[00:05] <greg-g> cmaloney: in your blog you're referring to https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/web-timer/ggnjbdfgigejghknieofeahaknkjafim ?
[00:08]  * greg-g assumes so
[00:09]  * greg-g can't find a surrogate for Fx
[02:40] <cmaloney> greg-g: yeah, i think that's the one
[03:59] <_stink_> jayis: NO
[04:02] <jayis> AH
[14:18] <mrgoodcat> morning all
[14:18] <brousch> morning one
[14:18] <rick_h__> party
[14:19] <rick_h__> tgif
[14:20] <mrgoodcat> friday++
[14:21] <brousch> Civic Hackathon for Code Across America tonight
[14:21] <brousch> and tomorrow
[14:39] <jrwren> sounds too much like hands across america and I don't think webster is going to be there.
[14:41] <brousch> This wind is nuts today
[14:59] <brousch> 32F feels like 17F 45mph winds
[15:05] <JonEdney> Yeah, that wind is brutal, but I will take it after the last 2 months.
[15:05] <JonEdney> Oh, and good morning.
[15:08] <brousch> I'd prefer 20F and calm
[15:08] <rick_h__> heh, polar vortex coming, how about -20?
[15:08] <rick_h__> that's close right?
[15:11] <brousch> That's too cold
[15:12] <brousch> 20F feels nice now. I was on the roof 2 days ago in a tshirt shoveling and breaking ice dams
[15:44] <jrwren> RED ALERT!  Old World Python Class Sighted!
[15:44] <rick_h__> ruh roh...run for the hills!
[15:48] <jrwren> i lolled for a good 10 seconds.
[15:59] <cmaloney> good morning
[16:01] <mrgoodcat> I just love that they call it a polar vortex. Sounds like some star wars shit
[16:02] <brousch> looks like it right now
[16:02] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: To me it sounds like a Canadian Secret Weapon
[16:02] <cmaloney> Reagan had his Star Wars Program, but Canada has unleashed the Polar Vortex
[16:16] <rick_h__> jrwren: they should flip it. Want an old object? you need to do class MyUser(oldobject)
[16:16] <rick_h__> :)
[16:34] <jrwren> rick_h__: ha! that would be an interesting python 2.8 hack ;p
[16:35] <cmaloney> rick_h__: I like the way you think. :)
[17:09] <jrwren> poll: open() or file() in python and why.
[17:11] <rick_h__> with open() as fh:
[17:11] <rick_h__> because that's just what I've known/used.
[17:11] <jrwren> i'm pretty sure the file class has enter/exit, but I like your because the best.
[17:12] <rick_h__> yea, i mean if you go to file stuff in the docs it's all open
[17:12] <rick_h__> http://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/inputoutput.html
[17:12] <rick_h__> I'm trying to find file() to compare api/args and such
[17:13] <rick_h__> http://docs.python.org/2/library/functions.html?highlight=file#file
[17:14] <rick_h__> When opening a file, it’s preferable to use open() instead of invoking this constructor directly. file is more suited to type testing (for example, writing isinstance(f, file)).
[17:14] <rick_h__> I wouldn't expect a class constructor to be a context manager as well, but maybe it is.
[17:15] <rick_h__> yea, don't see it in the api docs for File objects
[17:15] <rick_h__> so context mgr ftw
[17:18] <jrwren> rick_h__: YES! thankyou.
[17:20] <rick_h__> thanks for bringing it up. Never really thought about it
[18:29] <mrgoodcat> for someone with experience in multiple programming languages what would you suggest as a good resource to learn idiomatic python? I'm not so much worried about the syntax because that shouldn't be difficult, but more about the "python way" of solving any particular problem.
[18:30] <brousch> mrgoodcat: Sit behind rick_h__ and watch him work
[18:30] <mrgoodcat> haha
[18:30] <mrgoodcat> failing that, are there any books you might suggest?
[18:30] <mrgoodcat> i have a few, but don't know which to start with
[18:31] <rick_h__> there's a few 'python way' books. The best thing is to look at code from devs you respect, check out pyohio this summer, etc
[18:31] <rick_h__> ask someone to review the code
[18:32] <brousch> Follow PEP8
[18:32] <rick_h__> yea, pep8 and pylint your stuff
[18:33] <mrgoodcat> does pylint check for errors or style?
[18:33] <rick_h__> well, sanity check vs style.
[18:34] <rick_h__> usused variables, imports, proper use of exceptions, etc
[18:34] <mrgoodcat> got it
[18:34] <rick_h__> If I can open it without my editor yelling at me you're on the right track :)
[18:35] <mrgoodcat> i was going to do clojure but i recently did haskell and i've been told by too many people that i have to try python
[18:35] <rick_h__> clojure is worth looking at as well
[18:35] <rick_h__> as someone that does python
[18:37] <mrgoodcat> which would you suggest first? assuming i'll do both eventually (which i likely will)
[18:38] <rick_h__> if you do ruby already I think clojue will be more enlightning
[18:38] <rick_h__> python is ruby done right, so if you're looking at doing more of what you do but with cleaner tools then go python :)
[18:38] <mrgoodcat> enlightening in what way? because of the functional aspect of it?
[18:38] <rick_h__> yea, it's different. It'll open your mind some more
[18:39] <mrgoodcat> i've done functional before
[18:39] <rick_h__> there are tools you learn because you want a better tool and tools you learn that expand how you think
[18:39] <mrgoodcat> I happen to really like haskell
[18:39] <rick_h__> clojure, for me at least is more about expanding how I think.
[18:39] <mrgoodcat> does clojure offer any real advantage over haskell?
[18:39] <rick_h__> ask waf he tinkers with them more
[18:40] <rick_h__> I think clojure is more real-world usable than haskell
[18:41] <jrwren> and pyflakes.
[18:41] <jrwren> I've found just having a pyflakes vim plugin helps me be pythonic a bunch.
[18:42] <rick_h__> jrwren: yea, I used flake8 which is that + pep8
[18:42] <jrwren> yes, that.
[18:42] <jrwren> I think I used that too
[18:42] <jrwren> I know I have both.
[18:42] <rick_h__> there's a new one that's more maintained
[18:42] <rick_h__> right
[18:43] <jrwren> pep-0463 looks crazy
[18:45] <brousch> This looks interesting http://stephensugden.com/crash_into_python/
[18:45] <jrwren> 3.5 is getting 0463
[18:45] <rick_h__> jrwren: yea, that is. One side of my brain goes "oooh cool that reads nice"
[18:45] <jrwren> x=[]
[18:45] <rick_h__> and the other side goes "wtf"
[18:46] <jrwren> x[0] except IndexError: None
[18:46] <rick_h__> expr or else default if Exception
[18:46] <rick_h__> ?
[18:46] <jrwren> it will be nice for some things which are too verbose right now
[18:46] <rick_h__> yea
[18:46] <rick_h__> some of those are hard to read at intent though
[18:47]  * rick_h__ will have to look for some personal use cases of it
[18:48] <jrwren> interesting that bare except is not allowed.
[18:49] <jrwren> you have to except BaseException:
[18:49] <jrwren> hehe
[18:49] <jrwren> ON ERROR RESUME NEXT
[18:49] <jrwren> i'm going to write a script which adds " except BaseException: pass" to every statement in my python file
[18:50] <mrgoodcat> functional programming just seems fundamentally broken to me when there needs to be user interaction. maybe i just don't understand it well enough
[18:51] <mrgoodcat> it seems to me that programs that depend on user interaction depend on mutable state
[18:52] <mrgoodcat> it seems sometimes too theoretical. difficult to apply to real world problems
[18:52] <mrgoodcat> great for things like project euler though
[18:52] <jrwren> mrgoodcat: functional and immutability are orthoginal.
[18:52] <jrwren> don't let the uneducated functionistas tell you otherwise.
[18:52] <rick_h__> hey, not saying otherwise
[18:53] <jrwren> functional might make it easier to embrace immutability - easier being subjective and up to you.
[18:53] <rick_h__> functional can be a lot about design/layout/communication contracts
[18:53] <jrwren> that said, I find nothing challenging about user interaction and functional constructs.
[18:53] <mrgoodcat> by orthogonal you mean...?
[18:53] <jrwren> mrgoodcat: exactly perpendicular
[18:54] <jrwren> i mean one does not have to do with the other. they are not parallels
[18:54] <rick_h__> you can implement your code in terms of functional design just fine without getting into immutibility
[18:54] <jrwren> rick_h__: exactly
[18:55] <rick_h__> we're working to make our large JS app more functional in structure and api design, but not dealing or worrying about immutible datatypes/etc.
[18:58] <jrwren> server side JS app?
[18:58] <jrwren> or browser side?
[18:59] <rick_h__> browser, juju gui
[18:59] <jrwren> browser side you are typically more concerned with not shadowing the DOM too much
[20:32] <mrgoodcat> i'd just like to reiterate how much I hate php
[20:32] <mrgoodcat> and specifically, wordpress plugins
[20:51] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I'd also check out the "Writing Idiomatic Python" book
[20:51] <cmaloney> It's a little spartan but should give you some good pointers on what is idiomatic with Python
[22:42] <greg-g> curious what it looks like to be the one to press the "push all the code" at Wikimedia? https://asciinema.org/a/7798
[22:43] <rick_h__> macbook pro 01?
[22:45] <greg-g> not me