will be 1.5 hours left to the day at that point [09:17] i love using ssh on my phone. [09:17] hmm, can't find the email now [09:19] popey: tell me I'm not going mad [09:20] yes [09:20] I can't find the email but I'm sure something was happening today [09:20] squee [09:22] I'm guessing something phone related? [09:23] I think I recall something about MWC (mobile world congress?) [09:23] I've got a feeling the NSA have excised all reference from my gmail however [09:23] Oh, of course MWC [09:24] the only reference in my gmail to mwc and ubuntu or canonical is from january [09:24] suggesting dates of 24-27 [09:26] I swear I saw an email yesterday [09:33] Good morning all; happy Tug o' War Day! :-D [09:44] hey folks [09:49] ahoy [09:52] ahoj dwatkins [09:55] pip pip [10:03] tally ho [10:04] howdy! [10:16] strange. youtube works in chrome, but not in chromium... [10:21] what flash version does Chromium have, and is PPAPI and NPAPI enabled, jussi? [10:21] dwatkins: I have actually no idea how to check those things ? [10:21] chrome://plugins [10:22] ctrl+F, type "flash" [10:22] Adobe Flash Player - Version: 11.2 r202 [10:22] Shockwave Flash 11.2 r202 [10:22] Name: Shockwave Flash [10:22] what are these PPAPI and NPAPI ? [10:23] There are two instances of Flash in Chrome, one using the old API, the other using a new one, afaik. In some cases, you might disable one or the other for compatability reasons. [10:23] https://code.google.com/p/ppapi/ has more info [10:24] ok. how do I check they are enabled ? [10:25] there should be a link to disable each just under the "type" line in the chrome://plugins page [10:26] hehe, details wasnt expanded, thought this was a bit abre [10:26] bare [10:26] but seems everything is enabled :/ [10:28] what are the symptoms? [10:28] (and do you have flash block enabled, I assume not...) [10:38] dwatkins: many many youtube videos look like this: http://i.imgur.com/iATtNHS.png [10:38] If I copy tyhe url and open in chrome, it works [10:40] curioser and curioser, perhaps the developer panel will show you more info [10:40] also, check if you have HTML5 enabled at https://www.youtube.com/html5 [10:42] default player is currently used [10:43] meh, Ill switch to html5 and see if that helps [10:58] that video plays for me as HTML5 in Chromium [11:13] now a couple of months old, but heck, this sounds pretty bad! http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/nov/13/wikileaks-trans-pacific-partnership-chapter-secret [11:18] nothing about the great pacific garbage island, then [11:58] best practice for server room temperature? [11:59] varies wildly [12:01] what do ppl in here do? [12:02] trying to keep the datacenter goosebump-chilly is old-school but cost ineffective. 'hot aisle containment' is a nice theory but fussy in practice. a newer trend is letting stuff run at 40-50C to save on cooling costs. google appear to be fond of that one [12:02] 40-50, you sure? [12:03] you mean internal temps [12:03] nor air temp [12:03] I literally mean running the datacenter so hot that it's inhumane to have staff in there for more than 10-15 minutes at a time [12:04] got a link for that? [12:04] i thouht they ran it between 18-27 degrees [12:04] https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2012/03/23/too-hot-for-humans-but-google-servers-keep-humming/ [12:04] servers tend to buckle and solder melts at 40-50 [12:05] http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/podcast/As-data-center-cooling-costs-rise-hot-is-the-new-cool-Podcast-QA [12:05] . ?We?ve had very few excursion hours, and they don?t last long, so we let the site run right through them. We ask our employees to go in and do office work. It?s too warm for people, but the machines do just fine.? [12:05] typically they run cooler most of year though [12:06] right. they're running more and more datacenters on free air. so summer can suck [12:06] foobarry: Use to run mine at about 22-23 degrees room temp [12:07] I have no really servers any more at new company so don't have that issue, but this was for 60+ servers + 10kva ups etc [12:07] we do hot-aisle-containment, but we also sell it, so I think we have to [12:08] it's great in theory but you have to be incredibly strict about blanking panels, else you get open loops where the front can suck air straight from the back and ruin the gig [12:08] I wanted to implement that shauno, they wouldn't spend any more money :/ [12:09] hey guys - how can I peg a package version installed on ubuntu so I can run an apt get upgrade and that particular package will be held back? [12:09] it'll also make you hate cisco with a passion, because they cool left-to-right instead of front-to-back [12:09] bubu: the process is called apt pinning [12:10] bubu: that's as much as I can tell you about it because I don't know how it works [12:10] diddledan: looking now, thanks [12:10] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PinningHowto [12:10] bingo === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [12:57] every news story now: "this annoyed som etwitter users who took to the social network site to complain" [12:58] "Then, some guys complained about the constant complaining on Twitter. 'Twitter used to be just people posting links to cat pictures. Now we want them back!'" [12:58] foobarry: "news".... pffft. I havent seen real news from a UK paper for a long time (excluding maybe some peices from the guardian) [12:58] Did you see the pictures of the UK being washed into the sea? [12:59] https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/436076552611061760/photo/1 [12:59] eh.... run out of coffee drinking instant one =(((( [12:59] ew [13:00] the rain is rather unusual..not had so much for 250+ years [13:00] something to do with gay marriage allegedly [13:01] Hmmph, don't talk to me about marriage [13:01] Lady I was going to date at the weekend won't date me... because my ex-wife isn't dead. [13:01] :-| [13:01] I politely explained to her that I'm not quite ready to kill for a date. Yet. === alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch [13:01] thought you said "is dead" [13:02] awilkins: stage a date at a funeral =) that would be so much fun! [13:02] Ah, no, if she was dead it would have been OK. [13:02] (it doesn't have to be ex-wife's funeral...) [13:02] didn't want to date a divorcee? [13:02] awilkins: that's a bit misleading. it usually looks like that [13:02] Belongs to some sect that believes marriage is for life even if you're divorced [13:02] yes a widow is fine... wtf?! [13:03] eg, april 2002, http://eoimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/ve//3065/UK.A2002096.1110.1km.jpg [13:03] * bigcalm is happy to be husband number two [13:03] awilkins: most people who people that usually say it depends if the divorce happened due to adultery [13:03] oooh, sunlight! [13:03] there's a reason most of lincolnshire is pretty much "meh" on anglosaxon maps. they didn't even consider it territory. we do have some naturally silty rivers [13:04] shauno: that looks like a minecraft map [13:05] foobarry, She didn't ask about that (just for the channel log - no adultery) [13:06] I think I may have subsequently burned the already fallen bridge by expressing the opinion that religious moral positions are basically pick-n-mix from a book so tangled, self-contradictory, and selectively edited that you can probably justify almost anything. [13:07] ie - If I literally believed things in Deuteronomy I would have justification for killing my daughter, etc [13:08] You learn something new every day - middle clicking on a window's title bar sends that window to the bottom of the stack [13:08] Oh, I do that by accident all the time [13:08] Middle clicking tabs to close them in Chromium mostly [13:08] middle-clicking links to open them in new tabs :) [13:11] Surprised that my super-duper gamey mouse has a leaf switch for middleclick actually [13:12] awilkins: gamey mouse? As in "caught in the woods"? [13:13] One of these fellows : http://www.corsair.com/en/gaming-peripherals/gaming-mice/vengeance-m65-fps-laser-gaming-mouse-green-military-green.html [13:13] not just green [13:13] but green, millitary green [13:14] It's a really nice mouse.. and I like the colour. [13:14] awilkins: that looks uncomfortable, with the corners and everything [13:14] It's really comfy, but I suspect it's no good for a southpaw [13:14] i used to really like my thinkpad mouse with the blue wheel that wasn't a wheel [13:14] which lit up [13:15] popey: how does that work? a wheel that's not a wheel? [13:15] Was it a touchpad? [13:15] more like a joystick [13:15] Or another optical sensor? [13:15] Was it a strain-gauge pointer like the thinkpad touchpoint thing [13:15] awilkins: I have a serial 3-button ball mouse at home :) [13:15] I got shot of all my ballmice years ago [13:16] cant find a pic of one now [13:16] yes awilkins [13:16] I think I found one the other day and had a nostalgic minute or two scraping mousegunk off the rollers [13:16] mmmmm gunk [13:17] awilkins: your mouse looks similar to the RAT 7 gaming mouse from cyborggaming. [13:17] popey, That's kinda "Yo dawg, I heard you like pointing devices so I put a pointing device on your pointing device..." [13:17] well indeed [13:17] I've gone back to using a ball mouse. But only because it's a trackball [13:17] Ball gunk is a pain once more [13:17] I used a trackball for a few weeks, but I prefer trackpads. [13:17] now i wonder if it wasnt lenovo [13:17] dwatkins, The RAT 7 just struck me as really uncomfy looking,,, [13:18] bah [13:18] awilkins: apparently it's great once you've adjusted it etc. [13:19] rated for 20 million clicks sounds to me like a mouse which would last 4 years [13:19] (assuming one click per second, 8 hours a day, 180 days a year) [13:19] dwatkins, I have a very old MS optical one that still works fine [13:20] I definitely don't click once per second [13:20] as do I, awilkins - one of the ones which used to be shiny white and is now shiny beige [13:20] I type mostly [13:20] I'm thinking of FPS games, although my estimates were for working hours [13:20] likewise, and I use a lot of keyboard shortcuts [13:20] found it! [13:21] http://www.ebay.co.uk/ctg/Lenovo-31P7405-Optical-Mouse-/96854594 [13:22] one click a second?! [13:23] popey: wow, those are the ones we get by default with our Thinkpads, they tend to get thrown out fairly quickly [13:23] I think I have a couple in my desk drawer [13:23] is that blue job a nipple? [13:23] ! [13:23] kinda [13:23] does it scroll sideways? [13:24] cant remember [13:24] i love them [13:24] fair enough, each to their own :) [13:24] but i like touchpoints too [13:24] I have an Apple Magic Mouse, it's ace as it has a trackpad on top [13:24] disable my touchpad, people who use my laptop can't scroll [13:24] my laptop mostly gathers dust during the week whilst I use an external keyboard and mouse [13:25] Yeah [13:25] hot dust [13:25] '96 vintage Model M at home [13:25] Cherry G80-3000 with clickity switches at work [13:25] mine gets yanked out of the dock repeatedly during the day [13:25] * awilkins loves his Model M [13:25] awilkins: I have one too - made it reminiscent of an Acorn Archimedes: http://i.imgur.com/u2RqAAe.jpg [13:26] Love it that when you strike the enter key when you're peed off it SOUNDS LIKE YOU MEAN IT [13:26] heh [13:26] I used to work with someone who typed like that, you could tell their mood quite easily just by listening to the typing [13:26] and now keyboards just break ;) [13:26] keyboards break?! [13:27] I go through a mouse a year, but I never have to change my keyboard. [13:27] I swear, all the people with RSI who have ergo keyboards should just get a Model M or something else with decent keyswitches [13:27] my Model M is like a tank - I think I've put it in the bath at least twice, too [13:27] I thought it was mostly mice that caused RSI, no idea though. [13:27] bryce? [13:27] I bought Mum a Cherry when her arthritic fingers started playing up (she was a legal secretary, typing all day) and it cleared up in 2 weeks [13:27] I find the left shift key and space bars break :/ [13:28] hamitron: do you play Kerbal Space Program too forcibly? ;) [13:28] It's the clicky feedback that lets you know when to stop pushing [13:28] but I am generally in a bad mood when writing a report, and the space bar "gets it" [13:28] As opposed to the smushy "TV Remote" feel you get from standard keyboards [13:28] ZX Spectrum... [13:28] Fun fact - they ARE essentially a TV remote, but with hard keycaps on top [13:28] makes sense [13:29] according to Tim Berners Lee, we're all either developers or consumers [13:29] (of media) [13:29] What about those of us who do both? [13:32] well quite [13:33] I was reading up about HTML5 and DRM, which I really shouldn't do unless I want to get annoyed. === alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g === alan_g is now known as alan_g|tea [15:53] enabling drm as a supported media in html doesn't improve matters from npapi+activex. at all. we still end up with the requirement to install numerous third-party plugins to support the drm as we used to require to support video === alan_g|tea is now known as alan_g [15:54] And what problem does the Digital Repression Mechanism actually solve? [15:54] TwistedLucidity: imposing restrictions on legitimate uses [15:54] diddledan: That's the problem it creates, not solves. :-( [15:54] from an end-user perspective it solves nothing. from a studio perspective it solves everything [15:55] Yeah, that's why there's no copyright infringement of DRM media.....wait a minute.....! [15:56] there's more copyright infringement per capita on DRMed media than there is on open media [15:56] QED [15:57] so the answer is obviously to make the DRM harder to crack [15:59] I really wish geolocking would die as a business model. it'd make a whole lot of DRM simply irrelevant [16:00] yeah, I hate when even the trailers are geolocked [16:00] I think one company had the correct response - HBO. "Oh look, 'Game of thrones' is the most infringed program. Let's try and remove the incentive to infringe." And they start releasing the box sets quickly and for a fair price. Nice. [16:01] what if we could just subscribe to HBO? [16:01] There's a film called "Knights of Badassdom" I'd like to watch, funny silliness. Available for digital download from Amazon, Google Play etc. Can I download it? No. Geo-locked. Morons! [16:02] I had a chuckle recently; an irish film that's available to stream on netflix-us, but not netflix-ie [16:02] shauno: The great debate there is being able to do a la carte. If I could just get one or two channels, that'd do me. [16:02] hulu really needs to be available in the uk, too [16:03] there are situations in which DRM makes at least some sense, such as companies making training material available to other companies who pay for it [16:03] I'm not aware of another way for them to protect this kind of content [16:04] dwatkins: change it from a product (training materials) to a service (training seminas) [16:04] seminar* [16:05] diddledan: seminars have restricted entry, you need a ticket [16:06] they're also useless [16:06] we don't have every staff member on every day; we can rarely have them all free at the same time. and they won't pause while I go refuel [16:06] so you end up paying for the same thing 3 times trying to rotate everyone through [16:07] shauno: good business if you can convince someone to do that [16:07] (per site ..) [16:07] 3 times the income [16:07] fair enough, there can be problems, but for a lecture you're attending which is chargeable, you'd need to buy a ticket somehow [16:08] Is infringement of such training material an actual problem? [16:09] no, I'm trying to understand whether there's an analogue for DRM in such a situation [16:09] people might sneak in, for example [16:10] someone might record the session from Google Glass or a hand held camera secretly [16:10] it doesn't need to be covert. if you're at our site, you're on cctv in common areas [16:10] I want some googley glass [16:11] I found myself wanting it after the cheap chinese plastic windscreen mount for my Nexus 4 broke [16:12] for some companies, this is their bread and butter, and they are required by their customers to keep such material secret (trade secrets, etc.) [16:12] I really wish it wasn't google :/ [16:12] apparently it's illegal to drive with googley glass installed [16:12] I want some anti-googley glass. [16:12] I thought the court case decided it was ok to drive with Glass on [16:12] in the uk at least [16:12] oh, different case, perhaps [16:13] it's such a double-edge. on one hand, they've got the drive, the ability and the funding to do neat things. on the other hand, they're google. [16:13] I am running a command (http://bin.cakephp.org/view/138753539) and it outputs to a file AND shows warnings on screen, is there a way I can disable the warnings or redirect them to /dev/null ? [16:13] a HUD in my car would be useful [16:13] SOREEN [16:13] shauno: what's wrong with a corporate entity knowing when I last washed my private parts? [16:13] YOU BEAUTY [16:13] dogmatic69: command 2>1 >/dev/null [16:14] dwatkins: and that wont affect the file output? [16:14] also where about in the command would I put that? [16:14] shauno: and having video footage of the act [16:14] its a bit of a crazy command [16:14] hmm, might need to use tee and pipe it [16:15] 2>/dev/null [16:15] never heard of that [16:15] dogmatic69: ini_set('display_errors', 'false'); [16:15] diddledan: its a command running on jenkins [16:15] you can do 2>onefile 1>anotherfile [16:16] shauno: and "command > file" is the same as "command 1> file"? [16:16] oic, it's not php despite being posted on a php framework site :-/ [16:16] :-p [16:16] so all your command is belong to us 2>/dev/null 1>youroutput [16:16] I like 2>&1 [16:17] shauno: thanks, will try that [16:17] diddledan: that will put the warnings in the other file? [16:17] dogmatic69: yeah, >out is 1>out. 1 is stdout, 2 is stderr [16:17] just because it looks funky [16:17] 2>&1 puts all stderr output onto the stdout pipe [16:19] so what's sloccount do? [16:19] diddledan: counts lines of code [16:19] like wc -l? [16:19] a bit more smart [16:20] it is language aware and can check comments vs actual code, generated code etc. [16:20] diddledan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_lines_of_code has a pretty decent description of the problem [16:20] c, c++, php etc. not sure what all it does [16:21] short version, foo(i) { do(i); } could be 1 line as I've written it, 4 lines if indented one way, 3 lines if indented another ... 'sloc' is meant to normalize it so you've got something that's useful as a metric [16:22] s/useful/normalized [16:22] (I put the first brace under the 'foo' in such an example; does that mean I'm more productive than people who put it on the end of the function line? wc -l thinks so!) [16:23] Normalized is useful. Because it's comparable. [16:23] ye [16:23] Although I'm quite guilty of just doing find -name *.java | xargs cat | wc -l somtimes [16:23] random: I put braces on the same line as the definition [16:23] for (foo) { [16:23] diddledan: the correct way ;) [16:24] This is of course the right way to do it [16:24] function bar(wibble) { [16:24] I prefer to have them aligned with the closing brace :) [16:24] ew [16:24] EXTRA LINE [16:24] Feels like a tooth dangling on a string of gum [16:24] I have two problems with that. 1) extra line, 2) the definition isn't part of the code block [16:24] that's why you just use sloccount instead of reading my spacey mess [16:25] shauno: I bet you like python, too [16:25] I like Python [16:25] it also folds very tidily in editors that do folding [16:25] I hate python almost as much as it hates me [16:25] I actually quite like it's "indenting is a block" thing [16:25] I find that counter intuitive [16:25] But not so fond of the PEP that states that four-spaces is the default Python indent [16:26] I'm all for properly formatting code, but enforcing it by breaking when you don't seems wrong to me [16:26] diddledan, If you think that blocks should be indented properly for readability, it's not such a stretch to welcome your language making that compulsory [16:26] I would like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony; http://www.pythonb.org [16:27] I mean, this is a horrible thing in Java [16:27] if (test) [16:27] doStuff(); [16:27] doMoreStuff(); [16:27] yes I agree that is semantically wrong [16:28] ok, maybe I could be convinced [16:28] So you 'd probably argue that braceless blocks in Java are evil [16:28] Which is my opinion [16:28] awilkins: I quite like four spaces. [16:28] jpds, Afraid I'm a tabs man [16:28] I still get a knot in my stomach when js decides the terminating; is overrated [16:28] jpds, tabs for indents, spaces for aligns [16:29] ok, let me put the cat among the pigeons now. tcl, discuss [16:29] jpds, Accomodates both the wingnuts who like their editor to define indent width and the wingnuts who like everything to align (mid-line alignment is also evil though) [16:29] OT: I love when american shows subtitle the brit [16:30] (or british shows subtitle the geordie) [16:30] wyaye [16:31] that's the extent of my knowledge of northern behaviour [16:31] scurge of civilisation as we know it [16:31] * awilkins is close to the Pie Event Horizon [16:32] that's scourge. silly uneducated southerners. [16:34] shauno: I always append ; on js even though you don't have to [16:34] Feel better :) [16:34] I have to. it's always the first thing I check when something doesn't work. and when I 'write' js, there's always something broke [16:35] hah same here, I normally pass js stuff to a colleague has he gets it correct first time everytime, I don't! [16:36] nodejs is fun [16:38] I like how nodejs has an ecosystem of reusable modules available from npm [16:39] all you need to do is npm install a new module and it's ready to go [16:39] you can script a deployment as well that way with a package.json file which details all the dependencies which then get omitted from the scm [16:42] I've never looked at node at all [16:43] I've never felt the need to; I've been quite comfortable that one will blow over soon enough [16:45] one? [16:46] nodejs [16:46] it's just waiting until we're done burying RoR, then its next :) [16:49] if in doubt, delete all the preferences [16:49] * dwatkins goes home [16:52] good evening [16:52] :D [17:02] afternoon all [17:02] ey [17:02] blarp [17:02]