| greg-g | cmaloney: in your blog you're referring to https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/web-timer/ggnjbdfgigejghknieofeahaknkjafim ? | 00:05 |
|---|---|---|
| * greg-g assumes so | 00:08 | |
| * greg-g can't find a surrogate for Fx | 00:09 | |
| cmaloney | greg-g: yeah, i think that's the one | 02:40 |
| _stink_ | jayis: NO | 03:59 |
| jayis | AH | 04:02 |
| mrgoodcat | morning all | 14:18 |
| brousch | morning one | 14:18 |
| rick_h__ | party | 14:18 |
| rick_h__ | tgif | 14:19 |
| mrgoodcat | friday++ | 14:20 |
| brousch | Civic Hackathon for Code Across America tonight | 14:21 |
| brousch | and tomorrow | 14:21 |
| jrwren | sounds too much like hands across america and I don't think webster is going to be there. | 14:39 |
| brousch | This wind is nuts today | 14:41 |
| brousch | 32F feels like 17F 45mph winds | 14:59 |
| JonEdney | Yeah, that wind is brutal, but I will take it after the last 2 months. | 15:05 |
| JonEdney | Oh, and good morning. | 15:05 |
| brousch | I'd prefer 20F and calm | 15:08 |
| rick_h__ | heh, polar vortex coming, how about -20? | 15:08 |
| rick_h__ | that's close right? | 15:08 |
| brousch | That's too cold | 15:11 |
| brousch | 20F feels nice now. I was on the roof 2 days ago in a tshirt shoveling and breaking ice dams | 15:12 |
| jrwren | RED ALERT! Old World Python Class Sighted! | 15:44 |
| rick_h__ | ruh roh...run for the hills! | 15:44 |
| jrwren | i lolled for a good 10 seconds. | 15:48 |
| cmaloney | good morning | 15:59 |
| mrgoodcat | I just love that they call it a polar vortex. Sounds like some star wars shit | 16:01 |
| brousch | looks like it right now | 16:02 |
| cmaloney | mrgoodcat: To me it sounds like a Canadian Secret Weapon | 16:02 |
| cmaloney | Reagan had his Star Wars Program, but Canada has unleashed the Polar Vortex | 16:02 |
| rick_h__ | jrwren: they should flip it. Want an old object? you need to do class MyUser(oldobject) | 16:16 |
| rick_h__ | :) | 16:16 |
| jrwren | rick_h__: ha! that would be an interesting python 2.8 hack ;p | 16:34 |
| cmaloney | rick_h__: I like the way you think. :) | 16:35 |
| jrwren | poll: open() or file() in python and why. | 17:09 |
| rick_h__ | with open() as fh: | 17:11 |
| rick_h__ | because that's just what I've known/used. | 17:11 |
| jrwren | i'm pretty sure the file class has enter/exit, but I like your because the best. | 17:11 |
| rick_h__ | yea, i mean if you go to file stuff in the docs it's all open | 17:12 |
| rick_h__ | http://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/inputoutput.html | 17:12 |
| rick_h__ | I'm trying to find file() to compare api/args and such | 17:12 |
| rick_h__ | http://docs.python.org/2/library/functions.html?highlight=file#file | 17:13 |
| rick_h__ | When opening a file, it’s preferable to use open() instead of invoking this constructor directly. file is more suited to type testing (for example, writing isinstance(f, file)). | 17:14 |
| rick_h__ | I wouldn't expect a class constructor to be a context manager as well, but maybe it is. | 17:14 |
| rick_h__ | yea, don't see it in the api docs for File objects | 17:15 |
| rick_h__ | so context mgr ftw | 17:15 |
| jrwren | rick_h__: YES! thankyou. | 17:18 |
| rick_h__ | thanks for bringing it up. Never really thought about it | 17:20 |
| mrgoodcat | for someone with experience in multiple programming languages what would you suggest as a good resource to learn idiomatic python? I'm not so much worried about the syntax because that shouldn't be difficult, but more about the "python way" of solving any particular problem. | 18:29 |
| brousch | mrgoodcat: Sit behind rick_h__ and watch him work | 18:30 |
| mrgoodcat | haha | 18:30 |
| mrgoodcat | failing that, are there any books you might suggest? | 18:30 |
| mrgoodcat | i have a few, but don't know which to start with | 18:30 |
| rick_h__ | there's a few 'python way' books. The best thing is to look at code from devs you respect, check out pyohio this summer, etc | 18:31 |
| rick_h__ | ask someone to review the code | 18:31 |
| brousch | Follow PEP8 | 18:32 |
| rick_h__ | yea, pep8 and pylint your stuff | 18:32 |
| mrgoodcat | does pylint check for errors or style? | 18:33 |
| rick_h__ | well, sanity check vs style. | 18:33 |
| rick_h__ | usused variables, imports, proper use of exceptions, etc | 18:34 |
| mrgoodcat | got it | 18:34 |
| rick_h__ | If I can open it without my editor yelling at me you're on the right track :) | 18:34 |
| mrgoodcat | i was going to do clojure but i recently did haskell and i've been told by too many people that i have to try python | 18:35 |
| rick_h__ | clojure is worth looking at as well | 18:35 |
| rick_h__ | as someone that does python | 18:35 |
| mrgoodcat | which would you suggest first? assuming i'll do both eventually (which i likely will) | 18:37 |
| rick_h__ | if you do ruby already I think clojue will be more enlightning | 18:38 |
| rick_h__ | python is ruby done right, so if you're looking at doing more of what you do but with cleaner tools then go python :) | 18:38 |
| mrgoodcat | enlightening in what way? because of the functional aspect of it? | 18:38 |
| rick_h__ | yea, it's different. It'll open your mind some more | 18:38 |
| mrgoodcat | i've done functional before | 18:39 |
| rick_h__ | there are tools you learn because you want a better tool and tools you learn that expand how you think | 18:39 |
| mrgoodcat | I happen to really like haskell | 18:39 |
| rick_h__ | clojure, for me at least is more about expanding how I think. | 18:39 |
| mrgoodcat | does clojure offer any real advantage over haskell? | 18:39 |
| rick_h__ | ask waf he tinkers with them more | 18:39 |
| rick_h__ | I think clojure is more real-world usable than haskell | 18:40 |
| jrwren | and pyflakes. | 18:41 |
| jrwren | I've found just having a pyflakes vim plugin helps me be pythonic a bunch. | 18:41 |
| rick_h__ | jrwren: yea, I used flake8 which is that + pep8 | 18:42 |
| jrwren | yes, that. | 18:42 |
| jrwren | I think I used that too | 18:42 |
| jrwren | I know I have both. | 18:42 |
| rick_h__ | there's a new one that's more maintained | 18:42 |
| rick_h__ | right | 18:42 |
| jrwren | pep-0463 looks crazy | 18:43 |
| brousch | This looks interesting http://stephensugden.com/crash_into_python/ | 18:45 |
| jrwren | 3.5 is getting 0463 | 18:45 |
| rick_h__ | jrwren: yea, that is. One side of my brain goes "oooh cool that reads nice" | 18:45 |
| jrwren | x=[] | 18:45 |
| rick_h__ | and the other side goes "wtf" | 18:45 |
| jrwren | x[0] except IndexError: None | 18:46 |
| rick_h__ | expr or else default if Exception | 18:46 |
| rick_h__ | ? | 18:46 |
| jrwren | it will be nice for some things which are too verbose right now | 18:46 |
| rick_h__ | yea | 18:46 |
| rick_h__ | some of those are hard to read at intent though | 18:46 |
| * rick_h__ will have to look for some personal use cases of it | 18:47 | |
| jrwren | interesting that bare except is not allowed. | 18:48 |
| jrwren | you have to except BaseException: | 18:49 |
| jrwren | hehe | 18:49 |
| jrwren | ON ERROR RESUME NEXT | 18:49 |
| jrwren | i'm going to write a script which adds " except BaseException: pass" to every statement in my python file | 18:49 |
| mrgoodcat | functional programming just seems fundamentally broken to me when there needs to be user interaction. maybe i just don't understand it well enough | 18:50 |
| mrgoodcat | it seems to me that programs that depend on user interaction depend on mutable state | 18:51 |
| mrgoodcat | it seems sometimes too theoretical. difficult to apply to real world problems | 18:52 |
| mrgoodcat | great for things like project euler though | 18:52 |
| jrwren | mrgoodcat: functional and immutability are orthoginal. | 18:52 |
| jrwren | don't let the uneducated functionistas tell you otherwise. | 18:52 |
| rick_h__ | hey, not saying otherwise | 18:52 |
| jrwren | functional might make it easier to embrace immutability - easier being subjective and up to you. | 18:53 |
| rick_h__ | functional can be a lot about design/layout/communication contracts | 18:53 |
| jrwren | that said, I find nothing challenging about user interaction and functional constructs. | 18:53 |
| mrgoodcat | by orthogonal you mean...? | 18:53 |
| jrwren | mrgoodcat: exactly perpendicular | 18:53 |
| jrwren | i mean one does not have to do with the other. they are not parallels | 18:54 |
| rick_h__ | you can implement your code in terms of functional design just fine without getting into immutibility | 18:54 |
| jrwren | rick_h__: exactly | 18:54 |
| rick_h__ | we're working to make our large JS app more functional in structure and api design, but not dealing or worrying about immutible datatypes/etc. | 18:55 |
| jrwren | server side JS app? | 18:58 |
| jrwren | or browser side? | 18:58 |
| rick_h__ | browser, juju gui | 18:59 |
| jrwren | browser side you are typically more concerned with not shadowing the DOM too much | 18:59 |
| mrgoodcat | i'd just like to reiterate how much I hate php | 20:32 |
| mrgoodcat | and specifically, wordpress plugins | 20:32 |
| cmaloney | mrgoodcat: I'd also check out the "Writing Idiomatic Python" book | 20:51 |
| cmaloney | It's a little spartan but should give you some good pointers on what is idiomatic with Python | 20:51 |
| greg-g | curious what it looks like to be the one to press the "push all the code" at Wikimedia? https://asciinema.org/a/7798 | 22:42 |
| rick_h__ | macbook pro 01? | 22:43 |
| greg-g | not me | 22:45 |
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